Judas Iscariot and ONE demon

julio
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Judas Iscariot and ONE demon

 

Jesus expelled two thousand demons from the two gadarenes (Mark 5:13) [killing a herd of swine, a crime he never paid for!], but could not expel ONE from Judas Iscariot!!! (Luke 22:3, John 13:2). How do we resolve this quadratic equation?!…    

 

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Quote:How do we resolve this

Quote:

How do we resolve this quadratic equation?!…   

 

X=(-b +/- SQRT(b2-4ac))/2a

 

 


julio
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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Quote:

How do we resolve this quadratic equation?!…   

 

X=(-b +/- SQRT(b2-4ac))/2a

 

 

 

A quadratic equation is always equal to ZERO; exactly like any christ’s good deeds you would care to mention.

 

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julio wrote: Jesus expelled

julio wrote:

 

Jesus expelled two thousand demons from the two gadarenes (Mark 5:13) [killing a herd of swine, a crime he never paid for!], but could not expel ONE from Judas Iscariot!!! (Luke 22:3, John 13:2). How do we resolve this quadratic equation?!…    

 

He needed that demon to set up the scam?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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julio
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jcgadfly wrote:julio

jcgadfly wrote:

julio wrote:

 

Jesus expelled two thousand demons from the two gadarenes (Mark 5:13) [killing a herd of swine, a crime he never paid for!], but could not expel ONE from Judas Iscariot!!! (Luke 22:3, John 13:2). How do we resolve this quadratic equation?!…    

 

He needed that demon to set up the scam?

You’re right. Jesus needed a betrayer to deepen the plot: his best friend! All plotted in ultra secrecy. The trouble is that he promised to come back this time to discharge nuclear weapons at Armageddon!!Who is going to betray him then?!…

 

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A related question would be

A related question would be just what the Israelites were doing with herds of swine in the first place.  They have no actual use for them after all...

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

A related question would be just what the Israelites were doing with herds of swine in the first place.  They have no actual use for them after all...

The Gadarenes weren't Hebrews, if I recall, so they had no problems with the other white meat.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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 Those swine farms produced

 

Those swine farms produced bacon for the roman army. There were several of them scattered around Palestine. All subjective conjecture, you understand.  

 

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zarathustra
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If jesus had expelled the

If jesus had expelled the demon, then Judas wouldn't have betrayed him, which means god wouldn't have gotten a sacrifice (of himself) for our sins, which means we would all have to go to hell, where we're going anyway since we don't actually believe any of this.

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zarathustra wrote:If jesus

zarathustra wrote:

If jesus had expelled the demon, then Judas wouldn't have betrayed him, which means god wouldn't have gotten a sacrifice (of himself) for our sins, which means we would all have to go to hell, where we're going anyway since we don't actually believe any of this.

Sometimes I wonder if Judas Iscariot was written into the Gospels like Don John in Much Ado About Nothing. No reason save the Gospel writers/Shakespeare needed a villain.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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julio wrote: Jesus expelled

julio wrote:
 

Jesus expelled two thousand demons from the two gadarenes (Mark 5:13) [killing a herd of swine, a crime he never paid for!], but could not expel ONE from Judas Iscariot!!! (Luke 22:3, John 13:2). How do we resolve this quadratic equation?!…    

The Bible doesn't say that Jesus could not have driven Satan from Judas or that He wanted to do so.

jcgadfly wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if Judas Iscariot was written into the Gospels like Don John in Much Ado About Nothing. No reason save the Gospel writers/Shakespeare needed a villain.

Let's see.  Caiaphas, Annas, the other Sadduces, the Pharisees, Pilate, the Jewish people (who kept trying to kill Jesus, thus driving him into hiding), Satan, and Judas and that's all just within the Gospels.  The New Testament doesn't seem to lack villains.

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RespectfulButBelieving

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
Let's see.  Caiaphas, Annas, the other Sadduces, the Pharisees, Pilate, the Jewish people (who kept trying to kill Jesus, thus driving him into hiding)

Wait, what? The Jewish people? Let's roll that back for just a second. Was Jesus not preaching to Jewish people?

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The Jews

HisWillness wrote:
Wait, what? The Jewish people? Let's roll that back for just a second. Was Jesus not preaching to Jewish people?
OK, first off, I do not want this thread to devolve into a little corner of anti-Semitism.  I need to say right upfront that I have no problem with Jews, I have friends and colleagues who are Jews, I have four grandparents and two parents whom I loved who were Jews, I have brothers and sisters and in-laws and cousins and neices and nephews whom I love who are Jews.  Because of my heritage, many would consider me a Jew, though I consider myself a Christian only, after Galatians 3:28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus, which also happens to be a fine Biblical text demanding that Christians not persecute Jews.

I don't support bigotry against Jews, I believe they should be left alone to practice their religion as they see fit, without discrimination of any kind, and, whatever problems Jesus had with Jews he had with some Jews who lived two millenia ago, not with all Jews and not with any Jews living today.  So if anyone is offended by my beliefs, they come from the Bible not from my mind, and if anyone wants to use this as ammunition for some attack on the Jews, I think you've seriously misread the Bible and need some psychological help to boot. 

To the extent that I said the Jews were Jesus's enemies, I want to withdraw that statement now and apologize.  Many Jews were Jesus's enemies, but not all.

Now, here's why I say that many Jews were enemies of Jesus:

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.  Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.  John 5:16

After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.  John 7:1

So, some Jews persecuted Jesus to such an extent that they drove him underground for fear of being killed.  Those Jews were His enemies.

The other problem is that many Jews, like Cretans, back in New Testament times were liars:

For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.  This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.  Titus 1:10-11

To answer your question, yes, Jesus preached exclusively to the Jews.  They didn't all listen.

Now, if anybody has a problem with the Biblical treatment of the Jews, I'd like you to consider that the Jewish Talmud has the Sanhedrin hanging Jesus for heresy and Jesus being kept in a vat of boiling excrement for eternity, so maybe there's room on both sides for some interfaith dialogue.   And for the rationalists out there, I'm pretty sure you agree with the Apostle Paul that we shouldn't give heed to Jewish fables, don't you?

Oh, I forgot Herod.  He killed all of the male babies in his kingdom to try to kill Jesus.  That makes him a villain, too.

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RespectfulButBelieving

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

julio wrote:
 

Jesus expelled two thousand demons from the two gadarenes (Mark 5:13) [killing a herd of swine, a crime he never paid for!], but could not expel ONE from Judas Iscariot!!! (Luke 22:3, John 13:2). How do we resolve this quadratic equation?!…    

The Bible doesn't say that Jesus could not have driven Satan from Judas or that He wanted to do so.

jcgadfly wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if Judas Iscariot was written into the Gospels like Don John in Much Ado About Nothing. No reason save the Gospel writers/Shakespeare needed a villain.

Let's see.  Caiaphas, Annas, the other Sadduces, the Pharisees, Pilate, the Jewish people (who kept trying to kill Jesus, thus driving him into hiding), Satan, and Judas and that's all just within the Gospels.  The New Testament doesn't seem to lack villains.

 

1. So you agree that Jesus needed that demon in Judas to make the scheme work?

2. Agreed, but those others weren't part of Jesus' coterie. Judas' actions allowed the other villains to get into the game.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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The consensus here is that

The consensus here is that we could with pride say that the demon that took Judas for a ride is part of the salvation plan. No demon, no salvation, as it were. Am I wrong?

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don judas

jcgadfly wrote:
1. So you agree that Jesus needed that demon in Judas to make the scheme work?
I'm sure Jesus would have found a way had Satan/Judas not complied, but don't you think there's a delicious irony in Jesus using Satan to perform an act that would result in the salvation of hundreds of millions, maybe even billions?

Quote:
2. Agreed, but those others weren't part of Jesus' coterie. Judas' actions allowed the other villains to get into the game.
I wouldn't say that Don John was part of Claudio's coterie, would you?  As for Judas, by leading the Romans to Gethsemene, he saved the bloodshed that would have occurred had Jesus been arrested amidst the multitude of his followers.

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RespectfulButBelieving

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:
1. So you agree that Jesus needed that demon in Judas to make the scheme work?
I'm sure Jesus would have found a way had Satan/Judas not complied, but don't you think there's a delicious irony in Jesus using Satan to perform an act that would result in the salvation of hundreds of millions, maybe even billions

Jesus would have found a way to get himself killed if Satan/Judas hadn't done the honors?  

RespectfulButBelieving wrote:
Quote:
2. Agreed, but those others weren't part of Jesus' coterie. Judas' actions allowed the other villains to get into the game.
I wouldn't say that Don John was part of Claudio's coterie, would you?  As for Judas, by leading the Romans to Gethsemene, he saved the bloodshed that would have occurred had Jesus been arrested amidst the multitude of his followers.

So was Judas' betrayal a righteous act in that it minimized bloodshed?  Or ought we to factor in the bloodshed visited by christians upon jews in reprisal for killing their god?

 

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I'm pretty sure Jesus

I'm pretty sure Jesus already knew about Judas trying to betray him, according to the Bible...
Then there's the Gospel of Judas which was written as early as the second century, which says Judas was a good person who knew Jesus had to die, in stead of the other disciple's ignorance.
Isn't the betrayal brought in from another cult or something? It would explain why Jesus is both gullible and omniscient...


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julio wrote: Jesus expelled

julio wrote:

 

Jesus expelled two thousand demons from the two gadarenes (Mark 5:13) [killing a herd of swine, a crime he never paid for!], but could not expel ONE from Judas Iscariot!!! (Luke 22:3, John 13:2). How do we resolve this quadratic equation?!…    

 

Move the goal posts and make shit up. When that doesn't work repeat and repeat and repeat.

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