Jesus will throw Satin into the lake of fire. [YOU RESPOND]

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Jesus will throw Satin into the lake of fire. [YOU RESPOND]

Ashleigh sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

My name is ashleigh and I go to clovis Christian School.I am in the 8th
grade. And well, God really does exist. He lives in heaven with his son,
Jesus Christ, my Savior. God sent Jesus to earth to die for each and every
one of our sins. He sent his one and only son to die for us. My God is a
very loving and merciful god. If you believe that Jesus died for our sins
and accept him as your Savior, you too can become saved. If you are saved
you will go to heaven. U cant get into heaven any other way. If you dont go
to heaven, then there is only one other place to go, hell. Hell does exist.
Its where satin lives.
   One day Jesus will come back and he will take all the Christains. Then
god will destroy the earth. He will throw Satin into the lake of fire,
along with all the non believers. I think that this day is coming pretty
soon. And I dont want any of u to go to hell. U probly wont even read this
but i will pray for all of u, even though i dont know u. I hope u have a
change in heart and relize that God and Jesus exist. Being a Christian
doesnt mean that your life is going to be great or that we are better than
anyone.
     I am a proud Christian and i love the LORD. I hope all of u have a
blessed day!
                 Love your sister in Christ,
                          Ashleigh

 

(let the satin jokes begin)

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I kinda feel bad for

I kinda feel bad for Ashleigh... Only in 8th grade, she's probably been indoctrinated with this crap her whole life.  At least she doesn't want us to go to hell - that's a lot nicer that many of other letters. 

Ashleigh, I don't want you to spend your whole life in fear of your invisible friend.  I hope you spend some time checking out the site after you wrote this letter.


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Is satin fire

Is satin fire retardant?

Seems like such a waste to throw material away like that. I mean I don't like the feel of wool, but I wouldn't deny someone else wearing it.

Are chris-stains hard to get out of satin?

There's a marketing approach here. "Buy more satin; jesus freaks want to burn it."

At once, tell mom and dad you want to go to a school that doesn't have 'christian' in the name.

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Ashleigh wrote:My name is

Ashleigh wrote:

My name is ashleigh and I go to clovis Christian School.I am in the 8th
grade. And well, God really does exist. He lives in heaven with his son,
Jesus Christ, my Savior. God sent Jesus to earth to die for each and every
one of our sins. He sent his one and only son to die for us. My God is a
very loving and merciful god. If you believe that Jesus died for our sins
and accept him as your Savior, you too can become saved. If you are saved
you will go to heaven. U cant get into heaven any other way. If you dont go
to heaven, then there is only one other place to go, hell. Hell does exist.
Its where satin lives.
   One day Jesus will come back and he will take all the Christains. Then
god will destroy the earth. He will throw Satin into the lake of fire,
along with all the non believers. I think that this day is coming pretty
soon. And I dont want any of u to go to hell. U probly wont even read this
but i will pray for all of u, even though i dont know u. I hope u have a
change in heart and relize that God and Jesus exist. Being a Christian
doesnt mean that your life is going to be great or that we are better than
anyone.
     I am a proud Christian and i love the LORD. I hope all of u have a
blessed day!
                 Love your sister in Christ,
                          Ashleigh

God can have my satin sheets and pajamas when he pries them from my cold dead fingers!!!!!

But seriously: Sweetie, one day I hope you get the chance to really examine these beliefs of yours. Right now it wouldn't be fair to expect you to go beyond your instinct for taking what your parents and other adults you consider authoritative say as unquestioned truth, but as you grow it's a good idea to question it all as it brings deeper understanding. Here's hoping for you!

 

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

My name is ashleigh and I go to clovis Christian School.I am in the 8th
grade. And well, God really does exist. 

Is that what you learn in 8th grade?  I knew I should've stayed in school!

RationalResponseSquad wrote:
He lives in heaven...

No wonder he's not listed in the phone book.

RationalResponseSquad wrote:
My God is a very loving and merciful god.

Yeah, well my friend said her god is even more loving and merciful -- and she's in the 9th grade!

RationalResponseSquad wrote:
Its where satin lives.

I'm glad clovis Christian School endorses the alternate spelling of "satan".  As I've always said, "teach the controversy!"

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

   One day Jesus will come back and he will take all the Christains.

Please do so.  We don't want them.

RationalResponseSquad wrote:
Then god will destroy the earth. He will throw Satin into the lake of fire, along with all the non believers. I think that this day is coming pretty soon. 

That's not a good enough excuse.  Go finish your homework!

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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darth_josh wrote:Is satin

darth_josh wrote:

Is satin fire retardant?

Seems like such a waste to throw material away like that. I mean I don't like the feel of wool, but I wouldn't deny someone else wearing it.

Are chris-stains hard to get out of satin?

Too easy, you were given such an easy set up. 

 

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 Quote:Too easy, you were

 

Quote:
Too easy, you were given such an easy set up.

Then again, people pay money to see home run derbies...

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Yeah.I guess I'm with

Yeah.

I guess I'm with Shelley. I feel sad for the 'christains' that reject satin.

 

Poor pitiful christians never get to know the feeling of satin in their lives. There's nothing like laying down with satin in a nice big bed. If they only knew what satin was like then they might not want it thrown into a lake of fire.

If they knew satin like I knew satin then they would want satin wrapped around their most beloved with candles burning and roses strewn about the room.

Satin is so special. It's that comfort in the dark next to you that you can raise in the middle of the night to reveal the joy of life.

I think everyone could enjoy satin in their lives.

I like to see satin on the floor at the foot of my bed too. It makes me all warm and fuzzy to know that my reward awaits.

Hail satin. Satin has power over me because I do whatever the wearer of satin tells me to do.

I was walking on a beach once and the sand was hot. I looked and LO AND BEHOLD there was satin so I made a pair of moccassins.

I cradle satin every night in my bed. Satin gives me comfort from its fluffiness and smooth touch.

If you reject satin then you will never know comfort for all eternity. Endless scratchy torture is the wages of rejecting satin.

You're just close-minded to the power of satin. If you were truly open-minded then satin would be the answer to all of your problems.

The people who deny satin need to know that satin still loves you no matter what.

 

 

Where are this kid's parents? Eighth-grader responding to a message board without mom and/or dad looking. What the....?

Am I too overprotective or are this kid's parents just that bad?

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Quote:My name is ashleigh

Quote:
My name is ashleigh and I go to clovis Christian School.I am in the 8th
grade. And well, God really does exist. He lives in heaven with his son,
Jesus Christ, my Savior. God sent Jesus to earth to die for each and every
one of our sins. He sent his one and only son to die for us. My God is a
very loving and merciful god. If you believe that Jesus died for our sins
and accept him as your Savior, you too can become saved. If you are saved
you will go to heaven. U cant get into heaven any other way. If you dont go
to heaven, then there is only one other place to go, hell. Hell does exist.
Its where satin lives.
   One day Jesus will come back and he will take all the Christains. Then
god will destroy the earth. He will throw Satin into the lake of fire,
along with all the non believers. I think that this day is coming pretty
soon. And I dont want any of u to go to hell. U probly wont even read this
but i will pray for all of u, even though i dont know u. I hope u have a
change in heart and relize that God and Jesus exist. Being a Christian
doesnt mean that your life is going to be great or that we are better than
anyone.
     I am a proud Christian and i love the LORD. I hope all of u have a
blessed day!
                 Love your sister in Christ,
                          Ashleigh

Really? 'U's only chance at getting into heaven is if I'm saved by Jesus?

Aw, man. This is a real burden you've put on my shoulders.

 

I mean, how do I even know what U wants? Maybe it's unimaginably chilly near the end of the Roman alphabet, and Hell would be a nice change of pace. Maybe it's the one vowel that's particularly scared of heights.

As you said, it's unlikely that U will even read this (it's a hard letter to get in contact with; being a vowel is busy business), so we can't exactly hold our collective breath waiting for it to answer for itself. In the interim, though, I think I'll keep my options open and not get saved by Jesus until I get a definite go-ahead.

Y'know. Just in case.

 

Sticking out tongue

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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God is just jealous!

I feel very sad for you, having to live your life without satin.  God only hates satin because he is jealous of all the warmth and happiness satin can bring. Someday you may discover satin for yourself, and then you well see that it is the only true path to happiness.  


Seriously, I hope that someday you discover the truth about your religion.  This life is the only one we get, and I would hate to think that you might waste yours obsessing over a bunch of lies people made up thousands of years ago.  That said thank you for your comment.  Your spelling error has brightened my day Smiling.  

 


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Quote:And well, God really

Quote:
And well, God really does exist.

How do you know?

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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This is where I take a step

This is where I take a step back and take it easy.

You are just a kid and only 8 years old. You are too young to understand the stories that your elders are selling you. I would say that you need to examine them, just like your math teacher tells you to check your work. Things are not always what they seem. The people who sold you this story may be well intended, but they are selling you a story.

Muslim parents teach their Muslim children that Allah is real. Jewish parents teach their children that Yahwey is real. Your elders are selling you what was sold to them.

We hope you keep this in mind as they make those claims and we hope that you are brave enough to question those claims without fear. Even Thomas Jefferson said to question everything, "Question with boldness even the existence of God, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear".

 

You still have to do what your teachers and parents say, we are not suggesting you do bad things. We are saying that their stories are just that, just stories and you don't have to believe them just because someone smiles at you while telling you a story.

If you have read Harry Potter, you don't believe the magic of Harry Potter. You know that Harry Potter is fictional.  Although the story tells you about loyalty and doing the right thing, you still know it is a story.

 

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Ashleigh wrote:I go to

Ashleigh wrote:
I go to Clovis Christian School.

I feel so sorry for you.

You will probably be intellectually crippled for life.

(P.S. You misspelled SATAN!)

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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There is something more

There is something more powerful than satin. It's silk.


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peterweal wrote:There is

peterweal wrote:

There is something more powerful than satin. It's silk.

Heresy!!! Pay no attention to people and their false fabrics! There is only one true satin and Fredrick's of Hollywood is its prophet!

 

Brian37 wrote:
You are just a kid and only 8 years old.

Eighth-Grade.

If she were 8 and typed that well then I'd leave her alone.

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This is really sad...but

This is really sad...but something even more sad than this is the fact that there are "grown" "adults" out their who believe this too.


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Good to read that you are

Good to read that you are happy and not hostile Asleigh, if you feel like your faith improves the quality of your life, who am I to try and take it away from you. Nor am I sad for you: happy people make me happy.

Just one minor thing: we all know the stories here- in fact I am pretty certain that every "non-theist" member of this forum has read the Bible (I dare even say: often more thoroughly then most christians!) , so I am afraid that telling us about how much Jesus loves us is not going to be the "clincher".

I do understand why you chose this approach though. A friend of mine who was once a very staunch christian, just like you, told me a story about how she was in hospital when she was a child. In the bed next to hers, there was a boy who was in terrible pain, and very sad. But my friend thought she had the solution: she would tell him about Jesus, and then all of his sadness would go away and maybe his pain would as well!

So she asked the boy "Have you heard about Jesus?". And to her astonishment the boy answered "Yes, I have, and no, I am not interested".

Well... and basically that goes for us as well. Yes, we know about the stories, we just do not believe that they are more real then the story about, say, Rudolf the Red-nosed Reindeer. But most of us are still rather happy, no worries there Eye-wink

Do stick around this place if you like, though. You will not find people her who you will be able to convert- but what you wíll find is people who question éverything, including what they themselves think to be true. The only requirement, I think, is that you are prepared to ask questions and consider the answers. All of them. Even all the answers to all the questions that you ask yourself. That is called "Free Thinking", and some of the Free Thinkers on this site are religious and well-respected by most.

(And yes, there are also those who act like jerks against everybody who even has the smell of religion around them- just ignore those)


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Yaerav wrote:(And yes, there

Yaerav wrote:

(And yes, there are also those who act like jerks against everybody who even has the smell of religion around them- just ignore those)

Not everybody. I do not believe everyone should be treated with 'kid' gloves. Nor do I believe that every typo must be ridiculed. However, I do believe that if one cares whether or not his/hers words are read then they should put forth an effort to make them appealing.

I'd WANT somebody to call me out on a spelling error. Particularly, if it results in correction by humor.

Coddling/tolerating poor education has led us to this point in our history where text message thoughts become insightful. If you don't want to translate 7334speak then you must draw that metaphorical line in the sand.

 

 

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 Quote:Coddling/tolerating

 

Quote:
Coddling/tolerating poor education has led us to this point in our history where text message thoughts become insightful. If you don't want to translate 7334speak then you must draw that metaphorical line in the sand.

I have three modes of typed communication.  When I text from my phone, I take the shortcuts and use the abbreviations.  It's appropriate for that format, and was largely invented because of it.  When I'm writing inconsequential or light posts on message boards, I use a lot of "incorrect" grammar, and try to convey colloquial speech more than writing.  However, you better believe that if I want something to be taken seriously, I do my best to write with meticulous grammar and precise word usage.

I think it's kind of stodgy to think that language won't evolve as new uses for it become available.  Texting is part of life, and if "Wat r u doing 2nite?" is understood by both parties, it has served the purpose of language.  I don't think it's stodgy to insist on precision and accuracy in situations where they will add to understanding and take away the potential for confusion.

 

 

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I had a long post defending

I had a long post defending my denigration of poorly constructed e-mail. However, I realized that I was going to use 'lol' at one point and it killed the argument.

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darth_josh wrote:Yaerav

darth_josh wrote:

Yaerav wrote:

(And yes, there are also those who act like jerks against everybody who even has the smell of religion around them- just ignore those)

Not everybody. I do not believe everyone should be treated with 'kid' gloves. Nor do I believe that every typo must be ridiculed. However, I do believe that if one cares whether or not his/hers words are read then they should put forth an effort to make them appealing.

I'd WANT somebody to call me out on a spelling error. Particularly, if it results in correction by humor.

Coddling/tolerating poor education has led us to this point in our history where text message thoughts become insightful. If you don't want to translate 7334speak then you must draw that metaphorical line in the sand.

I did not mean to make a stab at anybody in this thread, so no worries didn't mean it personally Eye-wink

But I dó think that many (maybe even most) people on RRS are often harsher then necessary sooner then necessary- to me this forum does seem less balanced now then I thought it was when I signed up a couple of months ago- sometimes I might even describe the atmosphere as "Looky 'ere, it's a theist, let's get 'em mateys!"- which is doubtless an excellent way to curb global warming- but it seems like few theists are contributing to the forum nowadays, except maybe through the occasional comment in the mailbag.

Which mostly leaves us to respond rationally to each other, and pat each other on the back about how clever and rational and unbelieving we are- and that is fine in a way, but somehow I doubt if that was the primary purpose of this whole forum.


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"Lake of fire"?I wish

"Lake of fire"?

I wish believers would get to gether and get their stories strieght. Dante did not have Satan thrown in a lake of fire, but was frozen in a giant block of ice in his "Divine Comedy" in the "Inferno" chapeter that discribed the 12 circles of hell. Fire was only mentioned, not even as a lake of fire, but a river of fire called "STYX"(where the rock band got it's name).

Just like Mormons split from Christianity, just like Luthrens are a splinter of the original cult, Cruise will celibrate the birth of Jesus while at the same time attend a cult Church that believes the liniage of Jesus is the product of little green men, all because of some science fiction writer named L Ron Hubbard.

All mythological garbage.

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Yaerav wrote:darth_josh

Yaerav wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

Yaerav wrote:

(And yes, there are also those who act like jerks against everybody who even has the smell of religion around them- just ignore those)

Not everybody. I do not believe everyone should be treated with 'kid' gloves. Nor do I believe that every typo must be ridiculed. However, I do believe that if one cares whether or not his/hers words are read then they should put forth an effort to make them appealing.

I'd WANT somebody to call me out on a spelling error. Particularly, if it results in correction by humor.

Coddling/tolerating poor education has led us to this point in our history where text message thoughts become insightful. If you don't want to translate 7334speak then you must draw that metaphorical line in the sand.

I did not mean to make a stab at anybody in this thread, so no worries didn't mean it personally Eye-wink

But I dó think that many (maybe even most) people on RRS are often harsher then necessary sooner then necessary- to me this forum does seem less balanced now then I thought it was when I signed up a couple of months ago- sometimes I might even describe the atmosphere as "Looky 'ere, it's a theist, let's get 'em mateys!"- which is doubtless an excellent way to curb global warming- but it seems like few theists are contributing to the forum nowadays, except maybe through the occasional comment in the mailbag.

Which mostly leaves us to respond rationally to each other, and pat each other on the back about how clever and rational and unbelieving we are- and that is fine in a way, but somehow I doubt if that was the primary purpose of this whole forum.

Interesting...

The majority of what I see are "hit and run" theists who had no intention of contributing beyond their OP. The few that do stick around are to be commended.

I suspect this is of the former variety.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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True.

jcgadfly wrote:

Interesting...

The majority of what I see are "hit and run" theists who had no intention of contributing beyond their OP

True. And in a way that is my point: I recall RRS used to draw in more "lasting theists".

Quote:
The few that do stick around are to be commended.

Absolutely Smiling


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Yaerav wrote:jcgadfly

Yaerav wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Interesting...

The majority of what I see are "hit and run" theists who had no intention of contributing beyond their OP

True. And in a way that is my point: I recall RRS used to draw in more "lasting theists".

Quote:
The few that do stick around are to be commended.

Absolutely Smiling

Are you saying it's the RRS's fault because "hit and run" theists make "hit and run" posts?

I don't necessarily believe theists should be smoked within seconds of their OP (pointing finger at myself also) but if one brings antagonism one shouldn't expect flowers in return.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote:Are you

jcgadfly wrote:

Are you saying it's the RRS's fault because "hit and run" theists make "hit and run" posts?

Not quite like that, you will have those anyway. I do think it is our fault that there are so few óther theists though.

Quote:
I don't necessarily believe theists should be smoked within seconds of their OP (pointing finger at myself also) but if one brings antagonism one shouldn't expect flowers in return.

True- theists who start out vindictive will usually be the "hit and run" ones though. Many theists I debate with (outside RRS), even the bible thumpers, are up for a good debate though, even the YEC's: there's more to life then the age of the earth etc. The only principle I hold to in such debates is "If you start quoting the bible at me, I will start quoting the bible at you"- which usually appears to be a very effective threat Eye-wink

But one reason why those threads often work reasonably well is that I do not call them out on every single irrational statement they make, and I never try to "win" in a thread- my usual "secret agenda" is showing that, first, there ís common ground between "believers" and "heathens", and second, that doubt is not something to be feared, and may even be something to embrace.

Although I must admit that the few occasions when I really managed to make that last point, the christians and muslems I exchanged thoughts with, basically fled the discussion, literally, every single time. That still confuses me, but I think it may mean that the argument for doubt could be pretty powerful.


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Yaerav wrote:jcgadfly

Yaerav wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Are you saying it's the RRS's fault because "hit and run" theists make "hit and run" posts?

Not quite like that, you will have those anyway. I do think it is our fault that there are so few óther theists though.

Quote:
I don't necessarily believe theists should be smoked within seconds of their OP (pointing finger at myself also) but if one brings antagonism one shouldn't expect flowers in return.

True- theists who start out vindictive will usually be the "hit and run" ones though. Many theists I debate with (outside RRS), even the bible thumpers, are up for a good debate though, even the YEC's: there's more to life then the age of the earth etc. The only principle I hold to in such debates is "If you start quoting the bible at me, I will start quoting the bible at you"- which usually appears to be a very effective threat Eye-wink

But one reason why those threads often work reasonably well is that I do not call them out on every single irrational statement they make, and I never try to "win" in a thread- my usual "secret agenda" is showing that, first, there ís common ground between "believers" and "heathens", and second, that doubt is not something to be feared, and may even be something to embrace.

Although I must admit that the few occasions when I really managed to make that last point, the christians and muslems I exchanged thoughts with, basically fled the discussion, literally, every single time. That still confuses me, but I think it may mean that the argument for doubt could be pretty powerful.

The possibility that everything you had drummed into your head during your formative years is wrong is daunting - I agree.

When I'm arguing the nonsense of Scripture I work along the lines of the quotes by John Wesley:

  1. "Nay, if there be any mistakes in the Bible, there may as well be a thousand. If there be one falsehood in that book, it did not come from the God of truth" (John Wesley, Journal, 24 July 1776).


  2. "Nay, will not the allowing there is any error in Scripture, shake the authority of the whole?" (Works, Jackson ed., 9:150)

Usually, that's when I get "Oh, that's allegory" or "The writer didn't really mean that" or even "The fact that God can't be understood and the Bible makes no sense is what makes God so awesome and wonderful". Ick - nearly got diabetes from that last one but she is cute as all get out.

Most people here point out the logical mistakes only when the theist in question tries to use logic themselves and get it wrong.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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butterbattle wrote:Quote:And

butterbattle wrote:

Quote:
And well, God really does exist.

How do you know?

 

He just does, okay?! It's axiomatic!

 

Santa, fairies, unicorns, leprechauns, goblins, Gandalf the Grey, batman, flying spaghetti monster, darkwing duck, etc. None of these are axiomatic. OBVIOUSLY.

 

But God exists. He just does. I mean, obviously.

 

It breaks my heart that you atheists just can't see the obvious.

 

 

 

 

 

[/fun&games]

 

 

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


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Yaerav wrote:jcgadfly

Yaerav wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Are you saying it's the RRS's fault because "hit and run" theists make "hit and run" posts?

Not quite like that, you will have those anyway. I do think it is our fault that there are so few óther theists though.

 

I agree. However, I see a difference in sending through the contact form and signing up for membership.

I also think it's crazy to think that everyone 'should' react in the same manner to new posters. We're here to get their attention. Our ideology's very existence is an affront to them prior to logging in. Short version: They're angry already that we live.

One of their own, Greg Lukianoff, chairman/president of F.I.R.E. once wrote:

Greg Lujianoff wrote:
If colleges and universities have any "customer service" obligation, it is to expose students to diverse views, not to censor them. Higher education's function is to serve as a forum for serious debate, discussion and intellectual innovation. Done correctly, feelings will be hurt, beliefs will be challenged, and sacred cows will be barbecued. Being offended is what happens when you have your deepest beliefs challenged, and if you make it through college without ever having been offended, you should ask for your money back.

 In Lukianoff's paragraph, substitute 'internet' for 'colleges and universities' and you have my opinion. Personally, I consider that an endorsement of the way the site works including the 'done correctly' part. There is a line and quite a few, almost everyone, has crossed it in the past, present, and will again in the future.

That's where the mods come into the picture. If something consistently chases people away, we notice. If responses become 'obnoxious' and/or 'canned', we notice. Even our own.

Thus the reason I read responses to my responses. It isn't just theists that we encourage to engage in introspection. If there are ever tenets to freethought then I think that should be one.

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 Oh, boy... I'm going to

 Oh, boy... I'm going to open a can of worms here... and I'm sorry.

I agree with that quoted paragraph.  I don't care if theists ever debate me.  If you want to google through our site, you can find tons of lengthy debates I've had.  I can point you to off-site debates I've had with big name guys like James McGrath and John Loftus.  I'm not afraid of a debate, but it's not my purpose here. {EDIT: On reflection, I should be more clear.  I recently publicly challenged John Loftus with a lengthy rebuttal, but he has not responded, so I haven't debated him.  James McGrath, yes.  Twice.}

I'm here to promote critical thinking and scientific inquiry.  I'm here to challenge everyone -- atheists, too -- to think critically about everything they believe.  Honestly, if some people don't leave mad, I don't think I'm doing my job very well.  When I think back to my deconversion from theism, I remember getting offended dozens, maybe hundreds of times before I stopped and thought critically about what people were saying.

Remember, deconversion isn't a hit and run process.  It might be that the RRS is just one jab in a boxing match that goes ten rounds.  If a thousand theists have visited here just long enough to get their panties in a bunch, that's a thousand people who might get it through their thick skulls next time somebody offends their dear and fluffy lord.

Honestly, the reason theists don't stay here, in my opinion, is that this is the only atheist website I know of where the majority of regular posters are highly, highly educated and can pummel theism from nearly any angle.  I'm not taking a dig at any other website.  It's just that I haven't seen the level of intellectual contribution -- just look at our RRS author section -- at any other site with this much viewership.

Finally... here's where I'm going to stir up the hornet's nest.  Mattshizzle just got banned for (among other things) needlessly running off theists by calling them asshats, demanding their torture, and posting that "not this shit again" cat before our more scholarly and even tempered posters could get a crack at them.  We put up with him for a long time because he was a big fan and did contribute some genuinely good material.  In the end, though, we unanimously agreed that the website would be better if theists didn't get flamed.

So, to your point, we do care about making theists welcome for a debate, but frankly, if they can't stand the first punch, that's their issue, not ours.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Quote:My name is ashleigh

Quote:

My name is ashleigh and I go to clovis Christian School.I am in the 8th
grade. And well, God really does exist. He lives in heaven with his son,
Jesus Christ, my Savior.

 

You may not know it Ashleigh but your cosy notion of a father and son living together in a place called heaven would one day have had you put to a rather hideous death at the hands of ... well, to put it bluntly, christians.

 

It's all to do with being seen to separate the entities of the trinity, something christian theologians got very tetchy about around the time of the Council of Nicaea when a guy called Arius was more or less saying what you just said in your post (he would have been a great fan of preaching about lakes of fire and all that stuff too). Arius got off lightly - a broken nose and excommunication, but many of his followers did not. Too late for them when the theologians then decided that maybe such a literal representation of the godhead wasn't too bad after all (especially as it was one Constantine seemingly understood and liked), and pretty much too late for Arius too who allegedly died the day before his old mates were due to let him back into the club.

 

That's the problem with the particular theology your elders have indoctrinated you into - it hasn't quite been the uninterrupted continuation of a single religious vision it pretends to be. Far from it in fact. And along the way it has given succour and meaning - not to the poor and disadvantaged of humanity it purports to - but to every shade of bigotry, malice, control freakery, cruelty (bordering or often exceeding sadism),  and indeed all the unbridled greed and ambition humanity also has an unfortunate habit of producing with equal regularity. The christian story is one of the attachment of religion to political and social control, and if you're still young enough to think that such a relationship can be conducted without either or both parties to it being corrupted on the way then I can only wish that what is left to you of your rational faculties after your indoctrinators are finished with them survives long enough for you to see for yourself the error of your childish faith in your assumptions and their teachings. Sadly both these things are indistinguishable from each other, and that in itself should ring alarm bells in your own mind.

 

Somewhere buried in all the christian teachings - which your callous assumption that all those not in agreement with you will burn in hell for eternity suggests you have a problem truly understanding - is the advice to be empathic rather than judgemental. It is at once the most important (probably the only important) element of christianity as a philosophy which has any lasting worth to the individual who truly understands it, and at the same time the one christian instruction which christian instructors most singularly contradict through their own actions, so quick as they are to presume their doctrine prevails over all others and that their prejudicial judgement of others therefore carries authority. It doesn't. It only carries the proofs of their own insecurities and their tendency to victimise.

 

But you're young yet. Hopefully you'll see that bit for yourself too.

 

In the meantime you have both my sympathy and my earnest good wishes. I remember my own teens well enough to recall that it didn't take much to undermine my confidence and my badly constructed vision of the world I lived in, or the angst and insecurities engendered by finding that the same world threw up infinitely more questions than it ever provided answers for. It took me many years to realise that this of course was in fact where its beauty lay, and its ugliness always resided in or near those neatly packaged and trite ready-made "answers" which are the preserve of dishonest politicians (all too plentiful) and so-called theologians (even more plentiful).

 

But I was lucky compared to you - I did not need to divest myself of indoctrination first. Good luck!

I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy


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 I am not so much ashamed

 I am not so much ashamed of Ashleigh for writing this, so much as I am ashamed of her parents for bringing her up and cramming this down her throat.  She should be spending that time learning how to write and spell properly.  

 

Ashleigh,

     I encourage you to think freely.  Consider this: if you were born in any other land, you would say the same thing about Krishna, Vishnu, Buddha, etc.  The Christian god has been disproven time and time again.  I am not sure if you know this, but the bible also says slavery is ok and that if your son disobeys you that you should stone him to death.  That's just backwards.  Religion and the concept of an afterlife are how we cope with our mortality.  We are naturally scared of death, and so we easily circumvent it and say that we live forever.  Religion and god are how we interpret hierarchy, just as we naturally incorporate hierarchy into the natural world.  We also seek a higher meaning in life, even though there really isn't one.  It's just us, and whoever we may meet along the way.  These are lower level urges and I implore to look past these and think with a a clear mind.  God is imaginary.

Evolution cannot be debated. 'Tis real.


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Hilarious

This is the funniest type of religious argument IMO, and you see it quite often. It's the "really does" argument. God "really does" exist. Followed up with another top 10 hit: the one where they list what you already know they believe.

"there's a father and a son and a holy spirit and they live in Heaven"? Oh, now that you put it that way, I'm convinced!


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When I first saw this thread

When I first saw this thread I thought it might be a message personally to me - my name is sometimes mispelled as Satin! I was quite disappointed. And, I suspect, Jesus must have been a bodybuilder if he could have any chance of throwing me anywhere - I'm a solid gal, you know.

I also thought it was a message for me as someone called Ashley is giving me a bit of grief lately. And she's quite young, 'though she's 17 I think. I'm not familiar with ages/grades in America, but I suspect our Ashleigh here is younger than that.

darth_josh wrote:

 I do not believe everyone should be treated with 'kid' gloves. Nor do I believe that every typo must be ridiculed. However, I do believe that if one cares whether or not his/hers words are read then they should put forth an effort to make them appealing.

I'd WANT somebody to call me out on a spelling error. Particularly, if it results in correction by humor.

Coddling/tolerating poor education has led us to this point in our history where text message thoughts become insightful. If you don't want to translate 7334speak then you must draw that metaphorical line in the sand.

 

I very much concur - while it can be upsetting to be called out on such things, the only pain suffered is a sting to the ego. We can all survive that.


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All you guys suck. Has noone

All you guys suck. Sticking out tongue

Has noone realized that there is at least a medium chance that an entire christian school has a campaign going to send out letters to atheists and defeat their arguments, as well as make us out to be pricks? Making fun of a spelling error isn't going to help our case. Sticking out tongue

Ashleigh wrote:

My name is ashleigh and I go to clovis Christian School.I am in the 8th
grade.

Hello Ashleigh. That's an interesting spelling of your name. Smiling

Ashleigh wrote:
 And well, God really does exist. He lives in heaven with his son,
Jesus Christ, my Savior. God sent Jesus to earth to die for each and every
one of our sins. He sent his one and only son to die for us. My God is a
very loving and merciful god. If you believe that Jesus died for our sins
and accept him as your Savior, you too can become saved. If you are saved
you will go to heaven. U cant get into heaven any other way. If you dont go
to heaven, then there is only one other place to go, hell. Hell does exist.
Its where satin lives.

The problem, Ashleigh, is that none of this is fact. It is all a bunch of old stories that were written in a 500-600 year old book that was written by men who did not speak to any god, unless it was in their own imagination. I know it can seem to have a power that you can relate to, but in reality it is merely a way for other people to control what you say and do throughout your life. I hope you are strong enough to fight through it, and reach the real truth.

Ashleigh wrote:

   One day Jesus will come back and he will take all the Christains. Then
god will destroy the earth. He will throw Satin into the lake of fire,
along with all the non believers. I think that this day is coming pretty
soon.

Did you know that christians have thought this day was coming soon for some 2000 years? When exactly is soon anyway?

Ashleigh wrote:

And I dont want any of u to go to hell.

That's very nice of you, but hell doesn't exist. So you don't have anything to worry about. Smiling

Ashleigh wrote:
 U probly wont even read this
but i will pray for all of u, even though i dont know u.

And in reciprocation, we will be thinking for you, even though we don't know you. At least, until you can start thinking for yourself. Smiling

Ashleigh wrote:
I hope u have a
change in heart and relize that God and Jesus exist.

That would require god and/or jesus to present themselves to me and prove their existence. Seeing as how that hasn't happened yet, I am not going to hold my breath waiting.

Ashleigh wrote:
 Being a Christian doesnt mean that your life is going to be great or that we are better than
anyone.

I'm very happy to hear you say that christians aren't better than anyone. I'll be even happier if you actually mean it, but in my experience such is not the case.

Ashleigh wrote:

     I am a proud Christian and i love the LORD. I hope all of u have a
blessed day!
                 Love your sister in Christ,
                          Ashleigh

I am a proud Canadian and I have no belief in a god. I have no need for one either. I accept responsibility for my own actions without blaming an invisible entity. I don't accept that I was born a criminal without having a say in the matter. I will not be punished for something I had no affect on. And therefore, I will always see your god as evil. I hope you will one day too. Have a good day! Smiling

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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SevenScarletSharks' Reply

 Hi Ashleigh, 

 

I'm in the same grade as you, so hopefully this will probably feel more comfortable than a reply from someone who is, say, 20 years older than you.

The big problem with your argument is that you make an assertion, and then assume that it is true without any evidence. Maybe you can swallow everything that an ancient book spews without proof that it's even true, but I and many skeptics like me can't, so if you're going to try to convert people then you need to show some real proof. You may not have been aware of this, but converting people is not as easy as it looks like in Chick Tracts. (Which are really funny by the way.)

Another problem with the belief system that caused me to become an atheist is the whole law regarding sin and salvation. Your "perfect" god made an evil tree that could give people the ability to reason between good and evil, and then told Adam and Eve that it was evil to touch it, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY HAD NO PREVIOUS KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD OR EVIL AT THE TIME. Then God makes a rule where ALL people have to suffer with sin, and even makes a torture chamber just for them, and threatens them with eternal hellfire if they do not repent of the sins that THEY DID NOT COMMIT. Then God sends down himself in human form, and sacrifices himself to himself to create a loophole in the laws that he created. Makes sense? I didn't think so. 

Also, I find it weird that you Christians always have to say to my face that you're praying for me, when you're so sure that it will work. Why? Are you unsure? Does the prayer not do anything at all without the requested actions of the person being prayed for? Are you being condescending? (Which I doubt, since you seem like a nice girl.) And what about the paradox of free will vs. God's plan? Do I make my own choices? Do you pray for me to make certain choices? If so, do I have free will? Are you praying of your own free will? If God already has a plan and you're praying to him to not do it, but this plan is irreversible, will the prayer work? Just a bunch of hypothetical questions. 

I look forward to a response, 

SevenScarletSharks

SevenScarletSharks reserves the right to be better than you.


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Nice post SevenScarletSharks

I wish I'd been as big minded as you are when I was in the 8th, SevenScarletSharks. It's true, you are better than me.

But you really should try not to upper case words like jesus, god and christian.

Ashleigh, the old testament is partly a Jewish history book, partly a cultural diatribe and mostly a weft of outright myth.

The new testament was written in Greek by nobody knows who. Its assertions are unprovable, it's unsupported historically.

It's miracles are unrepeatable in the laboratory. I always thought if jesus had really wanted

to make a point for the ages he could have stood the great pyramids on their points. But no.

There were more than 50 historians writing at that time and none of them mentions

the king of the Jews.

Ashleigh - why not start by trying to find proof of Jesus outside the bible? And outside books

written by christians? If you do you will find a couple of huge fabrications (Josephus) and a bunch

of references that could be about anybody in historians like Tacitus. 

Even if you look at the new testament you'll have huge questions. Some of this stuff is written

as an eyewitness account when jesus was all alone, 60-100 years later, in a foreign language. What???

The garden of eden. Snakes don't have lips and cannot forms words, despite the harry potter thing.

And how can god be said to have forgiven us when he allegedly punished jesus on the cross?

The weirdness and confusion in the text goes on and on. Born to a virgin? The son of god? A holy ghost?

It's comic book stuff and would be laughable if not dangerous. And think about all those fossils.

Did Satan put them there?

When you think about it, all those old time biblical writers, and some of this stuff dates back thousands of years

before Jesus is meant to have lived, had absolutely no idea what they were talking about.

Every event had supernatural portents. Lightning, thunder, earthquake, eclipses, droughts.

But like us today, those people were just big plains monkeys and relied on their 5 terrestrial senses.

They were the same as we are - just as limited and even more fearful. They talked to god same as any ham TV evangelist.

Consider the issue of free will. At what age can someone be said to have developed a level of comprehension that

gives them free will? And does threatening some one with eternal torment short circuit free will entirely?

Given your explanation of the near future including the casting of Satan and all non-believers into a lake of fire, the message of Jesus is "Love me or you're dead".

Given this, do you feel truly free to ignore his message or do you feel threatened?

This sprawling post reflects my limited, hippity-hop brain. But even some one like me can find hundreds of reasons to

believe there is no god. That we are apparently alone. That we may never know the answers. And that this is more

wonderful by far, than any religion can ever be.

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Ashleigh wrote:One day Jesus

Ashleigh wrote:

One day Jesus will come back and he will take all the Christains. Then
god will destroy the earth. He will throw Satin into the lake of fire,
along with all the non believers.

Oh my gosh Ashleigh who is telling you this awful stuff, they've neglected to teach you to spell properly and instead filled your head with horror stories of genocide and demons. I'm so sorry.

On the upside the irony of your spelling errors is pretty awesome, I hope one day you will recieve a education that enables you to enjoy spotting a little irony, too.

 

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Ashleigh, at your age, I

Ashleigh, at your age, I believed those very same things.  If you honestly value truth -- and I bet you do -- I urge you to keep and open mind and to value reason and evidence.  If your beliefs are true, they will be supported by reason and evidence.  If not, then I hope you have the courage to pursue truth.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.