OJ gets 9 years.

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OJ gets 9 years.

He should have gotten more. BUT, the good thing is that he will be 70 before he is up for his first parole. Hopefully his joints and health by that time will make him think twice about doing something stupid. BUT I wouldn't put anything past him.

 

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Now I am seeing 15 years,

Now I am seeing 15 years, maybe the parole is available in 9 but the sentance is 15. Even better.

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Yes! There is a God!

Yes! There is a God!


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nigelTheBold wrote:Yes!

nigelTheBold wrote:

Yes! There is a God!

No there is not, because if I were an omnipotent omni benevolent god promising to protect my followers, Nicole and Ron would still be alive. They are dead, not because Superman vs Lex Luthor, they are dead because OJ couldn't control his jelousy.

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Brian37 wrote:nigelTheBold

Brian37 wrote:

nigelTheBold wrote:

Yes! There is a God!

No there is not, because if I were an omnipotent omni benevolent god promising to protect my followers, Nicole and Ron would still be alive. They are dead, not because Superman vs Lex Luthor, they are dead because OJ couldn't control his jelousy.

I know. It seems strange that he's getting sent up not because of his murders, but for armed robbery. (It was armed robbery, right? I'm too apathetic to look it up.)

I can only imagine he felt invincible after getting away with murder. "You can't convict me! I'm fuckin' OJ Simpson!"

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When he got the "Not Guilty"

When he got the "Not Guilty" verdict in 1995, the judge should have immediately sentenced every single member of the jury to 10 years in prison for stupidity.

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Brian37 wrote:Now I am

Brian37 wrote:

Now I am seeing 15 years, maybe the parole is available in 9 but the sentence is 15. Even better.

CNN is reporting he is sentenced to 15 years and he is eligible for parole in 9 years. He was a sniveling kiss ass at the sentencing hearing though the judge said "Earlier in this case, at a bail hearing, I said to Mr. Simpson I didn't know if he was arrogant, ignorant or both," Glass said. "During the trial and through this proceeding I got the answer, and it was both." 

 

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MattShizzle wrote:When he

MattShizzle wrote:

When he got the "Not Guilty" verdict in 1995, the judge should have immediately sentenced every single member of the jury to 10 years in prison for stupidity.

Matt, I love you, but I cant to anything but be blunt with you, just like I would any theist.

That attitude is what errodes our Constitution and the ability of the accused to defend themselves. You don't have to like the outcome, no one is asking you to. But without our system, as flawed as it is, it would be impossible in every case for the truely innocent to be defended.

So the issue becomes the following.

1. Do you lock everyone up based on emotional appeal based on the nature of the charge, just to be sure?

2. Or, do you risk letting the guilty go free, to insure LONG TERM that if a mistake is made, and someone innocent is convicted, there is a chance to reverse that?

I agree the virdict sucked, but that is the nature of our system. I would rather have it this way, than to put even one innocent person behind bars.

It is just the reverse, especially with the death penalty. The judge, prosicuting attourny and jury, should be willing to accept their own death penalty, if they make the mistake of putting an innocent person to death.

I know what it is like to be accused, all be it minor, as a kid in school, being accused of throwing a rock at a car from the playground. I saw what happend, the front tire of the passenger's side, merely kicked up the rock off the road. But since the driver saw all the kids playing near the road, he assumed that one of us threw it.  He pulled into the school parking lot and complained. I stupidly stepped up and explained the truth.

Being unpopular and a nerd at the time, the teacher did not believe me. We lost our intire feild day because he took us all into the cafiteria untill someone confessed. I was hated by all the students and much of the staff, because I did not confess to something I didn't do. It sounds trival because I was not an adult nor accused of a violent fellony. But it WAS phycologyically tramatizing.

So before you go off on your "lock em up and throw away the key" Nacy Grace/John Wash rant, you need to seriously think about what would YOU do, and what would YOU want, if YOU were accused of a serious crime you know you didn't do.

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Brian37 wrote: I know what

Brian37 wrote:

 

I know what it is like to be accused, all be it minor, as a kid in school, being accused of throwing a rock at a car from the playground. I saw what happend, the front tire of the passenger's side, merely kicked up the rock off the road. But since the driver saw all the kids playing near the road, he assumed that one of us threw it.  He pulled into the school parking lot and complained. I stupidly stepped up and explained the truth.

Being unpopular and a nerd at the time, the teacher did not believe me. We lost our intire feild day because he took us all into the cafiteria untill someone confessed. I was hated by all the students and much of the staff, because I did not confess to something I didn't do. It sounds trival because I was not an adult nor accused of a violent fellony. But it WAS phycologyically tramatizing.

So before you go off on your "lock em up and throw away the key" Nacy Grace/John Wash rant, you need to seriously think about what would YOU do, and what would YOU want, if YOU were accused of a serious crime you know you didn't do.

A similar thing happened to me in junior high. During lunch on a snowy day someone threw a snowball and hit the assistant principal in the back of the head. When he turned around he saw my friend and I standing there. He grabbed both of us and hauled us to the office despite our pleas of innocence. We didn't do it a group of high school students driving by threw it from a car. Never the less we were both punished with spanking and detention. This was a public school and I was in 9th grade and they still allowed physical punishment then. I was so pissed off over this that I refused to go to the honors dance they had each year for the most outstanding students at the school. I had the 4th highest grades and test scores in the place.

My mother called and complained and since was an adminstrator at the state hospital she turned loose the state on them. Eventually the asst principal got suspended for a week without pay.

I truly was not a saint but I wasn't stupid enough to do something like that. 

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The biggest problem with the

The biggest problem with the murder trial was that the jury was HAND PICKED by the defense.


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pauljohntheskeptic

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

I know what it is like to be accused, all be it minor, as a kid in school, being accused of throwing a rock at a car from the playground. I saw what happend, the front tire of the passenger's side, merely kicked up the rock off the road. But since the driver saw all the kids playing near the road, he assumed that one of us threw it.  He pulled into the school parking lot and complained. I stupidly stepped up and explained the truth.

Being unpopular and a nerd at the time, the teacher did not believe me. We lost our intire feild day because he took us all into the cafiteria untill someone confessed. I was hated by all the students and much of the staff, because I did not confess to something I didn't do. It sounds trival because I was not an adult nor accused of a violent fellony. But it WAS phycologyically tramatizing.

So before you go off on your "lock em up and throw away the key" Nacy Grace/John Wash rant, you need to seriously think about what would YOU do, and what would YOU want, if YOU were accused of a serious crime you know you didn't do.

A similar thing happened to me in junior high. During lunch on a snowy day someone threw a snowball and hit the assistant principal in the back of the head. When he turned around he saw my friend and I standing there. He grabbed both of us and hauled us to the office despite our pleas of innocence. We didn't do it a group of high school students driving by threw it from a car. Never the less we were both punished with spanking and detention. This was a public school and I was in 9th grade and they still allowed physical punishment then. I was so pissed off over this that I refused to go to the honors dance they had each year for the most outstanding students at the school. I had the 4th highest grades and test scores in the place.

My mother called and complained and since was an adminstrator at the state hospital she turned loose the state on them. Eventually the asst principal got suspended for a week without pay.

I truly was not a saint but I wasn't stupid enough to do something like that. 

AND THAT is why you don't base your decisions on emotional reactions to a charge like Nacy Gracy or John Walsh. EVIDENCE is the only thing, not blind trust.

 

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Brian37 wrote: AND THAT is

Brian37 wrote:

 

AND THAT is why you don't base your decisions on emotional reactions to a charge like Nacy Gracy or John Walsh. EVIDENCE is the only thing, not blind trust.

 

I think Nancy Grace is nearly as bad as Bill O'Reilly. She is a loose cannon that causes harm to gain ratings. Just look at the Casey Anthony mess she caused in Orlando. I don't know whether she killed the kid or what but the neighbors and parents have a right to a peaceful life, something they don't get thanks to Nancy Grace riling up the protesters. I'm not sure where they are going to find jurors for Anthony's trial either as everyone seems biased. Then there was the Trenton Ducket case where the mother committed suicide right after Nancy Grace fried her on air.

 

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"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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pauljohntheskeptic

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

AND THAT is why you don't base your decisions on emotional reactions to a charge like Nacy Gracy or John Walsh. EVIDENCE is the only thing, not blind trust.

 

I think Nancy Grace is nearly as bad as Bill O'Reilly. She is a loose cannon that causes harm to gain ratings. Just look at the Casey Anthony mess she caused in Orlando. I don't know whether she killed the kid or what but the neighbors and parents have a right to a peaceful life, something they don't get thanks to Nancy Grace riling up the protesters. I'm not sure where they are going to find jurors for Anthony's trial either as everyone seems biased. Then there was the Trenton Ducket case where the mother committed suicide right after Nancy Grace fried her on air.

 

Just because something is obvious does not mean it should not go through the same process. Nancy Grace will eventually put someone in jail who doesn't deserve it. But what is worse than that, she is creating a long term society of viglanties. Not in the sense of street violence, but in societle jury pools.

Juries are NOT there to "get even", they are there to asses facts. Nancy is setting up society to get on juries to "get even". If she was concerned about facts, she wouldn't be painting the accused as guilty before they are put on trial. She is about ratings, not honesty.

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Quote:The biggest problem

Quote:
The biggest problem with the murder trial was that the jury was HAND PICKED by the defense.

No, Matt: that was a symptom of the biggest problem, which was that the prosecution was stupid. The allowed the jury to be selected entirely by the defense, they put a terrible witness on the stand and they made huge, emotion-driven mistakes like telling OJ to put the glove on (despite many, many warnings not to play along with the stunts of the defense).

 

I agree with Brian, however.

Does anyone else remember the murder of Laci Peterson? IMHO, this trial was far worse than the OJ farce, as it had all of the same problems but with the opposite verdict. Scott's on Death Row without ever getting a fair trial - convicted on the emotional spin the media kicked-up around the case, circumstantial evidence (which is never worth diddly), terrible legal representation and appeals to emotion/religious values by the prosecution.

Whether or not he committed the murder is beside the point - there was not enough evidence to connect him to it.

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Your assesment of Peterson

Your assesment of Peterson most wont understand because you and I are not thinking like laymen using emotions, but thinking long term, Constitutionally as far as evidentuary procedure.

Our "Justice" system is becoming less and less about procedure and quality control, and more McMedia emotional appeal. Our future jury pools are going to be "get even" instead of looking for facts only.

Peterson's own behaivor would indicate that he probiblay did it, BUT, the errosion of procedure and emotional convictions errodes the Constitutuional rights of all citiens if IN ANY CASE, is not followed properly.

It is not about OJ or Peterson or Jackson, it is about getting the facts and getting it right dispite emotions. That long term, protects us all.

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Quote:Peterson's own

Quote:
Peterson's own behaivor would indicate that he probiblay did it, BUT, the errosion of procedure and emotional convictions errodes the Constitutuional rights of all citiens if IN ANY CASE, is not followed properly.

Scott did finally confess to doing the deed, which is the only thing that brings me any peace of mind here.

People need to consider the ramifications of the precedent that was set: if your spouse disappears, and you were having an extramarital affair at the time of her disappearance, you will be put on death row!

To say the least, that is not justice.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Quote:
Peterson's own behaivor would indicate that he probiblay did it, BUT, the errosion of procedure and emotional convictions errodes the Constitutuional rights of all citiens if IN ANY CASE, is not followed properly.

Scott did finally confess to doing the deed, which is the only thing that brings me any peace of mind here.

People need to consider the ramifications of the precedent that was set: if your spouse disappears, and you were having an extramarital affair at the time of her disappearance, you will be put on death row!

To say the least, that is not justice.

Again, what far too many people confuse as far as issues are the following.

1. The nature of the charge....what the person is accused of.

VS

2. Facts that back up the state's case.

Emotionalism only leads to bad quality control. And all one has to do to understand how important quality control is, is to think of a point in one's life, and everyone has had this happen, no matter how minor the issue, everyone has been accused of something they know they did not do.

Peterson's guilt IS NOT the issue. The issue is protecting the system long term by demanding that law enforcement and the courts only seek facts beyond the emotion of a case to insure that no innocent people get convicted.

 

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I've always thought the

I've always thought the prosecution should be banned from mentioning emotional stuff like how horrible the crime was, how the family suffers, etc as that is not relevant to guilt or innocence (at the sentencing it's a different story, as that is relevant there. )

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MattShizzle wrote:I've

MattShizzle wrote:

I've always thought the prosecution should be banned from mentioning emotional stuff like how horrible the crime was, how the family suffers, etc as that is not relevant to guilt or innocence (at the sentencing it's a different story, as that is relevant there. )

I tottally agree with you on that. ESPECIALLY DURING THE TRIAL, and not the sentancing phase. If all it amounts to is an emotional tear jerker, having nothing to do with facts, it should be barred.

Otherwise every citen of America could be convicted of merely offending someone.

Law is supposed to be based on provable demonstrable fact, and when you can't prove something, it should not matter one bit what your emotions are.

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One of the biggest problems

One of the biggest problems with our legal system is it's all about who the better lawyer is, sometimes trumping the facts. So a poor person who can't afford a lawyer and gets a public defender may go to prison innocent while a rich person who can afford a really good lawyer can get away with shit.

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MattShizzle wrote:One of the

MattShizzle wrote:

One of the biggest problems with our legal system is it's all about who the better lawyer is, sometimes trumping the facts. So a poor person who can't afford a lawyer and gets a public defender may go to prison innocent while a rich person who can afford a really good lawyer can get away with shit.

Agreed. In most localities the prosicution has unlimited funds but the defense is limited. It stacks the deck against the poor.

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Just to bring this back

Just to bring this back full-circle:

Does anyone remember that real gem of the OJ trial aftermath, where the one Juror was asked about the more-or-less completely conclusive DNA evidence, and they responded, "Well, lots of people have the same blood type, y'know,"

 

This, to me, is one the most important remarks in contemporary time regarding the importance of education if we desire to have a just rule of law.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
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From what I remember a

From what I remember a couple members were black and wanted to acquit him as revenge for the (also unjust) acquital of the cops that beat Rodney King.

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Quote:I've always thought

Quote:

I've always thought the prosecution should be banned from mentioning emotional stuff like how horrible the crime was, how the family suffers, etc as that is not relevant to guilt or innocence (at the sentencing it's a different story, as that is relevant there. )

I agree with this. The purpose of the criminal justice system is not to exact vengance for the victims. It is to ascertain the guilt or innocence of the accused. Too often, both the prosecution and the defense turn a courtroom into a battle over the character of those who stand trial (which doesn't even count as circumstantial evidence). You want to convince the jurors that the individual whose fate they are deliberating is a particular sort of individual. If the trial is murder, perhaps the prosecutor will dig up the past of the accused to make it sound like he's violent and drunk. While this may be relevant in, say, a custody battle, it will not help ascertain the guilt or innocence of the accused of the crime commited.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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MattShizzle wrote:From what

MattShizzle wrote:

From what I remember a couple members were black and wanted to acquit him as revenge for the (also unjust) acquital of the cops that beat Rodney King.

 

Pretty much, keep in mind that the jury was sequestored and that was the last thing they could remember before being separated from the rest of the world. With the racially divided crowds outside the court house and the assertion by the defense that lead investigator was a racist, it is not hard to understand why he was let go. I remember in my 6th grade class the black half of the class stood up and cheered when he was found not guilty. The perception was that this was the one black man who could get the same treatment as white criminals who attack black victims, such as the pigs that beat Rodney King.

This doesn't make OJ not a murderer mind you. Ron Goldman and Nicole Simpson didn't beat Rodney King and they weren't members of the LAPD, the largest racist organization in Southern California at the time. But it was that racial hostility that governed the juries verdict.


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Quote:This, to me, is one

Quote:

This, to me, is one the most important remarks in contemporary time regarding the importance of education if we desire to have a just rule of law.

It's an innate flaw in the jury system: There is no cutoff for education.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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deludedgod wrote:It's an

deludedgod wrote:

It's an innate flaw in the jury system: There is no cutoff for education.

 

Nor should there be. That would be even worse than when there was a cutoff for education in voting that was used by whites to disenfranchise blacks in the south.


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Quote:Nor should there be.I

Quote:

Nor should there be.

I didn't say that there should be. That's why its called an innate flaw. It would be worse to overturn it, but with it in place, you get absurdities like what KB quoted above.

EDIT: This aside, what KB quoted utterly baffles me. I've never been called to jury duty, but surely jurors have to be educated in modern evidence gathering before going to the courtroom.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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Actually it's even worse

Actually it's even worse than you think. The people who are on juries are the people that are too stupid to think of a way to get out of jury duty. (granted I have a legitimate physical reason I can't serve on a jury. ) Not counting those who feel the "civic duty" to serve on one and can stand it. I personally think the idea of having "professional juries" would be better - that way we know the people on a jury have half a clue and we don't disrupt the average person's life with jury duty (I actually heard people seriously say they would automatically vote "guilty" for making them serve jury duty or automatically "not guilty" to get back at the prosecution for having to serve if they were picked because having to serve jury duty is so unpleasant. )

 

And no, Deluded, complete idiots can serve - very few people understand things like DNA evidence and lawyers tend to want to exclude educated people.

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Quote:Nor should there be.

Quote:
Nor should there be. That would be even worse than when there was a cutoff for education in voting that was used by whites to disenfranchise blacks in the south.

I disagree. You're planting an alterior motive in order to disenfranchise the core idea.

If there was not tampering with the process with racist motivation, the idea would be absolutely great, IMHO.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Kevin R Brown
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Quote:EDIT: This aside, what

Quote:
EDIT: This aside, what KB quoted utterly baffles me. I've never been called to jury duty, but surely jurors have to be educated in modern evidence gathering before going to the courtroom.

Nope. I myself have been called to the witness stand for a murder, and my brother has been called to juror duty. I neither case was the evidence explained to us before we went into the courtroom.

In my case, the crown prosecutor (whom I was a witness for) painstakingly went over courtroom procedure, but I got a very definite feeling throughout the episode that I was intentionally given as little information as possible about the case.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940