Good Idea for Bailout

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Good Idea for Bailout

Almost everyone knows by now the "Big 3" US automakers want government money to keep from going under. I heard someone on CNN give a great idea - they can have it if they close all their overseas factories and bring the jobs back here (and sign a contract they can't move them back over. ) Otherwise, they don't get a penny.

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Who will buy the cars

Who will buy the cars then?

Maybe a bailout for the workers to learn mandarin, korean, or japanese? That might save the UAW, but the corporations should probably just go ahead and admit defeat.

It's still going to take decades to get rid of the gas-guzzling pick-ups around my neck of the woods.

Alcohol and pick-ups. Two reasons Tennessee will never conquer the world.

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Biggest problem with

Biggest problem with automakers going out of business is all the jobs that supply them -  then the jobs that are only there because the factories are in town (those factories still in the US - ironically now mostly "Japanese" cars. )

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GM tried to move south to

GM tried to move south to cut wages. Unfortunately, they had to bring too much Detroit with them.

KIA is scheduled to open a new factory in Georgia this next year.

Honda is in Indiana.

Nissan is in Tennessee.

I don't think it is so much the number of workers as it is the 'expense' of the workers they want to cut.

It isn't proven yet, but there is a substantiated rumor that GM used some accounting practices to make it look like Spring Hill lost money and another factory elsewhere made money when in fact Spring Hill profited and the other factory lost its ass.

I'm amazed GM has stayed alive for so long without their Enron buddies. I know I miss them. I made scads of bonus money off of being a 'liquidation point' in the early 'oughts'.

If and when the story breaks, I'll post it.

 

 

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It is not the government's

It is not the government's job to coerce businesses into bringing outsourced jobs back to the US and it is not the government's business to bail out failing auto companies. My recommendation: no bailout for failing, unprofitable businesses and let them send jobs overseas if they want to.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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Yeah, but you're in favor of

Yeah, but you're in favor of unrestrained capitalism. I wouldn't have allowed them to move the jobs overseas in the first place. I'd have an automatic tax of 50% of whatever a company owns to move to a cheaper place within the country and completely outlaw outsourcing. Capitalism needs to be destroyed. By ane means necessary. Seriously if we HAVE to keep it we should have at least a 1000% tariff on any business that outsources (yes I mean taxes equal to 10 times what they sell it for) and they should also have a 99% tax rate on any executive of that company living in the United States and a 99% tax on their profits if they have any sort of company HQ here. If they don't there'd be an additonal 1000% tariff on anything they import.

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For the life of me, I can't

For the life of me, I can't figure out why this bothers you so much, Matt.

Are you driving? Did a car factory close up in those parts?

Don't get me wrong. I hate capitalism too, but 'destroyed by any means necessary' means you would have to be willing to do the dirty work yourself. The best way to destroy it is from within and alongside the ranks of the proletariat.

Frankly, the 'working class' doesn't need help from the 'blog and bitch class'. We need people to excel in present capitalist society while espousing the ideology of production for use rather than profit. This means 'production' and 'use' being equal to each other and 'need' being the function.

It's really starting to weigh upon me that in certain instances the enemy of my enemy's cause can be an enemy to mine own.

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MattShizzle wrote:Yeah, but

MattShizzle wrote:

Yeah, but you're in favor of unrestrained capitalism. I wouldn't have allowed them to move the jobs overseas in the first place. I'd have an automatic tax of 50% of whatever a company owns to move to a cheaper place within the country and completely outlaw outsourcing. Capitalism needs to be destroyed. By ane means necessary. Seriously if we HAVE to keep it we should have at least a 1000% tariff on any business that outsources (yes I mean taxes equal to 10 times what they sell it for) and they should also have a 99% tax rate on any executive of that company living in the United States and a 99% tax on their profits if they have any sort of company HQ here. If they don't there'd be an additonal 1000% tariff on anything they import.

That would simply mean that legal businesses would flee the US. Tax them harshly enough and they will leave to do business in friendlier places. If you wish to tax imports harshly enough then there simply wouldn't be legal imports. You seem to be advocating taxing most businesses out of existence while preventing trade (seeing as most large businesses are international businesses they would qualify for your 10X tariffs). Also let us not forget that capitalism has ways of surviving despite being illegal. Tax international corporations 1000% and you will simply drive them away and have smugglers and a black market illegally maintaining capitalism (as it did in the USSR). The mercantilists tried to prevent non-government approved trade and all they did was make smuggling very profitable while hampering free trade. I think that if your recommendations were followed the same thing would happen again.

I used to work for a small company that designed laptop antennas that had its manufacturing devision is China. Would you drive them out of business with 1000% tariffs, or do you think that letting them make antennas as they see fit benefits us all? I personally would like laptop antenna producers to be allowed to stay in business. I think it is funny to imagine the illegal smuggled laptop antennas that would exist if your ideas were implemented.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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Because the fact that they

Because the fact that they make more money by hurting the poor burns me up. I'd like to see them snipered by people that lost their job. The best way would be through force of law - execute the capitalists. Using bombs would work too. I'd love to see a true revolution where all capitalists are executed. Unfortunately I don't have the physical capability or I would do something like setting bombs off in corporate offices and sniper rifle shooting executives. Unfortunately most Americans are fucking stupid and won't at least do like Europeans and have serious restrictions on Capitalism I think that sort of thing is what needs to be done. I'd love to see all business executives executed and anyone who supports Capitalism in the slightest sent to a reeducation camp for 10 years. Any surviving rich capitalists would have to clean shit up from the floor with their tongues while the former poor jeer them on and kick them. With the former way I said any smugglers caught would have both arms and both legs slowly sawed off while vinegar mixed with salt was poured in the wound, their dicks were cut off and they were forced to eat them and then they were hung in a cage to starve to death. We could also have the coast guard patrol and not let any unapproved items imported and have the military guard all ports and all landable beaches away from ports mined. Anyone cuaght selling illegal imports or in possession of such would also be executed in such manner publically. All domestic products or legal imports would need a registration number to prove they were legal. Pevent that.

 

Realisticly, Darth, there is no way for most people to succed in an extremely unfair system such as Capitalism honestly. The system needs to be destroyed whether via law or violent revolution. Luckilly I have heard some say this present crisis may mean "the end of Capitalism. " We can only hope...

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darth_josh wrote:The best

darth_josh wrote:

The best way to destroy it is from within and alongside the ranks of the proletariat.

I think that the proletariat in the US and Canada (I'm from the US so I will focus on us and our friends up north) is payed well enough to not want to overthrow capitalism. The proletariat that are truly poor enough to want to overthrow capitalism live in third world countries in South America and Asia. They can not overthrow capitalism. Even if they overthrew their governments and took control of their means of production, us US capitalists would be fine. We would simply find new poor people to work in factories (Africa comes to mind and it turns out that Pakistani girls are great at making clothing).

I wonder how one would get the proletariat mobilized when they are currently fat and well entertained. I don't mean to come off sounding smug, or seeming to think that capitalism is unbeatable. I just can not envision convincing upper lower and lower middle class Americans to mobilize and change society. I think we've bribed them well enough to prevent them from rocking to boat.

Just in case it needs to be said: no, I'm not condoning sweatshops and I am not an evil cigar smoking corporate fat cat. I live with three roommates and can barely find enough money to take a girl to a movie. I am poor, at least until I graduate from college. And I understand that my life is very different from a real poor person because I will transition out of this while they will live and die poorer than I am.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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MattShizzle wrote:Because

MattShizzle wrote:

Because the fact that they make more money by hurting the poor burns me up. I'd like to see them snipered by people that lost their job. The best way would be through force of law - execute the capitalists. Using bombs would work too. I'd love to see a true revolution where all capitalists are executed. Unfortunately I don't have the physical capability or I would do something like setting bombs off in corporate offices and sniper rifle shooting executives. Unfortunately most Americans are fucking stupid and won't at least do like Europeans and have serious restrictions on Capitalism I think that sort of thing is what needs to be done. I'd love to see all business executives executed and anyone who supports Capitalism in the slightest sent to a reeducation camp for 10 years. Any surviving rich capitalists would have to clean shit up from the floor with their tongues while the former poor jeer them on and kick them. With the former way I said any smugglers caught would have both arms and both legs slowly sawed off while vinegar mixed with salt was poured in the wound, their dicks were cut off and they were forced to eat them and then they were hung in a cage to starve to death. We could also have the coast guard patrol and not let any unapproved items imported and have the military guard all ports and all landable beaches away from ports mined. Anyone cuaght selling illegal imports or in possession of such would also be executed in such manner publically. All domestic products or legal imports would need a registration number to prove they were legal. Pevent that.

Anyone want to start a pool on when this one shows up on "FSTDT"?


 

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MattShizzle wrote:Because

MattShizzle wrote:

Because the fact that they make more money by hurting the poor burns me up. I'd like to see them snipered by people that lost their job. The best way would be through force of law - execute the capitalists. Using bombs would work too. I'd love to see a true revolution where all capitalists are executed. Unfortunately I don't have the physical capability or I would do something like setting bombs off in corporate offices and sniper rifle shooting executives. Unfortunately most Americans are fucking stupid and won't at least do like Europeans and have serious restrictions on Capitalism I think that sort of thing is what needs to be done. I'd love to see all business executives executed and anyone who supports Capitalism in the slightest sent to a reeducation camp for 10 years. Any surviving rich capitalists would have to clean shit up from the floor with their tongues while the former poor jeer them on and kick them. With the former way I said any smugglers caught would have both arms and both legs slowly sawed off while vinegar mixed with salt was poured in the wound, their dicks were cut off and they were forced to eat them and then they were hung in a cage to starve to death. We could also have the coast guard patrol and not let any unapproved items imported and have the military guard all ports and all landable beaches away from ports mined. Anyone cuaght selling illegal imports or in possession of such would also be executed in such manner publically. All domestic products or legal imports would need a registration number to prove they were legal. Pevent that.

 

Realisticly, Darth, there is no way for most people to succed in an extremely unfair system such as Capitalism honestly. The system needs to be destroyed whether via law or violent revolution. Luckilly I have heard some say this present crisis may mean "the end of Capitalism. " We can only hope...

Ugh, Matt. Come on, man. This is now probably going to be uploaded onto FSTDT. And worse yet, most of the commenters will think that you are some sort of Poe capitalist. Also: the British tried brutalizing smugglers, the smugglers reacted by brutalizing customs officials. And really Matt: you would torture someone to death for smuggling in, lets say, antennas made in China by a US owned factory? You would torture my ex-coworkers to death for wanting to make antennas in China? It will take subtly to overthrow capitalism. You can't say that you will saw limbs off as a punishment for illegal trading. That just makes non-capitalists look crazy.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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I think that would be a good

I think that would be a good idea. If they brutalize our officials we drop napalm or nuclear weapons wherever the smugglers are.  I would. I would have long ago tortured to death the factory owners for moving overseas. I also like the idea of strongly increasing the navy and blocking off all but allowed trade in. If enough problems happen in my scenario we also could nuke/napalm where the items are manufactured or torture to death every single member of anyones' family who is known to be involved in smuggling and if we capture them we saw off 1 finger a day, then 1 toe a day, then 1 hand, then 1 foot, than an arm, thaen a  leg, then gouge out an eye cut off genitals, etc 1 per day and pour salt, vinegar and hot sauce mixed into the wound each day on live tv then let them slowly starve. We'd do whatever it takes to make the idea of whatever little money could be made by smuggling punished by such a horrible way (and remember anyone caught owning smuggled items the same way - how hard would it be to trace these antennas by their signal and if isn't an officially registered, non-foreign made one the person using is tortured to death publicly) that it wouldn't be done. Puting into a tree shredder feet first on live tv would also work.

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So you really do advocate

So you really do advocate torturing my ex-coworkers to death for importing foreign made antennas from US owned Chinese factories.

Should I get my fingers and penis cut off for aiding them in international trade? Should my parents and my grandfather be tortured to death for working for companies that have overseas production? Would you cut my roommate's fingers off for working for a multinational corporation? And you can't nuke smugglers and black market traders; they would be mixed in with the general population. They would be just like modern drug dealers: US citizens living in our cities and selling people the things that they want.

I hate to say it, but you are a better proponent of the free market than I am. People will ignore me as just being some libertarian college student. But people will read your rants and think that non-capitalists are scary and will kill us and our family members if they get the chance. Like I said earlier: use subtly or you will get nowhere. Sound reasonable and people will listen to you. Sound crazy and people will listen to free market proponents instead.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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Yes, people should be

Yes, people should be tortured to death if they ignore the warnings against violating smuggling laws. I meant nuking the place where the smuggled items are produced. Anyone in favor of any free market policies should spend 10 years in a reeducation camp. I think people should be tortured to death for violating anti-free trade policies. Drug dealers can't get more than life in a relatively nice US Prison. If anyone viloating the anti-free trade law had their fingers and toes slowly cut off and under vinegar and salt (and their hands and feet later and then their arms and legs.) That is the most generous I could possibly deal with capitalists. I doubt there'd be so many - especially if everyone had a minimum level of living.

 

Anyway Libertarianism is a horrible idea, especially for independant people. Death to LIbertarianism!

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Seriously Matt, what the

Quote:
and anyone who supports Capitalism in the slightest sent to a reeducation camp for 10 years.

Seriously Matt, what the fuck?! You profess to support socialism and not fascism. How the fuck is this not fascism?!

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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MattShizzle wrote:they can

MattShizzle wrote:
they can have it if they close all their overseas factories and bring the jobs back here (and sign a contract they can't move them back over. ) Otherwise, they don't get a penny.
What about Canada?  The Big 3 employ, directly or indirectly, most of my family.

The amount of ignorance in that comment, however, makes it ridiculously easy to dismiss.  These companies aren't only US companies nor do they just simply operate satellite facilities in other countries for cheap labour.  There are arms, divisions, daughter companies and other auto brands that these companies own.  For instance: Ford Motor Company of Canada, Ltmd, Volvo Cars, Mazda, Aston Martin.  These are all owned by Ford Motor Company or are companies in which Ford owns shares.  Ford Motor Company is a multinational corporation that employs a quarter million people internationally.  It isn't feasible for such a company to close factories and 'bring the jobs back' to the US.  Especially when the jobs were never in the US to begin with.

I don't necessarily agree with a bailout, not even what the Government of Canada is being asked for, but why would a proposed stipulation of such a payment be to close foreign operations when these form a significant basis of revenue for the corporation?  Or do the cars produced by Volvo Cars of Sweden make up a such a significant amount of the cars bought by Americans such that they should be manufactured in America by Americans?

Get real.

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Thinking the 1st world can

Thinking the 1st world can compete  with the 2nd/3rd world in manufacturing is absurd, most people at least in Europe have accepted that a long time ago.

The future is the 1st world is high technology, design, services you arent going to be able compete with conveyor belt production leave that to the poorer parts of the world who earn far less.

If China and India can produce something cheaper and at the same quality rather than at home I'm buying it, sod petty nationalism. Everyone gains bar the uneducated in the 1st world who lets face don't care as they are all chrisitan fundies who think the world is going to end soon anyway Smiling

 

 


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I'd say a good compromise

I'd say a good compromise would be no US company can produce anything in countries that don't have laws about fair labor practices. That means Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia would be OK but not places where they pay pennies per hour.

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MattShizzle wrote:I'd say a

MattShizzle wrote:

I'd say a good compromise would be no US company can produce anything in countries that don't have laws about fair labor practices. That means Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia would be OK but not places where they pay pennies per hour.

 

That would kill economic development in the third world. If we essentially embargo all third world countries for having low wages for workers, then they will never accumulate capital and develop their economies. Paying them (even paying them low wages) funnels US money in their economy and invigorates it. If you want to harm the third world, then forbid US companies form trading with it and hiring its labor.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
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MattShizzle wrote:I'd say a

MattShizzle wrote:

I'd say a good compromise would be no US company can produce anything in countries that don't have laws about fair labor practices. That means Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia would be OK but not places where they pay pennies per hour.

 

How exactly do you define 'fair labOur practices', most Europeans would consider American worker practices to be not far of 3rd world. Slave like holiday (its a mininum legal holidays of between 20 and 35 days here)  and sick pay, not being able to afford to be sick due to lack of insurance, extreme hours.

 

Of course I'm sure most Americans probably think Europeans are a bunch of socialist layabouts but you see the problem 'fair' is highly subjective

 

 


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Well, obviously the US is

Well, obviously the US is severely fucked up in terms of how businesses have nowhere close to the regulation they should.

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Matt, I love you to death,

Matt, I love you to death, and you know I've always respectfully disagreed with you on this issue, but you come off like a raving nut in this thread. Just saying man.

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Yellow_Number_Five

Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

Matt, I love you to death, and you know I've always respectfully disagreed with you on this issue, but you come off like a raving nut in this thread. Just saying man.

 

ROFLMAO

 

Just THIS THREAD???!!!

All that I ask is that people consider the individual as just tht; an individual. The political ideology of socialism has just as many varying individuals espousing it as any other ideology does.

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darth_josh wrote:the

darth_josh wrote:

the ideology of production for use rather than profit. This means 'production' and 'use' being equal to each other and 'need' being the function.

thank you!  thaaaaank you!

[pointing]

MARXISM!  THIS IS MARXISM OVER HERE!  EVERYBODY!

THIS IS WHAT MARXISM IS!

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I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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darth_josh wrote:The

darth_josh wrote:

The political ideology of socialism has just as many varying individuals espousing it as any other ideology does.

Oh, I know. I've been a bit embarassed by a few people who claimed to share my ideology as well.

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I know you think it's your

I know you think it's your Aspergers or whatever that keeps you from meeting people but seriously Matt... these kind of thoughts are just not sane and I don't just mean they aren't in line with the majority - they are ludicrous.  Please don't tell me you seriously mean the only thing that is keeping you from becoming a sniper is your physical inability to do so.


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Something needs to be done

Something needs to be done to change the way shit is done in this country.


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Yellow_Number_Five

Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

The political ideology of socialism has just as many varying individuals espousing it as any other ideology does.

Oh, I know. I've been a bit embarassed by a few people who claimed to share my ideology as well.

LOL. Does that include sane atheists that are also anti-libertarian socialists?

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darth_josh wrote:Who will

darth_josh wrote:

Who will buy the cars then?

Maybe a bailout for the workers to learn mandarin, korean, or japanese? That might save the UAW, but the corporations should probably just go ahead and admit defeat.

It's still going to take decades to get rid of the gas-guzzling pick-ups around my neck of the woods.

Alcohol and pick-ups. Two reasons Tennessee will never conquer the world.

LOL, shut up I owned a pick up, all be it a Izuzu which had excelent  gas mileage, and I do live in a trailer and love beer. It actually had better gas mileage with that pick up than the tank of a van I drive now because my mother needs the handicap lift. It bottems out on a twig, and it makes Hummers look like hybrids.  It takes two hours to merge into traffic.

Some of us godless rednecks don't sport a southern accent, but we do know how to live cheap. I know Bob Spence and HB will get this post, even if others are miffed by it.

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Brian37 wrote:darth_josh

Brian37 wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

Who will buy the cars then?

Maybe a bailout for the workers to learn mandarin, korean, or japanese? That might save the UAW, but the corporations should probably just go ahead and admit defeat.

It's still going to take decades to get rid of the gas-guzzling pick-ups around my neck of the woods.

Alcohol and pick-ups. Two reasons Tennessee will never conquer the world.

LOL, shut up I owned a pick up, all be it a Izuzu which had excelent  gas mileage, and I do live in a trailer and love beer. It actually had better gas mileage with that pick up than the tank of a van I drive now because my mother needs the handicap lift. It bottems out on a twig, and it makes Hummers look like hybrids.  It takes two hours to merge into traffic.

Some of us godless rednecks don't sport a southern accent, but we do know how to live cheap. I know Bob Spence and HB will get this post, even if others are miffed by it.

 

The one time I will not say 'No true scotsman' to my wife is when she declares that I am not a true redneck. lol.

I'll be slashing the hell out of bills in January. The kids will get Blue Monday money, but my regular bills are getting lowered.

Economic downturn means these people have been counting on me to continue spending what I have or to increase. Soooo, what do I do? The opposite. I have found at least $200 per month in things which my family has agreed are unnecessary. Call it 'piling on'.

If it weren't for the knee then I'd already be one of the 'non-spenders' that the rich are blaming for their troubles. Too much for medical this year.

Interesting how some rich people cry about paying the most in taxes because it's their hard earned money, but when people stop buying their crap they whine about not making as much as last year because consumers are being thrifty.

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I still think so much money

I still think so much money being concentrated at the top so the poor and middle class didn't have it to spend are a big reason for the recession. Blame Bush and the Rethuglicans for their anti-progressive and anti-labor policies.

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MattShizzle wrote:I still

MattShizzle wrote:

I still think so much money being concentrated at the top so the poor and middle class didn't have it to spend are a big reason for the recession. Blame Bush and the Rethuglicans for their anti-progressive and anti-labor policies.

Nahhh. I don't blame individuals. I blame the system; the ideology. In this system, everyone wants to get richer (poor included) and sometimes it is at 'any means necessary'.

Those people aren't the cause, they are a symptom. Recently, the nicer libertarians have been referencing human nature as a reason for capitalism. Granted, someone had to have made the system, but that is no excuse for the perpetuation of the system.

That's why Paulson wanted to stop the bank bailouts. The banks saw it as an opportunity to get some money to buy each other because of the tax loophole of merger and acquisition that the treasury enabled.

That Bank of America bought Merrill Lynch before the TARP and then got TARP money was no mistake or lucky coincidence. They get the tax break, the company, and the secured capital all together. I guarantee you they are waiting for this recession to ease slightly next year and you'll see them put ML up for sale and use the profits of the sale to pay on the TARP money dividend to the government.

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MattShizzle wrote:Something

MattShizzle wrote:

Something needs to be done to change the way shit is done in this country.

Torturing executives and slaughtering the rich isn't the answer.


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Quote:Because the fact that

Quote:
Because the fact that they make more money by hurting the poor burns me up. I'd like to see them snipered by people that lost their job. The best way would be through force of law - execute the capitalists. Using bombs would work too. I'd love to see a true revolution where all capitalists are executed. Unfortunately I don't have the physical capability or I would do something like setting bombs off in corporate offices and sniper rifle shooting executives. Unfortunately most Americans are fucking stupid and won't at least do like Europeans and have serious restrictions on Capitalism I think that sort of thing is what needs to be done. I'd love to see all business executives executed and anyone who supports Capitalism in the slightest sent to a reeducation camp for 10 years. Any surviving rich capitalists would have to clean shit up from the floor with their tongues while the former poor jeer them on and kick them. With the former way I said any smugglers caught would have both arms and both legs slowly sawed off while vinegar mixed with salt was poured in the wound, their dicks were cut off and they were forced to eat them and then they were hung in a cage to starve to death. We could also have the coast guard patrol and not let any unapproved items imported and have the military guard all ports and all landable beaches away from ports mined. Anyone cuaght selling illegal imports or in possession of such would also be executed in such manner publically. All domestic products or legal imports would need a registration number to prove they were legal. Pevent that.

Quote:
I think that would be a good idea. If they brutalize our officials we drop napalm or nuclear weapons wherever the smugglers are.  I would. I would have long ago tortured to death the factory owners for moving overseas. I also like the idea of strongly increasing the navy and blocking off all but allowed trade in. If enough problems happen in my scenario we also could nuke/napalm where the items are manufactured or torture to death every single member of anyones' family who is known to be involved in smuggling and if we capture them we saw off 1 finger a day, then 1 toe a day, then 1 hand, then 1 foot, than an arm, thaen a  leg, then gouge out an eye cut off genitals, etc 1 per day and pour salt, vinegar and hot sauce mixed into the wound each day on live tv then let them slowly starve. We'd do whatever it takes to make the idea of whatever little money could be made by smuggling punished by such a horrible way (and remember anyone caught owning smuggled items the same way - how hard would it be to trace these antennas by their signal and if isn't an officially registered, non-foreign made one the person using is tortured to death publicly) that it wouldn't be done. Puting into a tree shredder feet first on live tv would also work.

Quote:
Yes, people should be tortured to death if they ignore the warnings against violating smuggling laws. I meant nuking the place where the smuggled items are produced. Anyone in favor of any free market policies should spend 10 years in a reeducation camp. I think people should be tortured to death for violating anti-free trade policies. Drug dealers can't get more than life in a relatively nice US Prison. If anyone viloating the anti-free trade law had their fingers and toes slowly cut off and under vinegar and salt (and their hands and feet later and then their arms and legs.) That is the most generous I could possibly deal with capitalists. I doubt there'd be so many - especially if everyone had a minimum level of living.

Matt, a few things:

 

My first (and nicest) comment is that you don't appear to have a coherent idea of what you actually want. At first you claim to want to champion for the poor, but then you claim that you want the U.S. to forcibly steal commodities from poorer countries, annihilating any nation that doesn't surrender it's goods via nuclear weaponry, while giving nothing back to them.

 

My next comment is that this kind of talk is something that nobody needs to hear nor wants to hear. If you want to go out and kill people, well, I guess that's your problem; we don't need it voiced on the boards, and if you want to be able to continue participating on these board you're going to have to learn how to excercize some self-control. Laying-out in gruesome detail the painful fates you wish upon corporate executives is inappropriate in these forums.

 

My last (and meanest) comment is that this is the forum of the RRS website; this is not 'MattShizzle's Therapy Couch', 'MattShizzle's Personal Spotlight' or 'MattShizzle's Lone Refuge for Insane Rambling'. If you only visit this website to get attention, via saying outrageous things and making suicide threats, you really need to re-consider your membership here. Frankly, there are many, many people who have lost patience with having to confront another one of your graphic allusions to violence just because you need someone to talk to.

If you constantly need everyone to have MattShizzle on their radar, you may get your wish. But I'm not so sure you'll enjoy the inevitable consequences.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


MattShizzle
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Where's the rule saying

Where's the rule saying that? Just because you're a mod doesn't mean you get to be a nazi that runs everything. I'm tired of the power hungry assholes being mods thinking that they're Brian.

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Quote:Where's the rule

Quote:
Where's the rule saying that?

Quote:
===========================
2. Rules & Conventions.
===========================

The moderators are the sole arbitrators of the House Rules and will pass judgment on a case-by-case basis. Community members can contact a mod if they think the rules should be enhanced or altered in some way.

Quote:
2.3. Threats.
Threats are totally unacceptable and offenders may be exiled without warning at the moderators' discretion.

Right there, Matt. Those are the rules that say that.

Quote:
Just because you're a mod doesn't mean you get to be a nazi that runs everything. I'm tired of the power hungry assholes being mods thinking that they're Brian.

Matt, I'm being frank and open about this for your own benefit. A fascist would only be interested in making an example out of you and getting rid of you.

The overwhelming consensus, among site moderators, site owners and site users alike, is that it is your behavior - not that of any of the alleged 'power hungry assholes' - that needs to demonstrate a dramatic change, and in no uncertain terms. Compared to what some have discussed in private about what you've written here and elsewhere on the forums, what I've said is rather tepid.

You're free to do as you like. I'm just trying to caution you that you may not enjoy the repurcussions that arise from constantly steering down this road.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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It's not a threat if I'm

It's not a threat if I'm saying that's what the law should be.  Would anyone have a problem if I said this is what should happen to child molestors rather than corporate executives? Frankly I think corporate executives are worse than child molestors - child molestors harm children through their actions for a short period of time - corporate executives harm children and adults much more throughout their lifetime. I honestly don't think any punishment would come anywhere close to being severe enough for the average corporate executive (short of if the Christian hell were real.) I see the robber baron types as being as bad as Nazis. Yeah, I realize douchebags can consider literally anything a threat. That 1st part should be gotten rid of as it allows too much leeway. The owners of the site are not idiots and only idiots or the paranoid would consider anything not along the lines of "I'm going to come to your house and kill you" as a threat.

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MattShizzle wrote:Where's

MattShizzle wrote:

Where's the rule saying that? Just because you're a mod doesn't mean you get to be a nazi that runs everything. I'm tired of the power hungry assholes being mods thinking that they're Brian.

 

 

That's 2.

I told you in the PM.

We (the mods) are not power hungry assholes. What kind of dumbfuck thinks there is 'power' to simply deleting spam or trying to reason with violently psychotic posters for nothing gained individually or as a whole???

Honestly, Matt. Think about how really fucking dumb that sounds.

What confounds me the most is that you've been here this long and even when you're sane you throw out more fallacies than the theists. Not everything is 'Nazis' and I know who I am despite what you think I'm thinking.

The only thing that could top the MattShizzle obnoxiousness now, in my opinion, is if you called it a 'cult' conspiracy.

 

 

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Some mods are obviously

Some mods are obviously power hungry assholes, especially when they have a problem with stuff that Brian personally told me in a phone call he has no problem with. People will take power in any shape and form they can get it sometimes even if it doesn't give them monetary or physical benefit - just for the sake of having power over others.

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MattShizzle wrote:Some mods

MattShizzle wrote:

Some mods are obviously power hungry assholes, especially when they have a problem with stuff that Brian personally told me in a phone call he has no problem with. People will take power in any shape and form they can get it sometimes even if it doesn't give them monetary or physical benefit - just for the sake of having power over others.

Really, Matt?  Are you sure that's what Brian said?   I spoke to both you and Brian after that phone call and I think it was pretty clear at that time that you needed to take it down a notch.  Just chill.  There's more intellectual and convincing ways of making your political points - you'd be taken more seriously too.


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He told me as long as I

He told me as long as I didn't go off on other atheists on the site I was OK with what I was doing.


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Quote:Some mods are

Quote:
Some mods are obviously power hungry assholes, especially when they have a problem with stuff that Brian personally told me in a phone call he has no problem with. People will take power in any shape and form they can get it sometimes even if it doesn't give them monetary or physical benefit - just for the sake of having power over others.

Matt, I'm occassionally in the market for some self-improvement:

If my two prior posts in this thread were so nasty, so fascist and so manipulative, would please elaborate on how they came across that way? If you provide some constructive criticism, perhaps I'll learn to incorporate that into future mediations.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Not so much you. You know I

Not so much you. You know I agree with you on a lot Kevin. I was talking more in general.


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See, Matt? A cooler head

See, Matt? A cooler head prevails.

 

Just try to keep that in mind.

(It's something I have to work-on myself)

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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I was more trying to point

I was more trying to point out in general that people will seek power even if it doesn't give them any particular material benefit - regardless of what Darth posted. Any scientists have a link to a study showing this?

I'm not one to back down from anyone. And I feel Capitalism is at least as bad as religion if not worse.

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I see your Godwin’s Law and raise you some 1984

I guess that means that the Nazis and Hitler weren’t threatening the Jews, after all, they were just saying what the law should be, and then enforcing the law. Sorry, but when someone says that it should not only be allowed but required that people torture you to death for something, that’s a threat, plain and simple. The fact that the law says that if you kill someone you go to prison, that’s a threat. The Christian ‘believe or burn’ idea, that’s a threat. Otherwise I guess Christian Fundamentalists saying Atheists don’t have a right to live or should just shut up and not be allowed to speak and trying to make it the law aren’t threatening us at all. After all, they’re just saying what the law should be, not actually threatening to do that to us.

Pardon me if I find that suspect.
Scratch that, Pardon me if I find that retarded.

Frankly Matt, your Doublethink is starting to become intriguing. You openly claim that people should not be allowed to own guns, and yet want Business owners to be sniped by the people they lay off. You claim murder is wrong, yet prescribe the most abominable tortures, ultimately ending in death, and in some cases the use of nuclear warfare against low level smugglers, because that wouldn’t kill the planet, and all without ever being able to put together a reasonably coherent argument for why the ‘Capitalist Scum’ deserve this treatment.
Reconcile these.

You have an interesting house of cards of a belief system, so cunningly built in the middle of a marsh. Tell me, how do you (you here meaning your hypothetical dystopia) intend to pay for the blockade and the mines you so desperately want to line our border with? Explain to me how closing our borders to the imports that allow us to have cheap food and cars and clothing and everything will not collapse the economy, rend the country in twain, and lead to mass poverty hunger and half the population dying while the other half gets to live in whatever dictatorships rise up from the ashes and become veritable lepers on the edge of the world.

Your comparison of child molesters to corporate executives is utterly retarded. For starters, children are too young to know better, and you actually can decide to not serve the capitalists. It’s pretty easy, provided you actually have some marketable talent. You whine and whine about Capitalists ‘exploiting’ the workers of the world, but here’s the thing; The Capitalists wouldn’t be able to ‘exploit’ them without their consent at some level. Hate to break it to you, but the Capitalists actually don’t have some secret Gestapo to enforce their will, they enforce it quite well enough simply by playing on the people’s desires. If you don’t like that, it’s not the Capitalists that are who you should be directing your anger at, but the stupid workers of the world who cannot realize what is going on right in front of them.

By the way, I’m still waiting for responses on my last three posts to you.

Furthermore, I consider your comments to be threats, explain how I am a ‘douchebag’.

You are not advocating justice, you are advocating giving the slaves the whips and letting them play at being the masters.

And finally, I’m sorry if this sounds mean, but once someone starts advocating what you are advocating, the gloves come off and I become a mean person.

Good Day Sir.

When you say it like that you make it sound so Sinister...


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MattShizzle wrote:I was more

MattShizzle wrote:

I was more trying to point out in general that people will seek power even if it doesn't give them any particular material benefit - regardless of what Darth posted. Any scientists have a link to a study showing this?

I'm not one to back down from anyone. And I feel Capitalism is at least as bad as religion if not worse.

I think violence and delusion are more dangerous than either of those.

What power? That's my question, Matt. What power?

The power to listen to your stuff?

Tell me what power I have that warrants this? The power to listen and talk to the other mods without someone posting 'ban them now' or 'give them the asshat avatar' or 'I wish there was an ignore function'?

 

 

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The power to "warn" someone

The power to "warn" someone or to edit threads. Siseph is an asshat that obviously has a problem with me and is stalking me thorughout the site. Explain how anyone can function in society nowadays without bowing down to the capitalists? People need to eat. Capitalists should be treated as the most vile creatures who ever crawled upon the surface of the Earth and who's utter annihalation would be a great benefit to all mankind.

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MattShizzle wrote:The power

MattShizzle wrote:
The power to "warn" someone or to edit threads. Siseph is an asshat that obviously has a problem with me and is stalking me thorughout the site. Explain how anyone can function in society nowadays without bowing down to the capitalists? People need to eat. Capitalists should be treated as the most vile creatures who ever crawled upon the surface of the Earth and who's utter annihalation would be a great benefit to all mankind.

As someone who has been a business owner and had folks work for me, and as someone who invested in stocks and bonds (and one scary moment on the futures market) I have to say:

Thank you for calling me vile and calling for my extermination.

Also, thanks a bunch for getting a couple of your insane murderous rants up on FSTDT; it really helps the RRS look like a rational lot.

It would be a great idea to re-think your position on how to deal with an ideology you don't agree with. I mean, if you find socialism or communism your cup of tea, that's cool. But the torch and pitchfork really need to go.

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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Quote:Siseph is an asshat

Quote:
Siseph is an asshat that obviously has a problem with me and is stalking me thorughout the site.

Matt, you don't notice a trend here that has a common denominator? Anyone who ever disagrees with you or even so much as politely asks you to change your tone is an 'asshat who has problems with you'. When a vast majority of the users here claim that they have a problem with content like what you've showcased here, do you think perhaps that - rather than indicating that everyone around you is a jerk - this may be a pretty good indicator, in fact, that there is a problem with what you've posted?

Just take a small step back and think about that for a moment.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940