Libertarianism and the Left
Offline I have found an article that may be of interest to libertarians on this site. I believe earlier on this forum I mentioned that, oddly, I found myself more in line with leftists on political matters than the right. StumbleUpon has given me an article on this matter: http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory54.html
While I think the author is far too optimistic about our ability to convince leftists that they are wrong on certain matters and he exaggerates their lack of understanding of economics, he has summed up many of the things I have been thinking about leftists quite nicely. I realize that leftists are not friendly towards libertarianism for the most part, and some are hard core statists, but they do seem to generally lack the right's zeal for authoritarianism. I was wondering if other libertarians here think along these lines, and also whether leftists think that this author or myself are anywhere close to approximating their political leanings.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
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Well then why don't all the commies form a commune and demonstrate to the world a sustainable communist society?
There are communes. Type 'commune' into google to find out more about them. But communism is so unpopular that they are quite small. Communes function well, but I doubt that communism would work on a world or even a nation wide scale. They can make small working communities, but the true test would be for them to make part of the world communist and see how that turns out.
Even if the world was composed mostly of small communes, some communities would be capitalistic. Capitalistic communities would compete with communes and in all likelihood force communes to also be capitalistic. If there is one thing capitalism is good at, that is forcing others to embrace it. Though this is all speculation until (if) a significant portion of the world embraces communism.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
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Offline I doubt it. The non-capitalist ones if they were smart would refuse to trade anything with the capitalist ones and therefore force THEM out of capitalism.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
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EXC wrote:Well then why don't all the commies form a commune and demonstrate to the world a sustainable communist society?
There are communes. Type 'commune' into google to find out more about them. But communism is so unpopular that they are quite small. Communes function well, but I doubt that communism would work on a world or even a nation wide scale. They can make small working communities, but the true test would be for them to make part of the world communist and see how that turns out.
Even if the world was composed mostly of small communes, some communities would be capitalistic. Capitalistic communities would compete with communes and in all likelihood force communes to also be capitalistic. If there is one thing capitalism is good at, that is forcing others to embrace it. Though this is all speculation until (if) a significant portion of the world embraces communism.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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er... ? Wow, are you really not able to distinguish tacitly socialistic policy from forceful revolutionary uprising or do you realise how far from the subject of left politics you have actually strayed into propagandistic name-calling.
Steal? That is not a very objective charge to lay against communism, stealing is capitalism's business in the sense that stealing presupposes ownership and ownership presupposes capitalism. Is capitalism a socio-political model or an absolute doctrine of truth? If it's the former then to what end are people not entitled to act outside of it? If it's the latter, are you starting a new religion?
As for killing, I guess you'd be surprised what can be achieved without bloodshed.
You need only look a little further back to see the killing in the name of capitalism, but I guess it was kosher then, right?
Ahh I see you lke your propaganda cheesy and with a second-hand smell, no accounting for taste I suppose.
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That's why I am not a capitalist, I'm a rationalist. I agree that ownership over land, minerals, oil, etc... is a problem with capitalism because an individual did not work to produce these commodities that came with the earth. But communist doctrine does not distinguish this. So they want to have a revolution that indiscrimately steals wealth from all who have honestly worked hard and invested.
The part of capitalism that says individuals must be allowed to enjoy the fruits of their own labor and investment is perfectly sound and has been demonstrated to be the only way to have a sustainable functioning economy. If you hold to "from each according to his need", this is like a religious doctrine, unsupported by the facts of how the world really works. But commies, hold to this with religious fervor.
Well then why don't all the commies form a commune and demonstrate to the world a sustainable communist society? Since rationalists are skeptical people, shouldn't you do an experiment with the hard core commies and show us all how an economy can function when people are rewarded based upon what they "need" rather they value of what they produce. The commies won't do this because we all know what the result would be, everyone living in poverty, the most productive workers trying to escape.
If you can do demonstration, I'll come around and become a commie. When the theist show me hard evidence that prayer works and evolution is a lie, I become a theist. But, I'm not holding my breath for either to occur.
I think people kill in the name of stealing for themselves. So if we had a communist utopia, we'd have no more thieves, murderers and corrupt government officials? Oh please. People steal cause they can steal, has nothing to do with anything except some people are thieves.
Well if it's not an opiate, then you and like minded people can do an experiment to show us how to do communism right. Otherwise why shouldn't a rational person be highly sceptical?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen