My Beliefs [Trollville]

Arj
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My Beliefs [Trollville]

I'm new here and I just wanted to introduce myself. I do not adhere to the belief of Karma, any "perilous missions" to rescue humanity on behalf of a particular deity, superstitions, dogma, Law of Attraction, Ego, Satan, Christ, or God; yet I do believe in the existence of an After Life, reincarnation, and spirit beings. All the drama, chaos, and violence in the world can be attributed to the unawareness of one's own subjectivity. I later discovered that Albert Ellis, grandfather of Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT), illustrated this philosophy through his work so I am also a big fan of his.

 

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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Arj wrote:MattShizzle

Arj wrote:

MattShizzle wrote:

If you are not an atheist, what particular god or gods do you believe exist?

I don't believe in any gods. I'm a free thinker. In fact I thought this WAS a free thinker forum. I wouldn't consider myself an atheist.

FREE THINKER - Someone who, along with a moral compass, can investigate, analyze and reflect on a subject without being swayed by all of the propaganda. Often impersonated by people whose latest position is based on whoever is in power at the moment or on the results of the latest poll. A Free Thinker is able to make his own decisions based on all of the data available and not worry about what the “mainstream” may be reportedly saying this week.

 

I'm sure there are other definitions but the only ones I've found have said basically the same thing. Anyway, that would basically describe my rational. That's y I don't give a fuck about what other people said about my beliefs. I can think for myself. Thanks, but no thanks.

By your definition, no one can be a free thinker because they are guided by a moral compass. Not saying that's a bad thing but your definition of freethought keeps you or anyone else from being a freethinker.

It's a little easier to call freethought what it is - not being bound by dogma and able to evaluate all sides of an issue. Your problem seems to be that you want to have your side of the issue without letting anyone evaluate it. Afraid you might be mistaken and feel safer inside your self made dogma?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Arj
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No it's not. You don't have

No it's not. You don't have to rationalize life in dualistic terms (which is the epitome of morality). That's what my thread about non-dualism was about. Free thought is quite feasible....at least for ME anyways.

 

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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Arj wrote:Well then, you

Arj wrote:
Well then, you need to catch up on your studies or read my sig.
You signature doesn't actually articulate at all what you think think 'radical atheism' means.  As far as I've ever encountered the term it has turned out to be meaningless.  So, would you pelase articulate what you think 'radical atheism' is?

Quote:
It was an analogy for the argument you are using and I see I have reason to repeat myself.
Whoa!
thomathy wrote:
If you don't care what anyone thinks about your beliefs, then why are you here and why did you post them in your introduction?  If you only wanted to introduce yourself, you could have done so in a number of other ways that wouldn't have put beliefs you don't want to talk about in the spotlight.
That's what I wrote and you analogized me with an asshole trying to make you look like one.  Except, I don't see how I'm being an asshole and I wasn't trying to make you look like one.  And, I hadn't presented an argument.  What I did was ask you a question that was contingent on whether or not it's true that you don't want your beliefs questioned.  It is, apparently, true.  I then provided a suggestion based on the truth of the antecedent in my 'if, then' question, namely, that if you don't care what others think of your beliefs you could have introduced yourself in a number of ways that didn't include a rundown of your beliefs.  That is not an argument, Arj.  Oh, and don't bother answering that question.

Quote:
It depends on what it was. I will see if it's worth my time. If it's about debating my beliefs then the answer is no.
Well, I'll just list the questions I've asked you and intended to be answered that you haven't answered (all of which were in the posts of mine to which you responded... did you even read the whole of my posts?).

  1. What is it that you do want to discuss here? 
  2. Is it clear yet that these forums cover a wide range of topics?
  3. What is, exactly, the difference between your beliefs and theirs? (Which is of particular interest now considering your definition of freethinker)
  4. How, exactly, did you come to be atheist? ((You are an atheist if you do not believe in god(s))
  5. Why are you still here?
  6. [W]ould you pelase articulate what you think 'radical atheism' is?

 

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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Arj wrote:No it's not. You

Arj wrote:

No it's not. You don't have to rationalize life in dualistic terms (which is the epitome of morality). That's what my thread about non-dualism was about. Free thought is quite feasible....at least for ME anyways.

 

You just switch your definition of freethought to fit what you need at the time? You don't rationalize life in dualistic terms but you use your sense of right and wrong to evaluate information? That's an awfully dualistic non-dualistic system you have there.

Or is this a claim of being nondogmatic while clinging tenaciously to what you;ve been told is correct?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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 Arj wrote:To be a

 

Arj wrote:
To be a freethinker means you don't have any attachments to that type of philosophy so your point is irrelevant. You also have to have THIS type of mentality and it is QUITE OBVIOUS that Atheists do not.

Arj has made it fairly obvious that he (oops she, I forgot again.) knows very little.

In fact, don't bother asking her to define radical atheism anymore because she obviously doesn't even know the definition of the word atheist.

She said she didn't believe in any Gods. Thus, by definition, she is an atheist. However, she denies that she is an atheist because she thinks there is some invisible holy book of atheist doctrines. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote: Arj

butterbattle wrote:

 

Arj wrote:
To be a freethinker means you don't have any attachments to that type of philosophy so your point is irrelevant. You also have to have THIS type of mentality and it is QUITE OBVIOUS that Atheists do not.

Arj has made it fairly obvious that he (oops she, I forgot again.) knows very little.

In fact, don't bother asking her to define radical atheism anymore because she obviously doesn't even know the definition of the word atheist.

She said she didn't believe in any Gods. Thus, by definition, she is an atheist. However, she denies that she is an atheist because she thinks there is some invisible holy book of atheist doctrines. 

 

Arj would be, in that case, very mistaken.  Arj, you can take me up on the opportunity to explain yourself, if you like.  It would really clear the air.


 

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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Arj, do you have some

Arj, do you have some favorite mentors, philosophers, labels, etc that align with your beliefs? .... I have quite a few. Most people consider themselves "freethinkers", so can you add to that?

As I read you, you basically say you believe in an immaterial, self conscience aware something, but don't want to debate about it. Is that correct? If so, okay, but why not?

  This thread seems train wrecked. RRS is "primarily" a debate site. Atheists obviously debate, discuss, rant, joke amoung themselves too. RRS is a cool site, especially when you get to know the regulars, theists included.


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What the hell has

What the hell has "rationaliz[ing] life in dualistic terms" got to do with morality?? Morality is about having some sort of code of ethics, guidelines about how we deal with other people, a sense that certain classes of action are generally approved ('good') and others disapproved ('bad').

Belief that the mind or a 'soul' exists in some separate reality from the material/physical, ie 'dualism', may well affect in some way how you evaluate what is 'good' and 'bad', altho I don't see immediately any straightforward connection.

Why do consider that raising questions about what we see as problematic aspects of your beliefs as equivalent to being an asshole, to not respecting your right to hold to those beliefs. When someone in ordinary conversation mentions what they think about something, what is so objectionable about the other person commenting that they think the first person may be wrong. Is this being a radical skeptic?

Do you think polite conversation must never involve discussing things which the  people involved disagree about, and trying to find out why they disagree? Because that is not that different to what these forums are all about, discussing and debating different ways we think about all sorts of issues. Just about everything you post raises issues that we find very strange, illogical, inconsistent, etc, so if you really don't want debate or argument, you should just stop posting. But then you say you find it 'entertaining'...

So it appears you are just 'baiting' us, deliberately raising issues and describing beliefs that you expect us to react to, for your 'entertainment'. This is pretty much the definition of a 'troll', and if most of us didn't find something fascinating about your posts, in the sense of the fascination of a 'train wreck', we would call for you to be banned.

Please notr: disagreement with someone's idea is only relevent to 'atheism' if the idea being debated is about the existence of a god, otherwise it is simply skepticism, which involves examining beliefs of all kinds and assessing whether they are rationally justified.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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Arj wrote:Thomathy wrote:Arj

Arj wrote:

Thomathy wrote:

Arj wrote:
I'm new here and I just wanted to introduce myself.
Ah.  Well, hi!  Now, did you suspect that anyone here might take issue with your beliefs?

Nope. I sure did not. I wouldn't have readily stepped into a hostile environment and been so open with people who were just out for blood. That wouldn't be very logical. If I was aiming for a debate wouldn't I at least try to prep myself? Think about it. It seems like a bloodsport with you people. I thought I would meet like minded (in the sense of open mindedness) rational sane people. That's the name of this forum btw. Instead, I met the complete opposite.

This is a hidden, but unfounded assumption many people has, including myself. It is very diffcult to imagine, that other people's moms are not a medium and doesn't do a past life therapy. Mine does, this is why it's diffcult even for me.
I understand you, because we have very similar experiences, but we have to constantly remind ourselves, that for majority of other people this is something completely strange.
The open-mindedness is overrated, everyone likes to think about themselves that they're open-minded, but they most probably aren't. If someone wouldn't be, he/she would be like on a drug trip, in a modern human society. An intoxication (ganja, for example) makes a person very mentally sensitive and also vulnerable, and so does the total open-mindedness. Only young children or fools without own judgement falls into this cathegory.
There are certain groups of people, and the rational, logical scholarly group is one of them. I realized that there is no sense in breaching a borders between these groups, instead it's important to see how all these groups works for the common goal, the higher truth, how they are important for each other in this effort. And, also I still don't know where my group has their forum, though I've been sent there multiple times Smiling

Btw, the dualism and monism doesn't exclude each other.
Early in the stages of development, a person doesn't see any soul or spiritual stuff, or an idealism, thus sees the world quite consistent. Later, there appears an idea of the spiritual realm, or higher ideals, (depends on a type of a person) and the person is confronted with a dualism of spirit and matter, good and evil, and so on. But with even greater understanding it becomes obvious, that both good and evil are functional aspects of the same thing, working for the same purpose. A people with this deep understanding says that ALL IS ONE, not because it looks like that, but because it is in it's inner basis. We call our body by one name, we don't adress each other's bones, muscles and brain separately. The ONE is an idea of interrelated unity. All our cells works for the same goal, us. And so there comes an idea of everything being such a segments, hiddenly involved in some greater universal organism, despite of it's differences. People who doesn't have this awareness, may act against each other, like an immunity system who doesn't recognize own body cells and destroys them in a rightful crusade.
This is, by the way, a definition of a radical anything, including atheist.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


Arj
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Thomathy wrote:Arj

Thomathy wrote:

Arj wrote:
Well then, you need to catch up on your studies or read my sig.
You signature doesn't actually articulate at all what you think think 'radical atheism' means.  As far as I've ever encountered the term it has turned out to be meaningless.  So, would you pelase articulate what you think 'radical atheism' is?

Quote:
It was an analogy for the argument you are using and I see I have reason to repeat myself.
Whoa!
thomathy wrote:
If you don't care what anyone thinks about your beliefs, then why are you here and why did you post them in your introduction?  If you only wanted to introduce yourself, you could have done so in a number of other ways that wouldn't have put beliefs you don't want to talk about in the spotlight.
That's what I wrote and you analogized me with an asshole trying to make you look like one.  Except, I don't see how I'm being an asshole and I wasn't trying to make you look like one.  And, I hadn't presented an argument.  What I did was ask you a question that was contingent on whether or not it's true that you don't want your beliefs questioned.  It is, apparently, true.  I then provided a suggestion based on the truth of the antecedent in my 'if, then' question, namely, that if you don't care what others think of your beliefs you could have introduced yourself in a number of ways that didn't include a rundown of your beliefs.  That is not an argument, Arj.  Oh, and don't bother answering that question.

Quote:
It depends on what it was. I will see if it's worth my time. If it's about debating my beliefs then the answer is no.
Well, I'll just list the questions I've asked you and intended to be answered that you haven't answered (all of which were in the posts of mine to which you responded... did you even read the whole of my posts?).

  1. What is it that you do want to discuss here? 
  2. Is it clear yet that these forums cover a wide range of topics?
  3. What is, exactly, the difference between your beliefs and theirs? (Which is of particular interest now considering your definition of freethinker)
  4. How, exactly, did you come to be atheist? ((You are an atheist if you do not believe in god(s))
  5. Why are you still here?
  6. [W]ould you pelase articulate what you think 'radical atheism' is?

 

1. I worded that wrong and I changed it before I got off line earlier. I said I will answer a question if it doesn't have to do with "proving" my supernatural beliefs. I am NOT here to convert anybody. That's such an idiotic debate. At least in my eyes it is. Of course if I didn't want to discuss my beliefs then I shouldn't have signed up for a forum in the first place. 2. Yes. I was hoping. 3. & 4.) Both a Christian and a Muslim believe in Christ but that doesn't both qualify them as Christians. I know the definition of Atheism is to NOT believe in God but that is also the definition of a freethinker. So does that point ALONE qualify us both as freethinkers? No. That's the Argument Of The Beard Fallacy. 5.) I told u, you people make me laugh. Are you just gonna keep asking every question twice? 6.) I already told you what I think it is. Look in the mirror. 

That's correct. Sometimes I just scan if it's nothing but belligerent comments so I might've missed your questions the first time.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


Arj
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Btw, the dualism and monism


Btw, the dualism and monism doesn't exclude each other.

I never said they did. Only when it comes to non-dualism.


 

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


Arj
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BobSpence1 wrote:What the

BobSpence1 wrote:

What the hell has "rationaliz[ing] life in dualistic terms" got to do with morality?? Morality is about having some sort of code of ethics, guidelines about how we deal with other people, a sense that certain classes of action are generally approved ('good') and others disapproved ('bad').

Are u seriously asking me this question right now? Do you even know the definition of dualism? Because you just gave it IN your description of MORALITY. 

(1) Referring to ditheism: the belief that there are two basic principles, usually personified as deities, that work in polar opposition to each other. (2) The tendency of humans to perceive and understand the world as being divided into just two categories....In it's theological meaning, Dualism is the theory that there are two independent and opposing forces (God and the Devil) in continual conflict, and that the outcome of that conflict is not decided until the end....Duality; the condition of being double; The view that the world consists of, or is explicable in terms of, two fundamental principles, such as mind and matter or good and evil; The belief that the world is ruled by a pair of antagonistic forces, such as good and evil; the belief that man has ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+dualism&btnG=Search

So there's that or NON-DUALISM. Get it? I say go back in reread my thread on this subject.

 

 

 

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


Arj
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I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:Arj,

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Arj, do you have some favorite mentors, philosophers, labels, etc that align with your beliefs? .... I have quite a few. Most people consider themselves "freethinkers", so can you add to that?

As I read you, you basically say you believe in an immaterial, self conscience aware something, but don't want to debate about it. Is that correct? If so, okay, but why not?

  This thread seems train wrecked. RRS is "primarily" a debate site. Atheists obviously debate, discuss, rant, joke amoung themselves too. RRS is a cool site, especially when you get to know the regulars, theists included.

Right. My supernatural beliefs are not up for debate. I'm not trying to convert anybody. That's y. But no. I don't have any favorite mentors so I probably can't add to that. I thought this was a freethinker forum. That's how I found it in the first place. I was googling freethought/ freethinkers and this popped up. I investigated it and then signed up. Outward appearances can be quite deceiving.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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Luminon, thanks for all your

Luminon, thanks for all your posts ...  I enjoy reading your revealing ideas of mystic thinking, even tho I am not mystic. You say all is ONE , and so do I, but past lives make absolute no sense to me ???

How can individual consciousness clusters stay contained in the transition of birth and death? I don't get it. How could I have been before, to die and be again, in any connected individual personal way, except to say my energy matter isn't destroyed, as says thermodynamics, but surly not reassembled, to say that the individual me stays connected, past and future ????? 

  When the big bang possibly falls back on it self , into a mega black hole that goes bang again , will I be again, will all be the same again? 

   About the bang, singularity .... why assume one bang, why not infinite bangs, as this very day, way the heck out there, beyond our vision ??? Will science ever know?


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Arj, glad you are here,

Arj, glad you are here, really .... thanks .... hope you are enjoying the clash of titians. I sure do, and hey, I get beat up a lot , and that's why I am here, where the free thinkers are. Think of the insults as caring responses, cause people do care. Story Jesus is a famous fuck you character, and ain't that some how important? He said he was god, as to say, fuck superstition and all idol worship.      

  Well if  that was not the ancient message, it is mine. Welcome to consciousneess !

     Let's party !!!


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 Arj wrote:6.) I already

 

Arj wrote:
6.) I already told you what I think it is. Look in the mirror.
 

See? She just insulted you again. She refuses to answer the question.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Give him/her/it the asshat

Give him/her/it the asshat avatar.


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 Jesus, it seems like you

 Jesus, it seems like you want to give almost every slightly irrational person the asshat avatar. Don't we need to reserve it for the most delusional morons?

Eh, well, she did call us fanatical skeptics. And, she compared us to the KKK for investigating her beliefs. Hmmmmm.....

Wow, I keep forgetting she's a girl. Why did she pick the username Arj?

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Arj wrote: I am NOT here to

Arj wrote:
I am NOT here to convert anybody.


I am not here to convert anybody and I don't want anybody trying to convert me either... I'm just not in to proselytizing. 

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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butterbattle wrote: Jesus,

butterbattle wrote:

 Jesus, it seems like you want to give almost every slightly irrational person the asshat avatar. Don't we need to reserve it for the most delusional morons?

Eh, well, she did call us fanatical skeptics. And, she compared us to the KKK for investigating her beliefs. Hmmmmm.....

Then why aren't you all wearing it yet? LOL. If you really think about it. That would fit the description of a radical (anything).....

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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You all

You all ???????????????????????????????????????????


butterbattle
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 Arj wrote:I am not here to

 

Arj wrote:
I am not here to convert anybody and I don't want anybody trying to convert me either... I'm just not in to proselytizing.
 

Yeah, everyone, stop trying to convert Arj into not believing in an afterlife. (ha)

Arj wrote:
Then why are you all wearing it yet? LOL

This is getting pointless.

Quote:
I understand that just like religion science can turn you into radical atheists but does it also make you deaf in one ear too?

This sentence is pretty impressive. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:You

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

You all ???????????????????????????????????????????

LOL. My bad. I was saying, the majority of these people can't deny that their antics were proselytizing in nature. Thereby radical. I mean a lot of people admitted as much. Then attach Atheism to the end of that and you got the term radical atheism.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


Arj
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butterbattle wrote: Arj

butterbattle wrote:

 

Arj wrote:
I am not here to convert anybody and I don't want anybody trying to convert me either... I'm just not in to proselytizing.
 

Yeah, everyone, stop trying to convert Arj into not believing in an afterlife. (ha)

Arj wrote:
Then why are you all wearing it yet? LOL

This is getting pointless.

Quote:
I understand that just like religion science can turn you into radical atheists but does it also make you deaf in one ear too?

This sentence is pretty impressive. 

 

Thank you, Thank you and Thank you.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


I AM GOD AS YOU
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Radical ? Yin Yang. What

Radical ? Yin Yang. What isn't god, is a simple non radical question isn't it? Atheists just don't believe in the god stuff definitions of the theists. Simple, not radical.

   God imposed beliefs have caused major problems. Would you agree with that?


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I AM GOD AS YOU

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Radical ? Yin Yang. What isn't god, is a simple non radical question isn't it? Atheists just don't believe in the god stuff definitions of the theists. Simple, not radical.

   God beliefs have caused major problems. Would you agree with that?

Hey. Call it what you want as long as we have some sort of understanding. I never denied that about religion or said Atheists were the ONLY ones but right now I'm not in a Christian forum at the tail end of a 250 posts debate filled with proselytizing antics and those who boastfully admitted so. At least, Christ teaches them to lie about it. LOL

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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Oh for goodness sakes ....

Oh for goodness sakes .... when they asked the most famous Buddha about god, he laughed, and so do I , me god !!!  Sheezzz, what isn't GAWED? We must get over superstition, separatist thinking .... check out thermodynamics and anti matter as described in OUR science.

  I started in the kid section,  way revealing, explore this way cool godly site, with videos too. Really worth a few hours ....

>>>   CERN Site Map - see home page
http://livefromcern.web.cern.ch/livefromcern/antimatter/site-map.html


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Oh no. I hope that post

Oh no. I hope that post doesn't spark another unintended debate.


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I do

I do


Arj
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I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:I do

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

I do

Well then, that will be between you and the rest of the crew. I ain't got shit to do with it. LOL. Happy trails.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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All is one , what ever

All is one , what ever trails of imagination ... no make believe will change what is, as we did not ask to even be born ....


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If you come onto this forum

If you come onto this forum and claim you have had past lives you will get 300 emails ripping your believes apart unless you supply some extremely good evidence (Nobel prize level evidence).

If you come onto this forum and claim you have spoken to god you will get 300 emails ripping your believes apart unless you supply some extremely good evidence (Nobel prize level evidence).

If you come onto this forum and claim you have been abducted to aliens ........... you will get ripped apart.

If you come onto forum and have invented a time machine gone to the future and seen that no one is religious in 500 years time (you will get 300 posts saying nice story then get ripped apart due to lack of evidence).

 

Get the theme, a free thinker isnt someone who claims to belief in something different to everyone else to some how be special. If you claim the Earth is flat ,ghosts exist,past lives etc  a free thinker you're a nut job until you start producing peer revied scientific papers on the topics.

 

The problem with people who want to be different is that they are all the same

 

 


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mrjonno wrote:If you come

mrjonno wrote:

If you come onto this forum and claim you have had past lives you will get 300 emails ripping your believes apart unless you supply some extremely good evidence (Nobel prize level evidence).

If you come onto this forum and claim you have spoken to god you will get 300 emails ripping your believes apart unless you supply some extremely good evidence (Nobel prize level evidence).

If you come onto this forum and claim you have been abducted to aliens ........... you will get ripped apart.

If you come onto forum and have invented a time machine gone to the future and seen that no one is religious in 500 years time (you will get 300 posts saying nice story then get ripped apart due to lack of evidence).

 

Get the theme, a free thinker isnt someone who claims to belief in something different to everyone else to some how be special. If you claim the Earth is flat ,ghosts exist,past lives etc  a free thinker you're a nut job until you start producing peer revied scientific papers on the topics.

 

The problem with people who want to be different is that they are all the same

 

 

The only nut jobs I see are proselytizers. I don't have anything to do with IAMGOD's new debate. This is between those nut jobs and those who are deaf in one ear. Peace.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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You'll probably tell me you

You'll probably tell me you don't want to debate and ignore these questions but...

1. What about getting you to examine your beliefs is proselytizing? If I wanted more atheists, I'd tell them to read the Bible (others have said this but that's how I did it)

2. Why should your brand of theism be less scrutinized than the others? I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with telling Christians that they need to look at what they believe - why should your beliefs get a pass?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Arj wrote:1. I worded that

Arj wrote:
1. I worded that wrong and I changed it before I got off line earlier. I said I will answer a question if it doesn't have to do with "proving" my supernatural beliefs. I am NOT here to convert anybody. That's such an idiotic debate. At least in my eyes it is. Of course if I didn't want to discuss my beliefs then I shouldn't have signed up for a forum in the first place.
In what way is that an answer to a question asking you what you do want to discuss here?  What do you want to discuss here?  You did an excellent job of telling me what you're not here to do and what you don't want to discuss, but you didn't answer my question.

wrote:
3. & 4.) Both a Christian and a Muslim believe in Christ but that doesn't both qualify them as Christians. I know the definition of Atheism is to NOT believe in God but that is also the definition of a freethinker. So does that point ALONE qualify us both as freethinkers? No. That's the Argument Of The Beard Fallacy.
You must realize that this isn't an answer to either of the questions I asked.

Thomathy wrote:
What is, exactly, the difference between your beliefs and theirs? (Which is of particular interest now considering your definition of freethinker)
I want to know what the difference is between your beliefs and those of a Christian or a Muslim.  For that matter, between your beliefs and any theist.
Thomathy wrote:
How, exactly, did you come to be atheist? ((You are an atheist if you do not believe in god(s))
And there I asked you how, exactly, you came to be atheist.

What I didn't ask you was to explain how Muslims and Christians are not both Christians even though they both admit of Christ's existence.  I did not ask you to explain how freethinker encompasses the definition of atheist.  And I never even intimated the fallacy that you accuse me of using.

Quote:
6.) I already told you what I think it is. Look in the mirror.
That's not an answer.  You're going to have to show exactly what you mean when you use the terms 'radical atheism' and if I'm supposed to be an example of 'radical atheism', you're going to have to point out what characteristics of not believing in god can be 'radical'.

I don't trust that you'll actually do anything but dodge or repeat yourself (yet again), so don't actually bother responding to this post, Arj.  It's interesting, though, that you should accuse me of a logical fallacy which I never came close to committing when you yourself make a very glaring point of using red herrings.  I think I'm quite done with you.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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Arj. "Not believing in God"

Arj. "Not believing in God" is definitely NOT the definition of 'freethinker', or 'free thinker'. A definition of 'freethinker' may well INCLUDE 'not believing in God', but it is definitely more than that, otherwise it WOULD be exactly the SAME as the definition of 'Atheist'.

We here would consider ourselves 'freethinkers', because we share the other aspects of Freethought such as rejecting dogmas and arguments from authority in general.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

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Arj wrote:Hey. Call it what

Arj wrote:

Hey. Call it what you want as long as we have some sort of understanding. I never denied that about religion or said Atheists were the ONLY ones but right now I'm not in a Christian forum at the tail end of a 250 posts debate filled with proselytizing antics and those who boastfully admitted so. At least, Christ teaches them to lie about it. LOL

Proselytizing requires an intent to convert the target to the proselytizer's beliefs.  I don't think many people here care what you actually believe; instead they're just pointing out how your beliefs don't make any sense.


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Arj, it is true that

Arj, it is true that "science can turn you into radical atheists", if by 'radical atheist', you mean strong atheist. This is entirely reasonable, since a thorough understanding of what we have learnt from scientific study of reality is not only that religious and other supernatural ideas just don't make sense, and are in conflict with so much of what we actually find out when we openly, and with minimum pre-conceived ideas, study the universe and humanity.

We also understand the psychology of why many people find these ideas appealing.

So, of course, when a discipline (Science), designed explicitly to uncover the truth, independent, as far as possible, of our builtin biases and fallible senses and intuitions, consistently conflicts with religious teachings, then strong atheism is a reasonable position to take.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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Thomathy wrote:Arj wrote:1.

Thomathy wrote:

Arj wrote:
1. I worded that wrong and I changed it before I got off line earlier. I said I will answer a question if it doesn't have to do with "proving" my supernatural beliefs. I am NOT here to convert anybody. That's such an idiotic debate. At least in my eyes it is. Of course if I didn't want to discuss my beliefs then I shouldn't have signed up for a forum in the first place.
In what way is that an answer to a question asking you what you do want to discuss here?  What do you want to discuss here?  You did an excellent job of telling me what you're not here to do and what you don't want to discuss, but you didn't answer my question.

Well since you presumed to know that my beliefs are atheistic and I readily admitted that I'm willing to discuss anything that doesn't have to do with "proving" my supernatural beliefs...then that would give you a clear picture of where this conversation should be headed. For people who profess to have "above average" intelligence why does everything need to be spelled O-U-T for you? You all play dumb when it comes to a pun, can't distinguish the similarities between morality and dualism, post post after post of redundant belligerency that speak to your radical views then turn around and claim it's not evident....better yet, like Bob did, you deny it completely, then you resort to these straw man antics whenever it's convenient after which you boast about being THE LEAD AUTHORITY when it comes to advanced thinking and rationality... LOL. Yeah right. Did you get a doctor's order for that dose of insanity???

All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not a pupil. Like you said (a few lines down), the only difference between Theists and Atheists is God..... I believe you. You are absolutely right. I'm starting to see it.

wrote:
3. & 4.) Both a Christian and a Muslim believe in Christ but that doesn't both qualify them as Christians. I know the definition of Atheism is to NOT believe in God but that is also the definition of a freethinker. So does that point ALONE qualify us both as freethinkers? No. That's the Argument Of The Beard Fallacy.
You must realize that this isn't an answer to either of the questions I asked.

Damn. Talk about seeing with one eye closed. I was saying I don't consider myself an atheist regardless of the label you want to apply to me. Then your gonna tell me I didn't answer your questions. No you weren't LISTENING to the answers that I gave. You are trying to tell me that they are NOT answers simply because they don't suit your needs, again, I have made this abundantly clear, that I don't give a fuck about that either. So stop making that plea.... that is if you can come up with anything else. You are going to have to accept the answers I give for what they are. To try to convince me of a lie- saying I'm trying to AVOID the issue- is surely not the case when I've admitted from page one that I just come back to make fun of you. I think I've been on point with my message. LOL.

Thomathy wrote:
What is, exactly, the difference between your beliefs and theirs? (Which is of particular interest now considering your definition of freethinker)
I want to know what the difference is between your beliefs and those of a Christian or a Muslim.  For that matter, between your beliefs and any theist.
Thomathy wrote:
How, exactly, did you come to be atheist? ((You are an atheist if you do not believe in god(s))
And there I asked you how, exactly, you came to be atheist.

What I didn't ask you was to explain how Muslims and Christians are not both Christians even though they both admit of Christ's existence.  I did not ask you to explain how freethinker encompasses the definition of atheist.  And I never even intimated the fallacy that you accuse me of using.

Yarn...trying to turn an example I was using to describe the "Beard Fallacy" into my actual point is right out of the Straw Man's play book, isn't it? Do you got any new material yet?

What is, exactly, the difference between your beliefs and theirs? (Which is of particular interest now considering your definition of freethinker)I want to know what the difference is between your beliefs and those of a Christian or a Muslim.  For that matter, between your beliefs and any theist.

To be honest I don't know this answer. I don't/can't distinguish between Jews, Christians or Muslims because I don't know any. I ONLY know non-dualism and I can tell you that IS the distinction I was making between me and other Atheists when I answered this question the first time.... but no, you didn't get that point either...I'm guessing.

 

6.) I already told you what I think it is. Look in the mirror.

That's not an answer. 

Yes it is.

 

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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jcgadfly wrote:You'll

jcgadfly wrote:

You'll probably tell me you don't want to debate and ignore these questions but...

1. What about getting you to examine your beliefs is proselytizing?

It becomes proselytizing when you won't accept no for an answer. In this scenario what other objective do you have?

If I wanted more atheists, I'd tell them to read the Bible (others have said this but that's how I did it)

I believe you. I'm starting to see it.

2. Why should your brand of theism be less scrutinized than the others? I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with telling Christians that they need to look at what they believe - why should your beliefs get a pass?

Are you serious? Your calling this 300 posts debate a pass?

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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That definitely is NOT an

That definitely is NOT an answer. You are a flarbleglog. You want to know what a flarbleglog is? Look in the mirror. See? Doesn't answer. You're doing what Butthead did in the episode that was a parody of It's a Wonderful Life:

You Buttmunch!

What's a buttmunch?

You're a buttmunch.

 

As Stewart pointed out, you can't call somebody something and then define it by saying it's what that person is. Obviously you just don't get logic.

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BobSpence1 wrote:Arj. "Not

BobSpence1 wrote:

Arj. "Not believing in God" is definitely NOT the definition of 'freethinker', or 'free thinker'. A definition of 'freethinker' may well INCLUDE 'not believing in God', but it is definitely more than that, otherwise it WOULD be exactly the SAME as the definition of 'Atheist'.

Reread the thread. That's exactly what I was saying.

We here would consider ourselves 'freethinkers', because we share the other aspects of Freethought such as rejecting dogmas and arguments from authority in general.

You called yourselves Atheists first. So now YOU are denouncing that title. Y am I not surprised when it's coming from you. This still does NOT qualify us as "like-minded" individuals which is the point I was making about the Beard Fallacy too.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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Learn how to use the quote

Learn how to use the quote function right, asshat.


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MattShizzle wrote:That

MattShizzle wrote:

That definitely is NOT an answer. You are a flarbleglog. You want to know what a flarbleglog is? Look in the mirror. See? Doesn't answer. You're doing what Butthead did in the episode that was a parody of It's a Wonderful Life:

You Buttmunch!

What's a buttmunch?

You're a buttmunch.

 

As Stewart pointed out, you can't call somebody something and then define it by saying it's what that person is. Obviously you just don't get logic.

I elaborated in this post:

LOL. My bad. I was saying, the majority of these people can't deny that their antics were proselytizing in nature. Thereby radical. I mean a lot of people admitted as much. Then attach Atheism to the end of that and you got the term radical atheism.

I thought that was enough. I don't make it a habit to repeat myself simply  because that's what your good at doing.  I tried to tell you. We are not like-minded individuals.... but no one's listening. At least, they are pretending not to hear me. LOL.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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MattShizzle wrote:Learn how

MattShizzle wrote:

Learn how to use the quote function right, asshat.

Learn to QUOTE properly and it would make my job easier ass wipe.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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Fish wrote:Arj wrote:Hey.

Fish wrote:

Arj wrote:

Hey. Call it what you want as long as we have some sort of understanding. I never denied that about religion or said Atheists were the ONLY ones but right now I'm not in a Christian forum at the tail end of a 250 posts debate filled with proselytizing antics and those who boastfully admitted so. At least, Christ teaches them to lie about it. LOL

Proselytizing requires an intent to convert the target to the proselytizer's beliefs.  I don't think many people here care what you actually believe; instead they're just pointing out how your beliefs don't make any sense.

From what I've seen, I'm glad they can't relate to me. LOL

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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BobSpence1 wrote:Arj, it is

BobSpence1 wrote:

Arj, it is true that "science can turn you into radical atheists", if by 'radical atheist', you mean strong atheist. This is entirely reasonable, since a thorough understanding of what we have learnt from scientific study of reality is not only that religious and other supernatural ideas just don't make sense, and are in conflict with so much of what we actually find out when we openly, and with minimum pre-conceived ideas, study the universe and humanity.

We also understand the psychology of why many people find these ideas appealing.

So, of course, when a discipline (Science), designed explicitly to uncover the truth, independent, as far as possible, of our built in biases and fallible senses and intuitions, consistently conflicts with religious teachings, then strong atheism is a reasonable position to take.

Ok. So now YOU go from "not expecting everyone to respect our beliefs" to "We are REALLY just freethinkers" to THIS. "I admit that I'm a bigot but that's just because of EVERYONE else's irrational beliefs"......wow. I don't think I'm the one that needs to be examined here.... if you catch my drift...I'm positive you will say that you don't. But I'm wondering which personality will be speaking for you this time??? This is called compartmentalizing bordering on schizophrenia.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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Arj says " From what I've

Arj says " From what I've seen, I'm glad they can't relate to me. LOL"

  YOU obviously LIE Arj, and think you are clever. Fuck You ... LOL , you dumb fuck, who says nothing .


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I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:Arj

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Arj says " From what I've seen, I'm glad they can't relate to me. LOL"

  YOU obviously LIE Arj, and think you are clever. Fuck You ... LOL , you dumb fuck, who says nothing .

No. I wasn't lying. I feel truly vindicated by this embrace and your charm too.

‘Cause you keep tellin’ me this and tellin’ me that...You say once I’m with you, I’ll never go back... You say there’s a lesson that you wanna teach.... Well, here I am, baby, practice what you preach...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15726?page=9#comment-206178


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Wow, you managed to piss off

Wow, you managed to piss off IAm. Very few people are enough of a twatlips to do that. Only the biggest asshats.

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