We know they are typically not going to read it with enough understanding to realize it in no way supports their position.

Humans invented god , but me god wasn't invented , nor created, as I always was and always will be .... my best human name is thermodynamics, where no separative name applies. Me god is all as you .... 

 BMcD,     My wonderful late caring parents also kindly gave me the social earth name, Mark, and told me I was god, as all is god .... It stuck, and still makes perfect sense to me .... so as is godly thermodynamics ....  

.... maybe atheist jesus has saved him! He is hopefully having a 40 day break thru ....

The Doors - Break On Through

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tah0OnS3nBU

Sorry, I was just skimming this thread and wanted to point out that languages do evolve. By evolve I mean change over time and the study of language of evolution is scientific. Languages usually change because of certain sounds or a series of sounds is hard to pronounce. When this happens to phonemes will split into allophones. Eventually, enough changes will happen that the conditions that created the allophones will no longer exist within the word and two distinct phonemes will be created. This will eventually lead to the language having far to many different sounds which will make it very complex and more changes will have to be made to reduce the number of phonemes.

Sorry for going off topic, I just wanted to point that out.

Also is this the same venomfangx from youtube?

Don't ya hate it? When a Theist poses a question that he/she believes is irrefutable evidence for the existence of his/her god, they just reject any response that is not supportive.. a sort of metaphorical plugging of their ears and screaming "LALALALALA!"

Then, when enough evidence has finally been provided they either scream louder, or disappear. Why is it so hard for these people to admit they are wrong? It happens in all topics in life but it seems to happen the most .. correction.. it DOES happen the most when religious topics are being "discussed."

By the way, I was going to bring up the argument that if you are looking at DNA as a code to make a human and you wanted proof of this happening somewhere else in nature I was going to say look at water. Someone else has already mentioned this I believe but I wanted to put it in a way a basic mind could understand because I believe that sometimes a theist gets confused and doesn't fully understand the way things work even when explained and rather than trying harder to understand they push it away.

So you want a natural event without the use of a conscious mind that mirrors the workings of DNA... H2O... the "DNA" of water. Yes water can be made through a conscious mind, it's called sweat! Granted sweat contains more then just H2O but it is basically bodily generated water to help regulate body temperature; But what about rain? A conscious mind didn't create clouds, in the simplest of terms clouds are water vapor up in the sky, how did it get their? By completely natural events taking place with the total absence of a conscious mind.

You see, DNA is basically a blueprint for building our individual bodies. What is H2O but the blueprint for water? Granted DNA is so much more complex than H2O but what does DNA do? It "directs" things on how they go together... so... You take One Hydrogen and 2 Oxygen molecules and you get WATER and this process is also self directed.. and if you are thinking it's not look outside next time it rains and you will be watching the process in live action! oh and once again this happens by its self with no conscious mind to guide it ...

Now if only this V dude were still around to read that.

I thought this one was already crushed. Seriously, it's just changing the game so that it can't be won. DNA IS merely a molecule with a pattern. Lots of patterns occur in nature. If you want those to be a "language" and consider them "information", you can go right ahead. That's an arbitrary distinction that our pattern-finding minds will make. You could consider the sun an information storage mechanism. It dynamically holds quite a lot of "information" together. A moon or planet is also a big construction of molecules.

1) DNA has a pattern recognized by a mind

2) Minds recognize patterns

3) Therefore DNA is a pattern

It's not all that dramatic. Life happens in the universe, like gravity or radiation. Why? I don't know. That doesn't mean there's a SuperMind.

 Are you the real VenomFangX? Because I don't like the real VenomFangX.

Caught me doing what?

Yes, I'm an atheist. It isn't a prank though.

I know what it is.  It may not be a prank, but you still gave yourself away.  I'm a human lie detector. 

You have demonstrated a basic grasp of logic, and that gave you away.

To say anything is babel

To call one self a Christian is blasphemy, obviously .... All that is, is not something to worship as religion does dogmatically. No dance of religion design is truth, excerpt to convey the religious blind are real.

The more and more I hear god believers try and justify whatever god they believe in the more I laugh at their complete lack of good old honest logic. The fact that each religion thinks it right really says it all and should ring home to the logical mind.

Let's say evolution was proved wrong, big deal, it does not change the fact that this planet has so many diverse religions that it will never know what and if there is a right one. Teachings in the bible are twisted to suit the given scenario or country of origin. Let's not forget the bible was for a long time taken as a literal piece of writing, but as common sense and modern science get's a hold of the rational minded people, the book is suddenly not to be taken literally after all...once again religion shifts its already worn out goal posts. How many times will this nonsense go on before they admit they are wrong?

The main difference between science and religion is science searches for real answers based on research and experiments and will admit when it is wrong, not answers thought up because someone had a vision or they felt god was telling them it was so...was god tellig Ted Haggard what to tell his flock or did he forget to mention to Ted that his acts of fornication would send him to hell. He only came out because he was caught red handed, otherwise he would still be preaching his blasphemy to his mindless sheep.

How convenient it must be to be able to always fall back and blame the devil's temptation on your mistakes, yet all those poor folk thought he was almost a prophet, not quite. He has clearly broke one of the golden bible rules, will he go to hell then? He would have a few hundred years ago, but now we are a bit more civilised, god will forgive him this time I suppose because that is the way the bible is interpreted now, some countries would still deal with his acts much more harshly.

One big thing a lot of people forget is that the religion they so dearly believe in was brought to many countries under banners of war, hate and misguided truths, people were forced to believe in a god or be hung, burned or maybe just tortured till they did agree. That is like a disease spreading across this planet and the fact people still follow the same religions that have killed millions in really brutal ways really astounds me. Time does not take away the fact that millions of women were tortured & killed during the witch hunts. You will get the christian reply, we're not like that, you can't blame us for the acts of the few...well yes I can because you follow the very religion they brought to you in the first place through violent and sick means. That means you have conveniently switched off to the horros of the past because it does not suit you to think to much about it incase you do start doubting. Once doubt sets in it's not the devil speaking to you, it's rationality and logic that's built into your genes.

I was brought up in a Pentecostal church called Struthers Memorial and left at 15, I know there are die hards who won't ever listen because they have been religious for such a long time, but there are many folk sitting on the fence, some of these people according to some churches are called back-sliders, sinners, doubtful Thomas, might even be possessed by demons and need to repent...that is forms of control and no better than the many other fanatical cults. It's a more civilised way of torturing the modern human, instead of putting you into an iron maiden, you are psychologically tortured instead, left with feelings of guilt and self loathing, living in fear of a non existent realm called hell.

Angels & demons are no more real than elfs, Thor, goblins or the Greek gods, the fact you believe in what you do is purely by chance, the fact you were born in the west means you will be more likely christian. It's mind-numbingly simple logic, stop living an ilogical lie and see the obvious facts that are stacked against you. Don't say this is what god told me would happen, I am being persecuted for my religion, if anything religion has persecuted this earth and slaughtered millions upon millions of innocent people.

Here endith the lesson

I've only browsed the responses, and I think many are effective (as well as many that do nothing but yell), but I'll throw my own thought into the ring here. 

First of all, even if we take premises (1) and (2) as completely true and justified, the conclusion doesn't even follow. All you have shown with (1) and (2) is that no natural process known to science created the information; you have not shown that such a state implies a conscious designer. But there are, in fact, problems with your premises. 

For premise (1), DNA is not a code or a language. Language is a tool by which concepts are communicated between one consciousness and another consciousness, and codes are an encryption of language. Since DNA is not itself conscious, this represents a category error that is only used by biologists to make the process more understandable. There is only stored information (pattern), which, when combined with sufficient conditions, will produce an effect determined by the inherent information for that context. That's the way cause and effect works in general. 

For premise (2), then, you are correct - there is no natural process known to science that creates codes. It's an empty set; DNA is not a member of that set because it does not contain encoded language. By the way, if you're interested in a different type of system (i.e. nonliving) in which tons of unrelated information come together to form something highly complex based on an appearance of "encoded language" in each component, study tornadic supercell thunderstorms.  

He censors comments to his videos worse that the USSR did. On that matter, I highly recommend that everyone here watch his videos. I can hardly imagine a more illogical theist. But then again, he is a young earth creationist, so I suppose you can't get any worse then that.

A revelation of the enemy to heal is indeed that Venomfang ... Empathy, no appeasement .... he is sick and blind, so how might we best heal he, this superstitious idol worshiper???