a je to!

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a je to!

just to give everybody a little insight into the culture to which i've expatriated, here is the most classic children's cartoon in czechoslovak history, a je to ("and that's it," basically in english).  it's about two guys who are handymen of sorts and always try to build elaborate solutions to simple problems, and thus cause bigger problems.  i think it's quite possibly the most valuable children's cartoon i've ever seen.

a je to originally has no dialogue, so anyone can enjoy it, but i found this episode on youtube where a couple guys had recorded a dialogue over it in eastern slovak dialect.  since i live in eastern slovakia and have to hear this dialect all the time, mostly from my in-laws, i found this especially hilarious.

luminon, if you're watching, can you understand anything?

if anybody likes this, there are tons of episodes on youtube.  just search for "a je to."

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Moral of the story:

Moral of the story: Engineering is evil. Bust your ass work for the state instead of being creative / innovative.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Kevin R Brown wrote:Moral of

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Moral of the story: Engineering is evil. Bust your ass work for the state instead of being creative / innovative.

really?  huh.

evidently, at least three generations of czechoslovaks took it as "look for the simplest solution and think before you work."

judging by the increasing number of highly qualified slovak IT graduates, who were raised on a je to, the "big bad commies" behind it didn't win.

typical western reaction.  any country with a disproportionate amount of consonants in its name and you can think of nothing but breadlines and barbed wire.  i really hope you were being ironic.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Actually, I don't share

Actually, I don't share Kevin's opinion at all, and my country is the one with the truly virulent commie-hating pedigree.  "A je to" is working off the same humor principle as Rube Goldberg, but making it more fable-ish (fablic?  fablesque?) for the kinder audience.  Furthermore, the Czech Republic (or Bohemia in the old days) has an excellent reputation for manufacturing and engineering going back before the industrial revolution--the astronomical clock in Prague comes to mind--and real engineering is all about finding the most parsimonious solutions to problems of structure, so this program is doing its job very well.

 

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Quote:typical western

Quote:
typical western reaction.  any country with a disproportionate amount of consonants in its name and you can think of nothing but breadlines and barbed wire.  i really hope you were being ironic.

...The guys build a machine (granted, a silly one), it does the work for them, it runs out of work to do... then it just randomly goes fucking haywire and throws furniture around? Explain to me, since I'm apparently so dense, how this realistically reflects what happens when we automate things to save time / energy for ourselves?

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Quote:and real engineering

Quote:
and real engineering is all about finding the most parsimonious solutions to problems of structure

And a true Scotsman never puts sugar in their porridge.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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DamnDirtyApe wrote:Actually,

DamnDirtyApe wrote:

Actually, I don't share Kevin's opinion at all, and my country is the one with the truly virulent commie-hating pedigree.  "A je to" is working off the same humor principle as Rube Goldberg, but making it more fable-ish (fablic?  fablesque?) for the kinder audience.  Furthermore, the Czech Republic (or Bohemia in the old days) has an excellent reputation for manufacturing and engineering going back before the industrial revolution--the astronomical clock in Prague comes to mind--and real engineering is all about finding the most parsimonious solutions to problems of structure, so this program is doing its job very well.

 

thanks, ape.  what country are you from exactly?  because if it's the states, you're one of the first people i've met from back home who knows anything about the czech republic or slovakia.  yes, the astronomical clock is incredible.  seen it many times.  have you been to prague?

i hope no one would share kevin's opinion and i hope, as i said, he was being ironic or, at least, he was being too hasty.  because at face value his words were motivated by three things:

1. prejudice towards communism, or his understanding of it.

2. ignorance of czechoslovak culture and history.

3. (and this is the worst.)  the identification of czechoslovak culture and history with nothing more than communism (and, it seems, communism of a monolithic sort, as if there were no differences between the regimes of the soviet union, czechoslovakia, poland, yugoslavia, etc.).

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Quote:
typical western reaction.  any country with a disproportionate amount of consonants in its name and you can think of nothing but breadlines and barbed wire.  i really hope you were being ironic.

...The guys build a machine (granted, a silly one), it does the work for them, it runs out of work to do... then it just randomly goes fucking haywire and throws furniture around? Explain to me, since I'm apparently so dense, how this realistically reflects what happens when we automate things to save time / energy for ourselves?

it's a fucking CARTOON, kevin.  it goes haywire because that's fucking FUNNY, especially to kids.  and the whole reason he had to build a machine is because he was dumb enough to leave the fucking iron on.  look, i suspect you're being a dick because you don't agree with my politics.  fine.  but don't drag 5 million perfectly creative and hardworking slovaks in with me.  you know nothing about their culture, you know nothing about the czechoslovak communist regime or how it treated entertainment during its various phases, and you have no idea what the creators of this show had in mind or what, if any, pressures they were under.  i didn't share this to make a goddamn political statement, so let's please not turn it into one.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Actually, my opinion was

Actually, my opinion was derived solely from the cartoon. Yourself and DA were the only people to bring-up Czech history/politics at all.

Care to address my question rather than fling ad hominems?

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Actually, my opinion was derived solely from the cartoon. Yourself and DA were the only people to bring-up Czech history/politics at all.

Care to address my question rather than fling ad hominems?

ok, in a calmer way, your question is moot because this cartoon, like most others, makes no claims to realism.

and when you make assumptions about a message behind a czechoslovak cartoon, you cannot separate that from czechoslovak history.

i mean, if it was SOLELY based on the cartoon, with no connection to czechoslovakia at all, how exactly did you get "work for the state."  show me where the state appears in this cartoon.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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iwbiek wrote:DamnDirtyApe

iwbiek wrote:

DamnDirtyApe wrote:

Actually, I don't share Kevin's opinion at all, and my country is the one with the truly virulent commie-hating pedigree.  "A je to" is working off the same humor principle as Rube Goldberg, but making it more fable-ish (fablic?  fablesque?) for the kinder audience.  Furthermore, the Czech Republic (or Bohemia in the old days) has an excellent reputation for manufacturing and engineering going back before the industrial revolution--the astronomical clock in Prague comes to mind--and real engineering is all about finding the most parsimonious solutions to problems of structure, so this program is doing its job very well.

 

thanks, ape.  what country are you from exactly?  because if it's the states, you're one of the first people i've met from back home who knows anything about the czech republic or slovakia.  yes, the astronomical clock is incredible.  seen it many times.  have you been to prague?

 

I'm from the US.  I'm a fan of Tom Stoppard and Vaclav Havel and my dad's a really big fan of the .22 rifles they make there, so I suppose I have some middling familiarity with the country from that.  Also I enjoy defenestration and slender, apple-cheeked blonde women.

And Kevin, you're correct on the "real engineering" thing.  Douchey of me, and a True Scotsman fallacy on my part, at least linguistically--it wasn't intended, and I wasn't setting up any kind of basis of comparison.  But I stand by my statement that the goal of engineering is the parsimonious use of resources in design and construction.  

"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
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Quote:i didn't share this to

Quote:
i didn't share this to make a goddamn political statement, so let's please not turn it into one.

Hey, you're the one who initially claimed that the show was about teaching children values. This would be like me suggesting that Foghorn Leghorn or the The Roadrunner are for teaching children values - and I'd have said exactly the same thing if you'd posted a clip of Wiley Coyote being flattened by one of his own contraptions.

I agree it's funny. I don't agree that it's a valuable teaching tool.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Kevin R Brown wrote:Quote:i

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Quote:
i didn't share this to make a goddamn political statement, so let's please not turn it into one.

Hey, you're the one who initially claimed that the show was about teaching children values. This would be like me suggesting that Foghorn Leghorn or the The Roadrunner are for teaching children values - and I'd have said exactly the same thing if you'd posted a clip of Wiley Coyote being flattened by one of his own contraptions.

I agree it's funny. I don't agree that it's a valuable teaching tool.

ok, well let me present my arguments.

1. it develops critical thinking skills.  children have the opportunity to point out why pat and mat ended up in trouble (and they do, i've seen it).  there are other episodes with more realistic quick fixes where one can clearly see why they went wrong.  often the message is "don't do sloppy work."

2. it presents real life situations, albeit in a funny and caricatured way, unlike looney tunes, or disney, or pokemon, or even sesame street.  czecholslovak children can relate to it because their apartments look exactly like pat and mat's.  (yes, it was i who was too rash with "no claims to realism," but i think it's obvious even to a child that pat and mat's contraptions could never exist in real life.)

3. it encourages learning practical skills.  i've seen more slovak children playing with toy hammers and wrenches than action figures, and that's a direct result of programs like a je to.

4. it encourages friendship and helping others out of difficult situations.

now, let's hear your arguments, because all i've heard is a vague notion of "working for the state."  i really don't know how you can compare this to wiley coyote or foghorn leghorn.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Kevin R Brown wrote:Moral of

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Moral of the story: Engineering is evil. Bust your ass work for the state instead of being creative / innovative.

I saw the moral as, "There is a such thing as being *too* lazy." These two are archetypal geeks. They were playing puzzles. One wanted to do a bit of work, but got distracted by his puzzle. After his iron was destroyed, he and his (surprisingly-forgiving friend) built a simple contraption that took work. So, instead of simply finishing the task at hand, they created a more-complex (and pretty damned neat) solution that was both fun and effective. Because they ignored it, it started going berserk.

Now, this is *exactly* like many programmers I know. We tend to be  a lazy lot, and we sometimes spend *hours* coming up with creative and complex solutions that are generally effective, but not optimal, and often have subtle bugs that come back and bite us in the ass when we least expect it.

I thought it was excellent satire of man's short-sighted ability to turn a creative solution into a nightmare through laziness.

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nigelTheBold wrote:Kevin R

nigelTheBold wrote:

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Moral of the story: Engineering is evil. Bust your ass work for the state instead of being creative / innovative.

I saw the moral as, "There is a such thing as being *too* lazy." These two are archetypal geeks. They were playing puzzles. One wanted to do a bit of work, but got distracted by his puzzle. After his iron was destroyed, he and his (surprisingly-forgiving friend) built a simple contraption that took work. So, instead of simply finishing the task at hand, they created a more-complex (and pretty damned neat) solution that was both fun and effective. Because they ignored it, it started going berserk.

Now, this is *exactly* like many programmers I know. We tend to be  a lazy lot, and we sometimes spend *hours* coming up with creative and complex solutions that are generally effective, but not optimal, and often have subtle bugs that come back and bite us in the ass when we least expect it.

I thought it was excellent satire of man's short-sighted ability to turn a creative solution into a nightmare through laziness.

exactly.  which is why i said that the message is often "don't do sloppy work."

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Certainly. There was no

Certainly.

 

There was no reason behind the malfunction of the machine. It was doing it's task fine, completed it's task, then suddenly took-on the persona of the tired 'machine gone out-of-control' motif and threw furniture across the room. I mean, if this is just for comedy, then fine - but don't then pretend it's meant for developing critical thinking skills.

If the message is 'Pat and Mat should've been monitoring the work more closely', this was already established in the very first ironing scene.

 

As I said, I fail to see how this presents a logical series of events for children to follow.

Quote:
it presents real life situations, albeit in a funny and caricatured way, unlike looney tunes, or disney, or pokemon, or even sesame street

Comparing slapstick comedy to Jim Henson's brilliant work as an educational tool is absurd. Sesame Street taught phonetics, multi-lingualism, mathematics, social interaction, logical deduction and the value of community. Fraggle Rock went even further with regards to social science, teaching about symbiotic relationships and, on a simplistic scale, the value of bridging different worlds together.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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anyway, it's clear from this

anyway, it's clear from this thread that people other than me spotted life lessons in this cartoon.  i like it because it tries to teach children things without talking down to them (they're given an unguided window on two adults) and, unlike most of the educational cartoons on nick jr. and stuff like that, without resulting to talking dogs or time travel or fantasy in general.  maybe i was being a tad hyperbolic when i said it was the most valuable children's cartoon i'd ever seen, but it's definitely one of, and i just don't understand how no one could take a practical lesson from it.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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When I saw this cartoon I

When I saw this cartoon I was immediately reminded of my father!

If you are going to do something- Put 100% into the task and you will reap the rewards.

Thanks for sharing!

 

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I grew up on this "goodnight

I grew up on this "goodnight cartoon" and it's truly legendary among young and older czechs and slovaks (and surely in other states)
I also enjoy the animation, it's no computer trick, it is most probably a real wood, metal, cloth, paper, and so on. This makes the catastrophes much more realistic and hilarious.
It seems this cartoon is a result of communistic phenomenon - Do it yourself. In these times, many shops were badly supplied,  and it was common for people to make some of their furniture, repairs, or various gadgets, improving a life, or sparing an useful space in cramped blocks of flats. There were some popular specialized magazines for handymen. Another typical effect is also a culture of weekend houses, to which whole cities made an exodus every friday.
And yes, there surely is a reference to "golden czech hands", a hopefully still present national trait of engineering ability. Last time I truly felt it, was thanks to machines from the communist era.
I must say, some communistic technics, like cars (old Tatra models), washing machines or fridges, lasted more than 15-20 years.
So it was with Sony audio technics. In these times things had to hold together and be well repairable, because it was unsure when another piece will be smuggled through the iron curtain or bought for "bons". Nowadays, all is crappy.

Btw, I can't view this particular video. I'll try tomorrow from a different computer. I'm also curious at the eastern slovak dialect, I'm not yet familiar with it. Maybe I'll understand practically everything, maybe not. Dialects can vary a lot.

Kevin R Brown wrote:

I agree it's funny. I don't agree that it's a valuable teaching tool.

C'mon, me and other kids always loved to see a healthy dose of habitatual destruction Smiling I think this cartoon is ingenious, it's not a mindless violence (remember Popeye the sailor with his twirl punch), but a constructive work...sort of. As iwbiek mentioned, there are demonstrated practical skills, realistic world, equivalent tools and materials, friendsip, cooperation, and self-help.


As for working for the state, I think this (and weekend houses) is a typical example of people doing something for themselves. The state was mostly there to not work for it too much, because others might not work fast enough on par with you. There was also a lot of small "borrowing" from the public socialistic property, as the proverb says, "Who doesn't steal, steals from own family."
But this was puny, compared to gigantic thievery shortly after the revolution, when people dazed by sudden "freedom" didn't notice that whole milliards and institutions are being stolen right from under their butt.
Now, Czechs (and maybe Slovaks) should:
- again learn the art of defenestration and practice it whenever necessary. A dung heaps should be put under the parliament windows, as it was the thing which once saved the lives of counsellors last time they were defenestrated.
- make a politic job to be in a monastical regime, involving poverty, less freedom and privacy, minimal personal possesions (for the time of being in function) and a temporary ban on politics as a punishment for corruption and scandals.
- forbid to film anything what resembles Kundera's book The Unbearable Lightness of Being
- sell the most of military technics (which we don't need and never will), and abolish paying money at the doctor's. (2 dollars just for showing up there)
- allow techno parties (instead of spending 1 million for a police action to avenge a 20k worth damage on a meadow by dancers )
- tolerate marijuana (instead of arresting old ladies for several years, for growing one plant to heal their Parkinson. President usually saves them by giving them a pardon, but it's getting awkward)
- make a vaccination of children not compulsory, as it is in civilized states. If i'm right, there's still a 600 dollar fee for every rejected vaccination.
- and not think that this list is nearly complete Smiling

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Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Certainly.

 

There was no reason behind the malfunction of the machine. It was doing it's task fine, completed it's task, then suddenly took-on the persona of the tired 'machine gone out-of-control' motif and threw furniture across the room. I mean, if this is just for comedy, then fine - but don't then pretend it's meant for developing critical thinking skills.

really?  so you REALLY think that if someone improvises a machine in real life (which, as luminon says above, many czechoslovaks had to do; my father-in-law still uses a lawnmower made from a washing machine agitator) and then just lets it run by itself unattended, in "REAL LIFE" it wouldn't malfunction for seemingly no reason?  you really think that?  and you don't think there's a safety message in there for kids?

Kevin R Brown wrote:

As I said, I fail to see how this presents a logical series of events for children to follow.

so far, you seem to be the only one.

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Comparing slapstick comedy to Jim Henson's brilliant work as an educational tool is absurd.

so was comparing pat and mat to a talking chicken who can put his feathers back on after having been blown up by dynamite.  and, like i said, you seem to be the only one on this thread who sees nothing but "slapstick comedy" in it.

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Sesame Street taught phonetics, multi-lingualism, mathematics, social interaction, logical deduction and the value of community.

i never said a je to trumped sesame street in everything.  but i did say it represents real life better than sesame street, at least for czechoslovak kids.  who could really relate to sesame street?  it showed a clean, safe neighborhood in what appears to be inner-city new york, inhabited by a giant bird, a trashcan monster, and a dancing, irritating, magical red creature. 

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Quote:who could really

Quote:
who could really relate to sesame street?  it showed a clean, safe neighborhood in what appears to be inner-city new york, inhabited by a giant bird, a trashcan monster, and a dancing, irritating, magical red creature.

Well, I could.

 

The characters in Sesame Street were metaphorical examples of different strata in society. Oscar's was the most obvious (the homeless; and it's somewhat notable that Henson did not use Oscar to demonize people who live among our discarded things. Grumbly and dark-humored, but considerably resourceful and suprisingly kind when the chips are down); I don't immediately recall what Big Bird or Elmo represented.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Quote:really?  so you

Quote:
really?  so you REALLY think that if someone improvises a machine in real life (which, as luminon says above, many czechoslovaks had to do; my father-in-law still uses a lawnmower made from a washing machine agitator) and then just lets it run by itself unattended, in "REAL LIFE" it wouldn't malfunction for seemingly no reason?  you really think that?  and you don't think there's a safety message in there for kids?

Quote:
it's a fucking CARTOON, kevin.  it goes haywire because that's fucking FUNNY, especially to kids.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

If want to have an argument, iwbiek, pick one - and can the appeals to popularity. Which is it? Was it just for humor, like you initially shouted back at me, or do you feel it's a realistic scenario that kids can learn from?

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Quote:
really?  so you REALLY think that if someone improvises a machine in real life (which, as luminon says above, many czechoslovaks had to do; my father-in-law still uses a lawnmower made from a washing machine agitator) and then just lets it run by itself unattended, in "REAL LIFE" it wouldn't malfunction for seemingly no reason?  you really think that?  and you don't think there's a safety message in there for kids?

Quote:
it's a fucking CARTOON, kevin.  it goes haywire because that's fucking FUNNY, especially to kids.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

If want to have an argument, iwbiek, pick one - and can the appeals to popularity. Which is it? Was it just for humor, like you initially shouted back at me, or do you feel it's a realistic scenario that kids can learn from?

i don't see any reason why it couldn't be for both humor and teaching.  the humor side: a machine like this probably couldn't be built in real life, and certainly not so quickly, but children love exaggerated things and funny contraptions.  the education side, if you're going to build a machine or even use one, it requires constant attention because something unforeseen can happen.  and no, i won't can the appeals to popularity because i think you're just being obstinate in maintaining that there's no lesson here.  you certainly haven't gone out of your way to show why all the other lessons people are picking out of it aren't really there.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


darth_josh
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Un-fucking-believable.You

Un-fucking-believable.

You both realize you're having an argument over a friggin' cartoon from 1982??? right???

Even I think that's ridiculous and I'll argue about almost anything.

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Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Quote:
and real engineering is all about finding the most parsimonious solutions to problems of structure

And a true Scotsman never puts sugar in their porridge.

DamnDirtyApe wrote:

And Kevin, you're correct on the "real engineering" thing.  Douchey of me, and a True Scotsman fallacy on my part, at least linguistically--it wasn't intended, and I wasn't setting up any kind of basis of comparison.

Actually, he's wrong. Engineering is an applied science and thus obeys Occam's Razor whenever possible. Since engineering is well defined, it does not fit the intent of No True Scotsman. Compare to "real scientists use facts to confirm or disprove hypothesis," and conversely "real cats nap during the day." On the one hand, there is nothing in the definition of cat to say that it must sleep during the day, while the definition for scientists is essential to what a scientist does. The idea that there are no true engineers is thus plainly seen as false from the implication that "engineering could be about finding the least parsimonious solution to problems of ham and cheese."

darth_josh wrote:

Un-fucking-believable.

You both realize you're having an argument over a friggin' cartoon from 1982??? right???

Even I think that's ridiculous and I'll argue about almost anything.

Nuh uh!

 


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What a marvellous little

What a marvellous little cartoon. I might hungrily devour more episodes of this on Youtube later. I can see that it's not so directly educational as say Sesame Street was (I used to love it as a toddler back in the late 80s/early 90s), but the lessons are clearly there beneath the slapstick. Simple problems, simple solutions; make do and mend; lazyness is bad; do things for yourself when you need to; co-operate with your neighbours etc.  


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Steam Safe Valve?

I would say that the most important lesson is that one should not build a steam engine without a proper safety release valve. It also says that one should not try to multitask took much.

The characters essentially repeated the behavior of leaving the iron unattended (which resulted in a hole burning through the floor).  In their second attempt, they left a complex machine powered by a steam engine unattended which resulted in an explosion.  This implies that the complex machine is more dangerous, and therefore less desirable, especially in situations where they are going to be left unattended.

Essentially they tried to solve the problem without addressing the root cause, which was leaving a hot iron unattended.  The ideal solution would have been to make sure that you never leave the iron unattended or to modify the iron so that it shuts off automatically. Instead, they build a machine that is superior to the iron, but more dangerous when left unattended.

The true moral is that when you solve problems, find the root cause or your solution may cause new problems.

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iwbiek wrote:luminon, if

iwbiek wrote:
luminon, if you're watching, can you understand anything?

This video suddenly started to work for me now. I can understand only about 60-70% of the speech, because

- this accent is really unfamiliar to me.

- these guys are mumbling a lot.

But yeah, in some moments it was hilarious. It's rare to find a good dubbing parody on them, because most of them is just about vulgar words, which gets boring quickly.

The machine there reminds me of robotic arm, used in various industries. Since Pat & Mat doesn't probably know a macro language for them, they could rather use a type of arm which is first manually guided and then it repeats the move. Similar technology surely had to exist at the time, it's unlikely that Pat & Mat would help to improve a robotics industry Smiling

 

 

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iwbiek
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Luminon wrote:this accent is

Luminon wrote:

this accent is really unfamiliar to me.


yeah, it's eastern slovak dialect, which is in many ways similar to polish.  people from bratislava probably wouldn't understand this.  hell, many people from kosice wouldn't understand this!

as i said, i hear this dialect all the time, since i live in an eastern slovak village.  my in-laws use it a lot.

interesting fact, the US ambassador to slovakia, vincent obsitnik, can speak this dialect!  his family is from near humenne, i think, and he visited there a lot growing up.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Kevin, you ruin everything,

Kevin, you ruin everything, man.  You take shit 100% too seriously.  It's a cartoon, and a nice one at that.  You've totally missed the point yet again with your pedantry.