Collisions delayed by a sizeable quench

Eloise
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Collisions delayed by a sizeable quench

Some 100 coils overheated at the LHC in a recent quench incident. From reports it would seem no magnets were lost and major crises were successfully averted, but the tunnel has lost some helium and collisions which looked promising for next week are now temporarily set back yet again. Sad

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7626256.stm

 

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UPDATE: New news reports are

UPDATE: New news reports are quoting a two month repair delay indicating, I would guess, that a magnet (or more) has been damaged. 

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The news services can't seem

The news services can't seem to agree with one another on just what's caused the delay. I guess it's safe to assume a magnet (or more) was damaged.

Frustratin'! I can only imagine the frustration of the folks working the LHC, though.

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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I didn't read the article,

I didn't read the article, but I have to ask.  Were the faulty parts made by Americans?  If so, wouldn't that be the third delay because of shitty American craftsmanship?

 

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Hambydammit wrote:I didn't

Hambydammit wrote:

I didn't read the article, but I have to ask.  Were the faulty parts made by Americans?  If so, wouldn't that be the third delay because of shitty American craftsmanship?

 

USA and India collaboration for the magnets and cryos.

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Hambydammit wrote:I didn't

Hambydammit wrote:

I didn't read the article, but I have to ask.  Were the faulty parts made by Americans?  If so, wouldn't that be the third delay because of shitty American craftsmanship?

 

Evidently not this time, Hamby, last I read the culprit was a superconductor bus cable, probably made by Russia. 

 

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Awww... I was sooo ready to

Awww... I was sooo ready to form some kind of conspiracy theory about American wacko tin foil hatters infiltrating and sabotaging the parts to keep a black hole from swallowing the earth.   (It worked in "Contact.&quotEye-wink

 

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Hambydammit wrote:Awww... I

Hambydammit wrote:

Awww... I was sooo ready to form some kind of conspiracy theory about American wacko tin foil hatters infiltrating and sabotaging the parts to keep a black hole from swallowing the earth.   (It worked in "Contact.&quotEye-wink

 

I'm still thinking it's because CERN has to convert everything from us to metric.

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ROFL!Is there even an

ROFL!

Is there even an English equivalent of a nanometer?

 

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Quote:Awww... I was sooo

Quote:

Awww... I was sooo ready to form some kind of conspiracy theory about American wacko tin foil hatters infiltrating and sabotaging the parts to keep a black hole from swallowing the earth. 

Yeah, but that would require extensive knowledge of systems engineering and the inner workings of colliders, which, by definition, these people would not be in posession of.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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Quote:Is there even an

Quote:

Is there even an English equivalent of a nanometer?

Hell, forget nanometers. We use that measure in cell biology. This is subatomic physics. Is there an English equivalent of a femtometer?

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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deludedgod

deludedgod wrote:

Quote:

Awww... I was sooo ready to form some kind of conspiracy theory about American wacko tin foil hatters infiltrating and sabotaging the parts to keep a black hole from swallowing the earth. 

Yeah, but that would require extensive knowledge of systems engineering and the inner workings of colliders, which, by definition, these people would not be in posession of.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to agree with you.

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Nuuuu! Now it's off 'till

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Aw man... is this thing just

Aw man... is this thing just too huge to have it all working at once?  Sad


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phooney wrote:Aw man... is

phooney wrote:

Aw man... is this thing just too huge to have it all working at once?  Sad

 

That's a very good question. My 'gut' says no because there have been other plans for ones even bigger than the LHC.

I think there is a lot more time, money, and personnel that can be directed toward it. There's plenty of room. Did you see the size of the control area?

Perhaps if we can get Fermilab out of their collective patchwork pajamas, CERN can do more.

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Quote:phooney wrote:Aw

Quote:

phooney wrote:

Aw man... is this thing just too huge to have it all working at once?  Sad

 

That's a very good question. My 'gut' says no because there have been other plans for ones even bigger than the LHC.

I feel like being a total pain in the ass now, so I'm going to throw this out there.  What does this say about the possibility of giant spacecraft to carry humans off of earth en masse?  I mean... really?  We're going to be able to build a machine that huge and that perfect, and we can't even get something straight when it's just sitting on the ground?

Yes, boys and girls, we are stuck on this rock, I believe.

 

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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

Quote:

phooney wrote:

Aw man... is this thing just too huge to have it all working at once?  Sad

 

That's a very good question. My 'gut' says no because there have been other plans for ones even bigger than the LHC.

I feel like being a total pain in the ass now, so I'm going to throw this out there.  What does this say about the possibility of giant spacecraft to carry humans off of earth en masse?  I mean... really?  We're going to be able to build a machine that huge and that perfect, and we can't even get something straight when it's just sitting on the ground?

Yes, boys and girls, we are stuck on this rock, I believe.

 

Actually, it is about 100 meters underground. But I get your point.

It took a long time to get the RHIC working : http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/

It took a while to get the tevatron functional : http://www-bdnew.fnal.gov/tevatron/

Granted, neither of those have near zero kelvins operating 'temps', but they are pretty complex in their own right.

The upgrades to the Tevatron are on a massive scale, but since it is currently a Republican America the money is slow. Read one issue of their newsletter and you will become even more pessimistic about the future of America's HEP program.

The points of importance of High Energy Physics with regard to space travel are many including fueling, energy efficiency, limits of matter, even to the point of possibly constructing any necessary missing elements from the destination 'planet' (I am not talking fully functioning replicators Trek-tards). Without a nearly complete knowledge (not hypothesis) of matter, we'd be doomed before getting out of the solar system.

 

As far as carrying humans en masse away from here, I would ask: "Why en masse?" Can't we leave a few at a time heading in different directions? OK more than a few, but not too many.

For a sperm metaphor, we don't just grow them until they're so big that they will eat the egg. We make lots so a few have a chance to find it.

 

 

 

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deludedgod wrote:Quote:Is

deludedgod wrote:

Quote:

Is there even an English equivalent of a nanometer?

Hell, forget nanometers. We use that measure in cell biology. This is subatomic physics. Is there an English equivalent of a femtometer?

 

It's the quiffle.  There are exactly 3.78 quiffles to the femtometer. Sticking out tongue

 

M

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Quote:I feel like being a

Quote:
I feel like being a total pain in the ass now, so I'm going to throw this out there.  What does this say about the possibility of giant spacecraft to carry humans off of earth en masse?

Nothing at all.

Compared to the LHC, most spacecraft are child's play. You don't need to have a spacecraft at near absolute zero for it to operate.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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Why does Hamby always get

Why does Hamby always get his panties in a knot when it comes to inter-planetary travel? Hell he even brought it up to get his panties knotted.

 

Maybe he was abducted, got the anal probe and is now trying to rationalize away the experience as just a dream.


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Would you stop going on

Would you stop going on about your little brother?  I KNOW it was just a dream!  I KNOW I didn't have an anal probe!  And I KNOW that I'm not under alien control!!!

 

The interstellar travel thing aggravates me on two levels.  First, it's make believe science.  It's essentially the same argument theists use:  Well, even if there's no evidence for god that you know about right now in the universe, it doesn't mean he doesn't exist!

Compare that with:  Yeah, but in the future, despite the 1001 empirical, physical limitations, and the virtually insurmountable energy requirements, technical hurdles, and geopolitical implications, you can't prove that humanity won't completely defy its nature and achieve miraculous technical wonders that defy the laws of physics, and we'll all get to go on a trip to the stars!

 

I love sci fi as the next guy, but if we're talking about being rational, it's not rational to suppose that any of that will ever happen.

The second way it irks me is that so many people use uninvented future technology as a safety net to allow us to do whatever we want now.  "Don't worry about global warming.  Technology will save us.  If it doesn't, technology will save us by letting us go to other planets!  Don't worry about overpopulation.  We'll figure out how to shield a whole planet from solar radiation and build a colony on mars.  After that, we'll figure out how to overcome the force of gravity and build one on all the moons of Jupiter!  Then, we'll colonize the whole galaxy!!"

I don't give a rat's ass if it's technically possible for biological beings to travel through interstellar space.  The fact is, if the temperature of the ocean rises three degrees in the next hundred years, it's not going to matter one bit.  And if even one person thinks that everything will be ok because technology will save us, then this is an irrational belief that is causing people to live irrationally.

 

 

 

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In the early 1900's, people

In the early 1900's, people thought that travelling faster than 30 miles per hour would kill you. Now, it's a residential speed limit.

We don't know what the actual limits of technology are.

I would say that it is irrational to declare something as technologically impossible without knowing the limits.

We make hypotheses which include testable criteria and then test them. If something does not work then we don't throw out the whole hypothesis, but make a new one based upon what was learned.

Effectively, neither of us can say that humans will or will not go to other stars because the entire idea is LESS THAN 70 YEARS OLD.

I'm relatively disappointed on a daily basis with the progression of science. I didn't think I would be disappointed in the way an advocate of thought would cynically attack ideas that try to stay grounded in science.

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I'm actually not done with

I'm actually not done with this.

To call thinking about future possibilities make-believe science doesn't seem fair.

Granted, there are some real 'woo-woo' ideas, but damn I never thought inter-stellar travel would be put into that category. I'm not talking about 'warp drives', 'wormholes', or 'folding time' or any of that crap.

There are some real challenges to the idea, but to just outright say, "It will never happen, no matter what you do." bespeaks more of THEISTIC arguments than placing a little bit of hope in technological advancement.

AND to denigrate the human race as a whole with the comment "... humanity won't completely defy its nature..." What exactly do you perceive human nature to be? Do you see us all as cavemen with clubs beating on a monolith while poorly composed music plays in the background?

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry that dealing with 'umpteen zillion' theists has jaded you to the point of thinking that the smarter pieces of the race won't be around to keep humanity on track as best it can.

I'm sorry that you have been led to believe that real scientists have been replaced by star trek or stargate fans.

I'm sorry that we haven't discovered enough yet to assuage your worry over future technology, which by its very definition is 'uninvented'.

I'm sorry that some people have been led to believe scientists will be able to work on social problems like overpopulation or global warming.

I'm sorry that all of the possible scenarios for inter-stellar travel presented to you have violated the laws of physics. There are many plans which require our knowledge of physics to even be possible at all (such as orbital slingshot/gravity assisted acceleration)

In my oh-so-humble opinion, the things you have used in analogous comparison to the idea of inter-stellar travel are unfair at best.

I'm not very optimistic when it comes to seeing a manned craft leave our solar system in my lifetime, but EVER? really? EVER? That's just hopeless pessimism and even worse... it's the fundamental basis of dogma.

Now, as advocates of freethought it seems apparent to me that we must keep open (albeit not loose) minds when confronting an idea with our skepticism rather than flat out asserting something in the FUTURE cannot happen.

Oh, and in retrospect, I'm sorry I had to give this more effort to try to convince people that all hope for the human race to go to other stars is not lost on the basis of one electrical connection failure on presently the largest, most complex machine in the world.

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I'm not saying your opinion

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, just perhaps jaded, cynical, pessimistic, and hopeless sounding.

You're still one of my favorite people.

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Hambydammit wrote:ROFL!Is

Hambydammit wrote:

ROFL!

Is there even an English equivalent of a nanometer?

 

1 mil = 25.4 μm. Does that help?