Speaking of Wealth Redistribution...

Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
Speaking of Wealth Redistribution...

Quote:

Obama’s Tax Plan Better for Working Families Than McCain’s

by Seth Michaels, Sep 4, 2008

As the Republican Convention continued Tuesday night, former Sen. Fred Thompson (R-Tenn.) brought out a tired old talking point in his speech, one that Sen. John McCain and his allies have been pushing all year and that corporate interests have been trying to sell for decades. It’s the old “tax hike” scare.

 

Thompson and McCain are flat-out wrong when they allege Sen. Barack Obama’s proposed economic plan would raise taxes on millions of working families. In reality, his plan would give tax cuts to nearly all working families.

 Washington Post 
Source: The Washington Post

Later in the article:

Quote:

Obama’s plan gives tax cuts to 95 percent of working families. The overwhelming majority of taxpayers would see a bigger tax cut under Obama’s plan than McCain’s. As The Washington Post chart shows, 60 percent of taxpayers would get a tax cut three times as big from Obama as from McCain. That’s real money in the pockets of hardworking families.

 

Meanwhile, McCain’s economic proposals are mostly built around expanding on Bush’s giveaways to the very rich and to corporations. As we’ve reported, economists are struck not only by the massive scale of the tax cuts and the incredible imbalance, but by the sharp reversal these plans represent from McCain’s positions just a few years ago. Rather than being a “maverick,” as his allies in Washington and the press love to call him, McCain, who initially opposed Bush’s tax cuts for the rich but now wants to make them permanent, has steered hard toward the Bush economic agenda.


 

I leave the criticism and analysis to you.

{fixed-aiia}


nikimoto
nikimoto's picture
Posts: 235
Joined: 2008-07-21
User is offlineOffline
Here's my analysis... WTF

Here's my analysis...

 

 

Why does someone making 8 times what I make need a further tax break that is double mine?

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

 


Sleestack
Sleestack's picture
Posts: 172
Joined: 2008-07-07
User is offlineOffline
If those charts are correct,

If those charts are correct, either way, I make out on the deal. I think the real question is, who's policies would actually be put into affect and what changes will be made to those plans once one of them is in the White House? We are just seeing the fancy glossy brouchures for each candidate right now, once we actually get the product, things aren't always what they appeared to be.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Unless you're rich, you'd

Unless you're rich, you'd get a better deal under Obama.


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
I have a question, why are

I have a question, why are taxes considered a BAD thing... o_O? and why is raising taxes considered a mortal sin?

Canadians pay 14% (BC) to 23%(Quebec) in combined Government and Provincial taxs on almost everything

WTF do Americans pay? 8%? (pulled that number out of my ass)

What Would Kharn Do?


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
Quote:I have a question, why

Quote:
I have a question, why are taxes considered a BAD thing... o_O?

I've never said any such thing.  I do think taxing people based on how much it will affect their standard of living is good public policy.

Quote:
and why is raising taxes considered a mortal sin?

It isn't.  It's when, where, how, and why you raise them that comes into question.  I resent having my taxes raised to fund a war and a trillion dollar lynching.

Quote:
WTF do Americans pay? 8%? (pulled that number out of my ass)

Sales tax averages 7-9% in most places.  Income tax varies significantly, but most of my employees take home about 84% of their gross, and then end up owing taxes at the end of the year.

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


Sleestack
Sleestack's picture
Posts: 172
Joined: 2008-07-07
User is offlineOffline
I wish I only paid 8%. I'm

I wish I only paid 8%. I'm taxed roughly 34% of my earnings when combining state and federal taxes.


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13545
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
nikimoto wrote:Here's my

nikimoto wrote:

Here's my analysis...

 

 

Why does someone making 8 times what I make need a further tax break that is double mine?

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

 

I really don't feel sorry for someone who has that much and bitches about paying more. Even if the top CEO in this country only made 2 million a year, there is not one place in this country where you couldn't find food and shelter. I could make 2 mill work. I already make 8ph work, so cry me a fucking river if you have to live in one mansion insted of 5.

It is not that people want more, it is that the ratio between the richest of the rich and the poorest of the poor is tremendiously lopsided and growing. No one should be forced to give up more if they have more, but they should have the common sense to know when they can afford it, and they can, but they either don't want to admit it, or dont care and are greedy.

I don't know where I read anothe post on this site, but if I recall correctly one of America's richest economists agrees that rich people should not bitch. If someone reading this knows which post that was, repost the link here.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


mohammed
mohammed's picture
Posts: 119
Joined: 2008-08-20
User is offlineOffline
 Exactly Brian, I would

 Exactly Brian, I would just love to hear the whack reasoning that the middle to lower class people that would end up paying more under Mclame have. I mean the people that know they will be paying more.


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
Hambydammit wrote:Quote:I

Hambydammit wrote:

Quote:
I have a question, why are taxes considered a BAD thing... o_O?

I've never said any such thing.  I do think taxing people based on how much it will affect their standard of living is good public policy.

Quote:
and why is raising taxes considered a mortal sin?

It isn't.  It's when, where, how, and why you raise them that comes into question.  I resent having my taxes raised to fund a war and a trillion dollar lynching.

 

I know, i know... just your bare-bones average amurican type, thinks differently then you hamby. When we're talking Amurican politics, raising taxes is considered a mortal sin.

 

Hambydammit wrote:
Sales tax averages 7-9% in most places. 
Wow, im on fire today... unless Americans pay income tax on buying a candybar, in which i totally rescind my statement

What Would Kharn Do?


Sleestack
Sleestack's picture
Posts: 172
Joined: 2008-07-07
User is offlineOffline
The Doomed Soul wrote:Wow,

The Doomed Soul wrote:

Wow, im on fire today... unless Americans pay income tax on buying a candybar, in which i totally rescind my statement

Hey now, let's not give them any ideas. Eye-wink


anniet
Silver Member
Posts: 325
Joined: 2008-08-06
User is offlineOffline
The Doomed Soul wrote:I have

The Doomed Soul wrote:

I have a question, why are taxes considered a BAD thing... o_O? and why is raising taxes considered a mortal sin?

If you don't watch out the commie pinkos will steal your children and barbeque your puppies while smoking dope.  It's a fact!  Reagan said so!

"I am that I am." - Proof that the writers of the bible were beyond stoned.


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
anniet wrote:If you don't

anniet wrote:

If you don't watch out the commie pinkos will steal your children and barbeque your puppies while smoking dope.  It's a fact!  Reagan said so!

Ok, and whats the bad side?

What Would Kharn Do?


Cali_Athiest2
Cali_Athiest2's picture
Posts: 440
Joined: 2008-02-07
User is offlineOffline
How so many Americans can

How so many Americans can support the repug party still is beyond me. I know that they have gotten so good at using religion and the fear of terrorism to divide the masses, but come on. The democrats have always been the party of the middle class and poor. I don't agree with the dems on most issues but I feel that their compassion is much greater than the repugs anytime.

McCain has successfully used the fear of higher taxes against Obama to the repug base and unless Obama hammers home his tax plan to middle America he could face defeat. The economy should be Obama's hinge pin and show a workable solution to the economic woes we face right now.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


arkham1999
arkham1999's picture
Posts: 9
Joined: 2008-09-07
User is offlineOffline
mohammed wrote: Exactly

mohammed wrote:

 Exactly Brian, I would just love to hear the whack reasoning that the middle to lower class people that would end up paying more under Mclame have. I mean the people that know they will be paying more.

It is the wonderful "official" logic of supply side economics or "Reaganomics" of the eighties.  They figure if the richest receive the big tax breaks they will reinvest in their factories, stores ect.  providing jobs to the  masses.  They earn more money, paying their higher rate of taxes to offset the benefit given to rich and purchase more goods and services, thereby stimulating the economy.  It will backfire, the rich will invest in non tangible assests and we will triple our national debt like they did in the eighties.


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13545
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Cali_Athiest2 wrote:How so

Cali_Athiest2 wrote:

How so many Americans can support the repug party still is beyond me. I know that they have gotten so good at using religion and the fear of terrorism to divide the masses, but come on. The democrats have always been the party of the middle class and poor. I don't agree with the dems on most issues but I feel that their compassion is much greater than the repugs anytime.

McCain has successfully used the fear of higher taxes against Obama to the repug base and unless Obama hammers home his tax plan to middle America he could face defeat. The economy should be Obama's hinge pin and show a workable solution to the economic woes we face right now.

Well before you go pinning America's problems all on one party, lets not forget that government has mushroomed under both parties. Why? because we as individuals have not taken the personal responsibility to cut out the middle man as much as possible and deal honestly with each other. Instead we use government to pit class against class. It is much like a child pitting parent against parent instead of trying to solve the problem without them.

More regulation as a blanket solution is just as bad as no regulation as a blanket solution and neither do anything but side for an agenda. It is how we solve problems together that is important not the fact that we value different things.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


nikimoto
nikimoto's picture
Posts: 235
Joined: 2008-07-21
User is offlineOffline
nikimoto earlier said:

nikimoto earlier said: wrote:

Here's my analysis...

 

 

WTF?

 

Why does someone making 8 times what I make need a further tax break that is double mine?

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

 

 

Just in case it wasn't obvious....

I was referring to the McCain scenario above.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10549
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
I have become more and more

I have become more and more leery of tax cuts the older I get. It sounds so good, until the hospitals and schools all around you keep closing and going on strike.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Cali_Athiest2
Cali_Athiest2's picture
Posts: 440
Joined: 2008-02-07
User is offlineOffline
By no means do I blame any

By no means do I blame any one party for the size of our federal government and the massive waste done by such. You are 100% correct that we are to blame by not reigning in the incompetent power of our corrupt politicians. Both major parties need to be outed and someone.... anyone would be better than what the dems or repubs have to offer. As a matter of fact my hero, Ron Paul said we should all vote no confidence and vote for third party candidates.

The Constitution does not allow for many of the programs we have under the fed government. Hell, it doesn't even allow for a standing army, yet we have had a standing army for what.... 160 years now? The social welfare system has given rise to a corporate welfare system and which one is worse?

The wealthy folks in this country need to realize that they have been given special privelige living here. I don't ask anyone to pay more than their fair share mind you, but the rich will not take care of the poor. That's the ideal I find attractive about the dems, well at least the old dem party anyways. Empowering the working class to build an economic system and not relying on the upper class giving the workers crumbs. So I say tax the hell outta em until they realize that trickle down economics has been a failure.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
"Eat the Rich", a wise old

"Eat the Rich", a wise old saying indeed .....

Oh, Hamby, there's a riot going on in .... (where your keen social perception might be helpful),

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15352

Technocracy a better answer, a Scientific one.

http://www.technocracy.org/

   78 - This is something perhaps Hamby could help us sort thru ....


The Doomed Soul
atheist
The Doomed Soul's picture
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2007-08-31
User is offlineOffline
I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:Oh,

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Oh, Hamby, there's a riot going on in .... (where your keen social perception might be helpful),

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15352

Technocracy a better answer, a Scientific one.

http://www.technocracy.org/

   78 - This is something perhaps Hamby could help us sort thru ....

 

 

Shhh! dont ruin it, im having fun... meany

What Would Kharn Do?


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
So sorry, but shit, my

So sorry DOOMED, but shit, my people suffer so .... god needs help!