It works for me!

Fonzie
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It works for me!

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

 


Vastet
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[i]One was caught in the

One was caught in the false notion that refuting a troll must fail to accomplish anything, never once considering the audience is the real target when debating religion. Troll or theist, it doesn't matter. You can't convert a troll, and converting a theist who's so confident in their position that they go out to atheist websites is only marginally more likely. The audience is the best target, the real target.
Even a troll can help convert more theists than a atheist with his head up his ass.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Brian37
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Vastet wrote:One was caught

Vastet wrote:
One was caught in the false notion that refuting a troll must fail to accomplish anything, never once considering the audience is the real target when debating religion. Troll or theist, it doesn't matter. You can't convert a troll, and converting a theist who's so confident in their position that they go out to atheist websites is only marginally more likely. The audience is the best target, the real target. Even a troll can help convert more theists than a atheist with his head up his ass.

I don't think anybody should ever go into a debate, anywhere on the web or in real life thinking they will suddenly cause the person they are conversing with to change their position on the spot. You can plant that seed of doubt and or cognitive dissonence in that person long term. But the bigger goal is providing the viewer, readers the bystanders the display.

I have heard atheists say "what is the point, they won't give it up", but that is not the point. I do it if not for anything else, but to see all the new ways the theist tries to repackage their arguments.

I do know though, that both I and my yonger sister DID deconvert because of someone else tossing us questions. It is rare if ever that you meet people days, months, years after the fact, whom do change their position. Most of the time you never hear about that. But I agree, it is much more important to put it out there so that it acts as a vaccine to people who are mere viewers because they are not mearly seeing the theists side of it.

Even as an atheist, early on I stayed in the closet becaue of the stigma of the word. But there is an atheist nurse out of Chicago, who had her opinion printed about 9/11 that went nation wide and to my local paper. She will never know how much she helped me in being confident in seeking other atheists online.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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A RIGHT TO BE WRONG, INCONSISTENT, AND PUT FAITH IN HAWKINS

Brian37 wrote:

Vastet wrote:
zarathustra wrote:
Onward dragged the pointless thread, For on and on, the Troll they fed, Whose nonsense, one may demonstrate,
Trolls feeding trolls. Like you, the biggest and most obvious troll on the site in recent times. Also the least effective, since noone cares about your broken record peanut gallery comments enough to stop responding. Brian doesn't qualify as a troll, since he actually believes the stuff he's saying. Like theists, he's stuck in a loop. Fonzie, if he is trolling, would be the best troll, since he's been doing it for years without a break in character. But not the biggest troll and certainly not the most obvious or ineffective.

What loop am I stuck in? That it makes more sense that humans merely make gods up to coddle their insecurities? Or that they have no evidence whatsoever that an ivisible non material thinking being exists? Or that even people like Hawkins have said "A god is not required". If that is a loop, then I am more than happy to be stuck in that loop because that is where science is pointing. I still think some people here think somehow I cannot separate human rights from personal beliefs.

I think this also is a missunderstanding of the term "agnostic atheist" which is what I am. The part even atheist sometimes fail to consider is timeframe issues. Past, present and future. As far as past and present claims I am 100% sure it all god claims are merely products of human imagination that merely give humans false comfort. I am strictly "semantically" and "technically"  agnostic about the future because science never talks in terms of absolutes.

But even then I still lean strong atheist about the future in terms of 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% probablility of a god even being a requirement. Stephen Hawkens has said "A god is not required".

So yea, I truely believe gods are made up and that even though we cant "techncally know", we do have abundant evidence that humans can believe false things.

 

All anyone with any god claim has to do is produce a universale testible falsifiable system so that an independent source can replicate such methodology and confirm their claims, get those claims independently tested and confirmed, and even the scientific community will be forced to adapt to those findings. They'd also be able to get patents and even win a Nobel prize in "god theory".

But if all they have is claims based on personal bias, tradition, and faith, all they are telling me is that they have claims they like believing. That is why "faith" cannot be equated to evidence. Rights are separate from the ability to demonstrate the credibility of a claim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brian,

You've got as many rights as anybody to believe / not believe / whatever you want and like.  I think you must keep bringing up that "rights" thing as a way to explain to yourself your "prejudice" about supporting atheists with their odd beliefs (if they have a God off button) which I thought was a strange compromise on your part "reaching" for support of your unbelief.  But there were no human rights in that - just pointing to your inconsistency in my view.

You call for proof of God and a lab manual for a "re-creatable experiment" that trots God out for your viewing pleasure.  Well, since you are well schooled in your rights you can understand God's right in not giving you that.   You are created in His Image so you can understand it. 

You are out to destroy faith in God.  God is all about ramping us up into faith which enables us to accept His Gift and fellowship.  The parables of Jesus talk about ordinary things with the hope of us understanding unseen spiritual things for instance.  But, again, aren't you the clever one keeping constant guard lest you venture into something like...faith in God!

In the book of Job the arguments of the "three amigos" can be boiled down essentially to "if you're rich, you're righteous - if calamity strikes you've done something wrong - it just needs to be discovered".  It's kind of a test similar to what you're demanding.  Job eventially lays the fact on them that, maybe they don't get out much, or maybe they've noticed that there are wicked men that waltz through life, have property they will to their kids, do heinous rotten arrogant things to other people - yet these wicked aren't visibly bothered by God - this fact if faced honestly would destroy their concept of "self righteousness."  

And Job was puzzled why this had all happened to him, but... light is breaking - that God is testing him (testing his faith) for a reason (when He has tried me I shall come forth as gold). 

I don't understand why God does and doesn't do certain things - but with Job we are given a backstage pass (Satan bet Job would cave, God bet Job would win), God restored Job's wealth, added more, chewed out the three amigos, provided a source of comfort for suffering millions, and answered the question again, 'does God KNOW What He's doing or what!!!'

Now, let me ask you.  What do you think would be the result if every time somebody did something good on earth they were rewarded by God and vice versa.  How would you tell who was genuine and who was a todie?  It would be in vogue to do good and get rich - just like it's in vogue on this website to parade unbelief and shore up yourself with odd atheist faiths,  quote Hawkins and flaunt your rights.  The earth is a testing ground for our faith in God - but you have developed a self-deluded prejudice against the faith that would get you somewhere you don't want to go - which is your right.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Fonzie, I really do not know

Fonzie, I really do not know how many times I have to repeat myself. If you get one thing out of this thread or website, or simple basic knowledge about "rights", please learn one thing.

Rights ARE NOT the issue. Rights are a matter of government protecting you. I am FOR your rights. That still is a separate issue than the ability to demonstrate the credibility of ANY claim you make on ANY subject.

FOR EXAMPLE,

I claim " The New York Yankees won the Superbowl".

Would you stupidly buy that claim at face value? No you would not. Because you know the Yankees play baseball and the Superbowl is American football. Now while you may not stop me from repeating that claim, you will still have every right to call it bullshit.

Now for the last time. If you want to claim that your god is an invisible pink unicorn. Or your god is Allah, or your god is Vishnu, or your god is Frank. I WILL NOT STOP YOU FROM MAKING THOSE CLAIMS. But that does not stop me from calling bullshit on any of those claims.

The ability to string words together and make sound waves come out of your mouth, does not make the claims that come out of your mouth true by default.

I claim "My car runs on pixy dust"

You, " You can claim that all you want but it is still busllshit".

Please tell me you are not that dense as to not understand the difference between legal rights and ability to demonstrate the credibility of what you claim? It really is not hard to separate the two.

I tell you your god claims are not true for the same reason you reject claims of Thor making lightening, or Vishnu being a real god. Legally everyone should be protected to make whatever claims they want, but that does not make the claim true becuase someone has the right to claim it. Other people also have the right to respond to the claims you make.

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Oh and  you think the story

Oh and  you think the story of Job is moral? Just like Adam and Eve, mere poker chips in a bet between God and Satan, no concent on their part, just property. You think I should value a story where the powers over me simply can make my life hell, when I have no say in the matter, then expect me to kiss that person's ass becuase they finally stop beating me? Sorry, I find no moral value in any motif or story, that treats humans like pawns.

Do yourself a favor seriously, take your beer goggles off for once, and actually pick up that book and read it all the way through from the first page to the last page without cherry picking it. You really need to ask yourself if a human did what God does to humans, would you find that moral?

If I for example, was your boss at work, and one of your co workers made a bet with me that they could ruin your job, make you lose it, cause you to be homeless. And I admitted I took that bet with them, would you want to come back and work for me? Personally if someone fucked me over like that, I would hate them, I would not come crawling back to them.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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(Poe)

As each spun the thread in their own loop, it remained quite easy...

 

Quote:
Fonzie, I really do not know how many times I have to repeat myself.

Atheists have been repeating themselves since this thread started, and it hasn't dented my faith yet.  Repeating yourself now still won't work for you.

 

Quote:
I claim " The New York Yankees won the Superbowl".

Would you stupidly buy that claim at face value? No you would not. Because you know the Yankees play baseball and the Superbowl is American football. Now while you may not stop me from repeating that claim, you will still have every right to call it bullshit.

Now for the last time. If you want to claim that your god is an invisible pink unicorn. Or your god is Allah, or your god is Vishnu, or your god is Frank. I WILL NOT STOP YOU FROM MAKING THOSE CLAIMS. But that does not stop me from calling bullshit on any of those claims.

 All those claims are false.  But if I claim that my god is the True god, then obviously it's true.  

 

Quote:
Please tell me you are not that dense as to not understand the difference between legal rights and ability to demonstrate the credibility of what you claim? It really is not hard to separate the two.
As the Constitution states, Rights are self-evident and god-given, so they are inseparable.

 

Quote:
Oh and you think the story of Job is moral?]Just like Adam and Eve, mere poker chips in a bet between God and Satan, no concent on their part, just property.
 jesus pushed all his chips in for us, and hit the jackpot.  You only have to ante your faith to get your table share, or you can roll Snake Eyes like Eve did in the garden.  

 

Quote:
If I for example, was your boss at work, and one of your co workers made a bet with me that they could ruin your job, make you lose it, cause you to be homeless. And I admitted I took that bet with them, would you want to come back and work for me? Personally if someone fucked me over like that, I would hate them, I would not come crawling back to them.
You left out the part where the Boss puts his Son up as collateral.

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
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zarathustra wrote:As each

zarathustra wrote:

As each spun the thread in their own loop, it remained quite easy...

 

Quote:
Fonzie, I really do not know how many times I have to repeat myself.

Atheists have been repeating themselves since this thread started, and it hasn't dented my faith yet.  Repeating yourself now still won't work for you.

 

Quote:
I claim " The New York Yankees won the Superbowl".

Would you stupidly buy that claim at face value? No you would not. Because you know the Yankees play baseball and the Superbowl is American football. Now while you may not stop me from repeating that claim, you will still have every right to call it bullshit.

Now for the last time. If you want to claim that your god is an invisible pink unicorn. Or your god is Allah, or your god is Vishnu, or your god is Frank. I WILL NOT STOP YOU FROM MAKING THOSE CLAIMS. But that does not stop me from calling bullshit on any of those claims.

 All those claims are false.  But if I claim that my god is the True god, then obviously it's true.  

 

Quote:
Please tell me you are not that dense as to not understand the difference between legal rights and ability to demonstrate the credibility of what you claim? It really is not hard to separate the two.
As the Constitution states, Rights are self-evident and god-given, so they are inseparable.

 

Quote:
Oh and you think the story of Job is moral?]Just like Adam and Eve, mere poker chips in a bet between God and Satan, no concent on their part, just property.
 jesus pushed all his chips in for us, and hit the jackpot.  You only have to ante your faith to get your table share, or you can roll Snake Eyes like Eve did in the garden.  

 

Quote:
If I for example, was your boss at work, and one of your co workers made a bet with me that they could ruin your job, make you lose it, cause you to be homeless. And I admitted I took that bet with them, would you want to come back and work for me? Personally if someone fucked me over like that, I would hate them, I would not come crawling back to them.
You left out the part where the Boss puts his Son up as collateral.

Repeat a lie enough people will faslely believe it. I think it is stupid to assume an atheist using the tactic of repeating a challenge to naked assertions never works at all. If a theist can use repetition to sell an invisible sky hero, why shouldn't skeptics and scientists and atheists use that same repetition to counter bullshit claims? If our species never questioned social norms we'd still believe the earth was flat and blacks would still be slaves.

I have been at this for 13 years day in and day out. I have met over the years pleanty of former fundies, of all labels, former Christains and x Muslims as well.

If Fonzie never changes his position, that would not shock me. But to assume the atheist challenges never works is absurd otherwise you would not see x-believer groups in social media at all. The goal in all this isn't to gain a convert on the spot in the moment.

Instead of criticisng my tactic, do your own thing to which you are comfortable with. I think you miss the point that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Quote:As the Constitution

Quote:
As the Constitution states, Rights are self-evident and god-given, so they are inseparable.

Nope, you will not find in the Constitution beyond lip service ceremonial crap, any statement that our laws are riped out of the bible. I agree that they do argue that with "endowed by their Creator" (which is the Declairation of Independence and not the Constitution), the part they forget is that "their" was a statement of individualilty in the mind of the individual and not a statement of our government playing favorites to Jesus or Christianity. First Amendment is an anti monopoly anti trust law. "No Religious Test" in the oath of office, and the Barbary Treaty article 11, not to mention Jefferson's letters mentioning the "wall" separating church from state.

Saying believers argue we are a "Christian Nation" is true. But it is still a lie that our founders set up a religious pecking order giving favortism to Christianity.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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WHERE YOU GET YOUR PIZZA IS UP or down TO YOU

Brian37 wrote:

Fonzie, I really do not know how many times I have to repeat myself. If you get one thing out of this thread or website, or simple basic knowledge about "rights", please learn one thing.

Rights ARE NOT the issue. Rights are a matter of government protecting you. I am FOR your rights. That still is a separate issue than the ability to demonstrate the credibility of ANY claim you make on ANY subject.

FOR EXAMPLE,

I claim " The New York Yankees won the Superbowl".

Would you stupidly buy that claim at face value? No you would not. Because you know the Yankees play baseball and the Superbowl is American football. Now while you may not stop me from repeating that claim, you will still have every right to call it bullshit.

Now for the last time. If you want to claim that your god is an invisible pink unicorn. Or your god is Allah, or your god is Vishnu, or your god is Frank. I WILL NOT STOP YOU FROM MAKING THOSE CLAIMS. But that does not stop me from calling bullshit on any of those claims.

The ability to string words together and make sound waves come out of your mouth, does not make the claims that come out of your mouth true by default.

I claim "My car runs on pixy dust"

You, " You can claim that all you want but it is still busllshit".

Please tell me you are not that dense as to not understand the difference between legal rights and ability to demonstrate the credibility of what you claim? It really is not hard to separate the two.

I tell you your god claims are not true for the same reason you reject claims of Thor making lightening, or Vishnu being a real god. Legally everyone should be protected to make whatever claims they want, but that does not make the claim true becuase someone has the right to claim it. Other people also have the right to respond to the claims you make.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brian,

As far as identifying bovine excrement your sense of smell is affected by the  position you are holding and stirring afresh.  I wouldn't call a septic tank guy to deliver a pizza even if it's half off.  

And you won't be the "go to guy" on the question of God with me.  

After you go on and on about what's NOT the issue you illustrate more ignorance on the subject of God than the bull you got your conclusion from.  The bull knows his master - you don't.     

 

 

 

 


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YOU CAN'T LAND THE PLANE AMIGO

Vastet wrote:
Yay I finally get a response. I was about to stop looking for one. But first...
Brian37 wrote:
What loop am I stuck in? That it makes more sense that blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
I converted most of what you said into blah's to show where I stopped reading. I obviously still read more of your post than you did of mine, else you'd have noticed I WASN'T FUCKING TALKING TO YOU, ASSHOLE. FUCK OFF. Sorry for the interruption Fonzie, it had to be done. You seem smarter than Brian37, so I'm sure you'd agree.
Fonzie wrote:
I don't think it's possible to function in life without an ongoing faith in something (s).  Even if SAID  faith is in the wrong thing it is still an ongoing (dedicated or undedicated) - living, breathing, moving pursuit (which may lead to an honest conclusion "fail" - change of direction - different focus  - another faith - but still necessary faith to carry on).
Why not? I have no faith, yet I still function. I have no faith in gods, I have no faith in our society, and what little faith I have in our species is mostly based in hope. I keep going. I don't fear death, and may welcome it one day, but I don't seek it out. My survival instinct is very strong, fighting it wouldn't defeat it. I love people, and I love life. I only get one so far as I know, so why not use it to learn as much as I can and to experience good things? I might not matter to the universe entire in the slightest, but so what? I matter to me. I matter to those who care about me. I even matter to some who hate me. THAT is all that matters. Not faith, not atheism, nothing else matters but us. Unless or until we encounter intelligent life, at which point them as well.
Fonzie wrote:
You can't deny that faith is  breath to life - we walk steadily by faith into the unknown future, not knowing even how we walk or exactly where... 
I would deny that faith is necessary for it. Curiosity works well enough. The desire to be different also works. There's lots of things that work as well or better than faith.
Fonzie wrote:
I think you try to blank it out in your zeal to deny God or - faith in God - because  to admit faith in anything would be a suspicion, leave a blank or a vacuum or a question, that you are treating something as a god, (which I say confidently you are).  In the most personal sense you are trusting in your own perception of everything you have accepted as trustworthy and extrapolate that expericne and ongoing  venture of faith forward into the unknown future.  
Oh well done. No other theist has come so close to the truth. No atheist either, now that I think on it. Not without help anyway. You don't have it perfect, but that you come so close is truly remarkable. Yes, I think the closest thing to a god is myself. I don't have any special powers or knowledge, I'm not better than everyone at anything. But I make my choices, I live my life. The only power anyone holds on me is power I allow them to have. I have the power to take it away. I can kill life, or I can create it. I can build, or I can destroy. Everything I can do is MY power. I can't control others, because they are gods of roughly equal power. They have all the abilities and limitations I have, they just pertain to themselves instead of me. I didn't create the word god. And had I never been introduced to it, I'd never have come up with this philosophy. But one day I'd heard god mentioned one time too many, so I looked into what god was. Only two things that exist really qualified. Myself and the sun that grants life to this world. The sun was the creator, and I take over from there. I and all the other billions of gods that roam the Earth. I don't worship myself or pray to myself. I am intellectually aware that I'm not 'better' than anyone or anything. I have faith in myself, though that faith is not unconditional. I know my limits, and I know I can fail. But as long as I fit the definition of god better than anyone or anything else, I claim it. If I ever run into an omnipotent being I'll have to change my philosophy some, but as it hasn't happened yet I won't be losing any sleep over it.

 

 

 

 

 

Vas,

"the righteous shall live by his faith"  - This is the living way God has provided in case a man ever wants to be saved.  This message came to Habakkuk - a prophet with a question.  This statement is the key doctrine in Romans (faith in the Righteousness of God in Christ not your own righteousness), Galatians (justified by faith no man justified by law)  and Hebrews (i needs to be a living faith) and could be said key to the whole Bible.  

You ask for proof for faith but there are  events in Scripture that show proof is not the problem.  In the gospel of John when Jesus called Lazarus out of the tomb, "many of the Jews therefore, who had come with Mary and had seen what He did believed in Him, but some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done.  So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the council and said 'what are we to do?  For this man performs many signs'..."  This enemy testimony shows proof is not the problem.  

As Jesus said in the parable, "they have Moses and the prophets.  If they don't believe them neither will they believe if one rises from the dead."  

Your problem is not proof.  It's unbelief (as far as faith in God).  You have a substitute thing going, faith in yourself.  But you are flying an airplane you can't land - and that's most important.  

 

 

 


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Things are never as they seem Looking back from a New Direction



 

  Extrospection [ex·tro·spec·tion]  .. the consideration and observation of things external to the self; examination and study of externals.


 

 

  Re :: Things are never as they seem Looking back from a New Direction  (Looking back from a New Direction)
 


   Subject that came across the  radar  ::  Bereavement -- Bereavement is the period of grief and mourning after a death

  First comic relief

  YouTube of Lott's Wife ::  www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyMAa4JG8Ww {www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyMAa4JG8Ww}
 

   I should be so very disturbed by this very black-hearted, devilish, and deeply troubled video; however, forget about it .. it does actual become campish enough to be funny (serious humor), thought it wasn't all funny.

 



  

Orphic poem The death of Eurydice

 

   Some parallels are to be sought, in the Story of Savitri & Satyavan  (Romantic Stories  from Hindu Literature) short examples are found at such URLs like ::   hinduism.about.com/od/scripturesepics/a/lovelegends_3.htm

  In the death of Eurydice, you all recall the story where Orpheus finds the death of his wife Eurydice (also known as Argiope). ''While walking among her people, the Cicones, in tall grass at her wedding, Eurydice was set upon by a satyr. In her efforts to escape the satyr, Eurydice fell into a nest of vipers and suffered a fatal bite on her heel'' Her body was discovered by Orpheus who, overcome with grief, played such sad and mournful songs that all the nymphs and gods wept. On their advice, Orpheus travelled to the underworld (Quote) O Gods who rule the dark and silent world, To you all born of a woman needs must come.All lovely things at last go down to you.You are the debtor who is always paid. A little while we tarry up on earth. May she shine as brilliantly as the sunlight!.. follow the right path under you! Then we are yours forever and forever. But I seek one who came to you too soon. The bud was plucked before the flower bloomed. I tried to bear my loss. I could not bear it. Love was too strong a god, O King, you know If that old tale men tell is true, how once The flowers saw the rape of Proserpine, Then weave again for sweet Eurydice  Life's pattern that was taken from the loom Too quick'' At the playing Eurydice was to return with him to the upper-world and life on one condition: he should walk in front of her and not look back until they both had reached the upper world. He set off with Eurydice following, and, in his anxiety, as soon as he reached the upper world, he turned to look at her, forgetting that both needed to be in the upper world, and she vanished for the second time, but now forever.

 



 Unrelated (sort of,) 

       For  Your Heart  . .  (I wait for your Heart) ::
 

  Above    Heritage of crossed swords, an-Image finds purely representational, "Art imitates Life far more than Life imitates Art".

  From the Darker aspects of the Tragic Anime story's twin (See: Image of the two girls) . It was the Hertiage of crossed swords,  the  sword of damocles  for the tragic Lower Soul;  the  sword of solomon  for the tragic Higher Soul.


 


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Fonzie wrote:"the righteous

Fonzie wrote:
"the righteous shall live by his faith"  - This is the living way God has provided in case a man ever wants to be saved.  This message came to Habakkuk - a prophet with a question.  This statement is the key doctrine in Romans (faith in the Righteousness of God in Christ not your own righteousness), Galatians (justified by faith no man justified by law)  and Hebrews (i needs to be a living faith) and could be said key to the whole Bible.

It's illogical. One must be exposed to the faith in order to even have a hope of coming to it. If you could show me a single person that became a christian without ever having been exposed to christianity then the suggestion might have some merit. But you can't. So the obvious conclusion is that the christian god doesn't give a damn what happens to most people.

Fonzie wrote:
You ask for proof for faith but there are  events in Scripture that show proof is not the problem.  In the gospel of John when Jesus called Lazarus out of the tomb, "many of the Jews therefore, who had come with Mary and had seen what He did believed in Him, but some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done.  So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the council and said 'what are we to do?  For this man performs many signs'..."  This enemy testimony shows proof is not the problem.

No, it shows people can manipulate events to come to a different conclusion. But there are limits. In the story you reference, jesus can't defend himself to the pharisees (I haven't read the story, I'm taking your word on it). What would they have done if a giant fire in the sky had pronounced to them that jesus was a real son of god? Or even better, a voice from the heavens said as much to all the people, so there was no opportunity for the leaders to manipulate the message before the people received it. Why did your god limit the message if it was so important? Why did the people in North and South America remain completely oblivious to this message for more than a thousand years before christians crossed the ocean and told them?

My lack of belief in your god is based on a lack of proof for your god. As well as all the evidence pointing away from it. I can't have belief in the unbelievable. All gods are unbelievable.

Fonzie wrote:
As Jesus said in the parable, "they have Moses and the prophets.  If they don't believe them neither will they believe if one rises from the dead."  

Your problem is not proof.  It's unbelief (as far as faith in God).  You have a substitute thing going, faith in yourself.  But you are flying an airplane you can't land - and that's most important.

I have faith in myself because it works. It actually allows me to accomplish things, or understand why I failed when I fail to. Faith in a god does nothing.
I'll believe in my capacity to land a plane safely over depending on your god to do it for me any day. At least if I try I might walk away from it. If I depend on a god, the plane will crash and I will die, guaranteed.

If you really have faith in your god, you'd just sit in your seat and hope for the best, while someone else runs to the cockpit to give a landing a shot. And sadly, if they pull it off, you won't waste a second thanking them. You'll immediately assume god sent them to save you and spend an hour thanking your god instead of treating the real hero to a few drinks at the nearest bar.

I may not know how to land, but at least I can fly. Which is more than I can say for you.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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And it came to pass (yet again)...that it was still quite easy...

 

Quote:
If you could show me a single person that became a christian without ever having been exposed to christianity then the suggestion might have some merit. But you can't. So the obvious conclusion is that the christian god doesn't give a damn what happens to most people.
We have all been exposed to christ since we were created in His image.  Some of us shield ourselves from the exposure with the Fig Leaf of Sin.  god gives a damn, but then offers to save us from it with the gift of faith.

 

Quote:
Why did the people in North and South America remain completely oblivious to this message for more than a thousand years before christians crossed the ocean and told them?
We are imperfect beings, and cannot comprehend the reasons why a perfect god spreads his message in this way.

 

Quote:
I'll believe in my capacity to land a plane safely over depending on your god to do it for me any day.
god helps those who help themselves. 



 

There are no theists on operating tables.

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HE WHO THROUGH FAITH IS RIGHTEOUS SHALL LIVE

Vastet wrote:
Fonzie wrote:
"the righteous shall live by his faith"  - This is the living way God has provided in case a man ever wants to be saved.  This message came to Habakkuk - a prophet with a question.  This statement is the key doctrine in Romans (faith in the Righteousness of God in Christ not your own righteousness), Galatians (justified by faith no man justified by law)  and Hebrews (i needs to be a living faith) and could be said key to the whole Bible.
It's illogical. One must be exposed to the faith in order to even have a hope of coming to it. If you could show me a single person that became a christian without ever having been exposed to christianity then the suggestion might have some merit. But you can't. So the obvious conclusion is that the christian god doesn't give a damn what happens to most people.
Fonzie wrote:
You ask for proof for faith but there are  events in Scripture that show proof is not the problem.  In the gospel of John when Jesus called Lazarus out of the tomb, "many of the Jews therefore, who had come with Mary and had seen what He did believed in Him, but some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done.  So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the council and said 'what are we to do?  For this man performs many signs'..."  This enemy testimony shows proof is not the problem.
No, it shows people can manipulate events to come to a different conclusion. But there are limits. In the story you reference, jesus can't defend himself to the pharisees (I haven't read the story, I'm taking your word on it). What would they have done if a giant fire in the sky had pronounced to them that jesus was a real son of god? Or even better, a voice from the heavens said as much to all the people, so there was no opportunity for the leaders to manipulate the message before the people received it. Why did your god limit the message if it was so important? Why did the people in North and South America remain completely oblivious to this message for more than a thousand years before christians crossed the ocean and told them? My lack of belief in your god is based on a lack of proof for your god. As well as all the evidence pointing away from it. I can't have belief in the unbelievable. All gods are unbelievable.
Fonzie wrote:
As Jesus said in the parable, "they have Moses and the prophets.  If they don't believe them neither will they believe if one rises from the dead."   Your problem is not proof.  It's unbelief (as far as faith in God).  You have a substitute thing going, faith in yourself.  But you are flying an airplane you can't land - and that's most important.
I have faith in myself because it works. It actually allows me to accomplish things, or understand why I failed when I fail to. Faith in a god does nothing. I'll believe in my capacity to land a plane safely over depending on your god to do it for me any day. At least if I try I might walk away from it. If I depend on a god, the plane will crash and I will die, guaranteed. If you really have faith in your god, you'd just sit in your seat and hope for the best, while someone else runs to the cockpit to give a landing a shot. And sadly, if they pull it off, you won't waste a second thanking them. You'll immediately assume god sent them to save you and spend an hour thanking your god instead of treating the real hero to a few drinks at the nearest bar. I may not know how to land, but at least I can fly. Which is more than I can say for you.

 

 

 

 

Vas,

Yes there is a place for hearing and preaching, people being sent to preach.  "But I ask, have they not heard?  Indeed they have, for 'Their voice has gone out to all the earth and their words to the ends of the world'."

And you are no exception.  You have heard the gospel... and rejected it in favor of the psychological life you now have which maybe you think is as good as it gets. Maybe you're like these Greeks that came to take a look at Jesus after He had raised Lazarus.  Jesus made an interesting statement to them.  "Truly truly I say to you unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit.  Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life."  

You have life on a certain level, maybe it could be described as psychological I don't know.  But you don't really know Jesus or really know life because you aren't willing to die to yourself and be born anew into Him and be raised to the life that is life indeed - spiritual life in Christ.  You have the seed which you love and won't plant so it can die and spring up to eternal life.  

As far as a life of faith being courageous or cowardly as you mis-represent it (hijacking the plane metaphor to justify your position) - the lives of men who lived by faith and didn't shrink back speaks for itself: they stopped the mouth of lions, they were made strong out of weakness, ...etc.  all these, though commended through their faith did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us that apart from us they should not be made perfect.  

God has offered His Son and the Gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit to those of us who are "born anew" into Christ Jesus.  We are surrounded by a "great cloud of witnesses" and are exhorted and challenged to lay aside every weight and run with endurance the race that is set before us - like Jesus, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the Cross, despising the shame and is now seated at the Right Hand of the Throne of God.  

We are exhorted to live by faith - and if we shrink back God doesn't take pleasure in it.  He will discipline us however and train us and coach us so we won't shrink into the cowardice you describe - if we will accept it and be trained by it.  We have a living relationship with Jesus, Light, Strength - through faith in Him.  

The fool however folds his hands and eats his own flesh - kind of like eating the seed rather than planting it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Oh cool, this thread is

Oh cool, this thread is still active.

Hi Fonzie!

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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AFTER 4TH FIREWORKS

butterbattle wrote:

Oh cool, this thread is still active.

Hi Fonzie!

 

 

Hi Miss B,

I just read your blog.  What sets off your short fuse?


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Hi Butter! Good to see

Hi Butter! Good to see you!

Fonzie wrote:
Yes there is a place for hearing and preaching, people being sent to preach.  "But I ask, have they not heard?  Indeed they have, for 'Their voice has gone out to all the earth and their words to the ends of the world'."

Demonstrably false, as it took more than a thousand years for the message to cross the ocean, and there are still people alive today who've never been told about christianity.

Fonzie wrote:
And you are no exception.  You have heard the gospel... and rejected it in favor of the psychological life you now have which maybe you think is as good as it gets.

I have not heard the gospel, whatever that is. I know your religion exists, but I learned about it after learning about Roman and Greek and Norse mythology. I found out about christianity about the same time as the moslems and jews. So I'd already been exposed to multiple gods, and the christian god was just another to add to the list. I rejected them all as lies, because that's what they are. Every religion I've rejected makes claims that are known to be false. I rejected them in favour of the truth, not for any other reason.

Fonzie wrote:
Maybe you're like these Greeks that came to take a look at Jesus after He had raised Lazarus.  Jesus made an interesting statement to them.  "Truly truly I say to you unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit.  Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life."

That doesn't make any sense.

Fonzie wrote:
You have life on a certain level, maybe it could be described as psychological I don't know.  But you don't really know Jesus or really know life because you aren't willing to die to yourself and be born anew into Him and be raised to the life that is life indeed - spiritual life in Christ.  You have the seed which you love and won't plant so it can die and spring up to eternal life.

Nothing is eternal. Entropy tears it all down. This is one of the lies that prove christianity false. I know life far better than any theist does, because I don't pretend it has qualities that are impossible.
The whole die to be born anew isn't even proper use of the terminology. Noone dies by taking up christianity. They certainly aren't born a second time. When theists have to hijack words to give them new meaning I just shake my head at the dramatising. How is it not obvious to you that it's all a bunch of hooey designed and tested and refined over thousands of years to tug at your emotions?

Fonzie wrote:
As far as a life of faith being courageous or cowardly as you mis-represent it (hijacking the plane metaphor to justify your position) - the lives of men who lived by faith and didn't shrink back speaks for itself: they stopped the mouth of lions, they were made strong out of weakness, ...etc.  all these, though commended through their faith did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

So faith can allow someone to stand in the face of death and laugh. So what? I can do that too, and I have no faith in a god or afterlife.
Faith has also allowed mothers to drown their babies and fathers to stone them. Faith is a two edged sword. It can do good, and it can do evil. Unquestioning belief in anything is dangerous. Especially something that has no evidence, that everyone and their mother can interpret differently.

Fonzie wrote:
God has offered His Son and the Gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit to those of us who are "born anew" into Christ Jesus.  We are surrounded by a "great cloud of witnesses" and are exhorted and challenged to lay aside every weight and run with endurance the race that is set before us - like Jesus, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the Cross, despising the shame and is now seated at the Right Hand of the Throne of God.  

We are exhorted to live by faith - and if we shrink back God doesn't take pleasure in it.  He will discipline us however and train us and coach us so we won't shrink into the cowardice you describe - if we will accept it and be trained by it.  We have a living relationship with Jesus, Light, Strength - through faith in Him.  

The fool however folds his hands and eats his own flesh - kind of like eating the seed rather than planting it.

You keep claiming god is a teacher, but he doesn't want to teach. What you have is comfort in a lie that allows you to mentally reject the inevitable and final death that awaits everyone. In and of itself that seems innocent and harmless enough to let you cling to your denial of reality. Unfortunately it has been coupled with the drive to force that belief on everyone else. Even if you personally don't subscribe to that practice, more christians do than don't.

The fool holds his own hands and rejects the reality of life and the universe to make himself feel like he is more than he is.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Fonzie wrote: Hi Miss B,I

Fonzie wrote:
 

Hi Miss B,

I just read your blog.  What sets off your short fuse?

Ooohhh, I didn't know what blog you were talking about and thought you had me confused with someone else at first. Then, I realized you were referring to the one I wrote here on this site. Wow, I wrote that back in 2009; that feels like so long ago to me.

Yes, I suppose I did have a tendency to lose my temper when arguing with people face to face. It was never a huge problem; at most, I raised my voice, fumed for a while afterwards, then calmed down. Still, it certainly wasn't one of my favorite personality traits. A number of things could have set me off, like any sort of disagreement where I became frustrated or I felt like the other person was too irrational or I felt like we couldn't communicate. I definitely feel like I've improved a lot since then though. In general, I'm probably more mature than I was, heh.  

I'm actually not a "Miss" either. I've just watched too much anime the last couple of years, so a lot of avatars are spontaneously turning into cute female characters, lol.

Edit: Yeah, if you look back far enough, I actually had at least two previous 'arguments' with you in this thread. This thread is ancient in terms of internet time, lol. 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Thank you so much for simply engaging w/ people our fonzie

Fonzie wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

Oh cool, this thread is still active.

Hi Fonzie!

 

 

Hi Miss B,

I just read your blog.  What sets off your short fuse?

  Http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15288?page=75 on Nu # 3761  Posted on: July 7th, 2014 -  #3761 and/or Url :: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15288?page=75#comment-411517

  To  0P ::  Off-site is other and not site-specific  But,  Hey  Fonzie Thank you so much for simply engaging w/ people Fonzie (Smiling)

 

  In the New Testament book of Romans it states we are to give honor where honor is due.

Romans 13:7 English Standard Version (ESV) ''Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed''

   What a nice change of pace from you Fonzie,  I  personally  like to see it  Smiling 





 

  Not that you asked but Pharisaical legalism arouses righteous indignation, and gets my goat. Problem is most people who fall into this pitfall will NEVER recognize it themselves at any time in the entirety of their whole lives.

 ''It's another instance of the eternal conflict between good and evil.. the Promise and the Lie"

Re :: What’s in a New Name . . .  (none will except scapegoating, for certain rip-offs)

 0ff-site --

 1 Peter 3:6 NASB  ..just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear

  Women of The Holy Bible

  As learned from the Torah, words and names are not given haphazardly. We can find,  In most cases, very clear meaning and insight into something or someone based on the name, though not always. So it is not superfluous that biblical Sarah had, in fact, in her lifetime, she had three names. With her, It appears that each time Sarah changed her name, it was symbolic of a greater spiritual refinement in your life-cycle.

 

 ‘’Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. And she had an Egyptian maid servant whose name was Hagar.  So Sarai said to Abram, “See now, the Lord has restrained me from bearing children. Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her.” And Abram heeded the voice of Sarai. Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan.  So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.  Then Sarai said to Abram, “My wrong,  be upon you! I gave my maid into your embrace; and when she saw that she had conceived, I became despised in her eyes. The Lord will judge between  you and me.” So Abram said to Sarai, “Indeed your maid is in your hand; do to her as you please.” And when Sarai dealt harshly with her . . . hence the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground,  and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree.  And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that  you may pass by,  inasmuch as you have come to your servant.” They said, “Do as you have said.”  So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, “Quickly, make ready three measures of fine meal; knead it and make cakes.”   And Abraham ran to the herd, took a tender and good calf, gave it to a young man, and he hastened to prepare it.  So he took  ghee and sacred milk  and  the calf which he had prepared, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate. Then they said to him, “Where is Sarah your wife?” So he said, “Here, in the tent.” And He said, “I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son’’  (And Sarah was listening in the tent door which was behind him.) Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; and Sarah had passed the age of childbearing.  Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?” And the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?’ Is anything too hard for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.” But Sarah denied it, saying, “I did not laugh,” fore she was afraid’’

 



 

 On-Site ::

 p.p.s. -- Any Anime fans,  I never bothered to hook up my Tv.  From the Bleach characters,  Hey  Did  Ichigo-Kurosaki  get his soul-reaper powers back yet .. Kamadhenu?


 

 

 


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Hey butter

 

butterbattle wrote:

Oh cool, this thread is still active.

Hi Fonzie!

 

How's it going? I think Fonzie has nearly 1000 posts in one thread. There should be some sort of award. 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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The Game of Trolls played on, with the same points asked and answered into perpetuity, though still unanswered were

or even 

Quote:
Which do you value more, the truth (a) or your beliefs (b)?

 

Yet it was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's....

 

Quote:
Demonstrably false, as it took more than a thousand years for the message to cross the ocean, and there are still people alive today who've never been told about christianity.
god's ways are not our ways.

 

Quote:
I found out about christianity about the same time as the moslems and jews. So I'd already been exposed to multiple gods, and the christian god was just another to add to the list.
Even the sapling of Truth will wither in a field that is already salted with false gods.  Like the fig tree jesus withered, it will bear fruit no more.

 

Quote:
I rejected them all as lies, because that's what they are. Every religion I've rejected makes claims that are known to be false. I rejected them in favour of the truth, not for any other reason.
You rejected the True Message through guilt by association.  

 

Quote:
The whole die to be born anew isn't even proper use of the terminology. Noone dies by taking up christianity. They certainly aren't born a second time. When theists have to hijack words to give them new meaning I just shake my head at the dramatising. How is it not obvious to you that it's all a bunch of hooey designed and tested and refined over thousands of years to tug at your emotions?
It is the proper terminology once your grammar has been baptized in the holy spirit.  Just as in Acts 2, when Jews from different parts of the Greek-speaking world all understood the apostles, each in their native tongue (Greek).  jesus is tugging my soul into heaven, and that is no bunch of hooey.

 

Quote:
Faith has also allowed mothers to drown their babies and fathers to stone them. Faith is a two edged sword. It can do good, and it can do evil. Unquestioning belief in anything is dangerous. Especially something that has no evidence, that everyone and their mother can interpret differently.
god gave us the gift of faith as an instrument of good, but even good instruments can be used for bad when sin is in the world.  But you do not then blame the instrument.

 

Quote:
The fool holds his own hands and rejects the reality of life and the universe to make himself feel like he is more than he is.
Psalm 14:1-7

 

 

 

 

 

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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I'm not wasting more time on

I'm not wasting more time on the troll. But I'll respond to Fonzie when he has a response.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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WISDOM TO ONE IS FOOLISHNESS TO ANOTHER

Vastet wrote:
Hi Butter! Good to see you!
Fonzie wrote:
Yes there is a place for hearing and preaching, people being sent to preach.  "But I ask, have they not heard?  Indeed they have, for 'Their voice has gone out to all the earth and their words to the ends of the world'."
Demonstrably false, as it took more than a thousand years for the message to cross the ocean, and there are still people alive today who've never been told about christianity.
Fonzie wrote:
And you are no exception.  You have heard the gospel... and rejected it in favor of the psychological life you now have which maybe you think is as good as it gets.
I have not heard the gospel, whatever that is. I know your religion exists, but I learned about it after learning about Roman and Greek and Norse mythology. I found out about christianity about the same time as the moslems and jews. So I'd already been exposed to multiple gods, and the christian god was just another to add to the list. I rejected them all as lies, because that's what they are. Every religion I've rejected makes claims that are known to be false. I rejected them in favour of the truth, not for any other reason.
Fonzie wrote:
Maybe you're like these Greeks that came to take a look at Jesus after He had raised Lazarus.  Jesus made an interesting statement to them.  "Truly truly I say to you unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit.  Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life."
That doesn't make any sense.
Fonzie wrote:
You have life on a certain level, maybe it could be described as psychological I don't know.  But you don't really know Jesus or really know life because you aren't willing to die to yourself and be born anew into Him and be raised to the life that is life indeed - spiritual life in Christ.  You have the seed which you love and won't plant so it can die and spring up to eternal life.
Nothing is eternal. Entropy tears it all down. This is one of the lies that prove christianity false. I know life far better than any theist does, because I don't pretend it has qualities that are impossible. The whole die to be born anew isn't even proper use of the terminology. Noone dies by taking up christianity. They certainly aren't born a second time. When theists have to hijack words to give them new meaning I just shake my head at the dramatising. How is it not obvious to you that it's all a bunch of hooey designed and tested and refined over thousands of years to tug at your emotions?
Fonzie wrote:
As far as a life of faith being courageous or cowardly as you mis-represent it (hijacking the plane metaphor to justify your position) - the lives of men who lived by faith and didn't shrink back speaks for itself: they stopped the mouth of lions, they were made strong out of weakness, ...etc.  all these, though commended through their faith did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
So faith can allow someone to stand in the face of death and laugh. So what? I can do that too, and I have no faith in a god or afterlife. Faith has also allowed mothers to drown their babies and fathers to stone them. Faith is a two edged sword. It can do good, and it can do evil. Unquestioning belief in anything is dangerous. Especially something that has no evidence, that everyone and their mother can interpret differently.
Fonzie wrote:
God has offered His Son and the Gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit to those of us who are "born anew" into Christ Jesus.  We are surrounded by a "great cloud of witnesses" and are exhorted and challenged to lay aside every weight and run with endurance the race that is set before us - like Jesus, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the Cross, despising the shame and is now seated at the Right Hand of the Throne of God.   We are exhorted to live by faith - and if we shrink back God doesn't take pleasure in it.  He will discipline us however and train us and coach us so we won't shrink into the cowardice you describe - if we will accept it and be trained by it.  We have a living relationship with Jesus, Light, Strength - through faith in Him.   The fool however folds his hands and eats his own flesh - kind of like eating the seed rather than planting it.
You keep claiming god is a teacher, but he doesn't want to teach. What you have is comfort in a lie that allows you to mentally reject the inevitable and final death that awaits everyone. In and of itself that seems innocent and harmless enough to let you cling to your denial of reality. Unfortunately it has been coupled with the drive to force that belief on everyone else. Even if you personally don't subscribe to that practice, more christians do than don't. The fool holds his own hands and rejects the reality of life and the universe to make himself feel like he is more than he is.

 

 

 

 

 

Vas,

The gospel (Good News) is the mystery God hid for ages now revealed in the Perfect Life, Redeeming Death and subsequent Resurrection of Jesus Christ.  Prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit to give prophecies about it, inquired as to the meaning of what they were prophesying but it wasn't explained - that God was going to send His Son to be sacrificed and become the Lamb of God that pays the price for all the sins of all mankind for all time - for those who believe in Him God counts faith as Righteousness.   It was the death of Death - Death had nothing on Him (NO SIN)  and He Rose to an Indestructible Life, never to die again, ascended into heaven, sent the Holy Spirit, is coming back, etc, etc.      

The difference of trying to live and pay for your own sins versus receiving God's Righteousness which is a Gift (and walking by faith) - is worlds apart.  Since the Righteousness of God is a Gift and always a Gift a governor is provided for the attitude.  To receive the gospel in faith gives power to avoid the legalistic thinking and hypocritical behavior of the self righteous Pharisee types.  

BUT...you're not interested in any of this and have your reasons why - reasons that satisfy you there in Canada, (or satisfy the Canadian in you).  

I don't have any eloquence or divine revelation that can change you or that or out debate you.  I could wish I did but know that's not the way things work.  The Bible says that when you hear the gospel and either believe it or don't believe it you judge yourself worthy or unworthy (before God).  The gospel is as good as it gets - and it's good enough for me.  In it I see more than enough proof that God will do what He says, Knows what He's doing, Loves and has man's best interests in mind in every way...but that's just me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Vastet
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Fonzie wrote:WISDOM TO ONE

Fonzie wrote:
WISDOM TO ONE IS FOOLISHNESS TO ANOTHER

That sword cuts two ways.

Fonzie wrote:
The gospel (Good News) is the mystery God hid for ages now revealed in the Perfect Life, Redeeming Death and subsequent Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1: Why would god hide it?
2: Perfection doesn't exist.
3: Redemption can only come from changing while you live. Once dead, it is too late.
4: Ressurection is impossible.

Fonzie wrote:
Prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit to give prophecies about it, inquired as to the meaning of what they were prophesying but it wasn't explained.

No prophecy which is not subject to interpretation has ever come true. Prophecies subject to interpretation are wrong and right simultaneously, but irrelevant because anyone can make such a prophecy.

Fonzie wrote:
that God was going to send His Son to be sacrificed and become the Lamb of God that pays the price for all the sins of all mankind for all time

First of all, the death of one person cannot pay the price for the sins of an entire species.
Secondly, death cannot pay the price for any sin anyway.
Thirdly, the idea that all mankind was corrupted because of the choice of one person is ridiculous.

Fonzie wrote:
It was the death of Death - Death had nothing on Him

Death won't die until everything is dead, if such is even possible.

Fonzie wrote:
and He Rose to an Indestructible Life, never to die again, ascended into heaven, sent the Holy Spirit, is coming back, etc, etc.  

Nothing is indestructable. Not even nothing, in theory.
There is no heaven. Ascend too high and you freeze to death and suffocate simultaneously.
No dead hero ever has nor ever will return.

Fonzie wrote:
The difference of trying to live and pay for your own sins versus receiving God's Righteousness which is a Gift (and walking by faith) - is worlds apart.

I agree. Living with the sins of your god is much different than living responsibly. If god wants to give me something all he has to do is say so.

Fonzie wrote:
BUT...you're not interested in any of this and have your reasons why - reasons that satisfy you there in Canada, (or satisfy the Canadian in you).

Canada has nothing to do with this discussion.

Fonzie wrote:
I don't have any eloquence or divine revelation that can change you or that or out debate you.  I could wish I did but know that's not the way things work.  The Bible says that when you hear the gospel and either believe it or don't believe it you judge yourself worthy or unworthy (before God).  The gospel is as good as it gets - and it's good enough for me.  In it I see more than enough proof that God will do what He says, Knows what He's doing, Loves and has man's best interests in mind in every way...but that's just me.

Well not me. I've not read the whole bible and I never will, because the characterisation of god shows him to be evil. Job alone should be enough to turn any decent human being against god. No compassionate, loving being would treat someone so horribly just to make a point in an argument.
Mans future is in the hands of man. We've a long ways to go to becoming a species worth respect, but we've already come a long way from where we were. We might screw up and kill ourselves, or we might get things right one day and travel the universe. The only certainty is that no god has anything to do with our future. It is up to us.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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It was still quite easy...

Quote:
1: Why would god hide it?  

2: Perfection doesn't exist.

3: Redemption can only come from changing while you live. Once dead, it is too late.

4: Ressurection is impossible.

1. For reasons known only to god.

2. Except for god.

3. While you live, you can still change and accept christ's gift of redemption, or die unredemeed.

4. Except for jesus.

 

Quote:
First of all, the death of one person cannot pay the price for the sins of an entire species.
Unless the person is jesus, whose MSRP is infinite.

 

Quote:
Secondly, death cannot pay the price for any sin anyway.
Except if it's jesus.

   

Quote:
Thirdly, the idea that all mankind was corrupted because of the choice of one person is ridiculous.
Evolutionists believe in genetics, and we all received our sinful genes from Adam.

 

Quote:
I've not read the whole bible and I never will, because the characterisation of god shows him to be evil.
The bible says it's the word of god, and if you refuse to read the whole Word, it's no surprise you don't accept he who wrote the Word.

 

Yet for all Its preaching about jesus, the Troll refused to answer:

 

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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The troll continues despite

The troll continues despite being ignored, ironically.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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VASTLY DIFFERENT ROADS VASTET

Vastet wrote:
Fonzie wrote:
WISDOM TO ONE IS FOOLISHNESS TO ANOTHER
That sword cuts two ways.
Fonzie wrote:
The gospel (Good News) is the mystery God hid for ages now revealed in the Perfect Life, Redeeming Death and subsequent Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
1: Why would god hide it? 2: Perfection doesn't exist. 3: Redemption can only come from changing while you live. Once dead, it is too late. 4: Ressurection is impossible.
Fonzie wrote:
Prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit to give prophecies about it, inquired as to the meaning of what they were prophesying but it wasn't explained.
No prophecy which is not subject to interpretation has ever come true. Prophecies subject to interpretation are wrong and right simultaneously, but irrelevant because anyone can make such a prophecy.
Fonzie wrote:
that God was going to send His Son to be sacrificed and become the Lamb of God that pays the price for all the sins of all mankind for all time
First of all, the death of one person cannot pay the price for the sins of an entire species. Secondly, death cannot pay the price for any sin anyway. Thirdly, the idea that all mankind was corrupted because of the choice of one person is ridiculous.
Fonzie wrote:
It was the death of Death - Death had nothing on Him
Death won't die until everything is dead, if such is even possible.
Fonzie wrote:
and He Rose to an Indestructible Life, never to die again, ascended into heaven, sent the Holy Spirit, is coming back, etc, etc.  
Nothing is indestructable. Not even nothing, in theory. There is no heaven. Ascend too high and you freeze to death and suffocate simultaneously. No dead hero ever has nor ever will return.
Fonzie wrote:
The difference of trying to live and pay for your own sins versus receiving God's Righteousness which is a Gift (and walking by faith) - is worlds apart.
I agree. Living with the sins of your god is much different than living responsibly. If god wants to give me something all he has to do is say so.
Fonzie wrote:
BUT...you're not interested in any of this and have your reasons why - reasons that satisfy you there in Canada, (or satisfy the Canadian in you).
Canada has nothing to do with this discussion.
Fonzie wrote:
I don't have any eloquence or divine revelation that can change you or that or out debate you.  I could wish I did but know that's not the way things work.  The Bible says that when you hear the gospel and either believe it or don't believe it you judge yourself worthy or unworthy (before God).  The gospel is as good as it gets - and it's good enough for me.  In it I see more than enough proof that God will do what He says, Knows what He's doing, Loves and has man's best interests in mind in every way...but that's just me.
Well not me. I've not read the whole bible and I never will, because the characterisation of god shows him to be evil. Job alone should be enough to turn any decent human being against god. No compassionate, loving being would treat someone so horribly just to make a point in an argument. Mans future is in the hands of man. We've a long ways to go to becoming a species worth respect, but we've already come a long way from where we were. We might screw up and kill ourselves, or we might get things right one day and travel the universe. The only certainty is that no god has anything to do with our future. It is up to us.

 

 

 

 

Vas,

Well, you are definitely on a different road, categorically not believing everything I believe and have faith in... and believing and having faith in things I don't - and I have no reason to think you're not being honest about it.  

The questions you come up with "why did God do it this way?" are not questions to me at all.  God dwells in the heavens and does what He pleases just like you dwell in Canada or wherever and do what you please (since you're your own god) - and though I don't understand the why of a lot of it (and don't have to) I'm totally confident He Knows What He's doing.  And for me to not accept any trial that comes to me would be to say God doesn't know what He's doing.  I've been through things I didn't understand at the time but they proved to be great in the long run.    

We may have a Guiness record going on opposites...

I do appreciate the straightforward way you said it all without the extraneous stuff - let the reader understand -  but at the same time I have no doubts frankly that you're totally wrong.  These idols you have will fall off the shelf (actually get knocked off).  The Bible would be a great read investment for you.  If you get through Numbers you'll be well on your way. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Fonzie

Fonzie wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Vas,

Well, you are definitely on a different road, a dirty sinful road, ...you're in the category of categorically not believing everything I believe and have faith in... which is it's own seperate category.  Because I have faith in what I believe in and I believe in faith , and believing and having faith in things, you know what I'm sayin' ?     I have no reason to think you're not being honest about your awful, filthy sin.  Do you believe me ?

The questions you come up with "why did God do it this way?" are not questions to me at all.   Why ? ... because God doesn't like it when his lowly, sniveling servants like me start asking questions !  Besides, God scares the shit out of me, I mean Jesus ! have you read the Old Testament ? He's killed more people than the Devil ever thought about killing ! Smashing babies against rocks, killing first borns and drowing the whole damned world. He's like the world's most prolific serial killer.

 

Okay where was I ?    Oh yeah, ....God dwells in the heavens and does what He pleases just like you dwell in Canada, ... but God doesn't have a current passport so I don't think he lives in Canada at the moment.  I could be wrong, though.   Also, God told me to tell you to do what you please (since you're your own god) - and though I don't understand the why of a lot of it (and I don't have to 'cause I'm not very bright ) I'm totally confident he knows what He's doing ....even if he does it all wrong and screws everything up again.   And for me to not accept any trial that comes to me would be to say God doesn't know what He's doing.  I've been through things I didn't understand at the time but they proved to be great in the long run.  Except for all the stuff that didn't turn out good  ....but I don't want to talk about that.  I'm still kind of pissed off at God but I can't tell him since he's very emotionally unstable. You know "It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God" etc.

We may have a Guiness record going on opposites... but I'm probably just exaggerating to be dramatic.

I do appreciate the straightforward way you said I was a delusional idiot without all the extraneous stuff - let the reader understand -  but at the same time I have no doubts frankly that you're totally wrong, because that's what I believe, and believing you're wrong makes me feel right.     These idols you have will fall off the shelf (actually get knocked off, do you own cats ?).  The Bible would be a great read for you, especially when you can't fall asleep at night.  Just start reading and before you know it you'll be yawning.  If you get through Numbers you'll be well on your way to a good night's sleep.  That's what I believe, and I have faith, I have faith in what I believe and believing in faith strengthens my faith.  You better believe it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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PICK YOUR OWN NOSE PROZAC OR BLOW IT

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Vas,

Well, you are definitely on a different road, a dirty sinful road, ...you're in the category of categorically not believing everything I believe and have faith in... which is it's own seperate category.  Because I have faith in what I believe in and I believe in faith , and believing and having faith in things, you know what I'm sayin' ?     I have no reason to think you're not being honest about your awful, filthy sin.  Do you believe me ?

The questions you come up with "why did God do it this way?" are not questions to me at all.   Why ? ... because God doesn't like it when his lowly, sniveling servants like me start asking questions !  Besides, God scares the shit out of me, I mean Jesus ! have you read the Old Testament ? He's killed more people than the Devil ever thought about killing ! Smashing babies against rocks, killing first borns and drowing the whole damned world. He's like the world's most prolific serial killer.

 

Okay where was I ?    Oh yeah, ....God dwells in the heavens and does what He pleases just like you dwell in Canada, ... but God doesn't have a current passport so I don't think he lives in Canada at the moment.  I could be wrong, though.   Also, God told me to tell you to do what you please (since you're your own god) - and though I don't understand the why of a lot of it (and I don't have to 'cause I'm not very bright ) I'm totally confident he knows what He's doing ....even if he does it all wrong and screws everything up again.   And for me to not accept any trial that comes to me would be to say God doesn't know what He's doing.  I've been through things I didn't understand at the time but they proved to be great in the long run.  Except for all the stuff that didn't turn out good  ....but I don't want to talk about that.  I'm still kind of pissed off at God but I can't tell him since he's very emotionally unstable. You know "It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God" etc.

We may have a Guiness record going on opposites... but I'm probably just exaggerating to be dramatic.

I do appreciate the straightforward way you said I was a delusional idiot without all the extraneous stuff - let the reader understand -  but at the same time I have no doubts frankly that you're totally wrong, because that's what I believe, and believing you're wrong makes me feel right.     These idols you have will fall off the shelf (actually get knocked off, do you own cats ?).  The Bible would be a great read for you, especially when you can't fall asleep at night.  Just start reading and before you know it you'll be yawning.  If you get through Numbers you'll be well on your way to a good night's sleep.  That's what I believe, and I have faith, I have faith in what I believe and believing in faith strengthens my faith.  You better believe it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prozac,

Are you the new wave of identity theft?  You can pick your own nose but not your friend's nose.  I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate me speaking for you and putting your name on it.  

You can speak for Prozac, get to know Prozac someday, believe and not believe what you want if you want when you want - but you can't speak for me.  

Like the Swede, "IS THATA U-BOAT"?  SHE NOAH BELONGA TO ME! 

 

 

 

 


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"Correcting" someone else's post can lead to misunderstandings K

 ↑  Even if well meant, "correcting" someone else's post can potentially lead to misunderstandings or worse, and even other problems, so how about we don't do it. Plus, There's no reason if somebody missed the brackets or a had a small problem simply using the quote function  to quote another post, was forgotten.  The purpose? To show that minor mistake which was in the original; and was on the part of the person not making the quote. Here, you can easily see that the mistake was in the original so there is no need to point it out.
 

 ↑

     Why  don't  you talk about   the Biblical example  we find  in the OT's Sarah  instead ?

   Sarah’s faith  by John Foster  wrote :: Sarai had been unable to have children for many years. She decided to give her handmaid, Hagar, to her husband in order to obtain it by her. This was not how God intended, it was a matter of trusting God or not to trust Hime. So Sarai wanted the child so badly, she thought this was the means to give Abraham and Sarah herself an heir, but was a mistake approach from which they learned to more fully trust in God, Foster writes. Once Hagar had Ishmael, Abraham’s first son, Hagar despised Sarah. In return, Sarah dealt harshly with her handmaid. The relationship between Sarai and Hagar suffered because of a conflict that arose that came from all this. We find years passed. Ishmael, the baby, grew and had a relationship with his father only after a long delay. And still Sarah remained childless, though a child had arrived. Finally, when Sarah was roughtly 90 years old, God again promised her a son. At first, she laughed! God told Abraham: “‘I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son.’ (Sarah was listening in the tent door which was behind him)” (Genesis 18:10). Notice verses 12-13: “Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, ‘After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?’ And the LORD said to Abraham, ‘Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?’”The next sentence is most profound: “Is anything too hard for the LORD?” (emphasis added throughout).God can do anything! God is not hindered by physical limits. He transcends all things, and that is why He dogmatically stated, “At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son” (verse 14). (~ Foster),.

 

  1 Peter 3:6 NASB  ..just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear

   [ Quote ]  Women of The Holy Bible

  As learned from the Torah, words and names are not given haphazardly. We can find,  In most cases, very clear meaning and insight into something or someone based on the name, though not always. So it is not superfluous that biblical Sarah had, in fact, in her lifetime, she had three names. With her, It appears that each time Sarah changed her name, it was symbolic of a greater spiritual refinement in your life-cycle.

 

 ‘’Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. And she had an Egyptian maid servant whose name was Hagar.  So Sarai said to Abram, “See now, the Lord has restrained me from bearing children. Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her.” And Abram heeded the voice of Sarai. Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan.  So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.  Then Sarai said to Abram, “My wrong,  be upon you! I gave my maid into your embrace; and when she saw that she had conceived, I became despised in her eyes. The Lord will judge between  you and me.” So Abram said to Sarai, “Indeed your maid is in your hand; do to her as you please.” And when Sarai dealt harshly with her . . . hence the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground,  and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree.  And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that  you may pass by,  inasmuch as you have come to your servant.” They said, “Do as you have said.”  So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, “Quickly, make ready three measures of fine meal; knead it and make cakes.”   And Abraham ran to the herd, took a tender and good calf, gave it to a young man, and he hastened to prepare it.  So he took  ghee and sacred milk  and  the calf which he had prepared, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate. Then they said to him, “Where is Sarah your wife?” So he said, “Here, in the tent.” And He said, “I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son’’  (And Sarah was listening in the tent door which was behind him.) Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; and Sarah had passed the age of childbearing.  Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?” And the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?’ Is anything too hard for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.” But Sarah denied it, saying, “I did not laugh,” fore she was afraid’’

 



 [ /Quote ]

On-Site ::    Even if well meant, "correcting" someone else's post can potentially lead to misunderstandings or worse, and even other problems, so how about we don't do it. Plus, There's no reason if somebody missed the brackets or a had a small problem simply using the quote function to quote another post, was forgotten. The purpose? To show that minor mistake which was in the original; and was on the part of the person not making the quote. Here, you can easily see that the mistake was in the original-so there is no need to point it out.

 

 p.s. -- Hey Fonzie   must dash  so  back  to it  . . .


ProzacDeathWish
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Fonzie wrote: Prozac,Are

Fonzie wrote:

 

Prozac,

Are you the new wave of identity theft?

 

  Of course not.  Anyone with common sense could see that the avatar was mine and that I  re-edited your post with sarcasm as my goal.   I deliberately over exaggerated your usual talking points and style of wording until it became an obvious caricature.

 

 

ProzacDeathWish wrote:
I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate me speaking for you and putting your name on it. 

 

  Well I don't appreciate your posts to begin with but I support free speech,  be it mine or yours.   I reject such over-reaching nonsense as "hate speech" laws so even if you re-edited my words in an obvious attempt at sarcasm and ridicule I wouldn't hold it against you.  Do your best, I might even find it funny.   For example, I'm thoroughly right wing but I can laugh at Jon Stewart's ridicule of right-wing politics because he's also a very talented comedian who displays a remarkable wit.

 

 FWIW, I've been handled quite roughly by other atheists here who sought to make a critical point and most didn't bother to combine it with sarcasm.  I lived through it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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ANYTHING NEW?

butterbattle wrote:

Fonzie wrote:
 

Hi Miss B,

I just read your blog.  What sets off your short fuse?

Ooohhh, I didn't know what blog you were talking about and thought you had me confused with someone else at first. Then, I realized you were referring to the one I wrote here on this site. Wow, I wrote that back in 2009; that feels like so long ago to me.

Yes, I suppose I did have a tendency to lose my temper when arguing with people face to face. It was never a huge problem; at most, I raised my voice, fumed for a while afterwards, then calmed down. Still, it certainly wasn't one of my favorite personality traits. A number of things could have set me off, like any sort of disagreement where I became frustrated or I felt like the other person was too irrational or I felt like we couldn't communicate. I definitely feel like I've improved a lot since then though. In general, I'm probably more mature than I was, heh.  

I'm actually not a "Miss" either. I've just watched too much anime the last couple of years, so a lot of avatars are spontaneously turning into cute female characters, lol.

Edit: Yeah, if you look back far enough, I actually had at least two previous 'arguments' with you in this thread. This thread is ancient in terms of internet time, lol. 

 

 

Butter - 

I went back and scanned your comments from 72 to 125 (re: your "almost" story & the problems with 'my religion)  That was a while back.  Anything new with you?  

 

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:Butter - I

Fonzie wrote:

Butter - 

I went back and scanned your comments from 72 to 125 (re: your "almost" story & the problems with 'my religion)  That was a while back.  Anything new with you?   

Quite a bit actually. For one, I'm no longer in college. I'm in the U.S. Navy now, which has allowed me to travel fairly frequently in the last couple of years. Traveling is one of my favorite things in the world, so I'm definitely enjoying myself in that respect. 

My positions on religion and science are essentially the same as before, but I do have a different style now when I discuss these things, emphasizing active listening and trying to encourage people to open up rather than just asserting that they're irrational and god is dead or whatever. Obviously, I still think all religions are wrong; if anything, I feel that I understand these topics better than ever. But, being right and being logical doesn't necessarily translate to communicating effectively.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Fonzie wrote:Well, you are

Fonzie wrote:
Well, you are definitely on a different road, categorically not believing everything I believe and have faith in... and believing and having faith in things I don't - and I have no reason to think you're not being honest about it.

Good, because I'm not lying in any way. And I don't think you are lying either.
I can kind of see how a person can believe in a god, but only because I've met so many who believe it so vehemently that I put a huge effort into trying to understand the mindset. Too much really, as it has altered me slightly by doing so, but that's a different subject.
So while I can't truly comprehend your mindset, I certainly can't pretend it doesn't exist.

Fonzie wrote:
The questions you come up with "why did God do it this way?" are not questions to me at all.  God dwells in the heavens and does what He pleases just like you dwell in Canada or wherever and do what you please (since you're your own god) and though I don't understand the why of a lot of it (and don't have to) I'm totally confident He Knows What He's doing.  And for me to not accept any trial that comes to me would be to say God doesn't know what He's doing.  I've been through things I didn't understand at the time but they proved to be great in the long run.

Well now that really changes the discussion. This leads into morality. I might do as I please to an extent, but I limit myself. I don't seek to harm anyone who hasn't harmed me. Anyone I harm by accident I seek to make amends to. I'm certainly not responsible for anyone's death, and I have saved lives. In my view, I'm far superior to your god in all manner of ethics. Many things he does in the bible are unnecessary and cruel. Only a being expressing real hatred could actually do those things.
I might have been angry at people and imagined doing horrible things to them, but I never acted on it. And not because of the law. I'm a smart person with above average intelligence. I'm quite capable of committing a murder without getting nailed for it. As long as I actually took the time and effort necessary it would be hard but quite doable.
What stops me is an appreciation for the fact this universe doesn't exist only for me. It belongs to all life that inhabits it, and all life is equal in that regard.
Only something that seeks to harm or destroy me could possibly provoke such a hatred filled reaction as god displays. But god is god, noone can hurt or destroy god. So no such reaction can be justified.
It is true that some bad things inevitably become good things, but there's no law of the universe saying it has to be that way. Why is it that way? Why are so many bad things so very bad? Why did it take WWI and WWII to give us the tools to smash the atom and go into space? For thousands of years, man dreamed of travelling to the stars, never knowing the price that would be paid.
People die, everything dies, fine. I accept that just fine. But some deaths are so horrible as to be literally sickening. No loving god would force so many people to die so horribly. Not even if they were pure, irredeemable scum (and most aren't). I wouldn't do it and I'm not a particularly loving guy. But I know what love is, and you don't break the things you love or the people you love.
Now you might respond that it isn't god making them die that way, but you're wrong. If god made us, then he why didn't he make the limit of what someone can suffer before dying smaller? Why is it that someone can suffer for so long before death? It doesn't accomplish anything. Nothing but sadistic imperatives at least.

Fonzie wrote:
I do appreciate the straightforward way you said it all without the extraneous stuff - let the reader understand -  but at the same time I have no doubts frankly that you're totally wrong.  These idols you have will fall off the shelf (actually get knocked off).  The Bible would be a great read investment for you.  If you get through Numbers you'll be well on your way.

I appreciate the intent behind your arguments, but I know I'm right and it doesn't bother me that when I'm gone my 'idols' will be broken. The best pieces were preserved by teaching others things that will live on long after I'm gone. I've put a piece of me into thousands, if not millions of people. I am quite happy with that.
There are two books I quit reading in my life. The hobbit, which was boring as fuck and never went anywhere or did anything; and the bible, which I found disgusting and vile. Might have been different if I'd started reading it as if it were fiction, but that's not how you are supposed to read it.
I'd offer a counter suggestion for you to read, but no single book tells you everything. I've not read any atheist books and I'm not likely to, and I don't recommend books I haven't read. You really just have to read as many books as you can get your hands on. Don't limit yourself to one poorly written ancient text.

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Btw Fonzie, you had a broken

Btw Fonzie, you had a broken quote in your post, where you quoted Prozac's.. alterations. I fixed it for you, hope you don't mind. It was giving a weird impression that you were quoting him berating you for impersonating him... or something. Anyway, it's fixed now.

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(Poe)

1 Great was the hypocrisy of the Old Troll, 2 for It hath stolen an identify for Itself thence lied about it (and we beheld Its lies), 3 yet then It did stamp and shout with rage when Its identity was prozacked by another.  4Nor even now would It find the honesty to answer:  

 

And it was still quite easy...

 

Quote:
...while I can't truly comprehend your mindset, I certainly can't pretend it doesn't exist.

You can pretend god doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean he doesn't.  

 

Quote:
Many things he does in the bible are unnecessary and cruel. Only a being expressing real hatred could actually do those things.
As a lowly human, I cannot judge the reasons a perfect god does what he does.  What makes sense in heaven may not make sense in Canada.

 

Quote:
But god is god, noone can hurt or destroy god. So no such reaction can be justified.
But god became man and allowed himself to be hurt and destroyed to save you from eternal destruction.

 

Quote:
There are two books I quit reading in my life. The hobbit, which was boring as fuck and never went anywhere or did anything; and the bible, which I found disgusting and vile. Might have been different if I'd started reading it as if it were fiction, but that's not how you are supposed to read it.
If you read it as the perfect word of god, you would not find it digusting and vile, but instead assume god had good reasons for anything that seems disgusting and vile.

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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FIXED QUOTE

Vastet wrote:
Btw Fonzie, you had a broken quote in your post, where you quoted Prozac's.. alterations. I fixed it for you, hope you don't mind. It was giving a weird impression that you were quoting him berating you for impersonating him... or something. Anyway, it's fixed now.

 

 

 

I didn't know you could do that - ok, GOOD


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A LETHAL DOSE OF FAKE RELIGION

butterbattle wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Butter - 

I went back and scanned your comments from 72 to 125 (re: your "almost" story & the problems with 'my religion)  That was a while back.  Anything new with you?   

Quite a bit actually. For one, I'm no longer in college. I'm in the U.S. Navy now, which has allowed me to travel fairly frequently in the last couple of years. Traveling is one of my favorite things in the world, so I'm definitely enjoying myself in that respect. 

My positions on religion and science are essentially the same as before, but I do have a different style now when I discuss these things, emphasizing active listening and trying to encourage people to open up rather than just asserting that they're irrational and god is dead or whatever. Obviously, I still think all religions are wrong; if anything, I feel that I understand these topics better than ever. But, being right and being logical doesn't necessarily translate to communicating effectively.

 

 

 

Butter,

Thanks for your service in the US Navy.  (It has worked out that I have 3 retired Navy friends at this time and one more that died earlier this year at 85)

In a sense I agree that all "religions" are wrong.  If you took time to read the book of Habakkuk (3 chapters) you might see some questions you have and the answer to "spiritual survival" given - which is maybe the principle of the whole Bible.  The verse is quoted also in Romans, Galations and Hebrews (each with different emphasis).  

I'm sickened by "home brew religions" myself.  In fact growing up as a kid I was almost vaccinated against the real thing with a weak experience of so-called religion.   

 

 

 


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Vastet wrote:Btw Fonzie, you

Vastet wrote:
Btw Fonzie, you had a broken quote in your post, where you quoted Prozac's.. alterations.

                                  

 

                                                          I was trying my hand at parody ....oh well.


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zarathustra

zarathustra wrote:
(Poe)

Still too easy. I've never spoken with a theist who put so little effort into it. You aren't a poe, you're a troll. And I'm still not wasting my time on your one liners.

Fonzie wrote:
I didn't know you could do that - ok, GOOD

It isn't something I do often and it isn't something I like doing because the power to alter someone's posts can make a person into the ultimate jerk. I don't really believe in the saying 'absolute power corrupts absolutely', but why take a chance?
However, when the formating of a post is broken and changing the meaning of the response or breaking the topic in the process I feel obligated to fix it now that I can do so.

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Btw Fonzie, you had a broken quote in your post, where you quoted Prozac's.. alterations.

                                  

 

                                                          I was trying my hand at parody ....oh well.

I will admit, I chuckled.

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>Times and 'signs' ..'Seasons' and Wonders; figures n Symbols

0ff -site

  Death Before Dishonor . .

  



    Now,  You hadnt thought about that  . .

   On one occasion, while the Sun sat as spector,  casting off his coils and chains; yet he like the dreadnought true, like leashing the Cerberus, when dragged along by laden deprived longings anew (*snort*, cackling, hehehe)

 

 

 Times n signs; rhymes n reason; Seasons n Wonders; figures n Symbols

 
 

 


 Times and 'signs'; rhymes and reason; 'Seasons' and Wonders; figures and Symbols
 


 

Vastet wrote:
Unlimited, perfect knowledge equates to a 0% failure rate in prediction.

  It is not for you to know times or seasons

 

"Beloved Burden" Baby Wearing
 

  Baby's first kick one day,  serves as a sign of developing life

 Some things are not within our direct control,  Avengers  Assemble

 

    Acts 1:7 (NKJB)

   And thus was said to them, ''It is not for you to know times or seasons which officiant allowed, by His own authority'' (~double meaning).



 



 

   It's the  End of the World as we know it .. and I feel fine

   YouTube Video part of Book of the Revelation of Saint John the Divine quotation and reference ::
 

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bnM9rgRJyE {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bnM9rgRJyE}

 

     And it is written, for all to see, so that it is understood at what level we find the meanness (~double meaning)

  The Blessed Hope (turn to the pages to come)

  In the Year of Our Lord 1704, in one of the marginal note, he predicted the end on Pangs laden writhes in approx. the year 2060 AD. So, Newton came to this after an intensive study of the OT Book of Daniel, particularly ''Chapter 12 verse 7:

“I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times and half a time; and as soon as they finished shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.”

  It was the phrase “times, times and a half a time,” that caught Newton’s attention''.  Apparently, given the information that was available to him, basically he interpreted it to mean three and half years or 1,260 days (also referenced in Daniel 7:25, Revelation 11:3, 12:6 and 13:5). So he more or less interpreted days to mean years – ''1,260 years — which marked the countdown to the end of the world and return of Christ. Of course, Newton also required a start date for this countdown''. For that, Newton used the establishment of the Holy Roman Empire in 800 AD by Charlemagne. This signaled the merging of the Pope’s religious primacy with Charlemagne’s political supremacy. ''Consequently, the 2060 date was simply calculated by adding 1,260 years to 800 AD. End time prophecy was popular in the protestant movement, and has remained popular.

 

 

     Like the Title of the old Negro spiritual  -- I have a right to the tree of life (~double meaning)

  Book of the Revelation of Saint John the Divine  -- ''And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true .. Blessed are those who wash their robes in blood, so that they may have  the right to  the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into that city''



 


 


 


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I really don't get what

I really don't get what you're getting at.

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Intermission ** Let's go out to the lobby ** INTERMISSION ::

Τί οὖν ἐροῦμεν; ἐπιμενοῦμεν τῇ ἁμαρτίᾳ, ἵνα ἡ χάρις πλεονάσῃ ( What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may abound? )

  In Arts & Features,  Arts News

  The Mad feaver imaginations of I guess some not paying attention from both near and far . . .

 

  In Shakespeare's  Measure for Measure  centers around the fate of a certain Claudio (a.k.a. - Claudia in the adaptation), who is arrested by Lord Angelo, who has been sentenced for impregnating a woman with whom he is not yet legally bound, in the story the temporary leader of Vienna. Angelo is left in charge by the Duke, who pretends to leave town but instead dresses as a frilly friar to observe the goings-on in his absence. Angelo is strict, moralistic, and unwavering in his decision-making; he decides that there is too much freedom in Vienna and so much for all that where it  takes it upon himself to rid the city of brothels and unlawful sexual activity. Being fairly unfamilar with the bulk of the story sounds a bit like a type Parasurama, also known as the “axe-wielding Rama. If so or if that were the case the charges acts in that story, are as the  'in'-crowd of disney's Recess would say : '' Scandalous ! ''

  In the 2012 adaption of the play Measure for Measure which traditionally features an imprisoned Claudio, as opposed to Claudia, who has been sentenced for impregnating a woman with whom he is not yet legally bound. Changing Claudio’s gender teases an subtle dynamic out of Shakespeare’s text, opening Isabella’s reasons for denying Angelo into a potential condemnation of her sister’s sexual behavior.

 

 ==  ==


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2014 My name is not a four letter word or Oh that's right it is

  I am not standing for changing 3 plus years for anyone (not for anybody!!)!!

 

Re ::  2014 My name is not a four letter word or Oh that's right it is

 

 

    "And When evening came"

 

   Cross reference  similar passage regarding the Fig Tree found in Mark's Gospel :: When evening came, Jesus and his disciples went out of the city. .. Peter remembered and said to Jesus,

 

     Especially   the Gospel   According  to   Saint   Luke

 

   Luke 17:6 - The Lord replied, "If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to this *mulberry tree, "Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it would obey you''

 

     My very own margin note (so be kind) ::  Sycamine (sykáminos) is the black mulberry

 

      Fears seem to rule the day in everyone's heart, my greatest fear is we will somehow cave to the impending pressure and miss one another entirely. Fears seem to be hewed out of gnarled branches, fueling the cruel anguish that filled my brain; And As I laid me down on the black mulberry bush, a throbbing with piercing pain . .  I wouldn't change a minute of it nor do any other than embrace the pain, for that future love  and  the Promise.  I have it on good authority :: I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. Fore you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and pals. I say  so much  for the faith of some.

 

  It is obvious from other Greek authors such as Galen and Dioscorides by sycamine what is meant is the black mulberry. In Greek Symbolism The mulberry tree is featured in the works of Ovid and in Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" about the tale of Pyramus and Thisbe; they seem to be forced to whisper to one another through the cracks in the walls. I hope you yourself will soon show me a better way to communicate,  I honestly  wish you  knew  my heart  then you'd understand everything, I just know it-to be true! You'd be very very surprised at what you'd find (truly). Ooey gooey right  along side  that  "overcoming power  forever-more" (wink)  Every hour  I want to  love you  with all my heart (every single hour . . )

 


  Shine the light

 

 These lyrics  carry a very different weight to them  (Love is unstoppable  when it's all in a certain Someone's plan)

 

 

 

 

  Look out my heart the wind is blowing again

 It´s time to batten down the broken parts

 Look out my heart debris is flying around

 Confusion wants to shake your solid ground

 

 Storms may come along and winds may blow

 Raging tempest will come and go

 But I´ll hide in the shadow of Your wings

 

 So I´ll hide in the shadow of Your wings

 And listen while You sing

 I´ll hide in the shadow of Your wings

 And listen while You sing over me

 

 

  p.s. --  I think we all need  an Update,  it wouldnt do well for me to write :  '' me + Kaljit '' on this or any other site .. now would it ?!??   Hold on to the Hope . . .  Days are coming to a time to start up anew (I would hate to miss out) . . So, I will keep on and keep doing  what I am doing  but will not be making as much time for this anymore. Oh, the misspelling in the cell above or was it : feaver and not fever, as in  Special Advisor for  Strategic Planning

 

 

 

     Here's an idea, Everything is a extra level of imagery and imaginations gone abhorrent, I take it! Hmmm,  .. my my  this-satisfies NOBODY and DOES NOT put all potential doubts to rest ? Good!! ( Here's an idea,  Hmmm,  .. my my  this-satisfies NOBODY and DOES NOT put all potential doubts to rest ? Good!!

 

 


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OUT OF WARRANTY - STILL RADIOACTIVE AND TICKING

Vastet wrote:
I really don't get what you're getting at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vas,

 

I'm 70 today.  Today I'm thinking about Habakkuk - the prophet with a "question mark" for a brain, the "doubting Thomas of the OT" (you might see yourself in that).  He had an honest question about the way God was doing things (or not doing things) and brought it to God (this is a great idea and thing for you to respectfully do), waited in the "watchtower" and got his answer - A GREAT ANSWER and THE KEY to spiritual survival, how to make it in this world gone mad:  "behold, he whose soul is not upright in him shall fail but the just shall live by his faith."  This same principle and key is quoted and is the backdrop for Romans, Galatians and Hebrews (with different emphasis in each - if not the backdrop for the whole Bible).  

In Romans, the Holy Spirit through Paul says the gospel reveals the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God through faith for faith (a nuclear faith producer).  In Galatians, (it gets tricky) this key of "justification by faith" enables survival of the temptation and outside challenges of making God's Word into a "keeping of rules or laws" and to try to be justified by that rather than faith (like Abraham exemplified).  In Hebrews the emphasis is on the exciting life of faith that God creates and enables - instead walking by faith and (real life) not shrinking back - and the definition of faith: which has substance to those who believe and evidence to those who believe  (not speculation, a leap in the dark, or mystical, or a secret club, password or anything).  

As the Holy Spirit shows through Paul in Romans...the problem with people not believing the gospel is not lack of evidence - but sin (unbelief) and the slippery self-deceiving slope sin puts you on.  The glory of God seen in the things created is evident.  But man wants to live without God, be "wise in his own eyes" and believe in his and other's "speculation" rather than "revelation".  The results of the two choices become additional evidence BTW.  

BUT... on the slippery slope, mankind drowning in sin, going down for the 3rd time - the gospel offers RESCUE by the Righteousness of God given as a Gift, the Power to be freed from sin through the Gift of The Lamb of God Who took our sins upon Himself and cancelled our debt by becoming a curse for us.  Cursed is everyone hung on a tree - He carried our sins and the sins of all who believe in Him to the cross and enables us to be "born anew" into Him, into His victory and Indestructable Life.  Plus, He, God, and the Holy Spirit come and make Their home with us.  Jesus Christ washes our feet as we confess our sins and maintains our moral purity so we can have fellowship with Him and other believers all the way.  

We deal with things we don't know all about all the time - (laser measuring devices, GPS, digestion, calculators, cell phones) yet some people act like they need to know all about Jesus before they believe in Him.  

Life in Christ is great!  It's "WORKING FOR ME".  Many times I have thought it couldn't get any better...but it does!  I hope you find this Treasure and come to know Christ and the joy of life that is LIFE INDEED.  Eternal life starts here and now not pie in the sky and the by and by.  It's started for me and others I know. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:I'm 70

Fonzie wrote:
I'm 70 today.

Happy birthday!

Fonzie wrote:
Today I'm thinking about Habakkuk

I'm not familiar with this character.

Fonzie wrote:
the prophet with a "question mark" for a brain, the "doubting Thomas of the OT" (you might see yourself in that).  He had an honest question about the way God was doing things (or not doing things) and brought it to God (this is a great idea and thing for you to respectfully do), waited in the "watchtower" and got his answer

Oh wait, this is the guy who spent years in a tower right? I never read the story, so all I know about it is based on discussions other people have had.
Unfortunately the story is not capable of doing anything for me. If I lock myself up in a tower for years, I'll be dead before 2 weeks go by. It isn't practical. Even if I believed in a god, there's no reason I should have to go to such lengths to get an answer from him. Seeing as how I don't believe, there's absolutely no reason. Let him show himself to me first, so that I can have a belief in him and do crazy things out of faith.

Fonzie wrote:
~snip~

Everything you said in the remainder of your post requires pre-existing belief in god, which I don't have. I cannot believe in things that don't obviously exist, and god doesn't obviously exist.

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Why not share then or at least follow up then ??

 

 

 

Mr. OP (to the OP) --  Re :: Why not share then or at least follow up then ??

 

 

 

Fonzie wrote:
Today I'm thinking about Habakkuk. . with a "question mark" for a brain
I'm not familiar with this character.

 

   Curious ?  How so ?!??  Interesting.  So, Do you think the book should be divided into three distinctly separate parts,  as if the same man hadn't penned each part, then ? Again,  How so ?

 “The burden which Habakkuk the prophet did see” (Habakkuk 1:1)

  Off the top of my head, By what is penned, You're hardly morally justified to chacterize this man in this way. By profession and trade the Old Testament prophet was always called upon to 'do crazy things out of faith'. An immediate example is he prophecied against his own people, telling them things nobody wanted to hear. With memorable wording like ''Yet in it there is no breath at all '' . . '' His soul is not right within him'' speaking of the sinner and the proud. Though not proud himself he carried a heavy weight within him. Truly a thankless job . . From a literary standpoint, it's instantly recognizable some very familiar wider ANE "Conflict" 'themes'. If you look up the word arrow, there are arrow(s) of a different sort. Like you find in Deut 32:23f I, the LORD, send against them the evil or deadly arrows of famine and pestilence.  Fulfilling his role, as with each of them, they often found themselves vilified and not very often loved by any; yet like the continent of resisting of the surging ocean's sway,  foretelling of how iniquity and the very apparent divine displeasure of God would lead. 
 

 --- ---

    Where their rulers do not unite a fractured network nor taking any of it too seriously, even when warnings the bearing the sword for no reason. 
 



  Non-site Related  -- Heading Under  ''Other'' --

 In the book entitled "Look at the Moon!", it references something from the New Testament, in the Gospel of Saint Matthew 13:41b-42 ". . and they shall gather out of His kingdom all that offend and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth''

 



Off-site ::

    Caring is about wanting your best and not seeking what is best for me, K!    FYI~ish   --  It's all been done before . .

 

 



 

 

   Fonzie, directly to you, a song from me to you  . .   Something of a  belated birthday song, if you will  ::
 

 

  “Touch Of The Master’s Hand”

Quote:

Well it was battered and scared,
And the auctioneer felt it was hardly worth his while,
To waste much time on the old violin but he held it up with a smile,
Well it sure ain’t much but its all we got left I guess we aught to sell it to,
Oh, now who’ll start the bid on this old violin?
Just one more and we’ll be through.

And then he cried one give me one dollar,
Who’ll make it two only two dollars who’ll make it three,
Three dollars twice now that’s a good price,
Now who’s gonna bid for me?
Raise up your hand now don’t wait any longer the auctions about to end,
Who’s got four Just one dollar more to bid on this old violin?

Well the air was hot and the people stood around as the sun was setting low,
From the back of the crowd a gray haired man,
Came forward and picked up the bow,
He wiped the dust from the old violin then he tightened up the strings,
Then he played out a melody pure and sweet, sweeter than the Angels sing,
And then the music stopped and the auctioneer,
With a voice that was quiet and low he said now what am I bid,
For this old violin and he held it up with a bow.

And then he cried out one give me one thousand,
Who’ll make it two only two thousand who’ll make it three,
Three thousand twice you know that’s a good price,
Common who’s gonna to bid for me?
And the people cried out what made the change we don’t understand,
Then the auctioneer stopped and he said with a smile,
It was the touch of the Master’s hand.

You know there's many a man with his life out of tune,
Battered and scared with sin and he’s auctioned cheap,
To a thankless world much like that old violin,
Oh, but then the Master comes,
And that old foolish crowd they never understand,
The worth of a soul and the change that is rought,
Just by one touch of the Masters hand.

And then he cried out one give me one thousand,
Who’ll make it two only two thousand who’ll make it three,
Three thousand twice you know that’s a good price,
Common who’s gonna bid for me?
And the people cried out what made the change we don’t understand,
Then the auctioneer stopped and he said with a smile,
It was the touch, that’s all it was; it was the touch of the Master’s hand,
It was the touch of the Master’s hand; oh, it was the touch of the Master’s hand.

 p.s. --  Basically, much better than that Happy happy Birthday song.  Enjoy it  (Smiling)




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(Poe)

1 In Its 70th year, the Troll of the LORD returned from the wilderness.

2 And It went again among the heathen, seeking their attentions.

3 And It chastened the heathen for demanding evidence, and not believing on faith alone.

4 And It ducked Its burden of proof by saying evidence only comes to those who already believe

5 (Though even in Its own book of myths, 

doubting Thomas refused to believe

6 Unless given actual evidence,

and was provided with such evidence.)

7 And the heathen were kind and fed the Troll,

8 Though they knew It spake lies and drivel,

9 And though they knew it was still quite easy...

 

Quote:
I'm not familiar with this character.

You cannot be familiar with god unless you are familiar with his prophets and his word.

 

Quote:
Unfortunately the story is not capable of doing anything for me. If I lock myself up in a tower for years, I'll be dead before 2 weeks go by. It isn't practical.
If you lock jesus out of your heart, you risk being locked in hell for eternity.  

 

Quote:
Even if I believed in a god, there's no reason I should have to go to such lengths to get an answer from him.
god (the shepherd) will go to any length to find a lost sheep.  But you must be willing to meet him part way; for god will not force you into his presence.

 

Quote:
Seeing as how I don't believe, there's absolutely no reason. Let him show himself to me first, so that I can have a belief in him and do crazy things out of faith.
god shows himself to those who have faith in him.

 

Quote:
Everything you said in the remainder of your post requires pre-existing belief in god, which I don't have. I cannot believe in things that don't obviously exist, and god doesn't obviously exist.

god obviously exists.  But his existence will only become obvious once you abandon your pre-existing belief in his nonexistence.

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


Fonzie
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BOB DYLAN - VIOLINS - CRYPTOLOGY - HAIR - OP ANSWERS

danatemporary wrote:

 

 

 

 

 



 

 

   Fonzie, directly to you, a song from me to you  . .   Something of a  belated birthday song, if you will  ::
 

 

  “Touch Of The Master’s Hand”

Quote:

Well it was battered and scared,
And the auctioneer felt it was hardly worth his while,
To waste much time on the old violin but he held it up with a smile,
Well it sure ain’t much but its all we got left I guess we aught to sell it to,
Oh, now who’ll start the bid on this old violin?
Just one more and we’ll be through.

And then he cried one give me one dollar,
Who’ll make it two only two dollars who’ll make it three,
Three dollars twice now that’s a good price,
Now who’s gonna bid for me?
Raise up your hand now don’t wait any longer the auctions about to end,
Who’s got four Just one dollar more to bid on this old violin?

Well the air was hot and the people stood around as the sun was setting low,
From the back of the crowd a gray haired man,
Came forward and picked up the bow,
He wiped the dust from the old violin then he tightened up the strings,
Then he played out a melody pure and sweet, sweeter than the Angels sing,
And then the music stopped and the auctioneer,
With a voice that was quiet and low he said now what am I bid,
For this old violin and he held it up with a bow.

And then he cried out one give me one thousand,
Who’ll make it two only two thousand who’ll make it three,
Three thousand twice you know that’s a good price,
Common who’s gonna to bid for me?
And the people cried out what made the change we don’t understand,
Then the auctioneer stopped and he said with a smile,
It was the touch of the Master’s hand.

You know there's many a man with his life out of tune,
Battered and scared with sin and he’s auctioned cheap,
To a thankless world much like that old violin,
Oh, but then the Master comes,
And that old foolish crowd they never understand,
The worth of a soul and the change that is rought,
Just by one touch of the Masters hand.

And then he cried out one give me one thousand,
Who’ll make it two only two thousand who’ll make it three,
Three thousand twice you know that’s a good price,
Common who’s gonna bid for me?
And the people cried out what made the change we don’t understand,
Then the auctioneer stopped and he said with a smile,
It was the touch, that’s all it was; it was the touch of the Master’s hand,
It was the touch of the Master’s hand; oh, it was the touch of the Master’s hand.

 p.s. --  Basically, much better than that Happy happy Birthday song.  Enjoy it  (Smiling)



 

DT,

Thanks for the birthday lyric.  I've got a old violin custom made for my late mother-in-law but I decrease the value when I  play it.

As to your question "to the OP...why not respond"? - most of your posts are beyond my understanding to encode.  For starters I don't know what your "divisions" mean or further almost all of your abreviations using initials.   So your trumpet is not putting forth a clear signal to me.  I'm sure you know what you mean.  And you sure know how to run the computer through its paces.   

I would have to say BTW I liked your hair better before - but, that's just me.

I'm a really happy guy and want to be "played by THE MASTER" for all it's worth and possible.  It's great to live in the Presence of God and entertain the Divine Guest - all made possible by the substitutionary death of Jesus, The Lamb of God.  

The description of everyday life now is a full armor fight every moment to the core and to the death - taking every thought captive and duck walking it to the Headquarters of the Word of God for authentication.  It's a closed border policy, guarded and enforced by sword, alert and lighted by The Spirit.  The battle is against principalities and unseen powers - not flesh and blood.  I'll take alertness over strength any day - catch hell before it develops.  It's work security, and I don't envision anything different until I sleep in Christ.  

I also hope things are going well with you Danatemporary in every way.  

I think at least one thing we share (?) is an enjoyment of Bob Dylan.  My favorite performance of his at this time is "Blind Willie McTell" at the CCMA.  To me that's the best i've seen of his.  My second favorite is when he wins the Oscar and performs "Things have Changed" from Australia by satelite.  Two more that I like are "Don't Fall Apart on me Tonight" and "License to Kill"  -  recorded with Mark Knoplier, etc. (I think they were test tracks or something)  I'm sure you can find them.     

 

 

 

 

 


Brian37
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Fonzie wrote:Vastet wrote:I

Fonzie wrote:

Vastet wrote:
I really don't get what you're getting at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vas,

 

I'm 70 today.  Today I'm thinking about Habakkuk - the prophet with a "question mark" for a brain, the "doubting Thomas of the OT" (you might see yourself in that).  He had an honest question about the way God was doing things (or not doing things) and brought it to God (this is a great idea and thing for you to respectfully do), waited in the "watchtower" and got his answer - A GREAT ANSWER and THE KEY to spiritual survival, how to make it in this world gone mad:  "behold, he whose soul is not upright in him shall fail but the just shall live by his faith."  This same principle and key is quoted and is the backdrop for Romans, Galatians and Hebrews (with different emphasis in each - if not the backdrop for the whole Bible).  

In Romans, the Holy Spirit through Paul says the gospel reveals the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God through faith for faith (a nuclear faith producer).  In Galatians, (it gets tricky) this key of "justification by faith" enables survival of the temptation and outside challenges of making God's Word into a "keeping of rules or laws" and to try to be justified by that rather than faith (like Abraham exemplified).  In Hebrews the emphasis is on the exciting life of faith that God creates and enables - instead walking by faith and (real life) not shrinking back - and the definition of faith: which has substance to those who believe and evidence to those who believe  (not speculation, a leap in the dark, or mystical, or a secret club, password or anything).  

As the Holy Spirit shows through Paul in Romans...the problem with people not believing the gospel is not lack of evidence - but sin (unbelief) and the slippery self-deceiving slope sin puts you on.  The glory of God seen in the things created is evident.  But man wants to live without God, be "wise in his own eyes" and believe in his and other's "speculation" rather than "revelation".  The results of the two choices become additional evidence BTW.  

BUT... on the slippery slope, mankind drowning in sin, going down for the 3rd time - the gospel offers RESCUE by the Righteousness of God given as a Gift, the Power to be freed from sin through the Gift of The Lamb of God Who took our sins upon Himself and cancelled our debt by becoming a curse for us.  Cursed is everyone hung on a tree - He carried our sins and the sins of all who believe in Him to the cross and enables us to be "born anew" into Him, into His victory and Indestructable Life.  Plus, He, God, and the Holy Spirit come and make Their home with us.  Jesus Christ washes our feet as we confess our sins and maintains our moral purity so we can have fellowship with Him and other believers all the way.  

We deal with things we don't know all about all the time - (laser measuring devices, GPS, digestion, calculators, cell phones) yet some people act like they need to know all about Jesus before they believe in Him.  

Life in Christ is great!  It's "WORKING FOR ME".  Many times I have thought it couldn't get any better...but it does!  I hope you find this Treasure and come to know Christ and the joy of life that is LIFE INDEED.  Eternal life starts here and now not pie in the sky and the by and by.  It's started for me and others I know. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How many pages and how many years has this thread been going?

Yes we get it, "Christ works for me". So? 

 

The polytheistic gods of the Egyptians worked for them for 3,000 years. Allah works for Muslims. Yahweh works for Jews. Vishnu works for Hindus. Buddha works for Buddhists.

 

Yet none of those religions were arround 200,000 years ago in the early evolution of our species. And yet we still managed to survive and reproduce.

 

We are not concerned with what you like or think works anymore than you blindly buy the claims or books of other religions you rightfully reject.

 

Everyone here including me, will gladly say "you are right" WHEN you privide evidence and not simply repeat your personal predilections. 

 

"It feels right" is not an argument. "It has a history of tradition" is not an argument. All religions play that game and it is meaningless. Get back to us when you can prove it in a lab and get your findings peer reviewed and get it to the patent office. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog