It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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So Marty,
You evidently envision something that can be accomplished within itself on this earth with (among other things) government (and no I'm not involved in politics) and education and your theory whatever that is. If this premise is true - what do you expect to accomplish that has lasting value, nothing considered beyond death, no answer to why we are here, and no hope beyond 3D?
The Word of God says it's "vanity of vanities" "under the sun" where we are right now - until we find God. You have evidently found something the Holy Spirit overlooked "under the sun". What is it?
If helping others, how are you going to truly help do or think what? If hope, what is your hope where is your hope and what is your object of hope? Is it just a "dying hope" (within 0-116 years for sure as seen on tombstones)? If you have no real hope are you just inviting others into your hopeless situation? Is it lonely and overwhelming trying to understand yourself and all the world around you and beyond and everything - in a lying atmosphere... with a time limit?
And what do you really KNOW about your "theory" or even the "snakes" you have fun discussing? Have you ever had something make perfect sense to you then later see it totally opposite? Wouldn't it be disheartening to have the pillars of life moving beneath you - no solid footing - and not even know there are pillars of life or what they are?
What is your building plan and program and what are your building materials when the demolition is over and the dust is contained, the permit issued, the contract negotiated, approved and work is ready to start? Don't just throw up a distraction - I really want to see what you've got. I'm not asking what I've not done myself - I've laid my answer out to all these questions.
Why does there need to be a "beyond 3D?" The only reason humans contemplate it all is due to extra logarithmic computations going on the brain that gives us a little more of what we call "consciousness " than our anthropoid cousins. We still haven't figured out exactly how this happened or fully defined consciousness, but there are number of theories, much of which had to do with environmental change that led to a dietary change for early hominids. Some paleontologists have theorized that when these hominids began cooking their food (could've been an accidental discovery) and in particular eating fish, this led to the brain development that led to consciousness. What is "lasting" value? each person who lives contributes his or her own values, some of which last after death. Why is this important other than to stroke your own ego?
"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."
Only if one is dissatisfied with life. Values are subjective.
No one I know of lives life on the level of an ox,unless they're in 3rd world countries perhaps. Here again, values are subjective and you're basing your worldview on values and not objective reality, which we learn about from physical evidence. Not imagining a value and wishing it to be so.
"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."
It was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's output...
I value jesus, and could never be dissatisfied with the eternal life he offers.
jesus calls you to live the life of a sheep, so you can graze forever in 1st world pastures.
There's no need to wait for book when you already have god's Book, which has been hot off the press for 2,000 years.
There's no sale pitch, because jesus isn't selling anything. He offers salvation free of charge.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Marty,
I know we are essentially living in two different worlds as far as point of view and thinking. However I don't think you have defended your world view well. You essentially say it simply "is" and goes nowhere, means nothing, and the fact that you are unconcerned is to be viewed as a wonderful satisfaction and a noble nothingness going nowhere soon to be in book form - as if turning up the volume real loud makes a bad song better. It comes off as worship at the altar of apathy. It seems hot or cold would be preferable to this bubble of apathy - too thin to be abraded with inquiry about its construction and origin.
Let's say your embodiment of life in 3D all represents the unseen eternal world - another D. You accept standards in 3D - gravity, balance, fuel, air mixture, taste, color - but don't accept standards in another D. You don't even think there is another D? You don't think man has a spirit and that there are standards for that spirit? Do you think pride is a good thing for instance, a real state, a state of solid evidence? Or is humility good - down to earth - careful, that would be a standard. Is a liar breaking a standard? Is it right/wrong to shed innocent blood? Is it wrong to lie about someone in order to destroy their name and falsely turn the ignorant against them - in order to take something that is theirs...or is there no standard for right and wrong? Is it in your book?
The point about the ox is not living on the level of one but that the ox puts man to shame. The ox knows its master. The man doesn't and talks about logarithms which is unrelated to the question of his unbelief and understanding. The imagination is yours not the ox's.
I have some ideas for your book title (feel free to use any of them) : MARTY'S EVIDENCE FOR NOTHINGNESS MARTY'S GUIDE TO NOWHERE HOW TO THINK WITHOUT THINKING, LOVE IT - THEN LEAVE IT HOW TO BELIEVE YOU DON'T HAVE FAITH - BECAUSE BELIEVE ME AND OTHER UNBELIEVERS - YOU DON'T HARD EVIDENCE FOR HARDLY ANYTHING & NO EXPLANATIONS FOR EVERYTHING LET'S GO TOGETHER AND GO NOWHERE - I'LL SHOW YOU THE WAY IN MY BOOK LET'S NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING AND BE FRIENDS - BUT REMEMBER FRIENDSHIP MEANS NOTHING AND UNLESS YOU'RE HARD EVIDENCE I DON'T BELIEVE YOU I'M GOD AND I LIVE IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER - THE VAN DOESN'T RUN BUT THE RIVER DOES
BY MARTY H
** REPETITIOUS METAPHOR **
Zarathustra,
This statement seems funny coming from you - when your posts are nothing BUT metaphor (mocking sans meaning). Or, was there a post where you actually SAID something rather than REPETITIOUS METAPHOR? I missed it.
Why don't you address the issues rather than rhyming folly? Instead you level a charge at me. Necessarily guessing then, I think what incites you about me is related to something else you're not facing. Thus, it irritates the POE out of you.
There has been no atheist plan or orientation presented in the "now" that connects with where we came from and where we are going. There's no meaning in this atheist nothingness - just the "assumed" demolition of unconsidered spiritual reality (which remains untouched BTW).
If this is to come out in book form maybe you have a better title suggestion for a book that goes nowhere, says nothing and connects to nothing. If it is to be a reflection of content maybe this will be the first book with no name and no number, no contents, no conclusion.
Hopefully the price will reflect the value and the book comes in paper-wad form.
Theists just can't stop pointing out the obvious. So what if atheism doesn't have a "plan or orientation presented in the "now" that connects with where we came from and where we are going.". That's NOT THE POINT OF ATHEISM.
The POINT is rejecting YOUR plan as irrational, illogical, and ridiculous. That's it.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Vastet,
I am seeing that is the point. It's like vandals in the Taj Mahal tearing it up and congratulating each other for the accomplishment. Have you considered that the POINT OF ATHEISM is not a point at all - but a disaster? What could be more, "irrational, illogical, and ridiculous" that that?
T0 :: Bad-badge, Good so you're done coming here then ?
Re :: Do not disturb so serene the sleeping gods
Addressed to others . . .
The following reason was given for the ancient Deluge event . . .
"Mankind’s depravity had reached a level that evil entirely permeated every part of his being. Much as the spartans institutionalized sin."
This quote was give to justify the mythic Deluge, found in the pages of the Old Testament of the global flood. First, I can appreciate it as a cautionary tale but not as anything other than a myth, with a possible benefit as a 'teaching' ONLY. Given the lack of evidence for it. An event of such magnitude, there should be a consilience (also convergence of evidence or concordance of evidence) refers to the principle that evidence from independent, unrelated sources can "converge" to strong conclusions of/for such an event. When all we find is evidence for it being based on other more ancient 'regional' myths. But, The Ancient Near East would be such a uninteresting bore, why spend the time ? Should mention this verse, though not directly related. Good thing I never found it to be a bore myself ..
Nahum 1 (NJKV) - "The Lord will take vengeance on His adversaries, And the Lord reserves wrath for His enemies. The Lord is slow to anger and great in power, And will not at all acquit the wicked. The Lord has His way In the whirlwind and in the storm, And the clouds are the dust of His feet. He rebukes the sea and makes it dry,"
To :: Cap
Cap I give you to the count of three to comment on the friendlier posts IN THIS 'other' THREAD.. I am in no mood to put up with the business from you or ANY other !!
¬ D a n a
DT,
...Thin as the glaze covering an earthen vessel...in rides the "sock puppet" " theme of Anonymouse" viz.; don't discuss atheism which is devoid of meaning. And...put a seemingly noble face on it to be rid of said challenge to it. To "restrain her is to restrain the wind" - or "hold oil in his right hand". Thankfully... not a personal assignment of mine.
"Tri-tones" (Special Information Tones)
We're Sorry the number you have reached has been disconnected or is no longer in service. Please hang-up and try your call again. Hang-up and contact a Moderator for assistance.
P.S. -- Typically a message is played or the number is no longer in service!!
"Tri-tones" YouTube link ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMQUVal9HiE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMQUVal9HiE
Tass,
So you have investigated this and found there is no evidence for Jesus or God, and you quote from Paul (so I assume you believe he exists and is worthy of an evidence based reference). Paul also said, "Blessed be the God and Father of our LORD Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, Who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort we ourselves are comforted by God."
Paul refers here to just one experience believers have in common - itself far more than "nothing else" as you say.
Faith is something we all have BTW - in something. I think it has been really hard for atheists to face the fact and admit faith - in something other than God, while fooling themselves.
Nobody has been able to describe an atheist day of strictly "evidence based" life with decisions at every turn. Here are your pretenders: those who claim totally evidence based living.
Don't refuse to believe something simply because it surprises you.
** REPETITIOUS REGURGITATIONS **
Zara,
You have a cordial invitation on your home page to "come on in" and let us 'show you a better way'; however, when the whirlwind of mocking settles down and the subject turns to the question of "atheist substance", "atheist motives", "atheist help", "atheist world view", "atheist understanding", "atheist why and where and where to", "the atheist evidence example day",....well, it's a "don't have DARN YOU" and it's any rhetorical, regurgitational POE - port in a storm, or it's "we did list all that long, long ago (during evolution) but you missed it", OR THE LATEST; wait until it comes out in book form! And the fact that the atheist is not concerned about it all is given as PROOF there is no meaning to life... and a sigh of relief is granted along with a "do not disturb" sign.
You, of ALL participants to talk about rhetoric, repetition, regurgitation...is definitely an entertaining irony. I have pressed you to say something, ANYTHING, other than just try to imagine what I'm thinking and mock it (which has been fine and dandy BTW)....but you haven't borne a thought yet. Or... do you have evidence to the contrary (some of this evidence you guys claim to live and die by)?
The sad plight of the atheist is this wilderness of limbo with no direction, instead just a marauding demolition party.
But... Light has dawned, and you all are invited to check IT out: There is a WAY out, a LIVING WAY designed before the creation of the world and now revealed in the Son of God, the Son of man, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world through His Blood, the Savior of all those who believe in Him. "He who through faith is righteous shall live." God gives us the garment of righteousness (His, not ours) - and puts a totally new living man (new heart, everything new) in the new garment. He has brought us from death to life, dead to sin (though we do fall) and alive to God. We have been born anew to a LIVING hope in Christ. In Him we live and move and have our being.
Book Of Rom. --
But hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly, expectantly, wait for it with perseverance.
Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4 Ch. 9 35b -- "Alas, I wanted material name, fame and prosperity. My case is just like that of the poor man who, when he satisfied a great emperor who wanted to give him anything he might ask, out of ignorance asked only a few broken grains of husked rice."
(No Subject)
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F i n
"The POINT is rejecting YOUR plan as irrational, illogical, and ridiculous. That's it" .........(Vastet)
Vast,
It may be the point of atheism, but it's not the point of life...
Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come, and the years draw nigh, when you will say, "I have no pleasure in them": before the sun and the light and the moon and the stars are darkened and the clouds return after the rain; in the day when the keepers of the house tremble and the strong men are bent, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look through the windows are dimmed, and the doors on the street are shut; when the sound of the grinding is low, and one rises up at the voice of a bird, and all the daughters of song are brought low; they are afraid also of what is high, and terrors are in the way; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags itself along and desire fails; because man goes to his eternal home, and the mourners go about the streets; before the silver cord is snapped, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern, and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God Who gave it. Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher; all is vanity.
The fact is: God DOES have a plan and invites you to share in it. Consider while it's day - night comes...
There is an old Troll named Meph/Fonz,
Whose blathering goes on and ons.
To keep his thread live,
The same posts he'll revive,
Until somebody fin'lly responds.
There are no theists on operating tables.
DP (Double Post)
An atheist named Zara (Poe Para)
wurk heurd et no cara
she obvious tuuk nara
thhe serious no awara
EE heart hardee-har-heara
en obvious eno registe-era
dee hole ee bdigg deeperera
ann sense notta makneerra
asss clock-tic-ticeventuerra
unrekkogniz opportndee-ey-erra
all bipartizan depart-tuimerra
no plaanna makdestandierra
no look tue eesmartadorderra
> The Creative corner ?
:
:
Ironic choice of analogies given that it was Christian soldiers who defaced and tore stones out of the Taj Mahal in 1857. Damage that was completely ignored for over 40 years until Lord George Curzon was appoint viceroy. He was not a particularly devout man and went to church only for official functions. He did however, have a passion for history and genuine appreciation of other cultures.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
BE,
There is a great principle: "Pay attention to what you hear: with the measure you use, it will be measured to you and still more will be added to you. For to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away."
You have proved the principle: if there's something you don't want you can find a way out and deny yourself the point. The other side of the principle is available to you as well: bring some faith and openness and more will be measured to you.
I don't think you understand what the word "prove" means. When you make a claim that is either non-falsifiable or baseless, it cannot be proven.
It was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's output:
If you understand christ, that is all the proof you need. christ cannot be falsified, because he is the Eternal Truth.
There are no theists on operating tables.
I was reading some side-bar comments about Noah's Ark, which are usually better than the briefer articles written about the subject,. I got a laugh out of a term being slung at the fellow YEC types, from some of the dyed-in-the-wool YEC Creationists. They were using the word "Atheist" as a pejorative lobbed at fellow YEC Creationists!
Mr. Fonzerelli shouldnt be casting/lobbing stones; while sitting in a glass house.
Personal reminder (seeing you need reminding) ::
I am very open to facts, for example, see the post above where I pointed out a fact of which you were ignorant (otherwise you would have chosen a different analogy). Now if you have any facts supporting all of the baseless assertions you have made over the last 70 pages I will gladly consider them with a very open mind. Given the large amount of raw data we have, I think I am safe using my inductive logic to bet that you don't have any facts at all.
I have to admit, when it comes to baseless assertions that have no relation to reality and cannot be supported by evidence, I am rather closed minded.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
-t w-s st-ll qu-te e-sy...
The data may be raw, but the Fruit of Eternal Life is ripe. Which will you choose?
god is the base of all reality, so if you're close-minded to him, all your assertions are baseless.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Be,
Who tore up the Taj is irrelevant to illustrating destroying something of beauty and thinking that's an accomplishment - but aside from that (if you're open to it) how can you know you have the facts on that? You weren't there - you believed an account of it or more than one and yet the fact is there are examples of history being re-written. How do you know that the account you read is in fact accurate or for that matter these were really Christians?
You go on then to assume that indeed this being the case I would have chosen a different analogy, going on thus to speculate with your faith in what I would or wouldn't do - (if you're open to fact) how can you call that a fact? You don't know that. How can you prove it, how can you say that is operating on facts only?
You go on then to make the bold assertion that I don't have "any facts at all". That looks a lot more like a "leap of faith" on your part than a life connecting the dots on facts. Actually if you consider it (with an open mind) I don't think it's possible to only operate on facts. You are forced to apply faith in what you hear, read, experience, conclude, and your perception of it. And you are forced to speculate on those. But give me a list of facts you are totally positive of and operate on and how they work for you and I'll consider them.
I do have faith in the Bible accounts and the Bible Author just like you have faith in these things you read.
I admit I have faith in Jesus and faith in Jesus works in every day life - every day. I look at His example, His Words, His actions - and I have more faith He knows what He's doing and has the answers to life. I believe I have fellowship with Him living in me. I prove the things He says by trying them and the resulting success confirms they are true.
What He did in His Life and His death show that He will do what He says, promises, no matter what happens. That works for me no matter who tore up the Taj.
I wasn't talking about the relevancy of your point at all. I thought your point wasn't intelligent enough to bother addressing. I was just laughing at the irony of your choice of metaphors.
Because we have a significant amount of physical evidence we can look at that supports the conclusion. We have the diaries and letters of the people who did it, they didn't exactly hide it. We also have actual pieces of the Taj Mahal that made it back to England. Furthermore, we have the Taj Mahal itself where we can see what parts were replaced with newer materials. I suppose it is possible that the whole thing is a ridiculously huge hoax, although I'm at a complete loss as to why anyone would go through the effort and expense to do such a hoax. If there were any evidence supporting that theory I would be open to examining it. As of now, all the evidence points towards soldiers from a country that was mostly Christian operating under a leader who was openly devout were the ones who did it, and bragged about it.
I didn't call that a fact. It was speculation because I assumed you were not a complete idiot. And you are right, given the huge amount of evidence to the contrary, I should not have assumed that. That really is one of my irrational beliefs, I often give people on the internet credit for being smarter than they are. Since you have pointed it out, I will admit that I am wrong.
Hardly a bold assertion. As I pointed out, we have 70 pages of evidence which is enough to determine inductively that you probably don't have any facts. The assertion is about as bold as predicting the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. However, like all of my beliefs, it is open to be challenged by a single new discovery. So go ahead, if you have a single fact that provides evidence for your claims, show it.
There is a huge difference speculating based on the evidence you have at hand and making stuff up that is not supported by any evidence whatsoever.
Lol. Yeah, I have to admit my assumption that you would be intelligent enough to choose a different analogy was really an irrational assumption. Thanks for pointing it out.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
> (Morrison's song) : I-hear those gentle voices calling, "Old Black Joe"
For the record, I'm not imply Mr. Fonzie is unintelligent. I have a particular standard to uphold; one that avoids pointless personal attacks. So, Don't read into this, at any point, am I suggesting he is an "idiot," "dumb" or even "ignorant". That said, His stupidity lies in an unwillingness to be taken seriously by others; and his noticeable MARTYRDOM COMPLEX. Where I was insulting has to do w/ his proven plain azz laziness (as I have said before) !
F i n
BE,
Faith in Jesus works for me; and in those 70 pages you mentioned I challenge you to give an example of anything contrary to that fact of faith. Plus, in those 70 pages I have honestly described HOW faith in Jesus and the Word of God works in daily life, how faith in these realities break through doubts, questionings, anxiety, insecurity, uncertainty - through faith in the REAL LORD GOD AND CREATOR and fellowship with Him moment by moment and by KNOWING HIM. He is living and He is real. He is alive and all knowing and lives in me. I have been "born anew" into Him. All things have been made new. As far as the ignorance you mentioned; I think we are all ignorant in comparison to what there is to know but I know this: that GOD IS and that JESUS IS LORD, and died for our sins and rose from the dead.
You claim to live a life of facts, to live and breath facts, research and find facts, stand on facts, rest on facts, just the facts and only the facts.
Yet, you (or any other atheist for that matter) cannot clearly describe nor illustrate the personal "factual day" experience nor even give examples of said sure working facts - things you are absolutely positive of that work for you sun up to sun down and beyond. You conveniently ignored the call for that fact list in this post I noticed (and nervously resorted to the usual firebrand flinging). I am of the conviction that this "fact filled day" neither exists nor works.
HEY, I'll even get you started, "prime the fact pump" so to speak with a couple of unspoken but ever-present atheist facts: FACT: EVERY STATEMENT CAN BE MISCHARACTERIZED AND TWISTED THEN SUBSEQUENTLY RIDICULED. Which means that THIS statement too can be mischaracterized and twisted and,....you do the math.
Atheists are the ones that proclaim a "myth" that's not there: THE ATHEIST FACTUAL DAY (in all its splendor). They claim to be "factually born" and "factually fed". They are "factually sustained"; they "find facts", "celebrate facts", "pontificate facts" and "share facts" in a harmony only known to "fellow fact-eees".
Now when somebody asks them to line up a illustrative fact demo for the unknowing (the fact-less) - they jump like rabbits into the briar patch and escape into a tangled thorny lair of raging and laughing and dissemination - all which requires an UNADMITTED FAITH in their ability to hide this fact by muddying the water.
Which brings me to ATHEIST FACT #2: ATHEISTS CONSTANTLY USE BUT DON'T ADMIT FAITH. This would be a healthy fact for you and the community to face honestly - and work through as a group. If you did you might flush out something in there that's not worthy of faith - something that's not really God, something that might even resemble yourself.
Placebos work by exactly the same mechanism. FAITH.
It was still quite easy...
Placebos are fake cures for fake diseases. But sin is a real disease, and Dr. jesus has the only suppository that works.
There are no theists on operating tables.
I have never questioned your faith nor that it works for you. Many people rely on delusions to get them through life and quite frankly I don't give a damn.
I have never made that claim.
Do you know what a fact is?
I suggest you read the works of Raymond Smullyan, he did quite a bit of the math on this very subject in a way that is accessible to laypeople.
I don't know the atheist who has ever proclaimed a "factual day".
You are completely incoherent.
Define "faith".
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
...still...
You should question your atheist game plan and how it works for you. Life is to short to get through on delusions. The only way to get through life is on the truth of jesus.
Of course I do. The word of god is filled with facts.
I suggest you read the works of god. His truth is eternal and accessible to everyone.
Faith is what works -- as long as it's faith in jesus.
There are no theists on operating tables.
BE,
I think this video sums up the debate we're having here: You might want to check it out - I just watched it, it's saying the same thing I've been saying. I'd like to hear your answer to these questions.
Evolution vs God
I think it is safe to say that everyone on this site has heard of Jesus and most of these people don't believe in him or in God. Matt 28:19 says "Go ye therefore and teach all nations....." IMO, this verse is telling Jesus's believers to tell those who didn't know about Jesus that the Messiah had came (and the whole Jesus story.) I know it is common for Christians to believe they are suppose to try to convert nonbelievers into believers but I am not sure what part of the Bible makes them believe this. Btw, I am not trying to argue with you but I would like to know what verses makes you feel compelled to try to convert us.
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe. - Carl Sagan
Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion. - School Superintendent on "The Simpsons" episode #1
The Capitalist Snow-Dog had tried (again) to correct the Troll's ignorance, but it deftly dodged (again), and sought Comfort in the shade of an intelligently designed banana tree, with its fellow evolutionary transitional form, the Crocoduck.
And yet, it was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's output...
They must not have heard the True Message of jesus, or not have been listening with Open Hearts, or they would have accepted jesus like I did.
The whole bible makes us believe this. When you find the Fountain of Living Water Kool-Aid, you want to share it with the rest of the world before it dies of thirst.
"I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that...I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. " (1 Peter 3:15)
There are no theists on operating tables.
In order to have a debate you would have to offer a cogent point. I'm not going to hold my breath. Nor am I going to offer you an education on evolution, I'm not a professor and don't enjoy teaching-especially subjects I don't find particularly interesting. You are a google search away from literally thousands of scientific journals which painstakingly record physical evidence of evolution.
Here, start with this
http://www.jstor.org/
they allow access to many such journals for free. Then you might be capable of holding an intelligent conversation on the topic. But go have it with someone else because I don't give a flying fuck about evolution, the topic bores me. That is why the topic I was talking about was the history of the Taj Mahal, which has nothing to do with evolution.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
I honestly can't believe I'm even bothering to point this out, but he was merely changing the subject to derail you, as he has been doing for many years to countless other people.
He already has been educated on evolution. Painstakingly so. For him to pretend otherwise is beyond mere dishonesty. People here have actually written papers on the subject for him, dumbed down to a 6th grade level for his benefit. Even if you do his work for him, he will simply ignore it.
There really is no point in keeping this going. For the lurkers ? They have no way of even guessing at the enormity of this person's mendacity without reading over 5 years worth of material. So all you have here is an endless game of who-posts-last-wins. I humbly suggest that this is a waste of anyone's time.
Not only that, it is downright disrespectful to everyone who has patiently answered the questions that he just keeps repeating. This needs to end.
*sigh* Okay, I obviously chose a bad time to come back, since this thread is still going. I'll try again next year. If this thread is still not closed by then, I'm giving up on you guys. No hard feelings.
NoMor,
Recently I found out a better way to clean latex brushes using a hose, Downey and a brush comb. It's so much easier, faster, better. The brush keeps its paint holding ability and "snap". I've told several people about it (the paint store manager, tradesmen, home owners) and I'm sure several of them weren't that excited, but I still am and it's still great. I'm excited about the solution to a problem I fought for years. I don't feel compelled though to make anybody do it. The fact that they don't do it doesn't affect how well it works.
Faith in Jesus and the Scripture wasn't a smooth road or easy for me at first. I had to jettison some deeply ingrained things, fight problems and old thinking. When I came on here several mentioned they had at one time "tried faith in Jesus" (or something like that) then moved on to something better. (it hasn't become evident what that "something better"is) It seems they may have given up in desperation before things came together or something.
However, the Righteousness of God which is by grace through faith in Jesus is still working for me anyway and getting better and better. The "presence of God" 24/7 is a great help and source of strength in this war. The Bible is like spiritual GPS. It's great. I never imagined things could be this good, secure, well-lit, anxiety free, motivated upward, happy - happy - happy.
But I have no idea really how to bring this about in another person any more than I know how seeds grow (and the Scriptures say it's a mystery how the Word of God grows in the heart). The compelling thing about it though is that it still all REALLY WORKS. I have tried to describe how great it is. I would like to make that easier for anybody who is interested in something that works, but I don't feel compelled that people accept it.
BTW - why do atheists "feel compelled" to convert people to atheism?
I understand what you are saying. When I considered myself to be a believer I was concerned for sinners because of the Lake of Fire and tried various strategies to get them to believe in God. I can't remember where the Bible says this exactly but I eventually came to the conclusion that the way God wants Christians to witness to others is to "let their light shine." For some reason, I thought this "light" would shine because of the "gifts of the Spirit" like charity for example. BTW, it has been about 17 or 18 years since I studied the Bible. I don't remember any verses or contexts that said or implied that christians should try to talk or scare people into believing in him if they already had heard of him but didn't believe in him. Anyways, I thought you might know of verses like this.
In regard to wanting to convert theists to atheism, I figured out years ago that I can't change anyone's beliefs. However, I would like theism to end for many reasons but I don't think anything good would come out of us getting into all of that. Instead of trying to change others' views I prefer to accept and respect others and their differences. Have a great day.
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe. - Carl Sagan
Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion. - School Superintendent on "The Simpsons" episode #1
Good Children, I have a suggestion.
Since the Old Troll will answer no question:
It'd be better, perhaps,
To stop feeding It scraps,
And see if It gets indigestion.
There are no theists on operating tables.
We have already seen what happens when you stop feeding the troll, he goes and feeds on posts that are years old. I fully support feeding trolls, the poor little things are just so thrilled by getting any attention at all. A few minutes a week is a small sacrifice for the amount of pleasure a troll gets from a little bit of attention. Now if I can just figure out how to claim the time on my taxes as a charitable contribution...
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
The Capitalist Snow Dog, I fear,
Has a bit of a socialist smear.
For he helps subsidize
All the Troll's scurvy lies,
And the thread drags on year after year.
There are no theists on operating tables.