It works for me!

Fonzie
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It works for me!

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

 


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re:: People get sucked into playing their little game(s):

:Re:: Eyes on the Prize (no kidding)

Mr C O Jones wrote:

danatemporary wrote:
We all, me included, must be careful not to become the thing we hate.

I'm probably not very bright, but what does it all mean??

If you want a broad meaning you'd NEED to read Nu 3381 and 3388-3400, each and every one (links included), I am truly afraid. Most dont bother, if so, it's like walking in on a conversation at near the tail end and being totally lost OTHERWISE. Worth the merry chase (yes).

Lines from a movie:
In the chocolate factory, Charlies' Gramps asks: What Rules ? We didnt see any rules, did we Charlie [Brown]?


Willy Wonka (replies): "Wrong, sir!! Wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by him, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if -- and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy -- "I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges, and licenses herein and herein contained," et cetera, et cetera... "Pau mentis incendium gloria cultum (,in english, Few mental ablazed glory worship) " et cetera, et cetera... "Memo bis punitor delicatum"! It's all there, in black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! .. '"


What has happened, (now) Bible 'honoring' christians are fun:
It is interesting to see the type of people who are attracted to the board.
Verses about 'little kids' in the OT or NT:

But if anyone causes one of these little ones who trusts in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone be hung around his neck and for him to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

But Christ Jesus said, Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the Kindom of heaven"


To:: Mr Jones:

No , I am sure it's my fault and you are being polite is all (I am sure you are plenty bright). Be mindful and always pay attention to who this was addressed to. Certain kind of trolls are attention whores, they dont care about the responses as long as it's all about them. By the stunts they pull, any abuse they receive they most richly deserve (look to the 'badge'). Dont want to be like a troll (ever) Smiling I cant summarize this, you have to read back (on this)!!

==========================

Not that you personally asked nor something I want to highlight but for the lurker (alone).

An example of an allusion. I wrote: "Every idle keystroke (every idle keystroke)".

Biblical passage Ref. --

Matt Chapter 12:36 But I say to you that every idle word men may speak, they will give an account in the day of Judgment.

Lowers the whole conversation but is, all the same, somewhat necessary.


Recognize the ultimate source, those it made me so mad moments are a test to begin with. What is so very encouraging is the current crop of the board's worst (Top 5) have been caught in so many inconsistencies and falsehoods, one could easily humiliate them to the extreme (so it is held/withheld in reserve, only because of personal predilections against intentionally hurting them), held/withheld but in reserve just the same. Let us at the database, and we can always serve it up right. This wont happen so the Troll sits backs and laughs at the system.

:

Misc --




( edit:: Two typeos and dropped letter 'e' )


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So your saying that your

So your saying that your happiest serving god? who tells you to ignore your emotional needs and bear the weight of humanities sins or "take up your own cross". Your fine with his asking you to suffer for him all your life? well if your that much of a masochist then more power to you, but if you want some kind of higher power to believe in there are many other gods that would not ask you to suffer on their behalf. What atheism has to offer you is as sound mind and the strength to make it through life without needing some off-planet super being to guide you and make everything hunky dory. Maybe (and this is just a suggestion) it's time for you to quite relying on someone else to make your choices and run your life for you a realize that you have the strength to do it on your own. That that magnificent power of god you feel inside yourself is really all you.


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Re:: Always pays to pay attention :)

was addressing a particular someone, more understood as being characterized 'sequentially' in the things I have written.

** Readily available and waiting are the 'digital' satellite trunks, .. film at 11

Nu 3401 ; Nu 3403 (ref. 3395)

It is hard to realize when a person is coming at you pretty hard on here. Not a good look, not a comfortable position for me hold (please, be assured).

(Only starting to sound like tit-for-tat).
Forgiveness is being able to let go of harm done. It is relinquishing a sense of injured entitlement or tit-for-tat

DoctorsFaceoff wrote:
The 50Th Anniversary Special Episode dedicated to The Special Needs Kids (no lie) of 2007, of Doctor Who, episode of the 10 th and 5 th, Doctor Who: Doctor Who (actual) Lines, ranked very high, in the following :
The Tenth Doctor: "You know... I loved being you..back when I first started, at the very beginning Yes I was always trying to be old and grumpy and important...like you do when youre young... [lol] . . and then I was you (smiling) it was all dashing about and playing cricket and my voice going all squeaky when I shouted.. I still do that!..The voice thing... I got that from you!... oh (raising leg) and the trainers and...(Placing glasses on his face) snap!... Cuz you know what Doctor... you were My Doctor...

>> The inclination to act a certain way (fronting), made part of the quote so apt: "back when I first started, at the very beginning, he remarks, Yes I was always trying to be old and grumpy and important ... like you do when you're young...'", so reminding me of a certain person, seemingly thoroughly yielded to self-importance, as impinging on the hopes (in his mind) of the procurement of 'eternal' reward,. And, so this was continued, as it has. Not to sound 'almost' petty, on my part, if he truly continues in these attitudes; and it is Jean, sadly, who will be learning some leasons (that is for sure). Hope for his sake, it all doesnt come too late, for his own well being, is all. There are always consequences for the choices we choose to make. Our public forum is a rare board. Not for those given to this 'fantasy' about bazookas and 'knife fights'., All this must be reminded, though risking greater volatility (before the state of the latter, is worse than the former).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSCMD0Et9rw so important, one would hope taught to you already . . . ?


** * * * **


Prov 16:2 New King James Version (NKJV)

2 All the ways of a young man are pure in his own eyes, But the motives are weighed

Related Thread. But a single citation to support the things that were written, which there are strong arguments for.


Related thread (most informative) http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/32584

Pieces begin to fit .. Nu 1 through Nu 8 (1-8), now it's NOT subtle, as we went out of our way. I need to stop paying attention. The-Title (of the related Thread):: This just in Billy Graham defends Christ Farce Lay


I thought the NT was pretty black and white on things ?!?
==========================================================

:

> Hit and runs are always fun. Further, Havoc is apparently (painfully) NEW !!

** *** **
Notice from server : ImageShack was unable to render this page correctly, icon images may not be loading

Error Message says : If you need help, please Contact ImageShack and reference this page.

Nu 3402


Thread you might want to check into, if you want & you are new:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/33434

>_____>

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/general_conversation_introductions_and_humor/9386

Do enjoy the amenities, of the whole of the board. Do Smiling


p.s. -- Welcome fact is the diversity of the board!! This is a reminder, not being mean, but a reminder.


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ESCAPING THE ORBIT "THOUGHT CIRCLE" to NOWHERE...

Havoc wrote:

So your saying that your happiest serving god? who tells you to ignore your emotional needs and bear the weight of humanities sins or "take up your own cross". Your fine with his asking you to suffer for him all your life? well if your that much of a masochist then more power to you, but if you want some kind of higher power to believe in there are many other gods that would not ask you to suffer on their behalf. What atheism has to offer you is as sound mind and the strength to make it through life without needing some off-planet super being to guide you and make everything hunky dory. Maybe (and this is just a suggestion) it's time for you to quite relying on someone else to make your choices and run your life for you a realize that you have the strength to do it on your own. That that magnificent power of god you feel inside yourself is really all you.

 

 

 

Ha, 

The fact (taken from your own writing) that you are on your own "emotional" and "load bearing" throne, your own "decision" throne, and your own "self-faith" throne - causes you to project a distorted picture (to yourself) of what it is like to have God and Jesus on the throne of your heart.  It's not a learning position you have chosen for yourself.  In the "quest for God" sense you should "get out more" and break free from your bubble. 

Know that the state of affairs you are describing to yourself is all totally inaccurate.  For you to believe your own description shows the need of a Savior to open your blind eyes and the Holy Spirit to light your path so you can see (in faith) things as they truly are - through the eyes of faith (not faith in yourself) but faith in God, and Jesus, and the Word of God. 

As far as God being "off planet" you couldn't be more wrong (again).  God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit come near and make their home in the heart of those who believe in God and in Jesus.  In Christ we get to have 24/7 fellowship with God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit which is more than nuclear help in life.  

While it takes a little faith to give up one of your ideas and just try God's idea instead - the fact is that what you find with that venture is far more than what you gave up and also far more than you could ever have imagined possible.  It may be the thing you would need to give up would be this high regard for yourself and your own plan, ideas, and what you think you know - to explore God's.  If you do... the discovery will be incomprehensible and a never ending adventure.   

If you don't try that you will continue to be left to be the victim of "tail chasing" your own ideas - which will go to some form of "nowhere".  It takes some honest humility to admit that you can't necessarily trust and continue to defend your own perception of things and venture out in faith.  It takes some faith to take just a step toward God - but it can become "God propelling" and "God fulfilling", the journey to the Great Wheel, not alone as you describe, but accompanied by joy and God.      

 

 

 

 

 

 


zarathustra
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There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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ECHO CANYON

 

Z,

You are getting predictable.  Do you remember the time Jesus after His Resurrection ask His fellow travelers, "What things?"

And do you remember the words of Agur son of Jakeh of Massa, "The man says to Ithiel, to Ithiel and Ucal: 'Surely I am too stupid to be a man.  I have not the understanding of a man.  I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One.  Who has ascended to heaven and come down?  Who has gathered the wind in His fists?  Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment?  Who has established all the ends of the earth?  What is His Name and What is His Son's Name?  Surely you know!'"

There are good reasons for being in a learning state - any reason would probably work in a canyon known only for echos.   

 

 

 

 

 


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They look so naturally together .. ..

Re:: Foz Am I doing my search all wrong ???

Fonzie wrote:
..And do you remember the words of Agur son of Jakeh of Massa, "The man says to Ithiel, to Ithiel and Ucal: 'Surely I am too stupid to be a man. I have not the understanding of a man. I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One.

Finding comments 'about' Agur son of Jakeh online, leads to this (via one route):

Was wanting some more on this Agur son of Jakeh,. Admittedly, a few may even find this generally uninformed in the bringing of this up .. however:

Carried off an insult, and made off with the remark, your decision. But I bothered to make a search of the background information on Agur son of Jakeh, YOU mentioned though. Which leads (unexceptedly) to Whitherspoon's famous passage mentioning him, a Agur son of Jakeh, in the following:


"All of our wants are perfectly known to the Almighty, he writes, he is also the best judge of what is good for us, and therefore our position should be weighed and expressed in such terms to leave is much of himself, as to the measured manner of our satisfaction .. You have an example of this pious and prudent conduct, in the prayer of the decisionist/Prophet Agur, just as is read in many of your hearing.. All of his requests are summed up in two hopes, the humble and holy is founded upon the divine promise, as by the on demand nothing was attempting to give you him anything is agreeable with his will, He hears us .. are conceived the following terms, and move far away for me the vanity and lies, give me neither the desires of my heart nor the deception that is caused by self (paraphrased)'"


Alittle oddly, That in turn goes to a link on matters of the heart. And directly led (specifically led) to a YouTube video, I'll share a minor portion of beginning part, starts out:


"There's a common worldly phrase you hear out there that says. "Just follow your heart" or "Just go with your heart" You know that is extractly wrong advise biblically, the worst advise. We are to lead our heart in the way it should go .. we are to lead our hearts to god. You can see this in Numbers 15 :38-40 “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. 39 And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, 40 and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your god". So god is pretty clear, I want you to set up tassels to physically remind you to go after Me, .. Not to go by your own heart and your own eyes your own understanding or your own feelings . And what you want to do. You see, the bible says, insists the YouTubist, we are to lead our own heart and not to follow after our heart. To set up physical reminder to you, [if you will]. In Prov. 23:17 Do not let your heart envy sinners, But be zealous for the fear of the Lord all the day; 18 For surely there is a hereafter, And your hope will not be cut off. So dont let your heart have its' way. We hear he who trusts in his own heart is a fool. Why does it say that he who trusts in his own heart is a fool ? Well, Jesus said, in Matthew, verse 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies..", again are out of the heart. In Jer 17 7 “Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, And whose hope is the Lord. 8 For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, Which spreads out its roots by the river, And will not fear when heat comes; But its leaf will be green, And will not be anxious in the year of drought, Nor will cease from yielding fruit. 9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? 10 I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.'" Then out of the blue, sudden crash and the Blue screen of Death at the very moment it was starting to get good.
Stubbornly curious traces of reactions. Any suggestions or thoughts you'd like 'to share' with the board Fonzie on this search I indicated ? Or did you find similar search results, too ?? Though apparently it is hard to understand not 'all things' are directed towards you. That said, More frankly curious at your own reply to this!!


Fonzie
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MATTERS OF THE HEART

danatemporary wrote:
Re:: Foz Am I doing my search all wrong ???
Fonzie wrote:
..And do you remember the words of Agur son of Jakeh of Massa, "The man says to Ithiel, to Ithiel and Ucal: 'Surely I am too stupid to be a man. I have not the understanding of a man. I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One.
Finding comments 'about' Agur son of Jakeh online, leads to this (via one route):

 

Was wanting some more on this Agur son of Jakeh,. Admittedly, a few may even find this generally uninformed in the bringing of this up .. however: Carried off an insult, and made off with the remark but I bothered to make a search of the background information on Agur son of Jakeh. Which leads (unexceptedly) to Whitherspoon's famous passage mentioning him, a Agur son of Jakeh, in the following:

 

"All of our wants are perfectly known to the Almighty, he writes, he is also the best judge of what is good for us, and therefore our position should be weighed and expressed in such terms to leave is much of himself, as to the measured manner of our satisfaction .. You have an example of this pious and prudent conduct, in the prayer of the decisionist/Prophet Agur, just as is read in many of your hearing.. All of his requests are summed up in two hopes, the humble and holy is founded upon the divine promise, as by the on demand nothing was attempting to give you him anything is agreeable with his will, He hears us .. are conceived the following terms, and move far away for me the vanity and lies, give me neither the desires of my heart nor the deception that is caused by self (paraphrased)'"

 

Alittle oddly, That in turn goes to a link on matters of the heart. And directly led (specifically led) to a YouTube video, I'll share a minor portion of beginning part, starts out:

 

"There's a common worldly phrase you hear out there that says. "Just follow your heart" or "Just go with your heart" You know that is extractly wrong advise biblically, the worst advise. We are to lead our heart in the way it should go .. we are to lead our hearts to god. You can see this in Numbers 15 :38-40 “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. 39 And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, 40 and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your god". So god is pretty clear, I want you to set up tassels to physically remind you to go after Me, .. Not to go by your own heart and your own eyes your own understanding or your own feelings . And what you want to do. You see, the bible says, insists the YouTubist, we are to lead our own heart and not to follow after our heart. To set up physical reminder to you, [if you will]. In Prov. 23:17 Do not let your heart envy sinners, But be zealous for the fear of the Lord all the day; 18 For surely there is a hereafter, And your hope will not be cut off. So dont let your heart have its' way. We hear he who trusts in his own heart is a fool. Why does it say that he who trusts in his own heart is a fool ? Well, Jesus said, in Matthew, verse 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies..", again are out of the heart. In Jer 17 7 “Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, And whose hope is the Lord. 8 For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, Which spreads out its roots by the river, And will not fear when heat comes; But its leaf will be green, And will not be anxious in the year of drought, Nor will cease from yielding fruit. 9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? 10 I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.'" Then out of the blue, sudden crash and the Blue screen of Death at the very moment it was starting to get good. Stubbornly curious traces of reactions. Any suggestions or thoughts you'd like 'to share' with the board Fonzie on this search I indicated ? Or did you find similar search results, too ?? Though apparently it is hard to understand not 'all things' are directed towards you. That said, More frankly curious at your own reply to this!!

 

 

 

 

Danatemporary,

 

I will try to give you my understanding of this which will be incomplete and possibly not what you're looking for; however, the subject you have brought up is of great interest to me.  It's interesting to me we are made in such a way that we can know what's going on in our heart and discern our motives - not always in "real time" (sometimes after we leave a situation we see it).  

Anyway, the Scriptures say that what you are looking for in life - the lost coin, the greatest pearl, happiness, fulfillment whatever, is not to be found in your heart.  One thing I've always hated is having to look for something - especially in all the wrong places.   At the same time there's the joy of finally finding what you are looking for - that's great.

You ask why it is that, "He who trusts in his own heart is a fool".  I think it's answered by Jeremiah 10.23, "I know, O LORD, that the way of man is not in himself, that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps." So after you trust in your own heart for a while and it's not working what would you call it to keep trusting anyway?  I would call myself a fool to continue.  You can come up with your examples of the results of running one's life with feelings - like a wave of the sea.  

It's efficient to instead focus on finding The Way in Scriptures - which speak of Jesus - rather than looking for it where it doesn't exist.  WARNING: when confronted with the gospel, men have been "cut to the heart" - IOW it hurts to shine light in our un-cleansed heart.  But in Christ our sins can be washed away, cleansed by the "Blood of the Lamb".  This isn't just remodeling (or reformation) either.  We are warned that if we kick the devil out (reform ourselves) he goes and gets a bunch more devils and sets a double guard over our heart (one guard might be "self righteousness).  

So we can expect that coming face to face with the gospel will hurt.  But with understanding the problem comes the solution.  We are cleansed then God and Christ and the Holy Spirit come and make their home in our heart.  So we are constructed in such a way that we can entertain the divine guest in our heart.  And the presence of God fulfills us and secures us against defeat by the enemy.   

I hope that helps.  My favorite proverb of all time is, "Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life".  If you keep the weeds pulled - good things can happen.  Also this proverb says to me - it's better to be alert than strong.

My quote from Augur is simply from the book of Proverbs.  Solomon collected Proverbs and said (Ecclesiastes 12) beware of other proverbs - these all come from One Shepherd.  Solomon was guided by the Holy Spirit in what he wrote as were all the other Bible writers.  (2 Timothy 3.16) All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, reproof, ..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 


danatemporary
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Yet do you not understand.. people can misunderstand one another

Swiftly blow the fears away ... ...

Make the connection

Quote:
sometimes we have to leave the situation to see it

Never was a Pink (artist) fan, lyrics from recent hit:

Eh, eh, eh

Funny how the heart can be deceiving
More than just a couple times
Why do we fall in love so easy?
Even when it's not right

(Involuntarily wincing) Truth or dare (or what ?)! There is not a situation in my case to draw closer to or to leave. Closest I have come to that has not been within 15 feet. I may only speak for myself, not all too surprisingly, I (personally) have taken all the best of the traditions and owned them. In a manner of speaking they own me (in a literal sense),. No the bad man didnt touch me in the bad place and that explains my choices (Cap) .. .. I am sorry to say any of this, they and many find me a bit sensitive about this area, after my first encounter on the board with a member, some guy in Trollville's allegations. Especially when he got done saying all this stuff about what my 'boyfriend' and I were up to. Shows how truly bright people are when they judge a book by its' cover. He had no way of describing in detail who I really am ? So Where's all this coming from then ? Boatloads of fierceness wanted to take aim and blow him out of the water for ever saying all that, the reckless creep!! Yet one more working off a false set of assumptions about people. His allegations, were more telling about his wrong upbringing, then anything ever having to do with me; (wonder what the devil's own is doing today). Being reminded of that time, I havent seen B166ER log-in like forever. About me, I sure am over sensative, indicating I have a lot of growing up to do in some areas (myself), because a lot of things easily bother me. Curious how Trolls never seem to recognize their own faults, or bother to even care about how they treat people (like with that guy). I know, Things will bother me, Far too much so, even in taken offense too easily! I found, I had to inform Mr Imagination, (with the former member's badge of honor): Sorry Bright eyes, doesnt apply with this individual (sorry to shatter your worldview). Oh, It did NOT stop there. One of the guys made all these descriptive things to things/links about a promiscuous and immoral woman were included about me, in what he wrote. And I was hard pressed not to lay into him for even suggesting this of me. I chose to say absolutely nothing at the time, giving him a pass; but whether that was wise I still cannot say (I couldnt say to this day). We are to overcome evil with good!! They dont know who picks me up, WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND. Clearly, Connection to my upbringing, of course. The tri-blessings of Providence made sure to bring about things for my good. It is hard to get up to stuff, if there is nobody around to get up to stuff with, I guess. One can find an upside of almost anything if you choose to. I can choose to suffer, for my ultimate good,. I am thankful, I can only speak for myself, NO HARM DONE, You obviously have no clue as to how isolated a rural location can become if taken to the extreme. I wasnt one of those so sheltered I was never urged to do otherwise (everyone on the board is an individual) I'm 4/5 spotless Lamby lamb myself. As much as I am found to be joking, at times (even deemed inappropriate humor); let's stress, I can be quite sincere at times, all the same. And often people wont realize when I am being serious. I get caught in indecision, by either not having a enough to go on or the real fear of over-reacting in my replies. My sincere apologies if I mistook your meaning (See: Quote) Foz (nothing personal, IF I did)

p.s. -- It nice to know I wont be destroying any credibility by sticking to what is a fact, that way you understand where I'm coming-from, as an individual.

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danatemporary wrote:Swiftly

danatemporary wrote:
Swiftly blow the fears away ... ...

 

 

Make the connection

 

Quote:
sometimes we have to leave the situation to see it
Never was a Pink (artist) fan, lyrics from recent hit:

 

Eh, eh, eh Funny how the heart can be deceiving More than just a couple times Why do we fall in love so easy? Even when it's not right

 

(Involuntarily wincing) Truth or dare (or what ?)! There is not a situation in my case to draw closer to or to leave. Closest I have come to that has not been within 15 feet. I may only speak for myself, not all too surprisingly, I (personally) have taken all the best of the traditions and owned them. In a manner of speaking they own me (in a literal sense),. No the bad man didnt touch me in the bad place and that explains my choices (Cap) .. .. I am sorry to say any of this, they and many find me a bit sensitive about this area, after my first encounter on the board with a member, some guy in Trollville's allegations. Especially when he got done saying all this stuff about what my 'boyfriend' and I were up to. Shows how truly bright people are when they judge a book by its' cover. He had no way of describing in detail who I really am ? So Where's all this coming from then ? Boatloads of fierceness wanted to take aim and blow him out of the water for ever saying all that, the reckless creep!! Yet one more working off a false set of assumptions about people. His allegations, were more telling about his wrong upbringing, then anything ever having to do with me; (wonder what the devil's own is doing today). Being reminded of that time, I havent seen B166ER log-in like forever. About me, I sure am over sensative, indicating I have a lot of growing up to do in some areas (myself), because a lot of things easily bother me. Curious how Trolls never seem to recognize their own faults, or bother to even care about how they treat people (like with that guy). I know, Things will bother me, Far too much so, even in taken offense too easily! I found, I had to inform Mr Imagination, (with the former member's badge of honor): Sorry Bright eyes, doesnt apply with this individual (sorry to shatter your worldview). Oh, It did NOT stop there. One of the guys made all these descriptive things to things/links about a promiscuous and immoral woman were included about me, in what he wrote. And I was hard pressed not to lay into him for even suggesting this of me. I chose to say absolutely nothing at the time, giving him a pass; but whether that was wise I still cannot say (I couldnt say to this day). We are to overcome evil with good!! They dont know who picks me up, WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND. Clearly, Connection to my upbringing, of course. The tri-blessings of Providence made sure to bring about things for my good. It is hard to get up to stuff, if there is nobody around to get up to stuff with, I guess. One can find an upside of almost anything if you choose to. I can choose to suffer, for my ultimate good,. I am thankful, I can only speak for myself, NO HARM DONE, You obviously have no clue as to how isolated a rural location can become if taken to the extreme. I wasnt one of those so sheltered I was never urged to do otherwise (everyone on the board is an individual) I'm 4/5 spotless Lamby lamb myself. As much as I am found to be joking, at times (even deemed inappropriate humor); let's stress, I can be quite sincere at times, all the same. And often people wont realize when I am being serious. I get caught in indecision, by either not having a enough to go on or the real fear of over-reacting in my replies. My sincere apologies if I mistook your meaning (See: Quote) Foz (nothing personal, IF I did)

 

p.s. -- It nice to know I wont be destroying any credibility by sticking to what is a fact, that way you understand where I'm coming-from, as an individual.

 

 

___ Boring is safe; boring is good ¬ Ron Stoppable

 

 

Danatemporary,

I was only speaking in general about guarding the heart,  not about you personally in any way.   

 

 


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Christian circles have a phrase: "I dont feel led of the Lord"

Re :: Christian circles understand the phrase: "I dont feel led of the LORD to .." (this is similar) :

THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY DIRECTED AT YOU PERSONALLY FONZIE, so no need to 'react'. A important general reminder.


See :: Image Upload on bearing false witness


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Matters of the heart you MUST be minimizing passions:

Matters of the heart you MUST be minimizing passions..

Song by Bread (a band):

I found her diary underneath a tree And started reading about me The words she'd written took me by surprise You'd never read them in her eyes They said that she had found The love she'd waited forWouldn't you know it?She wouldn't show it
When she confronted with the writing there Simply pretended not to care I passed it off as just in keeping with Her total disconcerting air (and her downward glance).
And though she tried to hide The love that she denied Wouldn't you know it? She wouldn't show it And as I go through my lifeI will give to her my wifeAll the sweet things, I can find I found her diary underneath a tree And started reading about me(?) The words began to stick and tears to flowHer meaning now was clear to see The love she'd waited for Was someone else not me Wouldn't you know it? She wouldn't show it
And as I go through my life I will wish for her his wife All the sweet things she can find All the sweet things they can find


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Trailer for Hallmarks' Journey to the West . .

Trailer for Hallmarks' Journey to the West . .

Link :: www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWcr7GWBqOA

The Monkey King, known as also as The Lost Empire on American shores, is a tv mini-series from Hallmark Entertainment. Yeah, Hallmark ? Hallmark not a place for an accurate adaptation, I'm afraid. Adaptations of Journey to the West have been very popular in Asian countries, although the story is almost completely unknown in the West. "Other versions include:– the Japanese film Monkey Sun (1940); the Chinese film Princess Iron Fan (1941) based on a partial segment of the story; the Japanese film Songoku: The Road to the West/The Adventures of Sun Wu Hung (1959); the Japanese anime Alakazam the Great (1961); the Chinese animated film The Monkey King: Uproar in Heaven (1965), which is a good adaptation of the story (to date); a South Korean tv series Journey to the West (1982); a Japanese tv series Journey to the West (1993); director Jeffrey Lau’s two-part Hong Kong film A Chinese Odyssey Part 1: Pandora’s Box (1994) and the Hong Kong tv mini-series The Monkey King (2002); Jeffrey Lau’s remake of his earlier work A Chinese Tall Story (2005); a Japanese tv series Saiyuki (2006), which had one film spinoff with Saiyuki (2007); the Western-made Jackie Chan/Jet Li vehicle The Forbidden Kingdom (2008); and the modernised Emperor Visits the Hell (2012). The most well known of these in the West was the Japanese tv series Monkey (1978-9), which attained a cult appeal for its gonzo exploits and kung fu scenes.The Monkey King promisingly comes written by David Henry Hwang'". I far more enjoyed the Peking Opera societies' version of Journey to the West (with english subtitles).


p.s. -- Oh, Of Course, Hallmark (Entertainment) is the spearhead in the momentum towards the Occult due to replacement of Judeo-Christian values, (in their mini-series), as what has happened in the school system, suggestions from Berit Kjos will undoubtedly affirm,. (So, Know I can personally say I havent watched much of their tripe).


By Hanuman's tail, you know this.


____

The path of the gods is not safe for men ..



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THE GPS OF FEELINGS RECALL

danatemporary wrote:
Re :: Christian circles understand the phrase: "I dont feel led of the LORD to .." (this is similar) : THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY DIRECTED AT YOU PERSONALLY FONZIE, so no need to 'react'. A important general reminder.

 

See :: Image Upload on bearing false witness

 

 

Dana,

It is very serious to slander and misrepresent man or God.  There are wheat and tares growing together in the kingdom of heaven.  Our business is not pulling them up but rather sowing the seed.  I have heard the phrase you mentioned, "feeling" (or not) "led by the LORD".  It's a very dangerous GPS to be led by the weather of feelings rather than the Word of God as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and seen through the eyes of faith. 

I view the heart as our personal garden.  We can't make things grow but we can guard and keep weeds pulled with God's help.  Then good things can grow.   

 


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'Feelings' , what ???

'Feelings' , what ???

 

Re :: 'Feelings' , what ???

 

3414 (3414b only) Image. All this time here, and it's still not your home!!

 

Book of Galatians sends to ALL something applicable in Gal. 5:13c -- , my true brethren, only let not your liberty be an opportunity of the flesh, but you serve one another

 

Peace Mentioned lyrics from a song. Bread was a band in the seventies, 'they' wrote lyrics to some of their songs,. Re-read may be good of Nu 3412, OKAY ? As for Pink, after her series of disasters (LYRICS are telling). You've got to-give Ms. plucky credit for having the willingness to keep trying.

 

 

Image part of reply ..

 

 

If I have to explain this, that indicates you know nothing of who I am/was talking about or her music (is all). Generational thing. More than occasionally I'm not going to be happy with your replies but at what point was the goal ever: 'my' happiness.

 

 

Good to be free to enjoy the 'whole' of the board. Unrelated. The board has its' regulars, and we might not always see it, but in a real sense we ARE all friends (it is seen best through these tiniest of acts to support one another, without a thought) in the larger family. I wanted to remark of this to another member just today.

p.s. -- God's Holy GPS ?? ? The false analogy's with the GPS of the Lord and where w/ yours connected. Geosynchronous orbit(-ing) Global Positioning Satellites are set in their place by man & are man-made. If you don't want people wasting time explaining why you shouldn't use GPS analogy, so I couldnt suggest you use-it anymore (or 'do')


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(Poe)

It was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's output:

danatemporary wrote:
p.s. -- God's Holy GPS ?? ? The false analogy's with the GPS of the Lord and where w/ yours connected. Geosynchronous orbit(-ing) Global Positioning Satellites are set in their place by man & are man-made. If you don't want people wasting time explaining why you shouldn't use GPS analogy, so I couldnt suggest you use-it anymore (or 'do')

But man is god-made, and so is the Globe man positions himself on.  When your soul is lost, it can't just mapquest the way back.  The only correct route to Home Base is in the bible.

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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Found time to recall Mahabharata's important words

By even some light reading, (at a cursory level), I assume you were able to recall this, because at one point or another you familized yourself with this, all on your own, at any level ?

There were plots and schemes to kill of the the Pandavas (or Pandevas). Their rivals, with rightful rulers, were like two forces that are said to be “interdependent partners.”They believed that one couldn’t exist without the other. Where the good is to out shine the bad.

Words from the text ..

"'..They stood silent and lost in thoughts, on the shores the dashed against the sea. Arjuna flung his might Gandiva and the inexhaustible quiver into the sea. They traveled towards the north. Yudhisthira led the party. Bhima followed Yudhisthira, then Arjuna then the twins and then lastestly Draupadi. Traveling behind was a dog, a faithful companion to Yudhisthira. The seven of them reached the Himavan. Toiling up hard, they reached the very mountain of Meru.
As they proceeded further climbing the steps of the slopes of that now, Draupadi, the lotus-eyed succumb, drop-down and died. Bhima said to Yudhisthira, "Brother, why has Draupadi died [of attitude sickness], the faultless, fallen down dead?" Yudhisthira said, "We are all her husbands but she loved Arjuna the most. That was her greatest fault".[ Recall the episode of the near adulterer Dushasana dragged Draupadi into the assembly, at the bequest of his brother Duryodhana, and tried to disrobe her. Draupadi prayed to Sri Krishna and he made her sari to be of infinite length, so Dushasana could not take it off. However, the princess was humiliated as she was dragged into court by her hair. Because of this humiliation, Draupadi vows that she will not tie her hair until she washes it with the blood of Dushasana's chest. To her credit,. ] So they continued on a pilgrimage, on the slopes, with their minds established well in yoga. Then, Sahadeva dropped down (on a perilous journey), dead. And Bhima asked of Yudhisthira, Brother, What makes the humble Sahadeva fall dead?" Yudhisthira answered, "Sahadeva was proud of his wisdom. He has paid for the sin of this". Nakula was the next to collaspse, and Yudhisthira explained that he dropped down dead because he was vain of his beauty and yet ignorant of this fault, thought and none more handsome has/than he,. He had to pay for his sin eventually. Then they went on climbing. Finally it was the mighty Bhima who collapsed. As he fell, he called out, "What make me fall; and what sin have I committed, my brother ?" "My dear brother, you were a proud man and a boaster, and a glutton", said Yudhisthira without turning back. "These were your two greatest faults, in this place these faults of yours are the cause of your collapse". Now, only the dog was left and the dog kept him company. They had reached the end of their pilgrimage, but the final ordeal of Yudhisthira was not yet over. Suddenly Indra appeared before him, and invited him to ascend on his chariot. His brothers and wive had already reached the heaven. He alone was granted the boon (google it) reached the heaven of Indra human form. (Although) Yudhisthira felt honoured, but he declined to ascend in the chariot, because he was not allowed to carry his faithful dog with. He cannot be persuaded to abandon the lowly creature, led been so devoted and so faithful throughout. At once the dog changed its' form, and there stood Dharma himself instead. Dharma (his father), immensely pleased with Yudhisthira, said, "my son, I am so proud of you and of your compassion. As in your piety and compassion for all living beings none can equal you. You deserve a reward of heaven so richly come along with us to heaven."They altogether in the chariot reached the heaven. The gods and also the rishis welcomed Yudhisthira at the gate. In the heaven he saw Duryodhana sitting resplendent in his bejeweled throne, but in either his brothers, nor their wife Draupaudi, nor any one else. He asked where they were ? And attended let them out of heaven. Gradually grew dim and then dark and darker, the air was full of stench. As Yudhisthira further he came across the weird and horrible spectacle. It became unbearable. He asked the attendant where he was. Why the place was so dreadful where his brothers and Draupadi all were ? He became so intolerable that he at once decided to return. But then he heard the suffocating voices requesting him not leave (them all). His presence almost soothed and alleviated their sufferings. The voices seem familiar. The speakers were Radheya, Bhima, Arjuan, and others, and Draupadi.
Yudhisthira was amazed by all he saw and confused. He did not know why his brothers, were so pure and righteous in life were in hell and sinful Duryodhana was in the heaven ? The divine attendant returned and reported to Indra, what Yudhisthira had said and done.
Immediately Indra accompanied with many of the other gods, presented himself in the presence of Yudhisthira. Instantly the nightmarish scene disappeared. Illusion had vanished, and it became all so beautiful and wonderful. They all stood all of his brothers, and their wive Draupadi and others full of glory, amidst the self-effulgent gods, the Maruts, Rishis, the god Indra and the god Dharma and others. Indra welcomed him; Dharma congratulated him on his triumphant brilliant success in his final ordeal ! As Yudhisthira Had dipped in the ganga of Heaven and human nature was cast-off and shed .. He saw .. The other heroes dazzling splendor .."



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Found time to recall reference to a "Tail", where it was ??

Found time to recall reference to a "Tail", where it was ??
By Hanuman's tail, you know this.


 


____


 


The path of the gods is not safe for men ..


 


Ref. Resemblance to a similar 'type' creature, in various traditional venerated stories -- (tie in, also the resemblance, and almost a counterpart, though distinctly different are the two) Remember the brief account in the Mahabharata. Sri Hanuman (google it), known for his great devotion and aid to Sri Ram (Rama) was set in a little scene, I am sure must be common knowledge by now, with Bhim meeting of Hanumanji,. Everybody recall Bhima (Bhim), the mighty one, set to a task in search of something for Draupadi (a female, the madwoman who finds herself espoused to all the pandavas, they all were a direct result of Pandu's alleged 'curse') and so sought after what some say was the flower of the Saugandhika plant and who had requested Bhima to bring some of its' flowers. On the way, remember who blocks his path Bhima finds himself on. After proving Garima, after revealing his true self the Divine Monkey said in the text: "I am stopping you from going on this road; Fore it is which is cherished by the gods, lest anyone assail or curse you .. For it is a divine pathway, and no humans travel it. (Paraphrased) 'The path of the gods is not safe for men'" I was at a Dive for late lunch yesterday, and overheard a conversation, though I didnt want to bring it up, strongly reminded me of Draupadi. Where's her saying, Garbage!! If Shiva manifested were himself to assure me, sorry I'm backing out !! Oh it was because of a previous life,. Oh However idiotic or senseless to suggest one of the few moments you wish to had the original right to change the text to have Draupadi instead retort: I dont believe in reincarnation (I can think of others who, at times, joke in this manner).



p.s. -- You can study something and broaden your knowledge, even allow it to influence you profoundly WITHOUT being a ardent devotee or an adherent of any kind, so you dont get somehow confused.


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DP Double Post

DP Double Post

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p.s. -- You can study something and broaden your knowledge, even allow it to influence you profoundly WITHOUT being a ardent devotee or an adherent of any kind, so you dont get somehow confused.


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THE DOOR, THE TOOLS, THE WAY, THE PLAN

Havoc wrote:

So your saying that your happiest serving god? who tells you to ignore your emotional needs and bear the weight of humanities sins or "take up your own cross". Your fine with his asking you to suffer for him all your life? well if your that much of a masochist then more power to you, but if you want some kind of higher power to believe in there are many other gods that would not ask you to suffer on their behalf. What atheism has to offer you is as sound mind and the strength to make it through life without needing some off-planet super being to guide you and make everything hunky dory. Maybe (and this is just a suggestion) it's time for you to quite relying on someone else to make your choices and run your life for you a realize that you have the strength to do it on your own. That that magnificent power of god you feel inside yourself is really all you.

 

 

Havoc,

Yes I am totally happy and fulfilled in fellowship with God and in the presence of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit.  I have "gotten in" to Jesus Christ (been born into Christ actually) like a little irritant into a oyster and He is making a pearl out of the transaction.  

As far as "emotional needs" - what you are looking at there is a part of the temporary world, feelings.  It is a dismal trip to follow the weather vane of "feelings".  In Christ we have spiritual substance to stand on, be fulfilled by.  These things don't move.  So Paul can see his "outer man wasting away" and yet his "inner man is being renewed daily" by the Holy Spirit.  This is a nuclear generator operating within us.  

Atheism doesn't have a "sound mind" to offer you.  None of the atheists have been able to bring even the slightest perspective or understanding of life that makes sense.  They are bouncing around like ping pong balls on the Atlantic telling each other how wonderful it is to keep the lie alive.  No atheist has made sense about why we are here, how he is going to go about really "helping his fellow man", what true help really is, what is beyond death.  They have no plan, they make no sense, but they won't be honest about that and cry out to God - though He would be glad to help them come to Him in Christ.  There is no strength in a lie or fooling oneself which is the position of the atheist.  There is no strength in arrogance - the atheist acting like he "knows his way himself" when it's not there.  There is strength in seeing things as they are and humbling oneself before God, realizing that however much we think we know it's nothing compared to what there is to know and submitting to God's plan.  

Maybe, and this is just a suggestion, it's time for you to quit fooling yourself about your own strength and insight and submit to God Who can give you the tools to open Life up to you.  The Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing to the division of bone and marrow and enabling you to discern the purposes and intentions of your heart.  If you go through the Door of Christ you will be on The Way.   

 

 

 

 


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Havoc HAS left the building ( & said all he had to) . . . .

Fonzie wrote:

Havoc wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

but if you want some kind of higher power to believe in there are many other gods that would not ask you to suffer on their behalf.

Maybe (and this is just a suggestion) it's time for you to quite relying on someone else to make your choices and run your life for you a realize that you have the strength to do it on your own.

There is no strength in a lie or fooling oneself which is the position of the atheist. There is no strength in arrogance - the atheist acting like he knows his way himself when it's not there. There is strength in seeing things as they are and humbling oneself before God,

To the OP: If you had some time and experience in more general conversations, you wouldn't have missed Havoc used this same statement in three separate occasions (honestly). So, The likelihood of a reply from Havoc is next to zero; (I EASILY could show where Havoc did re-use the same wording over and over). You are welcome to talk to any of the other four that will be around, as always Smiling

You are right Foz about one thing, no individual never does themselves any favors in being arrogant. It is too easy to lose. You should know, most people make a fatal error in not looking out for this common ruinous pitful (Atheists fall prey to this all too commonly, and it can be quite ugly and highly counterproductive). Unfortunately, There are many trapped by arrogance with no knowledge of it, even people I generally deeply respect. Ironically, Read beyond this thread, put your own selfish ways aside; then pick out who is showing a greater desire to be humble? The obvious answer to conclude may SIMPLY shock you!! If a problem with pride persists ..Never hurts to acknowledge what is (with some),.
The Paths (the paths people end up on):
In the Garuda Purana it writes:


107b The seeker of Truth should, with breath controlled, restrain his mind, not forgetting austerities (99), vows of virtue, obligations, and pilgrimages.

109=110 The hypocrites, devoid of knowledge and unattachment, DO NOT GO THERE. Instead I will tell you of the wise, who go to that goal: Free from pride and rejecting delusion, with the evils of carnality & attachment conquered, always dwelling in a Higher Self, with desires overcome, released from thoses contracts known as pleasure and pain, they go, undeluded, on that everlasting individual path,.


(Edit :: Dropped "L", it's spelled : pitfall)

P.S. -- Oh, To find the means and methods to extol that worthy of being extolled (and lived out)!


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SEEING UNSEEN ITEMS

danatemporary wrote:
Fonzie wrote:

Havoc wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

but if you want some kind of higher power to believe in there are many other gods that would not ask you to suffer on their behalf. Maybe (and this is just a suggestion) it's time for you to quite relying on someone else to make your choices and run your life for you a realize that you have the strength to do it on your own. There is no strength in a lie or fooling oneself which is the position of the atheist. There is no strength in arrogance - the atheist acting like he knows his way himself when it's not there. There is strength in seeing things as they are and humbling oneself before God,

To the OP: If you had some time and experience in more general conversations, you wouldn't have missed Havoc used this same statement in three separate occasions (honestly). So, The likelihood of a reply from Havoc is next to zero; (I EASILY could show where Havoc did re-use the same wording over and over). You are welcome to talk to any of the other four that will be around, as always Smiling You are right Foz about one thing, no individual never does themselves any favors in being arrogant. It is too easy to lose. You should know, most people make a fatal error in not looking out for this common ruinous pitful (Atheists fall prey to this all too commonly, and it can be quite ugly and highly counterproductive). Unfortunately, There are many trapped by arrogance with no knowledge of it, even people I generally deeply respect. Ironically, Read beyond this thread, put your own selfish ways aside; then pick out who is showing a greater desire to be humble? The obvious answer to conclude may SIMPLY shock you!! If a problem with pride persists ..Never hurts to acknowledge what is (with some),. The Paths (the paths people end up on): In the Garuda Purana it writes:

 

107b The seeker of Truth should, with breath controlled, restrain his mind, not forgetting austerities (99), vows of virtue, obligations, and pilgrimages. 109=110 The hypocrites, devoid of knowledge and unattachment, DO NOT GO THERE. Instead I will tell you of the wise, who go to that goal: Free from pride and rejecting delusion, with the evils of carnality & attachment conquered, always dwelling in a Higher Self, with desires overcome, released from thoses contracts known as pleasure and pain, they go, undeluded, on that everlasting individual path,.

 

(Edit :: Dropped "L", it's spelled : pitfall) P.S. -- Oh, To find the means and methods to extol that worthy of being extolled (and lived out)!

 

Dana,

I think you've attributed a couple of statements by Havoc to me - no problem.  

I wanted to mention something interesting I've come across.  In the 1920's  a man named Francis Burdette became blind at the age of 50 through an accident - hit by a streetcar or something.  He battled despair and won (as evidenced by his cheerful disposition and lack of complaining), and went back to work at a wooden box factory and was able to keep up his part on the line though blind.  He built a 2 room bungalow for he and his wife but started getting this picture in his mind of this house he wanted to build.  

He planned and planned it but couldn't get a loan with no written down plan.  But he found a friendly lumberyard man who had faith in him and things started to fall into place.  He had several struggles but his great desire to accomplish what he saw in his mind's eye and heart and a desire to accomplish it strengthened him to keep going.  He knew where his tools were and had a picture of the whole thing.  Late one night he had to lead a group out because they were watching him and it got dark.   It took him over 2 years to complete it.  

Toward the end  he was becoming famous for the accomplishment.  The house was not a simple one - it was 3 story with gambrel roof with dormers built into the roof, 17 windows.  It still stands in Wayne NJ.  A friend of mine who is a steward for an airline dropped by a couple of weeks ago and took pictures.  

Toward the end some companies wanted their products displayed in his accomplishment.  A company wanted their best boiler and radiator system displayed for advertisement as a trophy.  A company wanted him to use their varnish, their paint.

We who are in Christ at one time became blind and it wasn't an accident.  God sent light and we saw treasure in Christ though dimly.  We were born again, all things were made new.  We are now a new creation.  Now we see through eyes of faith.  It's a struggle like Francis building his house, but we see eternal things to build on that aren't moving.  We who have been born again have managed to get inside Christ by the grace of God and as the parable suggests He is making a pearl out of us irritants.  Faith in Jesus and God and the Word of God allows us to see what's going on and what's coming at us.  The Sword divides bone and marrow and enables us to discern intentions of the heart.  We can tell feelings from the eternal unseen and build on the eternal rather than feelings.  We can discern the lies of the devil versus the Truth of the Word of God through the coaching of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God - all which we see with the eyes of faith in God.  It's all to His glory.  It's refreshing to get off the "throne" and stay off it and instead submit to God and His Plan.  

UNLESS THE LORD BUILDS THE HOUSE THOSE WHO BUILD LABOR IN VAIN  - UNLESS THE LORD WATCHES OVER THE CITY THE WATCHMAN STAYS AWAKE IN VAIN. 

 

 


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Conversation(s) go two ways ...

Re :: Conversation(s) go two ways . .



Building codes are in place to protect us from substandard practices & workmanship . .
=========================================

A belly landing vs. bailout

Columbia 'Sacrifice' ::Remembering the Fallen (double meaning):

When forced to break out the "we who are in christ" speech, not giving the best of impressions. Good to share however. You've gone and done it now, merely unaware of other religion's content (so we are left with this) . . .

And So It Begins .. just start talking about anything that tickles your fancy. Okay, Then:


Space Shuttle Columbia disaster
STS-107 Flight

"The Space Shuttle Columbia disaster occurred on February 1, 2003, when shortly before it was scheduled to conclude its 28th mission, STS-107.." Tragically the (Space) Shuttle broke apart ending in tragedy, it was destroyed, the crew was lost and left no survivors. Funeral rites dont bring the crew back,. Tendencies to ignore others completely were found throughout the interdepartmental insane folly that is NASA! The Shuttle program also was using the fleet of these operational aircraft instead of designating them the experimental ships that they truly were. There were plenty of signs something was amiss.

In a NewYork Times article (Dec. 30th, 2008) it said: "In a scathing report issued in August 2003, an investigative board later found that a “broken safety culture” at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration was largely responsible for the deaths."

The original design specifications for these experimental vehicles stated that the external tank was not to shed foam or other debris; therefore, strikes upon the vehicle were safety issues that needed to be resolved, later found to be, 'an acceptable risk'. After an earlier mission, the situation was analyzed and NASA decided to press ahead. The crew on a mission were subject to the petty in-fighting and foolish pride of the boys at NASA. All this, due to the foam strike, which caused the rapid in-flight breakup of the (experimental) vehicle, and loss of life,. Chaulk another one up to NASA's insane hubris and scheduling constraints!!

p.s. -- Yes, You do not have to actually address anything anyone else specifically says. How long have you been at this again ?

______

Isaiah 61:3b - 61:3c

To give them beauty for ashes, (The oil of joy for mourning, The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness..)


______

Whilst ever an angel attending sings;
Sorrow's swift 'Shuttles' are marking it off.


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It was still quite easy...

Quote:
Building codes are in place to protect us from substandard practices & workmanship .
   

And when jesus returns for the Final Inspection, will he find that you built your house on sand, or sheet rock?

 

Quote:
Yes, You do not have to actually address anything anyone else specifically says. How long have you been at this again

Why address lies when I can simply keep preaching the Truth?  

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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FIRST WOMAN IN SPACE?

danatemporary wrote:
Re :: Conversation(s) go two ways . .

 

Building codes are in place to protect us from substandard practices & workmanship . . ========================================= A belly landing vs. bailout Columbia 'Sacrifice' ::Remembering the Fallen (double meaning): When forced to break out the "we who are in christ" speech, not giving the best of impressions. Good to share however. You've gone and done it now, merely unaware of other religion's content (so we are left with this) . . .

 

And So It Begins .. just start talking about anything that tickles your fancy. Okay, Then:

 

Space Shuttle Columbia disaster STS-107 Flight

 

"The Space Shuttle Columbia disaster occurred on February 1, 2003, when shortly before it was scheduled to conclude its 28th mission, STS-107.." Tragically the (Space) Shuttle broke apart ending in tragedy, it was destroyed, the crew was lost and left no survivors. Funeral rites dont bring the crew back,. Tendencies to ignore others completely were found throughout the interdepartmental insane folly that is NASA! The Shuttle program also was using the fleet of these operational aircraft instead of designating them the experimental ships that they truly were. There were plenty of signs something was amiss.

 

In a NewYork Times article (Dec. 30th, 2008) it said: "In a scathing report issued in August 2003, an investigative board later found that a “broken safety culture” at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration was largely responsible for the deaths."

 

The original design specifications for these experimental vehicles stated that the external tank was not to shed foam or other debris; therefore, strikes upon the vehicle were safety issues that needed to be resolved, later found to be, 'an acceptable risk'. After an earlier mission, the situation was analyzed and NASA decided to press ahead. The crew on a mission were subject to the petty in-fighting and foolish pride of the boys at NASA. All this, due to the foam strike, which caused the rapid in-flight breakup of the (experimental) vehicle, and loss of life,. Chaulk another one up to NASA's insane hubris and scheduling constraints!!

 

 

p.s. -- Yes, You do not have to actually address anything anyone else specifically says. How long have you been at this again ?

 

______

 

Isaiah 61:3b - 61:3c

 

To give them beauty for ashes, (The oil of joy for mourning, The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness..)

 

______

 

Whilst ever an angel attending sings; Sorrow's swift 'Shuttles' are marking it off.

 

 

Dana,

Was the lift off rushed because of some other interest?  I don't know much about it.  I did see the video several times.  

So what do you want to discuss about it?  He who chops down trees is endangered by them.  He who drives a truck is endangered by traffic.  I would rather die trying to accomplish something than nothing.  

They are dead but not any more dead than any others - such as those shot in Chicago.  Funeral rites aren't expected to bring them back but may be instructive to the living - the wise will take it to heart.

I am alive in Christ and if this body dies I will still be alive in Christ - regardless of the form that death takes.  Thus my hope reaches beyond death in a space shuttle or nursing home or heart failure.  As I see this body wasting away - which is the case for all of us (as maybe "Danatemporary" indicates?) I also see my "inner man" being renewed daily in Christ and God and the Holy Spirit.  

While it's true there are other "gods" men and women believe in and call "god" - I don't believe in them or believe they are gods.  If you do - it's your own scientific experiment to conduct.  I am conducting mine and totally satisfied with my findings in Christ.  I have never had a failure trusting in Him.  There are things I don't understand, things I have never done before, things that cause pain - but trust in HE Who died for me, the LAMB OF GOD has always come through.  I recommend Jesus to you and all - space shuttle or space cadet, first woman in space or spacey woman whatever.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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 DOUBLE LAUNCH  

 

DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLI CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK COUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK

 

It was such mistakes as this that doomed the shuttle...

 

 

 


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I've ALWAYS had the Right Stuff . .

Re :: I've ALWAYS had the Right Stuff . .

Fonzie wrote:
I recommend Jesus to you and all - space shuttle or space cadet, first woman in space or spacey woman whatever.

Hardy har har Which one of us has the Spirit ? .. A verse from the Book Of Isaiah : So shall Your word be that which goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void. But it shall accomplish what I please

Fonzie wrote:

 

DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLI CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK COUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK

 

It was such mistakes as this that doomed the shuttle...

To:: OP

11 minutes of googling and you could have had all the answers to spare the ignorance of this statement ...

right or wrong... agree or disagree... there are answers out there...

It's no 'mystery' as to why and how this disaster occured . All tracking data of the orbiter was lost approimately 8 AM ± 10 minutes Central Standard time.


Try the injured left wing of the orbiter.. several pieces of the left wing's Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (RCC) showed unique signs of heavy erosion due to exposure to extreme heat. High-resolution images taken from a ground-based Air Force tracking camera "in southwestern U.S." show serious structural damage to "the inboard leading edge" of Columbia's left wing. So, No! Not faulty instruments (that is until only mere seconds before the break up) nor was-it computer(s) malfunctioning. But, Mainly it was the Left Bipod Foam Ramp that broke off and damaged the Shuttle's wing during launch. Space Shuttle Columbia disaster STS-107 flight suffered from outright ignoring an advisement to look closer at the possible damage. With a break down in communications and also to fault poor decision-making on NASA's part. Athough, It was the thirteenth time the Shuttle flight had been delayed



_________________________________________________________


.. You see a series of sensor drop-outs one after another , and you assume something is causing them all,. That's when you begin to worry. Narrator: At Mission Control, a-mounting sense of foreboding as Leroy Cain tries to contact commander Rick Husband (the ill-fated Shuttle commander..) the message breaks off abruptly.. (source:: Nat-Geo)



_________________________________________________________

NASA is not great for ensuring input is always an open and frank exchange. In this case not after 13 previous delays.

Not the first American woman in space (or I should say, low-earth-orbit), for that you have to go back to the early to mid-80s, excluding Valentina Tershkova that was NASA's Sally Ride. But something about the first Shuttle Commander .. Return-to-Flight I remember, in archival footage, The first female Shuttle Commander Eileen Collins turning ashen white in a subsequent mission; when the insurmountable indications were the attempts to prevent the foam from shearing off didnt work. Be reminded of the Thermal heat shielding for re-entry. Built largely out of aluminum, its' metal frame simply cannot with-stand the ultra-high temperatures of re-entry. The black tiles being the second most heat resistant, the RCC on the edge being the most,.



Leonard David (Columnist) wrote : "The CAIB made the final conclusion that the foam-shedding incident on Columbia's takeoff affected panel 8 of the RCC heat-shielding (See: Image), which was located on the orbiter's leading edge. That foam strike punctured a hole in the RCC panel roughly 16 inches (41 centimeters) by 16 inches. Analysts estimated that a hole as small as 10 inches (25 cm) across could have caused the orbiter to be destroyed on re-entry through Earth's atmosphere. The superheated air entered the leading-edge insulation and progressively melted the aluminum structure of the left wing, until increasing aerodynamic forces led to loss of control, failure of the wing and disintegration of the orbiter".

No Reply is at all necessary !!


:
P.S. -- Me-Thinks you dont have a firm grasp on basic facts and so you cannot afford such wild guessing!!


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** double post ** 


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PRE IGNITION PLANS

danatemporary wrote:
Re :: I've ALWAYS had the Right Stuff . .

 

Fonzie wrote:
I recommend Jesus to you and all - space shuttle or space cadet, first woman in space or spacey woman whatever.

 

Hardy har har Which one of us has the Spirit ? .. A verse from the Book Of Isaiah : So shall Your word be that which goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void. But it shall accomplish what I please

 

Fonzie wrote:

 

DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLI CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK COUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK DOUBLE CLICK

 

It was such mistakes as this that doomed the shuttle...

 

To:: OP

 

11 minutes of googling and you could have had all the answers to spare the ignorance of this statement ... right or wrong... agree or disagree... there are answers out there...

 

It's no 'mystery' as to why and how this disaster occured . All tracking data of the orbiter was lost approimately 8 AM ± 10 minutes Central Standard time. Try the injured left wing of the orbiter.. several pieces of the left wing's Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (RCC) showed unique signs of heavy erosion due to exposure to extreme heat. High-resolution images taken from a ground-based Air Force tracking camera "in southwestern U.S." show serious structural damage to "the inboard leading edge" of Columbia's left wing. So, No! Not faulty instruments (that is until only mere seconds before the break up) nor was-it computer(s) malfunctioning. But, Mainly it was the Left Bipod Foam Ramp that broke off and damaged the Shuttle's wing during launch. Space Shuttle Columbia disaster STS-107 flight suffered from outright ignoring an advisement to look closer at the possible damage. With a break down in communications and also to fault poor decision-making on NASA's part. Athough, It was the thirteenth time the Shuttle flight had been delayed

 

_________________________________________________________ .. You see a series of sensor drop-outs one after another , and you assume something is causing them all,. That's when you begin to worry. Narrator: At Mission Control, a-mounting sense of foreboding as Leroy Cain tries to contact commander Rick Husband (the ill-fated Shuttle commander..) the message breaks off abruptly.. (source:: Nat-Geo)

 

_________________________________________________________ NASA is not great for ensuring input is always an open and frank exchange. In this case not after 13 previous delays. Not the first American woman in space (or I should say, low-earth-orbit), for that you have to go back to the early to mid-80s, excluding Valentina Tershkova that was NASA's Sally Ride. But something about the first Shuttle Commander .. Return-to-Flight I remember, in archival footage, The first female Shuttle Commander Eileen Collins turning ashen white in a subsequent mission; when the insurmountable indications were the attempts to prevent the foam from shearing off didnt work. Be reminded of the Thermal heat shielding for re-entry. Built largely out of aluminum, its' metal frame simply cannot with-stand the ultra-high temperatures of re-entry. The black tiles being the second most heat resistant, the RCC on the edge being the most,.

 

 

Leonard David (Columnist) wrote : "The CAIB made the final conclusion that the foam-shedding incident on Columbia's takeoff affected panel 8 of the RCC heat-shielding (See: Image), which was located on the orbiter's leading edge. That foam strike punctured a hole in the RCC panel roughly 16 inches (41 centimeters) by 16 inches. Analysts estimated that a hole as small as 10 inches (25 cm) across could have caused the orbiter to be destroyed on re-entry through Earth's atmosphere. The superheated air entered the leading-edge insulation and progressively melted the aluminum structure of the left wing, until increasing aerodynamic forces led to loss of control, failure of the wing and disintegration of the orbiter".

 

No Reply is at all necessary !!

 

: P.S. -- Me-Thinks you dont have a firm grasp on basic facts and so you cannot afford such wild guessing!!

 

 

 

So Dana,

What's your earth plan and focus starting NOW up until blast off in no cryptic terms?  

 

 

 

 

 


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Was taught never to trust anyone I didnt know(good luck w/ that)


As a direct result of the accident. For the next several months, an extensive investigation of the accident ensued involving a nationwide team of experts from NASA, industry, and academia, spanning dozens of technical disciplines. The Columbia Accident Investigation Board (CAIB), a group of experts assembled to conduct an investigation independent of NASA,concluded in August, 2003 that the most likely cause of the loss of Columbia and its crew was a breach in the left wing leading edge Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (RCC) thermal protection system initiated by the impact of thermal insulating foam that had separated from the orbiters external fuel tank 81 seconds into the STS-107 mission's launch. During reentry, this breach allowed superheated air to penetrate behind the leading edge and erode the aluminum structure of left wing, which ultimately led to the breakup of the orbiter. The findings of the CAIB were supported by ballistic impact tests, which simulated the physics of External Tank Foam strike on the RCC wing leading edge material. These tests ranged from fundamental material characterization tests to full-scale Orbiter Wing Leading Edge tests. Following the accident investigation, NASA spent the next 18 months focused on returning the shuttle safely to flight. In order to fully evaluate all potential impact threats from the many debris sources on the Space Shuttle during ascent, NASA instituted a NEW priority to observing potential debris round and about the orbiter(s).

From my mouth I say, Nice try to change the subject!! Sorry for any inconvenience in not talking about myself, K?

As long as everyone wants to think I'm a little girl, might as well take advantage of it.
Everything has its' appointed time and season, under heaven. ANYONE of the household of Faith will say as much.

3 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:

2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather them
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

_____


Dont impose so much on my good nature !!


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Was taught never to trust anyone I didnt know(good luck w/that)

Nu 3429 ............................................................................................................................................................ Apr 1st

RE :: DP (Double Post)


DP (Double Post)

:
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p.s. -- A cliff like precipice you stand on right now; you ask someone else, K?
From my mouth I say, Nice try to change the subject!! I am so sorry for any inconvenience in my 'not' talking about myself, that it may cause you Badge holder.

____


Dont impose so much on my good nature !!


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Foz in a Bubble . .

If you'd venture from this little rabbit hutch or tomb with a view. People were just commenting on the 1st with a reply about meaning in one's life

danatemporary wrote:
 

digitalbeachbum wrote:
 

Brian37 wrote:
  The following is their Idea of calling us fools. You know I do get jokes between friends, but this wasn't even funny. I laugh when my believing friends at work joked about it, but this article was a really pathetic attempt at April Fools humor.  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2013/04/happy-national-atheist-day/ 
They are literally idiots. Why do you bother reading their tripe.    
  

Patheos wrote:
Quote from article . . Go ahead and hug an atheist today. They need it. They live lives of sad desperation caught in a meaningless universe and protest that theyre happy because they see things “as they really are” and are free to enjoy life as it is, and then disappear into the dust and relieve an already overcrowded world of yet another sentient meatbag.
  

Quote:

Go ahead and hug an atheist today. They need it. They live lives of sad desperation caught in a meaningless universe and protest that they’re happy because they see things “as they really are” and are free to enjoy life as it is, and then disappear into the dust and relieve an already overcrowded world of yet another sentient meatbag.

Iwbiek replies

iwbiek wrote:

i'm not happy because i see things "as they really are."  in fact, most days it f-ing sucks. but no, I'm generally happy because i'm lucky enough to have all those things that make for a happy life: good health, clean running water, enough food, temperate climate, a warm house, loving wife and son, generally nice in-laws, loving parents, good friendships, fulfilling job, leisure time to pursue hobbies and interests, democratic society, internet connection, etc., etc.

i'm well aware all these things could disappear, and assuredly most of them will over time.  then i probably won't be as happy as i am now, but i think i'll still find life mostly pleasant, because above all i'm lucky enough to have a good perspective, he writes


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NOW IS THE TIME

danatemporary wrote:

 

As a direct result of the accident. For the next several months, an extensive investigation of the accident ensued involving a nationwide team of experts from NASA, industry, and academia, spanning dozens of technical disciplines. The Columbia Accident Investigation Board (CAIB), a group of experts assembled to conduct an investigation independent of NASA,concluded in August, 2003 that the most likely cause of the loss of Columbia and its crew was a breach in the left wing leading edge Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (RCC) thermal protection system initiated by the impact of thermal insulating foam that had separated from the orbiters external fuel tank 81 seconds into the STS-107 mission's launch. During reentry, this breach allowed superheated air to penetrate behind the leading edge and erode the aluminum structure of left wing, which ultimately led to the breakup of the orbiter. The findings of the CAIB were supported by ballistic impact tests, which simulated the physics of External Tank Foam strike on the RCC wing leading edge material. These tests ranged from fundamental material characterization tests to full-scale Orbiter Wing Leading Edge tests. Following the accident investigation, NASA spent the next 18 months focused on returning the shuttle safely to flight. In order to fully evaluate all potential impact threats from the many debris sources on the Space Shuttle during ascent, NASA instituted a NEW priority to observing potential debris round and about the orbiter(s). From my mouth I say, Nice try to change the subject!! Sorry for any inconvenience in not talking about myself, K? As long as everyone wants to think I'm a little girl, might as well take advantage of it. Everything has its' appointed time and season, under heaven. ANYONE of the household of Faith will say as much. 3 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: 2 a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; 3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather them a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 a time to tear, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace. _____

 

Dont impose so much on my good nature !!

 

 

DT,

I agree timing is critical though you didn't say what we should be about in the "now".  As applied to the shuttle (timing I mean) I understand it was too cold for the O rings yet our government didn't want to announce to the world that we couldn't blast off below a certain temperature.  

So I'm behind in the polls huh?  Like Micaiah I want to make it clear:  The atheists have no plan, no house that will stand. Yet they encourage each other to keep the lie alive and ignore the obvious glory of God which surrounds us and don't look into the fact that Jesus is LORD, died for our sins, was buried and rose from the dead and now lives in His people.  It's time to think differently.  

 

 

 


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Hell, MayBe ????

Re :: Hell, MayBe ????

    This is one of those too ironic for terms, in my case. Have you ever heard the expression: To be careful what you wish for ? Is it safe to want to step out with Ms. Jinx ? Funny thing, I have resently be comparing actual testimonies of people who are trying to convince the world they have actually seen Hell.

 These accounts are easy to review for two separate parties, by the way. They often were asking all people to turn from their wrong behaviour and turn to God (in them). True story (meaning I am not lying I have actually been checking into this believe you me). At least you can say one of the gang was making inquires you shouldnt expect. You might not believe this but some have reportedly even seen Jesus on their many travels. You have mentioned you feel speaking about a negative "after-life" is not an approach to take on an Atheist board (losely you've said as much). Well, Look at who is all grown up. Normally, You should be almost rewarded on some level. Dana likes talking about Hell and has actually been a life long facsination. This might present a problem, not so much for me, have you. As I was saying, In these actual testimonials are indicating either a very positive or a very negative "after-life". If Jesus is the one to go to avoid "the wrath to come". Is that wrath the judgment of the individual or a Noah's Flood like event Jesus is to save from?. Or perhaps both ? Forgive me for pushing the issue but however you like or dislike. Hell is a key part of the talk. Fore it is about actual words from the accounts of these particular ones. Anyone who is willing to sit down and talk about why there are these unavoidable inconsistencies. Will have the bad luck of uncovering things that will frankly hurt and not help any hopes of some Evangelization. Again, It is hard to under-estimate the harm this discussion will have on any hopes in Evangelization efforts on the board. It's your funeral. Problem . . Many of the details do not match from person to person. Wider problem of some incredible historical relevance cannot be under-estimated. People who have these experiences do often times become very religious. As in whatever the religion of the land has historically adopt(ed), or providing in terms of briefly reared in. 'Whatever' Faith and religious tradition is extant (No turn to Jesus outside of Western culture, for instance). It is hard to under-estimate, how details about these particular testimonies actually hurt and not help the whole thrust towards looking to Jesus (period). In times past exactly similar persons, often taking on vows, but in many Faiths. This causes a problem for evangelization I would think. No? I mean, No ? I will tell you, because people may not allow you to know I have been the main contributer to the departure of at least three people who came to the board. How? By helping them get what they wanted. Once someone gave them permission to do what they wanted. They came to the harsh reality it was futile and actually left. So, If you want to play (really dialog) with Ms. Jinx ? Then, Huh ? Even with a person of the heart to have the lasting beauty of a gentle and tranquil spirit, in the sight of God. Yet, Hurting the relevance of the Jesus in the talk. That wouldnt be a prob or present a difficulty ? Details. Let alone we are talking Hell, in these. From what I know of you, you arent game!

 

p.s. -- Know, Not kidding. But, it is a place of inquiry that it is absolutely essential you are able to study and easily pick out glaring errors. From the shuttle remarks I dont know if you are easily able to do this or not ?

 (Edit:: And  Speaking Of errors; four typing errors,  so sorry for the edit)

 


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Tell us how god

 

Fonzie wrote:

It's a very dangerous GPS to be led by the weather of feelings (my emph) rather than the Word of God as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and seen through the eyes of faith. 

 

speaks to you, Fonzie. When you read the bible to you feel closer to him, do you feel a warm sense of belonging, do you feel loved by god? What is love? How do you identify it happening to you?

What other way is there to know god but by one's personal feelings? There's precious little external conversation going on, even you must agree. 

And what is the 'illumination of the holy spirit' if not an upwelling of feelings? A stirring of emotion? A strong sense (feeling) in your heart (limbic system) that what you are reading in the bible is 'true'?

I have to say this line "seen through the eyes of faith" is rather silly. What it really means is that you read biblical assertions with eager preparedness to believe them for the sake of the continuity of your dogma. 

Anyway. Hope you are well and happy, Fonzie. Glad to see your thread hasn't jumped the shark.

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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SEEING THE UNSEEN

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

It's a very dangerous GPS to be led by the weather of feelings (my emph) rather than the Word of God as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and seen through the eyes of faith. 

 

speaks to you, Fonzie. When you read the bible to you feel closer to him, do you feel a warm sense of belonging, do you feel loved by god? What is love? How do you identify it happening to you?

What other way is there to know god but by one's personal feelings? There's precious little external conversation going on, even you must agree. 

And what is the 'illumination of the holy spirit' if not an upwelling of feelings? A stirring of emotion? A strong sense (feeling) in your heart (limbic system) that what you are reading in the bible is 'true'?

I have to say this line "seen through the eyes of faith" is rather silly. What it really means is that you read biblical assertions with eager preparedness to believe them for the sake of the continuity of your dogma. 

Anyway. Hope you are well and happy, Fonzie. Glad to see your thread hasn't jumped the shark.

 

 

 

AE,

I assume you are not physically blind though I don't know that, but I think something I've mentioned before illustrates the answer to your question.  In the 1920's Francis Burdette built a three story house in Wayne NJ, with gambrel roof with dormers and windows built into the roof.  He had become blind about 15 years before through an accident with a street car or other vehicle.  This is recorded in a book called "The House Built in the Dark" - and, the house is still there.  I have pictures of it a friend took inside and out within 2 months of today.  

You would maybe think at first that Francis Burdette didn't see the house he built - but he did.  He just saw it in a different way than those of us blessed with the gift of sight.  There were things he had to struggle through and learn in this new way of seeing.  There were people who tried to discourage him - in fact he had a battle with himself and his own despair.  But he persevered.  

You could say in this new way of "seeing" he became like a child, making what might be seen by others as "foolish mistakes", falls, fumbles.  Yet he accomplished it - climbing the ladder, putting up the rafters, nailing the shingles.  

When he started showing success some thought he was cheating - that he really could see.  Some came and "tested" him.  

 

The Word of God says It is "Living and Active, sharper than any two-edged sword, dividing bone and marrow, able to discern the purposes of the heart" - so that is a tool I see i have.  I see it in a different way than your physical sight.  I see it in a different way than your eye of imagination or sense of feeling.  Jesus said to Peter:  "flesh and blood have not revealed this to you Peter" - I mention this to say that the LIGHT I see God and His Word in are from a fire lit by God, the light of the Holy Spirit.  You can have it and you can see it but you have to get it from God - and I think you might have to seek it a little. But I know that all the Bible is true because I am intimately acquainted with The Author.  As a gift in Christ He comes and dwells in the heart of His people.  

So I am working on a house I see through the eyes of faith - different than your physical eyes.  I see the plan, the Bible, but I see more than the surface words.  I see the Living Christ in it.  And I am working on my spiritual house along with the LORD, the Master Craftsman.  It's a happy thing.  There's always something to do on a house, so there's "work security".  "In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to want".  So in order to accomplish anything (profit) I have to push against resistance.  

God doesn't speak to me verbally, but all the things in His Word are always true.  "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet".  

As you can see there are obvious barriers to entering this kind of project.  There are a lot of discouragements and discouragers.  There is the humiliation of entering the whole venture.  Imagine a proud person "becoming a child" to enter the family of God. Imagine the humiliation of God becoming a man.  He hasn't ask anything of us He hasn't done Himself.  

There is the fumbling of learning everything new to you - but there is the courage producing presence of God with you working with you on your spiritual house.  And there is progress.  The plan is not changing, the Rock under it is not moving.  Progress is satisfying.  It was satisfying for Francis Burdette to overcome the obstacles and finish what he started.  

I'm very well and happy.  When you find what you're looking for in life it's very satisfying and fulfilling.  The reason that it works for me is because my faith is not in something that isn't real.  It's real.

 


P.S.

I challenge you to find any inconsistency in my posts - including "What Faith You" and "Palace Life" (which was deleted) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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(P0E)

(P0E)


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?? NDE (?).?

Question::

Actual Near-Death Experiences---are really glimpses of an 'afterlife', or more dream-like & hallucinatory ?

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

P.s. --Inquires of the Fire and Brimstone or around 17.5% to 20% of all NDE

.

Looked up a verse; And caught the Verse of the Day in Romans: Rom 8:8 Indeed, Those who are in the flesh and controlled by their sinful nature cannot please Yahweh.


Fonzie
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SATED AND STILL HUNGRY

danatemporary wrote:

Question::

 

Actual Near-Death Experiences---are really glimpses of an 'afterlife', or more dream-like & hallucinatory ?

.

 

 

 

DT,

Dreams today are the manure of the mind IMO.  You can yes poke around in manure and find things out - what the bull's eating, etc., what smells like Gehenna maybe, but not supernatural in the heaven/hell sense for guidance (me anyway).

God communicated in many ways in the past:  dreams, prophets,  voice out a whirlwind, out of the sky, etc., but today He has spoken to us by His Son.      

There's the Bible, light years above anything - but there are cats to herd.  He who is sated loathes honey - but to him who is hungry everything bitter is sweet.  There are several lifetimes of interesting things that go nowhere.  

Your verse of the day from Romans is the negative side - the next verse is the plus side: "But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you." 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

P.s. --Inquires of the Fire and Brimstone or around 17.5% to 20% of all NDE

.

Looked up a verse; And caught the Verse of the Day in Romans: Rom 8:8 Indeed, Those who are in the flesh and controlled by their sinful nature cannot please Yahweh.


danatemporary
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Wasnt exactly helpful, K?

Now that wasn't exactly helpful . . .


Atheistextremist
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This is a pleasant homily

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

It's a very dangerous GPS to be led by the weather of feelings (my emph) rather than the Word of God as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and seen through the eyes of faith. 

 

speaks to you, Fonzie. When you read the bible to you feel closer to him, do you feel a warm sense of belonging, do you feel loved by god? What is love? How do you identify it happening to you?

What other way is there to know god but by one's personal feelings? There's precious little external conversation going on, even you must agree. 

And what is the 'illumination of the holy spirit' if not an upwelling of feelings? A stirring of emotion? A strong sense (feeling) in your heart (limbic system) that what you are reading in the bible is 'true'?

I have to say this line "seen through the eyes of faith" is rather silly. What it really means is that you read biblical assertions with eager preparedness to believe them for the sake of the continuity of your dogma. 

Anyway. Hope you are well and happy, Fonzie. Glad to see your thread hasn't jumped the shark.

 

 

 

AE,

I assume you are not physically blind though I don't know that, but I think something I've mentioned before illustrates the answer to your question.  In the 1920's Francis Burdette built a three story house in Wayne NJ, with gambrel roof with dormers and windows built into the roof.  He had become blind about 15 years before through an accident with a street car or other vehicle.  This is recorded in a book called "The House Built in the Dark" - and, the house is still there.  I have pictures of it a friend took inside and out within 2 months of today.  

You would maybe think at first that Francis Burdette didn't see the house he built - but he did.  He just saw it in a different way than those of us blessed with the gift of sight.  There were things he had to struggle through and learn in this new way of seeing.  There were people who tried to discourage him - in fact he had a battle with himself and his own despair.  But he persevered.  

You could say in this new way of "seeing" he became like a child, making what might be seen by others as "foolish mistakes", falls, fumbles.  Yet he accomplished it - climbing the ladder, putting up the rafters, nailing the shingles.  

When he started showing success some thought he was cheating - that he really could see.  Some came and "tested" him.  

 

The Word of God says It is "Living and Active, sharper than any two-edged sword, dividing bone and marrow, able to discern the purposes of the heart" - so that is a tool I see i have.  I see it in a different way than your physical sight.  I see it in a different way than your eye of imagination or sense of feeling.  Jesus said to Peter:  "flesh and blood have not revealed this to you Peter" - I mention this to say that the LIGHT I see God and His Word in are from a fire lit by God, the light of the Holy Spirit.  You can have it and you can see it but you have to get it from God - and I think you might have to seek it a little. But I know that all the Bible is true because I am intimately acquainted with The Author.  As a gift in Christ He comes and dwells in the heart of His people.  

So I am working on a house I see through the eyes of faith - different than your physical eyes.  I see the plan, the Bible, but I see more than the surface words.  I see the Living Christ in it.  And I am working on my spiritual house along with the LORD, the Master Craftsman.  It's a happy thing.  There's always something to do on a house, so there's "work security".  "In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to want".  So in order to accomplish anything (profit) I have to push against resistance.  

God doesn't speak to me verbally, but all the things in His Word are always true.  "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet".  

As you can see there are obvious barriers to entering this kind of project.  There are a lot of discouragements and discouragers.  There is the humiliation of entering the whole venture.  Imagine a proud person "becoming a child" to enter the family of God. Imagine the humiliation of God becoming a man.  He hasn't ask anything of us He hasn't done Himself.  

There is the fumbling of learning everything new to you - but there is the courage producing presence of God with you working with you on your spiritual house.  And there is progress.  The plan is not changing, the Rock under it is not moving.  Progress is satisfying.  It was satisfying for Francis Burdette to overcome the obstacles and finish what he started.  

I'm very well and happy.  When you find what you're looking for in life it's very satisfying and fulfilling.  The reason that it works for me is because my faith is not in something that isn't real.  It's real.

 


P.S.

I challenge you to find any inconsistency in my posts - including "What Faith You" and "Palace Life" (which was deleted) 

 

 

Fonzie but the chap was building a physical house he could feel regardless of his loss of sight. It had mass in time and space.

In comparison, god has no coherent definition, let alone testable explanation. What is a god, what are its characteristics, its habits, its method of interaction with the material world? What you are saying here is that the bible's assertions about god are true because it says they are true are in the bible. And you display bias. "God does not speak to me personally but everything in his word is true", you write. How do you know this to be so without being god? You cannot confirm that the swarming assertions of the bible are true. 

I don't want to get into a great discussion about it but I assume you are not an evolutionist. And I assume you might argue that there is a lack of evidence for evolution. There are missing fossils, there are doubts over Samarium 147 dating, there are major questions about the ignition of life - at what point it was that chemistry became biology. And what proof would you need? I assume it would not be assertions in a book written by a believer in evolution unsupported by serious data. You would want indubitable empirical evidence. And if the evolutionist argued that if you rejected his hypothesis you would be burned alive then you would, with complete justification, dismiss him as a nut job. 

This business of the proud person becoming a child to accept jesus - this is an ad hominem fallacy. It's irrational. We are not children, to accept aged assertions without proof, under threat of eternal immolation. We are adults and we are entitled to cogent proofs. You see, Fonzie, preaching is not proof of anything but your own belief and up until now, preaching is all you have done. Nothing has been proved.  

Given this, perhaps we could examine the keystone of christianity, Fonzie. Prove to me that the fall, as outlined in the book of Genesis, was an actual historical event. 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Re Fit only to be cast out (unless negative is a part as well):

HAVING DIED, FINDING YOURSELF IN HELL (NDE) !!!

Fonzie wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

Question::

 

Actual Near-Death Experiences---are really glimpses of an 'afterlife', or hallucinatory ?

.



. .

Managed to fail to understand the very question. First, With no sarcasm at all intended. There was a serious point to Nu 3434. And nobody made you the arbiter of the Faith. It a bad show, to be as arrogant as you are coming off to the board. Look, Stop it ((Negative is a part of life . .)) Verse of the day,. The whole need for a Saviour (within Christendom's traditions) should rest on such 'negatives'. I presume you are not a closet Unitarian Universalist, or one in the making. As many of the actually died and went to Hell NDE people paradoxically ended up becoming, I found out. You or I would have had a different response.

If this ever gets at you. If necessary best to take a break and come back when you arent as upset, to take a fresh look when this happens. It is a form of insensative communication, at times, I feel I must remind you at this point,. Again, People are all different on this board, K?

To clarify more . . .

HAVING DIED, FINDING YOURSELF IN HELL (NDE) !!! What are we talking about? :: Brain activity had ceased (died on the table, in hospital) How did you get dreams from the question, I asked ? This is a life-after-death (destinational) matter; not how the divine made things known through various means, according to the holy Bible (e.g. prophets, dreams, angels, visions, Job¬ian, etc.). "Actual Near Death Experience(s)" was the wording, bub!

Quote:
. .but not supernatural in the heaven/hell sense..

This isn't smart. I presumed, I simply presumed (on my part) it is known as "clinical death". I felt no need to introduce the subject, because ANYONE ELSE can understand what is meant by Near Death experience of a type found in a Hell experience(s), as NDE claimants retell, with brain activity being an issue of any CLAIM,. And They are experiencing, What? Is it their alleged actual afterlife experience, having actually literally dropped dead for a time ? Which needs to be stressed, to you! So, No longer alive but were Dead, so not asleep!! NDE, Awaking in a "negative" afterlife (for a time), according to each. Is this authentic, signs of a life-after-death ?

I may be selling you short or forgetting you simply might not know. I've generally presumed what constitutes a true Near-Death case is common knowledge, as to what happens metabolically in an actual Near Death experience,. Commonly known, Blood flow is completely interrupted and ceases. At least from everything I've consulted, each of these were no dreams. Again, No Dreams. From Clinicians, staff, parapsychologists, and so on each maintains; due to clinical death had occurred in a hospital setting. Where are you getting 'dreams' from anyway ?!? Look at the question, once more, please. It's requiring your attention. In everyone, who died on the table, clinical death, note neuronal function had (at least for a time) certainly stopped, not allowing for a dream in the classic sense and no sleep or REM sleep either, (w/ the cessation of neuronal function)! Something I didn't know was there is a marked spike in brain activity just prior to this cessation. Being a dNDE, the Fire and Brimstone is relevant, none of this dancing around the issue, you obviously aren't being cleaver; you unintentionally sort of zeroed in on only half of the question, by so doing it was less about these various experiences taking place then. I did not mention "vision(s)", K? It was a non-answer. What has any of that to do with Near-Death experiences ?!? To stress, While having died on the table, each found themselves in an alleged Hell, they each go on to detail the experience (from there).

When you have the chance, it is all greatly appreciated, as always.

The site's own RRS link : http://asktheatheist.rationalresponders.com/question/what_about_ndes



p.s. See :: Pic ! Hoped to get a chrisitian answer. Oh, If people lack basic knowledge about a topic, follow the standard procedure (routinely done) K? YouTube is loaded with them to VIEW, if you arent into looking up Scientific Journals.


Fonzie
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I FEEL GOOD BAD UP DOWN SAD GLAD MAD TEEDELEDEE!

Atheistextremist wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

It's a very dangerous GPS to be led by the weather of feelings (my emph) rather than the Word of God as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and seen through the eyes of faith. 

 

speaks to you, Fonzie. When you read the bible to you feel closer to him, do you feel a warm sense of belonging, do you feel loved by god? What is love? How do you identify it happening to you?

What other way is there to know god but by one's personal feelings? There's precious little external conversation going on, even you must agree. 

And what is the 'illumination of the holy spirit' if not an upwelling of feelings? A stirring of emotion? A strong sense (feeling) in your heart (limbic system) that what you are reading in the bible is 'true'?

I have to say this line "seen through the eyes of faith" is rather silly. What it really means is that you read biblical assertions with eager preparedness to believe them for the sake of the continuity of your dogma. 

Anyway. Hope you are well and happy, Fonzie. Glad to see your thread hasn't jumped the shark.

 

 

 

AE,

I assume you are not physically blind though I don't know that, but I think something I've mentioned before illustrates the answer to your question.  In the 1920's Francis Burdette built a three story house in Wayne NJ, with gambrel roof with dormers and windows built into the roof.  He had become blind about 15 years before through an accident with a street car or other vehicle.  This is recorded in a book called "The House Built in the Dark" - and, the house is still there.  I have pictures of it a friend took inside and out within 2 months of today.  

You would maybe think at first that Francis Burdette didn't see the house he built - but he did.  He just saw it in a different way than those of us blessed with the gift of sight.  There were things he had to struggle through and learn in this new way of seeing.  There were people who tried to discourage him - in fact he had a battle with himself and his own despair.  But he persevered.  

You could say in this new way of "seeing" he became like a child, making what might be seen by others as "foolish mistakes", falls, fumbles.  Yet he accomplished it - climbing the ladder, putting up the rafters, nailing the shingles.  

When he started showing success some thought he was cheating - that he really could see.  Some came and "tested" him.  

 

The Word of God says It is "Living and Active, sharper than any two-edged sword, dividing bone and marrow, able to discern the purposes of the heart" - so that is a tool I see i have.  I see it in a different way than your physical sight.  I see it in a different way than your eye of imagination or sense of feeling.  Jesus said to Peter:  "flesh and blood have not revealed this to you Peter" - I mention this to say that the LIGHT I see God and His Word in are from a fire lit by God, the light of the Holy Spirit.  You can have it and you can see it but you have to get it from God - and I think you might have to seek it a little. But I know that all the Bible is true because I am intimately acquainted with The Author.  As a gift in Christ He comes and dwells in the heart of His people.  

So I am working on a house I see through the eyes of faith - different than your physical eyes.  I see the plan, the Bible, but I see more than the surface words.  I see the Living Christ in it.  And I am working on my spiritual house along with the LORD, the Master Craftsman.  It's a happy thing.  There's always something to do on a house, so there's "work security".  "In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to want".  So in order to accomplish anything (profit) I have to push against resistance.  

God doesn't speak to me verbally, but all the things in His Word are always true.  "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet".  

As you can see there are obvious barriers to entering this kind of project.  There are a lot of discouragements and discouragers.  There is the humiliation of entering the whole venture.  Imagine a proud person "becoming a child" to enter the family of God. Imagine the humiliation of God becoming a man.  He hasn't ask anything of us He hasn't done Himself.  

There is the fumbling of learning everything new to you - but there is the courage producing presence of God with you working with you on your spiritual house.  And there is progress.  The plan is not changing, the Rock under it is not moving.  Progress is satisfying.  It was satisfying for Francis Burdette to overcome the obstacles and finish what he started.  

I'm very well and happy.  When you find what you're looking for in life it's very satisfying and fulfilling.  The reason that it works for me is because my faith is not in something that isn't real.  It's real.

 


P.S.

I challenge you to find any inconsistency in my posts - including "What Faith You" and "Palace Life" (which was deleted) 

 

 

Fonzie but the chap was building a physical house he could feel regardless of his loss of sight. It had mass in time and space.

In comparison, god has no coherent definition, let alone testable explanation. What is a god, what are its characteristics, its habits, its method of interaction with the material world? What you are saying here is that the bible's assertions about god are true because it says they are true are in the bible. And you display bias. "God does not speak to me personally but everything in his word is true", you write. How do you know this to be so without being god? You cannot confirm that the swarming assertions of the bible are true. 

I don't want to get into a great discussion about it but I assume you are not an evolutionist. And I assume you might argue that there is a lack of evidence for evolution. There are missing fossils, there are doubts over Samarium 147 dating, there are major questions about the ignition of life - at what point it was that chemistry became biology. And what proof would you need? I assume it would not be assertions in a book written by a believer in evolution unsupported by serious data. You would want indubitable empirical evidence. And if the evolutionist argued that if you rejected his hypothesis you would be burned alive then you would, with complete justification, dismiss him as a nut job. 

This business of the proud person becoming a child to accept jesus - this is an ad hominem fallacy. It's irrational. We are not children, to accept aged assertions without proof, under threat of eternal immolation. We are adults and we are entitled to cogent proofs. You see, Fonzie, preaching is not proof of anything but your own belief and up until now, preaching is all you have done. Nothing has been proved.  

Given this, perhaps we could examine the keystone of christianity, Fonzie. Prove to me that the fall, as outlined in the book of Genesis, was an actual historical event. 

 

 

 

 

 

AE,

Sure Francis Burdette could touch what he was building but the comparison to faith is that he was seeing the house in a different way.  It's not a perfect comparison as you point out and I know you don't accept the desired conclusion.  

The difference between feelings and things spiritually discerned is lost on you because you don't have the Spirit of God living in you revealing these thing to you.  The reason you don't have the Spirit of God is because you don't know Who Jesus Is and haven't been born again by the water and the Spirit.  

The reason you don't know Who Jesus is - is because the Spirit of God hasn't revealed Him to you.  This is not something you will arrive at with your demands of "give me proof", "prove you are the Son of God", "come down off the cross and we'll believe", "what sign can you show us to prove you are the Messiah"?  

I think God is reserving all the glory on this for Himself and until you get off the throne of what you think you know and view as wisdom you won't find it.  It's foolishness to you.  It's the power of God to me.

If you could find it with your own wisdom then the glory would go to your wisdom.  God has made the wisdom of man folly and it pleases God to save His bride (the church) in Christ (the body of Christ - Christ it's Head) through Christ crucified.  

The foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men.  God chooses what is foolish in the world to shame the wise and what is weak in the world to shame the strong.  This is to silence the boasting of men in the presence of God.  

Thus you are blind to the difference between feelings and things spiritually discerned because you have not received the Spirit of God but rather are enamored with the wisdom of the world.  It would be humorous justice if it weren't so serious.  You're whistling in the graveyard and oblivious to the wisdom of God in Christ.  

It's not what I want or God wants but simply how it is.  The first letter to the Corinthians the first and second address these things.  If it's foolishness to you then you can read about your own situation there.  

 

 

 

 

 

 


danatemporary
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http://ndestories.org/vicki-noratuk/

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

It's a very dangerous GPS to be led by the weather of feelings (my emph) rather than the Word of God as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and seen through the eyes of faith. 

 

speaks to you, Fonzie. When you read the bible to you feel closer to him,?

I have to say this line "seen through the eyes of faith" is rather silly. What it really means is that you read biblical assertions with eager preparedness to believe them for the sake of the continuity of your dogma. 

Anyway. Hope you are well and happy, Fonzie. Glad to see your thread hasn't jumped the shark.

 

 

 

AE,

I assume you are not physically blind though I don't know that,   The reason that it works for me is because my faith is not in something that isn't real.  It's real.

 P.S.

I challenge you to find any inconsistency in my posts - including "What Faith You" and "Palace Life" (which was deleted) 

 

 

Fonzie but the chap was building a physical house he could feel regardless of his loss of sight. It had mass in time and space.

In comparison, god has no coherent definition, let alone testable explanation. What is a god, .. dismiss him as a nut job. 

This business of the proud person becoming a child to accept jesus - this is an ad hominem fallacy.

 

 

 

AE,

Sure Francis Burdette could touch what he was building but the comparison to faith is that he was seeing the house in a different way.  It's not a perfect comparison as you point out

 

 


 DT here,

  Nu 3442

  You might want to take a moment to check out this 'blind woman's" experience too.  Though she has been totally  blind almost from  birth, too much oxygen caused irreversible damage to Vickie's optic nerve.  Well, you'll want to follow the link. She is part of the heart of this controversy (Nu 3442)  and has a very odd way of seeing,.

TheBlindWoman wrote:
"They [with the ones she briefly  visited] seemed to be expressing the same amazement I was experiencing. Inside I felt warmth throughout my being.  As I neared the end of the tunnel, the light became brilliant. Just before I reached the end I could hear people singing. It was like all the hymns you’ve ever heard sung at once, and blending together harmoniously! I noticed there were no hymns about Jesus dying, or the sad songs of blood and pain. These were songs of praise and jubilation. As I listened I could pick out an individual piece. Somehow their combined singing was beautiful, not horrible! It was like what could be made in order there could not be made in order here. The jubilation filled me.  My exit from the tube can best be described as rolling out onto grass in a balmy, bright summerland scene of trees, where there were thousands of people singing, laughing and talking. Some played what sounded like string instruments. Flowers were everywhere in different varieties, and I still recall a near jasmine scent.

Here is the Off site link, (maybe even give her a ring w/ an invite to this site);  The blind believer's Off site URL/Link:

 http://ndestories.org/vicki-noratuk/


Fonzie
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CURIOUS THINGZ

danatemporary wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

It's a very dangerous GPS to be led by the weather of feelings (my emph) rather than the Word of God as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and seen through the eyes of faith. 

 

speaks to you, Fonzie. When you read the bible to you feel closer to him,?

I have to say this line "seen through the eyes of faith" is rather silly. What it really means is that you read biblical assertions with eager preparedness to believe them for the sake of the continuity of your dogma. 

Anyway. Hope you are well and happy, Fonzie. Glad to see your thread hasn't jumped the shark.

 

 

 

AE,

I assume you are not physically blind though I don't know that,   The reason that it works for me is because my faith is not in something that isn't real.  It's real.

 P.S.

I challenge you to find any inconsistency in my posts - including "What Faith You" and "Palace Life" (which was deleted) 

 

 

Fonzie but the chap was building a physical house he could feel regardless of his loss of sight. It had mass in time and space.

In comparison, god has no coherent definition, let alone testable explanation. What is a god, .. dismiss him as a nut job. 

This business of the proud person becoming a child to accept jesus - this is an ad hominem fallacy.

 

 

 

AE,

Sure Francis Burdette could touch what he was building but the comparison to faith is that he was seeing the house in a different way.  It's not a perfect comparison as you point out

 

 


 DT here,

  Nu 3442

  You might want to take a moment to check out this 'blind woman's" experience too.  Though she has been totally  blind almost from  birth, too much oxygen caused irreversible damage to Vickie's optic nerve.  Well, you'll want to follow the link. She is part of the heart of this controversy (Nu 3442)  and has a very odd way of seeing,.

TheBlindWoman wrote:
"They [with the ones she briefly  visited] seemed to be expressing the same amazement I was experiencing. Inside I felt warmth throughout my being.  As I neared the end of the tunnel, the light became brilliant. Just before I reached the end I could hear people singing. It was like all the hymns you’ve ever heard sung at once, and blending together harmoniously! I noticed there were no hymns about Jesus dying, or the sad songs of blood and pain. These were songs of praise and jubilation. As I listened I could pick out an individual piece. Somehow their combined singing was beautiful, not horrible! It was like what could be made in order there could not be made in order here. The jubilation filled me.  My exit from the tube can best be described as rolling out onto grass in a balmy, bright summerland scene of trees, where there were thousands of people singing, laughing and talking. Some played what sounded like string instruments. Flowers were everywhere in different varieties, and I still recall a near jasmine scent.

Here is the Off site link, (maybe even give her a ring w/ an invite to this site);  The blind believer's Off site URL/Link:

 http://ndestories.org/vicki-noratuk/

 

 

DanaT, 

 

I read your summary of this experience and unfortunate mistake of science.  I admit it is an interesting account; however I don't view things like this the same way I view the Bible.  I put this in the category of "more books and experiences than you have time for".  I'm sticking to instructions from ONE SHEPHERD.  Focus.  

I would address more things you bring up if I understood them.  I don't understand a lot of letter abbreviations, context and expressions you've used in the past.  I'm low tech in a high tech world.

I would say again though there are enough interesting things to entertain a lifetime of curiosity and from my view accomplish nothing but entertainment.  I believe people can be looking for things in all the wrong places not finding with that design.  I don't aim to wander in that wilderness.  I've found what I'm looking for and He's far more intriguing than any curiosities. 

 

 

 

 

 


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Jean Chauvin wrote:Creepy

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Creepy Guy,

Are you still retarded after my educating you?

Again, you made a positive claim and therefore in logic since we negate your blind faith assertion you then logically carry the burden to prove your naked unjustified premise that you are god. Also, since we negate that the Bible is a pack of lies you also~snip

You first jean. I'll prove I'm god after you prove your god exists. You made your claim first, so you get to prove your claim first. I'll wait patiently. Smiling

As for the falsity of the bible, it has been more than adequately proven hundreds of times over dozens of topics on this website. I defer to them.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Accepting reluctant acknowledgement ; Foz's signet ring :

re : Accepting reluctant acknowledgement, Foz's signet ring.. Realms UNKNOWN, (no time soon) :

Fonzie wrote:
I read your summary of this experience and unfortunate mistake of science. I admit it is an interesting account; however I don't view things like this the same way I view the Bible.  I put this in the category of "more books and experiences than you have time for".  I'm sticking to instructions from ONE SHEPHERD.


DanaTEMPorary wrote:
How gradifying to note you're suggesting there is nothing paranormal about NDE that neuroscience cannot address then . . .



3445 -- No-one said this christian gal claims to be anything at all; other than a church-attending mother and house-wife, no occultic books, lectures or 'reading'; is she a female soothsayer or OT Prophetess ?



Mrs Vicki Umipeg, a forty-five year old blind woman, now mother of three, was featured in a much larger study just completed concerning near-death experiences of the blind. Touted in this sensationalistic, self-published, book entitled: Mindsight. Vicki was born blind, her optic nerve having been completely destroyed at birth because of an excess of oxygen. In a controversial NDE story on NDEs of the congenitally blind. The book maintain the blind NDE can unfold in precisely the same way as do those of sighted persons who experience these NDEs. At no time, was she able to see colors during the Vicki NDE. But, She has no vocabular to describe colors. Within her sensational account of her NDE. Vicki's NDE was absolutely indistinguishable from those with intact visual systems, according to the self-published book's authors. The following is an excerpt from Dr. Ring's latest book reprinted by permission about Vicki's Near Death Experience.

".. Vicki told Dr. Ring she found herself floating above her body in the emergency room of a hospital following an automobile accident. She was aware of being up near the ceiling watching a male doctor and a female nurse working on her body, which she viewed from her elevated position. Vicki has a clear recollection of how she came to the realization that this was her own body below her. The following is her experience. Vicki says, I knew it was me ... I was pretty thin then. I was quite tall and thin at that point. And I recognized at first that it was a body, but I didn't even know that it was mine initially. Then I perceived that I was up on the ceiling, and I thought, "Well, that's kind of weird. What am I doing up here?" She reports, I thought, "Well, this must be me. Am I dead? ..." Vicki: I just briefly saw this body, and ... I knew that it was mine because I wasn't in mine.
In addition, she was able to note certain further identifying features indicating that the body she was observing was certainly her own. I think I was wearing the plain gold band on my right ring finger and my father's wedding ring next to it. But my wedding ring I definitely saw ... That was the one I noticed the most because it's most unusual. Has orange blossoms on the corners of it..There is something extremely remarkable and provocative about Vicki's recollection of these visual impressions, as a subsequent comment of hers implied, as she was blind.
"This was," she (Vicki) said, "the only time I could ever relate to seeing and to what light was, because I experienced it." Vicki struggles to describe light. She then told them that following her out-of-body episode, which was very fast and fleeting, she found herself going up through the ceilings of the hospital until she was above the roof of the building itself, during which time she had a brief panoramic view of her surroundings. She felt very exhilarated during this ascension and enjoyed tremendously the freedom of movement she was experiencing. She also began to hear sublimely beautiful and exquisitely harmonious music akin to the sound of wind chimes. With scarcely a noticeable transition, she then discovered she had been sucked head first into a tube and felt that she was being pulled up into it. The enclosure itself was dark, Vicki said, yet she was aware that she was moving toward light. As she reached the opening of the tube, the music that she had heard earlier seemed to be transformed into hymns and she then "rolled out" to find herself lying on grass. Hearing the angelic Hymns. She was surrounded by trees and flowers and a vast number of people, she recounts. She was in a place of tremendous light, and the light, Vicki said, was something you could feel as well as see. Even people she saw were bright, with its vibrating intensity. Every body there was as if they were almost made of light. And I was made of light. What the light conveyed was love. There was love everywhere. In the midst of this rapture, Vicki is suddenly overcome with a sense of total knowledge" She trails off. Picking up what Christian talk says about Vicki's NDE: "Many people who experience a NDEs become more spiritual and better persons, because their experience refutes the materialistic idea that we're our body alone. So, they realized that there may be a deeper reality, beyond the physical world we're familiar with. This implies a new perspective includes reconsidering positions about This is evidence of the power of our personal experience and emotions (specially extreme experiences like a NDE) in the formation of our worldview .. Worldviews are not chosen with independence of our deep beliefs and emotions; we tend to choose a worldview that FITS our more deep values and emotions'"

Whereas in the Hellish Near Death Experiences, independent researcher (added): The immediate impact that the distressing experience has on the experiencer, can be acute in dNDE! Whether it's a vision of the Divine, or an encounter with pure evil, the near death experience can have a profound influence on the remaining life of the experiencer, he writes. Just as blissful experiences, like the Blind-woman's, leave the experiencer filled with endless, selfless love and faith, the distressing experience, known as dNDE, can leave the experiencer filled with hopelessness, severe depression, and fear their future. In a way, it must be the worst kind of depression. The hellish experiencer is forced into a position that leaves them not wanting to live, yet absolutely terrified of dying. Suicide is definitely not an option" In the Skeptic portal, others write :Robert McLuhan has an excellent review of Nancy Evans-Bush's recent book, Dancing Past the Dark over at Paranormalia. Fact: this is virtually the only book ever written by a reasonably credible researcher (without a religious agenda) that focuses exclusively on distressing and hellish near death experiences" Back to the indepent researcher w/ dNDE, he wrote: "I dare anyone to find another book on dNDE's with even a whiff of serous intellectual integrity..". The first recent popular attempt at acknowledging the Dark Side of NDE's was written by Maurice Rawlings, who had his heyday back in the 90's with a few best sellers. On a mission to save souls, Rawlings put a spin on dNDE's that had a crushing affect on intelligent spiritual discussion for years. He used many since-discredited anecdotes, testimonies and "facts" invented out of whole cloth to sell a decidedly conservative brand of Christianity have wasted our collect time. He picks up: "And then there's Howard Storm, whom I like, (Dana is liking Howard, but ONLY very recently). Now he's been on TBN network about six times, and is a Lutheran NDE. Statistically, as far as I can tell, dNDE's are a minority, and "hellish" NDE's are a distinct minority of the overall number of near-death experiences. However, some studies indicate that the level might be as high as 20%'" Whereas, I already indicated about 17.5 to as high as 1 in 5 cases myself. The problem is that dNDE's are woefully under reported. One guy writes: "After all, who wants to tell the world that they died and went to Hell?, ..".
"Back to Vicki's experience :: 'In the midst of this rapture, Vicki is suddenly overcome with a sense of total knowledge. Vicki continues, "I had a feeling like I knew everything ... and like everything made sense. I just knew that this was where ... this place was where I would find the answers to all the questions about life, and about the planets, and about God, and about everything ... It's like the place was the knowing .. As these revelations are unfolding, Vicki notices that now next to her is a figure whose radiance is far greater than the illumination of any of the persons she has so far encountered. With His greater radiance and illumination; immediately, she recognizes this being to be Jesus himself, in her experience. The Son greets Vicki tenderly, while she conveys her excitement to him about her newfound omniscience & her joy at being there w/Him..Telepathically, the Son communicates to Vicki in the NDE.
(Words of Christ in red):"Isn't it wonderful? Everything is beautiful here, and it fits together. And you'll find that. But you can't stay here now. It's not your time to be here yet and you have to go back." With that Vicki reacts to the words of the Son, understandably enough, with extreme disappointment and protests vehemently ..Vicki tells Jesus: "No, I want to stay with You." But the being reassures her that she will come back, but for now, she "has to go back and learn and teach more about loving and forgiving." *Still resistant, however, Vicki then learns that she also needs to go back to have her children. With that, Vicki, who was childless but who "desperately wanted" to have children (and who has since given birth to three) becomes almost eager to return and finally consents. However, before Vicki can leave, the being says to her, in these exact words, "But first, watch this." And what Vicki then sees is "everything from my birth" in a complete panoramic review of her life, and as she watches, the being gently comments to help her understand the significance of her actions and their repercussions. The last thing Vicki remembers, once the life review has been completed, are the words, "You have to leave now." Then she experiences "a sickening thud" like a roller-coaster going backwards, only to find herself back in her body" It stops.

Lethargy can be easily exacerbated, you know. Clearly, Worried or working off of fear, the culprit by your replies. She not even a new convert.
** With NDE cases, nobody is about to off themselves and/or take one's own life, nor are any anxious to die any-time soon. Die soon enough.
__________________________________________

Materialism Win/Win


How gradifying to note youre suggesting there is nothing paranormal about NDE that neuroscience cannot address then . . .


Atheistextremist
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Yes, I see

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

It's a very dangerous GPS to be led by the weather of feelings (my emph) rather than the Word of God as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and seen through the eyes of faith. 

 

speaks to you, Fonzie. When you read the bible to you feel closer to him, do you feel a warm sense of belonging, do you feel loved by god? What is love? How do you identify it happening to you?

What other way is there to know god but by one's personal feelings? There's precious little external conversation going on, even you must agree. 

And what is the 'illumination of the holy spirit' if not an upwelling of feelings? A stirring of emotion? A strong sense (feeling) in your heart (limbic system) that what you are reading in the bible is 'true'?

I have to say this line "seen through the eyes of faith" is rather silly. What it really means is that you read biblical assertions with eager preparedness to believe them for the sake of the continuity of your dogma. 

Anyway. Hope you are well and happy, Fonzie. Glad to see your thread hasn't jumped the shark.

 

 

 

AE,

I assume you are not physically blind though I don't know that, but I think something I've mentioned before illustrates the answer to your question.  In the 1920's Francis Burdette built a three story house in Wayne NJ, with gambrel roof with dormers and windows built into the roof.  He had become blind about 15 years before through an accident with a street car or other vehicle.  This is recorded in a book called "The House Built in the Dark" - and, the house is still there.  I have pictures of it a friend took inside and out within 2 months of today.  

You would maybe think at first that Francis Burdette didn't see the house he built - but he did.  He just saw it in a different way than those of us blessed with the gift of sight.  There were things he had to struggle through and learn in this new way of seeing.  There were people who tried to discourage him - in fact he had a battle with himself and his own despair.  But he persevered.  

You could say in this new way of "seeing" he became like a child, making what might be seen by others as "foolish mistakes", falls, fumbles.  Yet he accomplished it - climbing the ladder, putting up the rafters, nailing the shingles.  

When he started showing success some thought he was cheating - that he really could see.  Some came and "tested" him.  

 

The Word of God says It is "Living and Active, sharper than any two-edged sword, dividing bone and marrow, able to discern the purposes of the heart" - so that is a tool I see i have.  I see it in a different way than your physical sight.  I see it in a different way than your eye of imagination or sense of feeling.  Jesus said to Peter:  "flesh and blood have not revealed this to you Peter" - I mention this to say that the LIGHT I see God and His Word in are from a fire lit by God, the light of the Holy Spirit.  You can have it and you can see it but you have to get it from God - and I think you might have to seek it a little. But I know that all the Bible is true because I am intimately acquainted with The Author.  As a gift in Christ He comes and dwells in the heart of His people.  

So I am working on a house I see through the eyes of faith - different than your physical eyes.  I see the plan, the Bible, but I see more than the surface words.  I see the Living Christ in it.  And I am working on my spiritual house along with the LORD, the Master Craftsman.  It's a happy thing.  There's always something to do on a house, so there's "work security".  "In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to want".  So in order to accomplish anything (profit) I have to push against resistance.  

God doesn't speak to me verbally, but all the things in His Word are always true.  "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet".  

As you can see there are obvious barriers to entering this kind of project.  There are a lot of discouragements and discouragers.  There is the humiliation of entering the whole venture.  Imagine a proud person "becoming a child" to enter the family of God. Imagine the humiliation of God becoming a man.  He hasn't ask anything of us He hasn't done Himself.  

There is the fumbling of learning everything new to you - but there is the courage producing presence of God with you working with you on your spiritual house.  And there is progress.  The plan is not changing, the Rock under it is not moving.  Progress is satisfying.  It was satisfying for Francis Burdette to overcome the obstacles and finish what he started.  

I'm very well and happy.  When you find what you're looking for in life it's very satisfying and fulfilling.  The reason that it works for me is because my faith is not in something that isn't real.  It's real.

 


P.S.

I challenge you to find any inconsistency in my posts - including "What Faith You" and "Palace Life" (which was deleted) 

 

 

Fonzie but the chap was building a physical house he could feel regardless of his loss of sight. It had mass in time and space.

In comparison, god has no coherent definition, let alone testable explanation. What is a god, what are its characteristics, its habits, its method of interaction with the material world? What you are saying here is that the bible's assertions about god are true because it says they are true are in the bible. And you display bias. "God does not speak to me personally but everything in his word is true", you write. How do you know this to be so without being god? You cannot confirm that the swarming assertions of the bible are true. 

I don't want to get into a great discussion about it but I assume you are not an evolutionist. And I assume you might argue that there is a lack of evidence for evolution. There are missing fossils, there are doubts over Samarium 147 dating, there are major questions about the ignition of life - at what point it was that chemistry became biology. And what proof would you need? I assume it would not be assertions in a book written by a believer in evolution unsupported by serious data. You would want indubitable empirical evidence. And if the evolutionist argued that if you rejected his hypothesis you would be burned alive then you would, with complete justification, dismiss him as a nut job. 

This business of the proud person becoming a child to accept jesus - this is an ad hominem fallacy. It's irrational. We are not children, to accept aged assertions without proof, under threat of eternal immolation. We are adults and we are entitled to cogent proofs. You see, Fonzie, preaching is not proof of anything but your own belief and up until now, preaching is all you have done. Nothing has been proved.  

Given this, perhaps we could examine the keystone of christianity, Fonzie. Prove to me that the fall, as outlined in the book of Genesis, was an actual historical event. 

 

 

 

 

 

AE,

Sure Francis Burdette could touch what he was building but the comparison to faith is that he was seeing the house in a different way.  It's not a perfect comparison as you point out and I know you don't accept the desired conclusion.  

The difference between feelings and things spiritually discerned is lost on you because you don't have the Spirit of God living in you revealing these thing to you.  The reason you don't have the Spirit of God is because you don't know Who Jesus Is and haven't been born again by the water and the Spirit.  

The reason you don't know Who Jesus is - is because the Spirit of God hasn't revealed Him to you.  This is not something you will arrive at with your demands of "give me proof", "prove you are the Son of God", "come down off the cross and we'll believe", "what sign can you show us to prove you are the Messiah"?  

I think God is reserving all the glory on this for Himself and until you get off the throne of what you think you know and view as wisdom you won't find it.  It's foolishness to you.  It's the power of God to me.

If you could find it with your own wisdom then the glory would go to your wisdom.  God has made the wisdom of man folly and it pleases God to save His bride (the church) in Christ (the body of Christ - Christ it's Head) through Christ crucified.  

The foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men.  God chooses what is foolish in the world to shame the wise and what is weak in the world to shame the strong.  This is to silence the boasting of men in the presence of God.  

Thus you are blind to the difference between feelings and things spiritually discerned because you have not received the Spirit of God but rather are enamored with the wisdom of the world.  It would be humorous justice if it weren't so serious.  You're whistling in the graveyard and oblivious to the wisdom of God in Christ.  

It's not what I want or God wants but simply how it is.  The first letter to the Corinthians the first and second address these things.  If it's foolishness to you then you can read about your own situation there.  

 

 

Fonzie. I don't believe because I don't believe. And so I will be burned alive eternally in a fallasea of fire. Such a compelling argument. But let's stay with absolutes for a change. 

Prove to me The Fall of humankind outlined in the book of genesis was an actual historical event. 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Fonzie
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SLOW LEARNERS

Atheistextremist wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

It's a very dangerous GPS to be led by the weather of feelings (my emph) rather than the Word of God as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and seen through the eyes of faith. 

 

speaks to you, Fonzie. When you read the bible to you feel closer to him, do you feel a warm sense of belonging, do you feel loved by god? What is love? How do you identify it happening to you?

What other way is there to know god but by one's personal feelings? There's precious little external conversation going on, even you must agree. 

And what is the 'illumination of the holy spirit' if not an upwelling of feelings? A stirring of emotion? A strong sense (feeling) in your heart (limbic system) that what you are reading in the bible is 'true'?

I have to say this line "seen through the eyes of faith" is rather silly. What it really means is that you read biblical assertions with eager preparedness to believe them for the sake of the continuity of your dogma. 

Anyway. Hope you are well and happy, Fonzie. Glad to see your thread hasn't jumped the shark.

 

 

 

AE,

I assume you are not physically blind though I don't know that, but I think something I've mentioned before illustrates the answer to your question.  In the 1920's Francis Burdette built a three story house in Wayne NJ, with gambrel roof with dormers and windows built into the roof.  He had become blind about 15 years before through an accident with a street car or other vehicle.  This is recorded in a book called "The House Built in the Dark" - and, the house is still there.  I have pictures of it a friend took inside and out within 2 months of today.  

You would maybe think at first that Francis Burdette didn't see the house he built - but he did.  He just saw it in a different way than those of us blessed with the gift of sight.  There were things he had to struggle through and learn in this new way of seeing.  There were people who tried to discourage him - in fact he had a battle with himself and his own despair.  But he persevered.  

You could say in this new way of "seeing" he became like a child, making what might be seen by others as "foolish mistakes", falls, fumbles.  Yet he accomplished it - climbing the ladder, putting up the rafters, nailing the shingles.  

When he started showing success some thought he was cheating - that he really could see.  Some came and "tested" him.  

 

The Word of God says It is "Living and Active, sharper than any two-edged sword, dividing bone and marrow, able to discern the purposes of the heart" - so that is a tool I see i have.  I see it in a different way than your physical sight.  I see it in a different way than your eye of imagination or sense of feeling.  Jesus said to Peter:  "flesh and blood have not revealed this to you Peter" - I mention this to say that the LIGHT I see God and His Word in are from a fire lit by God, the light of the Holy Spirit.  You can have it and you can see it but you have to get it from God - and I think you might have to seek it a little. But I know that all the Bible is true because I am intimately acquainted with The Author.  As a gift in Christ He comes and dwells in the heart of His people.  

So I am working on a house I see through the eyes of faith - different than your physical eyes.  I see the plan, the Bible, but I see more than the surface words.  I see the Living Christ in it.  And I am working on my spiritual house along with the LORD, the Master Craftsman.  It's a happy thing.  There's always something to do on a house, so there's "work security".  "In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to want".  So in order to accomplish anything (profit) I have to push against resistance.  

God doesn't speak to me verbally, but all the things in His Word are always true.  "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet".  

As you can see there are obvious barriers to entering this kind of project.  There are a lot of discouragements and discouragers.  There is the humiliation of entering the whole venture.  Imagine a proud person "becoming a child" to enter the family of God. Imagine the humiliation of God becoming a man.  He hasn't ask anything of us He hasn't done Himself.  

There is the fumbling of learning everything new to you - but there is the courage producing presence of God with you working with you on your spiritual house.  And there is progress.  The plan is not changing, the Rock under it is not moving.  Progress is satisfying.  It was satisfying for Francis Burdette to overcome the obstacles and finish what he started.  

I'm very well and happy.  When you find what you're looking for in life it's very satisfying and fulfilling.  The reason that it works for me is because my faith is not in something that isn't real.  It's real.

 


P.S.

I challenge you to find any inconsistency in my posts - including "What Faith You" and "Palace Life" (which was deleted) 

 

 

Fonzie but the chap was building a physical house he could feel regardless of his loss of sight. It had mass in time and space.

In comparison, god has no coherent definition, let alone testable explanation. What is a god, what are its characteristics, its habits, its method of interaction with the material world? What you are saying here is that the bible's assertions about god are true because it says they are true are in the bible. And you display bias. "God does not speak to me personally but everything in his word is true", you write. How do you know this to be so without being god? You cannot confirm that the swarming assertions of the bible are true. 

I don't want to get into a great discussion about it but I assume you are not an evolutionist. And I assume you might argue that there is a lack of evidence for evolution. There are missing fossils, there are doubts over Samarium 147 dating, there are major questions about the ignition of life - at what point it was that chemistry became biology. And what proof would you need? I assume it would not be assertions in a book written by a believer in evolution unsupported by serious data. You would want indubitable empirical evidence. And if the evolutionist argued that if you rejected his hypothesis you would be burned alive then you would, with complete justification, dismiss him as a nut job. 

This business of the proud person becoming a child to accept jesus - this is an ad hominem fallacy. It's irrational. We are not children, to accept aged assertions without proof, under threat of eternal immolation. We are adults and we are entitled to cogent proofs. You see, Fonzie, preaching is not proof of anything but your own belief and up until now, preaching is all you have done. Nothing has been proved.  

Given this, perhaps we could examine the keystone of christianity, Fonzie. Prove to me that the fall, as outlined in the book of Genesis, was an actual historical event. 

 

 

 

 

 

AE,

Sure Francis Burdette could touch what he was building but the comparison to faith is that he was seeing the house in a different way.  It's not a perfect comparison as you point out and I know you don't accept the desired conclusion.  

The difference between feelings and things spiritually discerned is lost on you because you don't have the Spirit of God living in you revealing these thing to you.  The reason you don't have the Spirit of God is because you don't know Who Jesus Is and haven't been born again by the water and the Spirit.  

The reason you don't know Who Jesus is - is because the Spirit of God hasn't revealed Him to you.  This is not something you will arrive at with your demands of "give me proof", "prove you are the Son of God", "come down off the cross and we'll believe", "what sign can you show us to prove you are the Messiah"?  

I think God is reserving all the glory on this for Himself and until you get off the throne of what you think you know and view as wisdom you won't find it.  It's foolishness to you.  It's the power of God to me.

If you could find it with your own wisdom then the glory would go to your wisdom.  God has made the wisdom of man folly and it pleases God to save His bride (the church) in Christ (the body of Christ - Christ it's Head) through Christ crucified.  

The foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men.  God chooses what is foolish in the world to shame the wise and what is weak in the world to shame the strong.  This is to silence the boasting of men in the presence of God.  

Thus you are blind to the difference between feelings and things spiritually discerned because you have not received the Spirit of God but rather are enamored with the wisdom of the world.  It would be humorous justice if it weren't so serious.  You're whistling in the graveyard and oblivious to the wisdom of God in Christ.  

It's not what I want or God wants but simply how it is.  The first letter to the Corinthians the first and second address these things.  If it's foolishness to you then you can read about your own situation there.  

 

 

Fonzie. I don't believe because I don't believe. And so I will be burned alive eternally in a fallasea of fire. Such a compelling argument. But let's stay with absolutes for a change. 

Prove to me The Fall of humankind outlined in the book of genesis was an actual historical event. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AE,

The gift of sight is I think the most noble of the senses - it is compared to faith.  We walk by faith not by sight.  Sight is quick. How quick can you see and how far?  The stars, the moon.  

The eye of faith can discern the present fallen state personally and all around us.  It can see beyond death through the revealed word of God.  It can travel back to creation and see life breathed into man.  

But if faith is void                                 darkness is where light should be.

 

RELATED STORY:  

Ahaziah like his father Ahab was trying to get around what God had said would happen (through His prophet).  He sent a captain and 50 soldiers to take Elijah by force over a message from God Elijah had delivered.  The captain told Elijah to come down.  Elijah said if I am a man of God let fire come down and devour the captain and his 50.  It did.  

You would think at this point faith would be produced to the extent Elijah would be safe from the government.  But faith wasn't produced in Ahaziah by this.  

Elijah parts the Jordan by striking it with his cloak.  He is taken up into heaven in a fiery chariot and a whirlwind.  Elisha looks and sees a speck in the sky falling to the ground - Elijah's cloak.  He takes it and strikes the Jordan saying, "where is the God of Elijah?"  The Jordan parts and he walks across on dry land.  The fellow prophets want to go looking for Elijah but Elisha tells them there's no reason to.  They don't believe him even after seeing him miraculously walk through the Jordan.  Faith wasn't produced.   

You ask for proof and envision proof producing faith.  But what is crooked cannot be made straight and what is lacking cannot be numbered.  

There is good seed for faith - but it has to have a place conducive to growth.  

 

 


Atheistextremist
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Ummmm

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

It's a very dangerous GPS to be led by the weather of feelings (my emph) rather than the Word of God as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and seen through the eyes of faith. 

 

speaks to you, Fonzie. When you read the bible to you feel closer to him, do you feel a warm sense of belonging, do you feel loved by god? What is love? How do you identify it happening to you?

What other way is there to know god but by one's personal feelings? There's precious little external conversation going on, even you must agree. 

And what is the 'illumination of the holy spirit' if not an upwelling of feelings? A stirring of emotion? A strong sense (feeling) in your heart (limbic system) that what you are reading in the bible is 'true'?

I have to say this line "seen through the eyes of faith" is rather silly. What it really means is that you read biblical assertions with eager preparedness to believe them for the sake of the continuity of your dogma. 

Anyway. Hope you are well and happy, Fonzie. Glad to see your thread hasn't jumped the shark.

 

 

 

AE,

I assume you are not physically blind though I don't know that, but I think something I've mentioned before illustrates the answer to your question.  In the 1920's Francis Burdette built a three story house in Wayne NJ, with gambrel roof with dormers and windows built into the roof.  He had become blind about 15 years before through an accident with a street car or other vehicle.  This is recorded in a book called "The House Built in the Dark" - and, the house is still there.  I have pictures of it a friend took inside and out within 2 months of today.  

You would maybe think at first that Francis Burdette didn't see the house he built - but he did.  He just saw it in a different way than those of us blessed with the gift of sight.  There were things he had to struggle through and learn in this new way of seeing.  There were people who tried to discourage him - in fact he had a battle with himself and his own despair.  But he persevered.  

You could say in this new way of "seeing" he became like a child, making what might be seen by others as "foolish mistakes", falls, fumbles.  Yet he accomplished it - climbing the ladder, putting up the rafters, nailing the shingles.  

When he started showing success some thought he was cheating - that he really could see.  Some came and "tested" him.  

 

The Word of God says It is "Living and Active, sharper than any two-edged sword, dividing bone and marrow, able to discern the purposes of the heart" - so that is a tool I see i have.  I see it in a different way than your physical sight.  I see it in a different way than your eye of imagination or sense of feeling.  Jesus said to Peter:  "flesh and blood have not revealed this to you Peter" - I mention this to say that the LIGHT I see God and His Word in are from a fire lit by God, the light of the Holy Spirit.  You can have it and you can see it but you have to get it from God - and I think you might have to seek it a little. But I know that all the Bible is true because I am intimately acquainted with The Author.  As a gift in Christ He comes and dwells in the heart of His people.  

So I am working on a house I see through the eyes of faith - different than your physical eyes.  I see the plan, the Bible, but I see more than the surface words.  I see the Living Christ in it.  And I am working on my spiritual house along with the LORD, the Master Craftsman.  It's a happy thing.  There's always something to do on a house, so there's "work security".  "In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to want".  So in order to accomplish anything (profit) I have to push against resistance.  

God doesn't speak to me verbally, but all the things in His Word are always true.  "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet".  

As you can see there are obvious barriers to entering this kind of project.  There are a lot of discouragements and discouragers.  There is the humiliation of entering the whole venture.  Imagine a proud person "becoming a child" to enter the family of God. Imagine the humiliation of God becoming a man.  He hasn't ask anything of us He hasn't done Himself.  

There is the fumbling of learning everything new to you - but there is the courage producing presence of God with you working with you on your spiritual house.  And there is progress.  The plan is not changing, the Rock under it is not moving.  Progress is satisfying.  It was satisfying for Francis Burdette to overcome the obstacles and finish what he started.  

I'm very well and happy.  When you find what you're looking for in life it's very satisfying and fulfilling.  The reason that it works for me is because my faith is not in something that isn't real.  It's real.

 


P.S.

I challenge you to find any inconsistency in my posts - including "What Faith You" and "Palace Life" (which was deleted) 

 

 

Fonzie but the chap was building a physical house he could feel regardless of his loss of sight. It had mass in time and space.

In comparison, god has no coherent definition, let alone testable explanation. What is a god, what are its characteristics, its habits, its method of interaction with the material world? What you are saying here is that the bible's assertions about god are true because it says they are true are in the bible. And you display bias. "God does not speak to me personally but everything in his word is true", you write. How do you know this to be so without being god? You cannot confirm that the swarming assertions of the bible are true. 

I don't want to get into a great discussion about it but I assume you are not an evolutionist. And I assume you might argue that there is a lack of evidence for evolution. There are missing fossils, there are doubts over Samarium 147 dating, there are major questions about the ignition of life - at what point it was that chemistry became biology. And what proof would you need? I assume it would not be assertions in a book written by a believer in evolution unsupported by serious data. You would want indubitable empirical evidence. And if the evolutionist argued that if you rejected his hypothesis you would be burned alive then you would, with complete justification, dismiss him as a nut job. 

This business of the proud person becoming a child to accept jesus - this is an ad hominem fallacy. It's irrational. We are not children, to accept aged assertions without proof, under threat of eternal immolation. We are adults and we are entitled to cogent proofs. You see, Fonzie, preaching is not proof of anything but your own belief and up until now, preaching is all you have done. Nothing has been proved.  

Given this, perhaps we could examine the keystone of christianity, Fonzie. Prove to me that the fall, as outlined in the book of Genesis, was an actual historical event. 

 

 

 

 

 

AE,

Sure Francis Burdette could touch what he was building but the comparison to faith is that he was seeing the house in a different way.  It's not a perfect comparison as you point out and I know you don't accept the desired conclusion.  

The difference between feelings and things spiritually discerned is lost on you because you don't have the Spirit of God living in you revealing these thing to you.  The reason you don't have the Spirit of God is because you don't know Who Jesus Is and haven't been born again by the water and the Spirit.  

The reason you don't know Who Jesus is - is because the Spirit of God hasn't revealed Him to you.  This is not something you will arrive at with your demands of "give me proof", "prove you are the Son of God", "come down off the cross and we'll believe", "what sign can you show us to prove you are the Messiah"?  

I think God is reserving all the glory on this for Himself and until you get off the throne of what you think you know and view as wisdom you won't find it.  It's foolishness to you.  It's the power of God to me.

If you could find it with your own wisdom then the glory would go to your wisdom.  God has made the wisdom of man folly and it pleases God to save His bride (the church) in Christ (the body of Christ - Christ it's Head) through Christ crucified.  

The foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men.  God chooses what is foolish in the world to shame the wise and what is weak in the world to shame the strong.  This is to silence the boasting of men in the presence of God.  

Thus you are blind to the difference between feelings and things spiritually discerned because you have not received the Spirit of God but rather are enamored with the wisdom of the world.  It would be humorous justice if it weren't so serious.  You're whistling in the graveyard and oblivious to the wisdom of God in Christ.  

It's not what I want or God wants but simply how it is.  The first letter to the Corinthians the first and second address these things.  If it's foolishness to you then you can read about your own situation there.  

 

 

Fonzie. I don't believe because I don't believe. And so I will be burned alive eternally in a fallasea of fire. Such a compelling argument. But let's stay with absolutes for a change. 

Prove to me The Fall of humankind outlined in the book of genesis was an actual historical event. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AE,

The gift of sight is I think the most noble of the senses - it is compared to faith.  We walk by faith not by sight.  Sight is quick. How quick can you see and how far?  The stars, the moon.  

The eye of faith can discern the present fallen state personally and all around us.  It can see beyond death through the revealed word of God.  It can travel back to creation and see life breathed into man.  

But if faith is void                                 darkness is where light should be.

 

RELATED STORY:  

Ahaziah like his father Ahab was trying to get around what God had said would happen (through His prophet).  He sent a captain and 50 soldiers to take Elijah by force over a message from God Elijah had delivered.  The captain told Elijah to come down.  Elijah said if I am a man of God let fire come down and devour the captain and his 50.  It did.  

You would think at this point faith would be produced to the extent Elijah would be safe from the government.  But faith wasn't produced in Ahaziah by this.  

Elijah parts the Jordan by striking it with his cloak.  He is taken up into heaven in a fiery chariot and a whirlwind.  Elisha looks and sees a speck in the sky falling to the ground - Elijah's cloak.  He takes it and strikes the Jordan saying, "where is the God of Elijah?"  The Jordan parts and he walks across on dry land.  The fellow prophets want to go looking for Elijah but Elisha tells them there's no reason to.  They don't believe him even after seeing him miraculously walk through the Jordan.  Faith wasn't produced.   

You ask for proof and envision proof producing faith.  But what is crooked cannot be made straight and what is lacking cannot be numbered.  

There is good seed for faith - but it has to have a place conducive to growth.  

 

 

 

Prove to me The Fall of humankind outlined in the book of genesis was an actual historical event.

Use evidence of a standard you would need if evolution was to be proved to you. 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck