It works for me!

Fonzie
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It works for me!

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

 


jcgadfly
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zarathustra wrote:It was

zarathustra wrote:

It was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's output

 

McFly,

Of course it's true that god exists because god exists.  
Because otherwise, he wouldn't exist.

But he does.

Zara, we've established that the lying troll is a lying troll and isn't going away because the PTB like him.

May as well help the beach bum.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Fonzie
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WHERE IS THERE IS?

danatemporary wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

  As for bringing the fruits of my delight, I cannot be expected to fix your traffic problem nor do that. To do so, I'd have to cut-paste major portions of threads (plural) to here. And, Apparently I am having browser trouble is the feed back I got from a long-standing Moderator. Plus, If your Thread is about something, I dont think it would be fair for me to do so. Then you're at the mercy of my editing not to mention all my interests by such an act. That doesnt mean that is an excuse not to do something for you if asked  however.

 

 A thread that exists outside your bubble:
Old and New Testament Hell

{GodsUseForAMosquito}

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:


 Biblical reports of hell vary considerable between old and new testament.

 Hell is mentioned in the bible 31 times in the old testament, and always in terms of 'sheol' the hebrew word meaning hades, or simply grave. It is not a place of suffering, just a place where the dead go. That's all dead, whether you've been good or bad.

 Enter Jesus, and the new testament. Now there is a proper Hell with lakes of fire, burning sulphur, eternal torment. I mean seriously - what a bastard! I prefer the old testament version if I had to choose.

 Why would Jesus and God invent something so terrible as Hell as a punishment? If Christians are supposed to favour the New testament over the Old, because Jesus died for their sins, and not we live in grace, Why did he feel like belief in Jesus wasn't enough on its own, and have to add a massive spanking stick in the form of "and if you don't believe all this, you're now going to burn in hell for all eternity".

 Given that from the time of Jesus, through history, more people have not been Christian than have (including many millions who never even heard 'the word' of god before they died, so never stood a chance of salvation), god has basically decided to create a huge pit of suffering and fairly arbitrarily plunge people into it.
Seriously, do Christians actually consider this stuff?   

Jabberwocky wrote:


Christians typically aren't too big on details. For those who haven't heard the gospel, there is always some sort of explaining away of how someone can't be held responsible for something they had no control over (even though I don't believe there is anything in the bible offering up this exception..." I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." )

Pretty cut and dry if you ask me. Of course us atheists who have heard the gospels (with probably a higher completion rate of reading the bible than Christians...) ARE going to hell. We have heard and rejected the gospels.

As far as why god/Jesus would have done such a thing, the answer is simple. In the New Testament, the demeanor of god is much different than in the old. He's stopped ordering his followers directly to commit genocide, even stopped doing it himself. He's not killing people on the spot for pulling out any more, put a stop to flooding the world, stopped sending bears to maul large groups of children...he's really seemed to calm down. But without a heavenly psychiatrist, he's probably still the same vindictive bloodthirsty jerk he always was. He's just become a troll now. "Hey look. I'm nice now, no more world-wide floods.......juuuuuuuuuuuuust kidding, you were the wrong kind of Christian. Now let this guy torture you forever, I'm going to watch!"

 


danatemporary wrote:

Re:: A Point of comparison

OP wrote:
.. always in terms of 'sheol' the hebrew word meaning hades, or simply grave. It is not a place of suffering, just a place where the dead go That's all dead ..


In other ancient books and texts of the region. The topic of the underworld could be quite lengthy but I will only mention two things. The grave is mentioned as a place for departed souls become ghosts, residing down there. In many myths there are odd contradictions being more a projection than anything else, at times. If you are that almost undefinable ghostly spirit. Why would you need to eat? I wonder this ? And yet I cannot think of any of the many nations that surrounded Israel, that do not describe food of the underworld. Secondly, In Sumerian accounts the place of departed souls is a very miserable existence. Was Dust Their Food and Clay Their Bread? The land from which you never return from. It's cold, it's dark, it's dreary, it's dusty, a projection of a literal grave. Nevertheless, The plus side you meet up with lost loved ones who have gone on before you.
 
Brian wrote:


This is fun sport to attack if we were at a si fi convention arguing over Star Trek vs Star Wars. But the reality is that Jews and Christians, while they claim to be best buddies, are the si fi fans arguing over Captain Kirk vs "the force of Jesus". I am weary of jumping into their respective comic books. I think it is much more important to point out, even before you endulge them, that they both start, even before word one, postulate a non material super hero with magical super powers as their naked assertion.
I am aware that we do need skeptics that do that, we most cerainly do. Just a reminder to never forget, even if a new religion with a new god is started tommorow, with a new book, we'd have to battle that too.
When Mel Gibson had his drunken bigoted rant about Jews causing everything, of course he was wrong and bigoted. But Jews did exist prior to Christianity. I would simply point out that there was a religion Jews got their inspiration from prior as a result of the polytheism of the Caananites. So if Mel wanted to be correct about "who started it", I say that the Jews then and the Jews now are as much victims to credulity as Chrisitanity and Islam, as is anyone buying an invisible friend claim . .

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:


GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:
Biblical reports of hell vary considerable between old and new testament.

Seriously, do Christians actually consider this stuff?


 Nony wrote:  The OT served as a backstory for Judean rule over the conquered Galileans Jesus being a Galilean. We do not know what the Galilean religion was like before they were conquered and forced to convert. See Wars of the Jews, Josephus, for more details of the conquest and forced conversion.
So it may have simply been the NT is the Galilean view of things.
Further one of the differences between the infamous Sadduces and Pharisees is that one of them did NOT believe there was an afterlife. So simply finding it in the OT is not definitive.
Going back to Josephus again it is clear from his writings he did not consider the OT, aka Septuagint, to have any particular interest or importance or in any factual content for that matter. As he was a priest of that religion his apparent ignorance of its very existence is contrary to the modern view of those days. (He apparently knows of some similar stories but that is about all.)
As to what Christians think, atheists who appear in forums like this probablly know tens of times more about their religion than the average Christian.
 

danatemporary wrote:


 re:: Who's being thrown where ?

 First, Hope GodsUseForAMosquito to be seeing GodUseForAMosquito around.

AE wrote:


TWD39 wrote:


I rather be alive and fellowshiping in joy with my fellow believers than either being annililated or burning in hell. If you honestly think hell will be a party with other sinners then you are truly ignorant.  You won't have company there.   You are either going to be destroyed from existence or weeping and gnashing your teeth forever.    


  AE said, After reacting to TWD's banal and hateful post here I thought I'd get some input from an intellectual christian philologist with a degree in theology and a PHD in philosophy. I asked Brother David: Do you believe in hell? Is there proof of hell in the biblical texts? What motivation might there be for amplifying the oblique hell in Genesis into the Augustinian hell of the Roman Catholic Church? Why do some christians wallow in the idea of hell?
{AE brought a quote from BrotherDavid}
BrotherDavid wrote:
     Yes, look, the dogma of hell is a problem, to me; I mean with respect to its textual basis. In brief, these are the difficulties I see.
(i) The biblical language on the subject is often figurative, which means it is vague, eg. ‘the lake of fire which burns eternally’. What does that designate?
(ii) The language on the subject doesn’t all express the same idea, eg. Christ is reported as saying, ‘Beware God who has the power to destroy body and soul in hell’. So is simply passing out of existence a possible way to interpret the biblical writings on the question of some people’s eternal fate?
(iii) If you don’t read the biblical writings selectively, other considerations are pressing. Eg. God is supposed by these writings to be absolutely fair—but how fair would eternal suffering be for even the worst people, the Hitlers for example, given their terrible actions? Such a thing seems entirely unfair, to ordinary human intuition, does it not? Limited consequences which are reformatory are just in response to limited faults; infinite suffering for these faults is not. This mitigates against the traditional idea of hell.
(iv) The biblical writings hardly say anything on the subject of hell. If we wrote a book together on wine-making, it would be detailed, clear, with diagrams etc., so that our readers would understand us well. Should we not expect, given hell’s importance, that if it were so the whole thing would be described in the biblical writings carefully & in unmistakable detail?
(v) Traditionalists cannot read. If they expressed their interpretations tentatively, while honesty placing in the foreground their lack of hermeneutic skill, you could respect their views, even if you disagreed with them. But the only respect they deserve as readers is I think over what is simplest. Otherwise they deserve mockery. It seems to me that the whole of traditional Protestant reading is in essential ways false and even dishonest. Whatever traditional Protestantism asserts about any difficult problem of reading is to be doubted. Catholicism similarly.
(vi) A person who really believes in hell should be utterly transfixed at the indescribable horror of it. Should they not? Anyone who is not so transfixed does not believe there is a hell, in the traditional sense. So most—all?—traditionalists do not really believe; they only say they do. If they don’t believe, why should anyone else?
My own view is that what the biblical writings say is something like, ‘There is an after-life, and the rejection of God leads to unpleasant consequences there which it is much better to avoid; however, what really matters is behaving in this life with kindness and honesty, while respecting God, and asking the forgiveness of God & Christ for your errors, recognising that as with the acquisition of all forgiveness, you depend in that case upon the graciousness of the other to give it to you’. (Of course there is somewhat more, all as moderate, but this is a start.)
I think the biblical writings also say implicitly, by their unscientific and inexact linguistic form, ‘Each person who is interested has to work out for themselves as best they can what is going on, with respect to everything not communicated in the simplest sentences’. These views if they were widely embraced among Christians would involve the death of institutionalised interpretations, though.
The question, ‘What motives led to the dogma of hell?’ is fascinating. I don’t really know; but you can see with church leaders that they are often not motivated by a love for truth. Something else is in play...fear? self-importance? love for feeling as though they belong to something important? willingness to tyrannise over others? respect for old things merely because of the oldness? desire to keep their own lives within the pattern to which they are accustomed? stupidity? Several of these? All of them?
I think we will search without any success for a traditional Protestant theologian who accepts the old-fashioned position about hell, and who understands these things well, and takes them properly into account. How often are the considerations mentioned above ever raised intelligently and knowledgably, let alone dealt with adequately in the supposed demonstrations made of the traditional view? Yet we have little difficulty in finding teachers in our communions who despite this failing are quite happy to say that they know the truth. Scholar after scholar merely takes the traditional dogma to be obvious, and offers exposition that other than with respect to grammar and semantics is almost entirely rhetorical, ie. that in important ways bears no resemblance at all to proper language-analysis.
Every time one of our leaders confidently expresses their views on this subject, the scorching words of Nietzsche, who was a philologist by profession, enter the mind: ‘How little Christianity educates the sense of honesty and justice can easily be seen from the writings of its scholars; they advance their conjectures as blandly as dogmas…the Bible is pricked and pulled apart, and the people formally inculcated in the art of reading badly’.


Misc  and  UnRelated  :: Misc Stock Image which I cannot place
http://cojs.org/cojswiki/images/9/9b/First_Temple.jpg

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:


Vastet wrote:
"This is fun sport to attack if we were at a si fi convention arguing over Star Trek vs Star Wars. But the reality is that Jews and Christians, while they claim to be best buddies, are the si fi fans arguing over Captain Kirk vs "the force of Jesus"." Fan wars are boring as fuck...For real bragging rights JWC published one of my letters. And Cabel W. Johnson occassionally posts on the web.
I agree today'a fans have no real concept of science much less what we called hard science fiction of the Astouding/Analog variety of the Heinlein and dozens of real SF authors wrote. Today what is called SF comes by the inch/pound and multiple sequels because they are too damned incompetent to come up with rational ideas and explore them. But the fans love them.
 


Myself (Nony speaking), give me a 2D character and don't let him get in the way of the story. Before you ask, I do appreciate real science fantasy as long as magic has rules which are essential to the story and Lord of the Rings sucks because it is a story with arbitrary magic.
Taking it back to the god wars, yes it is fun because they mostly do not understand the terms they are using, rather repeating some crap they read or were told without ever thinking about what the words and terms mean. Pick a god, any god. Give me its rules. If any of them did in fact exist the rules could have been deduced from millenia of experimentation even if accidental variants later described as experiments. As with the Diodorus reading suggestion Christianity and Judaism is all dumbed down to the dumbest common denominator. See also the Einstein letter which says the same thing.
I can go back to my first posts here where I was BANNED for criticizing Judaism in the same terms as Christianity. I realize most old timers are FAKE jews  claiming to be atheists and their real target is Christians only. That was my first week's experience. And in fact that was discussion partly public which was against permitting such criticism, analytics, ridicule of Judaism. AND I played the game with a "strike the root" strategy which all regulars should remember.
And, yes, I have been posting for a very long time without regard to the automatic denigrations such as yours because I ridicule Judaism and jewish "people" without hesitation or remorse and often with relish because I have the field to myself.
So, my friend, I know the rules of the game. I have been in public debate on religion and politics since 1980, 32 years. Good lord willing and stroke don't rise I will soon be able to say half my life and it will mean something. Now I have no problem dealing with newbies since most everyone is relatively. Public debate is simply debate. Playing debating games in this format means you are likely to try to use something I pioneered if not invented.
All of that is simply to encourage honest, open discussion without any games whatsoever.
This has gotten too long. Try it this way. Any time you try to contrast Jews v Christians as positive v negative I will not let you get away with it as Jews v Hindus or Jews v Muslims or Jews v animists is no different. Jews are followers of an idiot religion and those who think there is a jewish "people" are closet idiot believers.


{Vastet Replies}

Vastet wrote:
Now if only you could cross the line into recognising the jews aren't special yourself, everyone will be a bit better off. Edit: I don't remember you ever being banned. Are you sure it was here you got banned?

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:
  .. Why would Jesus and God invent something so terrible as Hell as a punishment? If Christians are supposed to favour the New testament over the Old, because Jesus died for their sins, and not we live in grace, Why did he feel like belief in Jesus wasn't enough on its own, and have to add a massive spanking stick in the form of "and if you don't believe all this, you're now going to burn in hell for all eternity".
Given that from the time of Jesus, through history, more people have not been Christian than have (including many millions who never even heard 'the word' of god before they died, so never stood a chance of salvation), god has basically decided to create a huge pit of suffering and fairly arbitrarily plunge people into it.
Seriously, do Christians actually consider this stuff?   

Hell is for children 

 Warning Edit Addition :: Suppli. -- {digitalbeachbum wrote}
 


 

digitalbeachbum wrote:
  Your faith is your faith and your faith alone. Faith is a blind belief that a 'thing' is real but you have no proof that it is real nor can any one disprove it. If you have proof that your 'faith' is real, then it stops being faith and becomes a fact. You do not have faith because you keep trying to justify it by posting evidence to show to others that it exists. You are trying to gain acceptance by giving us personal opinions from you and others. When a person of faith debates their faith they are not actually debating their faith because in order to actually debate you must follow specific rules of debating. One of which requires you to be open to the fact that you could be wrong.  If you actually debate you must suspend your faith and therefore are a non-believer. I however have never found a person of faith who can actually suspend their faith. They either are faithful or they are not. Since you can not suspend your 'faith' for a debate it is no longer a debate and becomes a speech with a conclusion

 


Old Seer wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:
                Biblical reports of hell vary considerable between old and new testament.  Hell is mentioned in the bible 31 times in the old testament . .         

OT and NT  applications are the same. The Euro interpretation makes the difference in term. In the Hebrew language there is no such term as God. "God" is strictly a Euro attachment from their own ancient ideas. In Hebrew they followed "that which is". Today the Israelis do not have the same religion as in the OT.  OT hell is equal to dead. In actual and proper Christianity it is understood that their will be a resurrection. "Lake of fire" is equal to no chance of resurrection, and, it doesn't only have to do with death---The ways of the world after Armageddon are also thrown into the lake of fire---that's not people particularly. The entire interpretation of the book by the Euros is faulty and inaccurate.. Alpha Smurf regards Americans also as Euros.

 

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Now if only you could cross the line into recognising the jews aren't special yourself, everyone will be a bit better off. Edit: I don't remember you ever being banned. Are you sure it was here you got banned?

Absolutely correct. It was here. If there is a way to search on oldest posts they should be there commenting on it. As to special, no more special than Chrisitans and deserving of no less disdain than Christians. Of course as we say about the West Bank, were it nor for antisemitism that would be Apartheid.


RobbyPants wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:
Why would Jesus and God invent something so terrible as Hell as a punishment?

My guess would be it likely has to do with Zoroastrianism, a religion that was quite popular six centuries earlier. There are a lot of things in that religion that are noticeably absent in early Judaism and present later in the religion and in Christianity. These include a savior (born of a virgin, no less!), heaven, and hell.
GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:
Seriously, do Christians actually consider this stuff? It's crazy. 
Yes, they do. It was one of the things that totally killed omnibenevolence for me when I was still Christian. My wife (still Christian) is a huge Rob Bell fan, if for no other reason, so she can write off hell as a metaphor and get herself a bit closer to reconciling theodicy.

Re:: Old and New Testament Hell
Professor wrote:

  Christian teachers refer to the Bible as "progressive revelation." God revealed Himself to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Then He revealed more of His nature and His precepts to Moses, David, Isaiah, Ezra, etc. God's Word is perfect. The Bible all revolves around the incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the second person of the blessed Trinity, Who took on human form. In the Old Testament Christ had not yet been born of the virgin Mary nor completed His mission. Hence the sins of the elect had not been paid for. All were sent after death to the same place in one sense, awaiting Christ's payment for sin. Christ's sacrifice of Himself on the cross was accepted by God as payment for the sins of those whom God ordained from the foundation of the world to be justified. After Christ shed His blood, the Epistle of Peter declares that "He went to preach to the spirits in prison." Assumedly at that time the elect were separated from the reprobate. My interpretation is not the only one among Christians, although I believe it is that of the majority. When you go out on a date, your girlfriend / boyfriend is not obligated to tell you everything about himself/herself on the first date. How much more is a holy, infinite God free to reveal only as much about Himself as He wishes? There is no question from the Bible that Jesus Christ believes in hellfire, for He spoke about it in the Sermon on the Mount and in other places. After Christ's resurrection and ascension, the apostles further explained, through the Holy Spirit, Christ's teaching.
Anonymouse wrote:


So you believe in literal hellfire ?


{RobbyPants stated}

RobbyPants wrote:

Professor wrote:

Christian teachers refer to the Bible as "progressive revelation." God revealed Himself to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Then He revealed more of His nature and His precepts to Moses, David, Isaiah, Ezra, etc. God's Word is perfect. The Bible all revolves around the incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the second person of the blessed Trinity . . the apostles further explained, through the Holy Spirit, Christ's teaching. 

Basically, for the first four thousand years, people didn't know their souls were in peril if they didn't do what they were supposed to, because God decided to omit that part for the first 2/3 of creation. Got it. I like how this is compared to a series of dates. I can see doing that on dates, because those last a few hours at a time, and you can only give out so much info at any one. But you're saying that for some reason, God couldn't have told us everything over a single person's lifetime. No, the more likely reason the religion changed so much over the course of time is because it literally changed over the course of time. The ancient Judaean people wanted a war god. The people of 70+ CE were looking for eternal rewards. People today want those eternal rewards, but with a lot less of the crazy associated with YHWH carried to his logical conclusion.

And Lastly,
danatemporary wrote:

Re: What is believed.
Anonymouse wrote:

Professor wrote:
      Christian teachers refer to the Bible as "progressive revelation." God revealed Himself to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Then He revealed more of His nature and His precepts to Moses, David, Isaiah, Ezra, etc. God's Word is perfect. The Bible all revolves around the incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the second person of the blessed Trinity, Who took on human form. In the Old Testament Christ had not yet been born of the virgin Mary nor completed His mission. Hence the sins of the elect had not been paid for. All were sent after death to the same place in one sense, awaiting Christ's payment for sin. Christ's sacrifice of Himself on the cross was accepted by God as payment for the sins of those whom God ordained from the foundation of the world to be justified. After Christ shed His blood, the Epistle of Peter declares that "He went to preach to the spirits in prison." Assumedly at that time the elect were separated from the reprobate. My interpretation is not the only one among Christians, although I believe it is that of the majority. When you go out on a date, your girlfriend / boyfriend is not obligated to tell you everything about himself/herself on the first date. How much more is a holy, infinite God free to reveal only as much about Himself as He wishes? There is no question from the Bible that Jesus Christ believes in hellfire, for He spoke about it in the Sermon on the Mount and in other places. After Christ's resurrection and ascension, the apostles further explained, through the Holy Spirit, Christ's teaching.


So you believe in literal hellfire ? 

A.
  2 Pet. -- ..and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words ..  and their destruction is not asleep. 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; . . 10 and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.

etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Danatemporary,

That was a lot of gathering stuff on your part.  Don't you see however that the only unifying power of these is nihilism?  There is not a one of these atheists that is leading the atheist party beyond the frenzied (only imagined) demolition of faith in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.  

This is the theme of this thread:  (Beyond personal slurs, insults, laughing like thorns crackling under the pot) - the atheist leaders have nothing to offer in terms of daily sustenance in the form of ideas, concepts, purposes that unify and lift up.  

There is nothing there in the atheist leader, super-atheist, golden atheist, or grand potent worshipful master atheist - that can focus on life and death with anything other than throwing out a nervous distraction  (of which death is most certain and an un-denied reality), nor shed light on the life which (I would assume) is believed even by the atheist to exist while he or she lives it - faith though denied nevertheless.  

In other words, the theme of this thread is this:  You are following people here that are only engaged in demolition (but) going nowhere.  All of the posts you have pasted illustrate this.  

Forget Christianity, God and the Bible (which should be easy for you).  Without any reference to any of these or those who believe in them - simply tell me what the big picture of life and death is.  Tell me why we are here on earth and what should sustain us and lift us and instruct us every day of our lives and beyond.  

Look at it as a new day for you, a clean slate.  Imagine the whole goal of atheism has been accomplished, that nobody or their mother believes Jesus came to earth to save us and become the Lamb of God Whose blood paid the debt of sin for all those who believe in Him and submit their life and heart to His Indestructible Life which He Lives and moves within them.

Just imagine that's all gone forever yet you're still alive and able to experience the joy of reaching that goal completely free of all the bothersome annoyance of those who have faith in God;  and standing before all your fellow atheist soldiers, you, as General Jenkins Danatemporary are going to lead forth - upward and onward to the good life!  Where are you going to lead?  What are you going to lead with?  How are you going to get there - and where is there is?     

 

 

 

 

 

 


danatemporary
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I saw what you did here (twice)

 I saw what you did here


Fonzie wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

  As for bringing the fruits of my delight, I cannot be expected to fix your traffic problem nor do that. To do so, I'd have to cut-paste major portions of threads (plural) to here. And, Apparently I am having browser trouble is the feed back I got from a long-standing Moderator. Plus, If your Thread is about something, I dont think it would be fair for me to do so. Then you're at the mercy of my editing not to mention all my interests by such an act. That doesnt mean that is an excuse not to do something for you if asked  however.

 

 A thread that exists outside your bubble:
Old and New Testament Hell .  .

 

Fonzie wrote:

Danatemporary,

That was a lot of gathering on your part.  Don't you see however that the only unifying power of these is nihilism?  There is not a one of these atheists that is leading the atheist party beyond the frenzied (imagined) demolition of faith in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.  

This is the theme of this thread:  Beyond personal slurs, insults, laughing like thorns crackling under the pot

 

 

 Scriptural reference I did not fail to notice. Eccles. 6 Like the crackling of thorns under the pot, so is the laughter of fools. This too is meaningless.

 Yes, There are fools in every profession (unlike on other boards with atheists' packs; on this board they are few and far between). 

  On  a more serious note, Atheism has a belief but not a 'faith'.  Moreover,  It is an almost ignorant statement of equate the two (definitions in general are often not interchangeable). Please Note,  contrary to what you may have heard, atheism isn’t a nihilistic philosophy, since it’s not really a philosophy at all. Atheism is, rather, merely a cogent position which rejects the fallacious claims of the theist. None of which has even been addressed, in what I lengthily 'shared'. Yet ever since religion has espoused the existence of God, atheism has been getting some bad press. Atheism is often demonized by religionists who have misunderstood it. Atheism has a very simple and narrow definition, so making a distinction is necessary, unless you plan on reading into it a meaninglessness by definition. Definitionally stick with a basic and simpler understanding to start with. The assumption would be like you hear in some self-taught quarters that suggest early christianity was both a death cult and cannibalistic. Clearly a miss read and showing no understanding of the meaning, as to how it was understood.  If you want one side to be represented fairly, you are responsible to do the same, (beyond being merely courteous)! 

  More to the point! I saw what you did. Instead of talking about passages about hell or examining the issue (thoroughly). You make it about the comments of the board, thus being unfair to the board. Instead of an examination of the issue, (at all). Sure that's absolutely fine for the ineffectual, but don't worry you're sticking with it. Btw, What do you do differently then a TWD39 ? Sorry, You'd have to be active on the board to know who that is.  I could have sworn the word 'Hell' was remarked upon and mentioned ?

 Do overlook the Blog moment . .

 In contrast to your approach. I always go back to examine what is said. That entails going beyond mere personal opinion, from whatever perspective. Instead of watching Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade at my great Aunt's house.  I am earnestly finding any web-sources for das log tales. To be honest, You caught me in the middle of looking at Samsara of another faith and I am re-examining of the actual words used in the NDE and tibetan literature of the small number of the more influential das log accounts. The opposite of nyan thos in the(-ir) dialectic. As in a more graphic sense of 'destination'. Importantly, I found some interesting, provocative samsaric imagery (traces) among a spectra of groups of the region. Yes, I have a deep interest in religious imagery. That will NEVER change. Do Forgive the indulgence but I will share with you a couple of pages of what I was reading from, instead of watching. It partially explains why I was so reminded of Samsara. While not even citing a separate experience recounted in a tale of a Shaman's trance with the sensation (in vivid detail) of being literally cut-up and tossed in a fiery Cauldron. Samsaric implications arent lost there either. I will do so and share this even if is not immediately apparent as to it being applicable to the current topic. Interesting when faiths confront other faiths, if you dont comment. At least it will explain the search, if you or anyone cares to read on ?  Please View Image: 

 





 

 

 

  P.S. -- Get it through your head. No one on this board is interchangeable.  Oh, The battle is not won, when all you are making this about is your 'opinion' with no seeming examination. Again, The battle is not won.

 

 

 


jcgadfly
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Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Dana, he has to win the

Dana, he has to win the battle. He's the only one fighting it.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Fonzie
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HELL, YES - ATHEIST ANSWERS - NO

danatemporary wrote:

 I saw what you did here


Fonzie wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

  As for bringing the fruits of my delight, I cannot be expected to fix your traffic problem nor do that. To do so, I'd have to cut-paste major portions of threads (plural) to here. And, Apparently I am having browser trouble is the feed back I got from a long-standing Moderator. Plus, If your Thread is about something, I dont think it would be fair for me to do so. Then you're at the mercy of my editing not to mention all my interests by such an act. That doesnt mean that is an excuse not to do something for you if asked  however.

 

 A thread that exists outside your bubble:
Old and New Testament Hell .  .

 

Fonzie wrote:

Danatemporary,

That was a lot of gathering on your part.  Don't you see however that the only unifying power of these is nihilism?  There is not a one of these atheists that is leading the atheist party beyond the frenzied (imagined) demolition of faith in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.  

This is the theme of this thread:  Beyond personal slurs, insults, laughing like thorns crackling under the pot

 

 

 Scriptural reference I did not fail to notice. Eccles. 6 Like the crackling of thorns under the pot, so is the laughter of fools. This too is meaningless.

 Yes, There are fools in every profession (unlike on other boards with atheists' packs; on this board they are few and far between). 

  On  a more serious note, Atheism has a belief but not a 'faith'.  Moreover,  It is an almost ignorant statement of equate the two (definitions in general are often not interchangeable). Please Note,  contrary to what you may have heard, atheism isn’t a nihilistic philosophy, since it’s not really a philosophy at all. Atheism is, rather, merely a cogent position which rejects the fallacious claims of the theist. None of which has even been addressed, in what I lengthily 'shared'. Yet ever since religion has espoused the existence of God, atheism has been getting some bad press. Atheism is often demonized by religionists who have misunderstood it. Atheism has a very simple and narrow definition, so making a distinction is necessary, unless you plan on reading into it a meaninglessness by definition. Definitionally stick with a basic and simpler understanding to start with. The assumption would be like you hear in some self-taught quarters that suggest early christianity was both a death cult and cannibalistic. Clearly a miss read and showing no understanding of the meaning, as to how it was understood.  If you want one side to be represented fairly, you are responsible to do the same, (beyond being merely courteous)! 

  More to the point! I saw what you did. Instead of talking about passages about hell or examining the issue (thoroughly). You make it about the comments of the board, thus being unfair to the board. Instead of an examination of the issue, (at all). Sure that's absolutely fine for the ineffectual, but don't worry you're sticking with it. Btw, What do you do differently then a TWD39 ? Sorry, You'd have to be active on the board to know who that is.  I could have sworn the word 'Hell' was remarked upon and mentioned ?

 Do overlook the Blog moment . .

 In contrast to your approach. I always go back to examine what is said. That entails going beyond mere personal opinion, from whatever perspective. Instead of watching Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade at my great Aunt's house.  I am earnestly finding any web-sources for das log tales. To be honest, You caught me in the middle of looking at Samsara of another faith and I am re-examining of the actual words used in the NDE and tibetan literature of the small number of the more influential das log accounts. The opposite of nyan thos in the(-ir) dialectic. As in a more graphic sense of 'destination'. Importantly, I found some interesting, provocative samsaric imagery (traces) among a spectra of groups of the region. Yes, I have a deep interest in religious imagery. That will NEVER change. Do Forgive the indulgence but I will share with you a couple of pages of what I was reading from, instead of watching. It partially explains why I was so reminded of Samsara. While not even citing a separate experience recounted in a tale of a Shaman's trance with the sensation (in vivid detail) of being literally cut-up and tossed in a fiery Cauldron. Samsaric implications arent lost there either. I will do so and share this even if is not immediately apparent as to it being applicable to the current topic. Interesting when faiths confront other faiths, if you dont comment. At least it will explain the search, if you or anyone cares to read on ?  Please View Image: 

 





 

 

 

  P.S. -- Get it through your head. No one on this board is interchangeable.  Oh, The battle is not won, when all you are making this about is your 'opinion' with no seeming examination. Again, The battle is not won.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Danatemporary,

 

I didn't get anything that made any sense out of the reading.  Was the meaning and purpose of life in there and I missed it?  Sure you can spend your whole life exploring things interesting to me or you but have you found the answers?  

As to the discussion about hell I didn't see any point in pursuing it.  Hell is not the "Door" of the gospel and considering the behavior of say Pharaoh with respect to the plagues I don't think hell is the place to start with the atheist.  God doesn't want people to go there - it's evident in giving His Son to save us from it.  That's the power of the gospel to those who believe. Those who don't believe the gospel are a judge to themselves.   

So what I was supposed to get in my head is that all atheists are different?  That wasn't a thought I had at all.  The thing they have in common though is none of them can explain the meaning and purpose of life, death, eternity - beyond attacking God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Christians who just honestly believe what God has said and promised in His Word.  Why is the atheist even talking about hell - what does he care about hell?  But if he's not going to hell why doesn't he say where he's going instead?  

Fly and Any just want to help their fellow man and make the world a better place for you and for me and the entire human race but as far as any details about how they are going to do that beyond attacking God and Jesus and their concept of faith they are quieter than a wet twinkie.  So what the help they are going to help with is going to help do for those helped is as non existent as hell to them.

I'm saying that as far as knowing what they are about in this world and why is something no atheist has brought to the table as yet and I'm concluding they and you all have that in common.  

For the Christian the Spirit bears witness with our spirit we are children of God, heirs with Christ.  God who is rich in mercy out of the great love with which He loved us even when we were dead in our trespasses made us alive together with Christ (by grace) and has lifted us up, called us friends, dwells with us - Christ in us the hope of glory.  All who receive Him, who believe in His Name He gives power to become children of God - born of God.  If any man believes in Him - He has promised to come and dwell with him.  We have a lifetime supply of bread in the Word of God.  The Spirit is a refreshing fountain we can drink from constantly.  We look forward to the New Jerusalem coming down like a radiant bride from heaven - and then being forever with the LORD.  We won't be disappointed; in fact we are told the imagination of man is no match for conceiving of what heaven is.

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:danatemporary

Fonzie wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

 I saw what you did here


Fonzie wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

  As for bringing the fruits of my delight, I cannot be expected to fix your traffic problem nor do that. To do so, I'd have to cut-paste major portions of threads (plural) to here. And, Apparently I am having browser trouble is the feed back I got from a long-standing Moderator. Plus, If your Thread is about something, I dont think it would be fair for me to do so. Then you're at the mercy of my editing not to mention all my interests by such an act. That doesnt mean that is an excuse not to do something for you if asked  however.

 

 A thread that exists outside your bubble:
Old and New Testament Hell .  .

 

Fonzie wrote:

Danatemporary,

That was a lot of gathering on your part.  Don't you see however that the only unifying power of these is nihilism?  There is not a one of these atheists that is leading the atheist party beyond the frenzied (imagined) demolition of faith in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.  

This is the theme of this thread:  Beyond personal slurs, insults, laughing like thorns crackling under the pot

 

 

 Scriptural reference I did not fail to notice. Eccles. 6 Like the crackling of thorns under the pot, so is the laughter of fools. This too is meaningless.

 Yes, There are fools in every profession (unlike on other boards with atheists' packs; on this board they are few and far between). 

  On  a more serious note, Atheism has a belief but not a 'faith'.  Moreover,  It is an almost ignorant statement of equate the two (definitions in general are often not interchangeable). Please Note,  contrary to what you may have heard, atheism isn’t a nihilistic philosophy, since it’s not really a philosophy at all. Atheism is, rather, merely a cogent position which rejects the fallacious claims of the theist. None of which has even been addressed, in what I lengthily 'shared'. Yet ever since religion has espoused the existence of God, atheism has been getting some bad press. Atheism is often demonized by religionists who have misunderstood it. Atheism has a very simple and narrow definition, so making a distinction is necessary, unless you plan on reading into it a meaninglessness by definition. Definitionally stick with a basic and simpler understanding to start with. The assumption would be like you hear in some self-taught quarters that suggest early christianity was both a death cult and cannibalistic. Clearly a miss read and showing no understanding of the meaning, as to how it was understood.  If you want one side to be represented fairly, you are responsible to do the same, (beyond being merely courteous)! 

  More to the point! I saw what you did. Instead of talking about passages about hell or examining the issue (thoroughly). You make it about the comments of the board, thus being unfair to the board. Instead of an examination of the issue, (at all). Sure that's absolutely fine for the ineffectual, but don't worry you're sticking with it. Btw, What do you do differently then a TWD39 ? Sorry, You'd have to be active on the board to know who that is.  I could have sworn the word 'Hell' was remarked upon and mentioned ?

 Do overlook the Blog moment . .

 In contrast to your approach. I always go back to examine what is said. That entails going beyond mere personal opinion, from whatever perspective. Instead of watching Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade at my great Aunt's house.  I am earnestly finding any web-sources for das log tales. To be honest, You caught me in the middle of looking at Samsara of another faith and I am re-examining of the actual words used in the NDE and tibetan literature of the small number of the more influential das log accounts. The opposite of nyan thos in the(-ir) dialectic. As in a more graphic sense of 'destination'. Importantly, I found some interesting, provocative samsaric imagery (traces) among a spectra of groups of the region. Yes, I have a deep interest in religious imagery. That will NEVER change. Do Forgive the indulgence but I will share with you a couple of pages of what I was reading from, instead of watching. It partially explains why I was so reminded of Samsara. While not even citing a separate experience recounted in a tale of a Shaman's trance with the sensation (in vivid detail) of being literally cut-up and tossed in a fiery Cauldron. Samsaric implications arent lost there either. I will do so and share this even if is not immediately apparent as to it being applicable to the current topic. Interesting when faiths confront other faiths, if you dont comment. At least it will explain the search, if you or anyone cares to read on ?  Please View Image: 

 





 

 

 

  P.S. -- Get it through your head. No one on this board is interchangeable.  Oh, The battle is not won, when all you are making this about is your 'opinion' with no seeming examination. Again, The battle is not won.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Danatemporary,

 

I didn't get anything that made any sense out of the reading.  Was the meaning and purpose of life in there and I missed it?  Sure you can spend your whole life exploring things interesting to me or you but have you found the answers?  

As to the discussion about hell I didn't see any point in pursuing it.  Hell is not the "Door" of the gospel and considering the behavior of say Pharaoh with respect to the plagues I don't think hell is the place to start with the atheist.  God doesn't want people to go there - it's evident in giving His Son to save us from it.  That's the power of the gospel to those who believe. Those who don't believe the gospel are a judge to themselves.   

So what I was supposed to get in my head is that all atheists are different?  That wasn't a thought I had at all.  The thing they have in common though is none of them can explain the meaning and purpose of life, death, eternity - beyond attacking God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Christians who just honestly believe what God has said and promised in His Word.  Why is the atheist even talking about hell - what does he care about hell?  But if he's not going to hell why doesn't he say where he's going instead?  

Fly and Any just want to help their fellow man and make the world a better place for you and for me and the entire human race but as far as any details about how they are going to do that beyond attacking God and Jesus and their concept of faith they are quieter than a wet twinkie.  So what the help they are going to help with is going to help do for those helped is as non existent as hell to them.

I'm saying that as far as knowing what they are about in this world and why is something no atheist has brought to the table as yet and I'm concluding they and you all have that in common.  

For the Christian the Spirit bears witness with our spirit we are children of God, heirs with Christ.  God who is rich in mercy out of the great love with which He loved us even when we were dead in our trespasses made us alive together with Christ (by grace) and has lifted us up, called us friends, dwells with us - Christ in us the hope of glory.  All who receive Him, who believe in His Name He gives power to become children of God - born of God.  If any man believes in Him - He has promised to come and dwell with him.  We have a lifetime supply of bread in the Word of God.  The Spirit is a refreshing fountain we can drink from constantly.  We look forward to the New Jerusalem coming down like a radiant bride from heaven - and then being forever with the LORD.  We won't be disappointed; in fact we are told the imagination of man is no match for conceiving of what heaven is.

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Poor fonzie/meph,

Still can't get anyone to follow your example by agreeing that your lies are the truth?

You want to know how to help your fellow man and make the world a better place? You get off your ass and do things for people and in the world. Beats staying in one little internet forum lying and pontificating, doesn't it?

have fun playing church here.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
THE FLY WON'T LAND

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

 I saw what you did here


Fonzie wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

  As for bringing the fruits of my delight, I cannot be expected to fix your traffic problem nor do that. To do so, I'd have to cut-paste major portions of threads (plural) to here. And, Apparently I am having browser trouble is the feed back I got from a long-standing Moderator. Plus, If your Thread is about something, I dont think it would be fair for me to do so. Then you're at the mercy of my editing not to mention all my interests by such an act. That doesnt mean that is an excuse not to do something for you if asked  however.

 

 A thread that exists outside your bubble:
Old and New Testament Hell .  .

 

Fonzie wrote:

Danatemporary,

That was a lot of gathering on your part.  Don't you see however that the only unifying power of these is nihilism?  There is not a one of these atheists that is leading the atheist party beyond the frenzied (imagined) demolition of faith in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.  

This is the theme of this thread:  Beyond personal slurs, insults, laughing like thorns crackling under the pot

 

 

 Scriptural reference I did not fail to notice. Eccles. 6 Like the crackling of thorns under the pot, so is the laughter of fools. This too is meaningless.

 Yes, There are fools in every profession (unlike on other boards with atheists' packs; on this board they are few and far between). 

  On  a more serious note, Atheism has a belief but not a 'faith'.  Moreover,  It is an almost ignorant statement of equate the two (definitions in general are often not interchangeable). Please Note,  contrary to what you may have heard, atheism isn’t a nihilistic philosophy, since it’s not really a philosophy at all. Atheism is, rather, merely a cogent position which rejects the fallacious claims of the theist. None of which has even been addressed, in what I lengthily 'shared'. Yet ever since religion has espoused the existence of God, atheism has been getting some bad press. Atheism is often demonized by religionists who have misunderstood it. Atheism has a very simple and narrow definition, so making a distinction is necessary, unless you plan on reading into it a meaninglessness by definition. Definitionally stick with a basic and simpler understanding to start with. The assumption would be like you hear in some self-taught quarters that suggest early christianity was both a death cult and cannibalistic. Clearly a miss read and showing no understanding of the meaning, as to how it was understood.  If you want one side to be represented fairly, you are responsible to do the same, (beyond being merely courteous)! 

  More to the point! I saw what you did. Instead of talking about passages about hell or examining the issue (thoroughly). You make it about the comments of the board, thus being unfair to the board. Instead of an examination of the issue, (at all). Sure that's absolutely fine for the ineffectual, but don't worry you're sticking with it. Btw, What do you do differently then a TWD39 ? Sorry, You'd have to be active on the board to know who that is.  I could have sworn the word 'Hell' was remarked upon and mentioned ?

 Do overlook the Blog moment . .

 In contrast to your approach. I always go back to examine what is said. That entails going beyond mere personal opinion, from whatever perspective. Instead of watching Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade at my great Aunt's house.  I am earnestly finding any web-sources for das log tales. To be honest, You caught me in the middle of looking at Samsara of another faith and I am re-examining of the actual words used in the NDE and tibetan literature of the small number of the more influential das log accounts. The opposite of nyan thos in the(-ir) dialectic. As in a more graphic sense of 'destination'. Importantly, I found some interesting, provocative samsaric imagery (traces) among a spectra of groups of the region. Yes, I have a deep interest in religious imagery. That will NEVER change. Do Forgive the indulgence but I will share with you a couple of pages of what I was reading from, instead of watching. It partially explains why I was so reminded of Samsara. While not even citing a separate experience recounted in a tale of a Shaman's trance with the sensation (in vivid detail) of being literally cut-up and tossed in a fiery Cauldron. Samsaric implications arent lost there either. I will do so and share this even if is not immediately apparent as to it being applicable to the current topic. Interesting when faiths confront other faiths, if you dont comment. At least it will explain the search, if you or anyone cares to read on ?  Please View Image: 

 





 

 

 

  P.S. -- Get it through your head. No one on this board is interchangeable.  Oh, The battle is not won, when all you are making this about is your 'opinion' with no seeming examination. Again, The battle is not won.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Danatemporary,

 

I didn't get anything that made any sense out of the reading.  Was the meaning and purpose of life in there and I missed it?  Sure you can spend your whole life exploring things interesting to me or you but have you found the answers?  

As to the discussion about hell I didn't see any point in pursuing it.  Hell is not the "Door" of the gospel and considering the behavior of say Pharaoh with respect to the plagues I don't think hell is the place to start with the atheist.  God doesn't want people to go there - it's evident in giving His Son to save us from it.  That's the power of the gospel to those who believe. Those who don't believe the gospel are a judge to themselves.   

So what I was supposed to get in my head is that all atheists are different?  That wasn't a thought I had at all.  The thing they have in common though is none of them can explain the meaning and purpose of life, death, eternity - beyond attacking God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Christians who just honestly believe what God has said and promised in His Word.  Why is the atheist even talking about hell - what does he care about hell?  But if he's not going to hell why doesn't he say where he's going instead?  

Fly and Any just want to help their fellow man and make the world a better place for you and for me and the entire human race but as far as any details about how they are going to do that beyond attacking God and Jesus and their concept of faith they are quieter than a wet twinkie.  So what the help they are going to help with is going to help do for those helped is as non existent as hell to them.

I'm saying that as far as knowing what they are about in this world and why is something no atheist has brought to the table as yet and I'm concluding they and you all have that in common.  

For the Christian the Spirit bears witness with our spirit we are children of God, heirs with Christ.  God who is rich in mercy out of the great love with which He loved us even when we were dead in our trespasses made us alive together with Christ (by grace) and has lifted us up, called us friends, dwells with us - Christ in us the hope of glory.  All who receive Him, who believe in His Name He gives power to become children of God - born of God.  If any man believes in Him - He has promised to come and dwell with him.  We have a lifetime supply of bread in the Word of God.  The Spirit is a refreshing fountain we can drink from constantly.  We look forward to the New Jerusalem coming down like a radiant bride from heaven - and then being forever with the LORD.  We won't be disappointed; in fact we are told the imagination of man is no match for conceiving of what heaven is.

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Poor fonzie/meph,

Still can't get anyone to follow your example by agreeing that your lies are the truth?

You want to know how to help your fellow man and make the world a better place? You get off your ass and do things for people and in the world. Beats staying in one little internet forum lying and pontificating, doesn't it?

have fun playing church here.

 

 

 

Fly,

 

Sure, just rage and laugh and exhibit your total faith in your thoughts and dreams and imagination about what I am doing...  We are discussing ideas and concepts here Fly that fuel what we're doing (I HAVE GIVEN WHAT WORKS FOR ME); however, when ask what your overall view  about why you are doing what you are doing - you instead throw firebrands, arrows and death (there's another one for you Danatemporary) to distract from the examination of your motives.  Accusing me of "playing church" doesn't tell me what your plan is - it is only your attack on my thinking springing from your aversion to the body of Christ and even Christ Himself.  I understand you disdain my thinking - but what is your thinking other than mocking my thinking?      

Look, you don't know what I am doing and I don't know what you are doing (and I haven't tried to act like I do or attack you for what you're doing or not doing so regroup here).  You say your goal is to help your fellow man.  I ask what is the thinking behind your help and where does your help take those you help.  I even said, (to repeat), just forget your crusade against God and Jesus and the believers you are attacking for a moment (it should be easy since you don't think it exists)  and explain what your overall view of life and death and help truly is and why (but leave out any attack of God and Jesus and the Bible).  Is this too much to ask?  Instead you prove my theorem by reverting from the subject at hand to attacking me - which isn't a plan for helping man.  I'm trying to be clear here about what we're discussing.    

Instead of being glad to instruct me in your better way you express your imagination fueled by your anger and leave the void that is the atheist's dilemma blank.  

So I think in the realm of ideas you (and all the other atheists including the grand worshipful potent atheist Brian) are proving wanting.  I haven't talked about what I am doing and you haven't talked about what you are doing - you changed the subject in order to avoid the question of what (other than attacking God and Christ and believers in the Word of God) - ok, other than that diversion now - what is your understanding of life and death and life after death that motivates and lifts you and yours every moment to help your fellow man.  Even flies require fuel.   We are talking building ideas here Fly, concepts, principles, perspective - not demolition ideas.  Bring out the light and shine it on your ideas and world of thought.  Send the beam across the wave and all that.  I honestly don't know what the atheist motive and thinking and perspective is - other than the obvious attack on faith in God, etc., etc., and I'm having the growing suspicion it doesn't exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

 I saw what you did here


Fonzie wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

  As for bringing the fruits of my delight, I cannot be expected to fix your traffic problem nor do that. To do so, I'd have to cut-paste major portions of threads (plural) to here. And, Apparently I am having browser trouble is the feed back I got from a long-standing Moderator. Plus, If your Thread is about something, I dont think it would be fair for me to do so. Then you're at the mercy of my editing not to mention all my interests by such an act. That doesnt mean that is an excuse not to do something for you if asked  however.

 

 A thread that exists outside your bubble:
Old and New Testament Hell .  .

 

Fonzie wrote:

Danatemporary,

That was a lot of gathering on your part.  Don't you see however that the only unifying power of these is nihilism?  There is not a one of these atheists that is leading the atheist party beyond the frenzied (imagined) demolition of faith in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.  

This is the theme of this thread:  Beyond personal slurs, insults, laughing like thorns crackling under the pot

 

 

 Scriptural reference I did not fail to notice. Eccles. 6 Like the crackling of thorns under the pot, so is the laughter of fools. This too is meaningless.

 Yes, There are fools in every profession (unlike on other boards with atheists' packs; on this board they are few and far between). 

  On  a more serious note, Atheism has a belief but not a 'faith'.  Moreover,  It is an almost ignorant statement of equate the two (definitions in general are often not interchangeable). Please Note,  contrary to what you may have heard, atheism isn’t a nihilistic philosophy, since it’s not really a philosophy at all. Atheism is, rather, merely a cogent position which rejects the fallacious claims of the theist. None of which has even been addressed, in what I lengthily 'shared'. Yet ever since religion has espoused the existence of God, atheism has been getting some bad press. Atheism is often demonized by religionists who have misunderstood it. Atheism has a very simple and narrow definition, so making a distinction is necessary, unless you plan on reading into it a meaninglessness by definition. Definitionally stick with a basic and simpler understanding to start with. The assumption would be like you hear in some self-taught quarters that suggest early christianity was both a death cult and cannibalistic. Clearly a miss read and showing no understanding of the meaning, as to how it was understood.  If you want one side to be represented fairly, you are responsible to do the same, (beyond being merely courteous)! 

  More to the point! I saw what you did. Instead of talking about passages about hell or examining the issue (thoroughly). You make it about the comments of the board, thus being unfair to the board. Instead of an examination of the issue, (at all). Sure that's absolutely fine for the ineffectual, but don't worry you're sticking with it. Btw, What do you do differently then a TWD39 ? Sorry, You'd have to be active on the board to know who that is.  I could have sworn the word 'Hell' was remarked upon and mentioned ?

 Do overlook the Blog moment . .

 In contrast to your approach. I always go back to examine what is said. That entails going beyond mere personal opinion, from whatever perspective. Instead of watching Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade at my great Aunt's house.  I am earnestly finding any web-sources for das log tales. To be honest, You caught me in the middle of looking at Samsara of another faith and I am re-examining of the actual words used in the NDE and tibetan literature of the small number of the more influential das log accounts. The opposite of nyan thos in the(-ir) dialectic. As in a more graphic sense of 'destination'. Importantly, I found some interesting, provocative samsaric imagery (traces) among a spectra of groups of the region. Yes, I have a deep interest in religious imagery. That will NEVER change. Do Forgive the indulgence but I will share with you a couple of pages of what I was reading from, instead of watching. It partially explains why I was so reminded of Samsara. While not even citing a separate experience recounted in a tale of a Shaman's trance with the sensation (in vivid detail) of being literally cut-up and tossed in a fiery Cauldron. Samsaric implications arent lost there either. I will do so and share this even if is not immediately apparent as to it being applicable to the current topic. Interesting when faiths confront other faiths, if you dont comment. At least it will explain the search, if you or anyone cares to read on ?  Please View Image: 

 





 

 

 

  P.S. -- Get it through your head. No one on this board is interchangeable.  Oh, The battle is not won, when all you are making this about is your 'opinion' with no seeming examination. Again, The battle is not won.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Danatemporary,

 

I didn't get anything that made any sense out of the reading.  Was the meaning and purpose of life in there and I missed it?  Sure you can spend your whole life exploring things interesting to me or you but have you found the answers?  

As to the discussion about hell I didn't see any point in pursuing it.  Hell is not the "Door" of the gospel and considering the behavior of say Pharaoh with respect to the plagues I don't think hell is the place to start with the atheist.  God doesn't want people to go there - it's evident in giving His Son to save us from it.  That's the power of the gospel to those who believe. Those who don't believe the gospel are a judge to themselves.   

So what I was supposed to get in my head is that all atheists are different?  That wasn't a thought I had at all.  The thing they have in common though is none of them can explain the meaning and purpose of life, death, eternity - beyond attacking God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Christians who just honestly believe what God has said and promised in His Word.  Why is the atheist even talking about hell - what does he care about hell?  But if he's not going to hell why doesn't he say where he's going instead?  

Fly and Any just want to help their fellow man and make the world a better place for you and for me and the entire human race but as far as any details about how they are going to do that beyond attacking God and Jesus and their concept of faith they are quieter than a wet twinkie.  So what the help they are going to help with is going to help do for those helped is as non existent as hell to them.

I'm saying that as far as knowing what they are about in this world and why is something no atheist has brought to the table as yet and I'm concluding they and you all have that in common.  

For the Christian the Spirit bears witness with our spirit we are children of God, heirs with Christ.  God who is rich in mercy out of the great love with which He loved us even when we were dead in our trespasses made us alive together with Christ (by grace) and has lifted us up, called us friends, dwells with us - Christ in us the hope of glory.  All who receive Him, who believe in His Name He gives power to become children of God - born of God.  If any man believes in Him - He has promised to come and dwell with him.  We have a lifetime supply of bread in the Word of God.  The Spirit is a refreshing fountain we can drink from constantly.  We look forward to the New Jerusalem coming down like a radiant bride from heaven - and then being forever with the LORD.  We won't be disappointed; in fact we are told the imagination of man is no match for conceiving of what heaven is.

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Poor fonzie/meph,

Still can't get anyone to follow your example by agreeing that your lies are the truth?

You want to know how to help your fellow man and make the world a better place? You get off your ass and do things for people and in the world. Beats staying in one little internet forum lying and pontificating, doesn't it?

have fun playing church here.

 

 

 

Fly,

 

Sure, just rage and laugh and exhibit your total faith in your thoughts and dreams and imagination about what I am doing...  We are discussing ideas and concepts here Fly that fuel what we're doing (I HAVE GIVEN WHAT WORKS FOR ME); however, when ask what your overall view  about why you are doing what you are doing - you instead throw firebrands, arrows and death (there's another one for you Danatemporary) to distract from the examination of your motives.  Accusing me of "playing church" doesn't tell me what your plan is - it is only your attack on my thinking springing from your aversion to the body of Christ and even Christ Himself.  I understand you disdain my thinking - but what is your thinking other than mocking my thinking?      

Look, you don't know what I am doing and I don't know what you are doing (and I haven't tried to act like I do or attack you for what you're doing or not doing so regroup here).  You say your goal is to help your fellow man.  I ask what is the thinking behind your help and where does your help take those you help.  I even said, (to repeat), just forget your crusade against God and Jesus and the believers you are attacking for a moment (it should be easy since you don't think it exists)  and explain what your overall view of life and death and help truly is and why (but leave out any attack of God and Jesus and the Bible).  Is this too much to ask?  Instead you prove my theorem by reverting from the subject at hand to attacking me - which isn't a plan for helping man.  I'm trying to be clear here about what we're discussing.    

Instead of being glad to instruct me in your better way you express your imagination fueled by your anger and leave the void that is the atheist's dilemma blank.  

So I think in the realm of ideas you (and all the other atheists including the grand worshipful potent atheist Brian) are proving wanting.  I haven't talked about what I am doing and you haven't talked about what you are doing - you changed the subject in order to avoid the question of what (other than attacking God and Christ and believers in the Word of God) - ok, other than that diversion now - what is your understanding of life and death and life after death that motivates and lifts you and yours every moment to help your fellow man.  Even flies require fuel.   We are talking building ideas here Fly, concepts, principles, perspective - not demolition ideas.  Bring out the light and shine it on your ideas and world of thought.  Send the beam across the wave and all that.  I honestly don't know what the atheist motive and thinking and perspective is - other than the obvious attack on faith in God, etc., etc., and I'm having the growing suspicion it doesn't exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fonzie/meph

Did you make this raging and laughing stuff up along with this most recent identity? None of that was in my post.

"I HAVE GIVEN WHAT WORKS FOR ME)" - as have I. You just disapprove of it because some of us don't need a magic man in the sky or a book they worship to tell them to be nice to people.

Quit creating rage and mockery as an excuse to ignore people.

You honestly don't know about what you call the "atheist motive" for two reasons:

1. There are as many motives as there are atheists. Mine are what I've stated. We're individuals. You seem to disapprove of this.

2. You've shown you don't care about the answers you've been given.

So, why should I take a proven and self-confessed liar such as yourself seriously again?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


GodsUseForAMosquito
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 It's simple.Atheists don't

 It's simple.

Atheists don't believe in life after death, so we have a morality that extends as far as other people's lives and no further. We deem Life to be worth living (in most cases) AS AN END IN ITSELF. There is no greater plan. That's it.

On the other hand, many of us see religion as being a negative force that reduces people's ability to enjoy life to its fullest extent. You may be loving life. Good for you. But those killed in Gaza or Afghanistan, those dying because they are not allowed birth control or abortions even when their life was in danger (read some recent Irish newspapers), those discriminated against because they are gay and their entire religious family has disowned them, or who live a lie because they daren't tell their family.. all these things and more are causing pain and suffering due to nothing more than a dogmatic adherence to some old books, normally having been indoctrinated by their parents.

 

It's not needed, it causes harm. Atheism doesn't in and of itself.

 

I really don't think it needs 3000+ posts to make this point.

 (Edit: I just realised I made pretty much the same comment in post #38 of this thread... 4 years later the same thing is being said. Sigh)

 


jcgadfly
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GodsUseForAMosquito

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 It's simple.

Atheists don't believe in life after death, so we have a morality that extends as far as other people's lives and no further. We deem Life to be worth living (in most cases) AS AN END IN ITSELF. There is no greater plan. That's it.

On the other hand, many of us see religion as being a negative force that reduces people's ability to enjoy life to its fullest extent. You may be loving life. Good for you. But those killed in Gaza or Afghanistan, those dying because they are not allowed birth control or abortions even when their life was in danger (read some recent Irish newspapers), those discriminated against because they are gay and their entire religious family has disowned them, or who live a lie because they daren't tell their family.. all these things and more are causing pain and suffering due to nothing more than a dogmatic adherence to some old books, normally having been indoctrinated by their parents.

 

It's not needed, it causes harm. Atheism doesn't in and of itself.

 

I really don't think it needs 3000+ posts to make this point.

 (Edit: I just realised I made pretty much the same comment in post #38 of this thread... 4 years later the same thing is being said. Sigh)

 

Welcome to fonzie/meph world - Even if people have told him the same thing repeatedly they still haven't told him anything.

Fonzie/meph, how can we take you seriously about Jesus and the Bible when you keep lying about the small stuff?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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BYE BYE MISS AMERICAN PIE

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 It's simple.

Atheists don't believe in life after death, so we have a morality that extends as far as other people's lives and no further. We deem Life to be worth living (in most cases) AS AN END IN ITSELF. There is no greater plan. That's it.

On the other hand, many of us see religion as being a negative force that reduces people's ability to enjoy life to its fullest extent. You may be loving life. Good for you. But those killed in Gaza or Afghanistan, those dying because they are not allowed birth control or abortions even when their life was in danger (read some recent Irish newspapers), those discriminated against because they are gay and their entire religious family has disowned them, or who live a lie because they daren't tell their family.. all these things and more are causing pain and suffering due to nothing more than a dogmatic adherence to some old books, normally having been indoctrinated by their parents.

 

It's not needed, it causes harm. Atheism doesn't in and of itself.

 

I really don't think it needs 3000+ posts to make this point.

 (Edit: I just realised I made pretty much the same comment in post #38 of this thread... 4 years later the same thing is being said. Sigh)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mosquito,

 

So atheists make it up as they go along, like jazz.  They all jazz together - anyone can play and create as long as they meet the basic critical requirement:  they don't believe there is a God Who created them, a Jesus Who died for them and rose again, don't believe there is eternal life after death which starts now in knowing Jesus and don't believe the Bible.  That's all that's required to make you a back slap-ee on this forum and a fellow jazz player, shredding faith and blaming God for the devil's product with a little blasphemy thrown in to leave sign for those who follow.    

I have heard this answer before and in "what faith you" I had an astonished look at this astonishing thing - that people can actually put faith in all that jazz - otherwise smart people in some areas.  It's stunning to think atheism can be believed and accepted as all there is.  It would be like spending all your life in a phone booth with no phone book and no phone - in the middle of a desert upside down, yet be sure you've found it and that's all there is.  Yeah it's hard for me to believe people accept that from my side.  

I have ask if that's it, and only it - and it seems to be indeed.  There's no Bible for the atheist - no anchor, no reference, no instruction, no food for what is, was, and will be, and no phone for real help.  If this life is only an "end in itself", why do some end so quickly, aborted as you mention and what is "itself" anyway?  And who is the enemy of the atheist?  Is it God Who the atheist thinks doesn't exist, their ultimate strawman?  And what about the devil as an enemy - the atheist thinks he doesn't exist either while he runs wild?  But then the atheist just makes his jazz with his jazz "friends" - those who help him believe the lie and believe it themselves, and he just plays his hoo hoo tune which goes nowhere until the music dies..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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 So atheists make it up as

 

What you call god I call serendipity

What you call the devil I call misfortune

What you call hell I call nothing

What you call Heaven I call delusion

Where you claim faith I stare, astonished, and demand evidence.


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Fonzie

Fonzie wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 It's simple.

Atheists don't believe in life after death, so we have a morality that extends as far as other people's lives and no further. We deem Life to be worth living (in most cases) AS AN END IN ITSELF. There is no greater plan. That's it.

On the other hand, many of us see religion as being a negative force that reduces people's ability to enjoy life to its fullest extent. You may be loving life. Good for you. But those killed in Gaza or Afghanistan, those dying because they are not allowed birth control or abortions even when their life was in danger (read some recent Irish newspapers), those discriminated against because they are gay and their entire religious family has disowned them, or who live a lie because they daren't tell their family.. all these things and more are causing pain and suffering due to nothing more than a dogmatic adherence to some old books, normally having been indoctrinated by their parents.

 

It's not needed, it causes harm. Atheism doesn't in and of itself.

 

I really don't think it needs 3000+ posts to make this point.

 (Edit: I just realised I made pretty much the same comment in post #38 of this thread... 4 years later the same thing is being said. Sigh)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mosquito,

 

So atheists make it up as they go along, like jazz.  They all jazz together - anyone can play and create as long as they meet the basic critical requirement:  they don't believe there is a God Who created them, a Jesus Who died for them and rose again, don't believe there is eternal life after death which starts now in knowing Jesus and don't believe the Bible.  That's all that's required to make you a back slap-ee on this forum and a fellow jazz player, shredding faith and blaming God for the devil's product with a little blasphemy thrown in to leave sign for those who follow.    

I have heard this answer before and in "what faith you" I had an astonished look at this astonishing thing - that people can actually put faith in all that jazz - otherwise smart people in some areas.  It's stunning to think atheism can be believed and accepted as all there is.  It would be like spending all your life in a phone booth with no phone book and no phone - in the middle of a desert upside down, yet be sure you've found it and that's all there is.  Yeah it's hard for me to believe people accept that from my side.  

I have ask if that's it, and only it - and it seems to be indeed.  There's no Bible for the atheist - no anchor, no reference, no instruction, no food for what is, was, and will be, and no phone for real help.  If this life is only an "end in itself", why do some end so quickly, aborted as you mention and what is "itself" anyway?  And who is the enemy of the atheist?  Is it God Who the atheist thinks doesn't exist, their ultimate strawman?  And what about the devil as an enemy - the atheist thinks he doesn't exist either while he runs wild?  But then the atheist just makes his jazz with his jazz "friends" - those who help him believe the lie and believe it themselves, and he just plays his hoo hoo tune which goes nowhere until the music dies..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fonzie/meph,

You make it up as you go along as well. You just attribute any good things that happen to a god and any bad things that happen to a devil so you can take yourself off the hook.

No one puts faith in "the jazz" as you call it. We simply acknowledge our ability to play.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


zarathustra
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(Poe)

It was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's output:

Quote:
What you call god I call serendipity

What you call the devil I call misfortune

What you call hell I call nothing

What you call Heaven I call delusion

Where you claim faith I stare, astonished, and demand evidence.

What I call nothing, you call your god.

god calls you, and you choose not to heed Him.

Quote:
You make it up as you go along as well. You just attribute any good things that happen to a god and any bad things that happen to a devil so you can take yourself off the hook.

No one puts faith in "the jazz" as you call it. We simply acknowledge our ability to play.

god has made everything, and I choose to go along with His plan.  You choose not to, to let yourself off the hook.

Every atheist plays his own tune, and pretends it's jazz.

I choose to follow the Conductor.  He was bound with cords for my sake, so I will play the right chords for Him.

 

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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zarathustra wrote:It was

zarathustra wrote:

It was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's output:

Quote:
What you call god I call serendipity

What you call the devil I call misfortune

What you call hell I call nothing

What you call Heaven I call delusion

Where you claim faith I stare, astonished, and demand evidence.

What I call nothing, you call your god.

god calls you, and you choose not to heed Him.

Quote:
You make it up as you go along as well. You just attribute any good things that happen to a god and any bad things that happen to a devil so you can take yourself off the hook.

No one puts faith in "the jazz" as you call it. We simply acknowledge our ability to play.

god has made everything, and I choose to go along with His plan.  You choose not to, to let yourself off the hook.

Every atheist plays his own tune, and pretends it's jazz.

I choose to follow the Conductor.  He was bound with cords for my sake, so I will play the right chords for Him.

 

good approximation zara - keep it up and we might confuse you for fonziemeph's new sock puppet.

I rather hope he does bring up something like that so I can let him in again on the responsibility absolving aspects of forgiveness.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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THE ATHEIST'S BIG BANG FAITH IN EMPTY SELF

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 

What you call god I call serendipity

What you call the devil I call misfortune

What you call hell I call nothing

What you call Heaven I call delusion

Where you claim faith I stare, astonished, and demand evidence.

 

 

 

 

Mosquito,

It's understood we are in totally different places concerning these things.  In your list YOU make the call on God, the devil, Heaven, Hell and faith; IOW, you believe yourself and you believe IN yourself and your call on these things.  

What gives you credibility and security in your eyes to make these calls?  Have you not learned you can't always trust yourself?  Have you not seen yourself be TOTALLY sure about something yet discover you were TOTALLY WRONG?  

How do you give yourself authority to determine things such as these when obviously being in the land of the living neither you nor I have experienced what is beyond the horizon of death yet you are content to let your thinking drift to "serendipity, misfortune, nothing, delusion" - and let people who can PRODUCE NO ANSWER comfort you in this dead sea of nothingness?  

Is it like, "I'm going nowhere too and don't know anything and don't want to know anything about the meaning of life and death either or why we are here, but is that really enough to build a relationship on?"  Do you need to let Fly now tell you what ridicule to impose and what "nothingness" you are now to think about to avoid thinking about these serious realities?  Talk about evidence - check out cemeteries!

Do you lack the courage to explore the riches of the Word of God, the Bible?  I am not naming these things myself as you list them - I am citing the Word of God as the Authority and Jesus the Son of God as the King of Kings and the One God has given "All Authority in Heaven and earth" to.  My faith is in the Word of God.  There is a difference in you "calling" these things what you think they are and instead realizing the Word of God is true and letting IT shine the Light of Truth on all these things.  

What is the atheist's bible and what is the atheist's standard?  What is the atheist's plan and purpose other than attacking God and the Bible and believers?  What is the atheist's understanding of the meaning of life and death and the reason for rowing against the current upstream, onward and upward to higher and higher ground?  What does the atheist have to motivate doing that?  

What is the atheist's rallying point to help their fellow man (as mentioned several times).  How is it that atheism inspires all atheists to do that and how?  Notice there has been no answer to these things, only mocking, slander, ridicule and imagined demolition by atheists who thus show themselves to be hypocrites - slandering faith in God yet having ENORMOUS faith in themselves.

The atheists can no more lay out their understanding of life and death and their plan - without slandering God and faith in God - than they can stop breathing and keep slandering.  Fly and Any refer to a time "Long, long ago... in a place far, far away"... where they have "answered these questions", ha!  When you find those answers be sure and watch out for the Big Bang which will surely be happening at the same time and place. 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 


GodsUseForAMosquito
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 Yeah, I'm done debating a

 Yeah, I'm done debating a delusional person unable to read and understand anyone's points other than their own. Good luck with that.

 

I suggest we let this thread (finally die) - this person has shown time and time again they persistently ignore any points put to them.

 

Die thread, just. please. die.


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Lol !

 

 Misc. --


danatemporary
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Lol !

 

 It would be smart to take a closer look at Ancient Near East studies. Allow me to assist with this Image for starters:

 



 


Re :: Lol !

{GodsUseForAMosquito replies}

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 Yeah, I'm done debating a delusional person unable to read and understand anyone's points other than their own. Good luck with that.

 

I suggest we let this thread (finally die) - this person has shown time and time again they persistently ignore any points put to them.

 

Die thread, just. please. die.

  Lol (tehehe)

 p.s. --  Why do you lack the courage to talk about specific subjects in "God's Word" , as Foz puts it,  like 'Hell'. Please  know you are getting less and less traffic to this thread.  M-a-r-k 14;30


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THE SCREECHING HALT OF WHAT I'VE NEVER SEEN DONE IF IT EXISTS

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 Yeah, I'm done debating a delusional person unable to read and understand anyone's points other than their own. Good luck with that.

 

I suggest we let this thread (finally die) - this person has shown time and time again they persistently ignore any points put to them.

 

Die thread, just. please. die.

 

 

Mosquito,

I know it's quite a handicap to ask an atheist to explain what they're all about, where they're going, what life means to them and why  (the leadership thing, who's leading and where, etc., etc.), with the handicap, that is; - WITH THE STIPULATION BEING THAT IS: to simply leave off the imagined demolition of faith in God, the mockery, the personal attack.  Without that - well, what does life matter anyway and where does life go!  I would think if you had it and you're living it you could easily produce it and be not just a "golden contributional atheist" or a "super blasphemisorical atheist" or a "moderate jurastistical atheist" but also a "proud informed sharing motivational atheist".    

So, you say you are going to stop something you haven't done (debate your side and give the sense to it), and that is the end of that...  

You know, no atheist (including the grand potentate blasphemy challenging atheist Brian) has brought any depth to the meaning of life and death or the moment by moment motivation (don't tell me it's not needed if you actually do it BTW) to "help your fellow man" as I've heard vague reference to time and again with no explanation of what that help is or why it is or how it is brought forth.  

Simply corner one on a discussion of substance about the basic questions of life - like, "Why are we here?" and it's end of discussion...or, they grab the horns of the atheist altar: mockery, blasphemy, and any one of about 4 words considered an indication of extreme sublimity.  

You haven't debated and you're going to stop.  I'm thinking atheists haven't lived - either - and are taking the same approach to that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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GodsUseForAMosquito . . sending you my best :)

(Edit : T0 Foz )

  And so,

 It would be smart to take a closer look at Ancient Near East studies. Allow me to assist with this Image for starters:

 



 


 


Re :: Lol !

(Edit : T0 Foz )

{GodsUseForAMosquito replies}

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 Yeah, I'm done debating a delusional person unable to read and understand anyone's points other than their own. Good luck with that.

 

I suggest we let this thread (finally die) - this person has shown time and time again they persistently ignore any points put to them.

 

Die thread, just. please. die.

  Lol (tehehe)

 p.s. --  Why do you lack the courage to talk about specific subjects in "God's Word" , as Foz puts it,  like 'Hell'. Please  know you are getting less and less traffic to this thread.  M-a-r-k 14;30


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Ok, you have faith in the man.

Fonzie wrote:

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

 

( Don't let things get you down) But, do you have faith in him or what he represents. Having faith in a person can be fallacy. It's what he represents is what is important.

 First off, I think you should look again. The idea you have of hum is OK but now you need to understand him. And, if you are happy with you knowledge be it true or not--it is better to be happy then not. Happiness is a choice.

 Also understand--the Europeans got it wrong, so be careful what you believe, and most things from the dark age is really way out there---nowhere.

 start over by contemplating that Creation is something spiritual rather then material---you'll find a different story after a while. The Euros used the book for their own ends and made a botched deal out of it.

 

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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GodsUseForAMosquito

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 (Edit: I just realised I made pretty much the same comment in post #38 of this thread... 4 years later the same thing is being said. Sigh)

If I was a betting man (which I am) I would place my bet that roughly four years from today you will be saying pretty much the same thing and Fonzie will still be Fonzie.  I've pretty much given up on keeping up with this thread for about a year now but Dana tempted me over here this morning- nice to see that nothing has changed.

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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YOU'RE A BETTING MAN - NOW, ARE YOU A DEBATING MAN?

Beyond Saving wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 (Edit: I just realised I made pretty much the same comment in post #38 of this thread... 4 years later the same thing is being said. Sigh)

If I was a betting man (which I am) I would place my bet that roughly four years from today you will be saying pretty much the same thing and Fonzie will still be Fonzie.  I've pretty much given up on keeping up with this thread for about a year now but Dana tempted me over here this morning- nice to see that nothing has changed.

 DEBATE PARTICIPANT #1:

 

Be,

Well, I guess I'll have to take that back then.  This is all out debate here and you have laid out the atheist plan, motivation, perspective on life and death (NOT) and even thrown in a little betting.  You just come on and say nobody's changing - but tell me what is so great about atheism that you're not changing from it?  That's not so hard is it?  You guys want to call this a debate but it's anything but a debate because you never tell what makes you tick and why.  You don't show me the atheist "better way".   If you want to make a sure bet it's that there isn't one from your side.

You've got to say we're doing business here...I mean debating (HA).  I tell you why I believe and Who I believe and why and what my basis for understanding life, death the Life that Lives within me through faith in the substitutionary death of the Son of God - saved by the Blood of the Lamb (by grace - actually saved while an enemy).  I've talked about how faith busts through all the doubts and questionings and gaps (some from growth pains and some just not revealed), and faith enables courage based on trust in God Who doesn't change and doesn't let you down.  He is not ashamed of us - whether fisherman, prostitute, sinful despised cast off estranged, whatever.  Our King of Kings has won the hearts of His kingdom by giving His Life's blood for us.  That motivates me 24-7, etc., etc.,etc.

Now... it's your turn.  Don't comment on my theist view and don't come on and tell me what's wrong with it - it doesn't concern you.  You don't believe it.  You have something better.  No ridicule, no anti-faith, no anti-Christ - instead, just spell out and lay out your atheist answer to life and death and that which empowers you to the finish line and through the finish line and on around the track.  LETS DEBATE!  You have something better (SHOW ME WHAT IT IS) or you would surely (being a honest chap) say, "hey,...maybe I don't!"....right?  

Be honest, forget all about Jesus Christ and the Bible and Christianity, the Holy Spirit, the Resurrection and the whole panorama of what doesn't concern you, motivate you, evidence you.  Just give me ATHEIST DOGMA, the food of the atheist, what he lives for and dies for, the pure atheist nectar -  but nothing about God....OK?  

 

NOW...DEBATE PARTICIPANT#2__________________________________________________________________________-

___________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________ 

 


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Hush (Shh) You never saw this post (Shh!)

 

   

  Hush  (Shh)  

             

 

                                             

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQhd05ZVYWg  http://www.americanhumanist.org/Humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_III

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:Be,Well, I

Fonzie wrote:

Be,

Well, I guess I'll have to take that back then.  This is all out debate here and you have laid out the atheist plan, motivation, perspective on life and death (NOT) and even thrown in a little betting.  You just come on and say nobody's changing - but tell me what is so great about atheism that you're not changing from it?  That's not so hard is it?  You guys want to call this a debate but it's anything but a debate because you never tell what makes you tick and why.  You don't show me the atheist "better way".   If you want to make a sure bet it's that there isn't one from your side.

I don't think I have ever accused this thread of being a debate. If there is an atheist "plan" I am not aware of it. Why am I not changing from being an atheist? Because I prefer to deal with reality rather than the imaginary. 

 

Fonzie wrote:

You've got to say we're doing business here...I mean debating (HA).  I tell you why I believe and Who I believe and why and what my basis for understanding life, death the Life that Lives within me through faith in the substitutionary death of the Son of God - saved by the Blood of the Lamb (by grace - actually saved while an enemy).  I've talked about how faith busts through all the doubts and questionings and gaps (some from growth pains and some just not revealed), and faith enables courage based on trust in God Who doesn't change and doesn't let you down.  He is not ashamed of us - whether fisherman, prostitute, sinful despised cast off estranged, whatever.  Our King of Kings has won the hearts of His kingdom by giving His Life's blood for us.  That motivates me 24-7, etc., etc.,etc.

If your delusions motivate you I am not going to say you should get rid of them. 

 

Fonzie wrote:

Now... it's your turn.  Don't comment on my theist view and don't come on and tell me what's wrong with it - it doesn't concern you.  You don't believe it.  You have something better.  No ridicule, no anti-faith, no anti-Christ - instead, just spell out and lay out your atheist answer to life and death and that which empowers you to the finish line and through the finish line and on around the track.  

I don't pretend there is some secret answer to life and death. You live and one day you will die, enjoy the ride and try not to mess up others peoples lives. There is a lot of fascinating questions about life and how it works and from time to time I enjoy indulging my curiosity and learning about them, but I know that my life is short and I will die never fully understanding how everything works. I'm fine with that, I don't need to feel like I can answer every question, especially since it is so much fun learning something new every day.   

 

Fonzie wrote:

LETS DEBATE!  You have something better (SHOW ME WHAT IT IS) or you would surely (being a honest chap) say, "hey,...maybe I don't!"....right?

I don't pretend to have something better, only reality, I am content to leave it to you to decide whether you want to live with accepting reality or if you wish to maintain your faith in a non-existent being. As long as you don't attempt to use any coercion I could not care less what crazy things you believe in.  

 

Fonzie wrote:

Be honest, forget all about Jesus Christ and the Bible and Christianity, the Holy Spirit, the Resurrection and the whole panorama of what doesn't concern you, motivate you, evidence you.  Just give me ATHEIST DOGMA, the food of the atheist, what he lives for and dies for, the pure atheist nectar -  but nothing about God....OK?  

Atheist dogma? No such thing. In case you haven't noticed atheists are an extraordinarily diverse bunch and most of us don't insist that everyone should live like we do or for the same reasons. Personally, I enjoy waking up in the morning and doing whatever I feel like doing and not knowing what I am going to do tomorrow. My motivations change from day to day and some days I am not the slightest bit motivated to do anything. I don't think I need anything to live "for", life is amazing and worth living for its own sake. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Sorry for the broken link (it was working last night) . .

 #3325

  (Edit :: Sorry for the broken link it was working fine a couple of days back and even  last night. You can maybe catch a re-run on the ScienceChannel, sorry 'they' pulled the plug today, if I had known I wouldnt have posted it.)


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(Poe)

Despite the Old Troll's history of mendicancy, the Snow Wolf of Free Enterprise thought --optimistically-- that the free exchange of ideas would lead to mutual profit. 

But the Troll had no interest in generating intellectual capital.  It could only exploit the benevolence of others for Its own welfare.


At any rate, it was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's output:

 

Quote:
I don't think I have ever accused this thread of being a debate. If there is an atheist "plan" I am not aware of it. Why am I not changing from being an atheist? Because I prefer to deal with reality rather than the imaginary.

I don't think I have ever accused atheists of having a game plan, and now you've admitted it.  I prefer to deal with the real jesus and his real plan for me, rather than the imaginary atheistic non-plan.

 

Quote:
If your delusions motivate you I am not going to say you should get rid of them.

I have no delusions, since god proves himself to me 24/7, even if I can't prove that to you.  How do your delusions of nothing motivate you?

 

Quote:
I don't pretend there is some secret answer to life and death. You live and one day you will die, enjoy the ride and try not to mess up others peoples lives. There is a lot of fascinating questions about life and how it works and from time to time I enjoy indulging my curiosity and learning about them, but I know that my life is short and I will die never fully understanding how everything works. I'm fine with that, I don't need to feel like I can answer every question, especially since it is so much fun learning something new every day.

jesus is the answer to life and that is no secret, no matter how much you pretend.  With jesus you live and don't die, and enjoy the eternal Joy Ride in heaven.  With jesus I learn the same thing every day, and I'm fine with that because jesus is the answer to every question.

 

Quote:
Atheist dogma? No such thing. In case you haven't noticed atheists are an extraordinarily diverse bunch and most of us don't insist that everyone should live like we do or for the same reasons. Personally, I enjoy waking up in the morning and doing whatever I feel like doing and not knowing what I am going to do tomorrow. My motivations change from day to day and some days I am not the slightest bit motivated to do anything. I don't think I need anything to live "for", life is amazing and worth living for its own sake. 

Yes, there are an extraordinarily diverse bunch of ways to believe in nothing.  I enjoy waking up and doing what jesus tells me to do.  My motivations don't change because jesus doesn't change. 

 

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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100% ZARATHUSTRA WITH NO GUILE

zarathustra wrote:

Despite the Old Troll's history of mendicancy, the Snow Wolf of Free Enterprise thought --optimistically-- that the free exchange of ideas would lead to mutual profit. 

But the Troll had no interest in generating intellectual capital.  It could only exploit the benevolence of others for Its own welfare.


At any rate, it was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's output:

 

Quote:
I don't think I have ever accused this thread of being a debate. If there is an atheist "plan" I am not aware of it. Why am I not changing from being an atheist? Because I prefer to deal with reality rather than the imaginary.

I don't think I have ever accused atheists of having a game plan, and now you've admitted it.  I prefer to deal with the real jesus and his real plan for me, rather than the imaginary atheistic non-plan.

 

Quote:
If your delusions motivate you I am not going to say you should get rid of them.

I have no delusions, since god proves himself to me 24/7, even if I can't prove that to you.  How do your delusions of nothing motivate you?

 

Quote:
I don't pretend there is some secret answer to life and death. You live and one day you will die, enjoy the ride and try not to mess up others peoples lives. There is a lot of fascinating questions about life and how it works and from time to time I enjoy indulging my curiosity and learning about them, but I know that my life is short and I will die never fully understanding how everything works. I'm fine with that, I don't need to feel like I can answer every question, especially since it is so much fun learning something new every day.

jesus is the answer to life and that is no secret, no matter how much you pretend.  With jesus you live and don't die, and enjoy the eternal Joy Ride in heaven.  With jesus I learn the same thing every day, and I'm fine with that because jesus is the answer to every question.

 

Quote:
Atheist dogma? No such thing. In case you haven't noticed atheists are an extraordinarily diverse bunch and most of us don't insist that everyone should live like we do or for the same reasons. Personally, I enjoy waking up in the morning and doing whatever I feel like doing and not knowing what I am going to do tomorrow. My motivations change from day to day and some days I am not the slightest bit motivated to do anything. I don't think I need anything to live "for", life is amazing and worth living for its own sake. 

Yes, there are an extraordinarily diverse bunch of ways to believe in nothing.  I enjoy waking up and doing what jesus tells me to do.  My motivations don't change because jesus doesn't change. 

 

 

 

Mr or Mrs or Ms Zarathustra:

You didn't understand.  Leave me totally out of it.  Just tell why you like atheism.  Don't relate it to mocking Jesus or Christianity or God or me, ("the troll).  You are an individual, right, totally independent of me (the "troll) God, Jesus, faith in things you don't have faith in, the Holy Spirit, etc., etc.?  

So, you are a thinking guy or girl - are you not?  Atheists are thinkers and individuals, real people, right? What is it that motivates you, Zarathusta that only relates to atheism?  You have a "reality" you are living in, right?  I'm asking you to share your reality.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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DEMOLITIONISTS NOT BUILDERS

danatemporary wrote:

 #3325

  (Edit :: Sorry for the broken link it was working fine a couple of days back and even  last night. You can maybe catch a re-run on the ScienceChannel, sorry 'they' pulled the plug today, if I had known I wouldnt have posted it.)

 

Danatemporary,

More than the link is broken.  

No atheist has brought forth any building force or plan to the land of the living.  I'm beginning to think the atheists are not thinkers - or at least not honest with themselves.  

If they have nothing to offer - why won't they leave atheism?  courage?  

 

 

 


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 Well Zarathustra, I should

 Well Zarathustra, I should say you would have hit the nail on the head had Fonzie chosen to respond. Instead he opted for the time honored troll tactic of ignore and then claim no one has answered. 

 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Fonzie wrote: I'm beginning

Fonzie wrote:

 I'm beginning to think the atheists are not thinkers - or at least not honest with themselves.  

lol

 

Fonzie wrote:

If they have nothing to offer - why won't they leave atheism?  courage?   

For the same reason I don't use shrooms or lsd. I prefer to live with an understanding of reality. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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 The only reason I'm

 The only reason I'm posting this is because it makes me happy to be the 3333rd comment.

 

carry on.


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SO WHAT UNDERSTANDING OF REALITY DO YOU HAVE FAITH IN?

Beyond Saving wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

 I'm beginning to think the atheists are not thinkers - or at least not honest with themselves.  

lol

 

Fonzie wrote:

If they have nothing to offer - why won't they leave atheism?  courage?   

For the same reason I don't use shrooms or lsd. I prefer to live with an understanding of reality. 

 

 

Be,

 

But what is the understanding of reality that you have faith in?   And you don't need to reference the One I have faith in BTW.  

 

 

 

 

 


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 Did anyone notice that my

 Did anyone notice that my last post was the 3333rd post on 12/12/12 at 3.12 (British time anyway)?

I think this is the most interesting thing that's happened on this thread in the last 4 years.

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:Be, But what

Fonzie wrote:

Be,

 

But what is the understanding of reality that you have faith in?   And you don't need to reference the One I have faith in BTW.  

I don't have faith, or an understanding of reality.

I believe what is most likely based on the evidence that is available. If I don't know something or can't explain something it falls into two categories- either I don't care or I am curious. If I don't care I go on with my life. If I am curious I research it, find some evidence and come to a conclusion that is consistent with that evidence. I think it would be a rather bold claim to say I have an understanding of reality. There are many things I don't have an understanding of in reality. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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GodsUseForAMosquito

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 Did anyone notice that my last post was the 3333rd post on 12/12/12 at 3.12 (British time anyway)?

I think this is the most interesting thing that's happened on this thread in the last 4 years.

 

 

Which means you were three hours late. Hmmm, 3333rd 3 hours late.... I think Dan Brown has the topic of his next novel. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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 But just think - in Seoul

 But just think - in Seoul and Santiago it would have been spot on...

Coincidence? no way dude, the planets are in alignment on this one..

 


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HOW HAS IT WORKED?

Beyond Saving wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Be,

 

But what is the understanding of reality that you have faith in?   And you don't need to reference the One I have faith in BTW.  

I don't have faith, or an understanding of reality.

I believe what is most likely based on the evidence that is available. If I don't know something or can't explain something it falls into two categories- either I don't care or I am curious. If I don't care I go on with my life. If I am curious I research it, find some evidence and come to a conclusion that is consistent with that evidence. I think it would be a rather bold claim to say I have an understanding of reality. There are many things I don't have an understanding of in reality. 

 

Be, 

 

Could you give a specific example of this successfully bringing you to a conclusion on something?  I understand you're an atheist so you could hopefully forgo that one and show me your process and conclusion on something else - or more than one would be great.    

 

 

 

___________________________________

_________________________________________

_______________________________________________

 

......I didn't think so.  The only conclusion I have seen the atheist have in three dimensions is that he has a better idea than God (peppered with the usual blasphemy and mockery).  The atheist is fooling himself IMO, and confronted with his own argument of fact - what evidence does he have that his path or his view of reality is right?  The evidence for his better idea doesn't exist.  His faith is not in a working reality like he says, but a dream he thinks he might evolve over time he doesn't have.

He thinks he is destroying something and mistakes himself for a builder.... 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:Beyond Saving

Fonzie wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Be,

 

But what is the understanding of reality that you have faith in?   And you don't need to reference the One I have faith in BTW.  

I don't have faith, or an understanding of reality.

I believe what is most likely based on the evidence that is available. If I don't know something or can't explain something it falls into two categories- either I don't care or I am curious. If I don't care I go on with my life. If I am curious I research it, find some evidence and come to a conclusion that is consistent with that evidence. I think it would be a rather bold claim to say I have an understanding of reality. There are many things I don't have an understanding of in reality. 

 

Be, 

 

Could you give a specific example of this successfully bringing you to a conclusion on something?  I understand you're an atheist so you could hopefully forgo that one and show me your process and conclusion on something else - or more than one would be great.    

 

 

 

___________________________________

_________________________________________

_______________________________________________

 

......I didn't think so.  The only conclusion I have seen the atheist have in three dimensions is that he has a better idea than God (peppered with the usual blasphemy and mockery).  The atheist is fooling himself IMO, and confronted with his own argument of fact - what evidence does he have that his path or his view of reality is right?  The evidence for his better idea doesn't exist.  His faith is not in a working reality like he says, but a dream he thinks he might evolve over time he doesn't have.

He thinks he is destroying something and mistakes himself for a builder.... 

???? Talking to yourself now?  Specific example? Here try for yourself. Pick up a ball, drop it. It will fall to the floor. Jump. You will fall to the floor. You can do it a million times and every time you will get the same result, that is called evidence. Then once you have a good collection of evidence you create a hypothesis that is consistent with all of the available evidence.

Furthermore, I can do some reading and learn that shockingly I am not the only human on the planet to notice this phenomenon. Many brilliant minds have studied it and attempted to explain it. The current accepted theory is that things will fall because of gravity. Although the exact calculation of gravity has been a challenge as Newton's original formula isn't perfectly accurate, which led to people much smarter than me creating new theories. Gravitational theory has actually changed quite a bit since Newton first discovered it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gravitational_theory The beauty of science is that scientists update their theories as new information becomes available. Unlike your bible which when proven to be wrong, remains wrong. 

Conclusion: For my purposes, exactly how gravity works isn't vital, what is important to me is that gravity is part of reality and if I jump out the window right now I will fall and probably hurt myself. I can state with a significant amount of confidence that no invisible being is making the decision of whether to push me to the ground or hold me in the air since no person in the history of the world has credible evidence that such a thing has ever happened.  

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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MOVING RIGHT ALONG BUT CAREFUL SO AS TO AVOID FALLING

Beyond Saving wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Be,

 

But what is the understanding of reality that you have faith in?   And you don't need to reference the One I have faith in BTW.  

I don't have faith, or an understanding of reality.

I believe what is most likely based on the evidence that is available. If I don't know something or can't explain something it falls into two categories- either I don't care or I am curious. If I don't care I go on with my life. If I am curious I research it, find some evidence and come to a conclusion that is consistent with that evidence. I think it would be a rather bold claim to say I have an understanding of reality. There are many things I don't have an understanding of in reality. 

 

Be, 

 

Could you give a specific example of this successfully bringing you to a conclusion on something?  I understand you're an atheist so you could hopefully forgo that one and show me your process and conclusion on something else - or more than one would be great.    

 

 

 

___________________________________

_________________________________________

_______________________________________________

 

......I didn't think so.  The only conclusion I have seen the atheist have in three dimensions is that he has a better idea than God (peppered with the usual blasphemy and mockery).  The atheist is fooling himself IMO, and confronted with his own argument of fact - what evidence does he have that his path or his view of reality is right?  The evidence for his better idea doesn't exist.  His faith is not in a working reality like he says, but a dream he thinks he might evolve over time he doesn't have.

He thinks he is destroying something and mistakes himself for a builder.... 

???? Talking to yourself now?  Specific example? Here try for yourself. Pick up a ball, drop it. It will fall to the floor. Jump. You will fall to the floor. You can do it a million times and every time you will get the same result, that is called evidence. Then once you have a good collection of evidence you create a hypothesis that is consistent with all of the available evidence.

Furthermore, I can do some reading and learn that shockingly I am not the only human on the planet to notice this phenomenon. Many brilliant minds have studied it and attempted to explain it. The current accepted theory is that things will fall because of gravity. Although the exact calculation of gravity has been a challenge as Newton's original formula isn't perfectly accurate, which led to people much smarter than me creating new theories. Gravitational theory has actually changed quite a bit since Newton first discovered it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gravitational_theory The beauty of science is that scientists update their theories as new information becomes available. Unlike your bible which when proven to be wrong, remains wrong. 

Conclusion: For my purposes, exactly how gravity works isn't vital, what is important to me is that gravity is part of reality and if I jump out the window right now I will fall and probably hurt myself. I can state with a significant amount of confidence that no invisible being is making the decision of whether to push me to the ground or hold me in the air since no person in the history of the world has credible evidence that such a thing has ever happened.  

 

 

Be,

Couldn't help throwing in a slander to the Bible could you, whatever.  Habits are habits, but the atheist has surely moved on from disdain of the Bible.  He has surely totally dismissed it and isn't even remotely concerned about what he regards as irrelevant.  

We understand that and have that documented here and now just want the atheist to reveal the inner thinking, the discerning, and very simply the "what a wonderful life" of the atheist all alone, not bothered with Scripture, simply attending to the business of "climbing every mountain" (carefully) and "fording every stream" (staying dry) and doing it the atheist way unplugged.  

I would think you were also bored with the gravity conclusion by kindergarten, so if we could move on to the array that faces every man.  Maybe you're too afraid of grand worshipful atheists' critical eye to branch out beyond gravity to show how atheism applies to life between 5 am and 5 am that doesn't fit under the convenient but faithful force of gravity.  Avoid falling, got it, careful when cleaning the gutter.  I'll give you one of my evidenced conclusions BTW - fear of man is a trap.  

So how have you gathered evidence and come to conclusions about knowing and understanding other people?  Isn't it hard to gather evidence from just what you see? How do you KNOW what's behind the "green door" so to speak, the "unseen" and "un-evidenced" other man?  Doesn't it become a faith thing to be tested and refined?  

Have you had faith in people for instance with respect to honesty only to find out your evidence was faulty?  We know how to figure the acceleration of gravity, yes, but where do you get the 32 sec/sec formula for honesty and the input for the unknowns?

And how do you gather evidence to conclude what is right and wrong?  And do you think there is a standard that can be found though hidden?  If you find evidence of it then does it apply to others?  And isn't this cumbersome?  

When you go to an unknown place do you like to get a map or just drive around until you find what you're looking for?  Isn't a lot of life an unknown place?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:Have you had

Fonzie wrote:

Have you had faith in people for instance with respect to honesty only to find out your evidence was faulty?

Absolutely: I have realized many of the theists on this board are far less honest than I originally thought. However, it was not the evidence, but the conclusion, that was faulty. My initial assumption of their honesty was based on insufficient evidence. Furthermore, upon acquiring further evidence, I revised said assumption almost immediately.

 

Fonzie wrote:

Isn't it hard to gather evidence from just what you see?...Doesn't it become a faith thing to be tested and refined?

Yes, gathering enough evidence to make a justified conclusion is often both difficult and time-consuming. It's worth the effort, though, as your conclusion is significantly more likely to be correct.

Oh, if you replace "faith thing" with "hypothesis/assumption", you'll have a very generalized version of the scientific method.

 

Fonzie wrote:

where do you get the 32 sec/sec formula for honesty and the input for the unknowns

Google search "human social interaction" and see if anyone's written a very well-rated book about it?

 

Fonzie wrote:

And how do you gather evidence to conclude what is right and wrong?  And do you think there is a standard that can be found though hidden?  If you find evidence of it then does it apply to others?

You gather evidence using your senses. The standard is reality itself.

 


zarathustra
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It was still quite easy to duplicate the Troll's output:

Quote:
I have realized many of the theists on this board are far less honest than I originally thought. However, it was not the evidence, but the conclusion, that was faulty. My initial assumption of their honesty was based on insufficient evidence. Furthermore, upon acquiring further evidence, I revised said assumption almost immediately.

Your assumption that god does not exist is based on insufficient evidence.  If you don't accept jesus, your evidence will always be insufficient.

 

Quote:
Yes, gathering enough evidence to make a justified conclusion is often both difficult and time-consuming. It's worth the effort, though, as your conclusion is significantly more likely to be correct.

Oh, if you replace "faith thing" with "hypothesis/assumption", you'll have a very generalized version of the scientific method.

I am not worried about "time-consuming" when god offers me eternity.  Why would I replace faith in jesus with a generalized version of anything, when I already have the Truth?

 

Quote:
You gather evidence using your senses. The standard is reality itself.

You need to hone your jesus sense then, because I sense the Reality of jesus with 20/20 vision.

 

There are no theists on operating tables.

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blacklight915
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zarathustra wrote:Your

zarathustra wrote:

Your assumption that god does not exist is based on insufficient evidence.  If you don't accept jesus, your evidence will always be insufficient.

I am not worried about "time-consuming" when god offers me eternity.  Why would I replace faith in jesus with a generalized version of anything, when I already have the Truth?

You need to hone your jesus sense then, because I sense the Reality of jesus with 20/20 vision.

Lololol    You sound EXACTLY like Fonzie. How do you mimic him with such accuracy?

 


Fonzie
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THE FAITH FUNCTION AT THE JUNCTION

blacklight915 wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Have you had faith in people for instance with respect to honesty only to find out your evidence was faulty?

Absolutely: I have realized many of the theists on this board are far less honest than I originally thought. However, it was not the evidence, but the conclusion, that was faulty. My initial assumption of their honesty was based on insufficient evidence. Furthermore, upon acquiring further evidence, I revised said assumption almost immediately.

 

Fonzie wrote:

Isn't it hard to gather evidence from just what you see?...Doesn't it become a faith thing to be tested and refined?

Yes, gathering enough evidence to make a justified conclusion is often both difficult and time-consuming. It's worth the effort, though, as your conclusion is significantly more likely to be correct.

Oh, if you replace "faith thing" with "hypothesis/assumption", you'll have a very generalized version of the scientific method.

 

Fonzie wrote:

where do you get the 32 sec/sec formula for honesty and the input for the unknowns

Google search "human social interaction" and see if anyone's written a very well-rated book about it?

 

Fonzie wrote:

And how do you gather evidence to conclude what is right and wrong?  And do you think there is a standard that can be found though hidden?  If you find evidence of it then does it apply to others?

You gather evidence using your senses. The standard is reality itself.

 

 

 

BL,

Call it what you want we (mankind) HAVE to use faith in order to function elemetric to geriatric - A to Z, blink to blink, think to think.  You atheists seem to deludedly dream you are getting objective input to your servos like robots - and basically the only "real thing moving" out there on the earth.  You have made fine hypocrites of yourselves - breathing and using God's gifts to rail against God and having faith in your having no faith while you walk, talk, tick, tock, rock, shtick, mock - faith (it's quite a phenomenon).  

So while you badmouth faith you live and breath it - only it's with a shaky focus,  trying hard to not think about what you're thinking about (the crack and pop of the thin ice of your frozen bubble of pride in your own impression of yourself - the real, the proud, the rational, the wittier by half).  The self esteem of the atheist is several plates to keep spinning - and all and each a confused tail chasing attack on God and believers and thoughts that feed on themselves and go nowhere.  (there's something in there for you Zara)

The faith I have in the Rock is solid.  I have tried the Gold by fire (you might say scientific method) and thrown out dross several times - (revised my assumption), (refined my understanding).  The Gold however remains Gold and it's not Gold I have created or what you scientists have as "fool's gold", and it's not "gold" you atheists have that doesn't exist.

I am building faith upon proven faith - I am using a measuring rod and plumb line to check my work - not "feelings", and it's not my bureau of standards marking out the line.  Though these THINGS of God are concealed (to the glory of God) from men (mankind) who intentionally deny it of themselves and blaspheme with a high hand I have a continual feast of IT and exciting new discovery in IT.   LG

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:deludedly dream

Fonzie wrote:

deludedly dream you are getting objective input to your servos like robots

So, reality isn't objective?

 

Fonzie wrote:

You have made fine hypocrites of yourselves

And you've made a fine ass of yourself with all the lies you've told on this board.

 

Fonzie wrote:

it's quite a phenomenon

Indeed! The dishonesty and willful ignorance some theists display never fails to astound me...

 

Fonzie wrote:

So while you badmouth faith you live and breath it

I criticize faith only when it impairs people's ability to discern fact from fiction.

 

Fonzie wrote:

The faith I have in the Rock is solid.

Oh, I have no doubt your delusions are unshakable.

 

Fonzie wrote:

who intentionally deny it of themselves and blaspheme

LOL, you think all atheists are lying when they tell you they don't think your God is real?

 


Vastet
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Apologies for the

Apologies for the delay...

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Absolutely correct. It was here. If there is a way to search on oldest posts they should be there commenting on it. As to special, no more special than Chrisitans and deserving of no less disdain than Christians. Of course as we say about the West Bank, were it nor for antisemitism that would be Apartheid.

There is a way, which I used before even asking the question. I checked the first few months of your posting history, which doesn't support your assertion. If you were banned, here, then, you made absolutely no issue of it at all, and somehow continued posting despite the ban. Your first posts didn't even mention jews or the middle east, let alone see you banned for discussion on the subject.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/user/anonymouse/track?page=20

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Fonzie
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FAITHFUL SELF-DELUDING OBJECTIVE IMPRESSIONABILITY

blacklight915 wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

deludedly dream you are getting objective input to your servos like robots

So, reality isn't objective?

 

There is an objective reality but neither yours nor my perception of it is necessarily objective.  Is the news necessarily objective?  Is history necessarily objective?  Do you say you are going around only responding to life objectively?

blacklight915 wrote:
 

 

Fonzie wrote:

You have made fine hypocrites of yourselves

And you've made a fine ass of yourself with all the lies you've told on this board.

 

Ok, lay out the objective lies that I've told on this board.  I was kicked off the board due to irritation of Deluded God in "What Faith You" as Mephibosheth concerning my ridicule of the idea of a few old men on "The Beagle", old men probably with egg in their beard (this is an objective possibility), and possibly old men who forgot to zip their pants (this is objectively possible unless the zipper wasn't invented at the time they convinced themselves that they had figured out how the world evolved rather than being created).  It would appear by raising that objective possibility that brings a deluded impression of a few old men down to the "real- ville" that atheists claim to live in caused his servo to hit my eject button.  There's no lie here, BL.  

Then I re-registered from Mephibosheth to Fonzie.  I mentioned some similar things as before, I'm not ashamed of those things.  I knew they would be recognized - but there is a difference between lying and simply not answering a question BL.  I just didn't answer the question for a while.  Actually I didn't show atheists' intelligence the disrespect of answering it - it was obvious.  Why should I second-grade the atheist?  Maybe you didn't know all this and you're just repeating what you think is objective but instead expresses the faith you have in other fellow faith-breathing objective self labeling atheists who say they believe nothing unobjective.  

So if there is an objective lie BL that you have detected by your scientific method and readjusted your assumptions with why don't you lay it out in a scientific report complete with appendix and documentation.  

There isn't.  You won't.  

blacklight915 wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

it's quite a phenomenon

Indeed! The dishonesty and willful ignorance some theists display never fails to astound me...

 

I think this is an example of what you atheists call a "straw man" you have created to then pull straws out of?  It's handy use of the "high grass", no?  

Here in your straw man notice you have left your self-delusion of objectivity to "take off" into the "wild blue yonder" of "motive".  You don't have an objective read on the pulse of the will do you there, BL?  

And not only are you astounded, you ALWAYS have the same reaction?  What a consistent picture you paint here of your reaction to objective input and the resulting dynamic - servo - robotic - response!  

Here's what I believe:  The Only One Who can objectively use the word, "ALL" - as in "The end of the matter, All has been heard" - is God.  This is reasonable because He didn't create a world He can't manage.  it is written, "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My thoughts than your thoughts."  You and I don't know how much we have seen of anything nor do we know the sum.  

blacklight915 wrote:
  

 

Fonzie wrote:

So while you badmouth faith you live and breath it

I criticize faith only when it impairs people's ability to discern fact from fiction.

This is a disadvantage of mankind, BL.  We are all impaired.  Just because you say you don't believe anything you can't prove doesn't exempt you.  You can't even prove you are trying to do what you say in this.  I would have to have faith in you to believe you are even trying.  How can you impart objectivity?  You see people that believe what you like so you make them a rest along the way for your own delusion and do the opposite for those you don't.  

blacklight915 wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

The faith I have in the Rock is solid.

Oh, I have no doubt your delusions are unshakable.

BL, you have no doubts because you have faith in your own delusions from which you are getting your objective readout.

blacklight915 wrote:

 

Fonzie wrote:

who intentionally deny it of themselves and blaspheme

LOL, you think all atheists are lying when they tell you they don't think your God is real?

It is written, "...For what is known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.  Ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature, namely His eternal power and deity has been clearly perceived in the things that have  been made.  So they are without excuse; for although they knew God they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened...."  I think they are lying to themselves about their position, yes.  They may be down the road so far they have forgotten who told it to them or how they got there or where they are.  But yes.  

 

 

 

 


zarathustra
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The Troll gnashed Its gums with indignance.  What It claimed were but little white lies, glared with harsh dishonesty when held under a black light.  

Hoping to deceive the good, little children, It conveniently rewrote the "necessarily objective news" of years before:

Quote:
Meph, I have excellent news for you.

In review of the content of this thread over the last 8 months, I have called a moderator panel to discuss your actions. The reason for doing this is because your behavior clearly fits the behavior pattern that on internet forums is identified as "trolling". If you wish to find more about this wonderful label, you may do so on Wikipedia. Anyway, moderators unaffiliated with this thread (ie, are not involved in the discussion in this thread) have stated that given that I have given you multiple warnings about not contributing to the discussion and refusing to argue with your interlocutors or address their points, your thread is wasting colossal bandwidth and this means, to put it nicely, you are a waste of space, and the moderators explicitly stated that based on your actions and the associated repeated warnings, I am within every right under the rules of this forum to ban you immediately.

Now, I do not wish to ban you immediately because I find this exercise amusing in a sadistic sort of way. However, if you do not address your interlocutors (read: me) properly in your next post by addressing their arguments, (read: the long post which you ignored), then I shall have no choice but to ban you. Your existence here serves no purpose other than to humiliate yourself and your inability to argue. It was this that kept your thread alive for the last 8 months. The moderators (especially me) felt that you were so phenomenally stupid that you made us look very good by comparison so we kept this alive for laughs. However, with the exceeding of 1000 posts, the overwhelming redundancy of this demonstration has convinced us that your account should be terminated immediately. Unfortunately, there is no forum rule against stupidity. That is not the charge on which we made the decision. Trolling, however, is explicitly against the forum rules and there has been unanimous concensus that this is precisely what you are doing. As I have stated before, I shall take into account your next post, and the no doubt wonderfully eloquent and debate-worthy content it shall produce...or not. Be aware that it is within my power to terminate your account and I shall not be abusing any moderator privelages in doing so, in fact, I have exercised great patience in not doing so despite being given explicit permission to do so at least six months ago, and I shall shed no tears over the death of this thread, so perhaps you ought to make this next post one of fair quality.

 

It remained to be seen whether the good, little children would continue tossing pabulum into Its gaping maws, or leave the Troll to take Its medicine.

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
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blacklight915
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Fonzie wrote:There is an

Fonzie wrote:

There is an objective reality but neither yours nor my perception of it is necessarily objective.

Yes!  Sensation is objective; perception is not.  Now, since I never claimed that my perception of reality is objective, I'm going to ignore the parts of your post that assume I did.

 

Fonzie wrote:

There isn't.  You won't.

You're right! I'm not going to take the time to point out your lies--it's already been done!  Several times too, I think...

 

Fonzie wrote:

And not only are you astounded, you ALWAYS have the same reaction?

Yes, I am ALWAYS astounded by SOME of the things SOME theists do. There's more than one way to react in an astounded manner, you know...

 

Fonzie wrote:

Just because you say you don't believe anything you can't prove doesn't exempt you.

Show me where I ever said that.

 

Fonzie wrote:

I think they are lying to themselves about their position, yes.  They may be down the road so far they have forgotten who told it to them or how they got there or where they are.  But yes.

Fascinating. Do you think atheists are fully aware they are lying to themselves and others?