It works for me!
Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
Photo above is from the USA Supreme Court Door. It seems that our forefathers of this great country thought the 10 Commandments were a good foundation to build on. Suggesting that the decalogue is secular morality is an interesting concept. Are you suggesting that if you were ruler for a day you would have come up with at least 6 of these (5-10)?
I have avoided posting on this tread for a long time, but I got bored and started to thumb through it. I couldn't help but respond to this old message.
1 - Those are not the ten commandments
2 - They are the original 10 bill of rights of the constitution
Proof of this is in the design work from the original artists.
3 - The forefathers (washington, jefferson, etc) were all six feet under when this building was erected in 1935.
Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.
Quote:I am too tired right now but will try to answer you anyway ..
ATTN Mr Fonzerelli
Fonzie wrote : Danatempory,
So do you believe your apology was adequate? And do you believe blacklight accepts? And what do you believe you should do if you don't believe he does? And do you believe Brian hates faith - things that can't be proved? And can you prove any of these things you believe yet claiming to be the fellowship of unbelievers?
I can tell you Any. is wrong on his "facts" BTW. But do you believe him anyway since he doesn't believe anything? And do you believe Fly's view of Christianity? Do you go find somebody who believes he believed something but now believes he doesn't and believe their view of it? Is that the way you establish what and who you believe then say you are an unbeliever?
I can only imagine the joys of being a part of this atheist bunch who fool themselves into thinking they believe what they can't prove even though
. You might think I am kidding/fibbing but there's a newly opened up Thread about an 'Atheist's defense of the Bible', havent read any of it but it is more than likely suggesting it better off in the olden days, not everyone start a local biblestudy in their area. Not playing well, havent read it. This board is always got its' surprises. Another Thread is by an Atheist who is reading Catholic Church fathers not kidding/fibbing either. So Fonzie still doesnt know what he's missing. I wanted to mention this to point out Nony brought up the third temple and temple mount And I can honestly attest the article was much longer than you'd find on your christian forums. Being on the best board on the net colors the glasses a bountiful shade of rose pink for me at times. You are just happy to be here and so relieved at the environment it makes you appreciate everyone on the board in a way. Getting back to what you asked about giving people who believed something and now dont believe something is. For me, Before I forget, What you say in derision, I consider the greatest joy, I do. I think, from your perspective, There is only the narrowest set of 'beliefs' everyone one 'shares'. Outside of that the diversity is unimaginable. What you specifically asked: Why not give you a partial list of people who were former christians and now sail under the proud banner of Atheist. Off the top of my head users like : iwbiek (fundementalist/liberal christian), tonyjeffers (evangelical), Atheistextermist (Protestant), ex-minister (protestant), harleysporters (Roman Catholic), pauljohntheskeptic (liberal Catholic), ThunderJones (Protestant), Watcher (Fundementalist), Zeeboe (raised something), Prozacdeathwish (fundementalist), Old Seer (sort of) Brian says is a theist, so she's a theist, Cpt_pineapple (deist), Cj (Protestant) Gauche (unknown) GodsUseForAMosquito(unknown) and A_Nony_Mouse (havent asked Nony ever) about a full dozen others I am too sleepy to remember. All of which are a joy. They all took the journey to belief to full on unbelievers. The standard reply is they were never Theists. That is the biggest lie out. You sit in and listen and you can hear the years of devotion and service and 'faith' they had. Everyone has his or her own cliche in our board's ecosystem. I do apologize but Im way too tired to go on I'm needing some sleep. I hope that answers part of what you want. I feel if you comment on my remarks in the way you just did. Maybe about three or four others can talk with you. My Grandpa told me a few months before he died, the last neighbors he or I should say 'we' had were the best he had ever had. Well, This board is the absolute best board on the internet hands down, nothing compares with it. I should say I have been on dozens of boards for usually a few months at the most (if that). Likewise. my Grandpa had moved a lot in various places in his lifetime. So, 'we' both have other points of reference to compare something against. Finally, I think if you keep asking the same questions over and over, it indicates you dont have a very good handle on Atheism to start with and you insist on making based like a faith and a belief for the 'Atheistic religion', hmm? This cannot be making much sense but after four years maybe you'll buy a book or something to aid the trouble in conceptualizing.
Everyone tells me Catholics and Protestants love Shakespeare , so please
allow me to share some from Henry the V then
The Play Henry V ( quote, impossible to choose only one)
O ceremony, show me but thy worth!
What is thy soul of adoration?
Art thou aught else but place, degree and form,
Creating awe and fear in other men?
Wherein thou art less happy being fear'd
Than they in fearing.
What drink'st thou oft, instead of homage sweet,
But poison'd flattery? O, be sick, great greatness,
And bid thy ceremony give thee cure!
Think'st thou the fiery fever will go out
With titles blown from adulation?
Will it give place to flexure and low bending?
Canst thou, when thou command'st the beggar's knee,
Command the health of it? No, thou proud dream,
That play'st so subtly with a king's repose;
I am a king that find thee,..
So, if a son that is by his father sent about
merchandise do sinfully miscarry upon the sea, the
imputation of his wickedness by your rule, should be
imposed upon his father that sent him: or if a
servant, under his master's command transporting a
sum of money, be assailed by robbers and die in
many irreconciled iniquities, you may call the
business of the master the author of the servant's
damnation: but this is not so: the king is not
bound to answer the particular endings of his
soldiers, the father of his son, nor the master of
his servant; for they purpose not their death, when
they purpose their services.
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
Defy us to our worst: for, as I am a soldier,
A name that in my thoughts becomes me best,
If I begin the battery once again,
I will not leave the half-achieved Harfleur
Till in her ashes she lie buried.
The gates of mercy shall be all shut up,
And the flesh'd soldier, rough and hard of heart,
In liberty of bloody hand shall range
With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass
Your fresh-fair virgins and your flowering infants.
What is it then to me, if impious war,
Array'd in flames like to the prince of fiends,
Do, with his smirch'd complexion, all fell feats
Enlink'd to waste and desolation?
What is't to me, when you yourselves are cause,
If your pure maidens fall into the hand
Of hot and forcing violation?
What rein can hold licentious wickedness
When down the hill he holds his fierce career?
We may as bootless spend our vain command
Upon the enraged soldiers in their spoil
As send precepts to the leviathan
To come ashore. Therefore, you men of Harfleur,
Take pity of your town and of your people,
Whiles yet my soldiers are in my command;
Whiles yet the cool and temperate wind of grace
O'erblows the filthy and contagious clouds
Of heady murder, spoil and villany!!
If not, why, in a moment look to see
The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand
Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;
Your fathers taken by the silver beards,
And their most reverend heads dash'd to the walls,
Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,
Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused
Do break the clouds,.. What say you!?!? Will you
yield, and thus avoid, Or, guilty in defence, be
..when lenity and cruelty play for a kingdom, the
gentler gamester is the soonest winner.
ACT VI Now entertain conjecture of a time
When creeping murmur and the poring dark
Fills the wide vessel of the universe.
From camp to camp through the foul womb of night
The hum of either army stilly sounds,
That the fixed sentinels almost receive
The secret whispers of each other's watch:
Fire answers fire, and through their paly flames
Each battle sees the other's umber'd face;
Steed threatens steed, in high and boastful neighs
Piercing the night's dull ear, and from the tents
The armourers, accomplishing the knights,
With busy hammers closing rivets up,
Give dreadful note of preparation:
The country cocks do crow, the clocks do toll,
And the third hour of drowsy morning name.
Proud of their numbers and secure in soul,
The confident and over-lusty French
Do the low-rated English play at dice;
And chide the cripple tardy-gaited night
Who, like a foul and ugly witch, doth limp
So tediously away. The poor condemned English,
Like sacrifices, by their watchful fires
Sit patiently and inly ruminate
The morning's danger, and their gesture sad
Investing lank-lean; cheeks and war-worn coats
Presenteth them unto the gazing moon
So many horrid ghosts. O now, who will behold
The royal captain of this ruin'd band
Walking from watch to watch, from tent to tent,
Let him cry 'Praise and glory on his head!'
For forth he goes and visits all his host.
Bids them good morrow with a modest smile
And calls them brothers, friends and countrymen.
Upon his royal face there is no note
How dread an army hath enrounded him;
Nor doth he dedicate one jot of colour
Unto the weary and all-watched night,
But freshly looks and over-bears attaint
With cheerful semblance and sweet majesty;
That every wretch, pining and pale before,
Beholding him, plucks comfort from his looks:
A largess universal like the sun
His liberal eye doth give to every one,
Thawing cold fear, that mean and gentle all,
Behold, as may unworthiness define,
A little touch of Harry in the night ..
And far too many to add . .
I have seen evidence atheists are able to think, imagine, type and manage general things. You are adding the concept that they have "principles" and "deep thoughts" about "concepts" that are a match for what the theist says is missing - and the spinning of their tale is off somewhere happening behind the "Green Door" and I don't know what I'm missing. Concepts, principles, deep stuff, exciting stuff, living stuff to die for exciting you like nothing else ever though you are too tired to know the way to the city like a hummingbird coming over the gulf and plummeting down to the last flap exhausted.
But I think what we have here is the accusation (valid) which is drawn, aimed and let fly against false religion (not however living faith in Christ) having become a "form", a "shell", a "veneer" (as you quote also from BS also true about the atheist "form", "shell", "veneer", "front) - "wherefore art you Danatemporary"? Are you in a living breathing atheist body of unbelievers not believing anybody unless they don't believe anybody (does that bring you together and become enough to build a relationship on?), not believing any principle unproven - and which principle is proven? Do you have any proven principles to share, the ABC's of atheism, the 123, the working atheist model (I'm talking other than recess where the straw man Christian is annihilated). If school is on and the teacher is in then go to the blackboard (the other half at your seats) and draw this out for me. What are your principles proven if you have them and how do you prove them without faith?
Brian says he hates faith and instead goes with only things proven. You are delighted, so bring me the fruits of your delight.