It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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I know that you believe that there are no contradictions in the KJV1611, so I had to see how you reconciled these text like you did with that no one in Christ ever sins. I agree with you on that now. Taking the Bible literally you have to conclude that.
In this case the Bible seems to say judgment is a dangerous thing and God will judge you in the same manner you judge others. So if you go around quickly condemning people He will have no choice but to do the same to you. If you call a man a fool then you will be called a fool and be in danger of hell-fire. If you say this one is condemned and that one is condemned you risk the same. But going the other direction and looking at what Jesus said, Judge not, that ye be judged, sounds like if don't go around judging you will not be judged. Would it not be better to tread lightly there and not set yourself above others and let God do the judging for you?
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
Matthew 5:22 (King James Version)
22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
God is very specific here. I have never felt the need to say "Raca" or "thou fool" to anybody. He says nothing about saying "idiot," "imbecile," "stupid idiot," or "retard", now does He? You can say any of these things to anybody for any or no reason, as long as you are not angry.
The reason I know that these verses cannot mean "don't judge" is because, as I have already pointed out, of all these other times the Bible commands us to judge, which I will list here again.
Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Psalm 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
Proverbs 31:9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
God would not tell us to judge others in righteousness, and then say, "don't judge at all!" Then it would be impossible to follow the Bible. That would be a cruel joke, wouldn't it?
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
JcGadfly,
It's interesting that the position you oppose and the position you defend is the very thing (faith) that pleases God. Abram "believed God and He counted it as righteousness". Noah "walked with God". Enoch "walked with God". So you - JcGadfly - DON'T believe in God, ridicule that position of faith in God, and demand proof. But you are proof.
The creation doesn't provide any proof of God's power and glory to you. The gospel message doesn't move you - it seems foolish to you. You have read enough of the Bible you have found things (with your unbelief) that you think are worthy of ridicule, so you carry on with some of that. You are unconcerned about the fact of death and the possibility of judgment if you are wrong in your state of stupor. And I think you view it as a "hand up" you are giving to those who believe in the LORD and say they KNOW HIM to invite them into your fellowship of unbelief and ridicule of the LORD, Scripture (His Written Word) and the Atoning Death of Jesus and the Resurrection and Seal of the Holy Spirit (the gospel, the grace of God).
I think you could honestly say there is hatred in you for Christians and therefore hatred for Christ the Son and God the Father they believe in. But this only fulfills the Scripture, "I will put enmity between your (serpent) seed and the seed (Christ and later those in Christ) of the woman." You, in your fueled hatred for Christ and His people and your disdain for His Salvation which you deem foolishness are actually a confirmation to believers of the truth of Scripture. Plus you proclaim to all the world your own state of, well, let's just call it: "vanity of vanities".
What interests me about this is that you and yours just have this demolition as a common delight and are going at it as if it is an end in itself. You have no plan except assorted bits and pieces, "I believe in" - "integrity and honesty", "It's such a relief to be": "freed from chains of ignorance", "I'm", "making decisions on empirical evidence", and "We will", "die with nothing beyond". So, JcGadfly, you really have nothing to offer beyond your fellowship in trying to throw off what you consider to be the "chains of the Almighty", and the frenzy of it like hyenas on a carcass - they think!
And, I'll grant you; your trying to tear down the kingdom of God could keep you all occupied your whole life and the lives of all who come after you who share that goal. You won't get it done. We have a promise that the "gates of Hell will not prevail against" the LORD's church. I believe this Scripture. You don't. You and yours are destined to fail in your war against Christ and His church. I believe that. I know that. I have no doubts, because God said it. I believe it without proof. It's called faith. But you will prove it's true, JcGadfly - or be changed yourself (could happen). YOU JCGADLY ARE PART OF THE PROOF OF THE INDESTRUCTIBLE CHRIST AND HIS KINGDOM!! You have been made for a purpose and you are serving a purpose of one thing or another.
Do I hate Christians? No.
Do I hate what they do while trumpeting their faith? That's more likely.
Should I not hate the actions of a pedophile priest who is "helping" an altar boy get to heaven by making the child ride his penis?
Should I not have hated Ted Haggard's bashing of homosexuals while he was smoking meth with a gay prostitute?
Should I not hate your lying about not attacking people's characters?
Should I not hate the way you ignore questions? How about the way you lie about not getting answers to your questions - should I hate that?
Should I not hate the way you damage your health by popping lithium like Mentos without getting blood tests?
Fonzie, the plan you advocate (believing exactly as you do or face eternal damnation from the God who thinks in lockstep with you) is deserving of destruction.
What you have has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with Paul (and you still have to lie about that). I'm not interested in worshiping Paul - why can't you admit you are?.
I'd say "Thanks for playing" but you don't understand the rules even though you made them up.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Stop pretending to be a complete retard and direct your attention to the following question posed by ex-minister. Since you claim I am not a True Christian and you are, explain to us what a True Christian is supposed to believe, hm?
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
Abram was justified by his faith - before he had done any works. While it's true that a living faith produces works, it isn't a combination of works and faith that justify us. Faith enables us to "grab hold" of the work of Christ and His Atoning Death, overcoming death in His Resurrection and Indestructible Life. Faith would have us look outside ourselves to God the Father in Christ.
We are justified - like Abram - through faith in Jesus Christ. This does not set aside obedience to the Word of God. This faith is not in itself what justifies us; that would be faith "in faith" or another form of "faith in ourselves".
The spotlight is on Jesus Christ throughout the whole Bible and we are told several different times and ways Christ is to be our focus. I'm a poor sinner and nothing at all but Christ is my All in All.
Except that the "Jesus Christ" focused on would have offended Jesus the Nazarene. Paul created a mystery cult and made Jesus into a savior god.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
For the 1759th time, I wonder why "Fonzie" bothers talking to people here, if he has no intention of even noticing their replies.
So you have answered number seven. That leaves nine more to go, Fonzie.
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
anonymouse,
The thing that is continuing is the demolition coalition with nothing beyond. I have described the solid ground my faith is standing on - the Atoning Death of Jesus Christ. The covenant I have with God is made in the midst of the Sacrifice of Christ. You are like a buzzard or kite that came to disturb the sacrifice of Abram. You are easily driven away with a puff of faith. Another example of a bird of prey is that of turning the doctrines of the Bible into a game show of controversy debate. This would be both disrespectful and unprofitable. We who are in Christ KNOW Who we have believed. Faith blesses us with a clearer view of the Sacrifice. It's not debating controversy that will bless our souls but the Atoning Death of Jesus Christ.
You might consider that for the 1759th time you have not given anything of substance to live for or by except your hallucinations of having done so.
Yes it's nice that you have a fanstasy to play out and we do not.
Take out the god factor and an atheist is JUST LIKE YOU, for the umpteenth time. No different really we eat the same food watch the same tv play the same sports have a lot of the same hopes -god stuff. How much clearer could it be made? If this does not satisfy, then ask more specific questions because this is the general answer.
You pretend that if there was no god you would just have to self suicide because there is nothing to live for, and you are likely of that ilk if I think on it just a moment. I have noted that religion, as much as I dislike it, is necessary, not all humans are strong enough to accept reality quite yet.
The argument here is really why some people can accept reality and others can't. We should delve into that a bit.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Again, you're disagreeing with yourself. I have quoted you thanking posters in your threads for their contributions, and expressing your understanding of their views. Either you were lying then, or you're lying now.
I know what you think you described. And that's exactly what prompted me to ask you why you lied to us. It makes no sense for someone who's "standing on solid ground" to be so consistenly and absurdly dishonest.
You have yet to answer that question, so simply repeating something I never even denied makes no sense at all.
Yeah, well, see, that's another thing..: Insulting people really doesn't help you much. It just makes you look scared and aggressive. It also holds no value as an argument, so unless it somehow makes you happy to call people names, I'd advise you to stop doing that.
(In fact, some of your more recent insults to me have been so incredibly vicious, that comparing me to a bird hardly even registers anymore. Try harder)
You are once again conveniently forgetting that what I bring you are your own words. I repeat, your own words.
You want to use your faith to ignore what you yourself have said ? Do I really have to explain why that is not going to work ?
You have already demonstrated that you have no idea whatsoever about what you believe, so that boat has sailed, I'm afraid.
When someone asks you a question about your faith, and you answer "yes", and then you later call it "a question without an answer", then we're no longer wondering about what you believe, but about wether you even understand english or not.
I might do that, sure. But then I would have to ignore the fact that in your first thread, when you asked me about my "product", I answered your question in full.
I'm not so good at ignoring things that are on a screen in front of me as you are, so that might be a problem.
So, why did you lie to us ?
Still wondering...
Fonzie, do you laugh at people who make posts addressed to you, or are you really just oblivious?
P.S. How did you go about getting that Theist Badge? I want one.
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
There's a "do you want a badge thread" around here somewhere. Or just ask one of the mods.
Should be interesting to see if they decide to give you one or not.
("Fonzie" used to have Troll badge as well. If that ever happens to you, just register again under another name, like he did, and you'll be rid of it. Nobody will care)
I think Billy Bob deserves a theist badge, he seems more well versed than most of his christian kin, though for myself the bible is only a "minigame" to play on. Not necessary to make a call on reality.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Billy Bob deserves a "Landover Baptist" badge; he is a specisl kind of person here.
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/
Give Fonzie "hell"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Billy Bob.
While we are on this post, after 36+ pages. can we move Fonzie and the gang over to a newer postal and start over, far fewer pages to read through. It only seems rational!!!!
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
I did not tell you to hurry, I asked why you did not already do that. Please pay attention. And the "living christ" is not a spirit it is not even living, Joshua Bar Yeusuph NEVER existed, it is and always will be a FIGMENT of your highly over active imagination. Good luck with your imaginary friends, I out grew mine over 50 years ago, when I was 5.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Jeffrick (of atheist gold),
As far as what you tell me and what I reply - if the reply was your desired answer it would be what you already have; in fact, you could apply that to what you have in life already. "Hope that is seen is not hope - for who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience." You have the extent already - you don't belong to Christ by your own admission, you don't have the Spirit of God, you are not led by it. You live according to the flesh, you set your mind on the things of the flesh which is death, hostile to God, don't submit to God and don't please God. I have this on sound authority which you do not accept, but which will judge you on the last day. It could happen that you could be changed however by the quickening of the Spirit of God.
To answer your question as to why I do not "already do that" (go ahead and die as you suggest or query); I am in the Spirit now, the Spirit of God lives in me, I belong to Christ - and although my body is dead because of sin my spirit is alive because of Righteousness (not my righteousness, but the Righteousness of God in Christ). By the Spirit I am putting to death the deeds of the body, I am at war constantly - and can look forward to war until death. But the war and the sufferings of now aren't worth comparing to the glory that is to be revealed. Heaven has already started for me - I am enjoying the "first fruits" of the Spirit now. They are "first fruits" because when I receive the redemption of my body and experience adoption as son before God Himself then I will start enjoying "eternal fruit" of the Spirit. I hope for what I don't yet see, in faith - you have what you get already, this is it, unless you repent and believe in Jesus.
You may have noticed how the creation has been subjected to decay and futility. (You just can't stop that rust in its various forms for example) God has subjected the creation to bondage and to decay - not because the creation wanted said subjection, but as punishment resulting from the first Adam's fall, and our fall in him. I wait for what I see now through the eyes of faith, the redemption through the atoning work of the second Adam. The creation will be then set free from its bondage and there will be a glorious liberty the children of God will share. You may laugh at the ark now but when it starts raining you will want on - but then it will be too late. The faith that you attack and mock, faith in Christ, is the very thing you need to be justified before God.
If you came to truly believe in Jesus Christ God would qualify you to be translated from the dominion of darkness to the Kingdom of light - not a republic but a Kingdom with an absolute Monarch in your heart. This is the world's greatest miracle and you could experience it. You could be rescued from darkness: gloom, ignorance, sin's stupor, blindness - and translated into God's great Kingdom of Light. Here's a vexing mystery for you: some men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. How could a man love the spiritual equivalent of solitary confinement in the dark rather than being freed, transferred into the Kingdom of God's Light in Christ?
Abram believed God and God counted it as righteousness. Today faith allows us to "grab hold" of the work Christ did for us in His Atoning Death. So our faith is not in "faith itself" - that would be looking to ourselves, that would be taking some of the glory due God and Christ. Our faith allows us to look outside ourselves to God in His Sacrifice, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world. This is all foolishness to those being lost. But this gospel is the power of God to those being saved. We who have been born into Christ have been united with Him in a death like His. We will certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His. We who have died with Him have been freed from sin, and we who walk in the light in Him are continually washed and maintained. We walk in new life. God and Jesus are our Great Reward now and our eventual Dwelling Place.
This won't get you atheist gold - but you already have that.
He really likes the word "mock".
Yesterday faith gave us an explanation and a reason, today faith gives us a blind eye and the right to be stupid.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Almost appropriate for this thread
This is just an idea, mind you, but guys...enough already, okay ?
Wether you look at it from "Fonzie"'s point of view or ours, there is no reason to keep this thread going.
Everything has been said and repeated too many times already. I say we let him have the last word and just leave this thread alone. If he wants to participate in an actual discussion in another thread, he can always do so.
There really is nothing more to add, and why would he even want to ? He's confident that anyone reading this thread will be impressed enough with his "faith", to completely ignore anything we've been trying to say, just like he's been doing.
And we're confident (well, hopeful) that people can read.
End of story.
(Like I said, this is just a suggestion. If anyone sane still wants to continue this, I'll be happy to keep contributing, but really, what's there left to say here ?)
Billy Bob - whatever, wherever you are
It's an honor to be one of your rejects. Totally extinguish yourself in whatever way you can. Memorize the PASS system for extinguishing:
P - Pull the pin.
A - Aim the nozzle at the base of the fire.
S - Squeeze the handle.
S - Sweep from side to side to cover the entire fire.
Congrats BB!
You now belong to Fonzie's "People that shattered my arguments so I'll ignore them after insulting/threatening them" group.
As a member of long standing, I welcome you.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Pretty funny Jc,
You guys have different roads "mined" and want to railroad down them, then if you can't get your pre-programed desired answer you whine and moan.
Don't worry, nobody's going to keep you from going to hell - not sure about the hand-basket. You've got 7 devils guarding you: "When the unclean spirit has gone out of a man, he passes through waterless places seeking rest, but he finds none. Then he says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when he comes he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. Then he goes and brings with him seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first." So you're making progress. Plus you have your attitude working for you on that.
Sorry to disrupt the flow of this thread( or not, I didn't check) it's just I have an urgent question that I want anwsered andI can't find it on the search engines (I'm not very dedicated when it comes to google). There is a excerpt from the bible where Ibelieve Jesus says something about to denounce your family/friends if they do not accept him. Now, I could be wrong, but if there is, I'd appreciate the passage because I need it for an arguemnt I'm currently involved in.
"Common sense is not so common"- Voltaire
"In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards."- Mark Twain
"Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."-Isaac Asimov
That's Luke 14:26, isn't it ? More stuff about denouncing your family in Mark 10: 29-30 and Mark 3: 31-35
(No idea why you're asking that in this thread, though)
Hmm..Okay, let's keep it going for a few more pages then...
Well, you can't really blame him for being amused by your rejection of Billy Bob, who's closer to your way of thinking than you can bring yourself to admit.
He's not getting any answer at all, and he's not the only one. And once again, I have to remind you that insulting people doesn't count as an answer.
Now, what did I just say about insulting people, hmmm ? It's not nice. Neither is lying to people. So if anyone's going to hell....
Thanks for that.
(I know it doesn't fit, but I was pressed for time so I chose the one with the most recent update. Sorry)
"Common sense is not so common"- Voltaire
"In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards."- Mark Twain
"Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."-Isaac Asimov
ProzacDeathWish,
"Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I (Jesus) tell you will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'LORD, open to us.' He will answer you, 'I do not know where you come from.' Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.' But He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!' There you will weep and gnash your teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves thrust out. And men will come from east and west, and from north and south, and sit at table in the kingdom of God. And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last."
To use a sports analogy; there was a false start - so what!? You can do a re-start and strive harder and run so as to win. If you ask God He will help and encourage you to re-start.
At one time we who are in Christ were all spiritually "dead in our sins". It wasn't a physical death (we were walking around). It wasn't a mental death (we could think). It wasn't even a moral death (we sensed some responsibility). But spiritual things were as foreign to us as calculus to a pig. We were insensitive to the good news of the gospel and warnings such as the one above. We put a lot of energy into trying to be freed from the chains of sin - the "dominion of darkness" - on a DIY level which is frustrating or leads to fantasy world (false) because it can't be done DIY.
But all of us who have "received" Christ (received = not purchased because it's a gift) have now experienced being brought from spiritual death to life in Christ. We have "received" the Gift of God meaning we realize we have the Gift, the Treasure (Christ), and meaning we didn't produce the Gift ourselves. We have it all in Christ; death (we have been buried with Him in baptism)/ life (our lives are hid with Him)/ resurrection (when He was raised from the dead all His people who are now in Him share in that resurrection)/ comfort (there is nothing more comfortable than resting in Christ Who has paid the price for us).
There is a "tendency to drift" as you have mentioned as a general problem. We need to strive constantly to avoid it. Run, box, wrestle - so as to win. Christianity is not a sleepy business.
First one to find the page where he dug up this post gets a free bible.
I wonder..., has he finally started listening to me, and is he now finally beginning to answer all the posts he ignored up till now ?
Oh boy, this could take a while...
I googled that quote.
It's from post # 47 in this thread.
He's answering posts made over 2 years ago.
"Fonzie", you really need to stop. For your own good. Forget the blood test, you need a total check-up.
So, let me get this straight, you are at war and suffering constantly but in your original post profess to be happy. And you are happy because when you die things MIGHT be great? Sounds like a compulsive gambler who is happy losing all his money because he believes the next big bet is going to make him rich.
Decay is merely a process of life. And why would you want to spend eternity with someone who punishes an entire planet because one person made him mad? What is so great and "righteous" about a being that holds a grudge not only against one person, but everyone else related to that person for thousands of years? Even if your god was real, I certainly wouldn't be thrilled to go live with him for eternity.
I do like your name though.
"Peter: May the Fonz be with you
Congregation: And also with you
Peter: Let us Ay
Congregation: Aaaaaaaay!!! " -Family Guy
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Latincanuk,
True there are counterfeits of valuable things. I doubt if there are any counterfeit pesos.
It is also true that there is a great gulf between you and your understanding of what is going on with those who are in Christ, "born anew", justified by faith in Jesus and His Atoning Sacrifice, having the gift of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. You have the impression that this is unreal, a lie, no evidence, etc. This is because you are on the other side of the gulf. You don't know this, you have this impression, you assume it in your unbelief. From my side I have every evidence Christ is real - I KNOW Who I have believed. You don't know what you are saying. Faith in Christ would qualify you to be translated from the dominion of darkness into the Kingdom of Light.
Once again he forgets how many of us were "in Christ" before and believed all this stuff. Then we grew up.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Is it just me, or is this getting completely insane now ?
Guys, he's replying to posts made over two years ago ! Not only that, he replied to this the first time it was posted. (Latincanuck posted this in #56, "Fonzie" already replied in #64)
Now I know he's more at ease when people aren't around anymore to react to his nonsense, but this is ridiculous. Do we really have to relive this thread from the start ?
WHY ? In the last three or so pages he ignored over 55 posts, and now he's replying to stuff he already replied to, from people who aren't even following this thread anymore ????
Okay, this has finally gotten too ridiculous for me to deal with.
Can we have a mod in here to close this thread , please ?
Fonzie,
It pains me to see that your ovarian dishonesty still prevents you from answering simple 'a' or 'b' questions, now an infinite + 32 times. The lithium has apparently shrunken your hypothalamus into irreversible cowardice, as you continue to avoid answering: Which do you value more, the truth (a) or your beliefs (b)? Each time you ignore discussion, only to regurgitate anew the cud you've been chewing for over 2 years, you reveal the counterfeit nature of belief in christ.
Elvis cannot help you if you don't want to help yourself.
You demonstrate the lack of purpose that christianity instills in its flock of hermaphroditic sheep. For if you refuse to answer direct questions, there is no purpose in your making further posts.
Elvis has decreed that those christians too cowardly to respond should crawl into the tomb with their rotting corpse-god, and close the lid.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Zarathustra,
That's a good direct question and thanks. I don't have faith (b) in faith (b). Faith (b) is the thing that allows me to grab hold of Christ (a) (the Way, Truth (a), and the Life). Faith (b) in faith (b) itself is like a belly-button focus (bbf) - it doesn't go anywhere (dga). Faith (b) enables me to look outside myself to the Salvation of God, to Christ (the Truth (a))
Have no pain (np) Chewing the cud is good if you part the hoof - that makes cud chewing have practical application.
As for Elvis, I don't put stock in his decrees or chimney corner scripture, but - remember - a living dog is better than a dead lion - you can take that directly to Graceland.
Well, he's back in the present. I was worried there for a bit.
So, care to tell us why you suddenly started on the wrong end of your own thread ?
Indeed it is. I guess we'd better start counting how many times it had to be repeated before you noticed it. Might save some time in future.
Oh, btw, you didn't answer it. (Nobody asked you if you had "faith in faith" )
I guess we'll have to repeat it a couple more times.
Yeah........
I guess "Fonzie" is done talking. It's just non-stop jibber jabber from here.
I'll let other people decide if this is worth continuing.
Really? When I asked you this question many pages before, you didn't say that it was a "good direct question." In fact, I know exactly what you said because I can go back and look.
See? When I asked you the same question, you called it a "false dilemma," tried to change the question, and compared me to the people in the Bible that questioned Jesus.
Well, if it's such a good direct question, then why can't you answer it? In fact, you're trying to change it again, asserting that (b) is faith and (a) is Jesus. NO, (b) is beliefs and (a) is truth. Also, I don't see one (a) or (b). I see three (a)s and six (b)s. I assume that doesn't imply that you pick (b).
I bet you can't answer this question either. Can you conceive of a world where Jesus didn't exist? In other words, can you simply grasp the concept of there not being a Jesus? Yes or no?
Or this one. Can truth exist independent of Christianity? Yes or no?
Or this one? Is it possible that your beliefs about God and Jesus are wrong? Yes or no?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Butterbattle,
This was direct but the way you ask it was a false dilemma. It's the way you ask it - I mean the tone of voice you looked with. Christ (a) is Truth (a). You don't accept that because you don't believe in Christ (a). Faith (b) in Christ (a) would change your understanding of my answer (ma).
Your next false dilemma: can I conceive of a world where Jesus didn't exist? If I did it would be a false conception.
The next: Can truth exist independent of Christianity? And then your two tests of a witch: she sinks: (no) she floats (yes). Truth cannot exist apart from Christ because Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. You can exist without Christ if you want to, but count me out.
Yet another: Is it possible that your (meaning my) beliefs about God and Jesus are wrong? And the required atheist slots: yes or no
You know Butterbattle, it's interesting that you are so intent on nobody telling you what to do but you want to tell me how to answer your questions with one of your answers. Can you conceive of any other answer except yours to your atheist questions?
Is it possible that my beliefs are wrong about God an Jesus? I'm sure that I'm no different than Peter, James and John on that. I have wrong approaches and concepts about things, but Jesus corrects them with class.
You had no problem with zarathustra's tone, and he asked exactly the same question, so what are you talking about ?
Actually, I think the reason he might not accept this either is because you changed the question yet again. Try reading what it says for a change : What do you value more, truth or your beliefs ? If you don't distinguish between truth and your beliefs, then just say so.
Actually, you already said you don't have the capacity to conveive of such a world, without being asked, so it would seem you don't consider it a false dilemma at all. You just don't like being made to answer questions.
Do try to contain your persecution complex, please.
Again : Read the question. Why do you first repeat it verbatim only to change it again in your answer ? Are you even aware that you're doing that ? No ? Then pay close attention now, please : Christ and christianity are two different things. Nobody asked you if truth can exist independent of christ.
Butterbattle is "intent on nobody telling him what to do" ? I'm sure that'll be news to him. As for "answering your question with one of your answers", it's news to me that he invented the words "yes" and "no". He must be rich.
You seem to have once again conveniently forgotten, why it has become necesarry for us to have you answer yes-or-no questions. Simply put, it's because you can't have your cake and eat it too. Don't know what that means ? Example coming right up :
So yes, you can be wrong, but no, you can't because jesus corrects you.
You want to have it both ways, and I'm sorry, but you can't. This has nothing to do with "atheist questions" or "atheist answers", it's simply about honesty and common sense.
What we have been assuming here, is that christians are capable of both.
You still seem to disagree.
butterbattle,
There were laws given by God to Moses written on tablets of stone 50 days after the first Passover with the mountain shaking. That was the first Pentecost. You have quoted from some of those laws, and quoted very well.
The last Pentecost was 50 days after the last Passover, which was when the Lamb of God was slain for the forgiveness of all who believe in Him. On this Pentecost the Holy Spirit was poured out on the apostles with fire and the sound of a rushing wind. This time God wrote His Law on the hearts of His people. He continues to do that to those to whom He gives Life in His Son.
God has revealed Himself through prophets and many various ways in the past - today He has spoken to us by His Son. You also quoted accurately from some instructions concerning walking by faith in said Son.
If you want to pattern your life after the men you mentioned - Hemmingway (how did he die BTW?), Mark Twain, whoever, it's your choice. I have been entertained by "For Whom the Bell Tolls", "Screwtape Letters" - but I would be bored by those now. I can see why you're getting depressed if that's your standard fare.
As far as problems with Christianity - every living thing has problems. The whole creation is under a curse - not because it wanted to be, but because of the Will of He Who subjected it. Someday it will be released. Can you imagine no evil outside you or in you or attacking you or physical evil, pain, sickness. Also no evil one to attack with his buddies and no flesh to use to tempt us with? If you can you have a better imagination than me. That will be great to experience regardless of imagination.
Do I think that a compassionate person can go to heaven without following Jesus? You know I am not the gate checker on that. But I am putting all my trust on the Solid Rock of Jesus' Atoning Death and Resurrection and What He Said and did. You guys that want to be your own god can decide for yourselves who you think is going up or down. That's not my thing.
(PS does who's-he-what caddy for you too?)
And he's back to the start of the thread. Post #102 this time.
Care to tell everyone why you're doing this ? You already replied to this one too, in #111. So what exactly is the point of this new nonsense ? It wasn't ridiculous enough that you've skipped over 50 posts in the last three pages alone ? (And that's not even counting BillyBob's)
Seriously, wtf ?
I asked the exact same question.
A false dilemma is a logical fallacy where only two possible choices are offered when there are actually more available. What choices do you have other than truth or beliefs?
There are no voices. We're typing.
No. (a) is only truth. Not Christ. It is merely the concept of truth, whatever is true, regardless of whether that includes your beliefs in Christ or not.
Do you believe that Christ and truth are synonymous? Yes or no? Can you simply conceive of there being such a thing as truth without Christ? Yes or no?
That is partly true. Even if I was a Christian, I still wouldn't accept it, because it is incoherent. It’s a semantic farce.
What is true is what conforms to reality. So, Christ can be true in the sense that your beliefs about him are true. Christ cannot be synonymous with truth because the very statement is nonsensical, a category error; Christ is a being while truth is only a concept. Of course, you could simply insist that you are defining Christ to equal truth, but then, you cannot continue carrying the extra baggage of Christ being the son of God, etc. That simply commits the same category error in a more dishonest fashion and begs the question. Certainly, “simply put, it's because you can't have your cake and eat it too.”
No. (b) is only beliefs. Not faith. It is not even specifically your belief in Christ; it is whatever you believe.
You have yet to provide a clear answer to the question.
Again, a false dilemma is a logical fallacy where only two possible choices are offered when there are actually more available. Are you implying that you have choices other than yes and no?
I didn’t ask you whether it would be true or false. I’m asking you whether or not you can simply imagine it. I don’t care if it’s true or what the world would be like; I just want to know if you’re at least capable of imagining it. Can you conceive of a world where Jesus didn’t exist? Yes or no?
Excellent. I think you actually answered the question here. So, your answer to the question is no, truth cannot exist independent of Jesus Christ. Correct?
I don’t believe in God because I do not think I have been provided with enough evidence. It has nothing to do with rebelling against authority.
But, I suppose your statement is true to an extent. I have absolutely no respect for authorities simply because they are an authority. All people must earn my respect, no matter who they are.
The questions themselves are ‘yes or no’ questions. It’s part of the English language. But, if you can find a way to answer these questions without saying or implying ‘yes or no,’ I’d like to see it. So far, you have not.
No, I cannot conceive of any answer other than ‘yes or no’ (including all synonyms and implied yeses and nos) that answer these questions. I don't consider them to be 'atheist questions' though.
Okay, I think you’re implying yes. Good.
Try this one then. It’s a bit harder. Is it possible that your belief that Jesus exists is incorrect?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Wow. You quoted something from over a year ago, I think.
Ugh, I really don't like my response. It's rambling, too emotional, making too many assumptions and kind of immature. Lol, did I change a lot?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Did he ?
butterbattle,
You have "questions" and you have all the answers to these questions, huh? How logical is that? What is it that you have confidence in that you are right in your all encompassing answers to your own questions? Is it yourself? And do you see yourself that you have changed? Could it be that your almighty perspective on all this is shaky?
To me, it is not possible whatsoever that Jesus does not exist. I have zero doubt on that and hope I would gladly die for it (you don't get much practice on that). No it is not possible that Jesus is not Everything He Says He IS. He is LORD, He is Living, He is Truth, All Truth. He is also Unchanging, unlike you and me. This Unchanging part is one reason Jesus is referred to as the "Anchor" for your ship, the "Foundation" for your house, the "Rock" of your salvation, the "Refuge" from the storms of life. He is the Commander of the army I am in and the Head of the body I am a part of. We have the best Head on our shoulders there is BTW. You have fallen for a lie about Jesus - to your eternal regret unless you "change" again for the better. This "change" could come about with God's help. Your arrogant attitude stands in the way of that I think - not the desires of the merciful God. A lot worse attitudes than yours have changed I bet. Speaking of which...
(PS - maybe your caddy will tell you what you should think about this and what club for par?)