It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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So because he doesn't dwell on death as much as you and your death cult do, he's an animal?
You're probably not a fan of blood coming out your wounds but you're happy to the point of orgasm picturing blood pouring from Jesus' open wounds.
That's kinky to the point of depraved.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I just need to say I cannot believe this thread is still going...
I understand what you mean about loving to have the whole Bible inhaled into your heart, mind and spirit at once, but I make it a point to try and not memorize scripture. I have seen demonstrations where people who have memorized scriptures for years were told to write down a scripture they had memorized on a piece of paper and then compare it to the written word and only then they could see that the majority of them had twisted the verse in some way. It really is interesting. I run a website and when I go over and proofread what I have written I will actually read the text, not as I have actually written it, but as I intended to have written it. So, when we twist a scripture in our minds by memorization when we read that scripture it becomes what we think it is rather than what it actually is. Not to mention that if you memorize a verse, even accurately, you sort of isolate that verse and the potential for you to take it out of context for your own purposes is far greater, as well as is the inability to accept correction should your interpretation prove to be flawed, so you sort of - uh, - idolize or sanctify the verse in your mind, which brainwashes you into being indoctrinated to it.
It's probably better to have more than one version inhaled in your heart and mind. That way you can find passages that make you feel better about your views.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Actually, I think it is best to use the Bible as a simple tool in study and then when for personal reading or meditation to read it as if it were new to you. That there are little treasures hidden in it that you have never seen before. Not an intentional exercise to that effect or you will miss it. It is very important to be as aware as possible with other translations and versions, though. Most definitely.
I'm trying to make my way through the fog and find out what your point is in the first line, but I am failing. One of these days you might try saying what you mean rather than try to write like mister Miyagi. Seriously, your first line doesn't even make sense, I honestly don't know what you are trying to say, beyond a vague insult.
Lots of things about theists don't gall me Fonzie, but you don't seem to have many of those attributes sown through your writing. For example, when David isn't being a prick he barely galls me at all!
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
AHHHHHHH, TIME LOOP!!!!!!!!!!!
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
AHHHHHHH, TIME LOOP!!!!!!!!!!!
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
...Burma Shave.
I think I just dated myself.
Dolt:"Evolution is just a theory."
Me:"Yes, so is light and gravity. Pardon me while I flash this strobe while dropping a bowling ball on your head. This shouldn't bother you; after all, these are just theories."
FRIDAY...BURMA SHAVE
(it's been several Fridays but you atheists haven't found it if you haven't found Christ)
KidVelvet,
I am a witness for the "new creation" in Christ, which is the only thing in this world that gets better and newer and newer all the time. There are other witnesses in this court against the gospel of Christ who have nothing of substance, but thinking they themselves are the JUDGE they themselves try to make truth, hope and light into a train wreck, presenting what is falsely called "knowledge", trying to act like they have something yet not even answering fundamental questions of life. There are others like you who just try to disrupt the court. And, there are other silent witnesses - both seen and unseen, both earthly, heavenly, and demonic.
I'm confident about my case. Jesus is LORD. The principle of faith in Jesus ends all these doubts and questions. If Jesus said it - it is true- on with life - He will do it. Through Christ the enmity between those of us who have been born anew has been set aside and we have been brought near to God. The law of God has been written this time not on stone but on human hearts. We KNOW Who we have believed. He can handle it all.
Actually, what's happening outside the realm of your religious fantasies is something far simpler :
People here have asked you questions.
You have not answered them. Instead you have made strange assertions that you refuse to answer questions about as well.
Yeah, I know, it doesn't sound half as impressive as what you wrote, but at least it's true. (i.e. if you actually read this thread, then that is what you'll find)
Uhm, there is no "court". This is an internet discussion forum. There really is no need for all this dramatic embellishment.
I have already explained to you the problem with this whole "demonic" thing. You have ignored it.
And yet you're unable or unwilling to defend it.
No, he can't. And you have generously provided proof for that with your posts here and in your other threads. Just pick any page in this thread and count the unanswered questions.
Btw, regarding your medication, have you started taking regular bloodtests yet ?
The trouble with you, Fonzie, is that you're not actually making a case. You're not here to argue rationally or to have an honest and open discussion. Rather, you're merely here to preach at people -- I make that assumption based on pages and pages of evidence. For you to take such an approach requires a combination of delusion and arrogance. It reminds me of the time I asked my schizophrenic friend why he alone could hear the voices. He replied, with an expression of sorrow on his face, "You've been left out."
Reality is the graveyard of the gods.
Isn't it great to be a witness to the invisible? Most people see things that aren't there are hospitalized - theists are venerated.
Isn't it nice to be in a "court" that sides with you on all cases no matter what the facts say? Anyone who tries to bring them up are met with objections that are sustained before they are uttered.
It's not that hard for you to be confident of your case - you own the judge.
For the rest of your sermon (From "Jesus is LORD" on) - your holy book stands in evidence against you. I'm sure you'll find a way to get the judge to shout that down also.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Dear NoDeity,
You remind me of the philosophy class that could never get beyond roll call and whether they were there or not. Explain to yourself why it is that when I offer my reasoning on salvation by faith it is preaching - but when you offer your disdain for God and His Son it is not preaching. You don't have to explain it to me - I get it.
Here is my case: you can spend your whole life like the Greeks at the Acropolis just listening for something new, worshiping the "unknown God" of the "new idea". We don't have lounging time here. We barely have time to learn the chords on that guitar of yours and maybe some Travis picking and "ding" (like the microwave says) - we're DONE.
I am simply presenting the way that WORKS. It's not my idea. The test has been conducted under ultimate idea conditions (see Adam in the garden) and the results are in: you can't save yourself by doing things right all the time. You don't need to think you can stand where Adam fell. Conditions were perfect, he had only one rule, he had no habit, he had no clutter, no stress, no weeds, no pollution - and he blew it. On the other hand, salvation by faith in God in Christ works. It lets God solve the God thing and us do the man thing.
Salvation by faith in God in Christ works. Once you understand that what God and Jesus say is true all the doubts and questionings, all the uncertainties and spiritual vapor lock ends and life can move on. This is reasonable because if you can believe what a person says then you can depend on them to do what they say. This depends however on whether you believe Jesus is the Christ the Son of God. If you don't, then you don't have the faith I'm talking about and it won't work for you. When you come on and tell me you don't have faith in Jesus being God's Son, His atoning sacrifice paying for our sins, His death, burial and resurrection - you are preaching your unbelief to me.
You know my answers for how the world was created (God spoke it into existence), why we are here - the meaning of life is (to glorify God), and the hope after death (spend eternity with God). Your tactic rather than give me your hope and understanding of the origin and purpose of life in this world is just to mis-characterize, attack personally, label as preaching, and throw crap. So you know my reasoning and dismiss it as preaching rather than answer with your understanding? That is your problem NoDeity, you're not making a song or even a chord here. How long are you going to play this song on your one string? Huh?
If I would compare the way you atheists are living to pouring concrete - you are spending all your time smoothing one square inch while the whole pour sets up.
If it worked as well as you say, would you need to take the mood stabilizer you do?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Funny...atheists are usually the people saying, "Just live your life" and theists are usually the people waxing poetic about why God doesn't like it when you stick your weenie anywhere but your wife's vagina, or whether or not you can eat pork, or what a 2,000 year old dead guy said about a woman's ability to contradict her husband in public, or.....
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
I wish I was the pitcher.....
Do you "get" the fact that your assertions are utterly dependent on faith and are unsupported by reason and testable evidence?
Reality is the graveyard of the gods.
Fonzie is happy with his internal mental state bringing him enough 'joy' to keep him on a permanent high, so much so that he can'y help wanting to tell us about, and even hinting that we might be able to achieve this state of bliss if we also abandoned our misguided obsession with coming to grips with external reality and seeking to understand it.
We obsess over the tiny fraction of existence represented by "Life, the Universe, and Everything", instead of diving into the infinity which is the state of being convinced that you are communing with God and Jesus.
How blind we must be....
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
This is a lie.
Yes, I know that's painfully obvious to those people who've actually read this thread and NoDeity's posts, but I just thought I'd mention it.
Indeed, I feel that as a real slap in the face after I specifically went into a fairly careful explanation of my world-view and understanding of life, etc.
Maybe he is unhappy because we don't accept that there even needs to be an overall purpose to life, apart from what we personally feel or chose.
We have certainly covered what we understand of the origin of life in excruciating detail, unless he means that in some other more 'spiritual' sense.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Liar. I and several others have made honest attempts to help you to understand our various worldviews.
Reality is the graveyard of the gods.
NoDeity,
I'll give you credit for this: you're not lukewarm in your incredulity. Yet again rather than discuss issues of life you attack personally. I got it that you don't think there is anything beyond death, but if you are living with no hope beyond death how does this life that you see ranges from weeks to 115 years mean anything while you are here? How do you live a meaningless life? Aren't you a dead man walking?
And isn't it the most unkind thing you can do to Jesus to not believe Him or believe in Him - the One through Whom the world was created and holds together? You start with that benchmark of unkindness and how could it matter what you call me?
I'll wait for your personal attack rather than an explanation of how you live without hope beyond death.
Fonzie, you will never understand this, it seems, but the absence of an eternal afterlife gives this life real meaning. I would see the idea of an eternal after-life robbing this brief life of all meaning.
Since Jesus, if he ever actually existed, was not in any way responsible for the creation of this world. You have absolutely zero meaningful evidence that such an absurd claim is true.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Fonzie,
Calling someone a liar is only a personal attack when the person the charge is leveled at is not lying. You've misrepresented yourself and your God since you've been here.
Or does lying become OK when you add "...for Jesus"?
You've been told by many how we deal with death and how it is unnecessary for us to fellate any deity in the hope that we have guessed correctly and will wind up in its heaven. You just don't like the answers.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
*sigh*
Read his posts starting from #495.
Now take particular notice of your own words in post 503 :
Ok, this makes no sense. I make a joke by adding Burma Shave to the previous quote, and this turns into a surmon.
Even worse, the surmon makes no sense. I mean literally makes no sense. And why add Friday to my Burma Shave comment?
If Christianity creates confused, incomprehensible gibberish like this, I am staying far, far away.
Dolt:"Evolution is just a theory."
Me:"Yes, so is light and gravity. Pardon me while I flash this strobe while dropping a bowling ball on your head. This shouldn't bother you; after all, these are just theories."
Anonymouse,
That was good discussion you're right about that. What about your kill babies game?
BobSpence1,
You're right, I don't understand that.
As to reasoning about the world being created through and held together by Jesus I have God ignited faith. It probably is different than man's reason.
The point is, you accused him of something he didn't do. You lied.
Are you planning to apologise ?
This isn't the first time you lied here, but it would be the first time you apologised for it.
Killing innocent children in the name of god, you mean ? That wasn't a game, it was a question I put to you. Would you kill an innocent child if god asked you ? You answered "yes"
Funny you should mention that. There is, at this very moment, a christian who's doing just that. And I don't mean in a metaphorical sort of way. I mean actually killing and torturing children because god told him to do it.
Apparently that's something you approve of.
Do excuse me for not considering that a "game".
I think bobs point is easy to understand fonz. if you take the endgame out of the equation then everything in life takes on greater meaning not less. being a christian from what i have seen everything is based on a life spent trying to attain a prize hence giving it meaning. on the flip side once that is removed a person finds that all their actions in this finite time has importance and meaning. personally i can see the arguement for both sides even if i dont agree with them rational or irrational makes no difference. people want and need certain things even if it isnt correct, moral, rational, or even logical. in my mind thats what makes man as a species so friggin great
So your justification for your belief amounts to saying you believe because you believe. Faith is a nice sounding label for self-deception, pretending you have justification, then getting yourself to forget that you are just pretending, hoping it it is really true. "Believing what you know ain't so", as Mark Twain described it. I find rejoicing in such inherent dishonesty to be despicable.
Maybe I just feel sorry for you, since your inability to understand my attitude to life confirms that, using another famous quote, "you can't handle the truth".
You are like a drug addict, who can't give up, because it makes you feel so great.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Yes, it is different from human reasoning. It is different in that it simply is not reasoning by usual meaning of the word reasoning. It's different from human reasoning in the same way that a fish is different from a stone. That is why I have told you that you haven't shown us the reasoning on which your world view is founded -- it's not founded on reason but on faith.
Reality is the graveyard of the gods.
Again, why I didn't get into this one much, you can tell by his first post he is veritably blowing faith out his ass. Totally pointless to argue or debate with one of this nature.
He is not here to debate but to show off his awesome faith. Ooooooohhh ahhhhhh Shineeeeeey! Yes I'm rude, but I think this guy is rude with his insane zealots attitude.
He should take his god ignited faith to another religions forum and have a clash of faith with some sucker there.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Anonymouse,
There has been some good discussion by invitation I might add here on this website but I can't attribute any to you. But thanks for the link to the discussion with NoDiety. I had forgotten that.
BobSpence1,
I can see the comparison to drug addict - the more I know Christ the more I want to know Him. It's different in the sense that there is "no sorrow added".
My experience with faith is different than yours. It's real with me. I've had storms that would have blown away an unreal faith.
I can't accept sympathy from you when I am happy beyond your belief.
I read a story recently about a shepherd who needed a sheep dog but couldn't afford one. He found a border collie a woman had chained in town, couldn't control, didn't understand - it was a misplaced thing. Now the shepherd took the dog home and needed to win the dog's trust. It was a slow rocky thing that involved turning the dog loose in desperation. The dog came back and then could start doing what he was really made for. This is similar to my being rescued by the Shepherd. Now I find what I'm really made for. No sympathy needed or wanted.
Bob I've enjoyed discussing things with you. And I don't feel like I have to try to cloak anything I say deceitfully - and I don't with any of you. I may forget something, but I'm not faking anything. My faith has sufficient solid evidence to me. It's not evidence that you are willing to accept. And it starts with believing that Jesus is the Son of God who died for my sins and now lives. I'm not pretending in any sense.
robj101,
You should read the welcome mat to this forum. I don't take anything you say as rude. I think you have to take atheists one at a time just like anybody.
I'm not sure what I can tell from your few posts.
NoDeity,
I have really enjoyed discussing with you here. I had forgotten that background story you told which I appreciated.
My reasoning is faith based you are right. Understand it is a part of me such that I forget that. I couldn't believe the Bible more if I saw the things happen first hand - and I'm not wanting to offend you or parade that saying it, but just to explain that it is so real to me that I forget the faith part. My reasoning of how the world is founded is based on my total confidence in the Bible view. Practically all of the "how" part I don't understand; however, a lot is not understood in science either. Metamorphosis, gravity, magnetism, instinct, migration - I don't think science has a serious handle on those - yet you have faith in science. I also have total confidence in God Who I know in a trusting sense through Christ but that I don't comprehend - He's far, far above any of my thoughts.
It seemed to me like you had a bad experience with people of faith (I've had some of those) and wrote off the whole thing. I see that as a vaccination from a weak strain giving you immunity.
drivers1492,
This "pie in the sky and by and by" is a misconception of salvation by faith. Eternal life is defined in Scripture as knowing Christ. We have part of our inheritance now - the gift of the Holy Spirit. So we have eternal life starting now - Christ living in us. It's a real thing to me. The presence of God is something I live in. It is a great strength and comfort - now. So actually nothing fits the can't wait American thinking like salvation by faith. Believe in Christ and you are saved. That's pretty fast and efficient. And I hope it helps explain why I differ with Bob's point of view.
Exactly, and thanks for pointing out that I have not read the intro to this forum, rules and all surely I would not have done such a thing. Assumption is often code for stupid, and I myself assume on occasion so I wont call you out too much on that one.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I don't have faith in science -- not in the same sense that you have faith in God. I trust the scientific method because it can be objectively seen to have been highly successful so far and, therefore, can reasonably be expected to continue to be successful into the future. The foundation of your trust in God, on the other hand, is completely subjective. When I say it's subjective, I mean that it is internal and personal and is unavailable for examination by others.
I was a Christian for almost thirty years. I didn't abandon it because I had a bad experience. I abandoned it because I learned to value reason and to use rational methods of inquiry.
Reality is the graveyard of the gods.
"Believe in Christ and you are saved. That's pretty fast and efficient." i think me and you read a different copy of that book fonz. or your just keeping it short and sweet which i have no problem with at all as long as you actually arent saying that according to your own structure of laws set down by your religion you think thats all ya gta do to get the free keychain at the end
Religion generates the strongest conviction of its truth in its adherents, yet is the least objectively justifiable form of 'knowledge'.
That is consistent with human nature however - Daniel Dennett addressed these issues around belief in 'Breaking the Spell'. Fonzie is such a classic demonstration of some of the things Dennett discussed....
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
So you won't apologise for lying ? Not much of a surprise there.
So you attribute your deceitful nature to "forgetting", do you ? That's convenient. Here's another thing you "forgot" : You never liked our discussions much because whenever you lied, I always brought this to your attention. I can see how not being allowed to lie might disrupt the flow of your faith somewhat.
I think I'll be helping you to recall quite a lot of things as this thread goes on.
Actually, he's used two versions of that in this thread : "Believe in Christ and live !" and "Believe in Christ or die !". It seems to depend on his mood.
drivers1492,
The gospel is truly good news. If the works of man would serve to pay for it - even partial payment - it would be bad news indeed. That has never worked - even under perfect conditions (Adam) - and is a dismal pursuit. It's one of man's biggest problems, man thinking he can in any way save himself. It is such an unhappy, unfulfilling trip that I think it causes many to get frustrated and quit - maybe some represented on this forum - who then never find real salvation through faith in the living Christ. It becomes a stone they stumble over.
How would the promise, "you will be this day with me in paradise" have been good news to the thief if he had at that point to perform any works? No, rather the gospel is a promised salvation to be received by faith in the atoning sacrifice and work of God through Christ. It is indeed good news. It's God's Way of salvation and it works, it inspires, it lives, it rocks.
There is no conflict in this salvation through faith and the fact that we are His workmanship, created in Him for good works. They are God's works. The Life that is working within us will manifest itself in visible light reflection - His light. The "belief" in the scripture, "believe in Jesus and live" must be real before God Who knows the heart of man. Through faith in Christ we are justified in truth before God - we likely won't be justified before man, but that's not the point. Jesus Himself wasn't accurately evaluated by most men. We need to be justified before God by His definition. "Through grace you have been saved - it is the gift of God". It has already happened, in Christ we who have believed in Him have already received salvation. That is true because it is always a gift. It doesn't depend on our works to even make up the change. Buy your own key chain if you want - but only for your keys.
Preach it brother!
Sounds like if the lord of the rings had been written back then you would be a Frodo follower, awaiting death so you could go to the shire.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Well, that didn't take long.
It has been explained to you that this is not true. Many times, by many different people. Forgot it again, did you ?
If you're going to dismiss everything we tell you , what use is it for anyone to talk to you about anything ?
Isn't Pauline claptrap wonderful? "Forget all that stuff that was written about Yahweh wanting obedience. Pay no attention to what was written about Jesus wanting his commandments kept and the law not passing away Just believe in Jesus (whose words you're ignoring) really hard and you'll get everything you want in this life and the next".
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
JcGadfly,
I'm not ignoring obedience to Jesus' commandments at all. The motive for following those is not paying for salvation however; salvation is a gift received by faith in the grace of the Giver. We strive to do what God wants out of love for Christ and God.
The gospel is said to be a winnowing thing - the reaction to it separates the wheat from the chaff.