It works for me!

Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
It works for me!

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote: NoDeity, You

Fonzie wrote:

 

NoDeity,

 

You define confidence and faith as arrogance. 

I'm not sure how you define your quitting the race - righteous maybe? 

 

 

Or you've redefined arrogance as "confidence and faith".

When 2 Timothy 1:12 has " and that's why I'm better than you" tacked on the end don't you think you've crossed the line?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
SHOW YOURSELF RESPECT OF THE TRUTH

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

 

NoDeity,

 

You define confidence and faith as arrogance. 

I'm not sure how you define your quitting the race - righteous maybe? 

 

 

Or you've redefined arrogance as "confidence and faith".

When 2 Timothy 1:12 has " and that's why I'm better than you" tacked on the end don't you think you've crossed the line?

 

"But I am not ashamed, for I know Whom I have believed, and I am sure that He is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me"  (God)

 

It's not "I am better than you" tacked on to the end.  All the blessings are there for you but you in your arrogance and self-sufficiency refuse them.  It is that the Word of God is against you because you are against the Word of God.  You are against Christ and therefore refuse these blessings offered to you through Christ.  Then you characterize me as arrogant for enjoying them while offering them to you.  But you mischaracterize Christ as well, so I like the boat I'm on.  You are just part of the ballast - but if you would repent you could come on deck and "land ho". 

It is a phony state to say you have no god and thus be oblivious to declaring yourself on the throne.  You take issue with me saying you make a lousy god but all of us would make a lousy god - except God.  I'm not doing you harm or showing you disrespect to share that fact with you.  Actually I respect you more than you respect yourself - because I'm sharing the truth with you, something you don't even share with yourself, JcGadfly, (and NoDiety). 

 

 

 

 

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

 

NoDeity,

 

You define confidence and faith as arrogance. 

I'm not sure how you define your quitting the race - righteous maybe? 

 

 

Or you've redefined arrogance as "confidence and faith".

When 2 Timothy 1:12 has " and that's why I'm better than you" tacked on the end don't you think you've crossed the line?

 

"But I am not ashamed, for I know Whom I have believed, and I am sure that He is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me"  (God)

 

It's not "I am better than you" tacked on to the end.  All the blessings are there for you but you in your arrogance and self-sufficiency refuse them.  It is that the Word of God is against you because you are against the Word of God.  You are against Christ and therefore refuse these blessings offered to you through Christ.  Then you characterize me as arrogant for enjoying them while offering them to you.  But you mischaracterize Christ as well, so I like the boat I'm on.  You are just part of the ballast - but if you would repent you could come on deck and "land ho". 

It is a phony state to say you have no god and thus be oblivious to declaring yourself on the throne.  You take issue with me saying you make a lousy god but all of us would make a lousy god - except God.  I'm not doing you harm or showing you disrespect to share that fact with you.  Actually I respect you more than you respect yourself - because I'm sharing the truth with you, something you don't even share with yourself, JcGadfly, (and NoDiety). 

 

 

 

 

 

The scripture doesn't add "and that's why I am better than you" on - you do. Why is that?

As for the projections that you're putting on me and others, I have to ask:

Which is better? To know where one stands in this life without a supernatural entity or to create one that miraculously agrees with you in every detail?

At present, I choose the former. Why do you stick with the latter?

See, I don't worship me. You made a God that's just like you and renamed it the God of the Bible and found passages that fit (just like they did when they made Jesus and Yahweh).

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
WHAT DO YOU HAVE IN THE ATHEIST BOX?

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

 

NoDeity,

 

You define confidence and faith as arrogance. 

I'm not sure how you define your quitting the race - righteous maybe? 

 

 

Or you've redefined arrogance as "confidence and faith".

When 2 Timothy 1:12 has " and that's why I'm better than you" tacked on the end don't you think you've crossed the line?

 

"But I am not ashamed, for I know Whom I have believed, and I am sure that He is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me"  (God)

 

It's not "I am better than you" tacked on to the end.  All the blessings are there for you but you in your arrogance and self-sufficiency refuse them.  It is that the Word of God is against you because you are against the Word of God.  You are against Christ and therefore refuse these blessings offered to you through Christ.  Then you characterize me as arrogant for enjoying them while offering them to you.  But you mischaracterize Christ as well, so I like the boat I'm on.  You are just part of the ballast - but if you would repent you could come on deck and "land ho". 

It is a phony state to say you have no god and thus be oblivious to declaring yourself on the throne.  You take issue with me saying you make a lousy god but all of us would make a lousy god - except God.  I'm not doing you harm or showing you disrespect to share that fact with you.  Actually I respect you more than you respect yourself - because I'm sharing the truth with you, something you don't even share with yourself, JcGadfly, (and NoDiety). 

 

 

 

 

 

The scripture doesn't add "and that's why I am better than you" on - you do. Why is that?

As for the projections that you're putting on me and others, I have to ask:

Which is better? To know where one stands in this life without a supernatural entity or to create one that miraculously agrees with you in every detail?

At present, I choose the former. Why do you stick with the latter?

See, I don't worship me. You made a God that's just like you and renamed it the God of the Bible and found passages that fit (just like they did when they made Jesus and Yahweh).

 

Nice try JcGadfly,

 

You're running on fumes.  Your religion - whatever it is - isn't capable of producing anything except tuning in to generate static, to attack in all directions, to tear down, crowbar, and sneer.  You don't lay out anything but the jazz-scale of living - any mocking note you hit is sweet harmony to your atheist ears and the sing-alongs.  But you never - no, never - light up the world with your plan.  You atheists are the wrecking crew of the earth.  I've heard what you don't believe, I've seen what you don't like, we know what you don't respect - but we don't know what is - is with you. 

This is your safety defense.  But you never take the ball and make a run, and show the brighter atheist path, the plan, the play.  It's a religion based on what you don't have, don't like, don't respect, and don't know.  Trot out your savior and your salvation.  Is there nothing in your box?  

 

 

 

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

 

NoDeity,

 

You define confidence and faith as arrogance. 

I'm not sure how you define your quitting the race - righteous maybe? 

 

 

Or you've redefined arrogance as "confidence and faith".

When 2 Timothy 1:12 has " and that's why I'm better than you" tacked on the end don't you think you've crossed the line?

 

"But I am not ashamed, for I know Whom I have believed, and I am sure that He is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me"  (God)

 

It's not "I am better than you" tacked on to the end.  All the blessings are there for you but you in your arrogance and self-sufficiency refuse them.  It is that the Word of God is against you because you are against the Word of God.  You are against Christ and therefore refuse these blessings offered to you through Christ.  Then you characterize me as arrogant for enjoying them while offering them to you.  But you mischaracterize Christ as well, so I like the boat I'm on.  You are just part of the ballast - but if you would repent you could come on deck and "land ho". 

It is a phony state to say you have no god and thus be oblivious to declaring yourself on the throne.  You take issue with me saying you make a lousy god but all of us would make a lousy god - except God.  I'm not doing you harm or showing you disrespect to share that fact with you.  Actually I respect you more than you respect yourself - because I'm sharing the truth with you, something you don't even share with yourself, JcGadfly, (and NoDiety). 

 

 

 

 

 

The scripture doesn't add "and that's why I am better than you" on - you do. Why is that?

As for the projections that you're putting on me and others, I have to ask:

Which is better? To know where one stands in this life without a supernatural entity or to create one that miraculously agrees with you in every detail?

At present, I choose the former. Why do you stick with the latter?

See, I don't worship me. You made a God that's just like you and renamed it the God of the Bible and found passages that fit (just like they did when they made Jesus and Yahweh).

 

Nice try JcGadfly,

 

You're running on fumes.  Your religion - whatever it is - isn't capable of producing anything except tuning in to generate static, to attack in all directions, to tear down, crowbar, and sneer.  You don't lay out anything but the jazz-scale of living - any mocking note you hit is sweet harmony to your atheist ears and the sing-alongs.  But you never - no, never - light up the world with your plan.  You atheists are the wrecking crew of the earth.  I've heard what you don't believe, I've seen what you don't like, we know what you don't respect - but we don't know what is - is with you. 

This is your safety defense.  But you never take the ball and make a run, and show the brighter atheist path, the plan, the play.  It's a religion based on what you don't have, don't like, don't respect, and don't know.  Trot out your savior and your salvation.  Is there nothing in your box?  

 

 

 

 

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Dragoon
Dragoon's picture
Posts: 170
Joined: 2009-05-27
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:To need a

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down. I'm afraid of being less that what God created me to be. I'm afraid of looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior, and seeing His great love for me... and letting Him down in even the slightest way.

 

Some fear may come from terror of a tyrant.

The fear of God stems from loving God.

 

Needing a savior does not require us to 'feel a need to be saved' though. The need is there whether we feel it or not.

 


NoDeity
Bronze Member
NoDeity's picture
Posts: 268
Joined: 2009-10-13
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:  But you

Fonzie wrote:
  But you never take the ball and make a run, and show the brighter atheist path, the plan, the play.  It's a religion based on what you don't have, don't like, don't respect, and don't know.  Trot out your savior and your salvation.  Is there nothing in your box? 

Reality.  Reality is that which you claim but can only pretend to have.  In Jesus-speak, your reality is that which you have by faith.  In rational human being speak, you pretend to have reality but your claim of reality is unsupported by and is in violation of the very thing that has made it possible for humanity to progress to where it is today and, therefore, I consider your claim of reality to be an immoral one because it is contrary to what is necessary for human survival and advancement: reason.

It used to be that, if you wanted to have three children, you'd better have five because two would probably not survive.  It used to be that, if you wanted to have children, it was likely that you would need to marry more than once because there was a pretty good chance that at least on of your wives would die in childbirth.  Today, in the civilized west, we are shocked when a child dies before the age of three or when a woman dies while giving birth.  It was not always so.  What made the difference?  Prayer?  Faith?  Sing-alongs? 

No!  Reason.  Scientific methods of investigation.  Dedication to cold hard facts.  These are the things that have made it possible for more human beings to love and live with their loved ones.  That is what is in our box: the only proven means of improving humanity's lot in this, our one and only life.

I already know what is in your box: delusions, lies, false hope, false promises.  Holy shit.  It seems to me that people would have to be crazy or to have given up on life for them to prefer your box to ours.

 

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


NoDeity
Bronze Member
NoDeity's picture
Posts: 268
Joined: 2009-10-13
User is offlineOffline
Dragoon wrote:jcgadfly

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down.

I'm afraid of letting the Tooth Fairy down. 


 

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


Kapkao
atheistSuperfanBronze Member
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
ProzacDeathWish wrote:Fonzie

next time I'll check before posting in a 2~ year old thread... sheesh.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


Kapkao
atheistSuperfanBronze Member
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote: Faith in

Fonzie wrote:

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

My gospel is non-existent...

Faith in jesus never worked for me... faith in myself always has!

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Dragoon wrote:jcgadfly

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down. I'm afraid of being less that what God created me to be. I'm afraid of looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior, and seeing His great love for me... and letting Him down in even the slightest way.

 

Some fear may come from terror of a tyrant.

The fear of God stems from loving God.

 

Needing a savior does not require us to 'feel a need to be saved' though. The need is there whether we feel it or not.

 

So you fear letting down a being who has standards that are impossible for humans to meet? Standards that he ignores but punishes his creation for failing?

Why?

The need for a savior is there because you create it. You create it because you borrowed a place of punishment from the Bible that so you can have the impetus that fear brings.

Create the punishment->create the fear->create the need->create the solution.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
Dragoon wrote:jcgadfly

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down. I'm afraid of being less that what God created me to be. I'm afraid of looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior, and seeing His great love for me... and letting Him down in even the slightest way.

 

Some fear may come from terror of a tyrant.

The fear of God stems from loving God.

 

Needing a savior does not require us to 'feel a need to be saved' though. The need is there whether we feel it or not.

 

 

Stockholm syndrom.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Dragoon
Dragoon's picture
Posts: 170
Joined: 2009-05-27
User is offlineOffline
mellestad wrote:Dragoon

mellestad wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down. I'm afraid of being less that what God created me to be. I'm afraid of looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior, and seeing His great love for me... and letting Him down in even the slightest way.

 

Some fear may come from terror of a tyrant.

The fear of God stems from loving God.

 

Needing a savior does not require us to 'feel a need to be saved' though. The need is there whether we feel it or not.

 

 

Stockholm syndrom.

No. Predates Stockholm Syndrome by 2000 years. God is not my 'captor' either... rather I am His willing servant.

Merely because you do not understand something, is that a reason to mock it?


Dragoon
Dragoon's picture
Posts: 170
Joined: 2009-05-27
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:Dragoon

jcgadfly wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down. I'm afraid of being less that what God created me to be. I'm afraid of looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior, and seeing His great love for me... and letting Him down in even the slightest way.

 

Some fear may come from terror of a tyrant.

The fear of God stems from loving God.

 

Needing a savior does not require us to 'feel a need to be saved' though. The need is there whether we feel it or not.

 

So you fear letting down a being who has standards that are impossible for humans to meet? Standards that he ignores but punishes his creation for failing?

Why?

The need for a savior is there because you create it. You create it because you borrowed a place of punishment from the Bible that so you can have the impetus that fear brings.

Create the punishment->create the fear->create the need->create the solution.

A 'standard impossible for humans to meet'? You once attended church... you know the answer.

Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved- you and your household (Acts 16:3). His burden is easy and his yolk is light.

 

Why do you create a false hypothesis to shoot down? I'm here. If you don't understand my thinking, you are free to ask, but please do not imagine your own false analogy of my beliefs.

 

 

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Dragoon wrote:jcgadfly

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down. I'm afraid of being less that what God created me to be. I'm afraid of looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior, and seeing His great love for me... and letting Him down in even the slightest way.

 

Some fear may come from terror of a tyrant.

The fear of God stems from loving God.

 

Needing a savior does not require us to 'feel a need to be saved' though. The need is there whether we feel it or not.

 

So you fear letting down a being who has standards that are impossible for humans to meet? Standards that he ignores but punishes his creation for failing?

Why?

The need for a savior is there because you create it. You create it because you borrowed a place of punishment from the Bible that so you can have the impetus that fear brings.

Create the punishment->create the fear->create the need->create the solution.

A 'standard impossible for humans to meet'? You once attended church... you know the answer.

Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved- you and your household (Acts 16:3). His burden is easy and his yolk is light.

 

Why do you create a false hypothesis to shoot down? I'm here. If you don't understand my thinking, you are free to ask, but please do not imagine your own false analogy of my beliefs.

 

 

 

As I did before, I mean the "you" in a general sense - not a personal one. Many Christians - not you in particular (unless it fits). At present, though, I have a hard time differentiating you from so many pollyanna or cafeteria Christians I've come into contact with.

I see. You're one of those "all you have to do is believe" types. You don't have to bother with, you know, living your faith or any of that crap. You just have to believe really hard and God will make everything easy.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
Dragoon wrote:mellestad

Dragoon wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down. I'm afraid of being less that what God created me to be. I'm afraid of looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior, and seeing His great love for me... and letting Him down in even the slightest way.

 

Some fear may come from terror of a tyrant.

The fear of God stems from loving God.

 

Needing a savior does not require us to 'feel a need to be saved' though. The need is there whether we feel it or not.

 

 

Stockholm syndrom.

No. Predates Stockholm Syndrome by 2000 years. God is not my 'captor' either... rather I am His willing servant.

Merely because you do not understand something, is that a reason to mock it?

 

...Stockholm Syndrome and a cult member.  The main idea behind these religions is that if you do what the man says, even if it is ridiculous, you get a gold star.  If you don't do what he says, you burn in a lake of fire and mew and cray in woe for eternity.  Thanks, but no thanks, it is just too...evil.

 

I'm not mocking it.  I am pointing out that what you are saying, actually looks like Stockholm Syndrome.  You love the man holding a gun to your head because he allowed you to be in a situation where he holds a gun to your head.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
mellestad wrote:Dragoon

mellestad wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down. I'm afraid of being less that what God created me to be. I'm afraid of looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior, and seeing His great love for me... and letting Him down in even the slightest way.

 

Some fear may come from terror of a tyrant.

The fear of God stems from loving God.

 

Needing a savior does not require us to 'feel a need to be saved' though. The need is there whether we feel it or not.

 

 

Stockholm syndrom.

No. Predates Stockholm Syndrome by 2000 years. God is not my 'captor' either... rather I am His willing servant.

Merely because you do not understand something, is that a reason to mock it?

 

...Stockholm Syndrome and a cult member.  The main idea behind these religions is that if you do what the man says, even if it is ridiculous, you get a gold star.  If you don't do what he says, you burn in a lake of fire and mew and cray in woe for eternity.  Thanks, but no thanks, it is just too...evil.

 

I'm not mocking it.  I am pointing out that what you are saying, actually looks like Stockholm Syndrome.  You love the man holding a gun to your head because he allowed you to be in a situation where he holds a gun to your head.

I'm not sure if it's Stockholm, Munchausen's or just a variation of hypochondriasis.

The belief that one has the disease (sin) is so strong that a supernatural solution needed to be created to cure it.

Many ancient civilizations did that - what makes the god of the Hebrews (that they borrowed from the Canaanites) break the mold?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Dragoon
Dragoon's picture
Posts: 170
Joined: 2009-05-27
User is offlineOffline
mellestad wrote:Dragoon

mellestad wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down. I'm afraid of being less that what God created me to be. I'm afraid of looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior, and seeing His great love for me... and letting Him down in even the slightest way.

 

Some fear may come from terror of a tyrant.

The fear of God stems from loving God.

 

Needing a savior does not require us to 'feel a need to be saved' though. The need is there whether we feel it or not.

 

 

Stockholm syndrom.

No. Predates Stockholm Syndrome by 2000 years. God is not my 'captor' either... rather I am His willing servant.

Merely because you do not understand something, is that a reason to mock it?

 

...Stockholm Syndrome and a cult member.  The main idea behind these religions is that if you do what the man says, even if it is ridiculous, you get a gold star.  If you don't do what he says, you burn in a lake of fire and mew and cray in woe for eternity.  Thanks, but no thanks, it is just too...evil.

 

I'm not mocking it.  I am pointing out that what you are saying, actually looks like Stockholm Syndrome.  You love the man holding a gun to your head because he allowed you to be in a situation where he holds a gun to your head.

Calling someone a 'cult member' because you don't understand their ideas is mocking though. When you don't understand another person's perspective, ridiculing or otherwise disparaging their position is hardly helpful.

 

Back to the issue though. You're missing the point, because your analogy is misplaced.

The existance of 'hell' is merely part of a larger picture. Let me try to explain.

God is God. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. The chasm between heaven and hell does not exist because God desires anyone to perish, but because of the very nature of God. God is holy... in Him there is no darkness. When darkness even approaches him, it ceases to be.

If we are 'dark' (in sin), we cannot exist with God, because of His very nature.

When God warns us of hell, I don't see it as a threat, so much as a simple statement of reality. If you go on this path, you will die.

 

It is not a man with a 'gun'.

Its a man warning you that if you continue down the road ahead, there's certain death. He not only warns you, but invites you to live in his home, though you do not deserve it.

If you think he has a gun though, then he will not force you from the path you've chosen.

 

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. (2Peter 3:9)

 


Dragoon
Dragoon's picture
Posts: 170
Joined: 2009-05-27
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:Dragoon

jcgadfly wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

So you fear letting down a being who has standards that are impossible for humans to meet? Standards that he ignores but punishes his creation for failing?

Why?

The need for a savior is there because you create it. You create it because you borrowed a place of punishment from the Bible that so you can have the impetus that fear brings.

Create the punishment->create the fear->create the need->create the solution.

A 'standard impossible for humans to meet'? You once attended church... you know the answer.

Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved- you and your household (Acts 16:3). His burden is easy and his yolk is light.

 

Why do you create a false hypothesis to shoot down? I'm here. If you don't understand my thinking, you are free to ask, but please do not imagine your own false analogy of my beliefs.

 

 

 

As I did before, I mean the "you" in a general sense - not a personal one. Many Christians - not you in particular (unless it fits). At present, though, I have a hard time differentiating you from so many pollyanna or cafeteria Christians I've come into contact with.

I see. You're one of those "all you have to do is believe" types. You don't have to bother with, you know, living your faith or any of that crap. You just have to believe really hard and God will make everything easy.

 

Wow. There you go again. Have I at any time said or implied that 'living my faith' is not important, or that God 'makes everything easy' if I believe real hard?

 

JC.... I am HERE. I can tell you plainly what I believe, and the reasons for the faith I have. All you need to do is ask. Please stop manufacturing your own false images of what I believe.


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Dragoon wrote:jcgadfly

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

So you fear letting down a being who has standards that are impossible for humans to meet? Standards that he ignores but punishes his creation for failing?

Why?

The need for a savior is there because you create it. You create it because you borrowed a place of punishment from the Bible that so you can have the impetus that fear brings.

Create the punishment->create the fear->create the need->create the solution.

A 'standard impossible for humans to meet'? You once attended church... you know the answer.

Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved- you and your household (Acts 16:3). His burden is easy and his yolk is light.

 

Why do you create a false hypothesis to shoot down? I'm here. If you don't understand my thinking, you are free to ask, but please do not imagine your own false analogy of my beliefs.

 

 

 

As I did before, I mean the "you" in a general sense - not a personal one. Many Christians - not you in particular (unless it fits). At present, though, I have a hard time differentiating you from so many pollyanna or cafeteria Christians I've come into contact with.

I see. You're one of those "all you have to do is believe" types. You don't have to bother with, you know, living your faith or any of that crap. You just have to believe really hard and God will make everything easy.

 

Wow. There you go again. Have I at any time said or implied that 'living my faith' is not important, or that God 'makes everything easy' if I believe real hard?

 

JC.... I am HERE. I can tell you plainly what I believe, and the reasons for the faith I have. All you need to do is ask. Please stop manufacturing your own false images of what I believe.

I'm working from your Bible - do you believe something differently from it?

If the Bible doesn't seem to think living your faith isn't important, doesn't that mean adding that detail is adding to the Bible?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
Dragoon wrote:mellestad

Dragoon wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Dragoon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

To need a savior, one must feel a need to be saved. To need to be saved, one must live in fear.

What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid of letting God down. I'm afraid of being less that what God created me to be. I'm afraid of looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior, and seeing His great love for me... and letting Him down in even the slightest way.

 

Some fear may come from terror of a tyrant.

The fear of God stems from loving God.

 

Needing a savior does not require us to 'feel a need to be saved' though. The need is there whether we feel it or not.

 

 

Stockholm syndrom.

No. Predates Stockholm Syndrome by 2000 years. God is not my 'captor' either... rather I am His willing servant.

Merely because you do not understand something, is that a reason to mock it?

 

...Stockholm Syndrome and a cult member.  The main idea behind these religions is that if you do what the man says, even if it is ridiculous, you get a gold star.  If you don't do what he says, you burn in a lake of fire and mew and cray in woe for eternity.  Thanks, but no thanks, it is just too...evil.

 

I'm not mocking it.  I am pointing out that what you are saying, actually looks like Stockholm Syndrome.  You love the man holding a gun to your head because he allowed you to be in a situation where he holds a gun to your head.

Calling someone a 'cult member' because you don't understand their ideas is mocking though. When you don't understand another person's perspective, ridiculing or otherwise disparaging their position is hardly helpful.

Back to the issue though. You're missing the point, because your analogy is misplaced.

The existance of 'hell' is merely part of a larger picture. Let me try to explain.

God is God. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. The chasm between heaven and hell does not exist because God desires anyone to perish, but because of the very nature of God. God is holy... in Him there is no darkness. When darkness even approaches him, it ceases to be.

If we are 'dark' (in sin), we cannot exist with God, because of His very nature.

When God warns us of hell, I don't see it as a threat, so much as a simple statement of reality. If you go on this path, you will die.

It is not a man with a 'gun'.

Its a man warning you that if you continue down the road ahead, there's certain death. He not only warns you, but invites you to live in his home, though you do not deserve it.

If you think he has a gun though, then he will not force you from the path you've chosen.

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. (2Peter 3:9)

 

I believe I do understand your position, I was a theist surrounded by theism for the majority of my life.  I reject your position as false.  The idea that Hell is the absence of God is pure speculation.  Honestly, I am not interested in going after that line of reasoning though because it is not germane to the converstation...I'm not going to argue with you about your non-existent idea of eternal torture.

The entire construct you have built is simply a device to defend against rationally investigating your belief system at face value.  It doesn't make sense to theologians have to come up with ideas to justify central dogma.  To even discuss this with you is giving you too much leeway, but I try anyway, just to point out how much contradiction is built into your belief system.

 

Again, you do not have free will if there is an axe hanging over your head.  According to theism, God created Man, the Universe and the Axe...then liberally applies the axe when man interacts with the universe according to his God given nature.  Absurd.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
We are not having this

We are not having this discussion on two seperate threads Dragoon, so I won't respond to this thread anymore.  If you want to continue this, use the other one where we are re-hashing the same argument.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
Kapkao wrote:Fonzie

Kapkao wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

My gospel is non-existent...

Faith in jesus never worked for me... faith in myself always has!

 

Kapkao,

Please elaborate on how faith in yourself has always worked - and, how long is "always" by now?

 

 

 


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
NoDeity wrote:Fonzie

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:
  But you never take the ball and make a run, and show the brighter atheist path, the plan, the play.  It's a religion based on what you don't have, don't like, don't respect, and don't know.  Trot out your savior and your salvation.  Is there nothing in your box? 

Reality.  Reality is that which you claim but can only pretend to have.  In Jesus-speak, your reality is that which you have by faith.  In rational human being speak, you pretend to have reality but your claim of reality is unsupported by and is in violation of the very thing that has made it possible for humanity to progress to where it is today and, therefore, I consider your claim of reality to be an immoral one because it is contrary to what is necessary for human survival and advancement: reason.

It used to be that, if you wanted to have three children, you'd better have five because two would probably not survive.  It used to be that, if you wanted to have children, it was likely that you would need to marry more than once because there was a pretty good chance that at least on of your wives would die in childbirth.  Today, in the civilized west, we are shocked when a child dies before the age of three or when a woman dies while giving birth.  It was not always so.  What made the difference?  Prayer?  Faith?  Sing-alongs? 

No!  Reason.  Scientific methods of investigation.  Dedication to cold hard facts.  These are the things that have made it possible for more human beings to love and live with their loved ones.  That is what is in our box: the only proven means of improving humanity's lot in this, our one and only life.

I already know what is in your box: delusions, lies, false hope, false promises.  Holy shit.  It seems to me that people would have to be crazy or to have given up on life for them to prefer your box to ours.

 

 

NoDeity,

You're not being reasonable.  The things you mentioned are just jobs.  I function at my job, you function at your job, the scientist functions at his.  I'm reasonable at what I do and I assume you are at what you do. 

One of the doctors came up with a new idea after the Civil War - that there was such a thing as germs (causing miscarriages like you mentioned).  Other reasonable doctors got him thrown out of the doctor's club and later sent to an asylum for his new idea. 

You are unreasonable thinking that faith in Jesus keeps a person from doing his job.  It helps in every way.  You claim to worship at the altar of reason then like the doctors assign faith to the asylum.  But wisdom is known by all her children.  You're playing on one string and it's not attached at one end.

 

 

 

 


NoDeity
Bronze Member
NoDeity's picture
Posts: 268
Joined: 2009-10-13
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:NoDeity

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:
  But you never take the ball and make a run, and show the brighter atheist path, the plan, the play.  It's a religion based on what you don't have, don't like, don't respect, and don't know.  Trot out your savior and your salvation.  Is there nothing in your box? 

Reality.  Reality is that which you claim but can only pretend to have.  In Jesus-speak, your reality is that which you have by faith.  In rational human being speak, you pretend to have reality but your claim of reality is unsupported by and is in violation of the very thing that has made it possible for humanity to progress to where it is today and, therefore, I consider your claim of reality to be an immoral one because it is contrary to what is necessary for human survival and advancement: reason.

It used to be that, if you wanted to have three children, you'd better have five because two would probably not survive.  It used to be that, if you wanted to have children, it was likely that you would need to marry more than once because there was a pretty good chance that at least on of your wives would die in childbirth.  Today, in the civilized west, we are shocked when a child dies before the age of three or when a woman dies while giving birth.  It was not always so.  What made the difference?  Prayer?  Faith?  Sing-alongs? 

No!  Reason.  Scientific methods of investigation.  Dedication to cold hard facts.  These are the things that have made it possible for more human beings to love and live with their loved ones.  That is what is in our box: the only proven means of improving humanity's lot in this, our one and only life.

I already know what is in your box: delusions, lies, false hope, false promises.  Holy shit.  It seems to me that people would have to be crazy or to have given up on life for them to prefer your box to ours. 

 

NoDeity,

You're not being reasonable. 

You are failing to get the point.  You asked me what we have to offer and I told you that what we offer is the only thing that has demonstrated the ability to improve the lot of humanity.

 

Fonzie wrote:
The things you mentioned are just jobs.  I function at my job, you function at your job, the scientist functions at his.  I'm reasonable at what I do and I assume you are at what you do. 

One of the doctors came up with a new idea after the Civil War - that there was such a thing as germs (causing miscarriages like you mentioned).  Other reasonable doctors got him thrown out of the doctor's club and later sent to an asylum for his new idea. 

You are unreasonable thinking that faith in Jesus keeps a person from doing his job.

I'll repeat myself: You are failing to get the point.  You asked me what we have to offer and I told you that what we offer is the only thing that has demonstrated the ability to improve the lot of humanity. 

The faith in Jesus that you hold so dear may make you feel better about your life but, beyond that, it offers nothing of value. 

 

Fonzie wrote:
It helps in every way.

Faith in Jesus helps in every way?  I think you're delusional.

 

Fonzie wrote:
You claim to worship at the altar of reason

Fuck.  I really, really hate it when people misrepresent what I say.  I didn't say a fucking thing about worship.  I do not worship.  That's a concept that belongs to your sick ideology.

 

Fonzie wrote:
then like the doctors assign faith to the asylum.  But wisdom is known by all her children.  You're playing on one string and it's not attached at one end.

Holy shit.  What a pompous ass.  You really have no idea how arrogant you're being, do you.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
NoDeity wrote:Fonzie

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:
  But you never take the ball and make a run, and show the brighter atheist path, the plan, the play.  It's a religion based on what you don't have, don't like, don't respect, and don't know.  Trot out your savior and your salvation.  Is there nothing in your box? 

Reality.  Reality is that which you claim but can only pretend to have.  In Jesus-speak, your reality is that which you have by faith.  In rational human being speak, you pretend to have reality but your claim of reality is unsupported by and is in violation of the very thing that has made it possible for humanity to progress to where it is today and, therefore, I consider your claim of reality to be an immoral one because it is contrary to what is necessary for human survival and advancement: reason.

It used to be that, if you wanted to have three children, you'd better have five because two would probably not survive.  It used to be that, if you wanted to have children, it was likely that you would need to marry more than once because there was a pretty good chance that at least on of your wives would die in childbirth.  Today, in the civilized west, we are shocked when a child dies before the age of three or when a woman dies while giving birth.  It was not always so.  What made the difference?  Prayer?  Faith?  Sing-alongs? 

No!  Reason.  Scientific methods of investigation.  Dedication to cold hard facts.  These are the things that have made it possible for more human beings to love and live with their loved ones.  That is what is in our box: the only proven means of improving humanity's lot in this, our one and only life.

I already know what is in your box: delusions, lies, false hope, false promises.  Holy shit.  It seems to me that people would have to be crazy or to have given up on life for them to prefer your box to ours. 

 

NoDeity,

You're not being reasonable. 

You are failing to get the point.  You asked me what we have to offer and I told you that what we offer is the only thing that has demonstrated the ability to improve the lot of humanity.

 

Fonzie wrote:
The things you mentioned are just jobs.  I function at my job, you function at your job, the scientist functions at his.  I'm reasonable at what I do and I assume you are at what you do. 

One of the doctors came up with a new idea after the Civil War - that there was such a thing as germs (causing miscarriages like you mentioned).  Other reasonable doctors got him thrown out of the doctor's club and later sent to an asylum for his new idea. 

You are unreasonable thinking that faith in Jesus keeps a person from doing his job.

I'll repeat myself: You are failing to get the point.  You asked me what we have to offer and I told you that what we offer is the only thing that has demonstrated the ability to improve the lot of humanity. 

The faith in Jesus that you hold so dear may make you feel better about your life but, beyond that, it offers nothing of value. 

 

Fonzie wrote:
It helps in every way.

Faith in Jesus helps in every way?  I think you're delusional.

 

Fonzie wrote:
You claim to worship at the altar of reason

Fuck.  I really, really hate it when people misrepresent what I say.  I didn't say a fucking thing about worship.  I do not worship.  That's a concept that belongs to your sick ideology.

 

Fonzie wrote:
then like the doctors assign faith to the asylum.  But wisdom is known by all her children.  You're playing on one string and it's not attached at one end.

Holy shit.  What a pompous ass.  You really have no idea how arrogant you're being, do you.

 

 

NoDeity,

 

Have you ever heard the reasoning that says what ticks you off is something you're doing but not facing?  Such it may be with arrogance and you.  How is it that your slang is intimately connected with reason?  I think there is a part of you you're not facing.  Sure I could have the wrong attitude on anything but your flaming arrows don't show me your reasoning. 

You have your perspective and I have mine.  You understand my perspective (you say) because you once had it then quit (rather you became "enlightened" as you would say, smarter, better, more reasonable). 

Reason is not apart from faith.  You have a thing against faith - maybe because it reflects your failing with it, but I have tons of reasons why my faith in Christ is real.  Maybe you go to your reason and continually get guidance and food for thought from it, it nourishes you and guides you and makes you happy.  I get it all from Christ - faith is just the connection - but I glean the best of wheat every time I read or meditate on the Scriptures.  They light my way, they give me manna from heaven, water from the Rock which is Christ. 

I worship Christ, yes.  He's the Greatest.  Some day you will bow before Him.  You should make peace while going to court, before you see my "delusion" (as you say) first hand.  Your position on your throne of reason is shaky indeed.  Faithful are the wounds of a friend NoDeity - those who share your disdain for Christ and the Word of God give you the kiss of enemies.  You can rage and laugh but that's an eternal fact soon to be seen over the horizon.

 

"A stone is heavy, and sand is weighty,"  (God)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


NoDeity
Bronze Member
NoDeity's picture
Posts: 268
Joined: 2009-10-13
User is offlineOffline
[shrug]  There is obviously

[shrug]  There is obviously no reasoning with you.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


Anonymouse
atheist
Posts: 1687
Joined: 2008-05-04
User is offlineOffline
NoDeity wrote:[shrug] 

NoDeity wrote:

[shrug]  There is obviously no reasoning with you.

 

Hey, you were warned.

Still, nice of you to give him a chance.


NoDeity
Bronze Member
NoDeity's picture
Posts: 268
Joined: 2009-10-13
User is offlineOffline
Anonymouse wrote:NoDeity

Anonymouse wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

[shrug]  There is obviously no reasoning with you.

 

Hey, you were warned.

Still, nice of you to give him a chance.

lol

You were right.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
NO GUITAR BASHING

NoDeity wrote:

[shrug]  There is obviously no reasoning with you.

 

NoDeity,

Actually this is a thing you aren't facing in yourself.  Since you put the direction and I assume hope and expectation of your life in reason you are obligated to accept all reasoning or deny yourself direction and hope.  But you quickly throw up your hands and throw a fit when your veneer of reason is challenged. 

How reasonable is it to think that the world and its inhabitants and it's happenings don't exist for an ultimate reason?  Don't break your guitar, just consider how futile your choice of reason for Captain of your life is - especially when the burden of the readout is on your shoulders. 

To put faith in Christ and what He's done is life and peace and hope - not in yourself though.  It's all found in Christ. 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:NoDeity

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

[shrug]  There is obviously no reasoning with you.

 

NoDeity,

Actually this is a thing you aren't facing in yourself.  Since you put the direction and I assume hope and expectation of your life in reason you are obligated to accept all reasoning or deny yourself direction and hope.  But you quickly throw up your hands and throw a fit when your veneer of reason is challenged. 

How reasonable is it to think that the world and its inhabitants and it's happenings don't exist for an ultimate reason?  Don't break your guitar, just consider how futile your choice of reason for Captain of your life is - especially when the burden of the readout is on your shoulders. 

To put faith in Christ and what He's done is life and peace and hope - not in yourself though.  It's all found in Christ. 

You're confusing tool use with rulership, Fonzie.

You use Christ as a hammer and claim that the hammer swings you. That makes sense for you - that way you can do damage and deny the responsibility and the consequences of your actions. "God is working through you", right?

NoDeity is using reason as a scalpel and has no problem differentiating the user from the tool. That way he is fully aware of the responsibility and the power he holds.

You pay lip service to being accountable for your actions but use God as a shield to protect you from that same accountability.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


NoDeity
Bronze Member
NoDeity's picture
Posts: 268
Joined: 2009-10-13
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:NoDeity

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

[shrug]  There is obviously no reasoning with you.

 

NoDeity,

Actually this is a thing you aren't facing in yourself.  Since you put the direction and I assume hope and expectation of your life in reason you are obligated to accept all reasoning or deny yourself direction and hope.  But you quickly throw up your hands and throw a fit when your veneer of reason is challenged.

When you can bring yourself to present a rational argument, I'll be willing to consider it.  You haven't done that.

 

Fonzie wrote:
How reasonable is it to think that the world and its inhabitants and it's happenings don't exist for an ultimate reason?

I'd say it's very reasonable because I know of no good reason to think that there is any "ultimate reason".  You seem to be implying that an "ultimate reason" is necessary for existence but you don't seem to be offering anything in support of that besides personal incredulity at the idea of there being no "ultimate reason".

 

Fonzie wrote:
Don't break your guitar, just consider how futile your choice of reason for Captain of your life is - especially when the burden of the readout is on your shoulders.

To put faith in Christ and what He's done is life and peace and hope - not in yourself though.  It's all found in Christ.

Been there, done that, eventually got over it.  In my experience, it is the very faith that you laud in which true meaninglessness and emptiness reside.  My deconversion was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
YOU YOU - YOUYOUYOUYOUYOUYOUYOUYOU

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

[shrug]  There is obviously no reasoning with you.

 

NoDeity,

Actually this is a thing you aren't facing in yourself.  Since you put the direction and I assume hope and expectation of your life in reason you are obligated to accept all reasoning or deny yourself direction and hope.  But you quickly throw up your hands and throw a fit when your veneer of reason is challenged.

When you can bring yourself to present a rational argument, I'll be willing to consider it.  You haven't done that.

 

Fonzie wrote:
How reasonable is it to think that the world and its inhabitants and it's happenings don't exist for an ultimate reason?

I'd say it's very reasonable because I know of no good reason to think that there is any "ultimate reason".  You seem to be implying that an "ultimate reason" is necessary for existence but you don't seem to be offering anything in support of that besides personal incredulity at the idea of there being no "ultimate reason".

 

Fonzie wrote:
Don't break your guitar, just consider how futile your choice of reason for Captain of your life is - especially when the burden of the readout is on your shoulders.

To put faith in Christ and what He's done is life and peace and hope - not in yourself though.  It's all found in Christ.

Been there, done that, eventually got over it.  In my experience, it is the very faith that you laud in which true meaninglessness and emptiness reside.  My deconversion was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

 

 

NoDeity,

You illustrate how a man's pride is a barrier to salvation.  Flesh is like grass and the fancy part like flowers but the wind blows on the grass and the flower withers.  Thus the Holy Spirit and the salvation by faith in Christ are perfect for destroying the pride of man.  The salvation that lives by faith in Jesus Christ can't exist except in a heart born of the Holy Spirit.  The man who glories in himself and what he can do doesn't receive the Gift of God. 

Thus the world is set up as a winnowing floor.  God gave it perfect to man - there is still enough traces of that to be seen.  Man broke it.  God has the ark of salvation in Christ set up for those who will to board.  The wheat are taken to the granary, the chaff are blown away and burned. 

The thinking of the natural man is to glorify himself and put trust in his achievement.  Those who are born of the Spirit understand the difference.

 

"He Who sits in the heavens laughs; the LORD has them in derision.  Then He will speak to them in His wrath, and terrify them in His fury, saying, 'I have set My KING on Zion, My Holy Hill'".   (God)

 

 

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Strange, Fonzie.Your pride

Strange, Fonzie.

Your pride actually got you your salvation - it even helped to create your god.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


ex-minister
atheistHigh Level ModeratorSilver Member
ex-minister's picture
Posts: 1708
Joined: 2010-01-29
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:NoDeity

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

[shrug]  There is obviously no reasoning with you.

 

NoDeity,

Actually this is a thing you aren't facing in yourself.  Since you put the direction and I assume hope and expectation of your life in reason you are obligated to accept all reasoning or deny yourself direction and hope.  But you quickly throw up your hands and throw a fit when your veneer of reason is challenged.

When you can bring yourself to present a rational argument, I'll be willing to consider it.  You haven't done that.

 

Fonzie wrote:
How reasonable is it to think that the world and its inhabitants and it's happenings don't exist for an ultimate reason?

I'd say it's very reasonable because I know of no good reason to think that there is any "ultimate reason".  You seem to be implying that an "ultimate reason" is necessary for existence but you don't seem to be offering anything in support of that besides personal incredulity at the idea of there being no "ultimate reason".

 

Fonzie wrote:
Don't break your guitar, just consider how futile your choice of reason for Captain of your life is - especially when the burden of the readout is on your shoulders.

To put faith in Christ and what He's done is life and peace and hope - not in yourself though.  It's all found in Christ.

Been there, done that, eventually got over it.  In my experience, it is the very faith that you laud in which true meaninglessness and emptiness reside.  My deconversion was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

 

 

NoDeity,

You illustrate how a man's pride is a barrier to salvation.  Flesh is like grass and the fancy part like flowers but the wind blows on the grass and the flower withers.  Thus the Holy Spirit and the salvation by faith in Christ are perfect for destroying the pride of man.  The salvation that lives by faith in Jesus Christ can't exist except in a heart born of the Holy Spirit.  The man who glories in himself and what he can do doesn't receive the Gift of God. 

Thus the world is set up as a winnowing floor.  God gave it perfect to man - there is still enough traces of that to be seen.  Man broke it.  God has the ark of salvation in Christ set up for those who will to board.  The wheat are taken to the granary, the chaff are blown away and burned. 

The thinking of the natural man is to glorify himself and put trust in his achievement.  Those who are born of the Spirit understand the difference.

 

"He Who sits in the heavens laughs; the LORD has them in derision.  Then He will speak to them in His wrath, and terrify them in His fury, saying, 'I have set My KING on Zion, My Holy Hill'".   (God)

 

 

 

Fonzie, 

From the Holy Quran Surah 2

161. Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;

162. They will abide therein: Their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).

163. And your Allah is One Allah. There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

 

Fonzie worship the one and only true God, Allah, or be cursed.

Allah will accept you if you submit and you will find real truth and happiness. He will show his great mercy.

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


NoDeity
Bronze Member
NoDeity's picture
Posts: 268
Joined: 2009-10-13
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:NoDeity

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

[shrug]  There is obviously no reasoning with you.

 

NoDeity,

Actually this is a thing you aren't facing in yourself.  Since you put the direction and I assume hope and expectation of your life in reason you are obligated to accept all reasoning or deny yourself direction and hope.  But you quickly throw up your hands and throw a fit when your veneer of reason is challenged.

When you can bring yourself to present a rational argument, I'll be willing to consider it.  You haven't done that.

 

Fonzie wrote:
How reasonable is it to think that the world and its inhabitants and it's happenings don't exist for an ultimate reason?

I'd say it's very reasonable because I know of no good reason to think that there is any "ultimate reason".  You seem to be implying that an "ultimate reason" is necessary for existence but you don't seem to be offering anything in support of that besides personal incredulity at the idea of there being no "ultimate reason".

 

Fonzie wrote:
Don't break your guitar, just consider how futile your choice of reason for Captain of your life is - especially when the burden of the readout is on your shoulders.

To put faith in Christ and what He's done is life and peace and hope - not in yourself though.  It's all found in Christ.

Been there, done that, eventually got over it.  In my experience, it is the very faith that you laud in which true meaninglessness and emptiness reside.  My deconversion was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

 

 

NoDeity,

You illustrate how a man's pride is a barrier to salvation.  Flesh is like grass and the fancy part like flowers but the wind blows on the grass and the flower withers.  Thus the Holy Spirit and the salvation by faith in Christ are perfect for destroying the pride of man.  The salvation that lives by faith in Jesus Christ can't exist except in a heart born of the Holy Spirit.  The man who glories in himself and what he can do doesn't receive the Gift of God. 

Thus the world is set up as a winnowing floor.  God gave it perfect to man - there is still enough traces of that to be seen.  Man broke it.  God has the ark of salvation in Christ set up for those who will to board.  The wheat are taken to the granary, the chaff are blown away and burned. 

The thinking of the natural man is to glorify himself and put trust in his achievement.  Those who are born of the Spirit understand the difference. 

"He Who sits in the heavens laughs; the LORD has them in derision.  Then He will speak to them in His wrath, and terrify them in His fury, saying, 'I have set My KING on Zion, My Holy Hill'".   (God)

Fonzie, you illustrate how a theist's pride is a barrier to reality.  The man who is humble and intellectually honest uses reason and evidence to find out what is and isn't real and accepts those results even when it goes contrary to his preferred beliefs and his preconceptions.  You, however, claim to know reality and this claim is based on your personal preference.  You've made it quite clear that you believe not because you have a sound rational basis for your beliefs but because you want to believe.  It doesn't matter what evidence or reasoning is put before you; you will ignore all that and hold fast to your preferred belief -- it "works" for you.  For you, your preference trumps reality.  What incredible hubris!

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
SHADOW VERSUS SUBSTANCE

 

 

NoDeity,

What if you were hungry so I played you a tune or showed you a picture of food or told the reasoning behind food and energy.  Such is your approach to the hunger of the inner man, the soul.  You are focused on the shadow and ignoring both the substance and the light source.  The only thing that will satisfy the soul is faith in Jesus Christ.  The only thing that will give the guilty conscience peace through faith seeing Him bleed and die for your sin. 

This can only happen if you are "born of the Spirit".  The Spirit would blow on your pride and make the things you trust in now "wither" and reset your focus on Jesus and Him crucified.  Your faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified would be counted as righteousness - not your righteousness, but instead God's Righteousness.  This is the only way salvation or peace of conscience have ever happened.  The "born from above" part comes from above, from God.  You have to realize that you can't navigate your ship through reason or hoist your own sail or propel your ship yourself. 

The reasoning of this isn't supported by the natural thinking of man - or polls.  It is supported by the Life that the Spirit awakens in a man, the life that is life indeed.  The man that has life in the Spirit and believes in Christ and Him Crucified has the witness in himself.  While it is a state that has to be defended spiritually with hand to hand combat, it is a secure state, a state of joy, purpose and love in its true definition. 

 

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie

Fonzie wrote:

 

 

NoDeity,

What if you were hungry so I played you a tune or showed you a picture of food or told the reasoning behind food and energy.

 

You mean, like you've been doing since you've been here? You know this great restaurant with fantastic food and you show us the menu. Then you say that all you have to do is sign a lifetime agreement to serve as the owner's kitchen help...oh and we also have to look and sound just like yuo since you are the owner's favorite employee...and we can't eat any of the food in the restaurant until after we're dead.

Quote:
Such is your approach to the hunger of the inner man, the soul.  You are focused on the shadow and ignoring both the substance and the light source.  The only thing that will satisfy the soul is faith in Jesus Christ.  The only thing that will give the guilty conscience peace through faith seeing Him bleed and die for your sin.

You remind of an anorexic who looks like a walking corpse but insists she's pretty and healthy.  You believe you're eating at a sumptuous table but don't see the maggots and rotten places in your food. As for watching Jesus bleed and die for me - that's just freaking morbid. While you are crucifying Christ afresh by taking advantage of his gift of forgiveness (sinning, asking for forgiveness and sinning again), do you wank as well?

Quote:
This can only happen if you are "born of the Spirit".  The Spirit would blow on your pride and make the things you trust in now "wither" and reset your focus on Jesus and Him crucified.  Your faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified would be counted as righteousness - not your righteousness, but instead God's Righteousness.  This is the only way salvation or peace of conscience have ever happened.  The "born from above" part comes from above, from God.  You have to realize that you can't navigate your ship through reason or hoist your own sail or propel your ship yourself.

You mean the way the spirit has blown on your pride and made it grow? The way that God has reset your focus on yourself and how much better you are than the rest of us, Pharisee?

 

Quote:
The reasoning of this isn't supported by the natural thinking of man - or polls.  It is supported by the Life that the Spirit awakens in a man, the life that is life indeed.  The man that has life in the Spirit and believes in Christ and Him Crucified has the witness in himself.  While it is a state that has to be defended spiritually with hand to hand combat, it is a secure state, a state of joy, purpose and love in its true definition. 

If this is the way that you choose to show how you and God love me - please, I beg you - hate me and wish for my destruction. Make my death and eternal torment your ultimate goal.

You'd be more honest with me than you've ever been.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


ex-minister
atheistHigh Level ModeratorSilver Member
ex-minister's picture
Posts: 1708
Joined: 2010-01-29
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:The only thing

Fonzie wrote:

The only thing that will satisfy the soul is faith in Jesus Christ.  The only thing that will give the guilty conscience peace through faith seeing Him bleed and die for your sin. 

 

Sorry that is backwards. You get a guilty conscience from watching Him bleed and die because you think it has something to do with playing with yourself. I didn't make Adam eat an apple nor did I force Christ to commit suicide for me, so why would I feel guilty? If someone tried to commit suicide over me I would call the asylum to come pick them up. They need help.

What made you feel so guilty?

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


NoDeity
Bronze Member
NoDeity's picture
Posts: 268
Joined: 2009-10-13
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie

Fonzie wrote:

 

 

NoDeity,

What if you were hungry so I played you a tune or showed you a picture of food or told the reasoning behind food and energy.  Such is your approach to the hunger of the inner man, the soul.  You are focused on the shadow and ignoring both the substance and the light source.  The only thing that will satisfy the soul is faith in Jesus Christ.  The only thing that will give the guilty conscience peace through faith seeing Him bleed and die for your sin. 

This can only happen if you are "born of the Spirit".  The Spirit would blow on your pride and make the things you trust in now "wither" and reset your focus on Jesus and Him crucified.  Your faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified would be counted as righteousness - not your righteousness, but instead God's Righteousness.  This is the only way salvation or peace of conscience have ever happened.  The "born from above" part comes from above, from God.  You have to realize that you can't navigate your ship through reason or hoist your own sail or propel your ship yourself. 

The reasoning of this isn't supported by the natural thinking of man - or polls.  It is supported by the Life that the Spirit awakens in a man, the life that is life indeed.  The man that has life in the Spirit and believes in Christ and Him Crucified has the witness in himself.  While it is a state that has to be defended spiritually with hand to hand combat, it is a secure state, a state of joy, purpose and love in its true definition.  

What if you were lonely and I offered you an Imaginary Friend?

I don't offer more than what can be had while you offer only that which cannot be had.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
NOT FEELING

ex-minister wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

The only thing that will satisfy the soul is faith in Jesus Christ.  The only thing that will give the guilty conscience peace through faith seeing Him bleed and die for your sin. 

 

Sorry that is backwards. You get a guilty conscience from watching Him bleed and die because you think it has something to do with playing with yourself. I didn't make Adam eat an apple nor did I force Christ to commit suicide for me, so why would I feel guilty? If someone tried to commit suicide over me I would call the asylum to come pick them up. They need help.

What made you feel so guilty?

 

ex-whatever,

What made me guilty was not a feeling but a real sin-wounded conscience.  Thanks be to God the blood of Jesus has healed it.  I am totally at peace yet at work, in fellowship with God through His grace still remembering what it was like to be where you are, on level ground yet watching the road, secure yet on guard for the enemy, working but understanding all glory is Christ's, well fed with manna from heaven and water from the Rock.  

You're part of a group that said Jesus had a demon when He was on the earth.  They either became enlightened or they're lost forever.  Hopefully you will come to be more wise and enlightened.

 

 


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
;)

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

 

 

NoDeity,

What if you were hungry so I played you a tune or showed you a picture of food or told the reasoning behind food and energy.

 

You mean, like you've been doing since you've been here? You know this great restaurant with fantastic food and you show us the menu. Then you say that all you have to do is sign a lifetime agreement to serve as the owner's kitchen help...oh and we also have to look and sound just like yuo since you are the owner's favorite employee...and we can't eat any of the food in the restaurant until after we're dead.

Quote:
Such is your approach to the hunger of the inner man, the soul.  You are focused on the shadow and ignoring both the substance and the light source.  The only thing that will satisfy the soul is faith in Jesus Christ.  The only thing that will give the guilty conscience peace through faith seeing Him bleed and die for your sin.

You remind of an anorexic who looks like a walking corpse but insists she's pretty and healthy.  You believe you're eating at a sumptuous table but don't see the maggots and rotten places in your food. As for watching Jesus bleed and die for me - that's just freaking morbid. While you are crucifying Christ afresh by taking advantage of his gift of forgiveness (sinning, asking for forgiveness and sinning again), do you wank as well?

Quote:
This can only happen if you are "born of the Spirit".  The Spirit would blow on your pride and make the things you trust in now "wither" and reset your focus on Jesus and Him crucified.  Your faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified would be counted as righteousness - not your righteousness, but instead God's Righteousness.  This is the only way salvation or peace of conscience have ever happened.  The "born from above" part comes from above, from God.  You have to realize that you can't navigate your ship through reason or hoist your own sail or propel your ship yourself.

You mean the way the spirit has blown on your pride and made it grow? The way that God has reset your focus on yourself and how much better you are than the rest of us, Pharisee?

 

Quote:
The reasoning of this isn't supported by the natural thinking of man - or polls.  It is supported by the Life that the Spirit awakens in a man, the life that is life indeed.  The man that has life in the Spirit and believes in Christ and Him Crucified has the witness in himself.  While it is a state that has to be defended spiritually with hand to hand combat, it is a secure state, a state of joy, purpose and love in its true definition. 

If this is the way that you choose to show how you and God love me - please, I beg you - hate me and wish for my destruction. Make my death and eternal torment your ultimate goal.

You'd be more honest with me than you've ever been.

 

JcGadfly,

I think you've expressed yourself pretty well.  Have a nice.....day. 

 

 

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

 

 

NoDeity,

What if you were hungry so I played you a tune or showed you a picture of food or told the reasoning behind food and energy.

 

You mean, like you've been doing since you've been here? You know this great restaurant with fantastic food and you show us the menu. Then you say that all you have to do is sign a lifetime agreement to serve as the owner's kitchen help...oh and we also have to look and sound just like yuo since you are the owner's favorite employee...and we can't eat any of the food in the restaurant until after we're dead.

Quote:
Such is your approach to the hunger of the inner man, the soul.  You are focused on the shadow and ignoring both the substance and the light source.  The only thing that will satisfy the soul is faith in Jesus Christ.  The only thing that will give the guilty conscience peace through faith seeing Him bleed and die for your sin.

You remind of an anorexic who looks like a walking corpse but insists she's pretty and healthy.  You believe you're eating at a sumptuous table but don't see the maggots and rotten places in your food. As for watching Jesus bleed and die for me - that's just freaking morbid. While you are crucifying Christ afresh by taking advantage of his gift of forgiveness (sinning, asking for forgiveness and sinning again), do you wank as well?

Quote:
This can only happen if you are "born of the Spirit".  The Spirit would blow on your pride and make the things you trust in now "wither" and reset your focus on Jesus and Him crucified.  Your faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified would be counted as righteousness - not your righteousness, but instead God's Righteousness.  This is the only way salvation or peace of conscience have ever happened.  The "born from above" part comes from above, from God.  You have to realize that you can't navigate your ship through reason or hoist your own sail or propel your ship yourself.

You mean the way the spirit has blown on your pride and made it grow? The way that God has reset your focus on yourself and how much better you are than the rest of us, Pharisee?

 

Quote:
The reasoning of this isn't supported by the natural thinking of man - or polls.  It is supported by the Life that the Spirit awakens in a man, the life that is life indeed.  The man that has life in the Spirit and believes in Christ and Him Crucified has the witness in himself.  While it is a state that has to be defended spiritually with hand to hand combat, it is a secure state, a state of joy, purpose and love in its true definition. 

If this is the way that you choose to show how you and God love me - please, I beg you - hate me and wish for my destruction. Make my death and eternal torment your ultimate goal.

You'd be more honest with me than you've ever been.

 

JcGadfly,

I think you've expressed yourself pretty well.  Have a nice.....day. 

 

 

 

Does that mean you are now going to root for my ultimate destruction?

Or do I just get ignored and arrogantly preached at (instead of talked to) as per usual?

Perhaps it means you will drop the pretense and deal honestly with those who respond to you?

Stay tuned...

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
ROAD TRIP

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

 

 

NoDeity,

What if you were hungry so I played you a tune or showed you a picture of food or told the reasoning behind food and energy.

 

You mean, like you've been doing since you've been here? You know this great restaurant with fantastic food and you show us the menu. Then you say that all you have to do is sign a lifetime agreement to serve as the owner's kitchen help...oh and we also have to look and sound just like yuo since you are the owner's favorite employee...and we can't eat any of the food in the restaurant until after we're dead.

Quote:
Such is your approach to the hunger of the inner man, the soul.  You are focused on the shadow and ignoring both the substance and the light source.  The only thing that will satisfy the soul is faith in Jesus Christ.  The only thing that will give the guilty conscience peace through faith seeing Him bleed and die for your sin.

You remind of an anorexic who looks like a walking corpse but insists she's pretty and healthy.  You believe you're eating at a sumptuous table but don't see the maggots and rotten places in your food. As for watching Jesus bleed and die for me - that's just freaking morbid. While you are crucifying Christ afresh by taking advantage of his gift of forgiveness (sinning, asking for forgiveness and sinning again), do you wank as well?

Quote:
This can only happen if you are "born of the Spirit".  The Spirit would blow on your pride and make the things you trust in now "wither" and reset your focus on Jesus and Him crucified.  Your faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified would be counted as righteousness - not your righteousness, but instead God's Righteousness.  This is the only way salvation or peace of conscience have ever happened.  The "born from above" part comes from above, from God.  You have to realize that you can't navigate your ship through reason or hoist your own sail or propel your ship yourself.

You mean the way the spirit has blown on your pride and made it grow? The way that God has reset your focus on yourself and how much better you are than the rest of us, Pharisee?

 

Quote:
The reasoning of this isn't supported by the natural thinking of man - or polls.  It is supported by the Life that the Spirit awakens in a man, the life that is life indeed.  The man that has life in the Spirit and believes in Christ and Him Crucified has the witness in himself.  While it is a state that has to be defended spiritually with hand to hand combat, it is a secure state, a state of joy, purpose and love in its true definition. 

If this is the way that you choose to show how you and God love me - please, I beg you - hate me and wish for my destruction. Make my death and eternal torment your ultimate goal.

You'd be more honest with me than you've ever been.

 

JcGadfly,

I think you've expressed yourself pretty well.  Have a nice.....day. 

 

 

 

Does that mean you are now going to root for my ultimate destruction?

Or do I just get ignored and arrogantly preached at (instead of talked to) as per usual?

Perhaps it means you will drop the pretense and deal honestly with those who respond to you?

Stay tuned...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boC7lOV-1PU

 

 

 

 

.....For your enjoyment JcGadfly:  


ex-minister
atheistHigh Level ModeratorSilver Member
ex-minister's picture
Posts: 1708
Joined: 2010-01-29
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:ex-minister

Fonzie wrote:

ex-minister wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

The only thing that will satisfy the soul is faith in Jesus Christ.  The only thing that will give the guilty conscience peace through faith seeing Him bleed and die for your sin. 

 

Sorry that is backwards. You get a guilty conscience from watching Him bleed and die because you think it has something to do with playing with yourself. I didn't make Adam eat an apple nor did I force Christ to commit suicide for me, so why would I feel guilty? If someone tried to commit suicide over me I would call the asylum to come pick them up. They need help.

What made you feel so guilty?

 

ex-whatever,

What made me guilty was not a feeling but a real sin-wounded conscience.  Thanks be to God the blood of Jesus has healed it.  I am totally at peace yet at work, in fellowship with God through His grace still remembering what it was like to be where you are, on level ground yet watching the road, secure yet on guard for the enemy, working but understanding all glory is Christ's, well fed with manna from heaven and water from the Rock.  

You're part of a group that said Jesus had a demon when He was on the earth.  They either became enlightened or they're lost forever.  Hopefully you will come to be more wise and enlightened.

 

 

Frenzie,

That is ex-minister to you ma'am. A real sin-wounded conscience. Good Lord, that sounds really bad. You must have been quite the wild one. I never went there in my youth or hell even now. "Don't worry about temptation because in time it will avoid you."

I was where you are and I am now on level ground, not with my head in the clouds wishing for things that are not there. I wonder if you are able to communicate in other than Bible-speak. I am sure that is safer for you because it masks real communication.

I am not part of any group. I used to be a part of a crazy group. No demons here. They were were exorcised by reality. Hopefully you will wake up from your dream, but I see your are comfortably numb. Whatever gets you through the night.

Hey, but righteous kudos on starting a thread that is like 800 replies long. I would be proud of that.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


ex-minister
atheistHigh Level ModeratorSilver Member
ex-minister's picture
Posts: 1708
Joined: 2010-01-29
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie

Fonzie wrote:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boC7lOV-1PU

 

.....For your enjoyment JcGadfly:  

 

I watched. Wonder what this shows. We have the temple of Solomon as evidence and I guess this too. It shows the Jews existed which no one doubts, but adds nothing to the proof of their God. But I am bewildered why they screwed up and went 40 precent off course. As the guy says their engineering was a guessing game. Sounds like a very human experience and this is not the first tunnel ever dug. 

So it is not the best design. How come God couldn't tell them they were off course? Hezekiah became a holy man and got 15 more years of life, right?  Wouldn't Isaiah get the word the guys were off track and spare them needless work? An odd God.

 

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
FAIRLY OPEN

ex-minister wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

ex-minister wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

The only thing that will satisfy the soul is faith in Jesus Christ.  The only thing that will give the guilty conscience peace through faith seeing Him bleed and die for your sin. 

 

Sorry that is backwards. You get a guilty conscience from watching Him bleed and die because you think it has something to do with playing with yourself. I didn't make Adam eat an apple nor did I force Christ to commit suicide for me, so why would I feel guilty? If someone tried to commit suicide over me I would call the asylum to come pick them up. They need help.

What made you feel so guilty?

 

ex-whatever,

What made me guilty was not a feeling but a real sin-wounded conscience.  Thanks be to God the blood of Jesus has healed it.  I am totally at peace yet at work, in fellowship with God through His grace still remembering what it was like to be where you are, on level ground yet watching the road, secure yet on guard for the enemy, working but understanding all glory is Christ's, well fed with manna from heaven and water from the Rock.  

You're part of a group that said Jesus had a demon when He was on the earth.  They either became enlightened or they're lost forever.  Hopefully you will come to be more wise and enlightened.

 

 

Frenzie,

That is ex-minister to you ma'am. A real sin-wounded conscience. Good Lord, that sounds really bad. You must have been quite the wild one. I never went there in my youth or hell even now. "Don't worry about temptation because in time it will avoid you."

I was where you are and I am now on level ground, not with my head in the clouds wishing for things that are not there. I wonder if you are able to communicate in other than Bible-speak. I am sure that is safer for you because it masks real communication.

I am not part of any group. I used to be a part of a crazy group. No demons here. They were were exorcised by reality. Hopefully you will wake up from your dream, but I see your are comfortably numb. Whatever gets you through the night.

Hey, but righteous kudos on starting a thread that is like 800 replies long. I would be proud of that.

 

Ex-Minister,

 

Sure, what did you want to talk about? 


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
ex-minister wrote:Fonzie

ex-minister wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boC7lOV-1PU

 

.....For your enjoyment JcGadfly:  

 

I watched. Wonder what this shows. We have the temple of Solomon as evidence and I guess this too. It shows the Jews existed which no one doubts, but adds nothing to the proof of their God. But I am bewildered why they screwed up and went 40 precent off course. As the guy says their engineering was a guessing game. Sounds like a very human experience and this is not the first tunnel ever dug. 

So it is not the best design. How come God couldn't tell them they were off course? Hezekiah became a holy man and got 15 more years of life, right?  Wouldn't Isaiah get the word the guys were off track and spare them needless work? An odd God.

 

 

 

ex-minister,

Such things don't produce faith - that's already been mentioned, true.  Jesus' miracles didn't seem to produce faith in the ones standing there.  The video was for JcGadfly's enjoyment.  I thought it was interesting.  Actually I thought it was efficient too - not having to go there. 

As far as your question as to why God didn't reveal the straight path to them I don't have the answer. 

True, not the first tunnel ever dug.  Jesus wasn't the first man ever crucified either. 

Hezekiah got 15 more years, yes and Manasseh was conceived during the extension - the worst king ever.  His grandson Josiah however was a good king. 

As to how faith comes to a man, I think that's a divine question.  I think it is ignited by God in whatever way He chooses to do it.  I've heard several stories about how different men came to themselves - all different, usually things that don't sound like much to me. 

So what crazy group were you in - if you don't mind the question?

 

 


Fonzie
TheistardTroll
Fonzie's picture
Posts: 858
Joined: 2008-08-31
User is offlineOffline
HE LAUGHS

ALL

All I've seen on this forum is an attacking vacuum of reason and purpose.  The skill is mocking and ridicule - but it serves no purpose as far as direction or answers.  There is a spoken joy of emptiness short lived as the crackle of thorns under the pot.  There is a supposed freedom of throwing off the chains of God, the restraints that fools fail to recognize as good. 

There is entertainment in heaven over this - it is written these things make God laugh.  So there's entertainment value at least if not salvation. 

Sure, God would like salvation.  How much?  His Son lifted up on His Holy Hill - that much.  But the swine trample pearls and turn on the messenger and in essence the Pearl Maker.  So what we see here is the trampling - which only requires the skill of swine to pearls, but where is the better offer of the swine?  Where is the direction other than the drink?  Where is the communication other than the grunt and squeal?  Where is the shown reformation other than to go back into the mud? 

 


"The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and His anointed, saying, 'Let us burst their bonds asunder, and cast their cords from us.'  He who sits in the heavens laughs; the LORD has them in derision.  Thsn He will speak to them in His wrath, and terrify them in His fury, saying,  'I have set My King on Zion, My Holy Hill'." (God)

 

 

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Fonzie wrote:ALLAll I've

Fonzie wrote:

ALL

All I've seen on this forum is an attacking vacuum of reason and purpose.  The skill is mocking and ridicule - but it serves no purpose as far as direction or answers.  There is a spoken joy of emptiness short lived as the crackle of thorns under the pot.  There is a supposed freedom of throwing off the chains of God, the restraints that fools fail to recognize as good. 

There is entertainment in heaven over this - it is written these things make God laugh.  So there's entertainment value at least if not salvation. 

Sure, God would like salvation.  How much?  His Son lifted up on His Holy Hill - that much.  But the swine trample pearls and turn on the messenger and in essence the Pearl Maker.  So what we see here is the trampling - which only requires the skill of swine to pearls, but where is the better offer of the swine?  Where is the direction other than the drink?  Where is the communication other than the grunt and squeal?  Where is the shown reformation other than to go back into the mud? 

 


"The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and His anointed, saying, 'Let us burst their bonds asunder, and cast their cords from us.'  He who sits in the heavens laughs; the LORD has them in derision.  Thsn He will speak to them in His wrath, and terrify them in His fury, saying,  'I have set My King on Zion, My Holy Hill'." (God)

 

 

 

You're playing the martyr card?

Did the mean kids here have a discussion with you other than "Of course you're right, Fonzie. We'll start worshipping your God exactly as you do. We'll even become little clones of you since you are the only true servant of God".

Poor child. The answers you were given didn't square with where you stopped thinking so you ignored them and stayed safe in your self created God. I don't understand why you bother quoting Scripture as that God has nothing to do with yours.

Again, I have nothing against God - either the one in the Bible or the one you created. I'm just not a huge fan of arrogance and you are chock full of that. If you'd actually read the Bible you'd know that God isn't a fan of it either. Fortunately for you, your God is OK with it.

Why do you say we complain about restraints when you are the one that has none? All you have to do is ask forgiveness and promise never to do it again (until it become convenient) and you can do whatever you want. We poor unenlightened fools live with the restraints of morality and society that you can ignore.

Life doesn't offer any purpose except the one that you make as you go. It's a shame you wasted your purpose on arrogance and self delusion. I hope you can snap out of it. Becoming a Christian would be a good start.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin