It works for me!

Fonzie
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It works for me!

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

 


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Fonzie wrote:NoDeity

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

I'd appreciate it if you would offer a clearer, more precise answer.  I find conversation more satisfying when the responses are less ambiguous.

Let me save you some time. He doesn't do "less ambiguous". Conversation ? Not gonna happen.

You may be right but I'll be interested to see for myself how he responds (if he responds).

 

NoDeity,

I'm not wanting to be ambiguous.  My thinking is framed in the Bible.  I mean I have studed it a lot and thought about it a lot (digested) and tried to apply it.  It is a part of me, so in answering this I would compare the idea of a man's way of life to the parable of Jesus about a man in search of the best pearl.  In that parable when he finds it he gladly goes and sells everything he has to buy that pearl.  What I have offered - walking by faith in Jesus - is that best pearl to me.  I was asking what the best pearl is to you - what you see as worth putting your whole life, energy, passion..... into.  Obviously I have made my choice and have tried to explain what walking by faith in Jesus is in different ways - that's The Pearl to me.  If you have such a pearl to you - I would like to hear it. 

In a nut shell, my "pearl" -- that which I value most highly -- is life, most especially my own life.  The best tool human beings have for maintaining and enhancing their lives is reason.  So, I value reason.  Faith is the wilful abandoning of reason.  So, I reject faith. 

Regarding the Bible, I am somewhat familiar with it.  I practically grew up in church.  When I was small, the Bible was read to me daily.  As soon as I was old enough to read, I read the Bible daily for myself.  In my teens, I attended at least one mid-week Bible study group most weeks as well as church on Sundays.  I attended a post-secondary Bible school for several years, majoring in biblical studies, with an eye toward the ministry.  I tell you this just so that you understand that I am not ignorant about that which I have rejected.

 

Is there any more you would mind explaining or expanding on this  this?  I'm really interested. 

 

Can you be more specific?  Are you referring to what I wrote about value and reason or about my familiarity with the Bible?

 

  

Can you talk more about your experience (or lack of) with the God of the Bible you were reading.  This is like a time line but you leave out your thinking in this experience.

It's difficult for me to respond to a request to describe my experience with that which I am convinced does not exist but I'll try to describe for you what it was like for me at various stages in my journey.

The first stage for me, as it was for many, was simple belief as a consequence of being raised by devout Christian parents.  My family has an Anabaptist background and the significance of that to my story is that Anabaptists do not assume that the children of Christian parents are themselves Christians.  Each individual is expected to choose whether or not to become a Christian when they are old enough to do so -- usually no earlier than the mid-teens.

However, when I was seven, I had the misfortune of hearing a hellfire preacher ranting about the End Times and the terrible fate waiting for those who were on the wrong side.  It seems ludicrous to me now but, that night, I begged my parents to lead me in "the sinner's prayer" so that I could become a Christian.  They were very reluctant and tried to talk me out of it -- from what life of sin does a seven-year-old need to be saved?  I refused to give up, though, so my mom eventually did as I asked.  I remember the experience as a euphoric one, which I suppose is understandable, considering what it was I'd been afraid of.

My ideas about God were quite unsophisticated at that point, of course.  Every word in the Bible was true and I was somehow able to simultaneously believe that God was absolutely loving and that he was angry and dangerous.  Stories like the noahic flood and Jonah and the whale were obviously extraordinary but I considered it no problem for a God who can do anything to do miracles that defied normal experience.  I believed that miracles still occurred, even though I'd never seen one.

As I grew older, I periodically reconfirmed the commitment I'd made at seven.  I guess it's necessary that, as a child's capacity for understanding and self-responsibility grows, commitments like that need to be revisited from time to time.

At fifteen, I was baptized.  It seemed like the thing for a serious young Christian to do, to publicly declare my allegiance to Jesus.  By then, I had begun to notice that some parts of the Bible seemed to contradict other parts but I had faith that God would not lie and that these apparent problems were a consequence of my inability to understand the deep mysteries of reality.  After all, I was a puny human and God was God.  God wasn't somewhere in the universe; the universe was somewhere in God.  Because God was all-knowing, that which I didn't understand surely must make sense from God's perspective.  Because God was Love, apparent injustices would certainly somehow be rectified in a system of balances too vast for mere humans to comprehend.  I didn't need to know all about it, I just needed to trust.  That was my faith.

I also had faith that if one examined all the evidence properly, the claims of the Bible would be supported by reason and by evidence.  I considered reason and evidence to be important and surely God wouldn't give us the ability to think and then require us to abandon it.  I guess I was sort of a latent skeptic at the same time that I was a young man of faith.  (I think that learning to be comfortable with internal contradiction is necessary if one is to persist in religious belief.)

In my late teens, I became interested in creationism.  I acquired a "creation science" text book and studied it, as well as some other material (don't ask me to provide titles or names of authors -- that was in the 1970s and such details have long since left me), and sometimes challenged my teachers in high school.  Eventually, though, the intellectual dishonest of these "creation scientists" became apparent to me and I reluctantly acknowledged that they were not to be believed.  After a time, I had to acknowledge that the first few chapters of Genesis could not possibly be literally true.  That didn't shake my faith in God, though.  It was just another of those problems that mere humans could not fully comprehend.  I decided that God's purpose with Genesis was probably not to give us a science book but to teach us about His nature and human nature.  (At that time, it didn't occur to me to wonder why God would choose to present His Word in such a troubling and confusing manner.)

As I grew older and continued to be interested in science and philosophy, I gradually had to drop various beliefs that I'd held since childhood (I'm not going to bore you or myself with a full chronology of that) but I still held to belief in a just and merciful God and an afterlife to which the faithful might aspire.  I became more and more liberal in doctrine.  I read some skeptical literature and also quite a bit of Christian apologetics.

Eventually, I was no longer sure whether or not I believed in God.  I decided that I needed to know whether it was that I truly believed or that I had stopped believing but was unable to admit it even to myself.  I spent a few years in introspection, struggling with that.  At times, the struggle was agonizing; there were tears.  I had a very strong emotional attachment to my beliefs but, intellectually, I was unable to justify them.  Interestingly, I was finding it much more difficult to abandon the Jesus figure I'd embraced than to let go of belief in God, although I understood that if there is no God, then the Jesus story is of little importance.

One day, I finally made that step.  I said to myself, "There is no God".  The struggle was over and the sense of relief and elation was strangely similar to that which I'd experienced when I got "saved" at seven years old.  One of the most stressful periods in my life was over and I was happier than I'd been in years.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


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 NoDeity,Thanks, really

 

NoDeity,

Thanks, really well explained.  I want to read it a couple more times and think about it. 

 


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Fonzie

Fonzie wrote:

 NoDeity,

Thanks, really well explained.  I want to read it a couple more times and think about it. 

 

Well Meph, that would be a first, considering how many times you have already heard stories like this.

However, if this is really progress on your part, I'm happy for you. Makes me feel like I didn't waste my time here after all.


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DESTROYED SIMILAR FAITH STORY

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

NoDeity wrote:

I'd appreciate it if you would offer a clearer, more precise answer.  I find conversation more satisfying when the responses are less ambiguous.

Let me save you some time. He doesn't do "less ambiguous". Conversation ? Not gonna happen.

You may be right but I'll be interested to see for myself how he responds (if he responds).

 

NoDeity,

I'm not wanting to be ambiguous.  My thinking is framed in the Bible.  I mean I have studed it a lot and thought about it a lot (digested) and tried to apply it.  It is a part of me, so in answering this I would compare the idea of a man's way of life to the parable of Jesus about a man in search of the best pearl.  In that parable when he finds it he gladly goes and sells everything he has to buy that pearl.  What I have offered - walking by faith in Jesus - is that best pearl to me.  I was asking what the best pearl is to you - what you see as worth putting your whole life, energy, passion..... into.  Obviously I have made my choice and have tried to explain what walking by faith in Jesus is in different ways - that's The Pearl to me.  If you have such a pearl to you - I would like to hear it. 

In a nut shell, my "pearl" -- that which I value most highly -- is life, most especially my own life.  The best tool human beings have for maintaining and enhancing their lives is reason.  So, I value reason.  Faith is the wilful abandoning of reason.  So, I reject faith. 

Regarding the Bible, I am somewhat familiar with it.  I practically grew up in church.  When I was small, the Bible was read to me daily.  As soon as I was old enough to read, I read the Bible daily for myself.  In my teens, I attended at least one mid-week Bible study group most weeks as well as church on Sundays.  I attended a post-secondary Bible school for several years, majoring in biblical studies, with an eye toward the ministry.  I tell you this just so that you understand that I am not ignorant about that which I have rejected.

 

Is there any more you would mind explaining or expanding on this  this?  I'm really interested. 

 

Can you be more specific?  Are you referring to what I wrote about value and reason or about my familiarity with the Bible?

 

  

Can you talk more about your experience (or lack of) with the God of the Bible you were reading.  This is like a time line but you leave out your thinking in this experience.

It's difficult for me to respond to a request to describe my experience with that which I am convinced does not exist but I'll try to describe for you what it was like for me at various stages in my journey.

The first stage for me, as it was for many, was simple belief as a consequence of being raised by devout Christian parents.  My family has an Anabaptist background and the significance of that to my story is that Anabaptists do not assume that the children of Christian parents are themselves Christians.  Each individual is expected to choose whether or not to become a Christian when they are old enough to do so -- usually no earlier than the mid-teens.

However, when I was seven, I had the misfortune of hearing a hellfire preacher ranting about the End Times and the terrible fate waiting for those who were on the wrong side.  It seems ludicrous to me now but, that night, I begged my parents to lead me in "the sinner's prayer" so that I could become a Christian.  They were very reluctant and tried to talk me out of it -- from what life of sin does a seven-year-old need to be saved?  I refused to give up, though, so my mom eventually did as I asked.  I remember the experience as a euphoric one, which I suppose is understandable, considering what it was I'd been afraid of.

My ideas about God were quite unsophisticated at that point, of course.  Every word in the Bible was true and I was somehow able to simultaneously believe that God was absolutely loving and that he was angry and dangerous.  Stories like the noahic flood and Jonah and the whale were obviously extraordinary but I considered it no problem for a God who can do anything to do miracles that defied normal experience.  I believed that miracles still occurred, even though I'd never seen one.

As I grew older, I periodically reconfirmed the commitment I'd made at seven.  I guess it's necessary that, as a child's capacity for understanding and self-responsibility grows, commitments like that need to be revisited from time to time.

At fifteen, I was baptized.  It seemed like the thing for a serious young Christian to do, to publicly declare my allegiance to Jesus.  By then, I had begun to notice that some parts of the Bible seemed to contradict other parts but I had faith that God would not lie and that these apparent problems were a consequence of my inability to understand the deep mysteries of reality.  After all, I was a puny human and God was God.  God wasn't somewhere in the universe; the universe was somewhere in God.  Because God was all-knowing, that which I didn't understand surely must make sense from God's perspective.  Because God was Love, apparent injustices would certainly somehow be rectified in a system of balances too vast for mere humans to comprehend.  I didn't need to know all about it, I just needed to trust.  That was my faith.

I also had faith that if one examined all the evidence properly, the claims of the Bible would be supported by reason and by evidence.  I considered reason and evidence to be important and surely God wouldn't give us the ability to think and then require us to abandon it.  I guess I was sort of a latent skeptic at the same time that I was a young man of faith.  (I think that learning to be comfortable with internal contradiction is necessary if one is to persist in religious belief.)

In my late teens, I became interested in creationism.  I acquired a "creation science" text book and studied it, as well as some other material (don't ask me to provide titles or names of authors -- that was in the 1970s and such details have long since left me), and sometimes challenged my teachers in high school.  Eventually, though, the intellectual dishonest of these "creation scientists" became apparent to me and I reluctantly acknowledged that they were not to be believed.  After a time, I had to acknowledge that the first few chapters of Genesis could not possibly be literally true.  That didn't shake my faith in God, though.  It was just another of those problems that mere humans could not fully comprehend.  I decided that God's purpose with Genesis was probably not to give us a science book but to teach us about His nature and human nature.  (At that time, it didn't occur to me to wonder why God would choose to present His Word in such a troubling and confusing manner.)

As I grew older and continued to be interested in science and philosophy, I gradually had to drop various beliefs that I'd held since childhood (I'm not going to bore you or myself with a full chronology of that) but I still held to belief in a just and merciful God and an afterlife to which the faithful might aspire.  I became more and more liberal in doctrine.  I read some skeptical literature and also quite a bit of Christian apologetics.

Eventually, I was no longer sure whether or not I believed in God.  I decided that I needed to know whether it was that I truly believed or that I had stopped believing but was unable to admit it even to myself.  I spent a few years in introspection, struggling with that.  At times, the struggle was agonizing; there were tears.  I had a very strong emotional attachment to my beliefs but, intellectually, I was unable to justify them.  Interestingly, I was finding it much more difficult to abandon the Jesus figure I'd embraced than to let go of belief in God, although I understood that if there is no God, then the Jesus story is of little importance.

One day, I finally made that step.  I said to myself, "There is no God".  The struggle was over and the sense of relief and elation was strangely similar to that which I'd experienced when I got "saved" at seven years old.  One of the most stressful periods in my life was over and I was happier than I'd been in years.

 

NoDeity,

I know a family that went to a scare session like that and their kids were all baptized.  The preacher who did that might have been fueled by guilt.  People can go wrong in any position - a banker embezzles, a priest molests, a doctor becomes an addict, a fireman becomes an arsonist. 

I have a very similar faith-destroyed type thing in my life.  Tell me what you think of it if you want.  I have pretty much lost all faith in doctors - to the point that I sew my own finger/hand up, and will die before getting major surgery - (I would go to one for a broken leg).  And I honestly don't think they know what they claim to know.  I think they for the most part make money on the body's own ability to heal itself.  I think the fancy testing machines are money makers and snake oil on steriods.  I think the cancer hype, trying to get people to hype each other and brag about "cancer survivors" is because they don't really know how to cure it, so they try to tap in to psych.   

I would attribute this to the way doctors have been introduced to me.  Right after I became a Christian I was struck with bipolar.  My parents took me to a famous doctor.  His counselor told me to get rid of my Bible - that was my problem he said.  Then he mis-diagnosed me and gave me shock treatments along with the wrong RX.  

I was then treated by an old Jewish doctor that seemed to want to make money off the insurance and would give a round of shock treatments but not rightly diagnose the problem or solve it.  I was delivered from him in sort of a miraculous way.  I had a vivid dream about him killing me and scared Hell out of him when I told him.  

So, I walked into the library and the featured book was "Moodswing" (I know it was written by a pdoc so there's some lack of logic in my lack of faith in doctors).  I was enabled to diagnose my own problem, then finally find a doctor that would give me lithium - and since that there has been no problem (over 35 years) and I am my own doctor, I take a ultra small amount of it (a lot less than the healthcare world thinks is necessary), which turns out to be what Kay Redfield Jameson does (see "An Unquiet Mind&quotEye-wink

So here I am.  I am conscious of the fact that there has to be such a thing as a good honest doctor whose purpose in life isn't just to make money.  but I am ready to die rather than be re-wired by a committee.  I see that I am in the same spot as you in a way, and I don't see a way to re-route this trip.  I'm here, and went through hell getting here concerning false doctors, and another similar thing I see with my lack of faith and yours is the stories I hear re-enforce my position.

So, I think I grasp to some degree what you described.  I don't have a re-route ready for you. 

"Religion" was introduced out of order to me too.  I went off to church camp and the spotlight was on being baptized, so I became a baptismal celebrity.  It was much later I was reading the Bible and scared frantic by reading about my sin and the consequence.  I was baptized that day.  Then the bipolar hit.  I felt like I was trying to glue myself together and running short on glue.  It was slow coming together for me.  I don't mean to parade that I have found exactly what I was searching for, but it's just as true as the hell part.  It's been true for several years now, so I'm not just talking about short term. 

It seems like I could look back and see that several good things weren't ideally introduced to me in my life.  My parents didn't discuss sex for instance - it was that generation's approach.  I don't think it was well introduced by fellow second graders.  

I just want to say that I appreciate you explaining this.  I don't think you were asking me for an answer, which I don't have anyway, though I wish I did.   I enjoy trying to understand it and I think I do to some degree.   

 

 

 

 

 

 


Anonymouse
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Just to get this out of the

Just to get this out of the way, but you only mentioned your bipolar and the lithium in your first thread. Until now. In other words, it's time to quit pretending you're not the person who made the "what faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads. Just a little honesty, that's all I'm asking.

Fonzie wrote:

So here I am.  I am conscious of the fact that there has to be such a thing as a good honest doctor whose purpose in life isn't just to make money.  but I am ready to die rather than be re-wired by a committee.  I see that I am in the same spot as you in a way, and I don't see a way to re-route this trip.  I'm here, and went through hell getting here concerning false doctors, and another similar thing I see with my lack of faith and yours is the stories I hear re-enforce my position.

So, I think I grasp to some degree what you described.  I don't have a re-route ready for you.

Well, this is refreshing. Not that you haven't made posts like this before, and I'm not sure what you mean by "re-routing", but it's nice that you no longer feel the need to threaten people.

Fonzie wrote:
"Religion" was introduced out of order to me too.  I went off to church camp and the spotlight was on being baptized, so I became a baptismal celebrity.  It was much later I was reading the Bible and scared frantic by reading about my sin and the consequence.  I was baptized that day.  Then the bipolar hit.  I felt like I was trying to glue myself together and running short on glue.  It was slow coming together for me.  I don't mean to parade that I have found exactly what I was searching for, but it's just as true as the hell part.  It's been true for several years now, so I'm not just talking about short term. 

It seems like I could look back and see that several good things weren't ideally introduced to me in my life.  My parents didn't discuss sex for instance - it was that generation's approach.  I don't think it was well introduced by fellow second graders. 

That last bit is new. Interesting too, allthough I'm still not sure how it's relevant. Maybe you just wanted to show you're capable of having a conversation ? In that case, I hope it will soon become clear what the conversation is going to be about.

Fonzie wrote:
I just want to say that I appreciate you explaining this.  I don't think you were asking me for an answer, which I don't have anyway, though I wish I did.   I enjoy trying to understand it and I think I do to some degree.

Well, that's good. I'm glad to hear that JCG and other's uncountable attempts to get through to you have born fruit, and you no longer feel the need to tell people who no longer believe that they "maybe didn't persevere enough, I don't know..".

You've learned something, Meph. Thank you for listening after all.  

 

 


NoDeity
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Fonzie wrote:NoDeity,I know

Fonzie wrote:

NoDeity,

I know a family that went to a scare session like that and their kids were all baptized.  The preacher who did that might have been fueled by guilt.  People can go wrong in any position - a banker embezzles, a priest molests, a doctor becomes an addict, a fireman becomes an arsonist.  

I've also known some good pastors, though.  The pastor of the church I attended in my late teens was pretty good.  I like to argue and he liked to argue so sometimes I would go visit him in his office and we'd have a good, long argument.  He and I never did completely see eye-to-eye on certain topics but I appreciated the fact that it was okay to discuss such things.  

It's not the bad evangelist that destroyed my faith.  Rather, it was the cognitive dissonance between that which I was trying to believe and that which reason and evidence told me was most likely true.

 

Fonzie wrote:
I have a very similar faith-destroyed type thing in my life.  Tell me what you think of it if you want.  I have pretty much lost all faith in doctors - to the point that I sew my own finger/hand up, and will die before getting major surgery - (I would go to one for a broken leg).  And I honestly don't think they know what they claim to know.  I think they for the most part make money on the body's own ability to heal itself.  I think the fancy testing machines are money makers and snake oil on steriods.  I think the cancer hype, trying to get people to hype each other and brag about "cancer survivors" is because they don't really know how to cure it, so they try to tap in to psych.  

Well, my life has been saved by surgery more than once, so I have a different perspective.  About a year ago, I had minor surgery to remove precancerous growths that were found during a rather undignified examination that men of a certain age are advised to get (I'm 50).  Cancer is real and I've seen friends die very painfully with it.

By the way, there is some pretty interesting evidence that vitamin D helps to prevent cancer, so I'm now taking 2000 IUs a day.  That's supposed to be a safe amount and it's not expensive.  2000 IUs a day costs me about fifty or sixty bucks a year -- dirt cheap, really.

I have a regular doctor whom I trust but I don't accept everything he says without questioning.  I have a certain level of trust in medical science but I wouldn't call it faith.  Because I somewhat understand how scientific methods work and because I know of evidence that shows that science does work, I have some confidence in science.  That confidence is based on reason and evidence and that is what distinguishes it from faith.

 

Fonzie wrote:
 I would attribute this to the way doctors have been introduced to me.  Right after I became a Christian I was struck with bipolar.  My parents took me to a famous doctor.  His counselor told me to get rid of my Bible - that was my problem he said.  Then he mis-diagnosed me and gave me shock treatments along with the wrong RX.  

I was then treated by an old Jewish doctor that seemed to want to make money off the insurance and would give a round of shock treatments but not rightly diagnose the problem or solve it.  I was delivered from him in sort of a miraculous way.  I had a vivid dream about him killing me and scared Hell out of him when I told him.  

That sounds horrible.  I don't blame you for being distrustful of the psych doctors.  

I used to have a roommate who was diagnosed not only with bipolar but also paranoid schizophrenia.  That was quite a few years ago.  He's still bipolar but is stabilized on meds.  He is no longer diagnosed schizophrenic and doesn't seem to hear the voices anymore.  I still consider him to be a good friend so, although I haven't had those experiences myself, I have observed them up close.

My friend had the misfortune to be hit by the symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia while attending a pentecostal-type Bible college.  Instead of getting him medical attention, they tried to cast the demons out (which didn't work, of course).

 

Fonzie wrote:
 So, I walked into the library and the featured book was "Moodswing" (I know it was written by a pdoc so there's some lack of logic in my lack of faith in doctors).  I was enabled to diagnose my own problem, then finally find a doctor that would give me lithium - and since that there has been no problem (over 35 years) and I am my own doctor, I take a ultra small amount of it (a lot less than the healthcare world thinks is necessary), which turns out to be what Kay Redfield Jameson does (see "An Unquiet Mind&quotEye-wink.

If you can get the relief you need with minimal medication, that's excellent.

 

Fonzie wrote:
 I just want to say that I appreciate you explaining this.  I don't think you were asking me for an answer, which I don't have anyway, though I wish I did.   I enjoy trying to understand it and I think I do to some degree.  

I appreciate your response.  Thank you.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


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Anonymouse wrote:Just to get

Anonymouse wrote:

Just to get this out of the way, but you only mentioned your bipolar and the lithium in your first thread. Until now. In other words, it's time to quit pretending you're not the person who made the "what faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads. Just a little honesty, that's all I'm asking.

Fonzie wrote:

So here I am.  I am conscious of the fact that there has to be such a thing as a good honest doctor whose purpose in life isn't just to make money.  but I am ready to die rather than be re-wired by a committee.  I see that I am in the same spot as you in a way, and I don't see a way to re-route this trip.  I'm here, and went through hell getting here concerning false doctors, and another similar thing I see with my lack of faith and yours is the stories I hear re-enforce my position.

So, I think I grasp to some degree what you described.  I don't have a re-route ready for you.

Well, this is refreshing. Not that you haven't made posts like this before, and I'm not sure what you mean by "re-routing", but it's nice that you no longer feel the need to threaten people.

Fonzie wrote:
"Religion" was introduced out of order to me too.  I went off to church camp and the spotlight was on being baptized, so I became a baptismal celebrity.  It was much later I was reading the Bible and scared frantic by reading about my sin and the consequence.  I was baptized that day.  Then the bipolar hit.  I felt like I was trying to glue myself together and running short on glue.  It was slow coming together for me.  I don't mean to parade that I have found exactly what I was searching for, but it's just as true as the hell part.  It's been true for several years now, so I'm not just talking about short term. 

It seems like I could look back and see that several good things weren't ideally introduced to me in my life.  My parents didn't discuss sex for instance - it was that generation's approach.  I don't think it was well introduced by fellow second graders. 

That last bit is new. Interesting too, allthough I'm still not sure how it's relevant. Maybe you just wanted to show you're capable of having a conversation ? In that case, I hope it will soon become clear what the conversation is going to be about.

Fonzie wrote:
I just want to say that I appreciate you explaining this.  I don't think you were asking me for an answer, which I don't have anyway, though I wish I did.   I enjoy trying to understand it and I think I do to some degree.

Well, that's good. I'm glad to hear that JCG and other's uncountable attempts to get through to you have born fruit, and you no longer feel the need to tell people who no longer believe that they "maybe didn't persevere enough, I don't know..".

You've learned something, Meph. Thank you for listening after all.  

 

 

 

Anonymouse,

 

I can't really say you have built up any trust with me.  I have to wonder why you are now flattering me.  Do you have designs of directing me down your corridor in some way?  Up to this point all you have done is throw firebrands - I haven't seen you doing any of this listening you're blowing about.  I haven't yet achieved any "discussion" with you.  You've been a Shimei to me. 

 


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*sigh*Looks like I was too

*sigh*

Looks like I was too optimistic once again.

Fonzie wrote:
Anonymouse,

Yes Meph, what is it ? 

Fonzie wrote:
I can't really say you have built up any trust with me.

Trust ? I'm not your therapist. I'm just someone who's been trying to get some questions answered.

Fonzie wrote:
I have to wonder why you are now flattering me.

Calling it flattery is just flattering yourself. I just noticed that in your last few posts, you're no longer threatening or preaching at people, so I thought that deserved a little encouragement. I hope you'll keep it up.

Fonzie wrote:
  Do you have designs of directing me down your corridor in some way? 

Ew.

I think I asked you before to kindly leave me out of your imagination.

Fonzie wrote:
Up to this point all you have done is throw firebrands

Actually, I've asked you questions. Really simple ones too. You really need to quit blaming me for not liking your own answers or lack thereof.

Fonzie wrote:
- I haven't seen you doing any of this listening you're blowing about.
 

If I hadn't listened to you, I wouldn't have recognised you, Meph.

Fonzie wrote:
I haven't yet achieved any "discussion" with you.
 

If you read back a few pages, you'll notice that's not for lack of trying on my part.

Fonzie wrote:
You've been a Shimei to me. 

You really should stop comparing yourself to biblical characters.

 

Again, a simple question (dodged more times than I can count) : Have you been on this forum before, and did you make the threads "PALACE LIFE", and "What faith you" ?


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HORSE FLY HELOCOPTERS

Anonymouse wrote:

*sigh*

Looks like I was too optimistic once again.

 

Fonzie wrote:
I'm sure you'll have a quick recovery.

Fonzie wrote:
Anonymouse,

Yes Meph, what is it ?

Fonzie wrote:
It's called the salutation.

Fonzie wrote:
I can't really say you have built up any trust with me.

Trust ? I'm not your therapist. I'm just someone who's been trying to get some questions answered.

Fonzie wrote:
Ok, good your not my therapist and I don't trust you so I await  your query with bated breath.

Fonzie wrote:
I have to wonder why you are now flattering me.

Calling it flattery is just flattering yourself.

Fonzie wrote:
Better flatter than lie to myself. 
I just noticed that in your last few posts, you're no longer threatening or preaching at people, so I thought that deserved a little encouragement.
Fonzie wrote:
I think I'm on a sugar high.
I hope you'll keep it up.
Fonzie wrote:
Well, other than that Mrs Lincoln how did you like the play?

Fonzie wrote:
  Do you have designs of directing me down your corridor in some way? 

Ew.

I think I asked you before to kindly leave me out of your imagination.

Fonzie wrote:
You see stars because somebody stole your tent, Kemo Sabe.

Fonzie wrote:
Up to this point all you have done is throw firebrands

Actually, I've asked you questions. Really simple ones too. You really need to quit blaming me for not liking your own answers or lack thereof.

Fonzie wrote:
So you're my professor?

Fonzie wrote:
- I haven't seen you doing any of this listening you're blowing about.
 

If I hadn't listened to you, I wouldn't have recognised you, Meph.

Fonzie wrote:
You hear what you want to hear.

Fonzie wrote:
I haven't yet achieved any "discussion" with you.
 

If you read back a few pages, you'll notice that's not for lack of trying on my part.

Fonzie wrote:
When you come to know yourself as others do - you'll appreciate yourself with right adieu.

Fonzie wrote:
You've been a Shimei to me. 

You really should stop comparing yourself to biblical characters.

Fonzie wrote:
If you had been listening you would understand this.  If you were interested in discussing you would move on to said discussion.

 

Again, a simple question (dodged more times than I can count) : Have you been on this forum before, and did you make the threads "PALACE LIFE", and "What faith you" ?

  McFly, my name is not meth.


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You had a bit of a problem

You had a bit of a problem with the quote function there, but I managed to salvage this :

Fonzie wrote:

 McFly, my name is not meth.

See, I didn't ask what your name was. I asked if you've been here before as the author of the "what faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads.

Could you answer the question please ?

You see, the author of those threads was a Christian grandad with the same number as grandkids as you, the exact same job as you, who also has bipolar and who also takes lithium for it, and who registered here three months after his thread got locked, who talks like you, etc...

The reason I ask, is because we're recycling the exact same thread here, which is a waste of time. Also, since you insist on lying about it, I'm beginning to wonder why dishonesty is such an important part of your faith for you.

You might as well answer, because thanks to your reply to NoDeity, there's nothing else to discuss anymore. You didn't threaten him or accuse him of "not persevering enough", which is an improvement, no matter how much you dislike me mentioning that. Since his background isn't significantly different from many other people in your threads, your opinion of their lack of faith has changed for the better too. Since you now "think" you "understand" atheism and have nothing negative to say about it anymore, I guess it's time for you to start a new thread, that is, if you still have questions or things you want to discuss.

Or you could just post that here if you like.

One more thing : The doctor who gives you the lithium, he makes sure you have your blood analysed regularly, right ? If I remember correctly, that stuff is pretty toxic.

 

 

 


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Anonymouse wrote:You had a

You had a bit of a problem with the quote function there, but I managed to salvage this :

Fonzie wrote:

 McFly, my name is not meth.

See, I didn't ask what your name was. I asked if you've been here before as the author of the "what faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads.

Could you answer the question please ?

You see, the author of those threads was a Christian grandad with the same number of grandkids as you, the exact same job as you, who also has bipolar and who also takes lithium for it,  who talks like you, and you registered here three months after his thread got locked, etc...

The reason I ask, is because we're recycling the exact same thread here, which is a waste of time. Also, since you insist on lying about it, I'm beginning to wonder why dishonesty is such an important part of your faith for you.

You might as well answer, because thanks to your reply to NoDeity, there's nothing else to discuss anymore. You didn't threaten him or accuse him of "not persevering enough", which is an improvement, no matter how much you dislike me mentioning that. Since his background isn't significantly different from many other people in your threads, your opinion of their lack of faith has changed for the better too. Since you now "think" you "understand" atheism and have nothing negative to say about it anymore, I guess it's time for you to start a new thread, that is, if you still have questions or things you want to discuss.

Or you could just post that here if you like.

One more thing : The doctor who gives you the lithium, he makes sure you have your blood analysed regularly, right ? If I remember correctly, that stuff is pretty toxic.

 

 

 


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Oops, double post, sorry.Oh

Oops, double post, sorry.

Oh well, mabye I'll get an answer this time..


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1. He hasn't called you

1. He hasn't called you "meth" but Meph - just a shorter form of Mephibosheth.

2. When has anonymouse attempted to cause the overthrow of your rule? Don't you read that Bible you love so much?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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QUESTION

 

Anonymouse,

 

Explain the finer points of that quote function will you? 

 

Tx


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Fonzie

Fonzie wrote:

 

Anonymouse,

 

Explain the finer points of that quote function will you? 

 

Tx

 

I'd be happy to.

 

But answer the question first, please.


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NOT DISCUSSION

Anonymouse,

It's evident to any honest reading of these posts that you have never discussed anything.  I challenge you to produce a paragraph of your post that shows otherwise. 

Instead you are a barrier to all discussion, rude, annoying, taking a dog by the ears as a way of getting acquainted, and it is also clear that you can (in your mind) dish it out but when I try to give you a taste of your annoyance you can't take it.  You threaten as you previously projected on me.  

Back to the discussion issue)  This thread is "It Works for Me".  I have ask how atheism works for you.  It is a growing suspicion that your atheism doesn't work for you in a satisfactory way.  You only stiff-arm when it comes to discussion.  You have nothing to offer except your continual ridicule of what you don't understand.  And you seem to "live" on this forum - taking it personally that nothing indeed gets discussed lest it be a challenge to your depravity and emptiness. 

I'll use another quote function:  Paul, who was dealing with a guy like you said, (and I quote) "You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the LORD?  And now, behold, the hand of the LORD is upon you, and you shall be blind and unable to see the sun for a time."

Actually, Anonymouse, Paul loved this guy by sharing the truth with him.  You could call it discussion - a term you should define by application. 

BTW I don't see "high level moderator" beside your name.  Are you actually JCGadfly?

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:Anonymouse,It's

Fonzie wrote:

Anonymouse,

It's evident to any honest reading of these posts that you have never discussed anything.  I challenge you to produce a paragraph of your post that shows otherwise.

Ok. How about the last post of mine that you completely ignored ? You can work your way back from that to my first one.

Fonzie wrote:
Instead you are a barrier to all discussion, rude, annoying, taking a dog by the ears as a way of getting acquainted,

I see. So asking questions instead of making assumptions is being "a barrier to all discussion" ? But running away from said questions time and time again is just fine ? Also, please show me where I've been rude and explain why you find me annoying.

Fonzie wrote:
and it is also clear that you can (in your mind) dish it out but when I try to give you a taste of your annoyance you can't take it.

Where exactly did I demonstrate not being able to "take it" ?

Fonzie wrote:
You threaten as you previously projected on me.

"Believe in Jesus or die". Those are your words, Meph. How is that projection ? Are you claiming I threatened you in response to that ? Where ? Are you planning to back up any of those claims ?

Fonzie wrote:
Back to the discussion issue)  This thread is "It Works for Me".  I have ask how atheism works for you.

It works in exactly the same way as with every other atheist in this thread, and apparently, you no longer have a problem with that, so that part of the discussion is over.

Fonzie wrote:
  It is a growing suspicion that your atheism doesn't work for you in a satisfactory way.

Actually, this isn't even about atheism/theism anymore for me. I'm just fascinated by your strange reaction to such a simple question. I mean, why lie about something so obvious ? What do you gain by that ? I'm hoping to find out.

Fonzie wrote:
You only stiff-arm when it comes to discussion.

Right. Asking a question is "stiff-arming". Not answering it, on the other hand...

Fonzie wrote:
  You have nothing to offer except your continual ridicule of what you don't understand.

What I don't understand is how asking a question is the same as ridicule and "not having anything to offer". Care to explain ?

Fonzie wrote:
And you seem to "live" on this forum

Meh, I wish I had more time. 40 minutes a day is all I can manage most days, and most of that's on soccer sites.

Fonzie wrote:
- taking it personally that nothing indeed gets discussed lest it be a challenge to your depravity and emptiness.

Oh, don't worry, I don't take it personally. Not even the "depravity and emptiness" comment. In fact, since you never back up any of your assertions, I can't even take that seriously.

Fonzie wrote:
I'll use another quote function:  Paul, who was dealing with a guy like you said, (and I quote) "You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the LORD?  And now, behold, the hand of the LORD is upon you, and you shall be blind and unable to see the sun for a time."

What did he do then ? Catch Paul in a silly lie ? If not, what's the relevance ?

Fonzie wrote:
Actually, Anonymouse, Paul loved this guy by sharing the truth with him.

Sounds more like a string of insults and threats. Being religious shouldn't be an excuse for being rude.

Fonzie wrote:
You could call it discussion - a term you should define by application.

According to your reply to NoDeity, you no longer have a problem with ex-theists atheists, so what's left to discuss ? There's only my question, and believe you me, once you answer it, we'll have plenty to discuss.

Fonzie wrote:
BTW I don't see "high level moderator" beside your name.  Are you actually JCGadfly?

Does our personal information match ? No, it doesn't. Also, you might have noticed that we're both on and posting at the same time.

 

 

Now, could you please answer the question ?


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Fonzie wrote:Anonymouse,It's

Fonzie wrote:

Anonymouse,

It's evident to any honest reading of these posts that you have never discussed anything.  I challenge you to produce a paragraph of your post that shows otherwise. 

Instead you are a barrier to all discussion, rude, annoying, taking a dog by the ears as a way of getting acquainted, and it is also clear that you can (in your mind) dish it out but when I try to give you a taste of your annoyance you can't take it.  You threaten as you previously projected on me.  

Back to the discussion issue)  This thread is "It Works for Me".  I have ask how atheism works for you.  It is a growing suspicion that your atheism doesn't work for you in a satisfactory way.  You only stiff-arm when it comes to discussion.  You have nothing to offer except your continual ridicule of what you don't understand.  And you seem to "live" on this forum - taking it personally that nothing indeed gets discussed lest it be a challenge to your depravity and emptiness. 

I'll use another quote function:  Paul, who was dealing with a guy like you said, (and I quote) "You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the LORD?  And now, behold, the hand of the LORD is upon you, and you shall be blind and unable to see the sun for a time."

Actually, Anonymouse, Paul loved this guy by sharing the truth with him.  You could call it discussion - a term you should define by application. 

BTW I don't see "high level moderator" beside your name.  Are you actually JCGadfly?

 

 

No, he's not me. Sock puppetry is against the rules - the mods would have busted me for that some time ago (I'm too honest for my own good). Besides, I'm too old to change writing styles.

Atheism works for me because I have no fear of death. I can appreciate myself for who I am instead having to gauge myself against an unattainable standard of a God (that he doesn't feel is worth following himself but will happily dispatch me to hell for violating).

Now how about you? You have a uncannily similar story and writing style of a user who went by the name of mephibosheth.

As for the lithium - let me understand.

You:

1. saw the problem

2. read a book with a solution

3. found a doctor who'd prescribe for you

4. took the lithium

5. monitoring your condition with a doctor's help (I hope)

6. read the Bible and attributed it all to God.

God:

...what did God actually do, again?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Anonymouse,

It's evident to any honest reading of these posts that you have never discussed anything.  I challenge you to produce a paragraph of your post that shows otherwise. 

Instead you are a barrier to all discussion, rude, annoying, taking a dog by the ears as a way of getting acquainted, and it is also clear that you can (in your mind) dish it out but when I try to give you a taste of your annoyance you can't take it.  You threaten as you previously projected on me.  

Back to the discussion issue)  This thread is "It Works for Me".  I have ask how atheism works for you.  It is a growing suspicion that your atheism doesn't work for you in a satisfactory way.  You only stiff-arm when it comes to discussion.  You have nothing to offer except your continual ridicule of what you don't understand.  And you seem to "live" on this forum - taking it personally that nothing indeed gets discussed lest it be a challenge to your depravity and emptiness. 

I'll use another quote function:  Paul, who was dealing with a guy like you said, (and I quote) "You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the LORD?  And now, behold, the hand of the LORD is upon you, and you shall be blind and unable to see the sun for a time."

Actually, Anonymouse, Paul loved this guy by sharing the truth with him.  You could call it discussion - a term you should define by application. 

BTW I don't see "high level moderator" beside your name.  Are you actually JCGadfly?

 

 

No, he's not me. Sock puppetry is against the rules - the mods would have busted me for that some time ago (I'm too honest for my own good). Besides, I'm too old to change writing styles.

Atheism works for me because I have no fear of death. I can appreciate myself for who I am instead having to gauge myself against an unattainable standard of a God (that he doesn't feel is worth following himself but will happily dispatch me to hell for violating).

Now how about you? You have a uncannily similar story and writing style of a user who went by the name of mephibosheth.

As for the lithium - let me understand.

You:

1. saw the problem

2. read a book with a solution

3. found a doctor who'd prescribe for you

4. took the lithium

5. monitoring your condition with a doctor's help (I hope)

6. read the Bible and attributed it all to God.

God:

...what did God actually do, again?

 

The doctor had his part in the movie but God wrote and directed it.


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Fonzie wrote:The doctor had

Fonzie wrote:

The doctor had his part in the movie but God wrote and directed it.

So does this doctor make sure you get your blood analysed regularly ?


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jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

Anonymouse,

It's evident to any honest reading of these posts that you have never discussed anything.  I challenge you to produce a paragraph of your post that shows otherwise. 

Instead you are a barrier to all discussion, rude, annoying, taking a dog by the ears as a way of getting acquainted, and it is also clear that you can (in your mind) dish it out but when I try to give you a taste of your annoyance you can't take it.  You threaten as you previously projected on me.  

Back to the discussion issue)  This thread is "It Works for Me".  I have ask how atheism works for you.  It is a growing suspicion that your atheism doesn't work for you in a satisfactory way.  You only stiff-arm when it comes to discussion.  You have nothing to offer except your continual ridicule of what you don't understand.  And you seem to "live" on this forum - taking it personally that nothing indeed gets discussed lest it be a challenge to your depravity and emptiness. 

I'll use another quote function:  Paul, who was dealing with a guy like you said, (and I quote) "You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the LORD?  And now, behold, the hand of the LORD is upon you, and you shall be blind and unable to see the sun for a time."

Actually, Anonymouse, Paul loved this guy by sharing the truth with him.  You could call it discussion - a term you should define by application. 

BTW I don't see "high level moderator" beside your name.  Are you actually JCGadfly?

 

 

No, he's not me. Sock puppetry is against the rules - the mods would have busted me for that some time ago (I'm too honest for my own good). Besides, I'm too old to change writing styles.

Atheism works for me because I have no fear of death. I can appreciate myself for who I am instead having to gauge myself against an unattainable standard of a God (that he doesn't feel is worth following himself but will happily dispatch me to hell for violating).

Now how about you? You have a uncannily similar story and writing style of a user who went by the name of mephibosheth.

As for the lithium - let me understand.

You:

1. saw the problem

2. read a book with a solution

3. found a doctor who'd prescribe for you

4. took the lithium

5. monitoring your condition with a doctor's help (I hope)

6. read the Bible and attributed it all to God.

God:

...what did God actually do, again?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKa_BGFmD_c    (you're not afraid of death - this guy wasn't afraid of electricity)

 


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Fonzie

Fonzie wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKa_BGFmD_c    (you're not afraid of death - this guy wasn't afraid of electricity)

 

Yet another unanswered question, dressed up with a sadistic video. Nice Meph, nice. And yet another implied threat as well ? I guess your improved behaviour with NoDeity was just temporary.

 

Btw, "that guy" wasn't unafraid, he was just uneducated, as most of India's poor people are, through no choice of their own.

 

Okay, since you continue to demonstrate you haven't the slightest intention of answering even the simplest question, how about we close this one up too, like your last two threads ?

 


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Anonymouse wrote:Fonzie

Anonymouse wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKa_BGFmD_c    (you're not afraid of death - this guy wasn't afraid of electricity)

 

Yet another unanswered question, dressed up with a sadistic video. Nice Meph, nice. And yet another implied threat as well ? I guess your improved behaviour with NoDeity was just temporary.

 

Btw, "that guy" wasn't unafraid, he was just uneducated, as most of India's poor people are, through no choice of their own.

 

Okay, since you continue to demonstrate you haven't the slightest intention of answering even the simplest question, how about we close this one up too, like your last two threads ?

 

 

Anonymouse,

You have a vivid imagination but little understanding.  I wonder anonymouse if you would know an answer if it hit you with a ball bat.  As I was discussing with JcGadfly before you again rudely butted in... he said he wasn't afraid of death.  So I have an answer for that.  Being unafraid or ignorant (as you would know) doesn't exempt from consequences. 

Again, you are the one with no examples of discussion, interfering with discussion, mischaracterizing discussion.  Then you portray yourself as the guaranteer of discussion, the executor of discussion. 

Are you totally unaware of yourself as seen by others?  I have a discussion statement for you on that from Robert Burns "O wad som po'er gift tae gie us tae see oursels as athers see us"

 

Hopefully you will be able to discuss that without trouble anonymouse.

 

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:Anonymouse,You

Fonzie wrote:

Anonymouse,

You have a vivid imagination but little understanding.

Care to back up that assertion ? If not, then it's just another juvenile insult.

Fonzie wrote:
I wonder anonymouse if you would know an answer if it hit you with a ball bat.

Try to keep your agression in check. Fact is, I asked you a very simple question and you haven't answered it yet.

Here it is again : Have you been on this forum before and are you the person who made the "What faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads ?

Fonzie wrote:
As I was discussing with JcGadfly before you again rudely butted in...

Ignoring people who ask you simple questions is just as rude. I apologise to JC for once again hijacking his reply, but if I have to wait for you to respond, then I'm going to forget all about my question to you, which seems to be what you're hoping for.

Fonzie wrote:
he said he wasn't afraid of death.  So I have an answer for that.

It wasn't a question. How about you answer some questions instead ?

Fonzie wrote:
Being unafraid or ignorant (as you would know)

I wouldn't know. Please do explain.

Fonzie wrote:
doesn't exempt from consequences.

Indeed it doesn't. Now can you show where he claims it does ? Someone tells you they're not afraid of death, and you feel compelled to show them a sadistic vid of a guy being electrocuted to death ? Why ?

Fonzie wrote:
Again, you are the one with no examples of discussion, interfering with discussion, mischaracterizing discussion.
 

I have already adressed this. You just ignored it. But sure, okay, I'll repeat myself yet again. Start from my first post in this thread, read them this time, and pay attention to the point where you start ignoring my posts. And then explain how I'm supposed to have a discussion with you when you keep running away from my questions, and only reply to me with threats and unfounded accusations.

Fonzie wrote:
Then you portray yourself as the guaranteer of discussion, the executor of discussion.

I told you before that there's no need for all this flowery language. It's really simple : I asked you a question, you didn't answer. Period.

Fonzie wrote:
Are you totally unaware of yourself as seen by others?

Nope. And I'm aware of the way you see me. I'm also aware that you never back up any of the things you say, so you might as well quit all the irrelevant threats and hysterical accusations and answer the question.

Fonzie wrote:
I have a discussion statement for you on that from Robert Burns "O wad som po'er gift tae gie us tae see oursels as athers see us"

I guess you used up all the irrelevant bible quotes, eh ?

Fonzie wrote:
Hopefully you will be able to discuss that without trouble anonymouse.

You go through a lot of trouble, just to avoid answering such a simple question, Meph.

And I'll repeat the other one too, just in case :

That doctor who gives you the lithium, does he make sure you get your blood checked regularly ?

 

 

 

 

 


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Hi guys - was on a

Hi guys - was on a computer-free hiatus with family.

So God wrote and directed your movie, eh Fonzie/Meph? You do realize that that means he didn't do all that much for you, right? Unless you believe that you are merely a drone that he moves for his amusement, you are still the active force in your life. You interpret the script as it seems reasonable to you, even going off book as you've done here when topics get uncomfortable for you.

As for death holding no terrors for me, I stand by my statement. Death is a natural process. I don't fear natural processes. However, this doesn't mean I have a death wish. I'd like to live a long life. If it doesn't happen, I won't be blaming a god or worrying that I didn't kiss his butt the correct way.

It's people like you I worry about most. I don't fear you but I am concerned for your welfare. You simultaneously fear death and ardently desire it. You fear it because you think you might not have done enough to avoid eternal torment. You can't wait for it because you believe in the afterlife of bliss and want to leave the messes of this world (some of which you contributed to).

This is the attitude that makes suicide bombers.

Your vid was pulled for terms of use violations so I didn't see it.

Why do you fear and love death as you do?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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DON'T BE CONCERNED

jcgadfly wrote:

Hi guys - was on a computer-free hiatus with family.

So God wrote and directed your movie, eh Fonzie/Meph? You do realize that that means he didn't do all that much for you, right? Unless you believe that you are merely a drone that he moves for his amusement, you are still the active force in your life. You interpret the script as it seems reasonable to you, even going off book as you've done here when topics get uncomfortable for you.

As for death holding no terrors for me, I stand by my statement. Death is a natural process. I don't fear natural processes. However, this doesn't mean I have a death wish. I'd like to live a long life. If it doesn't happen, I won't be blaming a god or worrying that I didn't kiss his butt the correct way.

It's people like you I worry about most. I don't fear you but I am concerned for your welfare. You simultaneously fear death and ardently desire it. You fear it because you think you might not have done enough to avoid eternal torment. You can't wait for it because you believe in the afterlife of bliss and want to leave the messes of this world (some of which you contributed to).

This is the attitude that makes suicide bombers.

Your vid was pulled for terms of use violations so I didn't see it.

Why do you fear and love death as you do?

 

JcGacfly,

 

Thanks for your nice reasonably stated reply.  

You seem to make me out to be a star God cast and I'm making Him money or something.  No, it was as if God got me out of a dumpster and healed the sickness, lifted me to the level of friend, family, same last name, honored, feasted & partied with, et. al.  I do go off script, you had that right.  I want to be on script.  The script of this discussion is the fact that Christ in us does and has worked for multitudes.  And it's working for me, getting better every day. 

I would like to totally free you from any concerns of me.  Save your concerns for the likes of yourself and anonymouse.

Ok, death holds no terrors for you and yet you are not wanting to rush it.  I could use the same words you did yet have a different meaning I think because we aren't on the same road.  If our roads have even crossed it has been at cyber-speed. 

Another thing you are wrong about I assure you is the point you mentioned that I worry that I have done enough.  This is a misunderstanding on your part of what the righteousness of God is, which is a gift.  God's righteousness is like the wedding garment given the guests at the wedding feast - in the parable they were drummed in from the alleys and homeless shelters (like me) and brought into the wedding, given the garment of righteousness (Christ) and celebrate the wedding of Christ to the church (the bride).  My trust isn't in my amount of righteous works - though I am highly motivated. 

A really neat thing about this; I can do good works without the corrupted aim of self-interest (earning my salvation by my works).  You have to realize this is totally different than what you described. 

What makes suicide bombers is false prophets with false doctrine.  Examine the teachings of Christ and you find He was made perfect in making Himself weak - allowing Himself to be as if weak, allowing Himself to be mocked, spit on, crucified, still mocked by you and others.  It's not amazing when a powerful warrior conquers a weaker - but it's remarkable when the King of Kings' Power is made perfect in weakness.  Through His death He destroyed the power of the second death.  Some day you are going to want what Jesus has, hopefully sooner rather than later.  Some day you will bow before Jesus and acknowledge He is the King of Kings - hopefully sooner rather than later. 

I don't fear death.  I fear God - however God has shown me ultimate love, so it is a fear of respect. 

As far as your signature; the principle of faith conquers and busts through doubts and questionings.  Once you believe in Jesus in your heart and understand that everything He said, says and did/does is exactly right - there's no doubts about Him or God or the Holy Spirit.  They Know What They're doing, They are on top of Their Game.   Faith is the victory - Faith in Jesus.  

 

 

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:Ok, death holds

Fonzie wrote:
Ok, death holds no terrors for you and yet you are not wanting to rush it.  I could use the same words you did yet have a different meaning I think because we aren't on the same road.  If our roads have even crossed it has been at cyber-speed.

Regarding death, there is only a little I can add to this quotation from Mark Twain: "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."  IOW, non-existence is no problem at all for that which does not exist.

Because I enjoy my life and, of course, because I share with most of the other inhabitants of this planet the strong instinct of self-preservation, I'm inclined to avoid death, generally.  I wouldn't necessarily want to live forever but merely until I no longer desire life.  I would like to believe that it is possible for me to continue after this poor body ceases to function but there is no good reason to think that any such thing is at all likely and no plausible means by which it might happen and, so, I can not in good conscience hold any such belief.

Dying, of course, is quite another matter.  I cannot be dead, since I no longer exist after I have died.  However, it appears that dying can sometimes be a very physically painful experience and seems like something to avoid (as often as possible  ).

 

Fonzie wrote:
 A really neat thing about this; I can do good works without the corrupted aim of self-interest (earning my salvation by my works).  You have to realize this is totally different than what you described.  

Self-interest is not a corrupting influence.  Rather, it is highly virtuous.  Or, to be more precise, honest and rational self-interest is highly virtuous.  If I help someone who needs it or donate my money or time to a charitable organization, I do so for reasons of self-interest and I am honest enough to acknowledge that fact.  I might do it because it feels good to do good, which is obviously a self-interested motive.  I might do it because I am convinced that it is the right thing to do.  To fail to do what I think is right is to violate my own ethics which, if you think about it a bit, is contrary to my self-interest.

I differ from most religionists and also from some of my fellow atheists in that I deny that actual self-sacrifice is virtuous.  Rather, I think that self-sacrifice is evil.  I think that he who values his own life so poorly that he is eager to give it up is unlikely to value the lives of others much more highly than that.  So, I am less wary of the self-interested man than of the altruism enthusiast.

 

Fonzie wrote:
 What makes suicide bombers is false prophets with false doctrine.  

That's true.  The doctrine that self-sacrifice is (or should be) rewarded is quite horrible.

 

Fonzie wrote:
 Examine the teachings of Christ

You mean that disgusting promoter of self-sacrifice?  Excuse me while I puke.  

 

Fonzie wrote:
 As far as your signature; the principle of faith conquers and busts through doubts and questionings.  Once you believe in Jesus in your heart and understand that everything He said, says and did/does is exactly right - there's no doubts about Him or God or the Holy Spirit.  They Know What They're doing, They are on top of Their Game.   Faith is the victory - Faith in Jesus.  

Faith is really, really disgusting.  Faith is the direct opposite of that which is man's best tool for achieving a better life: reason.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


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Fonzie wrote:Thanks for your

Fonzie wrote:
Thanks for your nice reasonably stated reply. 

Considering he's been doing this for you since 2007, it's a little more than just "nice".

Fonzie wrote:
You seem to make me out to be a star God cast and I'm making Him money or something.

Nope, he's just going with the metaphor you started. I guess you don't like it anymore and will start a new metaphor soon.

Fonzie wrote:
No, it was as if God got me out of a dumpster and healed the sickness, lifted me to the level of friend, family, same last name, honored, feasted & partied with, et. al.

...and there it is. More prose preaching.

Fonzie wrote:
I do go off script, you had that right.  I want to be on script.
 

He means the many contradictions in your faith that he has pointed out during the years. You seem to be fine with those, which is what we don't understand.

Fonzie wrote:
The script of this discussion is the fact that Christ in us does and has worked for multitudes.

Discussions don't have scripts. Although you running away from my questions does seem to be a theme.

Fonzie wrote:
And it's working for me, getting better every day. 

Well, no, it doesn't. I already explained why not. I'll probably have to do it again one of these replies, cause you seem to have forgotten.

Fonzie wrote:
I would like to totally free you from any concerns of me. 

Really ? Then you'll answer this question (for a start) : The doctor who gives you the lithium, does he make sure you have your blood analysed at least once a week ?

Fonzie wrote:
Save your concerns for the likes of yourself and anonymouse.

Actually, I think we'll both be worrying about you for a while yet, because you're probably not going to answer.

Fonzie wrote:
Ok, death holds no terrors for you and yet you are not wanting to rush it.  I could use the same words you did yet have a different meaning I think because we aren't on the same road.  If our roads have even crossed it has been at cyber-speed. 

If your really using a different dictionary, then communication was impossible before you even came here, and you owe us all an apology for knowingly wasting our time.

 

Fonzie wrote:
Another thing you are wrong about I assure you is the point you mentioned that I worry that I have done enough.  This is a misunderstanding on your part of what the righteousness of God is, which is a gift.  God's righteousness is like the wedding garment given the guests at the wedding feast - in the parable they were drummed in from the alleys and homeless shelters (like me) and brought into the wedding, given the garment of righteousness (Christ) and celebrate the wedding of Christ to the church (the bride).  My trust isn't in my amount of righteous works - though I am highly motivated. 

A really neat thing about this; I can do good works without the corrupted aim of self-interest (earning my salvation by my works).  You have to realize this is totally different than what you described. 

You just claimed it's different, you didn't explain why.

Fonzie wrote:
What makes suicide bombers is false prophets with false doctrine.  Examine the teachings of Christ and you find He was made perfect in making Himself weak - allowing Himself to be as if weak, allowing Himself to be mocked, spit on, crucified,

What makes suicide bombers is people who will kill for their god. Like you. You answered "yes" to the question "would you kill an innocent child if god asked you to".

Fonzie wrote:
still mocked by you and others. 

Where did he mock jesus ? Where did I do that ? Why do you keep accusing us of things we didn't do ?

Fonzie wrote:
It's not amazing when a powerful warrior conquers a weaker - but it's remarkable when the King of Kings' Power is made perfect in weakness.  Through His death He destroyed the power of the second death.  Some day you are going to want what Jesus has, hopefully sooner rather than later.  Some day you will bow before Jesus and acknowledge He is the King of Kings - hopefully sooner rather than later. 

Or else ?

Fonzie wrote:
I don't fear death.  I fear God - however God has shown me ultimate love, so it is a fear of respect.

You can't respect someone without fearing them ? That's kind of sad.

Fonzie wrote:
As far as your signature; the principle of faith conquers and busts through doubts and questionings.  Once you believe in Jesus in your heart and understand that everything He said, says and did/does is exactly right - there's no doubts about Him or God or the Holy Spirit.  They Know What They're doing, They are on top of Their Game.   Faith is the victory - Faith in Jesus.  

Every cult uses exactly the same line, Meph. You need to read his signature again. Faith seems to bust through doubts and questions about human decency as well.

Question for you : Are you the same person who made the "What faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads ?

 

 


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Fonzie wrote: Examine the

Fonzie wrote:
 Examine the teachings of Christ

NoDeity wrote:
You mean that disgusting promoter of self-sacrifice?  Excuse me while I puke.  

Uh-oh. Now you've done it.

 


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Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Hi guys - was on a computer-free hiatus with family.

So God wrote and directed your movie, eh Fonzie/Meph? You do realize that that means he didn't do all that much for you, right? Unless you believe that you are merely a drone that he moves for his amusement, you are still the active force in your life. You interpret the script as it seems reasonable to you, even going off book as you've done here when topics get uncomfortable for you.

As for death holding no terrors for me, I stand by my statement. Death is a natural process. I don't fear natural processes. However, this doesn't mean I have a death wish. I'd like to live a long life. If it doesn't happen, I won't be blaming a god or worrying that I didn't kiss his butt the correct way.

It's people like you I worry about most. I don't fear you but I am concerned for your welfare. You simultaneously fear death and ardently desire it. You fear it because you think you might not have done enough to avoid eternal torment. You can't wait for it because you believe in the afterlife of bliss and want to leave the messes of this world (some of which you contributed to).

This is the attitude that makes suicide bombers.

Your vid was pulled for terms of use violations so I didn't see it.

Why do you fear and love death as you do?

 

JcGacfly,

 

Thanks for your nice reasonably stated reply.  

You seem to make me out to be a star God cast and I'm making Him money or something.  No, it was as if God got me out of a dumpster and healed the sickness, lifted me to the level of friend, family, same last name, honored, feasted & partied with, et. al.  I do go off script, you had that right.  I want to be on script.  The script of this discussion is the fact that Christ in us does and has worked for multitudes.  And it's working for me, getting better every day. 

I would like to totally free you from any concerns of me.  Save your concerns for the likes of yourself and anonymouse.

Ok, death holds no terrors for you and yet you are not wanting to rush it.  I could use the same words you did yet have a different meaning I think because we aren't on the same road.  If our roads have even crossed it has been at cyber-speed. 

Another thing you are wrong about I assure you is the point you mentioned that I worry that I have done enough.  This is a misunderstanding on your part of what the righteousness of God is, which is a gift.  God's righteousness is like the wedding garment given the guests at the wedding feast - in the parable they were drummed in from the alleys and homeless shelters (like me) and brought into the wedding, given the garment of righteousness (Christ) and celebrate the wedding of Christ to the church (the bride).  My trust isn't in my amount of righteous works - though I am highly motivated. 

A really neat thing about this; I can do good works without the corrupted aim of self-interest (earning my salvation by my works).  You have to realize this is totally different than what you described. 

What makes suicide bombers is false prophets with false doctrine.  Examine the teachings of Christ and you find He was made perfect in making Himself weak - allowing Himself to be as if weak, allowing Himself to be mocked, spit on, crucified, still mocked by you and others.  It's not amazing when a powerful warrior conquers a weaker - but it's remarkable when the King of Kings' Power is made perfect in weakness.  Through His death He destroyed the power of the second death.  Some day you are going to want what Jesus has, hopefully sooner rather than later.  Some day you will bow before Jesus and acknowledge He is the King of Kings - hopefully sooner rather than later. 

I don't fear death.  I fear God - however God has shown me ultimate love, so it is a fear of respect. 

As far as your signature; the principle of faith conquers and busts through doubts and questionings.  Once you believe in Jesus in your heart and understand that everything He said, says and did/does is exactly right - there's no doubts about Him or God or the Holy Spirit.  They Know What They're doing, They are on top of Their Game.   Faith is the victory - Faith in Jesus.  

 

 

 

 

Thanks back at you.

You used a theatrical analogy on a person who works part-time as an actor. You are not a star in God's play I agree. However, you do seem to expect star treatment from others in the cast. You often forget that you're in an ensemble. You're not as obvious of a divo as Joel Osteen but you share his qualities. You're a slave to the script when you like it and ad lib when you don't (in spite of the fact that others take their cues from you and try to follow what you're saying).

Does Christ actually work for people or does he simply mask the symptoms while the disease goes merrily on? I often wonder if Christians are genuinely happy or just cover up how messed up they and/or their lives really are.

The only concern I have for you is whether you are under proper medical care for the lithium. Are you?

I don't fear death as you do, praying for an afterlife with the God you hoped you guessed correctly is the real one. I happen to enjoy life - one can enjoy life without fearing death.

If good works are not important to salvation why did Jesus ask so many people to actually do something to gain it? When asked, Jesus always responded with "Follow the commandments" and "Sell all you have and give it to the poor - then come follow me". What do you think about what James wrote in chapter 2 (particularly verses 14-19)?

What you believe smacks of Paulism - just believe really hard and you're in. If you want to do good works, okay. If you want to be hateful to others and screw them over, that's cool too. Just as long as you believe.

Suicide bombers believe that their god wants them to do that to gain their reward in their god's version of heaven. The post I responded to read like you followed that view. Now I realize that you wouldn't do that because that would involve you getting active for your beliefs and actually doing something. As a good Paulist, that's something you see no need for.

Do you fear God or respect him? It's two different things - If you have respect you don't need fear and if you have fear you will never (and should never) get respect.

There's a difference between answering doubts and suspending them. I hope you learn the difference.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Hi guys - was on a computer-free hiatus with family.

So God wrote and directed your movie, eh Fonzie/Meph? You do realize that that means he didn't do all that much for you, right? Unless you believe that you are merely a drone that he moves for his amusement, you are still the active force in your life. You interpret the script as it seems reasonable to you, even going off book as you've done here when topics get uncomfortable for you.

As for death holding no terrors for me, I stand by my statement. Death is a natural process. I don't fear natural processes. However, this doesn't mean I have a death wish. I'd like to live a long life. If it doesn't happen, I won't be blaming a god or worrying that I didn't kiss his butt the correct way.

It's people like you I worry about most. I don't fear you but I am concerned for your welfare. You simultaneously fear death and ardently desire it. You fear it because you think you might not have done enough to avoid eternal torment. You can't wait for it because you believe in the afterlife of bliss and want to leave the messes of this world (some of which you contributed to).

This is the attitude that makes suicide bombers.

Your vid was pulled for terms of use violations so I didn't see it.

Why do you fear and love death as you do?

 

JcGacfly,

 

Thanks for your nice reasonably stated reply.  

You seem to make me out to be a star God cast and I'm making Him money or something.  No, it was as if God got me out of a dumpster and healed the sickness, lifted me to the level of friend, family, same last name, honored, feasted & partied with, et. al.  I do go off script, you had that right.  I want to be on script.  The script of this discussion is the fact that Christ in us does and has worked for multitudes.  And it's working for me, getting better every day. 

I would like to totally free you from any concerns of me.  Save your concerns for the likes of yourself and anonymouse.

Ok, death holds no terrors for you and yet you are not wanting to rush it.  I could use the same words you did yet have a different meaning I think because we aren't on the same road.  If our roads have even crossed it has been at cyber-speed. 

Another thing you are wrong about I assure you is the point you mentioned that I worry that I have done enough.  This is a misunderstanding on your part of what the righteousness of God is, which is a gift.  God's righteousness is like the wedding garment given the guests at the wedding feast - in the parable they were drummed in from the alleys and homeless shelters (like me) and brought into the wedding, given the garment of righteousness (Christ) and celebrate the wedding of Christ to the church (the bride).  My trust isn't in my amount of righteous works - though I am highly motivated. 

A really neat thing about this; I can do good works without the corrupted aim of self-interest (earning my salvation by my works).  You have to realize this is totally different than what you described. 

What makes suicide bombers is false prophets with false doctrine.  Examine the teachings of Christ and you find He was made perfect in making Himself weak - allowing Himself to be as if weak, allowing Himself to be mocked, spit on, crucified, still mocked by you and others.  It's not amazing when a powerful warrior conquers a weaker - but it's remarkable when the King of Kings' Power is made perfect in weakness.  Through His death He destroyed the power of the second death.  Some day you are going to want what Jesus has, hopefully sooner rather than later.  Some day you will bow before Jesus and acknowledge He is the King of Kings - hopefully sooner rather than later. 

I don't fear death.  I fear God - however God has shown me ultimate love, so it is a fear of respect. 

As far as your signature; the principle of faith conquers and busts through doubts and questionings.  Once you believe in Jesus in your heart and understand that everything He said, says and did/does is exactly right - there's no doubts about Him or God or the Holy Spirit.  They Know What They're doing, They are on top of Their Game.   Faith is the victory - Faith in Jesus.  

 

 

 

 

Thanks back at you.

You used a theatrical analogy on a person who works part-time as an actor. You are not a star in God's play I agree. However, you do seem to expect star treatment from others in the cast. You often forget that you're in an ensemble. You're not as obvious of a divo as Joel Osteen but you share his qualities. You're a slave to the script when you like it and ad lib when you don't (in spite of the fact that others take their cues from you and try to follow what you're saying).

Does Christ actually work for people or does he simply mask the symptoms while the disease goes merrily on? I often wonder if Christians are genuinely happy or just cover up how messed up they and/or their lives really are.

The only concern I have for you is whether you are under proper medical care for the lithium. Are you?

I don't fear death as you do, praying for an afterlife with the God you hoped you guessed correctly is the real one. I happen to enjoy life - one can enjoy life without fearing death.

If good works are not important to salvation why did Jesus ask so many people to actually do something to gain it? When asked, Jesus always responded with "Follow the commandments" and "Sell all you have and give it to the poor - then come follow me". What do you think about what James wrote in chapter 2 (particularly verses 14-19)?

What you believe smacks of Paulism - just believe really hard and you're in. If you want to do good works, okay. If you want to be hateful to others and screw them over, that's cool too. Just as long as you believe.

Suicide bombers believe that their god wants them to do that to gain their reward in their god's version of heaven. The post I responded to read like you followed that view. Now I realize that you wouldn't do that because that would involve you getting active for your beliefs and actually doing something. As a good Paulist, that's something you see no need for.

Do you fear God or respect him? It's two different things - If you have respect you don't need fear and if you have fear you will never (and should never) get respect.

There's a difference between answering doubts and suspending them. I hope you learn the difference.

 

 

JcGadfly,

 

I think your vacation did you quite a lot of good actually.  You can characterize me however you want but it's a foolish pursuit for me to start answering your mischaracterizations.  Have at it.  One reason they don't touch me more than a sharp thorn is that I don't do that as far as I know, so when you critique me it just beads like water on a '55 show chevy.  I'm not a part of your ensemble that may be your area of irritation when it comes to interpretation. 

Christ and God and the Holy Spirit work in me with the same power that raised Jesus from the dead - though it's taking longer with me than raising Him.  It's something to see your "old Fonzie" dying off and the "new Fonzie" in Christ getting stronger and taking the promised land, getting boots on the ground.  The disease is cured by the Great Physician, yes.  There is maintenance, daily cleansing with the Blood of Christ, a fresh batch of manna gathered, a good draught from the Living Fountain.  There is a constant need for Christ and Christ being Who He is - we are not let down in that need.

Don't be concerned for me in any way, medically or otherwise, real or mocking fake.  I know at times I was doing that to you, saying, "my friend JcGadfly" - but with irony obviously.  You understood and I wasn't trying to make a fool out of you with fakeness, and I would hope you would despense with it with me.  Let's not kid each other with crap.

Yes you can do your impression of what you think is "enjoying life" true.  I am confident you have "settled" for a low life.  The reason I say that is not because I'm all knowing, but I believe the Scriptures.  The Holy Spirit through Solomon in Ecclesiastes said that without God there can be no enjoyment.  I'm 100 % sure that's true.  You probably don't believe that.  That's your privilege. 

But you are going to die - and this is reasonable to say.  And you don't have a hope or a plan beyond that do you?  And you know some people that have died before their time, right?  What is the meaning to all this?  Do you as a thinking man accept that all there is to life is a few Big Macks and death?  You don't fear the second death either - but when you are looking at the eternity you have passed up as pointed out to you in Christ by old Fonzie here you'll be in a different frame of mind - but it'll be too late.

It's a hard thing for you to understand the heart thing of the difference of doing good works yes but not because they are a payment for salvation but instead a response of love for Christ.  You can really understand this if you accept Christ and do it.  It is also as James points out a evidence of true faith and spiritual life. 

Suicide bombers are following a false prophet.  The fact that there will be false prophets is pointed out by Scripture which you don't accept and therefore don't have a basis for understanding.  The sheep know the Master's voice - they won't respond to an alien.

Again you try to separate out Paul from the herd and you and your coyotes try to cut him down.  This springs from another thing you don't understand though I've said it before (who's not listening here?) - that all Scripture is the Spirit of Christ speaking through the writers.  They are not matters of their own interpretation.  I'd give you book chapter and verse but you don't want preaching and have only recently started discussing.

You can characterize me as not doing anything but the concern I have is being justified before God and not you.  He knows what I'm doing.  Just because I don't parade something doesn't mean there aren't things.  You were just using up some extra ammunition you had laying around? 

I'm not coming to you for definitions of Scriptural terms because you don't understand Scripture.  I fear God.  I love God.  I respect God.  I don't doubt God.  I understand you do.  I'm trying to answer your doubts honestly.  I don't have any doubts about Jesus and God and the Scripture.  Those are completely settled, regardless, I know they are all true.  My understanding is imperfect, but I know these are true.

 

 

 

 

 

 


jcgadfly
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Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Hi guys - was on a computer-free hiatus with family.

So God wrote and directed your movie, eh Fonzie/Meph? You do realize that that means he didn't do all that much for you, right? Unless you believe that you are merely a drone that he moves for his amusement, you are still the active force in your life. You interpret the script as it seems reasonable to you, even going off book as you've done here when topics get uncomfortable for you.

As for death holding no terrors for me, I stand by my statement. Death is a natural process. I don't fear natural processes. However, this doesn't mean I have a death wish. I'd like to live a long life. If it doesn't happen, I won't be blaming a god or worrying that I didn't kiss his butt the correct way.

It's people like you I worry about most. I don't fear you but I am concerned for your welfare. You simultaneously fear death and ardently desire it. You fear it because you think you might not have done enough to avoid eternal torment. You can't wait for it because you believe in the afterlife of bliss and want to leave the messes of this world (some of which you contributed to).

This is the attitude that makes suicide bombers.

Your vid was pulled for terms of use violations so I didn't see it.

Why do you fear and love death as you do?

 

JcGacfly,

 

Thanks for your nice reasonably stated reply.  

You seem to make me out to be a star God cast and I'm making Him money or something.  No, it was as if God got me out of a dumpster and healed the sickness, lifted me to the level of friend, family, same last name, honored, feasted & partied with, et. al.  I do go off script, you had that right.  I want to be on script.  The script of this discussion is the fact that Christ in us does and has worked for multitudes.  And it's working for me, getting better every day. 

I would like to totally free you from any concerns of me.  Save your concerns for the likes of yourself and anonymouse.

Ok, death holds no terrors for you and yet you are not wanting to rush it.  I could use the same words you did yet have a different meaning I think because we aren't on the same road.  If our roads have even crossed it has been at cyber-speed. 

Another thing you are wrong about I assure you is the point you mentioned that I worry that I have done enough.  This is a misunderstanding on your part of what the righteousness of God is, which is a gift.  God's righteousness is like the wedding garment given the guests at the wedding feast - in the parable they were drummed in from the alleys and homeless shelters (like me) and brought into the wedding, given the garment of righteousness (Christ) and celebrate the wedding of Christ to the church (the bride).  My trust isn't in my amount of righteous works - though I am highly motivated. 

A really neat thing about this; I can do good works without the corrupted aim of self-interest (earning my salvation by my works).  You have to realize this is totally different than what you described. 

What makes suicide bombers is false prophets with false doctrine.  Examine the teachings of Christ and you find He was made perfect in making Himself weak - allowing Himself to be as if weak, allowing Himself to be mocked, spit on, crucified, still mocked by you and others.  It's not amazing when a powerful warrior conquers a weaker - but it's remarkable when the King of Kings' Power is made perfect in weakness.  Through His death He destroyed the power of the second death.  Some day you are going to want what Jesus has, hopefully sooner rather than later.  Some day you will bow before Jesus and acknowledge He is the King of Kings - hopefully sooner rather than later. 

I don't fear death.  I fear God - however God has shown me ultimate love, so it is a fear of respect. 

As far as your signature; the principle of faith conquers and busts through doubts and questionings.  Once you believe in Jesus in your heart and understand that everything He said, says and did/does is exactly right - there's no doubts about Him or God or the Holy Spirit.  They Know What They're doing, They are on top of Their Game.   Faith is the victory - Faith in Jesus.  

 

 

 

 

Thanks back at you.

You used a theatrical analogy on a person who works part-time as an actor. You are not a star in God's play I agree. However, you do seem to expect star treatment from others in the cast. You often forget that you're in an ensemble. You're not as obvious of a divo as Joel Osteen but you share his qualities. You're a slave to the script when you like it and ad lib when you don't (in spite of the fact that others take their cues from you and try to follow what you're saying).

Does Christ actually work for people or does he simply mask the symptoms while the disease goes merrily on? I often wonder if Christians are genuinely happy or just cover up how messed up they and/or their lives really are.

The only concern I have for you is whether you are under proper medical care for the lithium. Are you?

I don't fear death as you do, praying for an afterlife with the God you hoped you guessed correctly is the real one. I happen to enjoy life - one can enjoy life without fearing death.

If good works are not important to salvation why did Jesus ask so many people to actually do something to gain it? When asked, Jesus always responded with "Follow the commandments" and "Sell all you have and give it to the poor - then come follow me". What do you think about what James wrote in chapter 2 (particularly verses 14-19)?

What you believe smacks of Paulism - just believe really hard and you're in. If you want to do good works, okay. If you want to be hateful to others and screw them over, that's cool too. Just as long as you believe.

Suicide bombers believe that their god wants them to do that to gain their reward in their god's version of heaven. The post I responded to read like you followed that view. Now I realize that you wouldn't do that because that would involve you getting active for your beliefs and actually doing something. As a good Paulist, that's something you see no need for.

Do you fear God or respect him? It's two different things - If you have respect you don't need fear and if you have fear you will never (and should never) get respect.

There's a difference between answering doubts and suspending them. I hope you learn the difference.

 

 

JcGadfly,

 

I think your vacation did you quite a lot of good actually.  You can characterize me however you want but it's a foolish pursuit for me to start answering your mischaracterizations.  Have at it.  One reason they don't touch me more than a sharp thorn is that I don't do that as far as I know, so when you critique me it just beads like water on a '55 show chevy.  I'm not a part of your ensemble that may be your area of irritation when it comes to interpretation. 

Christ and God and the Holy Spirit work in me with the same power that raised Jesus from the dead - though it's taking longer with me than raising Him.  It's something to see your "old Fonzie" dying off and the "new Fonzie" in Christ getting stronger and taking the promised land, getting boots on the ground.  The disease is cured by the Great Physician, yes.  There is maintenance, daily cleansing with the Blood of Christ, a fresh batch of manna gathered, a good draught from the Living Fountain.  There is a constant need for Christ and Christ being Who He is - we are not let down in that need.

Don't be concerned for me in any way, medically or otherwise, real or mocking fake.  I know at times I was doing that to you, saying, "my friend JcGadfly" - but with irony obviously.  You understood and I wasn't trying to make a fool out of you with fakeness, and I would hope you would despense with it with me.  Let's not kid each other with crap.

Yes you can do your impression of what you think is "enjoying life" true.  I am confident you have "settled" for a low life.  The reason I say that is not because I'm all knowing, but I believe the Scriptures.  The Holy Spirit through Solomon in Ecclesiastes said that without God there can be no enjoyment.  I'm 100 % sure that's true.  You probably don't believe that.  That's your privilege. 

But you are going to die - and this is reasonable to say.  And you don't have a hope or a plan beyond that do you?  And you know some people that have died before their time, right?  What is the meaning to all this?  Do you as a thinking man accept that all there is to life is a few Big Macks and death?  You don't fear the second death either - but when you are looking at the eternity you have passed up as pointed out to you in Christ by old Fonzie here you'll be in a different frame of mind - but it'll be too late.

It's a hard thing for you to understand the heart thing of the difference of doing good works yes but not because they are a payment for salvation but instead a response of love for Christ.  You can really understand this if you accept Christ and do it.  It is also as James points out a evidence of true faith and spiritual life. 

Suicide bombers are following a false prophet.  The fact that there will be false prophets is pointed out by Scripture which you don't accept and therefore don't have a basis for understanding.  The sheep know the Master's voice - they won't respond to an alien.

Again you try to separate out Paul from the herd and you and your coyotes try to cut him down.  This springs from another thing you don't understand though I've said it before (who's not listening here?) - that all Scripture is the Spirit of Christ speaking through the writers.  They are not matters of their own interpretation.  I'd give you book chapter and verse but you don't want preaching and have only recently started discussing.

You can characterize me as not doing anything but the concern I have is being justified before God and not you.  He knows what I'm doing.  Just because I don't parade something doesn't mean there aren't things.  You were just using up some extra ammunition you had laying around? 

I'm not coming to you for definitions of Scriptural terms because you don't understand Scripture.  I fear God.  I love God.  I respect God.  I don't doubt God.  I understand you do.  I'm trying to answer your doubts honestly.  I don't have any doubts about Jesus and God and the Scripture.  Those are completely settled, regardless, I know they are all true.  My understanding is imperfect, but I know these are true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I find it funny and telling that you claim I've mischaracterized you and then the rest of your post falls in line with my characterization. Now to your post.

1. We are members of the same ensemble as we are both humans living on Earth. That, however, was not the ensemble I was speaking of. Many Christians would decry your arrogance as not being of God. Are they not true Christians because they disagree with you? Or are you God's only child?

2. Daily cleansing? Do you believe you sin daily?

3. I never fake concern when it comes to medical situations (been too close to death too many times - that could also be why I don't fear it - frequent exposure). If you are telling me you've got it under control then I'll leave it at that.

4. I'm sorry you were faking friendship in order to get in some shots at me. That's also not a good way to bring someone to Jesus. Then again, I don't think you're trying to do more than play "See how much better my life is than yours".

5. see 4.

6. You don't have a plan for after death either. You have a hope that you picked the right God - that's it. Keep being the kind of Christian you're showing me here and if you have the right God, we might be sharing a bench by the fire.

7. If James is correct, why are you doing good things out of a fear of hell and death?

8. If I'm cutting Paul out of the herd, I'm using his writing to do it. Read Romans 4 where he defines sin and the commandments out of existence for you believer types.

9. I'm not asking you to be justified before me. All I'm asking is that you walk the Christian walk according to Christ's teachings instead of what you're doing now.

10. Since I don't understand Scripture your way, I don't understand Scripture? Son, you've got brass ones - I'll give you that.

 

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Fonzie wrote:You can

Fonzie wrote:
You can characterize me however you want but it's a foolish pursuit for me to start answering your mischaracterizations.

If someone really mischaracterised you, it would be really easy to prove that. You never do, you just accuse people. Wich makes your posts nothing more than a collection of childish insults.

Fonzie wrote:
  Have at it.  One reason they don't touch me more than a sharp thorn is that I don't do that as far as I know, so when you critique me it just beads like water on a '55 show chevy.  I'm not a part of your ensemble that may be your area of irritation when it comes to interpretation.

In other, slightly less theatrical words, whatever we say, you're not going to listen. We kinda figured that out a while ago. I'm just in it so see exactly how dishonest you can get.

Fonzie wrote:
Christ and God and the Holy Spirit work in me with the same power that raised Jesus from the dead - though it's taking longer with me than raising Him.  It's something to see your "old Fonzie" dying off and the "new Fonzie" in Christ getting stronger and taking the promised land, getting boots on the ground.  The disease is cured by the Great Physician, yes.  There is maintenance, daily cleansing with the Blood of Christ, a fresh batch of manna gathered, a good draught from the Living Fountain.  There is a constant need for Christ and Christ being Who He is - we are not let down in that need.

The problem with all this biblical rethoric is that it doesn't actually mean anything.

Fonzie wrote:
Don't be concerned for me in any way, medically or otherwise, real or mocking fake.  I know at times I was doing that to you, saying, "my friend JcGadfly" - but with irony obviously.  You understood and I wasn't trying to make a fool out of you with fakeness, and I would hope you would despense with it with me.

I'm afraid I can't just switch off my concern the way you can switch of your humanity. You're the one who brought up the lithium, which is a potentionally toxic drug. If you're self-medicating without a doctor's supervision then you're putting your health in danger. Not to mention the influence a wrong dosage could have on the continued succesful treatment of your bipolar disorder. Taking your sometimes hysterical and viscious behaviour here into account, I'm not sure if the treatment is at all succesful to begin with.

So I ask you again, do you have your blood analysed regularly, at least once a week ?

Fonzie wrote:
Let's not kid each other with crap.

The mere suggestion that I would kid about something like that is intensely insulting.

Fonzie wrote:
Yes you can do your impression of what you think is "enjoying life" true.  I am confident you have "settled" for a low life.  The reason I say that is not because I'm all knowing, but I believe the Scriptures.  The Holy Spirit through Solomon in Ecclesiastes said that without God there can be no enjoyment.  I'm 100 % sure that's true.  You probably don't believe that.  That's your privilege.

Your disdain for people who don't share your version of your religion is noted, but we got that message long ago. Who do you keep repeating it ?

Fonzie wrote:
But you are going to die - and this is reasonable to say.  And you don't have a hope or a plan beyond that do you?  And you know some people that have died before their time, right?  What is the meaning to all this?  Do you as a thinking man accept that all there is to life is a few Big Macks and death?  You don't fear the second death either - but when you are looking at the eternity you have passed up as pointed out to you in Christ by old Fonzie here you'll be in a different frame of mind - but it'll be too late.

You're hoping for weakness at the time of death ? That's what vultures do. No, this is not a mischaracterisation.

Fonzie wrote:
It's a hard thing for you to understand the heart thing of the difference of doing good works yes but not because they are a payment for salvation but instead a response of love for Christ.  You can really understand this if you accept Christ and do it.  It is also as James points out a evidence of true faith and spiritual life.

The difference exists only in your mind. Why is it different ? Because Meph says so. I'm afraid that won't do.

Fonzie wrote:
Suicide bombers are following a false prophet.  The fact that there will be false prophets is pointed out by Scripture which you don't accept and therefore don't have a basis for understanding.  The sheep know the Master's voice - they won't respond to an alien.

You have already admitted you would kill an innocent child if god asked you to. Or would you like to try and claim that I mischaracterised the word "yes" ?

Fonzie wrote:
Again you try to separate out Paul from the herd and you and your coyotes try to cut him down.  This springs from another thing you don't understand though I've said it before (who's not listening here?)

I think that would be the guy who's been dodging my questions for about 4 or 5 pages now. Yes, that's you.

Fonzie wrote:
- that all Scripture is the Spirit of Christ speaking through the writers.  They are not matters of their own interpretation.  I'd give you book chapter and verse but you don't want preaching and have only recently started discussing.

Wow. That's the biggest lie you've told so far.  He's been trying to have a discussion with you since 2007.

Fonzie wrote:
You can characterize me as not doing anything but the concern I have is being justified before God and not you.  He knows what I'm doing.  Just because I don't parade something doesn't mean there aren't things.  You were just using up some extra ammunition you had laying around?

You didn't respond to the point he's making. Gee, I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to point that out.

Fonzie wrote:
I'm not coming to you for definitions of Scriptural terms because you don't understand Scripture.  I fear God.  I love God.  I respect God.  I don't doubt God.  I understand you do.  I'm trying to answer your doubts honestly. I don't have any doubts about Jesus and God and the Scripture.  Those are completely settled, regardless, I know they are all true.  My understanding is imperfect, but I know these are true.

You just admitted that you consider your interpretation of scripture the only source of truth.

Mischaracterisation ? Read what you just wrote. "My understanding is imperfect, but I know these are true" ? Do I really have to explain why that doesn't make sense, no matter how you slice it ?

Question : Are you the same person who made the "What faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads ?

Another question : "Have you had your blood analysed at any time after you started taking lithium ? And do you even know the real reason why you're taking a relatively low dosage ?

 


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Miss or Mr Characterization

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Hi guys - was on a computer-free hiatus with family.

So God wrote and directed your movie, eh Fonzie/Meph? You do realize that that means he didn't do all that much for you, right? Unless you believe that you are merely a drone that he moves for his amusement, you are still the active force in your life. You interpret the script as it seems reasonable to you, even going off book as you've done here when topics get uncomfortable for you.

As for death holding no terrors for me, I stand by my statement. Death is a natural process. I don't fear natural processes. However, this doesn't mean I have a death wish. I'd like to live a long life. If it doesn't happen, I won't be blaming a god or worrying that I didn't kiss his butt the correct way.

It's people like you I worry about most. I don't fear you but I am concerned for your welfare. You simultaneously fear death and ardently desire it. You fear it because you think you might not have done enough to avoid eternal torment. You can't wait for it because you believe in the afterlife of bliss and want to leave the messes of this world (some of which you contributed to).

This is the attitude that makes suicide bombers.

Your vid was pulled for terms of use violations so I didn't see it.

Why do you fear and love death as you do?

 

JcGacfly,

 

Thanks for your nice reasonably stated reply.  

You seem to make me out to be a star God cast and I'm making Him money or something.  No, it was as if God got me out of a dumpster and healed the sickness, lifted me to the level of friend, family, same last name, honored, feasted & partied with, et. al.  I do go off script, you had that right.  I want to be on script.  The script of this discussion is the fact that Christ in us does and has worked for multitudes.  And it's working for me, getting better every day. 

I would like to totally free you from any concerns of me.  Save your concerns for the likes of yourself and anonymouse.

Ok, death holds no terrors for you and yet you are not wanting to rush it.  I could use the same words you did yet have a different meaning I think because we aren't on the same road.  If our roads have even crossed it has been at cyber-speed. 

Another thing you are wrong about I assure you is the point you mentioned that I worry that I have done enough.  This is a misunderstanding on your part of what the righteousness of God is, which is a gift.  God's righteousness is like the wedding garment given the guests at the wedding feast - in the parable they were drummed in from the alleys and homeless shelters (like me) and brought into the wedding, given the garment of righteousness (Christ) and celebrate the wedding of Christ to the church (the bride).  My trust isn't in my amount of righteous works - though I am highly motivated. 

A really neat thing about this; I can do good works without the corrupted aim of self-interest (earning my salvation by my works).  You have to realize this is totally different than what you described. 

What makes suicide bombers is false prophets with false doctrine.  Examine the teachings of Christ and you find He was made perfect in making Himself weak - allowing Himself to be as if weak, allowing Himself to be mocked, spit on, crucified, still mocked by you and others.  It's not amazing when a powerful warrior conquers a weaker - but it's remarkable when the King of Kings' Power is made perfect in weakness.  Through His death He destroyed the power of the second death.  Some day you are going to want what Jesus has, hopefully sooner rather than later.  Some day you will bow before Jesus and acknowledge He is the King of Kings - hopefully sooner rather than later. 

I don't fear death.  I fear God - however God has shown me ultimate love, so it is a fear of respect. 

As far as your signature; the principle of faith conquers and busts through doubts and questionings.  Once you believe in Jesus in your heart and understand that everything He said, says and did/does is exactly right - there's no doubts about Him or God or the Holy Spirit.  They Know What They're doing, They are on top of Their Game.   Faith is the victory - Faith in Jesus.  

 

 

 

 

Thanks back at you.

You used a theatrical analogy on a person who works part-time as an actor. You are not a star in God's play I agree. However, you do seem to expect star treatment from others in the cast. You often forget that you're in an ensemble. You're not as obvious of a divo as Joel Osteen but you share his qualities. You're a slave to the script when you like it and ad lib when you don't (in spite of the fact that others take their cues from you and try to follow what you're saying).

Does Christ actually work for people or does he simply mask the symptoms while the disease goes merrily on? I often wonder if Christians are genuinely happy or just cover up how messed up they and/or their lives really are.

The only concern I have for you is whether you are under proper medical care for the lithium. Are you?

I don't fear death as you do, praying for an afterlife with the God you hoped you guessed correctly is the real one. I happen to enjoy life - one can enjoy life without fearing death.

If good works are not important to salvation why did Jesus ask so many people to actually do something to gain it? When asked, Jesus always responded with "Follow the commandments" and "Sell all you have and give it to the poor - then come follow me". What do you think about what James wrote in chapter 2 (particularly verses 14-19)?

What you believe smacks of Paulism - just believe really hard and you're in. If you want to do good works, okay. If you want to be hateful to others and screw them over, that's cool too. Just as long as you believe.

Suicide bombers believe that their god wants them to do that to gain their reward in their god's version of heaven. The post I responded to read like you followed that view. Now I realize that you wouldn't do that because that would involve you getting active for your beliefs and actually doing something. As a good Paulist, that's something you see no need for.

Do you fear God or respect him? It's two different things - If you have respect you don't need fear and if you have fear you will never (and should never) get respect.

There's a difference between answering doubts and suspending them. I hope you learn the difference.

 

 

JcGadfly,

 

I think your vacation did you quite a lot of good actually.  You can characterize me however you want but it's a foolish pursuit for me to start answering your mischaracterizations.  Have at it.  One reason they don't touch me more than a sharp thorn is that I don't do that as far as I know, so when you critique me it just beads like water on a '55 show chevy.  I'm not a part of your ensemble that may be your area of irritation when it comes to interpretation. 

Christ and God and the Holy Spirit work in me with the same power that raised Jesus from the dead - though it's taking longer with me than raising Him.  It's something to see your "old Fonzie" dying off and the "new Fonzie" in Christ getting stronger and taking the promised land, getting boots on the ground.  The disease is cured by the Great Physician, yes.  There is maintenance, daily cleansing with the Blood of Christ, a fresh batch of manna gathered, a good draught from the Living Fountain.  There is a constant need for Christ and Christ being Who He is - we are not let down in that need.

Don't be concerned for me in any way, medically or otherwise, real or mocking fake.  I know at times I was doing that to you, saying, "my friend JcGadfly" - but with irony obviously.  You understood and I wasn't trying to make a fool out of you with fakeness, and I would hope you would despense with it with me.  Let's not kid each other with crap.

Yes you can do your impression of what you think is "enjoying life" true.  I am confident you have "settled" for a low life.  The reason I say that is not because I'm all knowing, but I believe the Scriptures.  The Holy Spirit through Solomon in Ecclesiastes said that without God there can be no enjoyment.  I'm 100 % sure that's true.  You probably don't believe that.  That's your privilege. 

But you are going to die - and this is reasonable to say.  And you don't have a hope or a plan beyond that do you?  And you know some people that have died before their time, right?  What is the meaning to all this?  Do you as a thinking man accept that all there is to life is a few Big Macks and death?  You don't fear the second death either - but when you are looking at the eternity you have passed up as pointed out to you in Christ by old Fonzie here you'll be in a different frame of mind - but it'll be too late.

It's a hard thing for you to understand the heart thing of the difference of doing good works yes but not because they are a payment for salvation but instead a response of love for Christ.  You can really understand this if you accept Christ and do it.  It is also as James points out a evidence of true faith and spiritual life. 

Suicide bombers are following a false prophet.  The fact that there will be false prophets is pointed out by Scripture which you don't accept and therefore don't have a basis for understanding.  The sheep know the Master's voice - they won't respond to an alien.

Again you try to separate out Paul from the herd and you and your coyotes try to cut him down.  This springs from another thing you don't understand though I've said it before (who's not listening here?) - that all Scripture is the Spirit of Christ speaking through the writers.  They are not matters of their own interpretation.  I'd give you book chapter and verse but you don't want preaching and have only recently started discussing.

You can characterize me as not doing anything but the concern I have is being justified before God and not you.  He knows what I'm doing.  Just because I don't parade something doesn't mean there aren't things.  You were just using up some extra ammunition you had laying around? 

I'm not coming to you for definitions of Scriptural terms because you don't understand Scripture.  I fear God.  I love God.  I respect God.  I don't doubt God.  I understand you do.  I'm trying to answer your doubts honestly.  I don't have any doubts about Jesus and God and the Scripture.  Those are completely settled, regardless, I know they are all true.  My understanding is imperfect, but I know these are true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I find it funny and telling that you claim I've mischaracterized you and then the rest of your post falls in line with my characterization. Now to your post.

1. We are members of the same ensemble as we are both humans living on Earth. That, however, was not the ensemble I was speaking of. Many Christians would decry your arrogance as not being of God. Are they not true Christians because they disagree with you? Or are you God's only child?

2. Daily cleansing? Do you believe you sin daily?

3. I never fake concern when it comes to medical situations (been too close to death too many times - that could also be why I don't fear it - frequent exposure). If you are telling me you've got it under control then I'll leave it at that.

4. I'm sorry you were faking friendship in order to get in some shots at me. That's also not a good way to bring someone to Jesus. Then again, I don't think you're trying to do more than play "See how much better my life is than yours".

5. see 4.

6. You don't have a plan for after death either. You have a hope that you picked the right God - that's it. Keep being the kind of Christian you're showing me here and if you have the right God, we might be sharing a bench by the fire.

7. If James is correct, why are you doing good things out of a fear of hell and death?

8. If I'm cutting Paul out of the herd, I'm using his writing to do it. Read Romans 4 where he defines sin and the commandments out of existence for you believer types.

9. I'm not asking you to be justified before me. All I'm asking is that you walk the Christian walk according to Christ's teachings instead of what you're doing now.

10. Since I don't understand Scripture your way, I don't understand Scripture? Son, you've got brass ones - I'll give you that.

 

 

 

 

JcGadfly,

Your perspective is the same for your challenges as your perseption of my answers.  While you are entertained like the retired Greeks seeking something new I guess that isn't my purpose, but you're working at your mischaracterizations I'll give you that.  Now for your post.

We are both human beings yes but we don't even agree on what a human being is in relation to this Earth home, that human beings are spirits living in tents which are both fragile and durable - some fancier, some rougher, some incomplete, but all foldable in the end.  One proof of this is the fact that all human beings have some despair.  This despair is related to our spirit need for God Who made us.  We are incomplete without Him.  On this same ensemble subject continuing on if you will, perhaps you have heard the concept that in Christ we are in this world but not of it.  We have died and been born again in Christ.  Jesus was in this world but not of it.  We are now in Christ and thus this is our true state, being in the world but not of it.  The world is defined as this:  approaching life without God.  I can't make you smile on this no matter how hard I try in the accepting sense.  We are communicating from two different worlds.

I'm sorry you continue to fake your understanding of my friendship irony illustration.  I didn't say I faked friendship, I said it was obvious irony; that is, obvious exaggeration.  I guess I could take your floated "concerns" as obvious irony too.  Anyway it's no exaggeration we have trouble with every letter of every word of discussion.  I've gone to Niniveh finally - you are still headed to Tarshish. 

Am I God's only child?  You know I think that question coming from you is an indication of the despair within you.  You feel alone and are projecting it on me.  My friend, (I say this with both irony and prayer to God you will someday accept the truth of Christ knowing at this moment you see it as not the bidding of a friend but the kisses of an enemy), my friend, if you were enjoying the abundant life in Christ shared with the cloud of witnesses, those gone before, those going now, those together with me rejoicing in the riches in Christ - you wouldn't have this lonely despair and project it on me. 

There is a fine line you'll have to admit between a lot of things; for instance, the line between confidence and pride, passion and violence, accomplishment and naval gazing.  There is also a fine line between parading a better way and offering it with good motives.  Yes I have no doubts life in Christ is the abundant life and you refuse that.  I believe my purposes in offering that are pure - in my court of conscience.  You have your court and your lawyer and venue apart from me.

I haven't had much practice at death.  I thought sure I was going to die at one point but it didn't happen.  What I have concerning death are real hopes and promises - plus a portion of my future inheritance.  I have a portion of heaven in my right now - Christ in me, the Holy Spirit in me, God in me.  All that is real.  Christ Who is in me has been in the heart of the earth for three days and nights and risen to Indestructible Life and He and that Life is within me, so yes I have something going for me heading for death - in the blink of an eye my faith will become sight.  I'll be in the physical presence of Christ.  As far as your bench by the fire, who knows, Jesus may visit you with His Salvation and you may become one of His great stories of conversion.  There have been many such stories.  I'm reading now about John Bunyan's conversion.  He might claim to have been more of an infidel than you my friend (I am actually your friend because I'm telling you the truth, the irony is in your not realizing it which I recognize). 

 

Daily cleansing, yes.  Nothing is maintenance free JcGadfly.  Even vinyl siding will get old and brittle.  There is initial cleansing, sins washed away, made whole, brought near to God in Christ, God's law written on the heart, given a new heart.  Then I go through my day and get surprised by the fish chain coming down in the main box and hitting the main feed!!!! and I say D__n!!  And I realize I just condemned the situation to Gehenna and that if the Perfect Lamb of God had done that He wouldn't have been able to be the sacrifice for all sin of all mankind.  So for the love of Christ I am in truth sorry for that and say, "sorry" and I have a promise that the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse me from all sin.  I also am confident I am committing sins I don't know about because there have been things I have come to understand as sin that originally I didn't - such as treating heavenly things as common with "pearly gate jokes", etc.  So I'm sure I'm doing things now I'll learn to correct later.  Daily cleansing yes - needed and available.  

 

Again, since you have trouble understanding the heart thing of purpose in doing things you are in the dark about the great motivation it is to do good things for the glory of Christ.  You don't have faith in me either to bridge that gap in understanding, so I don't know what to do except say believe in Christ and live.  I don't have a sign or miracle for you.  It wouldn't do it anyway.  Jesus healed the blind and skeptics remained skeptics - they just said, "what are we going to do with this guy that so many people are following"?  He had just healed a blind man, so go figure.

 

You don't accept Jesus and you don't understand Paul or what Jesus says through him.  The Scriptures say the demons believe and tremble. 

You wouldn't be the judge of a true Christian any more than those who were in the world that Christ came to and made didn't recognize their maker.  If you come to "know the Truth the Truth will make you free" - from these false impressions of Christ and Christians and the Scriptures. 

You are under the impression that you can reject the Living Word - Jesus - yet you can understand the Written Word of God.  To you this is logical.  To me it's not and that doesn't take brass, just common sense. 

 

 

 

As to your despairing signature; while it's true this world is a wilderness of many mirages; there is the real Water and Manna - Christ.  When you find Christ it's time to quit revving your doubt engines. 

 

 

 

 


Anonymouse
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Fonzie wrote:JcGadfly,Your

Fonzie wrote:

JcGadfly,

Your perspective is the same for your challenges as your perseption of my answers.  While you are entertained like the retired Greeks seeking something new I guess that isn't my purpose, but you're working at your mischaracterizations I'll give you that.

You keep talking about mischaracterizations, but you have yet to give a single example. Kindly stop accusing people of things they didn't do.

Fonzie wrote:
Now for your post.

Now for your sermon.

Fonzie wrote:
We are both human beings yes but we don't even agree on what a human being is in relation to this Earth home, that human beings are spirits living in tents which are both fragile and durable - some fancier, some rougher, some incomplete, but all foldable in the end.  One proof of this is the fact that all human beings have some despair.  This despair is related to our spirit need for God Who made us.  We are incomplete without Him.  On this same ensemble subject continuing on if you will, perhaps you have heard the concept that in Christ we are in this world but not of it.  We have died and been born again in Christ.  Jesus was in this world but not of it.  We are now in Christ and thus this is our true state, being in the world but not of it.  The world is defined as this:  approaching life without God.  I can't make you smile on this no matter how hard I try in the accepting sense.  We are communicating from two different worlds.

This does not even begin to adress the point he made. In fact, you're ignoring what he said completely and giving us another list of baseless claims. This is why we call your posts sermons.

Fonzie wrote:
I'm sorry you continue to fake your understanding of my friendship irony illustration.  I didn't say I faked friendship, I said it was obvious irony; that is, obvious exaggeration.  I guess I could take your floated "concerns" as obvious irony too.  Anyway it's no exaggeration we have trouble with every letter of every word of discussion.  I've gone to Niniveh finally - you are still headed to Tarshish.
 

"Let's not kid each other with crap". Your words. It's like you forget it all the second you post it.

Fonzie wrote:
Am I God's only child?  You know I think that question coming from you is an indication of the despair within you.  You feel alone and are projecting it on me.  My friend, (I say this with both irony and prayer to God you will someday accept the truth of Christ knowing at this moment you see it as not the bidding of a friend but the kisses of an enemy), my friend, if you were enjoying the abundant life in Christ shared with the cloud of witnesses, those gone before, those going now, those together with me rejoicing in the riches in Christ - you wouldn't have this lonely despair and project it on me. 
 

You didn't answer the question, you just threw it back in his face, accusing him of yet more things you're pulling from thin air.

Read the full question again and try to answer it this time. Or shall we just add it to the list of questions you want to run away from ?

Fonzie wrote:
There is a fine line you'll have to admit between a lot of things; for instance, the line between confidence and pride, passion and violence, accomplishment and naval gazing.  There is also a fine line between parading a better way and offering it with good motives.  Yes I have no doubts life in Christ is the abundant life and you refuse that.  I believe my purposes in offering that are pure - in my court of conscience.  You have your court and your lawyer and venue apart from me.

In all your threads, how many different versions of "I am right, and everybody else is wrong because I say so" have you posted ? How many times have we tried to make you understand that you can't make things true just by saying they are ?

You are not god, Meph. Things aren't true just because you say so.

Fonzie wrote:
I haven't had much practice at death.  I thought sure I was going to die at one point but it didn't happen.  What I have concerning death are real hopes and promises - plus a portion of my future inheritance.  I have a portion of heaven in my right now - Christ in me, the Holy Spirit in me, God in me.  All that is real.  Christ Who is in me has been in the heart of the earth for three days and nights and risen to Indestructible Life and He and that Life is within me, so yes I have something going for me heading for death - in the blink of an eye my faith will become sight.  I'll be in the physical presence of Christ. .

Again, fantasy doesn't become reality just because you say so.

Fonzie wrote:
As far as your bench by the fire, who knows, Jesus may visit you with His Salvation and you may become one of His great stories of conversion.

You missed his point again. On purpose ? I can't even tell anymore.

Fonzie wrote:
  There have been many such stories.  I'm reading now about John Bunyan's conversion.  He might claim to have been more of an infidel than you my friend (I am actually your friend because I'm telling you the truth, the irony is in your not realizing it which I recognize). 

That's quite a convoluted excuse for being rude and dishonest. I think you need to look up the word "irony" in the dictionary. Or is this one of those words again where you choose to use a different definition ?

Fonzie wrote:
Daily cleansing, yes.  Nothing is maintenance free JcGadfly.  Even vinyl siding will get old and brittle.  There is initial cleansing, sins washed away, made whole, brought near to God in Christ, God's law written on the heart, given a new heart.  Then I go through my day and get surprised by the fish chain coming down in the main box and hitting the main feed!!!! and I say D__n!!  And I realize I just condemned the situation to Gehenna and that if the Perfect Lamb of God had done that He wouldn't have been able to be the sacrifice for all sin of all mankind.  So for the love of Christ I am in truth sorry for that and say, "sorry" and I have a promise that the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse me from all sin.  I also am confident I am committing sins I don't know about because there have been things I have come to understand as sin that originally I didn't - such as treating heavenly things as common with "pearly gate jokes", etc.  So I'm sure I'm doing things now I'll learn to correct later.  Daily cleansing yes - needed and available.  

Well, considering all the lying and deceiving you do on this board, I'm sure you're doing a lot of cleansing. Just clean it all off, and then go lie to the unbelievers some more, right ?

Keeping that in mind, are you the same person who made the "What faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads ?

Fonzie wrote:
Again, since you have trouble understanding the heart thing of purpose in doing things you are in the dark about the great motivation it is to do good things for the glory of Christ.  You don't have faith in me either to bridge that gap in understanding, so I don't know what to do except say believe in Christ and live. 

Again, another baseless claim, as are all your opinions about him. He doesn't have faith in you to brigde that gap of understanding, you say ? That's a lie. He's been waiting for you to do that since 2007. If that's not faith in you, than what is ?

"Believe in christ and live" ? Changed your mind, have you ? Remember this ?: "Believe in christ or die". Again, your words.

Fonzie wrote:
I don't have a sign or miracle for you.  It wouldn't do it anyway.  Jesus healed the blind and skeptics remained skeptics - they just said, "what are we going to do with this guy that so many people are following"?  He had just healed a blind man, so go figure.

Where in that post does he ask for a miracle ? Nowhere.

Fonzie wrote:
You don't accept Jesus and you don't understand Paul or what Jesus says through him.  The Scriptures say the demons believe and tremble.

You haven't adressed the point he made in 8, so it seems he understands paul a lot better than you do at least.

Fonzie wrote:
You wouldn't be the judge of a true Christian any more than those who were in the world that Christ came to and made didn't recognize their maker.  If you come to "know the Truth the Truth will make you free" - from these false impressions of Christ and Christians and the Scriptures.

Anything that Meph doesn't agree with is false. Why ? Just because. That's why he never has to adress a single point anyone else makes.

Fonzie wrote:
You are under the impression that you can reject the Living Word - Jesus - yet you can understand the Written Word of God.  To you this is logical.  To me it's not and that doesn't take brass, just common sense. 

He's rejecting your interpretations of scripture, not "the living word", "Jesus" or "the written word of god". You're the only one who doesn't think there's a difference. That doesn't just take brass on your part, it takes an almost pathological degree of arrogance.

 

And on the subject of pathological disorders, I'd like ask you once again, if the doctor who gives you the lithium makes sure you have your blood analysed at least once a week.

Fonzie wrote:
As to your despairing signature; while it's true this world is a wilderness of many mirages; there is the real Water and Manna - Christ.  When you find Christ it's time to quit revving your doubt engines. 

Kindly read his signature again, and stop making unsubstantiated claims.


Fonzie
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Anonymouse wrote:Fonzie

Anonymouse wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

JcGadfly,

Your perspective is the same for your challenges as your perseption of my answers.  While you are entertained like the retired Greeks seeking something new I guess that isn't my purpose, but you're working at your mischaracterizations I'll give you that.

You keep talking about mischaracterizations, but you have yet to give a single example. Kindly stop accusing people of things they didn't do.

Fonzie wrote:
Now for your post.

Now for your sermon.

Fonzie wrote:
We are both human beings yes but we don't even agree on what a human being is in relation to this Earth home, that human beings are spirits living in tents which are both fragile and durable - some fancier, some rougher, some incomplete, but all foldable in the end.  One proof of this is the fact that all human beings have some despair.  This despair is related to our spirit need for God Who made us.  We are incomplete without Him.  On this same ensemble subject continuing on if you will, perhaps you have heard the concept that in Christ we are in this world but not of it.  We have died and been born again in Christ.  Jesus was in this world but not of it.  We are now in Christ and thus this is our true state, being in the world but not of it.  The world is defined as this:  approaching life without God.  I can't make you smile on this no matter how hard I try in the accepting sense.  We are communicating from two different worlds.

This does not even begin to adress the point he made. In fact, you're ignoring what he said completely and giving us another list of baseless claims. This is why we call your posts sermons.

Fonzie wrote:
I'm sorry you continue to fake your understanding of my friendship irony illustration.  I didn't say I faked friendship, I said it was obvious irony; that is, obvious exaggeration.  I guess I could take your floated "concerns" as obvious irony too.  Anyway it's no exaggeration we have trouble with every letter of every word of discussion.  I've gone to Niniveh finally - you are still headed to Tarshish.
 

"Let's not kid each other with crap". Your words. It's like you forget it all the second you post it.

Fonzie wrote:
Am I God's only child?  You know I think that question coming from you is an indication of the despair within you.  You feel alone and are projecting it on me.  My friend, (I say this with both irony and prayer to God you will someday accept the truth of Christ knowing at this moment you see it as not the bidding of a friend but the kisses of an enemy), my friend, if you were enjoying the abundant life in Christ shared with the cloud of witnesses, those gone before, those going now, those together with me rejoicing in the riches in Christ - you wouldn't have this lonely despair and project it on me. 
 

You didn't answer the question, you just threw it back in his face, accusing him of yet more things you're pulling from thin air.

Read the full question again and try to answer it this time. Or shall we just add it to the list of questions you want to run away from ?

Fonzie wrote:
There is a fine line you'll have to admit between a lot of things; for instance, the line between confidence and pride, passion and violence, accomplishment and naval gazing.  There is also a fine line between parading a better way and offering it with good motives.  Yes I have no doubts life in Christ is the abundant life and you refuse that.  I believe my purposes in offering that are pure - in my court of conscience.  You have your court and your lawyer and venue apart from me.

In all your threads, how many different versions of "I am right, and everybody else is wrong because I say so" have you posted ? How many times have we tried to make you understand that you can't make things true just by saying they are ?

You are not god, Meph. Things aren't true just because you say so.

Fonzie wrote:
I haven't had much practice at death.  I thought sure I was going to die at one point but it didn't happen.  What I have concerning death are real hopes and promises - plus a portion of my future inheritance.  I have a portion of heaven in my right now - Christ in me, the Holy Spirit in me, God in me.  All that is real.  Christ Who is in me has been in the heart of the earth for three days and nights and risen to Indestructible Life and He and that Life is within me, so yes I have something going for me heading for death - in the blink of an eye my faith will become sight.  I'll be in the physical presence of Christ. .

Again, fantasy doesn't become reality just because you say so.

Fonzie wrote:
As far as your bench by the fire, who knows, Jesus may visit you with His Salvation and you may become one of His great stories of conversion.

You missed his point again. On purpose ? I can't even tell anymore.

Fonzie wrote:
  There have been many such stories.  I'm reading now about John Bunyan's conversion.  He might claim to have been more of an infidel than you my friend (I am actually your friend because I'm telling you the truth, the irony is in your not realizing it which I recognize). 

That's quite a convoluted excuse for being rude and dishonest. I think you need to look up the word "irony" in the dictionary. Or is this one of those words again where you choose to use a different definition ?

Fonzie wrote:
Daily cleansing, yes.  Nothing is maintenance free JcGadfly.  Even vinyl siding will get old and brittle.  There is initial cleansing, sins washed away, made whole, brought near to God in Christ, God's law written on the heart, given a new heart.  Then I go through my day and get surprised by the fish chain coming down in the main box and hitting the main feed!!!! and I say D__n!!  And I realize I just condemned the situation to Gehenna and that if the Perfect Lamb of God had done that He wouldn't have been able to be the sacrifice for all sin of all mankind.  So for the love of Christ I am in truth sorry for that and say, "sorry" and I have a promise that the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse me from all sin.  I also am confident I am committing sins I don't know about because there have been things I have come to understand as sin that originally I didn't - such as treating heavenly things as common with "pearly gate jokes", etc.  So I'm sure I'm doing things now I'll learn to correct later.  Daily cleansing yes - needed and available.  

Well, considering all the lying and deceiving you do on this board, I'm sure you're doing a lot of cleansing. Just clean it all off, and then go lie to the unbelievers some more, right ?

Keeping that in mind, are you the same person who made the "What faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads ?

Fonzie wrote:
Again, since you have trouble understanding the heart thing of purpose in doing things you are in the dark about the great motivation it is to do good things for the glory of Christ.  You don't have faith in me either to bridge that gap in understanding, so I don't know what to do except say believe in Christ and live. 

Again, another baseless claim, as are all your opinions about him. He doesn't have faith in you to brigde that gap of understanding, you say ? That's a lie. He's been waiting for you to do that since 2007. If that's not faith in you, than what is ?

"Believe in christ and live" ? Changed your mind, have you ? Remember this ?: "Believe in christ or die". Again, your words.

Fonzie wrote:
I don't have a sign or miracle for you.  It wouldn't do it anyway.  Jesus healed the blind and skeptics remained skeptics - they just said, "what are we going to do with this guy that so many people are following"?  He had just healed a blind man, so go figure.

Where in that post does he ask for a miracle ? Nowhere.

Fonzie wrote:
You don't accept Jesus and you don't understand Paul or what Jesus says through him.  The Scriptures say the demons believe and tremble.

You haven't adressed the point he made in 8, so it seems he understands paul a lot better than you do at least.

Fonzie wrote:
You wouldn't be the judge of a true Christian any more than those who were in the world that Christ came to and made didn't recognize their maker.  If you come to "know the Truth the Truth will make you free" - from these false impressions of Christ and Christians and the Scriptures.

Anything that Meph doesn't agree with is false. Why ? Just because. That's why he never has to adress a single point anyone else makes.

Fonzie wrote:
You are under the impression that you can reject the Living Word - Jesus - yet you can understand the Written Word of God.  To you this is logical.  To me it's not and that doesn't take brass, just common sense. 

He's rejecting your interpretations of scripture, not "the living word", "Jesus" or "the written word of god". You're the only one who doesn't think there's a difference. That doesn't just take brass on your part, it takes an almost pathological degree of arrogance.

 

And on the subject of pathological disorders, I'd like ask you once again, if the doctor who gives you the lithium makes sure you have your blood analysed at least once a week.

Fonzie wrote:
As to your despairing signature; while it's true this world is a wilderness of many mirages; there is the real Water and Manna - Christ.  When you find Christ it's time to quit revving your doubt engines. 

Kindly read his signature again, and stop making unsubstantiated claims.

 

anonymouse - your post is answered with the first line:  "Fonzie wrote jcgadfly"

 

 


jcgadfly
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Fonzie - I'm asking

Fonzie - I'm asking different questions than anonymouse.

You've given me much to think on - forgive if I don't respond quickly.

Meanwhile, play with his questions.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Fonzie
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Fonzie wrote:Anonymouse

Fonzie wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

JcGadfly,

Your perspective is the same for your challenges as your perseption of my answers.  While you are entertained like the retired Greeks seeking something new I guess that isn't my purpose, but you're working at your mischaracterizations I'll give you that.

You keep talking about mischaracterizations, but you have yet to give a single example. Kindly stop accusing people of things they didn't do.

Fonzie wrote:
Now for your post.

Now for your sermon.

Fonzie wrote:
We are both human beings yes but we don't even agree on what a human being is in relation to this Earth home, that human beings are spirits living in tents which are both fragile and durable - some fancier, some rougher, some incomplete, but all foldable in the end.  One proof of this is the fact that all human beings have some despair.  This despair is related to our spirit need for God Who made us.  We are incomplete without Him.  On this same ensemble subject continuing on if you will, perhaps you have heard the concept that in Christ we are in this world but not of it.  We have died and been born again in Christ.  Jesus was in this world but not of it.  We are now in Christ and thus this is our true state, being in the world but not of it.  The world is defined as this:  approaching life without God.  I can't make you smile on this no matter how hard I try in the accepting sense.  We are communicating from two different worlds.

This does not even begin to adress the point he made. In fact, you're ignoring what he said completely and giving us another list of baseless claims. This is why we call your posts sermons.

Fonzie wrote:
I'm sorry you continue to fake your understanding of my friendship irony illustration.  I didn't say I faked friendship, I said it was obvious irony; that is, obvious exaggeration.  I guess I could take your floated "concerns" as obvious irony too.  Anyway it's no exaggeration we have trouble with every letter of every word of discussion.  I've gone to Niniveh finally - you are still headed to Tarshish.
 

"Let's not kid each other with crap". Your words. It's like you forget it all the second you post it.

Fonzie wrote:
Am I God's only child?  You know I think that question coming from you is an indication of the despair within you.  You feel alone and are projecting it on me.  My friend, (I say this with both irony and prayer to God you will someday accept the truth of Christ knowing at this moment you see it as not the bidding of a friend but the kisses of an enemy), my friend, if you were enjoying the abundant life in Christ shared with the cloud of witnesses, those gone before, those going now, those together with me rejoicing in the riches in Christ - you wouldn't have this lonely despair and project it on me. 
 

You didn't answer the question, you just threw it back in his face, accusing him of yet more things you're pulling from thin air.

Read the full question again and try to answer it this time. Or shall we just add it to the list of questions you want to run away from ?

Fonzie wrote:
There is a fine line you'll have to admit between a lot of things; for instance, the line between confidence and pride, passion and violence, accomplishment and naval gazing.  There is also a fine line between parading a better way and offering it with good motives.  Yes I have no doubts life in Christ is the abundant life and you refuse that.  I believe my purposes in offering that are pure - in my court of conscience.  You have your court and your lawyer and venue apart from me.

In all your threads, how many different versions of "I am right, and everybody else is wrong because I say so" have you posted ? How many times have we tried to make you understand that you can't make things true just by saying they are ?

You are not god, Meph. Things aren't true just because you say so.

Fonzie wrote:
I haven't had much practice at death.  I thought sure I was going to die at one point but it didn't happen.  What I have concerning death are real hopes and promises - plus a portion of my future inheritance.  I have a portion of heaven in my right now - Christ in me, the Holy Spirit in me, God in me.  All that is real.  Christ Who is in me has been in the heart of the earth for three days and nights and risen to Indestructible Life and He and that Life is within me, so yes I have something going for me heading for death - in the blink of an eye my faith will become sight.  I'll be in the physical presence of Christ. .

Again, fantasy doesn't become reality just because you say so.

Fonzie wrote:
As far as your bench by the fire, who knows, Jesus may visit you with His Salvation and you may become one of His great stories of conversion.

You missed his point again. On purpose ? I can't even tell anymore.

Fonzie wrote:
  There have been many such stories.  I'm reading now about John Bunyan's conversion.  He might claim to have been more of an infidel than you my friend (I am actually your friend because I'm telling you the truth, the irony is in your not realizing it which I recognize). 

That's quite a convoluted excuse for being rude and dishonest. I think you need to look up the word "irony" in the dictionary. Or is this one of those words again where you choose to use a different definition ?

Fonzie wrote:
Daily cleansing, yes.  Nothing is maintenance free JcGadfly.  Even vinyl siding will get old and brittle.  There is initial cleansing, sins washed away, made whole, brought near to God in Christ, God's law written on the heart, given a new heart.  Then I go through my day and get surprised by the fish chain coming down in the main box and hitting the main feed!!!! and I say D__n!!  And I realize I just condemned the situation to Gehenna and that if the Perfect Lamb of God had done that He wouldn't have been able to be the sacrifice for all sin of all mankind.  So for the love of Christ I am in truth sorry for that and say, "sorry" and I have a promise that the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse me from all sin.  I also am confident I am committing sins I don't know about because there have been things I have come to understand as sin that originally I didn't - such as treating heavenly things as common with "pearly gate jokes", etc.  So I'm sure I'm doing things now I'll learn to correct later.  Daily cleansing yes - needed and available.  

Well, considering all the lying and deceiving you do on this board, I'm sure you're doing a lot of cleansing. Just clean it all off, and then go lie to the unbelievers some more, right ?

Keeping that in mind, are you the same person who made the "What faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads ?

Fonzie wrote:
Again, since you have trouble understanding the heart thing of purpose in doing things you are in the dark about the great motivation it is to do good things for the glory of Christ.  You don't have faith in me either to bridge that gap in understanding, so I don't know what to do except say believe in Christ and live. 

Again, another baseless claim, as are all your opinions about him. He doesn't have faith in you to brigde that gap of understanding, you say ? That's a lie. He's been waiting for you to do that since 2007. If that's not faith in you, than what is ?

"Believe in christ and live" ? Changed your mind, have you ? Remember this ?: "Believe in christ or die". Again, your words.

Fonzie wrote:
I don't have a sign or miracle for you.  It wouldn't do it anyway.  Jesus healed the blind and skeptics remained skeptics - they just said, "what are we going to do with this guy that so many people are following"?  He had just healed a blind man, so go figure.

Where in that post does he ask for a miracle ? Nowhere.

Fonzie wrote:
You don't accept Jesus and you don't understand Paul or what Jesus says through him.  The Scriptures say the demons believe and tremble.

You haven't adressed the point he made in 8, so it seems he understands paul a lot better than you do at least.

Fonzie wrote:
You wouldn't be the judge of a true Christian any more than those who were in the world that Christ came to and made didn't recognize their maker.  If you come to "know the Truth the Truth will make you free" - from these false impressions of Christ and Christians and the Scriptures.

Anything that Meph doesn't agree with is false. Why ? Just because. That's why he never has to adress a single point anyone else makes.

Fonzie wrote:
You are under the impression that you can reject the Living Word - Jesus - yet you can understand the Written Word of God.  To you this is logical.  To me it's not and that doesn't take brass, just common sense. 

He's rejecting your interpretations of scripture, not "the living word", "Jesus" or "the written word of god". You're the only one who doesn't think there's a difference. That doesn't just take brass on your part, it takes an almost pathological degree of arrogance.

 

And on the subject of pathological disorders, I'd like ask you once again, if the doctor who gives you the lithium makes sure you have your blood analysed at least once a week.

Fonzie wrote:
As to your despairing signature; while it's true this world is a wilderness of many mirages; there is the real Water and Manna - Christ.  When you find Christ it's time to quit revving your doubt engines. 

Kindly read his signature again, and stop making unsubstantiated claims.

 

anonymouse - your post is answered with the first line:  "Fonzie wrote jcgadfly"

 

 

 

anonymouse,

Here is a example of a mischaracterization of my answers:  that God didn't do that much for me.  God did everything for me, I have answered that.  I respect your intellect to be able to understand mischaractization, but you shallowly attack rather than discuss. 

My answers are "sermons" but yours are - what - reason?  conversation?  discussion?  logic? 

My answer to Jcgadfly's extended metaphor that we are a "team" in this movie is that we are from two different kingdoms.  But you just label and shelve rather than consider and discuss.

As far as me ignoring, anonymouse you are the classic ignorer with the wide screen projector.  As I review your post you once again have offered nothing to discuss, just your usual display of "I can attack anything".  And I don't think they are honest attacks because I think you are just trying to bait with pretense of ignorance of what I'm saying.  I'm not going to insult you as if you don't understand and explain it like you're in second grade. 

You haven't answered my challenging of producing any example of discussion from any of your posts.  Did you ignore that? 

 


 

 

 

 


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Fonzie wrote:anonymouse,Hi

Fonzie wrote:

anonymouse,

Hi !

Fonzie wrote:
Here is a example of a mischaracterization of my answers:  that God didn't do that much for me.  God did everything for me, I have answered that.  I respect your intellect to be able to understand mischaractization, but you shallowly attack rather than discuss. 

That's an example of you not understanding what he's trying to tell you, not of him mischaracterising your answer on purpose.

As for me "shallowly attacking" whatever, again, I'm sorry to have to tell you, but you'll have to provide an example before you accuse someone of something like that, or else it's just another insult. Could be you're just "mischaracterising" what I said, right ? Or maybe I could try your other trick, and say the words mean something other to me than they do to you ?

Tiresome, isn't it, these back-and-forth accusations of "mischaracterisation" ? And that's exactly the reason why I kept my questions so simple and to the point. It's impossible to accuse someone of "mischaracterising" the word "yes". Which, if you remember, was your answer to my first question ("would you kill an innocent child if god asked you to ? " ) .

Yes, I ask you these simple questions precisely to avoid any hint of mischaracterisation, or like I told you in my first posts, to avoid making unfair assumptions about you. That's why your aggresive and strange reaction to my questions puzzles me so much. It's almost as if you want to keep things just vague enough, so you can always accuse people of mischaracterising you.

But that's not true, is it ? You want clarity and honesty as much as I do, right ? If so, please finally answer this simple question, cause it would really help clear things up :

Are you the same person who made the "What faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads ?

Fonzie wrote:
My answers are "sermons" but yours are - what - reason?  conversation?  discussion?  logic? 

I already explained why parts of your posts are nothing more than preaching. (See my last post)

As for my posts, well, you may not have noticed, but I've been asking you a couple of questions these last few pages. If you hadn't ignored them so many times, I wouldn't even be in this thread anymore.

Fonzie wrote:
My answer to Jcgadfly's extended metaphor that we are a "team" in this movie is that we are from two different kingdoms.  But you just label and shelve rather than consider and discuss.

You're mischaracterising what I said. (And it will keep going round and round like that untill you answer my question, which is all I wanted in the first place)

Fonzie wrote:
As far as me ignoring, anonymouse you are the classic ignorer with the wide screen projector.

Again, the same problem. You have your nice accusation, but no proof. I, on the other hand, can simply point to the last couple of pages of you ignoring my question.

Fonzie wrote:
As I review your post you once again have offered nothing to discuss, just your usual display of "I can attack anything".

You mean to say you reviewed my posts, and missed the question again ? Btw, if you disagree so strongly with any of the points I made, why didn't you present your counter argument, instead of these unfounded accusations and mischaracterisations of my replies ?

Back-and-forth it goes. Where it stops ? When you answer the question.

Fonzie wrote:
And I don't think they are honest attacks because I think you are just trying to bait with pretense of ignorance of what I'm saying.  I'm not going to insult you as if you don't understand and explain it like you're in second grade.

You have already insulted me (your comments about my lithium question, your uncountable unfounded accusations), so that boat has sailed. And I have no idea which reply you're referring to. My ignored posts are too numerous to count, so you'll have to be more specific.

Fonzie wrote:
You haven't answered my challenging of producing any example of discussion from any of your posts.  Did you ignore that? 

Nope. I answered that "challenge" in my reply to that post, as you well know. You do realise you can just go back and read it, right ? If you remember, I told you to go back to my first post and work your way back from there. The first aborted discussion you would have found there would be where I tried to discuss with you the implications of your answer to my first question. You weren't in the mood, to put it mildly.

 

Now then, I'm going to make this as easy as I can for you. Just answer the question (you know which one), and then we'll discuss the implications of that for a while, and then I'll leave you alone to preach at whoever you like for as long as you please.

Fair enough ?

Oh and this one too, please : Does the doctor who gives you the lithium make sure you have your blood analysed at least once a week ?

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie - I'm

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie - I'm asking different questions than anonymouse.

You've given me much to think on - forgive if I don't respond quickly.

Meanwhile, play with his questions.

Lol, he's been playing with them long enough. I'd rather he'd just answer them now.

Anyway, thanks for letting me go first, and sorry again for not waiting my turn. I won't be long (I hope).

 

Hey, you're a theatre actor, right ? Are you in a play now ?


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Anonymouse wrote:jcgadfly

Anonymouse wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie - I'm asking different questions than anonymouse.

You've given me much to think on - forgive if I don't respond quickly.

Meanwhile, play with his questions.

Lol, he's been playing with them long enough. I'd rather he'd just answer them now.

Anyway, thanks for letting me go first, and sorry again for not waiting my turn. I won't be long (I hope).

 

Hey, you're a theatre actor, right ? Are you in a play now ?

I have an adaptation of A Christmas Carol coming up 12/17-12/19 (radio on stage) and am auditioning Shaw's Major Barbara that will go up late February. Thanks for asking.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote:I have an

jcgadfly wrote:
I have an adaptation of A Christmas Carol coming up 12/17-12/19 (radio on stage)

Are you doing it like Dickens used to do it ? A one-man show ?

jcgadfly wrote:
and am auditioning Shaw's Major Barbara that will go up late February.

Hope you get Mr. Undershaft. He sounds like fun to play.

jcgadfly wrote:
Thanks for asking.

Break a leg, dude !


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NoDeity wrote:Fonzie

NoDeity wrote:

Fonzie wrote:
Ok, death holds no terrors for you and yet you are not wanting to rush it.  I could use the same words you did yet have a different meaning I think because we aren't on the same road.  If our roads have even crossed it has been at cyber-speed.

Regarding death, there is only a little I can add to this quotation from Mark Twain: "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."  IOW, non-existence is no problem at all for that which does not exist.

Because I enjoy my life and, of course, because I share with most of the other inhabitants of this planet the strong instinct of self-preservation, I'm inclined to avoid death, generally.  I wouldn't necessarily want to live forever but merely until I no longer desire life.  I would like to believe that it is possible for me to continue after this poor body ceases to function but there is no good reason to think that any such thing is at all likely and no plausible means by which it might happen and, so, I can not in good conscience hold any such belief.

Dying, of course, is quite another matter.  I cannot be dead, since I no longer exist after I have died.  However, it appears that dying can sometimes be a very physically painful experience and seems like something to avoid (as often as possible  ).

 

Fonzie wrote:
 A really neat thing about this; I can do good works without the corrupted aim of self-interest (earning my salvation by my works).  You have to realize this is totally different than what you described.  

Self-interest is not a corrupting influence.  Rather, it is highly virtuous.  Or, to be more precise, honest and rational self-interest is highly virtuous.  If I help someone who needs it or donate my money or time to a charitable organization, I do so for reasons of self-interest and I am honest enough to acknowledge that fact.  I might do it because it feels good to do good, which is obviously a self-interested motive.  I might do it because I am convinced that it is the right thing to do.  To fail to do what I think is right is to violate my own ethics which, if you think about it a bit, is contrary to my self-interest.

I differ from most religionists and also from some of my fellow atheists in that I deny that actual self-sacrifice is virtuous.  Rather, I think that self-sacrifice is evil.  I think that he who values his own life so poorly that he is eager to give it up is unlikely to value the lives of others much more highly than that.  So, I am less wary of the self-interested man than of the altruism enthusiast.

 

Fonzie wrote:
 What makes suicide bombers is false prophets with false doctrine.  

That's true.  The doctrine that self-sacrifice is (or should be) rewarded is quite horrible.

 

Fonzie wrote:
 Examine the teachings of Christ

You mean that disgusting promoter of self-sacrifice?  Excuse me while I puke.  

 

Fonzie wrote:
 As far as your signature; the principle of faith conquers and busts through doubts and questionings.  Once you believe in Jesus in your heart and understand that everything He said, says and did/does is exactly right - there's no doubts about Him or God or the Holy Spirit.  They Know What They're doing, They are on top of Their Game.   Faith is the victory - Faith in Jesus.  

Faith is really, really disgusting.  Faith is the direct opposite of that which is man's best tool for achieving a better life: reason.

 

 

NoDeity,

Sure there is good management that involves self-interest, but concerning being justified before God for us to think we can pay the debt we owe to God ourselves denies the need for Jesus to have come and die for our sins.  So we set our own works - corrupted by self interest - up as what we are trusting in rather than Christ.  Our own "righteousness" is set up "against Christ" or Anti-Christ.  This self-interest in good works is corrupt.  As far as getting out your crops in harvest and changing the oil in your car (which reminds me) in self interest, I agree that's good management.  The context is different.

The Scriptures totally disagree with you on the subject of faith.  "He who through faith is righteous shall live".  It is through faith that we receive the gift of righteousness, which is Jesus' removing the debt of sin between mankind and God - "He who believes in Jesus and is baptized will be saved". 

To set "reason" up as god is to make it something it isn't and to ask something of it that it doesn't have to give.  Understanding and reason are good things and have their place but their place is not the throne.  That is reserved for God and One Who was once a man walking on earth. 

On your view of "self sacrifice" - this has been an experience of mine in the exercise of faith.  I have given up what I wanted to do on something (a form of denying self will) and done what I understood God wanted me to do and in the process discovered more than I ever imagined.  This is part of "walking by faith". 

I hope you get over your nausea. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Anonymouse wrote:jcgadfly

Anonymouse wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:
I have an adaptation of A Christmas Carol coming up 12/17-12/19 (radio on stage)

Are you doing it like Dickens used to do it ? A one-man show ?

jcgadfly wrote:
and am auditioning Shaw's Major Barbara that will go up late February.

Hope you get Mr. Undershaft. He sounds like fun to play.

jcgadfly wrote:
Thanks for asking.

Break a leg, dude !

The Dickens is an eight person cast (if you're not speaking you're doing sound effects).

Undershaft would be a cool part.

Thanks for the good wishes.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote:The Dickens

jcgadfly wrote:

The Dickens is an eight person cast (if you're not speaking you're doing sound effects).

That's awesome, man. Just like one of those oldfashioned radio plays. I love those to bits. (Now listening to "the Goon Show" on tape. Now those guys could do sound effects)

Let us know if we can listen to that on internet radio somewhere.


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Look, Meph, or whatever you

Look, Meph, or whatever you prefer to call yourself,

I would really like to get out of this thread before I finish highschool, so could you please finally answer my question so we can get on with this ?

I've waited for months for you to answer, posting it time and time again, taking all your insults and threats and preaching , so please, just answer it now, okay ?

 

NoDeity, sorry to but in, but could you let me try and get my question answered before you reply ? I promise he's all yours after that.

 


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Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Hi guys - was on a computer-free hiatus with family.

So God wrote and directed your movie, eh Fonzie/Meph? You do realize that that means he didn't do all that much for you, right? Unless you believe that you are merely a drone that he moves for his amusement, you are still the active force in your life. You interpret the script as it seems reasonable to you, even going off book as you've done here when topics get uncomfortable for you.

As for death holding no terrors for me, I stand by my statement. Death is a natural process. I don't fear natural processes. However, this doesn't mean I have a death wish. I'd like to live a long life. If it doesn't happen, I won't be blaming a god or worrying that I didn't kiss his butt the correct way.

It's people like you I worry about most. I don't fear you but I am concerned for your welfare. You simultaneously fear death and ardently desire it. You fear it because you think you might not have done enough to avoid eternal torment. You can't wait for it because you believe in the afterlife of bliss and want to leave the messes of this world (some of which you contributed to).

This is the attitude that makes suicide bombers.

Your vid was pulled for terms of use violations so I didn't see it.

Why do you fear and love death as you do?

 

JcGacfly,

 

Thanks for your nice reasonably stated reply.  

You seem to make me out to be a star God cast and I'm making Him money or something.  No, it was as if God got me out of a dumpster and healed the sickness, lifted me to the level of friend, family, same last name, honored, feasted & partied with, et. al.  I do go off script, you had that right.  I want to be on script.  The script of this discussion is the fact that Christ in us does and has worked for multitudes.  And it's working for me, getting better every day. 

I would like to totally free you from any concerns of me.  Save your concerns for the likes of yourself and anonymouse.

Ok, death holds no terrors for you and yet you are not wanting to rush it.  I could use the same words you did yet have a different meaning I think because we aren't on the same road.  If our roads have even crossed it has been at cyber-speed. 

Another thing you are wrong about I assure you is the point you mentioned that I worry that I have done enough.  This is a misunderstanding on your part of what the righteousness of God is, which is a gift.  God's righteousness is like the wedding garment given the guests at the wedding feast - in the parable they were drummed in from the alleys and homeless shelters (like me) and brought into the wedding, given the garment of righteousness (Christ) and celebrate the wedding of Christ to the church (the bride).  My trust isn't in my amount of righteous works - though I am highly motivated. 

A really neat thing about this; I can do good works without the corrupted aim of self-interest (earning my salvation by my works).  You have to realize this is totally different than what you described. 

What makes suicide bombers is false prophets with false doctrine.  Examine the teachings of Christ and you find He was made perfect in making Himself weak - allowing Himself to be as if weak, allowing Himself to be mocked, spit on, crucified, still mocked by you and others.  It's not amazing when a powerful warrior conquers a weaker - but it's remarkable when the King of Kings' Power is made perfect in weakness.  Through His death He destroyed the power of the second death.  Some day you are going to want what Jesus has, hopefully sooner rather than later.  Some day you will bow before Jesus and acknowledge He is the King of Kings - hopefully sooner rather than later. 

I don't fear death.  I fear God - however God has shown me ultimate love, so it is a fear of respect. 

As far as your signature; the principle of faith conquers and busts through doubts and questionings.  Once you believe in Jesus in your heart and understand that everything He said, says and did/does is exactly right - there's no doubts about Him or God or the Holy Spirit.  They Know What They're doing, They are on top of Their Game.   Faith is the victory - Faith in Jesus.  

 

 

 

 

Thanks back at you.

You used a theatrical analogy on a person who works part-time as an actor. You are not a star in God's play I agree. However, you do seem to expect star treatment from others in the cast. You often forget that you're in an ensemble. You're not as obvious of a divo as Joel Osteen but you share his qualities. You're a slave to the script when you like it and ad lib when you don't (in spite of the fact that others take their cues from you and try to follow what you're saying).

Does Christ actually work for people or does he simply mask the symptoms while the disease goes merrily on? I often wonder if Christians are genuinely happy or just cover up how messed up they and/or their lives really are.

The only concern I have for you is whether you are under proper medical care for the lithium. Are you?

I don't fear death as you do, praying for an afterlife with the God you hoped you guessed correctly is the real one. I happen to enjoy life - one can enjoy life without fearing death.

If good works are not important to salvation why did Jesus ask so many people to actually do something to gain it? When asked, Jesus always responded with "Follow the commandments" and "Sell all you have and give it to the poor - then come follow me". What do you think about what James wrote in chapter 2 (particularly verses 14-19)?

What you believe smacks of Paulism - just believe really hard and you're in. If you want to do good works, okay. If you want to be hateful to others and screw them over, that's cool too. Just as long as you believe.

Suicide bombers believe that their god wants them to do that to gain their reward in their god's version of heaven. The post I responded to read like you followed that view. Now I realize that you wouldn't do that because that would involve you getting active for your beliefs and actually doing something. As a good Paulist, that's something you see no need for.

Do you fear God or respect him? It's two different things - If you have respect you don't need fear and if you have fear you will never (and should never) get respect.

There's a difference between answering doubts and suspending them. I hope you learn the difference.

 

 

JcGadfly,

 

I think your vacation did you quite a lot of good actually.  You can characterize me however you want but it's a foolish pursuit for me to start answering your mischaracterizations.  Have at it.  One reason they don't touch me more than a sharp thorn is that I don't do that as far as I know, so when you critique me it just beads like water on a '55 show chevy.  I'm not a part of your ensemble that may be your area of irritation when it comes to interpretation. 

Christ and God and the Holy Spirit work in me with the same power that raised Jesus from the dead - though it's taking longer with me than raising Him.  It's something to see your "old Fonzie" dying off and the "new Fonzie" in Christ getting stronger and taking the promised land, getting boots on the ground.  The disease is cured by the Great Physician, yes.  There is maintenance, daily cleansing with the Blood of Christ, a fresh batch of manna gathered, a good draught from the Living Fountain.  There is a constant need for Christ and Christ being Who He is - we are not let down in that need.

Don't be concerned for me in any way, medically or otherwise, real or mocking fake.  I know at times I was doing that to you, saying, "my friend JcGadfly" - but with irony obviously.  You understood and I wasn't trying to make a fool out of you with fakeness, and I would hope you would despense with it with me.  Let's not kid each other with crap.

Yes you can do your impression of what you think is "enjoying life" true.  I am confident you have "settled" for a low life.  The reason I say that is not because I'm all knowing, but I believe the Scriptures.  The Holy Spirit through Solomon in Ecclesiastes said that without God there can be no enjoyment.  I'm 100 % sure that's true.  You probably don't believe that.  That's your privilege. 

But you are going to die - and this is reasonable to say.  And you don't have a hope or a plan beyond that do you?  And you know some people that have died before their time, right?  What is the meaning to all this?  Do you as a thinking man accept that all there is to life is a few Big Macks and death?  You don't fear the second death either - but when you are looking at the eternity you have passed up as pointed out to you in Christ by old Fonzie here you'll be in a different frame of mind - but it'll be too late.

It's a hard thing for you to understand the heart thing of the difference of doing good works yes but not because they are a payment for salvation but instead a response of love for Christ.  You can really understand this if you accept Christ and do it.  It is also as James points out a evidence of true faith and spiritual life. 

Suicide bombers are following a false prophet.  The fact that there will be false prophets is pointed out by Scripture which you don't accept and therefore don't have a basis for understanding.  The sheep know the Master's voice - they won't respond to an alien.

Again you try to separate out Paul from the herd and you and your coyotes try to cut him down.  This springs from another thing you don't understand though I've said it before (who's not listening here?) - that all Scripture is the Spirit of Christ speaking through the writers.  They are not matters of their own interpretation.  I'd give you book chapter and verse but you don't want preaching and have only recently started discussing.

You can characterize me as not doing anything but the concern I have is being justified before God and not you.  He knows what I'm doing.  Just because I don't parade something doesn't mean there aren't things.  You were just using up some extra ammunition you had laying around? 

I'm not coming to you for definitions of Scriptural terms because you don't understand Scripture.  I fear God.  I love God.  I respect God.  I don't doubt God.  I understand you do.  I'm trying to answer your doubts honestly.  I don't have any doubts about Jesus and God and the Scripture.  Those are completely settled, regardless, I know they are all true.  My understanding is imperfect, but I know these are true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I find it funny and telling that you claim I've mischaracterized you and then the rest of your post falls in line with my characterization. Now to your post.

1. We are members of the same ensemble as we are both humans living on Earth. That, however, was not the ensemble I was speaking of. Many Christians would decry your arrogance as not being of God. Are they not true Christians because they disagree with you? Or are you God's only child?

2. Daily cleansing? Do you believe you sin daily?

3. I never fake concern when it comes to medical situations (been too close to death too many times - that could also be why I don't fear it - frequent exposure). If you are telling me you've got it under control then I'll leave it at that.

4. I'm sorry you were faking friendship in order to get in some shots at me. That's also not a good way to bring someone to Jesus. Then again, I don't think you're trying to do more than play "See how much better my life is than yours".

5. see 4.

6. You don't have a plan for after death either. You have a hope that you picked the right God - that's it. Keep being the kind of Christian you're showing me here and if you have the right God, we might be sharing a bench by the fire.

7. If James is correct, why are you doing good things out of a fear of hell and death?

8. If I'm cutting Paul out of the herd, I'm using his writing to do it. Read Romans 4 where he defines sin and the commandments out of existence for you believer types.

9. I'm not asking you to be justified before me. All I'm asking is that you walk the Christian walk according to Christ's teachings instead of what you're doing now.

10. Since I don't understand Scripture your way, I don't understand Scripture? Son, you've got brass ones - I'll give you that.

 

 

 

 

JcGadfly,

Your perspective is the same for your challenges as your perseption of my answers.  While you are entertained like the retired Greeks seeking something new I guess that isn't my purpose, but you're working at your mischaracterizations I'll give you that.  Now for your post.

We are both human beings yes but we don't even agree on what a human being is in relation to this Earth home, that human beings are spirits living in tents which are both fragile and durable - some fancier, some rougher, some incomplete, but all foldable in the end.  One proof of this is the fact that all human beings have some despair.  This despair is related to our spirit need for God Who made us.  We are incomplete without Him.  On this same ensemble subject continuing on if you will, perhaps you have heard the concept that in Christ we are in this world but not of it.  We have died and been born again in Christ.  Jesus was in this world but not of it.  We are now in Christ and thus this is our true state, being in the world but not of it.  The world is defined as this:  approaching life without God.  I can't make you smile on this no matter how hard I try in the accepting sense.  We are communicating from two different worlds.

I'm sorry you continue to fake your understanding of my friendship irony illustration.  I didn't say I faked friendship, I said it was obvious irony; that is, obvious exaggeration.  I guess I could take your floated "concerns" as obvious irony too.  Anyway it's no exaggeration we have trouble with every letter of every word of discussion.  I've gone to Niniveh finally - you are still headed to Tarshish. 

Am I God's only child?  You know I think that question coming from you is an indication of the despair within you.  You feel alone and are projecting it on me.  My friend, (I say this with both irony and prayer to God you will someday accept the truth of Christ knowing at this moment you see it as not the bidding of a friend but the kisses of an enemy), my friend, if you were enjoying the abundant life in Christ shared with the cloud of witnesses, those gone before, those going now, those together with me rejoicing in the riches in Christ - you wouldn't have this lonely despair and project it on me. 

There is a fine line you'll have to admit between a lot of things; for instance, the line between confidence and pride, passion and violence, accomplishment and naval gazing.  There is also a fine line between parading a better way and offering it with good motives.  Yes I have no doubts life in Christ is the abundant life and you refuse that.  I believe my purposes in offering that are pure - in my court of conscience.  You have your court and your lawyer and venue apart from me.

I haven't had much practice at death.  I thought sure I was going to die at one point but it didn't happen.  What I have concerning death are real hopes and promises - plus a portion of my future inheritance.  I have a portion of heaven in my right now - Christ in me, the Holy Spirit in me, God in me.  All that is real.  Christ Who is in me has been in the heart of the earth for three days and nights and risen to Indestructible Life and He and that Life is within me, so yes I have something going for me heading for death - in the blink of an eye my faith will become sight.  I'll be in the physical presence of Christ.  As far as your bench by the fire, who knows, Jesus may visit you with His Salvation and you may become one of His great stories of conversion.  There have been many such stories.  I'm reading now about John Bunyan's conversion.  He might claim to have been more of an infidel than you my friend (I am actually your friend because I'm telling you the truth, the irony is in your not realizing it which I recognize). 

 

Daily cleansing, yes.  Nothing is maintenance free JcGadfly.  Even vinyl siding will get old and brittle.  There is initial cleansing, sins washed away, made whole, brought near to God in Christ, God's law written on the heart, given a new heart.  Then I go through my day and get surprised by the fish chain coming down in the main box and hitting the main feed!!!! and I say D__n!!  And I realize I just condemned the situation to Gehenna and that if the Perfect Lamb of God had done that He wouldn't have been able to be the sacrifice for all sin of all mankind.  So for the love of Christ I am in truth sorry for that and say, "sorry" and I have a promise that the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse me from all sin.  I also am confident I am committing sins I don't know about because there have been things I have come to understand as sin that originally I didn't - such as treating heavenly things as common with "pearly gate jokes", etc.  So I'm sure I'm doing things now I'll learn to correct later.  Daily cleansing yes - needed and available.  

 

Again, since you have trouble understanding the heart thing of purpose in doing things you are in the dark about the great motivation it is to do good things for the glory of Christ.  You don't have faith in me either to bridge that gap in understanding, so I don't know what to do except say believe in Christ and live.  I don't have a sign or miracle for you.  It wouldn't do it anyway.  Jesus healed the blind and skeptics remained skeptics - they just said, "what are we going to do with this guy that so many people are following"?  He had just healed a blind man, so go figure.

 

You don't accept Jesus and you don't understand Paul or what Jesus says through him.  The Scriptures say the demons believe and tremble. 

You wouldn't be the judge of a true Christian any more than those who were in the world that Christ came to and made didn't recognize their maker.  If you come to "know the Truth the Truth will make you free" - from these false impressions of Christ and Christians and the Scriptures. 

You are under the impression that you can reject the Living Word - Jesus - yet you can understand the Written Word of God.  To you this is logical.  To me it's not and that doesn't take brass, just common sense. 

 

 

 

As to your despairing signature; while it's true this world is a wilderness of many mirages; there is the real Water and Manna - Christ.  When you find Christ it's time to quit revving your doubt engines. 

 

 

 

 

As promised, I'm getting back to you.

I'm not going to get into your projection of mischaracterizations except to say "Stop it - it's hypocritical of you. You're better than this".

We do have a different picture of human beings, this is true. I picture humans as free creatures "fearfully and wonderfully made". capable of doing great things. You picture them as little more than drones existing for God's amusement. You believe that they are worth nothing without a servile relationship to God. As for the fragility of the body, I agree. I look at it as an opportunity to do all I can with what I have. You seem to look at it as a thing to loathe, waiting for it to go away so you can go to heaven.

Why is my picture more Biblical than yours?

So, you're mistaking my honest concern for another human as mere irony? I should be ticked off at that but I also should have expected it. Newsflash - "obvious exaggeration" of terms of friendship implies insincerity.

As for your Jonah comparison, do you remember why he went to Nineveh? Yes it was to preach but it was also to watch people die when God's judgment fell upon them. He was genuinely ticked off when the people of Nineveh repented. Is that why you're here preaching poorly? You're hoping people don't accept Christ so you can watch them roast in the hereafter? Me running from God?  No, that would represent the fear I had of him before (even when I was living for him). I turned around to face God and... there was nothing there but a bunch of Christians like you driving me away. For every Christian who walks his talk I run into a dozen like you. The Lord doesn't want "any to perish but all to come to repentance". Why don't you hold that position? Why do you come on here and pontificate, annoying any who might be interested?

Where did you get despair from my asking if you were arrogant enough to believe that you were God's only child? You're the one who seems to sit at odds with the Bible and other Christians (all the while claiming you know you're right in God's sight). I wouldn't have a problem being a child of God if he existed and followers like you didn't. As Gandhi said, "I like your Christ but I don't like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"

So you have a hope that you guessed right about the hereafter based on the death of someone who a book claims didn't die? A God who took a few days off before being God again? How did he died for our sins if he didn't die? He's still alive right? He didn't stay dead so did he really die for my sins? Or do you guys keep killing him over and over so you can wash in his blood? Never mind your next paragraph confirms your barbarity - keep killing him so you can keep washing. There is nothing wrong with praying to keep short accounts but you're using it as an excuse to keep sinning your sin of pride when you come to "witness".

It's hard for me to accept Jesus or Paul when the person trying to gain my acceptance doesn't live their words. My problem is not with them but with you.

As for the Mencken quote in my sig - Believe it's despairing if you will but I have the proof of human civilization on my side.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Wow, this thread is still

Wow, this thread is still going strong. Page 11. I can still see my frustrated posts from over a year ago.

One thing I've observed here is that Fonzie's most prized evidence for her (Are you a 'she?' I can't remember.) personal belief in God is the strong feelings/emotions/convictions she experiences when she prays/read the Bible/goes to church, etc. Obviously, these emotions are not reliable evidence for anything; furthermore, individuals from all religions have the same experiences. However, she refuses to understand this, and she's very adept at wiggling out of our attempts to make her understand by employing various formal and informal fallacies.  

Of course, she doesn't realize what she's doing.....it's difficult. She's so emotionally attached to her beliefs, and she seems like a nice person. I wish there was some way to get through to her. 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:Wow, this

butterbattle wrote:

Wow, this thread is still going strong. Page 11. I can still see my frustrated posts from over a year ago.

One thing I've observed here is that Fonzie's most prized evidence for her (Are you a 'she?' I can't remember.) personal belief in God is the strong feelings/emotions/convictions she experiences when she prays/read the Bible/goes to church, etc. Obviously, these emotions are not reliable evidence for anything; furthermore, individuals from all religions have the same experiences. However, she refuses to understand this, and she's very adept at wiggling out of our attempts to make her understand by employing various formal and informal fallacies.  

Of course, she doesn't realize what she's doing.....it's difficult. She's so emotionally attached to her beliefs, and she seems like a nice person. I wish there was some way to get through to her. 

It's a him, and he's been here before. He made the "What faith you" and "PALACE LIFE" threads (where he earned the trollbadge)

I know this because all those threads and this one feature a christian grandad with the same number of grandkids, the same job (wiring houses), who suffers from bipolar and takes lithium for it, who just happens to talk about the same things in exactly the same way (the salutations, the bible prose, never going outside of his own thread, etc...).

Call me a suspicious bastard, but for two of those to appear on this board, this one three months after the other one got the trollbadge, no, that's too much of a coincidence, I reckon.

I've asked him directly, and he's ignored the question, oh, about ten or twenty times by now ? I lost count. Been asking it over and over again for months.

Since his usual reaction to having the contradictions in his personal theology exposed, is to accuse us of "mischaracterising" his words, I thought asking him about his earlier threads might help him understand that deceiving people isn't a very nice thing to do.

After all, all he's doing here is recycling his old threads, having the same conversations with the same people in some cases, and those threads got closed for a reason.

I'm getting the impression that he doesn't like me very much, cuz I haven't been accused of so many weird things in my life.

Just for asking a simple question.

 


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jcgadfly wrote:As promised,

jcgadfly wrote:

As promised, I'm getting back to you.

I'm not going to get into your projection of mischaracterizations except to say "Stop it - it's hypocritical of you. You're better than this".

We do have a different picture of human beings, this is true. I picture humans as free creatures "fearfully and wonderfully made". capable of doing great things. You picture them as little more than drones existing for God's amusement. You believe that they are worth nothing without a servile relationship to God. As for the fragility of the body, I agree. I look at it as an opportunity to do all I can with what I have. You seem to look at it as a thing to loathe, waiting for it to go away so you can go to heaven.

Why is my picture more Biblical than yours?

So, you're mistaking my honest concern for another human as mere irony? I should be ticked off at that but I also should have expected it. Newsflash - "obvious exaggeration" of terms of friendship implies insincerity.

As for your Jonah comparison, do you remember why he went to Nineveh? Yes it was to preach but it was also to watch people die when God's judgment fell upon them. He was genuinely ticked off when the people of Nineveh repented. Is that why you're here preaching poorly? You're hoping people don't accept Christ so you can watch them roast in the hereafter? Me running from God?  No, that would represent the fear I had of him before (even when I was living for him). I turned around to face God and... there was nothing there but a bunch of Christians like you driving me away. For every Christian who walks his talk I run into a dozen like you. The Lord doesn't want "any to perish but all to come to repentance". Why don't you hold that position? Why do you come on here and pontificate, annoying any who might be interested?

Where did you get despair from my asking if you were arrogant enough to believe that you were God's only child? You're the one who seems to sit at odds with the Bible and other Christians (all the while claiming you know you're right in God's sight). I wouldn't have a problem being a child of God if he existed and followers like you didn't. As Gandhi said, "I like your Christ but I don't like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"

So you have a hope that you guessed right about the hereafter based on the death of someone who a book claims didn't die? A God who took a few days off before being God again? How did he died for our sins if he didn't die? He's still alive right? He didn't stay dead so did he really die for my sins? Or do you guys keep killing him over and over so you can wash in his blood? Never mind your next paragraph confirms your barbarity - keep killing him so you can keep washing. There is nothing wrong with praying to keep short accounts but you're using it as an excuse to keep sinning your sin of pride when you come to "witness".

It's hard for me to accept Jesus or Paul when the person trying to gain my acceptance doesn't live their words. My problem is not with them but with you.

As for the Mencken quote in my sig - Believe it's despairing if you will but I have the proof of human civilization on my side.

 

JcGadfly,

As to why your picture of man is more "Biblical" than mine it relates to your characterization of my view and conception of "Biblical".   

As for your continued mischaracterization of the prophet Jonah, I want to come back to the subject of this thread: how faith worked for Jonah. 

Men can feel like they are in a uniquely despairing position but Jonah can say that in truth.  His unbelief speaks first - unbelief is always ready to blurt out what is later wished unsaid: "I am cast out from Thy presence".  Later his faith kicked in and, "when my soul fainted within me, I remembered the LORD and my prayer came to Thee, into Thy Holy Temple.  Those who pay regard to vain idols forsake their true loyalty.  But I with the voice of thanksgiving will sacrifice to Thee; what I have vowed I will pay.  Deliverance belongs to the LORD!"

This is an illustration of how when in poverty faith in God makes us rich, when in weakness faith in God makes us strong, when dead faith in God makes us alive. 

I am not sitting in judgment of you, I am presenting faith in Jesus which can save any man who is lost.  But the Great Physician can only heal those who are sick.  Those who are well have no need of a physician.  Is it true you have no need for Jesus? 

Yes, my hope is totally in Jesus, and if in any way not in Jesus it is my aim and burning desire to correct so it is.  I have great evidence for my hope in Jesus - and yes He is alive, and He is alive in me.  It would be possible to crucify Christ afresh as you mention - that would be by after being delivered from sin through the blood of Jesus to return to it, like a dog eating its vomit.  I don't aim to ever do that; however it would be a great mistake to think it couldn't happen.  I aim to be on guard against that.  This is war to the death and I don't aim to sheathe my sword until dead. 

As for your quote in your signature - yes it is possible to put one's faith in the collective agreement of the opinion of men, but to me it isn't reasonable or what the Light of Life living in my heart shows me is sound.  This would be building on sand.  It won't stand either the storms of life - unique like Jonah's or shared trials - and certainly won't withstand the final storm of the second death.  You won't be comforted by human civilization at that time and you will see then if not now that I am your friend in saying that - regardless of what civilization tells you.