It works for me!

Fonzie
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It works for me!

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

 


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I believe you

 

    In fact I believe you so much I encourage you to go join you jesus and his daddy in the  happily life ever lasting as soon as possible.  With your glee and adherence why haven't you committed suicide already?

    Peace be with you brother, only god knows that you realy need a piece.  Dilentin by your choice of words:   take your meds and irritate us in the morrow; if you could be so religiously kind.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

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Fonzie wrote:Faith in Jesus

Fonzie wrote:
Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
Hi; I don't care!

Fonzie wrote:
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I still don't care!

Fonzie wrote:
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
Really, I do not care!

Fonzie wrote:
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel?
I don't think you're fooling yourself.

I know you're fooling yourself.

But I don't care.

I do care, however, that you so-called Christians want to make your faith into public policy. Keep your faith to yourselves and you can waste your time praying and reading a 2000 year old piece of very badly written fiction all you like with no interference from me at all.

But try to take away my rights based on your make-believe religious morality and I will stand up for myself. And don't tell me "but, I'm not taking away your rights" because if you stand by and allow other Christians to make war on my right to live by my will, then you are guilty of a sin of omission.

Next time, I suggest you take the time to read a forum before you post in it, because every idiot jackass of a theist that has ever marched in here has asked the exact same questions and gotten the exact same answers. It's not my fault you can't be arsed to do some reading on your own.

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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I think we need to hold an intervention...

Fonzie wrote:

 I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

Is "believe in Jesus" a euphemism for "shoot heroine?"

Translation: "I understand you can't make anybody shoot heroine, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of shooting heroine. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life."

Interesting...

COME TO THE DARK SIDE -- WE HAVE COOKIES


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I have to ask - do you

I have to ask - do you believe by your choice or as a result of the indoctrination tha happend through that large percentage of your life?

If you're happy with the Jesus, great. Just let me be happy without him. OK?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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Fonzie wrote: Faith in

Fonzie wrote:

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just....

 

 

   Hey, welcome back Mr. Koresh !  I thought you died when your compound burned to the ground.  I guess I was wrong. 

                             

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Fonzie wrote: Faith in

Fonzie wrote:

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

Good for you, I however have never needed your god or your jesus, makes no sense to me to waste time praying and worshipping some non existing deity. As for the mystery there is simply what we do not know.....yet.

Fonzie wrote:

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.

I cannot imagine my life wasted with worshipping some non existant being or praying or being excited about imaginary beings, I just can't see the appeal, then again it could be because I view life for what it is and I am happy with that.

Fonzie wrote:
 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

Which is the problem with this WHOLE thing, jesus came to earth, supposedly via a virgin birth (which the term used in hebrew is mean't as young woman not literally a virgin) and didn't leave any evidence except the second hand stories of other people. God created this universe and everything in it, but left no evidence at all, find it hard that this all powerful being leaves no evidence of it's existance except through blind faith.

Fonzie wrote:

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

No I think you truely do believe in it, even though you have ZERO concrete evidence that this being exists outside of the bible. Personally I do not care if you are happy or happier than more, or more enlightened or less enlightened than me, I will continue to live my life as I see it, as a one shot, not as a test to pass or fail. This is it, this is the only life you will have, how you wish to live it is up to you. The only thing I can offer is reality.

I hate the quote function, I can never get it right.

[mod edit: fixed quote function. Smiling]


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Fonzie wrote:Faith in Jesus

Fonzie wrote:

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

If you say you're happy, I have no basis to question that; but it has little to do with the veracity of your beliefs. One of the fundamental differences in our thinking appears to be your satisfaction, if not comfort, in there being mysteries. As though there were this kernel of something that would be destroyed by scrutiny. I think it's because if faith were to be articulated, we would find that at its heart it is ultimately an assertion which we can't satisfactorily justify. And when we frame it this way, as we frame almost everything else in our lives, it feels threatening to our happiness and well-being. Is this good or bad for us? I don't know. My way of thinking is that the more mysteries I unravel the more I can justify what I believe in, because I can explain things. What I'm left with is a much more robust philosophy that I don't have to guard under the auspices of "mystery."


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Fonzie wrote: I can't get

Fonzie wrote:

 

I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

 

Can't get enough? Perhaps you'd be interested in this, from Adrian Barnett...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fed up with seeing and hearing the secular world around you? Distracted by attractive young people in temptingly tight clothes? Despairing at the sinful nature of co-workers? Horrified at the anti-christian teaching of evolution and critical thinking?

Worry no more! The Bible Harness is now available.

This high quality harness has been hand-crafted from soft yet strong leather (also available in simulated-leather for vegetarians), and is easily adjustable to accommodate a wide range of Bible weights and sizes, as well as head sizes. Suitable for holding all interpretations and rewrites of the infallible ancient scriptures, from the New King James version to the Book Of Mormon.

This elegant and unobtrusive construction of straps and heavy buckles allows you to tightly clamp your Bible over your face, completely obscuring the outside world and filling your entire field of view with your favourite passages from the Good Book. The optional earplugs enable you to also eradicate the worldly sounds that would otherwise distract you from your careful contemplation of the Holy texts. You can wear it to work, at the shops, around the house or even while you sleep, Be the first person in your Church or classroom to have one.

The Bible Harness has many uses, including:
 

  • Introducing recalcitrant children to the Word of the Lord.
  • Avoiding any form of meaningful debate with evolutionists.
  • Never having to think for yourself anymore.
  • Information filter. Prevents user seeing or hearing anything non-Biblical.
  • Discretely indicates to others that you are a fellow Christian, much like the Jesus-Fish sticker on your car.
  • Preventing your halitosis from offending others (if applicable).
  • Ignoring any so-called facts or evidence that may contradict the obvious truth of your beliefs.
  • Ideal for Internet debates in alt.atheism and talk.origins.
  • Protection from harmful UV light.
  • And many more!

No longer must you endure non-Bible-related visual stimuli.

The Bible Harness is already a bestseller with Televangelists, Young-Earth Creationists, small-town preachers and many others in the God-fearing, Bible-believing community. Get yours today, and spend your every waking moment reading the loving Words of our Creator.

As you can see, the Bible Harness is practically invisible when in use. The strong leather fastenings hold your face tightly to the Inspired Words, which gently cradle your nose and uplift your spirit.

 

 

Special Offer
If you purchase one for yourself and your spouse, we'll send you a third, child-size Harness for free! When worn to school, this will prevent your child from being indoctrinated with sinful, secular notions such as scientific literacy, false interpretations of the Bible, and grammar. Don't waste time - call today!

But wait! There's more!

For an extra $10, you can upgrade to a Deluxe Bible Harness, featuring embossed crosses on the straps, gold-plated buckles and a transparent pocket on the front into which you can insert a selection of cards for others to read, including such inspirational sayings as:

"Can't talk - reading bible."

"Bible harness user. Please speak slowly."

"I don't need to think, I've got a Bible strapped to me face!"
 

 Don't delay! Send for your Bible Harness today!

 


Warnings and legal notices:

 

 

  1. Heavy machinery and vehicles should not be operated whilst wearing Bible Harness. If in doubt, pray for guidance.
  2. If strapped on too tightly, Bible Harness may restrict blood flow to brain. If you experience nausea, dizziness, hallucinations, revelations or angelic visitations, loosen straps appropriately.
  3. In some States, it is unfortunately still illegal to strap Bibles to the heads of unconsenting wives and children. If this is the case in your State, simply invoke the Religious Freedom Amendment and inform the police that they are burdening your expression of religion and you will be speaking to your lawyer immediately.
  4. Children, pregnant mothers and those with heart conditions should not be strapped into any section of the Old Testament, and certain sections of the New Testament - see guide enclosed with your Harness.
  5. The Bible Harness should not be used for strapping any other object to any other part of the body. Serious injury and sinning may result, especially if it feels good.

 


Jormungander
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Why is Fonzie's avatar a

Why is Fonzie's avatar a picture of a woman fellatiating a pot of some kind?

This is obscene. I really wish that I was the pot though.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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Hi Fonzie, guess what, okay,

Hi Fonzie, guess what, okay, I'll tell ya .... I am jesus .... yup, me, no shit .... and so are YOU. Me and jesus and god are one in the same, inseparatable .... just as me and buddha too, ETC  ..... as ALL is ONE, as me and you, and the dirt, as all is star dust.

   YOU ARE GOD

 

 


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Vrrrroooooom.

Looks like The Fonz was just another drive-by drooling.

Ayyyy!


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Fonzie wrote:So do you guys

Fonzie wrote:

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?

What WE think isn't as important as what you think.

I gather that you believe because it makes you feel good in some ways. Can you tell me any ways in which believing in jesus makes you feel bad? Is it always 100% good?

Quote:
What is the purpose of this site?

You're exemplifying the purpose of this site. We're here to ask and answer questions too. What were any preconceptions of yours when you were directed here?

Quote:
Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel?  

Hmmm. I am my gospel, I suppose. I fancy myself to be much more reliable than a book as far as human interactions go.

My questions are: What do you want? Why do you feel that we can 'offer' you something that you could not get by your own hand or mind?

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Fonzie wrote: Faith in

Fonzie wrote:

 

Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

Don't take this the wrong way, but everything here is about you. Very self centred argument, when god is supposed to promote selflessness. What about those around you? Has your faith ever hurt someone else? If it has, then you have no justification for keeping it.

 

Fonzie wrote:
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life. 

My experience with religion tells me to run from it or attack it(depending on the circumstances), and offer that advice to anyone who comes near it.

Fonzie wrote:
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody.  I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed. 

It's good you think that, but in fact you should know it. Only god could prove god. And only a better recorded history could prove or disprove a jesus. What we have is enough to suggest the possibility, yet demean the possibility with gaps and theory.

Fonzie wrote:

So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

 

A great many people who are theists are happy, I'm sure. As long as their happiness does not require the suffering of others, I have no problem with you staying religious. Unfortunately, that is not always the case.

What could  be better than religion? Reality. Finding your own path has many rewards over a path forced upon or merely given to you. Figuring out things for yourself, instead of assuming that ancient stories have life figured out. Acknowledging that there is only one god in every persons life, and that god is themselves. Noone can make you do anything except yourself. There is always a choice. That makes you the ultimate power of yourself. You are your own god.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Fonzie wrote:Faith in Jesus

Fonzie wrote:
Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting.  I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery.  There is mystery everywhere though, right?  I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus.  I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.

How good for you!

Quote:
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that.  But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.  I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus.  I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.

I'm truly sorry to hear that.

Quote:
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what?  What is the purpose of this site?   Do you have something better to offer?  If so, what is your gospel? 

For what it's worth, we don't have a gospel - what "we" offer is freedom from it! Freedom of thought, freedom to think for yourself without having to resort to the opinions of dead, ancient shepherds. Oh, and guess what? I'm happy too, and wouldn't want to switch shoes with you even if my life so depended on it.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy."


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Glad to hear it...

Fonzie wrote:

 IT WORKS FOR ME 

 

Glad to hear that the love juice has you happy.  Are you counting the days to the rapture . . . till god comes down and brings you up to heaven to live forever? Ahhhh, the more love juice there is running through the veins, the more bliss in your life. Enjoy it.  Allah loves you.

god -- I tried you on for size.... you were a little long in the crotch, loose in the waist, short in the length and you made my butt look extra flat. I had to take you back for an exchange.


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JillSwift wrote:Looks like

JillSwift wrote:

Looks like The Fonz was just another drive-by drooling.

Ayyyy!

 

And looks like he ain't returnin'....

 

Stop.

Don't.

Come back.

[ \the unenthusiastic Gene Wilder Willy Wonka voice ]

 


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Wonko wrote:JillSwift

Wonko wrote:

JillSwift wrote:

Looks like The Fonz was just another drive-by drooling.

Ayyyy!

 

And looks like he ain't returnin'....

 

Stop.

Don't.

Come back.

[ \the unenthusiastic Gene Wilder Willy Wonka voice ]

 

And yet we sit here wondering why we're in the minority.

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If you really didn't care

you wouldn't be frequenting this forum. But I guess you mean that you only care about yourself and this theist's views are of no worth to you.

I find it alarming and certainly tiresome that the atheists on this forum that rant and rave about theism and its infringements on liberties, etc. are equally intolerant and overbearing as the religious zealots they deride. The discussion hardly ever makes it to the stage of the pursuit of truth, of free and fair discussion, but more quickly descends into a tirade of contempt and abuse.

As for checking out the forum before posting, Fonzie should look to himself first. This is the 'Kill 'em with Kindess' forum, is it not? Yet from the first, he spews nothing but derision, contempt and indifference, to put it mildly. If you want to lambaste theists, this forum isn't the place, so take it somewhere else, please. With an apology before you go, if you have any decency. At least be adult enough to admit that your tiresome tirades gain you no brownie points in anyone's books, and only betray the limited capacity of your character and integrity.

But Fonzie is not alone. I find the comments here are in the main of such flavour, which is somewhat depressing. If this is the fundamentalist atheist understanding of kindness, then they really need to take a long, hard look at themselves. Or perhaps, the kindness was only meant to be interpreted as it pertains to oneself? One comes away with the impression that rights and liberties are only valuable when they are one's own. And so we come full circle....


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DadaMungo wrote:you wouldn't

DadaMungo wrote:

you wouldn't be frequenting this forum. But I guess you mean that you only care about yourself and this theist's views are of no worth to you.

Eh?

DadaMungo wrote:

I find it alarming and certainly tiresome that the atheists on this forum that rant and rave about theism and its infringements on liberties, etc. are equally intolerant and overbearing as the religious zealots they deride. The discussion hardly ever makes it to the stage of the pursuit of truth, of free and fair discussion, but more quickly descends into a tirade of contempt and abuse.

Sometimes the only way to slay a dragon is to mimic him. As for discussion achieving a stage of true conversation, obviously you haven't looked around very much. If you had, you would find the scientific, psychological, and mythical information within this forum to be so vast that printing it out would give you a book twice the size of the bible. Any bible.

 

DadaMungo wrote:
As for checking out the forum before posting, Fonzie should look to himself first. This is the 'Kill 'em with Kindess' forum, is it not?

No, it is not. The "Kill 'em with Kindness" forum has a very distracting red panel reminding forumites of their location.  

DadaMungo wrote:
Yet from the first, he spews nothing but derision, contempt and indifference, to put it mildly. If you want to lambaste theists, this forum isn't the place, so take it somewhere else, please. With an apology before you go, if you have any decency. At least be adult enough to admit that your tiresome tirades gain you no brownie points in anyone's books, and only betray the limited capacity of your character and integrity.

I wonder if you will apologize for your mistakes as you suggest others apologize for fictional mistakes.

DadaMungo wrote:
But Fonzie is not alone. I find the comments here are in the main of such flavour, which is somewhat depressing. If this is the fundamentalist atheist understanding of kindness, then they really need to take a long, hard look at themselves. Or perhaps, the kindness was only meant to be interpreted as it pertains to oneself? One comes away with the impression that rights and liberties are only valuable when they are one's own. And so we come full circle....

Have you ever heard of the concept of extending respect only to those who also extend respect? Respect goes both ways. It is earned, not given.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:DadaMungo

Vastet wrote:

DadaMungo wrote:

you wouldn't be frequenting this forum. But I guess you mean that you only care about yourself and this theist's views are of no worth to you.

Eh?

DadaMungo wrote:

I find it alarming and certainly tiresome that the atheists on this forum that rant and rave about theism and its infringements on liberties, etc. are equally intolerant and overbearing as the religious zealots they deride. The discussion hardly ever makes it to the stage of the pursuit of truth, of free and fair discussion, but more quickly descends into a tirade of contempt and abuse.

Sometimes the only way to slay a dragon is to mimic him. As for discussion achieving a stage of true conversation, obviously you haven't looked around very much. If you had, you would find the scientific, psychological, and mythical information within this forum to be so vast that printing it out would give you a book twice the size of the bible. Any bible.

 

DadaMungo wrote:
As for checking out the forum before posting, Fonzie should look to himself first. This is the 'Kill 'em with Kindess' forum, is it not?

No, it is not. The "Kill 'em with Kindness" forum has a very distracting red panel reminding forumites of their location.  

DadaMungo wrote:
Yet from the first, he spews nothing but derision, contempt and indifference, to put it mildly. If you want to lambaste theists, this forum isn't the place, so take it somewhere else, please. With an apology before you go, if you have any decency. At least be adult enough to admit that your tiresome tirades gain you no brownie points in anyone's books, and only betray the limited capacity of your character and integrity.

I wonder if you will apologize for your mistakes as you suggest others apologize for fictional mistakes.

DadaMungo wrote:
But Fonzie is not alone. I find the comments here are in the main of such flavour, which is somewhat depressing. If this is the fundamentalist atheist understanding of kindness, then they really need to take a long, hard look at themselves. Or perhaps, the kindness was only meant to be interpreted as it pertains to oneself? One comes away with the impression that rights and liberties are only valuable when they are one's own. And so we come full circle....

Have you ever heard of the concept of extending respect only to those who also extend respect? Respect goes both ways. It is earned, not given.

Vastet, be careful - I don't get the red KEWK banner on Firefox 3. I don't know what you're running but the breadcrumbs at the top say it is the KEWK forum

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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DadaMungo wrote:you wouldn't

DadaMungo wrote:
you wouldn't be frequenting this forum. But I guess you mean that you only care about yourself and this theist's views are of no worth to you.
Pardon me but: Bullshit. I really don't care what a theist believes. It's none of my business. What I do care about, as I said, is when that theology or imaginary morality gets stuffed down my gullet by legislation. If that's a problem for you, bummer for you.

DadaMungo wrote:
I find it alarming and certainly tiresome that the atheists on this forum that rant and rave about theism and its infringements on liberties, etc. are equally intolerant and overbearing as the religious zealots they deride. The discussion hardly ever makes it to the stage of the pursuit of truth, of free and fair discussion, but more quickly descends into a tirade of contempt and abuse.
When was the last time an atheist tried to get a law passed preventing a theist from holding office? Never? Well, theists have laws that prevent atheists from holding public office.

So your assertion that considering theism to be contemptible and voicing that opinion without shame is in any way equally intolerant is utter claptrap.

DadaMungo wrote:
As for checking out the forum before posting, Fonzie should look to himself first. This is the 'Kill 'em with Kindness' forum, is it not? Yet from the first, he spews nothing but derision, contempt and indifference, to put it mildly. If you want to lambaste theists, this forum isn't the place, so take it somewhere else, please. With an apology before you go, if you have any decency. At least be adult enough to admit that your tiresome tirades gain you no brownie points in anyone's books, and only betray the limited capacity of your character and integrity.
Having trouble navigating? This is the root forum, not the "Kill 'em With Kindness" forum.

DadaMungo wrote:
But Fonzie is not alone. I find the comments here are in the main of such flavour, which is somewhat depressing. If this is the fundamentalist atheist understanding of kindness, then they really need to take a long, hard look at themselves. Or perhaps, the kindness was only meant to be interpreted as it pertains to oneself? One comes away with the impression that rights and liberties are only valuable when they are one's own. And so we come full circle....
You are making these assertions based on a false assumption, dearie.

What makes me shake my head at this little tirade of yours is how completely you missed my point. I have no wish or compulsion to "cure" individuals of their religious delusions. I don't consider it my place or right to do so. It is my right and place as well as duty, however, to defend people's rights. And the religious right movement to impinge those rights is why I'm here, and why my congressmen know me by name, and why my state legislators sigh heavily when they see me in the hallway. I have much reason to care, not only for myself but for every citizen of my country. That includes the theists, who by and large have no idea the trouble they're brewing for themselves when they allow these freedoms to be impinged.

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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jcgadfly wrote:Vastet, be

jcgadfly wrote:
Vastet, be careful - I don't get the red KEWK banner on Firefox 3. I don't know what you're running but the breadcrumbs at the top say it is the KEWK forum
Eh? My breadcrumbs say:

"Home"

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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jcgadfly wrote:Vastet

jcgadfly wrote:

Vastet wrote:

DadaMungo wrote:

you wouldn't be frequenting this forum. But I guess you mean that you only care about yourself and this theist's views are of no worth to you.

Eh?

DadaMungo wrote:

I find it alarming and certainly tiresome that the atheists on this forum that rant and rave about theism and its infringements on liberties, etc. are equally intolerant and overbearing as the religious zealots they deride. The discussion hardly ever makes it to the stage of the pursuit of truth, of free and fair discussion, but more quickly descends into a tirade of contempt and abuse.

Sometimes the only way to slay a dragon is to mimic him. As for discussion achieving a stage of true conversation, obviously you haven't looked around very much. If you had, you would find the scientific, psychological, and mythical information within this forum to be so vast that printing it out would give you a book twice the size of the bible. Any bible.

 

DadaMungo wrote:
As for checking out the forum before posting, Fonzie should look to himself first. This is the 'Kill 'em with Kindess' forum, is it not?

No, it is not. The "Kill 'em with Kindness" forum has a very distracting red panel reminding forumites of their location.  

DadaMungo wrote:
Yet from the first, he spews nothing but derision, contempt and indifference, to put it mildly. If you want to lambaste theists, this forum isn't the place, so take it somewhere else, please. With an apology before you go, if you have any decency. At least be adult enough to admit that your tiresome tirades gain you no brownie points in anyone's books, and only betray the limited capacity of your character and integrity.

I wonder if you will apologize for your mistakes as you suggest others apologize for fictional mistakes.

DadaMungo wrote:
But Fonzie is not alone. I find the comments here are in the main of such flavour, which is somewhat depressing. If this is the fundamentalist atheist understanding of kindness, then they really need to take a long, hard look at themselves. Or perhaps, the kindness was only meant to be interpreted as it pertains to oneself? One comes away with the impression that rights and liberties are only valuable when they are one's own. And so we come full circle....

Have you ever heard of the concept of extending respect only to those who also extend respect? Respect goes both ways. It is earned, not given.

Vastet, be careful - I don't get the red KEWK banner on Firefox 3. I don't know what you're running but the breadcrumbs at the top say it is the KEWK forum

 

There seems to be a problem with coding or something then. The first time I entered the topic, it said it was located in "home", as mentioned by JillSwift. Currently, it says it's located in "kill 'em with kindness", but the barrier is missing anyway. I'm using IE.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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To Jill and

To Jill and Vastet,

That's...odd. All I can say.

I try to be careful in general unless I'm provoked by mind-boggling idiocy .

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Well, to be fair

I was only commenting on Jillswift's response to the original comment, which to me seemed wholly unwarranted. BTW, this is the KEWK forum - I don't bother with the others, simply because I find the general attitude on this forum troubling enough.

Your comment about slaying the dragon sounds like another way of saying, "Well, he started it!" Surely you can do better than that! And I hope you don't honestly believe that! 'A soft answer turneth away wrath' What with four boys, I know that the fighting fire with fire approach simply doesn't work. And what was so fiery about the original post anyway?

Yes, I will freely apologise when I make an error. Have I made one here? I think not. But why go on the defensive? I was not attacking, merely stating what I thought to be fair. Why did you perceive the threat? I wasn't even talking to you.

And finally, as for extending respect only to those who extend respect - surely you can see the flawed logic there! Who would show the first respect, if all were waiting for the other to do so first?! Respect does go both ways, but dare you be the first to show it?

This will sound patronising, so for that I do apologise, truly, but your words are brimming with anger - in a day or two I'll have forgotten your post, but you will probably still be angry. I am your brother, not your enemy. Let it go, and make more space for happiness in your life.

PS: Oops! Another error! I used Fonzie's name in may original post. It should have been JillSwift. Sorry for any confusion!


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Enough hand-wringing.

Enough hand-wringing.

EDIT: Hi Dada. Would it be abusive of me to mention that you've taken several paragraphs to frame little more than your feigned persecution?


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Of course not.

Quote:
Would it be abusive of me to mention that you've taken several paragraphs to frame little more than your feigned persecution?

I'm not trying to persecute anyone here. I think atheism is ultimately unfounded, but I don't hate atheists for it. I do not fear you, so have no need to attack you. As a Christian, I strongly believe that contention is fruitless and should be avoided. Sure, I get riled up sometimes, but not here and not now.

I guess the very reason I commented to begin with was that I wanted to speak out against the uncalled for hostility that Fonzie's original post received, when I could see nothing but Fonzie's expression of satisfaction in his beliefs. Why he/she chose to do so here is a little puzzling to me, but it was still harmless enough.

It is a pity that both sides of the God debate are very touchy. This extends to even the greater thinkers on the subject - we're all human I suppose. But I think we should avoid a defensive stance as the default.

I still think my original observations were impartial and justified, even if a little hard to swallow (as witness the responses it evoked). It was just food for thought. If I waxed prosaic a little too much for your liking, then I can't really do much about that. I think it reasonable to discuss the terms of the discussion on this forum, when after all it is the KEWK forum, and it's been created for a reason. Surely, reflecting on one's emotions and their motives is more rewarding and meaningful that much of what gets discussed here.


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Xains are bunk

Xains are bunk


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Feign.I also suggest getting

Quote:

I'm not trying to persecute anyone here.

Feign.

I also suggest getting acquainted with the abbreviation "tl;dr."

 


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Xains suck , dogs they are

Xains suck , dogs they are

Elvis Presley, Hound Dog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We8P_Ww27hY

 


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DadaMungo wrote:I'm not

DadaMungo wrote:

I'm not trying to persecute anyone here.

Reread that which you have responded to with this.

Quote:
I think atheism is ultimately unfounded, but I don't hate atheists for it. I do not fear you, so have no need to attack you.

A constant reminder to all atheists has been hate the religion not the religious. Much as the christian mantra of 'hate the sin, not the sinner'.

Quote:
As a Christian, I strongly believe that contention is fruitless and should be avoided. Sure, I get riled up sometimes, but not here and not now.

I guess the very reason I commented to begin with was that I wanted to speak out against the uncalled for hostility that Fonzie's original post received, when I could see nothing but Fonzie's expression of satisfaction in his beliefs. Why he/she chose to do so here is a little puzzling to me, but it was still harmless enough.

With many people, moods can be effected by their environment and this is no different despite being the KEWK forum.

The members of this site even up to and including you have experienced revulsion as an emotion when dealing with people expressing a different ideological viewpoint.

Quote:
It is a pity that both sides of the God debate are very touchy. This extends to even the greater thinkers on the subject - we're all human I suppose. But I think we should avoid a defensive stance as the default.

When you're in the minority one day, will you be defensive? I prefer to think of it as responsive.

I also prefer the honest response from people instead of forced civility. An ideal most of us share (oddly enough) is the difference in the individual. Actually, I celebrate the vast array of individuals we are lucky to interact with here.

If every response were to be rehearsed for new visitors then, well, we'd be no better than a religion or cult. If you look back at past posts, you'll find that we've had to debate that illogical assertion more than a few times.

I anticipate having to explain the difference to many others before I'm done.

Quote:
I still think my original observations were impartial and justified, even if a little hard to swallow (as witness the responses it evoked). It was just food for thought.

Impartial? No. Justified? More than likely.

It happens in the converse elsewhere on the web to such a degree that it would be ridiculous for us to think that someone could simply shrug it off before coming here.

After all, being the sum of our experiences means we DO deal in respect and disrespect constantly. Expecting us to treat each theist as an individual regardless of the label would require you to do the same for atheists. Do you? Or can I presume by your inclusion of all atheists into the 'I do not hate' category that you have many preconceptions about the people whom espouse atheism?

Quote:
If I waxed prosaic a little too much for your liking, then I can't really do much about that. I think it reasonable to discuss the terms of the discussion on this forum, when after all it is the KEWK forum, and it's been created for a reason. Surely, reflecting on one's emotions and their motives is more rewarding and meaningful that much of what gets discussed here.

Sure. It's been created to accomodate sensitive individuls. I won't argue with that. However, messaging exists for a reason as well.

If you see something like this again then I would encourage you to message me and we could proceed from there.

Unfortunately, you chose to try to make your point in open forums and thus have picked up the flag of persecution against an army of individuals like JillSwift who have experienced their ideology being trampled by yours using the government.

Regardless of how it was presented, JillSwift's argument holds substance that you have chosen to disregard in favor of the style.

Would you concur that is a reasonable analysis?

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Well: This is the KEWK forum

Well: This is the KEWK forum after all. I apologise for showing my fangs in a forum that's supposed to be fang free.

I need to make clear that this apology in no way affirms the assertions that I have a "limited capacity" of my "character and integrity", nor that I "want to lambaste theists".

 

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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JillSwift wrote:Well: This

JillSwift wrote:

Well: This is the KEWK forum after all. I apologise for showing my fangs in a forum that's supposed to be fang free.

I need to make clear that this apology in no way affirms the assertions that I have a "limited capacity" of my "character and integrity", nor that I "want to lambaste theists".

 

Personally, I just want us to look at the number of posts next to the username and proceed accordingly.

For instance, if someone has 100 posts and they throw out something that is deserving of derision then we would be remiss in our duties if we didn't ridicule it.

The only thing I try to curb in KEWK is my use of profanity.

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Well, to play by my own rules

Quote:
I need to make clear that this apology in no way affirms the assertions that I have a "limited capacity" of my "character and integrity", nor that I "want to lambaste theists".

I think it's clear that I had assumed JillSwift knew what the forum was and disregarded the rules. So I really am the ass this time. Apologies for that.

I guess there's a cultural element here too. As a Brit, my distinction of what is appropriate in communication differs significantly from the norm on this site. I just see that all hostility should be shunned, and certainly not expressed, simply because otherwise we lose track of what's really important in these discussions and get bogged down in slanging matches which simply leave hurt and drive the divide wider. One does not have to lose one's power of expression by remaining courteous and polite, though it does indeed require more skill. In fact, I see the opposite, i.e. by resorting to crude vocabulary and base gesture simply betrays "room for improvement".

For the record, I wish to state that I truly empathise with you who are atheists who are being "attacked" by fundamental Christians in governmental power. This is something that is anathema to me, and to many other religionists, no doubt. I sincerely mean that. In fact, my anger stirs towards those who would seek to impose their moral or ethical views on others. I have no experience of what is clearly a concerning matter for you, but I can empathise.

I just mention this so you remember that not all Christians are fundamentalists, and not all of us unbelievers. In fact, I am comepletely baffled that so-called Christians could be driven by such dark emotions. I mean, we read the same Bible - I guess I mine must have a had a few pages ripped out!


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OMG TL;DR

OMG TL;DR


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Just to pick up on a couple of points and answer a few questions

Quote:
It happens in the converse elsewhere on the web to such a degree that it would be ridiculous for us to think that someone could simply shrug it off before coming here.

I'm inclined to disagree. Imagine you've been playing rugby/football/whatever in a very muddy field. When you come home, would you not bother to strip yourself of your filthy clothes before getting too far into the house? Of course, not, because you respect the cleanliness of the house. The same applies here to this forum. If one is angry or pent up, then a different forum is a better place to express it.

Quote:
Or can I presume by your inclusion of all atheists into the 'I do not ' category that you have many preconceptions about the people whom espouse atheism?

Of course you may, but I don't think you really need to.

Quote:
Unfortunately, you chose to try to make your point in open forums and thus have picked up the flag of persecution against an army of individuals like JillSwift who have experienced their ideology being trampled by yours using the government.

Three points on this one:

  1. I wasn't aware of the messaging feature. If that's the policy for these forums, I'll use it future, so thanks for pointing it out.
  2. I deny that I have picked up any flag of persecution. I have no such intent, and ask that that be remembered by all who exchange posts with me. I have no hostile agenda here.
  3. Now the pot is calling the kettle black: you do not know my ideology, so I'll ask you not to label me with those fundamental right-wingers I believe you're referring to. Christians come in as many flavours as atheists, I would imagine.

Quote:
JillSwift's argument holds substance that you have chosen to disregard in favor of the style.

Absolutely. That was the intent of my original post. If you would like to here my thoughts about his message and not the style, then let me re-iterate that I stand with you on the matter on the imposition of religious rules on "non-subscribers". That is despotism, and I reject it.

American media (which we get plenty of over here in Europe), is replete with Americans praising their country about how wonderful it is, how free it is, and how it's simply the best plot of real estate on the planet. The notion of democracy (American-style) is waved around as vigorously as the Star and Stripes. If you have a democratic system which works (nominally), then the government is (in theory, at least) representative of the people. The problem is that the minority will always luck out. If the majority of Americans are Bible-toting, gay/atheist/Jew/whatever-bashing zealots then that's the kind of government you're going to get. I'll admit that I don't follow politics at all, and American politics even less (yes, I know that's illogical), so I don't know the details of what aggrieves you. I'd be willing to hear more, but perhaps we should all try and keep the politics out of this forum, even though many of our beefs are political and not philosophical or ideological.

I fully agree that the fundamentalists that are portrayed by the same media are simply a menace to all, and we'd be a lot better of if they were persuaded to a little less, but how rampant are they over there? If you'll indulge me, I'd like to offer the nugget of consolation that if there is a heaven, there aren't too many of them there at least.


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DadaMungo wrote:Quote:It

DadaMungo wrote:

Quote:
It happens in the converse elsewhere on the web to such a degree that it would be ridiculous for us to think that someone could simply shrug it off before coming here.

I'm inclined to disagree. Imagine you've been playing rugby/football/whatever in a very muddy field. When you come home, would you not bother to strip yourself of your filthy clothes before getting too far into the house? Of course, not, because you respect the cleanliness of the house. The same applies here to this forum. If one is angry or pent up, then a different forum is a better place to express it.

The internet is the entire rugby field.

Quote:
Quote:
Or can I presume by your inclusion of all atheists into the 'I do not ' category that you have many preconceptions about the people whom espouse atheism?

Of course you may, but I don't think you really need to.

I felt that was important to point out before we continued.

Quote:
Quote:
Unfortunately, you chose to try to make your point in open forums and thus have picked up the flag of persecution against an army of individuals like JillSwift who have experienced their ideology being trampled by yours using the government.

Three points on this one:

  1. I wasn't aware of the messaging feature. If that's the policy for these forums, I'll use it future, so thanks for pointing it out.
  2. I deny that I have picked up any flag of persecution. I have no such intent, and ask that that be remembered by all who exchange posts with me. I have no hostile agenda here.
  3. Now the pot is calling the kettle black: you do not know my ideology, so I'll ask you not to label me with those fundamental right-wingers I believe you're referring to. Christians come in as many flavours as atheists, I would imagine.

1. No problem.

2. Good. I'm glad. However, if I see it that way then I'll of course need to ask. Many others will ask as well if it is perceived that way by them.

3. christians have the common pieces of the ideology in common. Behavioral issues aside, I feel we focus on that moreso than stereotyping all christians. I wanted to make sure that you can practice what you preach with that last sentence here.

 

Quote:
Quote:
JillSwift's argument holds substance that you have chosen to disregard in favor of the style.

Absolutely. That was the intent of my original post. If you would like to here my thoughts about his message and not the style, then let me re-iterate that I stand with you on the matter on the imposition of religious rules on "non-subscribers". That is despotism, and I reject it.

Excellent.

My suggestion for this would be to ignore other discussions and responses in order to focus more energy on your own.

As evidenced by this thread, I spent much more time in my response to Fonzie than I did with the other posters excepting you.

Would you agree that could be more productive?

Quote:
American media (which we get plenty of over here in Europe), is replete with Americans praising their country about how wonderful it is, how free it is, and how it's simply the best plot of real estate on the planet. The notion of democracy (American-style) is waved around as vigorously as the Star and Stripes. If you have a democratic system which works (nominally), then the government is (in theory, at least) representative of the people. The problem is that the minority will always luck out. If the majority of Americans are Bible-toting, gay/atheist/Jew/whatever-bashing zealots then that's the kind of government you're going to get. I'll admit that I don't follow politics at all, and American politics even less (yes, I know that's illogical), so I don't know the details of what aggrieves you. I'd be willing to hear more, but perhaps we should all try and keep the politics out of this forum, even though many of our beefs are political and not philosophical or ideological.

I wish it were so easy. Unfortunately as I mentioned earlier, when christianity is invoked as a reason for a law because it was the christian thing to do.

Well, there you have all three things (politics, philosophy, ideology) all rolled into one. That is the reason why they are common themes in responses.

Sure. We talk about our country as if it is the best one. Does this upset you because you think yours is better?

I am a fan of one or two of your citizens' works. To hear them speak, we have it as awful as we say we do. (Pat Condell and to a lesser degree Richard Dawkins)

Quote:
I fully agree that the fundamentalists that are portrayed by the same media are simply a menace to all, and we'd be a lot better of if they were persuaded to a little less, but how rampant are they over there? If you'll indulge me, I'd like to offer the nugget of consolation that if there is a heaven, there aren't too many of them there at least.

I last heard that 44% of americans believe the 'rapture' will come within the next 50 years.

Would you say that could be a problem?

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Personally, and getting back

Personally, and getting back to the original poster's remarks, and obeying the KEWK rules, I think that Jesus had some great ideas. He was a morallist and pacifist, and if everyone lived their lives according to his mantra the world would undoubtably be a more pleasant place.

However, Why do theists (and in this context, christians) have to bundle the whole thing up with God of Abraham style religion and treat the dogma and surrounding stories with the same gravitas as the moral kernal? Why is it so hard to see that the new testament is a 2000 year old fable about morality? Sure, live your life and love Jesus, or Gandhi, or that famous Atheist: Mother Theresa, for their moral viewpoint, but drop the surrounding stuff that is so out of date. There's no need to keep it up. Your beliefs should be borne out of morality in its purest essence, and that boils down to one simple statement:

If it harms no-one, do what you want.

Fonzy, your personal belief in Jesus is not harming, per se, but the surrounding fluff that obscures the essence of his life most certainly is. in 2000 years humanity has made up so much rubbish regarding this frankly little-known man that today it seems this fluff is more worshipped than Jesus's most important quote - love thy neighbour, which has essentially the same meaning as my quote above. (which I believe is paraphrased from pagan philosophies).

With this in mind, I'd like to tug on the leashes of my fellow atheists by requesting that we do not denigrate or belittle those that choose to express their beliefs, but instead try to demonstrate that it is not necessary to hold these beliefs in order to be a moral person. religion is a crutch for many, and our job should be to teach people to walk without it, rather than trying to kick it from under them.

 

Thanks,

 

Ian

 


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DadaMungo wrote:Your comment

DadaMungo wrote:

Your comment about slaying the dragon sounds like another way of saying, "Well, he started it!" Surely you can do better than that!

Why should I? If someone punches me in the face, I punch them back. There was a time I didn't. This was a horrible time spent surrounded by bullies and assholes. Now I'm happy, and a lot of people have shut up. It works, it works well, I use it.  Keeping your mouth shut simply invites more insults and bullying. So you are asking me to be a pussy bitch who gets slapped every day and smiles. Not gonna happen.

DadaMungo wrote:

And I hope you don't honestly believe that!

I don't believe it, I KNOW it.

DadaMungo wrote:
'A soft answer turneth away wrath' What with four boys, I know that the fighting fire with fire approach simply doesn't work. And what was so fiery about the original post anyway?

Fighting fire with fire DOES work. It works exceptionally well. It works so well that you are here suggesting that it doesn't work, even though you've proved that it does work. I grant you that it doesn't work all the time, but noone hears someone whispering to themselves in a corner.

DadaMungo wrote:
And finally, as for extending respect only to those who extend respect - surely you can see the flawed logic there! Who would show the first respect, if all were waiting for the other to do so first?! Respect does go both ways, but dare you be the first to show it?

There is no flaw in my logic. If you do not respect me, I will not respect you. I will not extend respect to people who do not deserve it. I will not extend more than a courtesy respect to people I don't know(while I evaluate their worth of respect, which will in time replace the temporary courtesy). And finally, after my experience living all over the second largest country in the world, and one of the most if not the most diverse, I have found that most people don't deserve respect.

DadaMungo wrote:
This will sound patronising, so for that I do apologise, truly, but your words are brimming with anger -

Passion, not anger.

DadaMungo wrote:
in a day or two I'll have forgotten your post, but you will probably still be angry.

Passionate, not angry. And I'll have forgotten about yours too, so no harm done.

DadaMungo wrote:
I am your brother, not your enemy. Let it go, and make more space for happiness in your life.

Only an enemy tells me what to think. A brother might make suggestions, but enemies demand. You are demanding, you are an enemy(though for clarities sake, I'm not actually saying I view you as a personal enemy here. I have none of those. You are merely an enemy to my independance, prosperity, and happiness.).

Editted to remove unclipped quotes

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Jeffrick wrote:  In fact I

Jeffrick wrote:

  In fact I believe you so much I encourage you to go join you jesus and his daddy in the  happily life ever lasting as soon as possible.  With your glee and adherence why haven't you committed suicide already?

Like I said I'm enjoying life here with the Spirit of the Living Christ within me so there's no need to hurry (or fear) death.


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JillSwift wrote:I don't

JillSwift wrote:

I don't think you're fooling yourself.

I know you're fooling yourself.

But I don't care.

I do care, however, that you so-called Christians want to make your faith into public policy. Keep your faith to yourselves and you can waste your time praying and reading a 2000 year old piece of very badly written fiction all you like with no interference from me at all.

But try to take away my rights based on your make-believe religious morality and I will stand up for myself. And don't tell me "but, I'm not taking away your rights" because if you stand by and allow other Christians to make war on my right to live by my will, then you are guilty of a sin of omission.

Could I rationally say I "know" anything about you?  Is it logical for you to say you "know" anything about me?

Jillswift, one reason they crucified Jesus was that He wasn't political.

And can I logically blame you for what other atheists do?

 

 

 


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lieutenant24 wrote:Is

lieutenant24 wrote:

Is "believe in Jesus" a euphemism for "shoot heroine?"

You could also substitute "mocking Jesus" for "shoot heroine"

lieutenant24 wrote:
  COME TO THE DARK SIDE - WE HAVE COOKIES

It appears your "cookies" automatically reject any input concerning Jesus so I believe you do.  I think also a cult protects its membership list like this, arming them with canned reactions to any ideas that would challenge their perspective.


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Fonzie wrote:JillSwift

Fonzie wrote:

JillSwift wrote:

I don't think you're fooling yourself.

I know you're fooling yourself.

But I don't care.

I do care, however, that you so-called Christians want to make your faith into public policy. Keep your faith to yourselves and you can waste your time praying and reading a 2000 year old piece of very badly written fiction all you like with no interference from me at all.

But try to take away my rights based on your make-believe religious morality and I will stand up for myself. And don't tell me "but, I'm not taking away your rights" because if you stand by and allow other Christians to make war on my right to live by my will, then you are guilty of a sin of omission.

Could I rationally say I "know" anything about you?  Is it logical for you to say you "know" anything about me?

Jillswift, one reason they crucified Jesus was that He wasn't political.

And can I logically blame you for what other atheists do?

Good old Christian (epistemological) nihilism. You haven't reinforced your beliefs, only vandalized the idea of reinforcing any beliefs. But we know that there's something calling itself "Jillswift" that is giving at least the illusion of interacting with you on this forum. You know because it's right in front of you. Whatever it is you don't know about Jillswift, you know even less about your own beliefs.


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jcgadfly wrote:I have to ask

jcgadfly wrote:

I have to ask - do you believe by your choice or as a result of the indoctrination tha happend through that large percentage of your life?

I was attracted to Jesus by friends who experienced Him - now it is my own faith, choice and experience. 

jcgadfly wrote:

If you're happy with the Jesus, great. Just let me be happy without him. OK?

Ok, I thought there was an interest in discussing different faiths on this forum.  I asked about yours.  I seemed to get a lot of reactions rather than reasonable answers.


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

 Hey, welcome back Mr. Koresh !  I thought you died when your compound burned to the ground.  I guess I was wrong. 

                             

I think you are wrong.  There will be an endless supply of "Mr Koresh's"; however, I don't think I'm God - I'm a son of God in Christ.


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latincanuck wrote:I hate the

latincanuck wrote:

I hate the quote function, I can never get it right.

[mod edit: fixed quote function. Smiling]

This hate for the quote function might be something to consider in relation to the way you approach new people and ideas.  Just because you don't understand isn't a reason to hate them.  I'm sure with a few pointers you could see the quote function and possibly other things differently.


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Fonzie wrote: It appears

Fonzie wrote:

 

It appears your "cookies" automatically reject any input concerning Jesus so I believe you do.  I think also a cult protects its membership list like this, arming them with canned reactions to any ideas that would challenge their perspective.

  My friend, your perspective was my perspective for over twenty years of my life.  You perspective presents no challenge to me at all.  My view of Christianity comes from years of immersing myself in that "perspective" as a follower of Christ.

  Many of those who are presently atheists were formerly devoted Christians.  Our faith has now departed but we were challenged by your Jesus perspective loooong before you arrived.

http://theatheistconservative.com/

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


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Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly

Fonzie wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

I have to ask - do you believe by your choice or as a result of the indoctrination tha happend through that large percentage of your life?

I was attracted to Jesus by friends who experienced Him - now it is my own faith, choice and experience. 

jcgadfly wrote:

If you're happy with the Jesus, great. Just let me be happy without him. OK?

Ok, I thought there was an interest in discussing different faiths on this forum.  I asked about yours.  I seemed to get a lot of reactions rather than reasonable answers.

It's really kind of hard to have a discussion about other faiths when you are the only one in this thread (that I know of) subscribing to one.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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magilum wrote:One of the

magilum wrote:

One of the fundamental differences in our thinking appears to be your satisfaction, if not comfort, in there being mysteries. As though there were this kernel of something that would be destroyed by scrutiny. I think it's because if faith were to be articulated, we would find that at its heart it is ultimately an assertion which we can't satisfactorily justify. And when we frame it this way, as we frame almost everything else in our lives, it feels threatening to our happiness and well-being. Is this good or bad for us? I don't know. My way of thinking is that the more mysteries I unravel the more I can justify what I believe in, because I can explain things. What I'm left with is a much more robust philosophy that I don't have to guard under the auspices of "mystery."

I appreciate your reasonable statement.  There are mysteries in life for all of us.  I also am trying to unravel every mystery I can.  Here is why I am not concerned about living with the type of mystery I mentioned:  If a Man died for me I accept the fact that He loves me and is my friend.  If He does and says things that are a mystery to me I can live with that while I try to understand why.

 


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nikimoto wrote:  Don't

nikimoto wrote:


 

 Don't delay! Send for your Bible Harness today!

 

 


Warnings and legal notices:

 

 There's good humor in that and it illustrates a misunderstanding of scripture that is easy to fall into.  But you also illustrate something I would love - to have the whole Bible inhaled into my heart and mind and spirit at once, and held.  I once envied the capacity to memorize large amounts of Scripture.  I don't have that capacity.