The New Atheist Crusaders and their quest for the Unholy Grail

caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
The New Atheist Crusaders and their quest for the Unholy Grail

Hey all.  It's been a while since I've been on. I appologise, I've been busy. 

The title of this forum is the title of a book I just finished reading.  It's a catchy title, so I figured it'd be a good way to grab someone's attention on here.  The book is written by Becky Garrison. 

If her name doesn't sound familiar, that's fine, it shouldn't.  So why am I wasting your time telling you about this book?  Well, I'm glad you asked.  This is a book written by a True Christian.  HUH?  For all of you who have discussed with me in the past, you understand what I'm talking about and for those of you who haven't you can research my blogs.  Caposkia is my name. 

Anyway, It's written from the viewpoint of how a true Christian feels about of course the atheists in the world today, but more importantly for you, how she feels about Christians in the world. 

This is for all of you arguing with me about how Christians have to be black and white.  How you have to follow a religion and there's nothing outside of religion etc.  She touches on all of this.  I truly think you'll enjoy reading this book and I would like to hear from those of you who have read it if anyone.  If not, I"ll wait till someone finishes it.  It's not a very long book.

When I first came onto this site, I wanted to discuss directly with those who were involved in the infamous television debate that RRS was involved in about the existence of God with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron.  They didn't have time and the other non-believers I came across were too opinionated to involve themselves in a conversation that made any progress.  Instead I got into other debates which for the most part were a lot of fun, but I digress. 

Becky mentions this debate as well in her book at the end.  This is for all of you on here I've talked to who would not believe me or had other personal issues with the fact that my opinion didn't flow with their idea of a Christian.  I will breifly say that I hold her viewpoint when she says that if she was at that debate, she would have "crawled out of that church in shame. "

Simply put, we both agree that both sides put forth deplorable excuses for their side and did not defend their side succesfully.  I know I know, many of you will disagree and say that RRS did disprove the existance of God in that debate, but enough with the opinions, I'm saying the other side did just as good of a job proving God.  This debate is a poor excuse to not follow Christ and this book talks about those types of Christians.

This book should clarify many misunderstandings of how True Christians are and I hope bring light to a new understanding of our following. 

It is written differently than most books, but is an informational peice and uses a lot of researched information.  It does focus on the "New Atheists" and is not a book preaching to the masses.  As said, it is from the point of  view of a True Christian.

enjoy, let me know your thoughts.  I would also request, please be respectful in your responses.  I'm here to have mature discussions with people. 


nigelTheBold
atheist
nigelTheBold's picture
Posts: 1868
Joined: 2008-01-25
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:Ok, I haven't

caposkia wrote:

Ok, I haven't seen enough evidence to conclude the assumed ancestors of humans to be true.  The transition doesn't seem to be there.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification, Cap.

Do you consider this true for all organisms (there's not enough evidence to link them to the fossils deemed to be their ancestors by paleontologists)? Or mostly just humans?

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


daedalus
daedalus's picture
Posts: 260
Joined: 2007-05-22
User is offlineOffline
Quote:I have no idea, why is

Quote:


I have no idea, why is this relevant?

 

You don't?  I am asking you who would be considered a True Xian that I would know.

 

Did you or did you not claim to know what a True Xian was?  Come on, man, you are being disingenuous.  You are on the ropes and its obvious.

 

As far as your science v. religion (didn't you say you couldn't stand religion?), maybe you should learn science first and then show us how you know ANYTHING about the "spiritual" world.

Anyhow, I must agree: you are a True Xian. You are truly disingenuous and intentionally obtuse.

 

"All I did was recommend a book!  Poor me!  I'm another Xian being oppressed just like Jesus!  Waaaaahhhhh!"

PLeeze!  You added commentary about who is a True Xian, and commented on the quality of argument in a debate.  You made specific claims and now you are being pwned. Bitch slapped. You are being skooled but you keep thinking you have it all figured out because you follow a silly mythology.

God damn it, I hate people like you and everyone else who claims to be Xian and then can't even reason their way out of a wet bible, or even know the basic history of their religion or favorite book.  I bet Cap doesn't even know one Greek or Hebrew word - and yet he believes God-Almighty Himself came down to Earth and wrote a book just for Cap and his salvation!  But he couldn't be bothered to learn a god-damned thing about it.  He's just shooting off his mouth like a majority of self-righteous, ignorant religious idiots. Making up their own religion and then declaring it "True".

 

Cap, we know you by what you are writing.  You are an idiot and under 20 years old - it's obvious.

 

Cap, grow up, wake up and act smarter, even if you aren't.

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13545
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:Brian37

caposkia wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

If humans can live life comfortably without your god, then you are admitting to us that your god, or any god for that matter, is not needed to live life. THANK YOU for that admission. I hope it sinks in for your sake.

uh... right.  Unless my God is real, which in that case He created you and you just wouldn't exist without Him.  It's like saying you were born without a mother or father to make it happen.  e nWever claimed that life is miserable without God, but you'd be surprised at what happens in life with God.

Brian37 wrote:

 You obviously don't like it when science says that human flesh cannot survive rigor mortis. Otherwise you would have abandon this clap trap claim that Jesus rose from the dead.

 

dust to dust

Brian37 wrote:

The sooner you face that you got sold a myth, the sooner you can free your mind from the shackles others have put your brain in.

remember that.

Now if you'd like to make progress with a conversation, lets get a topic and a forum going.

Your god is not real, it is a made up myth you bought into, just like Muslims buy the myth of Allah, just like the ancient Egyptians falsely believed that the sun was a thinking entity. You think somehow you magically escaped the human flaw of buying fiction as fact when the rest of human history has not.

Quote:
We never claimed that life is miserable without God, but you'd be surprised at what happens in life with God.

Bullcrap, the central figure of your book of myth is an authoritarian who doesn't like dissent and those who refuse to follow will be tortured for eternity. Fortunatly for me it is a book of fiction, unfortunately for you you buy this book of myth and then dodge the nasty parts because you don't want to see the book for what it is.

BTW you are right, it never ceases to suprise me the arrogance, nastyness and cruelty that humanity has inflicted on outsiders in the name of their  diety(incert label here).

You have bought into ancient tribalism based on myth. I only hope someday you are brave enough to see that and live life in reality.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


ragnarok
High Level Donor
ragnarok's picture
Posts: 26
Joined: 2006-07-05
User is offlineOffline
Caposkia's Gambit Unveiled

It's nice to see that the ad hominem attack is still standard issue for Christians these days.  Predictability is one of the hallmarks of religious expression, I suppose.  Unfortunately for you, your emotional outburst was premature.  I used to believe in a god, but I was not raised to believe in the Christian idea of god, which is the general assumption made about atheists by Christians like you.  It is is also unfortunate that even your idea of atheism centers around Christianity, as if we endorsed every other religion and philosophy other than yours, and that by leaving you out you are somehow hurt by this.  I'm glad that the dismissive tone of my post ruffled your feathers and revealed the true nature hidden beneath your seemingly-magnanimous veneer. 

You also whined:

     "BTW, all I suggested was a book.  All I've done on here is answered some questions, and asked some of my own to better answer questions that were asked still unanswered mind you... and you blame me for the nonsense that's been going on???"

      Another interesting tactic, but one that will not pass muster.  You never just suggested the book, but you asked for others to share their thoughts.  You have attempted to obfuscate long enough.  There isn't one book written in the entire history of written books that can prove the existence of a god or gods, and none that can sway the rational among us into believing otherwise.  So what would be the point of discussing this 'new' book by Garrrison?  One of the more obvious behaviors for those who feel guilty about believing in a god and participating in a religion is the contrived way they attempt to defend their beliefs, in this case using another person's book as a prop, when all the while they just want to hear the reasons for not believing again.  They want to make sure they heard it right the first time, because it makes so much sense they can't believe that it has crushed their previously-held false beliefs so quickly and so thoroughly.  It also explains the ad hominem attacks that absolutely must be perpetrated no matter what, because that's what happens when children or the adult immature realize that what they have been told is right, but do not want to admit it.  Let it go Caposkia.  Eschew your willful ignorance. We will gladly welcome you into the fold when you find the strength to leave the lies behind.  

Someone once opined that "All sportswriters are hacks."  I tend to view religious apologists in the same light; in the end, all of their intellectualism belies the physical reality.  Comfort does not mean you don't have to think.  Comfort means freedom to think and live rationally because there is no pain and suffering from the false dichotomies of religious indoctrination and oppression.

 

 

 

 

 

I have little poignant or anecdotal to share in this space, but I'm glad I wrote something that made someone like you waste their time reading it. HAVE SOME.


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
Quote:I haven't seen enough

Quote:
I haven't seen enough evidence to accept inter-special evolution

So, in your opinion, there is not:

A) Enough evidence to support the notion that humans are an evolutionary branch of primates

B) To use one of the most well-documented and complete records as an example, enough evidence to support the notion that elephants are an evolutionary branch of equidae (horses)

 

...Is that correct?

So, like, if we showed you this evidence in this forum, would you be willing to change your mind? Or are we just beating our heads against a brick wall?

 

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
Okay, AGAIN, fuck all you

Okay, AGAIN, fuck all you idol worshipers, I am god, you are god, so FUCK YOU idol worshipers, all of you. My way or the highway to hell, you fucking loons, all you religious retarded fucks. All religion is the highway to hell .... Laughing at you idol worshipers,

AC/DC - Highway To Hell (with Bon Scott)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDpznl8eIs

    What ever , FUCK YOU , all you idol worshipers , YOU SUCK, YOU LIE. Fuck you.

 

 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
nigelTheBold wrote:Ah.

nigelTheBold wrote:

Ah. Thanks for the clarification, Cap.

Do you consider this true for all organisms (there's not enough evidence to link them to the fossils deemed to be their ancestors by paleontologists)? Or mostly just humans?

Sorry, I've clarified that on other forums, I don't remember who read them or not. 

I can't account for all organisms because I haven't studied all organisms, however, many of which I've seen do not evolve into a completely new species in our categorization.  At least the ones I've seen so far.  They may evolve into another named species in that class, e.g. the tiger is a distant relative of the Lion or vise versa.  They're both however still Cats.

 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
daedalus wrote:As far as

daedalus wrote:

As far as your science v. religion (didn't you say you couldn't stand religion?), maybe you should learn science first and then show us how you know ANYTHING about the "spiritual" world.

why should i learn something I already know about?  I just don't bring it up because it's a stalemate conversation with most people on here.  See science VS. religion.  Btw, it's just a title.

daedalus wrote:

"All I did was recommend a book!  Poor me!  I'm another Xian being oppressed just like Jesus!  Waaaaahhhhh!"

PLeeze!  You added commentary about who is a True Xian, and commented on the quality of argument in a debate.  You made specific claims and now you are being pwned. Bitch slapped. You are being skooled but you keep thinking you have it all figured out because you follow a silly mythology.

are we throwing a hissy fit?  I have yet to see how I've been pwned.

I just wasn't as familiar with the term.  I'm assuming you mean true follower of Christ or God?  You forget I guess that I was not taught by a church or denomination.  Therefore, terms in reference to Christians sometimes get by me.  

daedalus wrote:
 

 

God damn it, I hate people like you and everyone else who claims to be Xian and then can't even reason their way out of a wet bible, or even know the basic history of their religion or favorite book.  I bet Cap doesn't even know one Greek or Hebrew word - and yet he believes God-Almighty Himself came down to Earth and wrote a book just for Cap and his salvation!  But he couldn't be bothered to learn a god-damned thing about it.  He's just shooting off his mouth like a majority of self-righteous, ignorant religious idiots. Making up their own religion and then declaring it "True".

What do you want to know?  Judging by everything you've said above, it's obvious to me you haven't followed this forum at all and therefore are ignorant of even why you're here, let alone what you're hating me about. 

What exactly did you want me to "reason my way out of"???

daedalus wrote:

Cap, we know you by what you are writing.  You are an idiot and under 20 years old - it's obvious.

yea, wrong.  There's a reason why I haven't gone far with many questions and topics.  One is because I already know the response I might get, therefore, I'm trying to find a better way of leveling with the people asking so as they can understand my belief and following. (Not necessarily accept it like many people assume from that response)  Do you want to be one of the few that gives me a strait answer?

 

daedalus wrote:

Cap, grow up, wake up and act smarter, even if you aren't.

Reread your post, then ask yourself who seemed more mature.


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
Your god is not real, it is



Your god is not real, it is a made up myth you bought into, just like Muslims buy the myth of Allah, just like the ancient Egyptians falsely believed that the sun was a thinking entity. You think somehow you magically escaped the human flaw of buying fiction as fact when the rest of human history has not.

Great! finally, someone has a credible source that has disproved the spiritual world.  Please share so we can make progress in our conversations!

Brian37 wrote:

Bullcrap, the central figure of your book of myth is an authoritarian who doesn't like dissent and those who refuse to follow will be tortured for eternity. Fortunatly for me it is a book of fiction, unfortunately for you you buy this book of myth and then dodge the nasty parts because you don't want to see the book for what it is.

Or I read it thoroughly and see what it's actually saying.  I have thoroughly questioned everything I didn't know and still question what I don't know.  I have asked conflicting experts their views and have come to my own conclusions through means of research and credible claims.

Brian37 wrote:

BTW you are right, it never ceases to suprise me the arrogance, nastyness and cruelty that humanity has inflicted on outsiders in the name of their  diety(incert label here).

it's why I hate religion. 

Brian37 wrote:

You have bought into ancient tribalism based on myth. I only hope someday you are brave enough to see that and live life in reality.

I have never seen life more real than now.  Again, this whole post was complete opinion with no basis for conclusion.  I can say all the same about your "belief" due to what i understand to be true, but that's not why I'm here.  I'm not here to make enemies or separate myself from you. 

I don't think I'm better than you or smarter than you.  I just believe I understand differently than you and I'm more than willing to talk with people who have conflicting beliefs.  This way I can assure what I know is true. 

I still believe to this day because conversations on here and likewise in other places have only assured my understanding.  Mainly because of lack of credible information to the contrary, but also because of personality or reaction.

 


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
You know what I love about

You know what I love about this thread?  I jumped in just long enough to explain the fundamental necessity of science, logic, and empiricism, and did so in thorough fashion.  Curiously, I'm the only poster whose contribution has been completely avoided by the OP.  Funny, that...

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
ragnarok wrote:It's nice to

ragnarok wrote:

It's nice to see that the ad hominem attack is still standard issue for Christians these days.  Predictability is one of the hallmarks of religious expression, I suppose.  Unfortunately for you, your emotional outburst was premature.  I used to believe in a god, but I was not raised to believe in the Christian idea of god, which is the general assumption made about atheists by Christians like you.  It is is also unfortunate that even your idea of atheism centers around Christianity, as if we endorsed every other religion and philosophy other than yours, and that by leaving you out you are somehow hurt by this.  I'm glad that the dismissive tone of my post ruffled your feathers and revealed the true nature hidden beneath your seemingly-magnanimous veneer. 

HUH????? Ok, Let me level.. First, I'm sorry if I said or came across as one who assumed you being against just Christians.  If you follow the topics of this forum you'll notice that I've been talking generally of a spiritual world and not of YHWH. 

I am sorry if I said that or came across that way.  That was not my intention. 

As far as ruffling my feathers.  In my head my response was just informative, not argumentative or accusing.  Again, I'm sorry if that's how you percieved my response. 

ragnarok wrote:

You also whined. 

Actually, I said it with a shrug

ragnarok wrote:

 

      Another interesting tactic, but one that will not pass muster.  You never just suggested the book, but you asked for others to share their thoughts.  You have attempted to obfuscate long enough.  There isn't one book written in the entire history of written books that can prove the existence of a god or gods, and none that can sway the rational among us into believing otherwise.  So what would be the point of discussing this 'new' book by Garrrison?  One of the more obvious behaviors for those who feel guilty about believing in a god and participating in a religion is the contrived way they attempt to defend their beliefs, in this case using another person's book as a prop, when all the while they just want to hear the reasons for not believing again.  They want to make sure they heard it right the first time, because it makes so much sense they can't believe that it has crushed their previously-held false beliefs so quickly and so thoroughly.  It also explains the ad hominem attacks that absolutely must be perpetrated no matter what, because that's what happens when children or the adult immature realize that what they have been told is right, but do not want to admit it.  Let it go Caposkia.  Eschew your willful ignorance. We will gladly welcome you into the fold when you find the strength to leave the lies behind.  

...uhuh... Haven't followed much on here have you.

ragnarok wrote:

Someone once opined that "All sportswriters are hacks."  I tend to view religious apologists in the same light; in the end, all of their intellectualism belies the physical reality.  Comfort does not mean you don't have to think.  Comfort means freedom to think and live rationally because there is no pain and suffering from the false dichotomies of religious indoctrination and oppression.

 

Ah, ok... so you hold the stereotypical understanding I am not a part of.   Start reading some stuff on here and other blogs I have, then we'll talk.

Let me know when you want to be serious

 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
"I still believe to this day

"I still believe to this day because conversations on here and likewise in other places have only assured my understanding.  Mainly because of lack of credible information to the contrary, but also because of personality or reaction"

 

Is it really that hard to do when you come in here saying, "No matter what I see (even if the proof is nigh to incontrovertible), I'm going to hang on to what I believe"?

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
Kevin R Brown wrote:So,

Kevin R Brown wrote:

So, like, if we showed you this evidence in this forum, would you be willing to change your mind? Or are we just beating our heads against a brick wall?

 

Ah, here we go.  Finally. 

Mind you my understanding of evolution isn't the only reason why I believe there's a God.  It'd be like me saying to you, if I showed you something that was true written in the Bible, then would you believe.  I would think not and I wouldn't expect you too, but it would be a start.

I'm willing to look at whatever you want to show me.  Anything to challenge my understanding.  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:Okay,

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Okay, AGAIN, fuck all you idol worshipers, I am god, you are god, so FUCK YOU idol worshipers, all of you. My way or the highway to hell, you fucking loons, all you religious retarded fucks. All religion is the highway to hell .... Laughing at you idol worshipers,

AC/DC - Highway To Hell (with Bon Scott)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDpznl8eIs

    What ever , FUCK YOU , all you idol worshipers , YOU SUCK, YOU LIE. Fuck you.

 

...and which religion was it that hurt you and how?  You can PM me with the answer if you want.  It is a serious question, nothing sarcastic. 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote: Is it

jcgadfly wrote:
 

Is it really that hard to do when you come in here saying, "No matter what I see (even if the proof is nigh to incontrovertible), I'm going to hang on to what I believe"?

 

I don't remember saying that.  To be honest, the only ones I've seen on here saying that are the non-believers.


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
Hambydammit wrote:You know

Hambydammit wrote:

You know what I love about this thread?  I jumped in just long enough to explain the fundamental necessity of science, logic, and empiricism, and did so in thorough fashion.  Curiously, I'm the only poster whose contribution has been completely avoided by the OP.  Funny, that...

I didn't know I had a due date on my homework assignment prof. 

What you wrote was a lot, pretty redundant, and I'll admit, I haven't been able to read the links yet, but I see you can't wait, so I'll give my general understanding and conclusion and you can tell me how far off I am from your intentions.

It sounds to me like your conclusion is that scientific method is necessary.  There's a reason why I've been singling out "Physical Sciences".  I never said a logical progression to a conclusion needed to be thrown out.  Physical sciences cannot be used to study something that is not physical.  Period.  It should speak for itself

It seems that your conclusion of me is that I lack the emperical evidence to come to the conclusion that I have come to in my life.  However, I have redundantly requested people to present me a method of which they will accept and that effectively supports the study of the spiritual or non-material world. 

I'm not sure if your post or links touch on this, but for something to be "scientifically" and "emperically" concluded, there has to be X number of outcomes that end up with the same conclusion.  I have mentioned that there are 1000's of people in the United States and Millions world wide that have the same understanding I do.  I'd say that's a pretty significant emperical conclusion on my part...

oh, but wait, what of the other religions.  Well, maybe my understanding's not correct, however, I have belief in why mine is over others that I'm aware of as well, but one step at a time.

I guess I could generalize the conclusion by saying that over 90% of people in the world accept that there is a spiritual or non-material world.  That is the basic issue we're trying to takle apparently on here right?  '

Other means of my conclusion through the method you extensivly present to me are:

Personal experience,

science,

history,

geography,

other observed and personal. 

Not one of those sources alone would have helped me come to the conclusion to believe, but all of them combined. 

I hope I wasn't too far off from your intentions, but as I said, I hadn't actually had the time to check out all of it yet. 


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:jcgadfly

caposkia wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:
 

Is it really that hard to do when you come in here saying, "No matter what I see (even if the proof is nigh to incontrovertible), I'm going to hang on to what I believe"?

 

I don't remember saying that.  To be honest, the only ones I've seen on here saying that are the non-believers.

1. Which non-believers would those be?

2. I can only guess at your internal dialogue before you come to this site.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
Quote:It sounds to me like

Quote:
It sounds to me like your conclusion is that scientific method is necessary.

No.  I'm demonstrating that the scientific method is nothing more and nothing less than the only way to learn anything.  There are simply no alternatives.

Quote:
Physical sciences cannot be used to study something that is not physical.

Had you been reading instead of pontificating, you'd realize that you've just ruled out the possibility of your own claims.

Quote:
It seems that your conclusion of me is that I lack the emperical evidence to come to the conclusion that I have come to in my life.

Not at all.  My conclusion is that you lack the methodology necessary to reach the correct conclusion based on your empirical evidence.

Quote:
However, I have redundantly requested people to present me a method of which they will accept and that effectively supports the study of the spiritual or non-material world.

I addressed that in my post, and the links I provided gave substantially more detail.  Would you like to try to read and learn, or are you just interested in telling us how correct you are, without even knowing the other side of the argument?

Quote:
I'm not sure if your post or links touch on this, but for something to be "scientifically" and "emperically" concluded, there has to be X number of outcomes that end up with the same conclusion.

No.  For something to be scientifically concluded, there has to be enough evidence to reach the conclusion.  Inductive reasoning, repeated testing, elimination of all other possibilities, and parsimony are all factors in determining the truth and validity of a conclusion.  Have you ever actually done any science?  (That's not a rhetorical question.)

Quote:
I have mentioned that there are 1000's of people in the United States and Millions world wide that have the same understanding I do.  I'd say that's a pretty significant emperical conclusion on my part...

The irony is that you and the millions of people in the U.S. and billions of people worldwide think that the popularity of an idea has anything at all to do with it's validity or truth.  If you understood the fundamentally unavoidable nature of the acquisition of knowledge, you would realize your mistake.

It's certainly not for a lack of me trying.  Out of curiosity, how long has it taken you to write your posts in this thread?  A couple of hours?  Plenty of time to read all of the links I gave you.  Curiously, you seem much more intent on opining without knowledge of the subject matter.

Quote:
I guess I could generalize the conclusion by saying that over 90% of people in the world accept that there is a spiritual or non-material world.  That is the basic issue we're trying to takle apparently on here right?

Try putting this into an argument:

P1: Ninety Percent (sic!) of the world believes that X exists.

P2: Therefore, ????

See?  It's not an argument.  Let's try this:

P1: Ninety percent believe X.

P2: When ninety percent believe in something, it is always right.

C1: Therefore, X.

That's nice, except that it's completely wrong.  A couple hundred years ago, ninety percent of the population of the U.S. believed that blacks were inferior to whites by nature.  Science has proved them wrong.  Should we talk about the belief that the world is flat?  Or, how about something a little closer to home.  Here's a list of gods that lots of people have believed in:

Abassi Africa Creator god of the Efik people in Nigeria.


 

Abeona Roman Goddess who protects children when they leave the parents' home.

 


 

Abgal Mesopotamian Seven wise-men and the attending deities of the god Enki.

 


 

Abuk Africa According to Dinka mythology, the first woman. She is the patron of women and gardens, and her emblem is a small snake.

 


 

Abundantia Roman Goddess of abundance and good fortune. She carries a cornucopia from which she distributes grain and money.

 


 

Ac Yanto Mayan God of White Men.

 


 

Acan Mayan God of Wine.

 


 

Acat Mayan God of tattooers.

 


 

Achelois Greek Moon goddess, known as she who drives away pain. Sacrifices to her were ordered by the Dodonian Oracle.

 


 

Achelous Greek God of rivers. Often assumed the shape of a bull, a horn of which was fashioned into the cornucopia. He is often seen as a bull with the torso of a man and a beard, or as an old, grey man with horns.

 


 

Acolmiztli Aztec God of the underworld.

 


 

Acolnahuacatl Aztec God of the underworld.

 


 

Adamanthea Greek The nymph who nursed the baby Zeus and hid him from his father, Cronus.

 


 

Adeona Roman Goddess who guides children back home after leaving the parents house.

 


 

Adimurti Hindu An avatar of Vishnu.

 


 

Adityas Hindu Twelve sun gods who represent the twelve months of the year. They protect against various diseases and belong to the Devas. They are: Ansa, Aryman, Bhaga, Daksha, Dhatri, Indra, Mitra, Ravi, Savitri, Surya, Varuna, and Yama.

 


 

Adonis Greek Greek youth who was loved by Aphrodite and killed by a wild boar. He was killed by a wild boar. One of many variants on the dying god myth, see Attis.

 


 

Adrammelech Mesopotamian Babylonian god (possibly of the sun) to whom babies were burned in sacrifice.

 


 

Adrasteia Greek Goddess of divine retribution or punishment for wrongs. Roman equivalent: Nemesis. Adroa Africa God of the Lugbara people. Adroa has two aspects: one good and one evil. Considered to be the creator of Heaven and Earth, and will appear to those about to die. Adroa is represented as a tall, white man with only half a body - one eye, one arm, one leg, one ear.

 


 

Adroanzi Africa The children of Lugbara god Adroa. They dwell near large trees, rocks and streams. The Adroanzi are fond of following people at night. If the person does not look back, they will be safe. If the person does look back, the Adroanzi will kill them.

 


 

Aegea Greek Goddess of, and daughter of, the Sun. When the the Titans attacked the gods of Olympus, Gaia placed her in a cave to hide her shining beauty.

 


 

Aengus Celtic God of love and harper for the Tuatha De Danann.

 


 

Aeolus Greek Custodian of the winds. When directed by the gods, he loosed the captured winds as breezes, gales, or other forces decreed by the gods.

 


 

Aequitas Roman God of honest dealing and fair transactions.

 


 

Aesir Norse Principal race of gods in Norse mythology. They included Odin, Thor, Baldur among others.

 


 

Aether Greek God of the pure air which the Gods breathe, as opposed to the Aer breathed by mortals. One of the fundamental deities of the cosmos; also called the soul from which all life emanates.

 


 

Aethon Greek God of famine in early Greece.

 


 

Aetna Greek Goddess of Mt. Etna, a volcano in Sicily.

 


 

Africus Roman God of the southwest wind.

 


 

Agastya Hindu Protector and companion of the god Rama.

 


 

Agé Africa Dahomey god of the wilderness and the animals which dwell within it. Often worshipped by hunters.

 


 

Aghora Hindu See Shiva.

 


 

Aglaea Greek Youngest of the three Graces. Her name means "the brilliant, splendor, shining one".

 


 

Agni Hindu Vedic god of the divine fire, both of real fire (in the hearth) and the fire that consumes the soul and the food in the belly. He is the spark of life, and so a part of him is in every living thing. He is red, with two faces, seven firey tongues and golden teeth, seven arms, three legs and seven rays of light that emanate from his body.

 


 

Agoué Vodou Loa of the sea and patron of fishermen and sailors. His symbol is the drawing of a boat. Sacrifices to him are loaded onto small rafts and set adrift at sea. If the raft sinks, the sacrifice has been accepted.

 


 

Agrotora Greek Patron goddess of hunters, considered a face of Artemis.

 


 

Agwe Africa The mother of the sea. Affectionate and nurturing to humans who honor her.

 


 

Ah Bolom Tzacab Mayan God of agriculture and the lord of the rain and thunder. Portrayed with a leaf in his nose. Also known as 'God K'.

 


 

Ah Cancum Mayan God of hunting.

 


 

Ah Chun Caan Mayan Teaching god of the city of Merida.

 


 

Ah Chuy Kak Mayan War god.

 


 

Ah Ciliz Mayan God of solar eclipses.

 


 

Ah Cun Can Mayan A war god known as the Serpent Charmer.

 


 

Ah Cuxtal Mayan God of birth.

 


 

Ah Hulneb Mayan War god.

 


 

Ah Kin Mayan Sun god and the controller of drought and disease.

 


 

Ah Kumix Uinicob Mayan Attendant water gods.

 


 

Ah Mun Mayan God of maize or corn.

 


 

Ah Muzencab Mayan Gods of bees.

 


 

Ah Peku Mayan God of thunder.

 


 

Ah Puch Mayan God of death and ruler of Mitnal, the lowest and most terrible of the nine hells. Portrayed as a man with an owl's head or as a skeleton or bloated corpse. Also known as 'God A'.

 


 

Ah Tabai Mayan A god of hunting.

 


 

Ah Uincir Dz'acab Mayan God of healing.

 


 

Ah Uuc Ticab Mayan Deity of the underworld.

 


 

Aha Njoku Africa Goddess of yams and the women who care for them. Worshipped by the Ibo tribe of Nigeria.

 


 

Ahau-Kin Mayan Called the 'lord of the sun face'. The god of the sun, he possessed two forms - one for the day and one at night. During the day he was a man with some jaguar features, but between sunset and sunrise he became the Jaguar God, a lord of the underworld who travelled from west to east through the lower regions.

 


 

Ahmakiq Mayan God of agriculture who takes control of the wind when it threatens to destroy the crops.

 


 

Ahulane Mayan A war god, known as the Archer.

 


 

Aida-Wedo Vodou Loa of fertility and new life, especially conception and childbirth. Her symbol is the rainbow, and her color is white. Sacrifices of white chickens and white eggs are often made to her.

 


 

Ailuros Egypt See Bastet.

 


 

Aine Celtic Goddess of love and fertility. Later worshipped as a fairy queen.

 


 

Airmid Celtic Healing Goddess, protector of medicinal plants, and the keeper of the spring that brings the dead back to life.

 


 

Aita Etruscan God of the Underworld.

 


 

Aizan Vodou Loa of the marketplace and herbal healing. She is also the protector of the houngan (temple) and religious ceremonies, who never possesses anyone during ritual. Her symbol is the palm leaf and her colors are white and silver.

 


 

Aizen-Myoo Japan God of love, especially worshipped by prostitutes, landlords, singers and musicians. He has a third eye above his other eyes on his forehead and a lion's head in his hair.

 


 

Aja Africa Forest Goddess of the Yoruba people. Teaches the use of medicinal herbs.

 


 

Aja Mesopotamian Babylonian sun goddess.

 


 

Ajbit Mayan One of thirteen deities who created human beings.

 


 

Aji-Suki-Taka-Hi-Kone Japan God of thunder. To quiet him as a child, the gods carried him up and down a ladder, explaining the approaching and receding sound of thunder.

 


 

Ajok Africa God of the Lotuko tribe of Sudan.

 


 

Aker Egypt God of the earth and the dead. Guards the place where the eastern and western horizons meet, as well as the gate through which the pharaoh enters the underworld. Depicted as a strip of land with both ends forming the heads of a lion or human, or two lions facing in opposite directions.

 


 

Akhushtal Mayan Goddess of childbirth.

 


 

Akkan Mesopotamian Four Saami goddesses who overseeconception, birth and destiny.

 


 

Alaghom Naom Mayan Mother goddess of the Mayans. She is associated with the creation of the mind and of thought.

 


 

Alauwaimis Mesopotamian Demon which drives away evil sickness.

 


 

Alcyone Greek Minor goddess, changed into a halycon (bird) after losing her husband. Because she made her nest on the beach, the waves threatened to destroy her. Aeolus held back the winds for seven days each year so that she could lay her eggs in peace. This time was known as the 'halycon days'.

 


 

Alecto Greek One of the Furies, the avengers of murder in Greek mythology. Her name means "unceasing anger".

 


 

Alectrona Greek Daughter of the sun.

 


 

Alemonia Roman Goddess who feeds unborn children.

 


 

Alom Mayan God of the sky and one of seven deities responsible for the creation of the world.

 


 

Alpan Etruscan Goddess of love and the Underworld. Usually pictured naked.

 


 

Alpheus Greek River god of the river Alpheus.

 


 

Ama-arhus Mesopotamian Babylonian and Akkadian fertility goddess.

 


 

Amaethon Celtic Welsh god of agriculture

 


 

Ama-No-Minaka-Nushi Japan 'Divine Lord of the Middle Heavens' and god of the Pole Star.

 


 

Amaterasu Japan Shinto goddess of the sun and the leader of the Shinto pantheon. She was known as 'shining heaven' and the Japanese Emperors claimed to be descended from her.

 


 

Amathaunta Egypt Goddess of the sea.

 


 

Amatsu Mikaboshi Japan God of evil, his name means "August Star of Heaven".

 


 

Amatsu-Kami Japan Gods of heaven who live 'above' the earthly plain. They are heavenly and eternal.

 


 

Ama-Tsu-Mara Japan Shinto god of smiths. He is pictured as a cyclops.

 


 

Amaunet Egypt Mother Goddess and personification of the life-giving northern wind. Pictures as a snake or snake-head wearing the crown of lower Egypt.

 


 

Ambika Hindu A form of Parvati, she lured demons to their death. She would announce that she would not sleep with anyone who had not bested her in battle. The eager demons would agree to fight her, at which point she would transform into the fearsom Kali and kill them.

 


 

Ame-No-Mi-Kumari Japan Shinto water goddess.

 


 

Ame-No-Wakahiko Japan God sent to rule the earth. Killed by the sky god Takami-Musubi.

 


 

Ament Egypt Goddess who welcomed the spirits of the newly dead at the gates of the underworld with bread and water.

 


 

Amida Japan God of death, to whom the devout turned at the moment of their death. His realm was beautiful, full of ambrosia trees, gentle breezes and lovely birds.

 


 

Amimitl Aztec God of lakes and fish hunters.

 


 

Ammavaru Hindu Ancient goddess who existed from before the beginning of time. She laid an egg which hatched the Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.

 


 

Ammon Egypt See Amun.

 


 

Am-No-Tanabata-Hime Japan Goddess of weavers.

 


 

Amphitrite Greek Queen of the Sea and wife of Poseidon. Portrayed as a queen, often in a chariot pulled by sea creatures with her hair covered by a net. Roman equivalent: Salacia

 


 

Amun Egypt Originally a god of wind and ruler of the air, became the all-powerful sun deity of Thebes and then supreme ruler of the gods.

 


 

Amun-Re Egypt Combination of gods Amun and Re or Ra, used as the name of Amun when he became the national god of Thebes and Egypt.

 


 

Amurru Mesopotamian Akkadian god of mountains and nomads.

 


 

An Mesopotamian Summerian god of heaven.

 


 

Anala Hindu Attendant god. One of the eight Vasus who serve the god Indra.

 


 

Ananke Greek Mother of the Fates and the goddess of absolute necessity or destiny. She was rarely worshipped until the beginning of the Orphic cult. Roman equivalent: Necessitas.

 


 

Anansi Africa Trickster god of the Ashanti people. Created the sun and moon, and instituted the succession of night and day. One of the most popular gods of West African folktales.

 


 

Anantesa Hindu One of the eight Vasus who serve Indra.

 


 

Anatu Mesopotamian Goddess of the earth and sky.

 


 

Andhrimnir Norse The cook of the Aesir. He slaughters the cosmic boar every evening and cooks it. The boar is then returned to life that night to be cooked again the following day.

 


 

Andjety Egypt God of the underworld, responsible for the rebirth of souls in the afterlife.

 


 

Angerona Roman Goddess of secrecy and protector of Rome. She was shown with a bandaged mouth and a finger to her lips as if imploring silence.

 


 

Angita Roman Goddess of healing and witchcraft.

 


 

Angitia Roman Snake goddess, worshipped mostly by the Marsi of Central Italy.

 


 

Angrboda Norse Goddess and wife of Loki, She mothered three beings, the wolf Fenrir, the serpent Jormungand and Hel, the goddess of death.

 


 

Anhur Egypt Warrior and hunter god. Personified the royal warriors.

 


 

Ani Etruscan Sky God who lives in the highest Heaven. Similar to Roman Janus.

 


 

Anila Hindu One of the eight Vasus who serve the god Indra

 


 

Ankt Egypt Spear-carrying Goddess of war.

 


 

Anna Perenna Roman Goddess of the new year.

 


 

Annamurti Hindu See Vishnu.

 


 

Annapurna Hindu An avatar of the goddess Durgha who ruled over food production.

 


 

Anouke Egypt Elder Goddess of war. Pictured with bow and arrows.

 


 

Ansa Hindu One of the Adityas, minor sun gods who rule over the months.

 


 

Anteros Greek The god of mutual love. Said to punish those who did not return the love of others.

 


 

Antevorte Roman Goddess of the future.

 


 

Anti Egypt Guardian deity and god of ferrymen.

 


 

Antu Mesopotamian Summerian goddess of creation. Later replaced by Ishtar.

 


 

Anu Mesopotamian Summerian and Babylonian god of the sky, father of the gods and most powerful deity of the pantheon.

 


 

Anubis Egypt God of the dead and embalming, and protector of cemetaries and burial tombs. He holds the scales which weigh the hearts of the dead - if the heart is light, the soul will be taken to Osiris. If the heart is heavy, it will be destroyed. Pictured as a man with the head of a jackal or dog.

 


 

Anuket Egypt Goddess of the Nile river and nourisher of the fields. Pictured with a crown of reeds and ostrich feathers.

 


 

Anumati Hindu A moon gddess whose name means "divine favor". She is seen as a giver of wealth, prosperity, fertility and children.

 


 

Anunitu Mesopotamian Babylonian goddess of the moon. She was later merged with Ishtar.

 


 

Anuradha Hindu Goddess of fortune.

 


 

Apa Hindu One of the eight Vasus who serve the god Indra.

 


 

Apam Napat Hindu God of fresh water.

 


 

Apep Egypt God of chaos, darkness and evil. He battles with the sun god Re to keep the sun from returning to the world on it's nightly journey through the underworld.

 


 

Apet Egypt See Taurt.

 


 

Aphrodite Greek Goddess of love, beauty and sexual pleasure. She is the protector of lovers and those in love. Often accompanied by the Graces. She was married to Hephaestus, the god of Smithing and Fire, but found him dull and boring. She had many sexual encounters with a number of gods and mortals alike. Her festival was the Aphrodisiac, celebrated in many Greek centers, but especially Athens and Corinth. Roman equivalent: Venus.

 


 

Apis Egypt Bull god and sacred bull of Memphis.

 


 

Aplu Etruscan God of thunder and lightning. Pictured with a laurel wreath on his head and carrying a sprig of laurel.

 


 

Apo Inca Mountain God.

 


 

Apocatequil Inca Lightning god. Also the chief priest of the Incan Moon God.

 


 

Apollo Greek God of light, poetry, truth, the arts and music. He was an exceptional archer and the god of oracles. He drives a chariot bearing the sun across the sky each day. Twin brother of the goddess Artemis.

 


 

Apsaras Hindu Nature spirits, and the mates of the Gandharvas. They were all female, and all depicted as very beautiful. They were beings of dance, and often performed for the gods in their palaces. Seen as protectorers and inspirers of love.

 


 

Apsu Mesopotamian Summerian and Akkadian god of the primordial sweet waters - as opposed to the primordial bitter waters of Chaos.

 


 

Apu Illapu Inca God of thunder.

 


 

Apu Punchau Inca Another name for the Sun God, means "Head of the Day".

 


 

Aquilo Roman God of the north wind. Equivalent to the Greek Boreas.

 


 

Aradia Roman Goddess of witches in the Tuscany region of Italy. She is the daughter of Diana and her brother Lucifer (moon and sun).

 


 

Aranyani Hindu Woodland goddess.

 


 

Arazu Mesopotamian Babylonian god of completed construction.

 


 

Ardhanari Hindu Name for Shiva in his half-male, half-female aspect, signifying the his incarnation as both the male and female principles of the world.

 


 

Ardhanarisvara Hindu See Ardhanari.

 


 

Ardra Hindu Goddess of misfortune.

 


 

Arebati Africa Sky and moon god of the Pygmies of Zaire.

 


 

Arensnuphis Egypt Bening god of Egyptian Nubia. Seen as a lion or a man wearing a plumed crown.

 


 

Ares Greek God of war and bloodshed. He was handsome, cruel and vain, as well as cowardly. Often accompanied by Eris, the Goddess of Discord. Ares was not a god of honorable battle, but a bloodthirsty lover of violence and strife. Worshipped primarily in Thracia. His animals were the vulture and the dog. Roman equivalent: Mars.

 


 

Arianrhod Celtic Earth Goddess.

 


 

Artemis Greek Goddess of the wild and hunting, as well as chastity and the moon. Artemis is a huntress and dwells in the wild woods. She is a virgin, and protects her chastity with severe punishment to mortals who may catch a glimpse of her body. She is an exceptionally good archer, and is also the protector of childbirth and wild animals. Her twin brother is Apollo

 


 

Artume Etruscan Goddess of night and death, as well as growth in nature. Similar to Greek goddess Artemis.

 


 

Arundhati Hindu Astral goddess.

 


 

Aruru Mesopotamian Babylonian goddess of creation.

 


 

Aryman Hindu One of Adityas, the guardian deities of the months.

 


 

Asa Africa God of the Akamba people of Kenya. A strong yet merciful lord who offers help when human help is not available.

 


 

Asclepius Greek A god of healing, who perfected the art learned from Chiron. Son of Apollo. His symbol is the snake.

 


 

Ashnan Mesopotamian Summerian goddess of grain.

 


 

Aslesa Hindu Goddess of misfortune.

 


 

Astamatara Hindu A Puranic group of mother goddesses.

 


 

Astraea Greek Goddess of justice.

 


 

Astrild Norse Goddess of love.

 


 

Asuras Hindu Sometimes called demons, but they were, in fact, another group of powers or deities that often opposed the Devas. They may have been an earlier pantheon of gods which were supplanted by the Aryan peoples.

 


 

Asvayujau Hindu Epic and Puranic goddess of fortune.

 


 

Asvins Hindu Twin sons of Saranyu and Surya, and known as the "Divine Physicians". Represent the morning and evening stars.

 


 

Aten Egypt God of the sun and name of he visible solar disc. Aten was, for a time, the only god of Egypt during the reign of Akanaten, but the land returned to polytheism on the pharaoh's death. Pictured as a solar disc with rays that end in human hands, holding the ankh.

 


 

Athena Greek Goddess of wisdom, reason and protective force. A warrior goddess, Athena only fought to protect her charges. She sprang full-grown from the head of Zeus (although some myths credit Metis as her mother). She was the protector and patroness of the city of Athens, which bears her name, as well as agriculture, cities in general and the arts. A virgin goddess.

 


 

Aticandika Hindu See Durgha.

 


 

Atl Aztec God of water

 


 

Atla Norse Water goddess.

 


 

Atlas Greek Titan who led the battle against Zeus. For his part, he was sentenced by Zeus to carry the world upon his back. Atlaua Aztec God of fisherman and called 'lord of the waters'. Associated with the arrow.

 


 

Atri Hindu Bardic god, sage and son of Brahma.

 


 

Atum Egypt Primordial sun god and creator of the world. He is the evening or setting sun.

 


 

Audhumla Norse The primeval cow, formed from the melting ice. Her milk sustained the giant Ymir.

 


 

Aurora Roman Goddess of the dawn. Equivalent to the greek goddess Eos.

 


 

Auster Roman God of the south wind. Equivalent to the greek Notus.

 


 

Avatars of Vishnu Hindu Personifications of the god Vishnu who decended to Earth, usually to help mankind. There have been nine avatars of Vishnu so far, including Rama, Krishna, Buddha, and Narasinha. The tenth avatar will be called Kalki Avatara, and will help to end this age of existence and usher in the next.

 


 

Aya Mesopotamian Goddess of dawn.

 


 

Ayyappan Hindu God of growth, and the son of Shiva and Vishnu.

 


 

Azaca Vodou Loa of agriculture and protector of the crops. He is pictured as a peasant carrying a straw bag. His color is blue and cornmeal or corn cakes are sacrificed to him.

 


 

Ba China Daughter of Heaven. Symbol of drought.

 


 

Ba Egypt Ram god and a god of fertility. Invoked by women in the hopes that he would help them conceive.

 


 

Ba Xian China Eight Immortals" of Taoist mythology, and among the best known deities of China. The deities of the Ba Xian represent eight conditions of human existence: youth, old age, poverty, wealth, the populace, nobility, masculine and feminine.

 


 

Baal Mesopotamian God of the sun and crop fertility, widely venerated throughout the Fertile Crescent and the Middle East.

 



Baba Mesopotamian Tutelary goddess of the kings of Sumer, and a goddess of motherhood and healing.

Babbar Mesopotamian Sumerian sun god. Equatedwith the Babylonian Shamash.


 

Babi Egypt Demonic god said to live on human entrails. He helped to devour the hearts of those deemed unworthy in the ceremony of the weighing of the heart.

 


 

Bacabs Mayan Giants who hold up the sky at the four cardinal points, they are: Cauac, Ix Kan and Mulac.

 


 

Bacchus Roman God of wine and intoxication. Euivalent to the Greek Dionysus.

 


 

Backlum Chaam Mayan God of male sexuality.

 


 

Badb Celtic Irish war Goddess and Crone.

 


 

Baku Japan A good spirit, known as the 'eater of dreams'. He brings good fortune by eating the nightmares of those who call on him. Seen as a creature with a lion's head, tiger's feet and a horse's body.

 


 

Bala Hindu Mother goddess.

 


 

Balakrsna Hindu The child form of Krishna.

 


 

Balam Mayan Mayan for 'jaguar', these deities are the protectors of individuals in their daily lives, and of the community from external menaces.

 


 

Balarama Hindu God of agriculture and physical strength, and the eighth avatar of Vishnu. He is the brother of Krishna, and is white-skinned where Krishna is dark-skinned.

 


 

Balder Norse Fairest of the gods, Balder was the epitome of light, joy, innocence and beauty. He was killed by Loki, who tricked the blind Hod into throwing a dart made of mistletoe at the god.

 


 

Bali Hindu Demon and king of the Daityas. He was the god of the sky until Vishnu wrested it from him in the avatar Vamana, the dwarf. Since then he is ruler of the Underworld.

 


 

Balor Celtic God of death and king of the Formorians - a race of evil giants defeated by the Tuatha De Danann

 


 

Banba Celtic Fertility Goddess and the spirit of Ireland.

 


 

Banebdjetet Egypt Ram god of lower Egypt. Pictured as a man with a ram's head.

 


 

Banga Africa Ngbandi peoples' god of clear waters.

 


 

Banka-Mundi Hindu Goddess of hunting.

 


 

Baron Cimetière Vodou Loa of the cemetary in the family of Guédé.

 


 

Baron Samedi Vodou Most powerful of the Guédé, he is the loa of death and controls the passageway between the world of the living and the world of the dead. He often has information about the dead. His color is black and he prefers a top hat and dark glasses. He likes cigarettes, food, and rum in which 21 hot peppers have been steeped.

 


 

Baron-La-Croix Vodou Loa of the cross in the family of Guédé.

 


 

Bastet Egypt Cat headed Goddess of Egypt. Often seen as another form of Sekhmet. A solar and later lunar deity.

 


 

Bat Egypt Cow Goddess of fertility. Pictured as a cow or as a woman with the ears and horns of a cow.

 


 

Belatu-Cadros Celtic Also Belatucadros. God of war and destruction of enemies.

 


 

Belenus Celtic God of light; called 'the shining one'. Protector of sheep and cattle. The holiday Beltane means 'Bel's fires'.

 


 

Belet-Ili Mesopotamian Summerian goddess of the womb.

 


 

Beletseri Mesopotamian Akkadian 'clerk' of the Underworld, who kept records of human activities so that she could advise on their final judgment after death. She is called Queen of the Desert.

 


 

Belisama Celtic Goddess of light, fire, forging and crafts.

 


 

Bellona Roman Goddess of war, her worship was popular among Roman soldiers.

 


 

Benten Japan Goddess of love, the arts, wisdom, poetry, good fortune and water. Originally a sea deity, he became the patroness of the rich and the arts. She is seen as a beautiful woman riding a dragon. In her eight hands she holds a sword, a jewel, a bow, an arrow, a wheel and a key. Her other two arms are folded in prayer.

 


 

Benzai-Ten Japan See Benten.

 


 

Bes Egypt Grotesque dwarf god. Said to guard households against evil spirits and misfortune. Also a god of joviality, dancing, singing and happiness.

 


 

Beset Egypt Female version of the god Bes.

 


 

Beyla Norse The servant of Freyr. She may be related to dairy work or to mead.

 


 

Bhadra Hindu Goddess and attendant of Shiva.

 


 

Bhaga Hindu Vedic god of prosperity, wealth and marriage. He is one of the Adityas, and the month of March is dedicated to him.

 


 

Bharani Hindu Goddess of misfortune. Consort of Chandra.

 


 

Bharat Mata Hindu Mother goddess.

 


 

Bharati Hindu Goddess of sacrifices. Occasionally mentioned as the consort of Ganesha.

 


 

Bhavani Hindu One of the terrible aspects of Parvati.

 


 

Bhumidevi Hindu A fertility goddess and the second wife of Vishnu.

 


 

Bhumiya Hindu A fertility god, later regarded as a form of Vishnu.

 


 

Bhutamata Hindu A demon goddess, form of the goddess Parvati.

 


 

Bhuvanesvari Hindu Goddess, one of the ten mahavidyas. Bile Celtic See Belenus.

 


 

Bimbogami Japan God of poverty. Rituals are performed to get rid of him.

 


 

Binzuru-Sonja Japan God of curing illness and good vision.

 


 

Bishamon Japan God of war, justice and protector of the law. He is one of the Shichi Fukujin and is portrayed in full armor, standing on demons and holding a spear in his hand.

 


 

Bitol Mayan One of the seven Mayan creator deities.

 


 

Bixia Yuanjin China Taoist Goddess of dawn, destiny and childbirth. Boann Celtic Goddess of bounty and fertility. Her symbol is the white cow.

 


 

Bolontiku Mayan A group of deities of the underworld. Bomazi Africa Ancestral deity of the Congo.

 


 

Bona Dea Roman The 'good goddess', she was the protector of women and the matron of both fertility and virginity in females. She was especially revered by matrons. Also a goddess of healing.

 


 

Boreas Greek God of the northern wind.

 


 

Borghild Norse Goddess of the evening mist or moon, she slays the sun each evening.

 


 

Bosatsu Japan Manifestation of the Buddha in the past, present or future. See bodhisattva.

 


 

Bragi Norse God of poets and the patron of all skaldi (poets) in Norse culture.

 


 

Brahma Hindu Creator god and Cosmic Mind of the Hindu Trinity, the three major gods of Hinduism that make up the whole of the godhead. He appears seated on a lotus, with four heads and four hands that hold a sacrificial tool, the Vedas, a water pot and a rosary. His consort is Saraswati, the goddess of learning.

 


 

Brahmani Hindu Hindu mother goddess.

 


 

Bran Celtic A hero god, protector of poetry and the underworld.

 


 

Branwen Celtic Goddess of love and beauty.

 


 

Bres Celtic God of fertility and agriculture.

 


 

Brigit Celtic Also known as Bridget, Brighid and Brigindo. Goddess of healing, fertility and the hearth. She is the patron of poets, smiths and doctors. Transformed into St. Brigid in the Christian revolution of Ireland.

 


 

Brigitte Vodou Loa of money, who has special influence over black magic and ill-gotten fortune. Similar to the Catholic St. Brigid. Her color is purple and black chickens are sacrificed to her.

 


 

Brihaspati Hindu The lord of prayer, the celestial god who created the Universe and protects the gods with his magic formulae.

 


 

Brono Norse The son of Balder. He is the god of daylight.

 


 

Bubona Roman Goddess of horses and cattle. Equated with the Celtic goddess Epona, whose worship was carried to Rome by the army after invading Gaul.

 


 

Buddha Hindu Founder and father of the Buddhist faith. He is said to be an avatar of Vishnu. He was born an enchanted child and already full of wisdom. He received Enlightment under a Bo tree, and forook Nirvana to remain on Earth and travel, preaching the law.

 


 

Budha Hindu Astral god associated with the planet Mercury.

 


 

Budhi Pallien Hindu Forest goddess of northern India. She roamed the jungles in the form of a tiger.

 


 

Buku Africa West African god of the sky.

 


 

Buluc Chabtan Mayan God of war. He was the deity to whom humans were sacrificed. Also known as 'God F'.

 


 

Bumba Africa Creator god of the Boshongo of Zaire, who vomited up the sun, earth, and all living creatures.

 


 

Buto Egypt Snake Goddess of the oracle at Buto and protector of the Egyptian royal family.

 


 

Butsu Japan See Buddha.

 



Bylgia Norse Water goddess.

 

This is just a list of the A's and B's.  Trust me.  There are proportionally just as many for C-Z.  When you add up a list of all the gods and goddesses that man has believed in since the beginning of believing in gods and goddesses, only a tiny fraction of them believed in Jesus.  So few, in fact, that the impact of Jesus on the history of humanity is very small, indeed.  Only two thousand years out of sixty thousand or so that we have evidence of mystical beliefs.  Not only that, but in the two thousand years, the Jesus myth has only been accessible to a small portion of the world's population.  Until just a few centuries ago, virtually nobody outside of Europe and the Middle East had ever heard of Jesus.

The fact is, an argument based on the popularity of an idea simply doesn't hold any water.  There's no way to know whether everyone is right or wrong.  After all, right after 9/11, the majority of Americans believed that Iraq had WMDs and that Sadaam Hussein was behind the attack.  Turns out, they were all wrong.

This is why we do not use the popularity of an idea to determine its truth.  (When I say "we" I'm referring to those of us who know how to think critically, as opposed to "you" who are too busy blathering on about things you've never studied to bother with studying them.)

Quote:
Other means of my conclusion through the method you extensivly present to me are

You mean the method you haven't read?

Quote:
Not one of those sources alone would have helped me come to the conclusion to believe, but all of them combined.

False.  Science or logic alone can disprove your conclusion.  You really ought to learn more about science and logic.

Quote:
I hope I wasn't too far off from your intentions, but as I said, I hadn't actually had the time to check out all of it yet.

It would be difficult for you to be farther off.  Maybe that's because you don't read.  You just preach.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13545
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:Hambydammit

caposkia wrote:

Hambydammit wrote:

You know what I love about this thread?  I jumped in just long enough to explain the fundamental necessity of science, logic, and empiricism, and did so in thorough fashion.  Curiously, I'm the only poster whose contribution has been completely avoided by the OP.  Funny, that...

I didn't know I had a due date on my homework assignment prof. 

What you wrote was a lot, pretty redundant, and I'll admit, I haven't been able to read the links yet, but I see you can't wait, so I'll give my general understanding and conclusion and you can tell me how far off I am from your intentions.

It sounds to me like your conclusion is that scientific method is necessary.  There's a reason why I've been singling out "Physical Sciences".  I never said a logical progression to a conclusion needed to be thrown out.  Physical sciences cannot be used to study something that is not physical.  Period.  It should speak for itself

It seems that your conclusion of me is that I lack the emperical evidence to come to the conclusion that I have come to in my life.  However, I have redundantly requested people to present me a method of which they will accept and that effectively supports the study of the spiritual or non-material world. 

I'm not sure if your post or links touch on this, but for something to be "scientifically" and "emperically" concluded, there has to be X number of outcomes that end up with the same conclusion.  I have mentioned that there are 1000's of people in the United States and Millions world wide that have the same understanding I do.  I'd say that's a pretty significant emperical conclusion on my part...

oh, but wait, what of the other religions.  Well, maybe my understanding's not correct, however, I have belief in why mine is over others that I'm aware of as well, but one step at a time.

I guess I could generalize the conclusion by saying that over 90% of people in the world accept that there is a spiritual or non-material world.  That is the basic issue we're trying to takle apparently on here right?  '

Other means of my conclusion through the method you extensivly present to me are:

Personal experience,

science,

history,

geography,

other observed and personal. 

Not one of those sources alone would have helped me come to the conclusion to believe, but all of them combined. 

I hope I wasn't too far off from your intentions, but as I said, I hadn't actually had the time to check out all of it yet. 

Quote:
but all of them combined.

Your nose is growing.

Here is the real answer that you hinted at but wont admit.

Quote:

other observed and personal.

You want a magical protector so bad that you will see what you want to see because it makes you feel good. So you retrofit all the other stuff to match your "personal" experience.

I am going to keep hounding this home until you get it. The fact that you have stayed on this board for so long says to me that we, even if you don't want to accept it, are getting to you.

GHOSTS DON'T KNOCK UP GIRLS. THERE IS NO GOD ASKING GABREAL TO PUT ON A BARRY WHITE ALBUM TO TELL MARY HE IS IN THE MOOD. HUMAN FLESH DOES NOT SURVIVE RIGOR MORTIS.

If and when that sinks in, you will understand what we are trying to drill into your myth loving brain. YOU BOUGHT A LIE. A lie is a lie no matter how much you want it to be true.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:I AM GOD AS

caposkia wrote:

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Okay, AGAIN, fuck all you idol worshipers, I am god, you are god, so FUCK YOU idol worshipers, all of you. My way or the highway to hell, you fucking loons, all you religious retarded fucks. All religion is the highway to hell .... Laughing at you idol worshipers,

AC/DC - Highway To Hell (with Bon Scott)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDpznl8eIs

    What ever , FUCK YOU , all you idol worshipers , YOU SUCK, YOU LIE. Fuck you.

 

...and which religion was it that hurt you and how?  You can PM me with the answer if you want.  It is a serious question, nothing sarcastic. 

Religion killed my story jesus atheistic friend, tried to kill cool buddha, and burned at the stake my freethinking ancestors. Religion of idol worship separatism isn't the only thing I despise, but it's high on my list, and plays a big role in most all I oppose.

Neale Donald Walsch - Who is God - 5 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCeSlAvzvCQ

Neale Donald Walsch Discusses The Emotion Of Fear - 8 min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA4HwFHiYyA&feature=related

And here are 2 favorites of mine,
Carl Sagan - "Pale Blue Dot" , 3 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

"Wisdom of the Buddha" , 8 min ( so jesus like !!! )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTsb-woP3jI  

Your enemy, is my enemy, but what is the enemy to heal?

 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:1. Which

jcgadfly wrote:

1. Which non-believers would those be?

a majority census on this site. 

jcgadfly wrote:

2. I can only guess at your internal dialogue before you come to this site.

you don't need to.  I say it how it is and I answer questions to the best of my knowlege.


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:jcgadfly

caposkia wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

1. Which non-believers would those be?

a majority census on this site. 

jcgadfly wrote:

2. I can only guess at your internal dialogue before you come to this site.

you don't need to.  I say it how it is and I answer questions to the best of my knowlege.

Ah, that must be wht you've disregarded nearly every poster on this thread...

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
Hambydammit wrote:Had you

Hambydammit wrote:

Had you been reading instead of pontificating, you'd realize that you've just ruled out the possibility of your own claims.

had you been reading, you'd realize this is old hat to this forum and useless right now.

Hambydammit wrote:

I addressed that in my post, and the links I provided gave substantially more detail.  Would you like to try to read and learn, or are you just interested in telling us how correct you are, without even knowing the other side of the argument?

did you read my response to you? or did you just assume what was said?  (not rhetorical)

Hambydammit wrote:

No.  For something to be scientifically concluded, there has to be enough evidence to reach the conclusion.  Inductive reasoning, repeated testing, elimination of all other possibilities, and parsimony are all factors in determining the truth and validity of a conclusion.  Have you ever actually done any science?  (That's not a rhetorical question.)

yea, you really don't read.  yea, I've done science. 

Hambydammit wrote:

The irony is that you and the millions of people in the U.S. and billions of people worldwide think that the popularity of an idea has anything at all to do with it's validity or truth.  If you understood the fundamentally unavoidable nature of the acquisition of knowledge, you would realize your mistake.

except for the fact that with only a Bible, people come to the same conclusion when seeking out God unless swayed by another source be it a dispensationalist denomination. 

If a scientist concluded something in science, but only he was able to reproduce the results no matter how much he explained it to others, it would not be accepted as credible. 

Hambydammit wrote:

It's certainly not for a lack of me trying.  Out of curiosity, how long has it taken you to write your posts in this thread?  A couple of hours?  Plenty of time to read all of the links I gave you.  Curiously, you seem much more intent on opining without knowledge of the subject matter.

likewise.  Sounds to me like we should start another thread where our conversation would actually be relevant to the topic.

Hambydammit wrote:


It would be difficult for you to be farther off.  Maybe that's because you don't read.  You just preach.

 

And after all that, I can easily conclude that you don't read yourself, but only preach.  Why?  eh, maybe you should read up a bit on the progress of this forum.  and review my response to you.  When you do that, let me know and we'll go from there. 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:Your nose is

Brian37 wrote:

Your nose is growing.

Here is the real answer that you hinted at but wont admit.

 

Quote:

other observed and personal.

You want a magical protector so bad that you will see what you want to see because it makes you feel good. So you retrofit all the other stuff to match your "personal" experience.

I am going to keep hounding this home until you get it. The fact that you have stayed on this board for so long says to me that we, even if you don't want to accept it, are getting to you.

GHOSTS DON'T KNOCK UP GIRLS. THERE IS NO GOD ASKING GABREAL TO PUT ON A BARRY WHITE ALBUM TO TELL MARY HE IS IN THE MOOD. HUMAN FLESH DOES NOT SURVIVE RIGOR MORTIS.

If and when that sinks in, you will understand what we are trying to drill into your myth loving brain. YOU BOUGHT A LIE. A lie is a lie no matter how much you want it to be true.

 

I stay becasue I'm entertained.. I'm also hopeful that one person might teach me something.  Been disappointed so far. 

The truth is the truth no matter how much you don't want it to be... yes, I know what I just said, now let's go from there.


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13545
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:Brian37

caposkia wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Your nose is growing.

Here is the real answer that you hinted at but wont admit.

 

Quote:

other observed and personal.

You want a magical protector so bad that you will see what you want to see because it makes you feel good. So you retrofit all the other stuff to match your "personal" experience.

I am going to keep hounding this home until you get it. The fact that you have stayed on this board for so long says to me that we, even if you don't want to accept it, are getting to you.

GHOSTS DON'T KNOCK UP GIRLS. THERE IS NO GOD ASKING GABREAL TO PUT ON A BARRY WHITE ALBUM TO TELL MARY HE IS IN THE MOOD. HUMAN FLESH DOES NOT SURVIVE RIGOR MORTIS.

If and when that sinks in, you will understand what we are trying to drill into your myth loving brain. YOU BOUGHT A LIE. A lie is a lie no matter how much you want it to be true.

 

I stay becasue I'm entertained.. I'm also hopeful that one person might teach me something.  Been disappointed so far. 

The truth is the truth no matter how much you don't want it to be... yes, I know what I just said, now let's go from there.

You are disappointed because you can't "pick one of us off" with your garbage mental slight of hand. Glad you are entertained though, masachism must be a hobby for you. The reason you aren't learning anything is because you are in the grips of a delusion and delusions can feel extremely strong and real, even though they are not.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GODSPERM AND HUMAN FLESH DOES NOT SURVIVE RIGOR MORTIS......YOUR GOD IS A MYTH.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
"except for the fact that

"except for the fact that with only a Bible, people come to the same conclusion when seeking out God unless swayed by another source be it a dispensationalist denomination. 

If a scientist concluded something in science, but only he was able to reproduce the results no matter how much he explained it to others, it would not be accepted as credible."

Hey Cap, where did the fact that millions of people came to the same conclusion make that conclusion correct? 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
Thanks caposkia , for

Thanks caposkia , for bringing revelation to the further empowering of rejecting traditional theism of separatism idol worship. The short videos I sent you above are an honest gift of kindness and concern for you. I am in "awe" too my friend, and your real enemy is my enemy too.

 


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:

caposkia wrote:
------------- words -------------

You're a real prince.  You admit that you don't read what I post, and then you accuse me of the same thing.  Why don't we take a poll...

Hello, readers!  Anyone who has read my initial post in this thread and the subsequent exchange between me and caposkia, would you say that my responses demonstrated an appropriate comprehension of the material to which I was responding?

Now, cap, just to be sure we're on the same page here...

Quote:
And after all that, I can easily conclude that you don't read yourself, but only preach.  Why?  eh, maybe you should read up a bit on the progress of this forum.  and review my response to you.  When you do that, let me know and we'll go from there.

Caposkia, I have read this entire thread, and you have yet to refute anything I said in my initial post...

Monty Python wrote:
M:  Oh look, this isn't an argument.
A:   Yes it is.
M:   No it isn't. It's just contradiction.
A:   No it isn't.
M:  It is!
A:   It is not.
M:  Look, you just contradicted me.
A:   I did not.
M:  Oh you did!!
A:   No, no, no.
M:  You did just then.
A:   Nonsense!
M:  Oh, this is futile!
A:   No it isn't.
M:  I came here for a good argument.
A:   No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M:  An argument isn't just contradiction.
A:   It can be.
M:  No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A:   No it isn't.
M:  Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A:   Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M:  Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A:   Yes it is!
M:   No it isn't!

A:   Yes it is!
M:  Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
A:  No it isn't.
M:  It is.
A:  Not at all.
M:  Now look.
A: (Rings bell)  Good Morning.

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


JillSwift
Superfan
JillSwift's picture
Posts: 1758
Joined: 2008-01-13
User is offlineOffline
Hambydammit wrote:Caposkia,

Hambydammit wrote:
Caposkia, I have read this entire thread, and you have yet to refute anything I said in my initial post...
I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict Cap's answer to thi swill be along the lines of "Yes I have."

It will be said without a trace of irony, too.

 

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


Thomathy
SuperfanBronze Member
Thomathy's picture
Posts: 1861
Joined: 2007-08-20
User is offlineOffline
Hambydammit wrote:Hello,

Hambydammit wrote:
Hello, readers!  Anyone who has read my initial post in this thread and the subsequent exchange between me and caposkia, would you say that my responses demonstrated an appropriate comprehension of the material to which I was responding?
Hamby, your posts have been comprehensive and comprehensible.  They have been complete and they have responded more than adequately to caposkia's posts.  Caposkia has not once in this entire thread refuted, nor attempted to refute, any of your posts.  In fact, he's never done this of anyone's posts.


 

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


WillieBop
Theist
Posts: 61
Joined: 2007-03-19
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:THERE IS NO

Brian37 wrote:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GODSPERM AND HUMAN FLESH DOES NOT SURVIVE RIGOR MORTIS......YOUR GOD IS A MYTH.

 

 

Thank you.. that's pure entertainment there.  I laughed for a good minute or so. 


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
Quote:Ah, here we go. 

Quote:

Ah, here we go.  Finally. 

Mind you my understanding of evolution isn't the only reason why I believe there's a God.  It'd be like me saying to you, if I showed you something that was true written in the Bible, then would you believe.  I would think not and I wouldn't expect you too, but it would be a start.

I'm willing to look at whatever you want to show me.  Anything to challenge my understanding.  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Okay (to be fair, this evidence is littered all over the site, so I'm surprised you said 'finally'...) - and yes, I understand that understanding the evolutionary science isn't going to be the wedge that ultimately severs you from your delusion, but I think you should really at least understand the process. These videos will take you through the creation of the universe to abiogenesis to evolution to a myriad of other topics, and are very easy to follow (and, in my opinion, fairly entertaining):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ken Miller's videos are also excellent illustrative tools for you to take a look at (Dr. Miller, just FYI, is a Catholic, so you may be able to identify with him more easily:

 

(Human Evolution)

 

(Evolution of Whales)

 

(A number of brilliant points, punctuated by an excellent diagram demostrating the horse & elephant branches)

(...Please take careful note of Berlinski's inability to answer Miller's question, as well as his constant backpedalling. Also: ask yourself if you can answer his question with a superior answer to descent with modification)

 

This stuff can get you started. I very much recommend reading Origin of Species (should be plenty of copies at your local library), and DEFINATELY read the articles posted by Hambydammit & DeludedGod here on the RRS domain (top left-hand side. Look for 'Rational Content', then 'Articles & Essays' and then read through the material at your own leisure. And don't make my mistake of reading any of them with a preconceived notion of what they are suggesting. Smiling )

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Fish
Posts: 315
Joined: 2007-05-31
User is offlineOffline
I will be completely

I will be completely convinced by caposkia if he can explain how he can rely upon the argument:

P1: Ninety percent believe X.

P2: When ninety percent believe in something, it is always right.

C1: Therefore, X.

(as Hambydammit so succinctly put it)

despite the fact that it is demonstratedly false.

 

 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:Ah, that must

jcgadfly wrote:

Ah, that must be wht you've disregarded nearly every poster on this thread...

yea, couldn't be because no one wants to give me a method of research that they would find acceptable AND that they have nothing to do with the topic of this post. 

(Sorry, Jcgadfly, I respect you.  You're one of the few on here who seem to have some sense about them, but it had to be said)


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:You are

Brian37 wrote:

You are disappointed because you can't "pick one of us off" with your garbage mental slight of hand. Glad you are entertained though, masachism must be a hobby for you. The reason you aren't learning anything is because you are in the grips of a delusion and delusions can feel extremely strong and real, even though they are not.

I'd learn something if someone would give me some concrete information.  (I haven't had a chance to look at all the videos yet...)  With that said, it seem that others want me to learn something.  You just want to boost your ego or at least that's how you're coming across.  Sorry if that's not the case. 

And again, with such assured confident answers that my belief is fake, PLEASE give me your acceptable source that has studied the spiritual world so this forum can make some progress. 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
Hambydammit wrote:You're a

Hambydammit wrote:

You're a real prince.  You admit that you don't read what I post, and then you accuse me of the same thing.  Why don't we take a poll...

This is why I said you don't read.  If you look back at my original post, I will quote that I said; "I haven't had time yet to check out your links".  Which is completely different than "I don't read what you post". 

Why do you expect me, 1 person, to have so much time that I can sit down for hours at a time to read, watch, gather and study all the information so I can reply to you in a timely manner? 

I also still wonder why everyone ignores the whole reason why this was posted to begin with.  Have you read the one thing I suggested yet?  The forum topic if you forgot. If not, why not?  Are you saying that you'll preach without base?

yea, see how this can end up in a stalemate?  Do you want to get serious yet?  If you're as smart as you say you are, then you'll understand that this is getting us nowhere.  If you want me to respond to what you've presented, specify which part, we'll make a new forum, and don't waste my time with petty excuses for not having answers. 

(sorry, that sounded mean.  It was said in a casual tone)

 

BTW, loved that Python skit. 


 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
I AM GOD AS YOU

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Religion killed my story jesus atheistic friend, tried to kill cool buddha, and burned at the stake my freethinking ancestors. Religion of idol worship separatism isn't the only thing I despise, but it's high on my list, and plays a big role in most all I oppose.

What you seem to dispise is religious dispensationalism.  I am not a part of any of that.  I hate religion because it causes separation and I dispise dispensationalism because it controls. 

Check out http://www.ptm.org.  I'm thinking this might open your eyes to what it means to follow Jesus.  Let me know. 

If you ask Greg a question, he will respond to you usually within 2 days. 

As far as Buddha goes, it is funny how much Jesus and Buddha have in common.  However, you have to consider the differences as well.

Watching that video, there was a lot that Jesus would not agree with or claim that was said.

However, what would be agreed upon ironically Jesus Himself took from the Old Testiment.  Which means it's very possible that Buddha did the same, be it that it is quoted by Buddha almost exactly the way it is written in scripture.  Most of the OT writings were written long before Buddha was around. 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
Fish wrote:I will be

Fish wrote:

I will be completely convinced by caposkia if he can explain how he can rely upon the argument:

P1: Ninety percent believe X.

P2: When ninety percent believe in something, it is always right.

C1: Therefore, X.

(as Hambydammit so succinctly put it)

despite the fact that it is demonstratedly false.

Alright, I'll take it bit by bit and we'll see where this goes.

Granted most will disagree with each other on who God is, however, many who accept a spiritual world have concrete reasons for doing so.  none of which will be acceptable on here it seems.  Why do I say that?  I've tried.  All I got was sarcasm and disbelief and the whole personal account thing.  There's a reason why I haven't gone far with any of that. 


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
Thomathy wrote:Hambydammit

Thomathy wrote:

Hambydammit wrote:
Hello, readers!  Anyone who has read my initial post in this thread and the subsequent exchange between me and caposkia, would you say that my responses demonstrated an appropriate comprehension of the material to which I was responding?
Hamby, your posts have been comprehensive and comprehensible.  They have been complete and they have responded more than adequately to caposkia's posts.  Caposkia has not once in this entire thread refuted, nor attempted to refute, any of your posts.  In fact, he's never done this of anyone's posts.

 

The ball's been in your court.  I have asked again and again.  it's getting annoying actually.  (monotonically)  What source do you want to use that can study the concept of a spiritual world and that will be acceptable by you. 

ok. there you go AGAIN.  answers yet???? waiting..............


caposkia
Theist
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2007-05-15
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:Hey Cap,

jcgadfly wrote:

Hey Cap, where did the fact that millions of people came to the same conclusion make that conclusion correct? 

When the personal source for the information was taken out of the equation. 

Most people believe what they do because "someone said so"


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
caposkia, I checked out a

caposkia,

I checked out a bit of that PTM site, and glad it's not much fundy oriented. Having mentors can often be good, importand and helpful, but having an idol as is taught in most religion is obviously wrong.

Whether Buddha of Jesus even existed historically is not relevant to me. 

We are the Christ, the Buddha etc. Knowing why is to awaken to understading the meaning of "the good word". In the east it is more about who is your favorite "mentor". In the west it's so much like, my mentor or fuck you. I find wise and silly, in all religious philosophies and groups. Heck, the "Twilight Zone" can be profound too.

I am an atheist materialist to the bone, but I am also a jesus, buddha, taoist, confucius, hindu, mythology fan. But FUCK dogma by any design .... i am god as you are god, as all is god, period. Fuck all supernatural separatism. Whatever the fuck there is, is ME and YOU. What is not connected? Why invent or believe myth?

This RRS thread, gets interesting like pg 8 and going back , where I wrote a lot that might entertain you. See you there maybe, me jesus, as you. Bring beer!  

 "Question for our Christian visitors"

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/atheist_vs_theist/2534?page=7

  Also, clicking on any posters name will allow you "track" all their writing.


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:jcgadfly

caposkia wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Hey Cap, where did the fact that millions of people came to the same conclusion make that conclusion correct? 

When the personal source for the information was taken out of the equation. 

Most people believe what they do because "someone said so"

Could it also be something like:

1. Person feels depressed.

2. Person reads Bible.

3. Person prays the Lord's prayer (just an example).

4. Person feels emotional release.

4. Person tells story to Christian.

5. Christian tells person "You got saved".

and VOILA! another one in the fold because God gives them warm fuzzies.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:Thomathy

caposkia wrote:

Thomathy wrote:

Hambydammit wrote:
Hello, readers!  Anyone who has read my initial post in this thread and the subsequent exchange between me and caposkia, would you say that my responses demonstrated an appropriate comprehension of the material to which I was responding?
Hamby, your posts have been comprehensive and comprehensible.  They have been complete and they have responded more than adequately to caposkia's posts.  Caposkia has not once in this entire thread refuted, nor attempted to refute, any of your posts.  In fact, he's never done this of anyone's posts.

 

The ball's been in your court.  I have asked again and again.  it's getting annoying actually.  (monotonically)  What source do you want to use that can study the concept of a spiritual world and that will be acceptable by you. 

ok. there you go AGAIN.  answers yet???? waiting..............

I think that's the point, cap. The "spiritual world" can't be studied because it is a figment of the imagination. If you want to use fiction to study imagination (the Bible to study the spiritual world), go for it.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


kenderoth
Superfan
Posts: 20
Joined: 2007-07-25
User is offlineOffline
I've seen multiple versions

I've seen multiple versions or "The New and improved Christianity" and all of them still rely on bigoted fallacies and absurdity.


Magus
High Level DonorModerator
Magus's picture
Posts: 592
Joined: 2007-04-11
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:Thomathy

caposkia wrote:

Thomathy wrote:

Hambydammit wrote:
Hello, readers!  Anyone who has read my initial post in this thread and the subsequent exchange between me and caposkia, would you say that my responses demonstrated an appropriate comprehension of the material to which I was responding?
Hamby, your posts have been comprehensive and comprehensible.  They have been complete and they have responded more than adequately to caposkia's posts.  Caposkia has not once in this entire thread refuted, nor attempted to refute, any of your posts.  In fact, he's never done this of anyone's posts.

 

The ball's been in your court.  I have asked again and again.  it's getting annoying actually.  (monotonically)  What source do you want to use that can study the concept of a spiritual world and that will be acceptable by you. 

ok. there you go AGAIN.  answers yet???? waiting..............

 

This constant statement made by you that we should come up with the methods for determining the truth about your beliefs is absurd. You are the one with the positive claim it is your job to present the evidence.  If you don't have a method that can be tested all you have is blind idiotic assertions. 

The spiritual world should be treated as nonsense until you proved evidence that it exists.

What don't you understand about this?

 

Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.


Fish
Posts: 315
Joined: 2007-05-31
User is offlineOffline
caposkia wrote:Fish wrote:I

caposkia wrote:

Fish wrote:

I will be completely convinced by caposkia if he can explain how he can rely upon the argument:

P1: Ninety percent believe X.

P2: When ninety percent believe in something, it is always right.

C1: Therefore, X.

(as Hambydammit so succinctly put it)

despite the fact that it is demonstratedly false.

Alright, I'll take it bit by bit and we'll see where this goes.

Granted most will disagree with each other on who God is, however, many who accept a spiritual world have concrete reasons for doing so.  none of which will be acceptable on here it seems.  Why do I say that?  I've tried.  All I got was sarcasm and disbelief and the whole personal account thing.  There's a reason why I haven't gone far with any of that. 

I'm not sure if this is actually your reply (or just an indication that you will reply at some point), since it doesn't address the question at all, so I apologize if I'm not giving you adequate time to repsond.  It does appear, however, that there is some confusion that has to be clarified.

 

The question is NOT: "What personal experiences have you had that makes you believe in god?"

 

The question IS: "How can you rely on the argument 'Lots of people believe in X, therefore X must be true' when that argument is easily shown to be completely invalid?"


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
The reason you haven't

The reason you haven't gotten anywhere is that "personal accounts" or testimonials are utterly worthless as evidence.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
Caposkia, your insistence on

Caposkia, your insistence on finding a model with which to study spirituality presupposes the existence of it.  If you had read any of my material, you would understand why such a position is impossibly incompatible with the acquisition of knowledge.  The correct position, as I have repeatedly demonstrated, is starting with the data and drawing conclusions.  Since there is no data supporting the existence of spirits, there is no conclusion to be drawn.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Almost like asking what

Almost like asking what color is the tooth fariy's hair or whether a unicorn's horn is made of bone like cattle or hair like a rhino.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
Cap, just keep on thinking

Cap, just keep on thinking honestly on it. I am an "atheist for jesus", the buddha like story jesus. Whether a historical person, Jesus or Buddha existed, is irrelevant.

What we are, on this atomic speck of dust we call earth, is all a science question. Amazing, Gawedly, Miraculous, it indeed is ! .... But NO to all dogma superstition idol worship separatism. Why create a master, an idol??? .... Sure, I understand ..... and I am sorry, but obviously we are on our own. Welcome to the still primitive, "21st century schizoid man", on this planet of so much fear and confusion.