A Challenge to Rick Warren and Joel Olsteen
Why won't you face atheists? What are you afraid of? Could it be that you have no intellectual defense for your magical claims? Could it be that if you did face us and debate us people who follow you might be given the better choice of reason and your bread and butter living would be at risk? Is that why you are afraid to face us? Because atheists are lifting the veil of the superstition exposing the man behind the curtain?
No, you don't have time for us. You are too busy selling books and making money expanding your empires. Don't feel bad, the Pope won't debate us either, nor will most Muslim Clerics and Jewish Rabbis. Intellectual bravery in theism is severely lacking.
You'll ignore this challenge, not because some magical being exists, but because you have no defense for such a claim. I love to be proven wrong and would welcome such a challenge.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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BTW, I admire that you are a single parent and keeping it together. I'm not sure why you had to have so many kids, or why you take time typing on an atheist forum when you could be applying your energy to something more important. Excuse my brusqueness.
Thanks for your kind words.
I have so many children because it's what I was called to do. I take time to post here for several reasons. First, because it's fun. Second, because it makes me think. Third, because it needs to be done.
Not all the kids are still at home. Three down and three to go. I post here a lot while they are at school or asleep since I don't sleep much. No need to apologize for saying what you think, that's what these forums are all about.
Now, back to the business at hand...
However, you claim that God Almighty came a spoke to you through Jesus. This is a vastly different belief - especially because you believe it so strongly (I assume, since you readily claim it). Yet, you haven't given yourself over to the service of god even though you believe that god is much more important than any science discovery. (Or, do you feel god is less important than an important scientific discovery?)
I never said that God was more important than scientific discovery. In fact, it is my contention that scientific discovery is indeed another revelation to Man as to the workings of God.
I am doing God's work. As you can see from my numerous offspring, I have enthusiastically (and, as evidenced by the existence of illegitimate children, over-enthusiastically) thrown myself into the shared process of creation with God. I have, with varying degrees of success, striven to instill Christian attitudes into my children. I hold and teach the belief of the equal dignity of all human beings, which is the crux of Christian belief.
Indeed. And who has proper authority on the supernatural? How do you test to see if Paul was right, Pope X or III, or David Koresh?
The Church established by Jesus Christ possesses that authority.
You determine it based on your own opinion: your own authority.
I start with a God belief for various reasons. Primarily because there is something, rather than nothing. I have other reasons for believing which are emotionally based, and are admittedly subjective which I will not and do not share with others out of hand.
I initially examnine the New Testament Gospels, not as the word of God, but as historical documents of which we have more and more recent copuies than we have of other documents from antiquity. From those historical documents, I see that Jesus Christ was either mad, or exactly what He claimed to be, ie, the Son of God. No mad man ever spoke as Christ did, nor did they perform the wonders which He did. Therefore, I must concede His Divinity. I see from His words that He intended to found a Church with authority over His Word against which the "gates of Hell" would not prevail. It is that Church which tells me that the Gospels are the word of God. Like St. Jerome (I think) I (and I'm working from memory here, so the quote may not be 100% accurate) would not accept the Scriptures as the Word of God if the Catholic Church did not tell me so.
As I said, 50% of the world lives on less than a dollar a day. If you make $2 a day, you are twice as wealthy than a majority of the planet.
DIdn't Jesus say you would be blessed if you follow his advice/suggestions/commands?
Do you believe in Jesus or not? Don't you trust his words?
What I have is what I am given by Him. I am merely the steward of it. I have been given the responsibility of raising a family. Granted I have been given much, but I have others dependent upon me for food, shelter, education, medical care. That family is my primary community and my primary responsibility which I've been assigned leadership of by God. Raising my family is the lion's share of the work God has assigned me. Believe me, my $100 a day (before taxes) really doens't go very far when divvied up six ways.
I am blessed, and I trust implicitly, albeit imperfectly in Jesus Christ.
You act as if sinning is just something you do, can't help and have little reason to stop without even trying. By your logic a murderer can just keep killing, shrug and say "meh, that's what the church is for."
Not so. Sinning is something I do, something I cannot help. I am forgiven out of God's infinite mercy and conditional on having a firm purpose of amendment.
Ah, but I do have an interest. Salvation is not a gift of God to individuals, but is offered to us all, collectively. I work to alleviate the suffering of others because they are created in the image of God as I am. I am "my brother's keeper". That is one of the first teachings of the Scriptures. It ain't all about me.
BTW, IF Xpianity is true, I am going to Hell as are many people you know, even many of the people you think are good Xpians. I am sure though, that once you make it to Heaven you will not worry about that and praise your God - and yourself for being clever to pick the right religion.
I am guaranteed nothing. I hope for Heaven, but wouldn't presume to place myself there. Faith alone is not sufficient, I must do the work of God. St. James tells us that even the demons believe, but they are nor saved. One can do the work of God without knowledge of Him. Don't sell yourself short.
Yes, you were more prolific this time. Thank you. However, I now wonder how much of a Xpian you are, since you don't seem to be arguing very strongly for it (As Paul said you should, btw....)
Every word I've written has been a defense of what I believe (exactly as St. Peter admonished us to do). There is more to the Gospel thatn what is written in the Bible. Besides, what good would spewing Bible verses at you be?
Anyhow, my central point is that science is a man-made process in which we learn little things about our universe. It's such a minor thing if you are xpian
Science is a gift of God granted to us throught the gift of intellect by which God reveals the workings of the universe he created to us. It is major, and it is a wonder.
Did Jesus ever say one thing about science? Did he mention that scholarly pursuits were valuable at all? No.
You're right, He didn't. As St. Augustine tells us "One does not read in the Gospel that the Lord said: 'I will send you the Paraclete who will teach you about the course of the sun and moon.' For He willed to make them Christians, not mathematicians." Science wasn't His mission.
Moreover, you claim to believe in god and Jesus (but for some reason won't talk about other central figures of the supernatural world: Satan and angels, which is odd since it says in the Bible that Jesus even met Satan: was it a lie?), but you don't make it the most important thing in your life.
There hasn't been a call to talk about Satan. Whatcha wanna know about that subject?
The focus of my life is the service of Our Lord Jesus Christ through the service of others. I believe I've made that quite clear.
Again, I hope I've addressed all the issues you wanted. You seem to be reading an awful lot of things I'm not saying into what I've written. if we can focus on one or two specific issues it might help.
Thanks for the engaging and stimulating conversation.
"With its enduring appeal to the search for truth, philosophy has the great responsibility of forming thought and culture; and now it must strive resolutely to recover its original vocation." Pope John Paul II