The End of Science
Posted on: August 10, 2008 - 7:45pm
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The End of Science
Hi,
What will you do if science ends and you still can't prove God didn't create the universe and life?
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If at first an idea does not sound absurd, then there is no hope for it ~Albert Einstein
We all think your idea is crazy, the question is "Is it crazy enough?" ~Niels Bohr
Pineapple, your picture doesn't work.
Well science will only end when all the questions regarding the natural world and universe are answered.....since that isn't going to happen in my life time it doesn't matter. However the christian god as per the bible.....doesn't exist, nor does allah or most gods so far described by holy texts.
How exactly would science end?
If we somehow found out every thing about the universe which could be observed and checked in some way, ie the stuff of science, and God still didn't appear to have been detected, that would certainly confirm that there was even less reason to believe in something whose existence has never come close to being clearly demonstrated, let alone proved.
I think we can safely also assume that since we would also not have been able to prove that there was not a porcelain teapot in orbit around a star in the Andromeda galaxy, therefore that must be true too...
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
TO EVERYONE WHO HAS RESPONDED
By "the end of science", I meant the point at which nothing more can be discovered about the universe. This could happen if (a) we discover everything OR (b) we hit some sort of Godel's-Theorem-style wall which prohibits us from figuring anything else out. If "b" happened, and we hit a wall such that you could not disprove the idea that God created the universe or life, what would you do?
That there is no evidence for god period, as such there is no requirement to believe in him, again, the god of the bible doesn't exist. Now einsteins god, I can't disprove at all.
Is it not you who has spoken of the Problem of Induction? And yet you now claim that there will come a time when science will be certain that they know everything there is to know?
How very droll.
{fixed link -aiia}
Credulity is much easier to sustain when we've been taught that facts are things to be memorized and repeated, rather than sought out and discovered.
-- Me
What counts is what evidence is there to show something DOES exist, AND that it is a better explanation, ie fits the evidence and is more consistent with all the other stuff that we have found seems to be true.
So where is your case FOR God?
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
We'll have to find more science so we can continue to put off accepting the fundamental truths of the universe known to people who thought the sky was full of water and secured with a beaten metal dome.
Since I can't disprove it now, what would change? I also can't disprove the idea that invisible space monkeys created the universe or life. It doesn't alter my behaviour.
Will: no gyration without funkstification.
What, the one made out of transparent aluminum? I thought everyone knew that.
Will: no gyration without funkstification.
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
No one has to disprove that your god thing created the universe, nor does anyone have to disprove that there is such a thing.
Try to get it in your brain that it is you who has to prove that your god thing even exists and also prove it created the universe and until then, your god thing is a figment of your imagination.
§§That fact that I cannot prove the nonexistence of a thing called god is inconsequential and nugatory because nonexistence cannot be proven of anything.§§
Well, here's the thing: I'm not the one trying to add an element to the data. You are. Right now, there is no data that demonstrates evidence for God. As long as that remains true, there will still be no reason to believe in God. So why should I alter my actions or beliefs in anyway?
After all, you can't, as we sit here, prove that I didn't create the universe and life. Plan on worshiping me? Sending 10% of your income to me?
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
It seems like science "concluding" (pretending that there will ever be less we don't know about the universe than do) and not coming up with a deity would be pretty bad for the deity.
Now how long do we go before we mention shifting the burden of proof? Oops.
If science "ends"? What if math ends? What if engineering ends? What if logic ends? What then? I think we'd all be FUCKED. Just my two cents. Whether god existed or not would be the last thing on my mind. I'd be too busy trying not to explode into billions of tiny hula hoop dancers from Hawaii.
Wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first.
Hey now, I'm just playing by the theist's rules, Mag. Let's see him prove that I'm not the Creator.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
I want to counter-propose the end of religion. Once the world's faiths shoot their collective wads, and the hapless and unrewarded credulity of the masses has been exhausted, what trifling and perfectly meaningless and rhetorical positions will continue to divide us?
Hi P, it's me god. I am what I am, just as you, just as the dirt, as all is one. I have no problem with this word spelled g-o-d. I have major fucking problems with idol worship separatism, as is religion of dogma. Religion is retarded, dangerous, embarrassing, etc etc etc >>>
Please type for me your prayer to your god, so that I might understand your idol of worship. Help me, save me .... "love the enemy" ....
Boxers or briefs?
Domino's or Pizza Hut?
Coke or Pepsi?
Mets or Yankees?
Giants or Jets?
Islanders or Rangers?
Knicks or Nets?
(Can you tell I'm a New Yorker? Oh! Right!)
North or South?
East or West?
Post-Apocalyptic Wasteland Nomad or Post-Economic-Collapse Agrarianism?
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
Hey Presup,
I'm willing to live with "I don't know all the answers but I'm going to keep looking". Why are you settling for "God did it! Yay! I don't have to think anymore!"?
The journey is often worth more than the destination.
Reminds me of the classic Asimov short story "The Last Question":
http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
WWSD - What Would Scooby Doo?
Less Filling - Tastes Great?
Credulity is much easier to sustain when we've been taught that facts are things to be memorized and repeated, rather than sought out and discovered.
-- Me
Hehe, no that's the ETERNAL question! Have you read the Asimov story Hamby? If not, you really should. It's one of the all time classics in my opinion.
WWSD - What Would Scooby Doo?
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
I bet it's nowhere near as good as anything Stephen King wrote.
Wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first.
I did invite god off its' high horse perch to come down and chat about how it created everything, but it didn't show up.... go figure. So I guess as long as science is around we can use it to ponder why there is something rather than nothing. Religion will keep offering its' adherents some sort of comfort, science will go about trying to piece together what really happened and everybody will be just peachy.
I really wish god would show itself, then there would be no need for such a silly question. Besides if you understood science can't answer questions dealing with the super-natural you wouldn't ask just either. Might want to pick up a real science book at some point and stop buying into the propaganda of the religious institutions about what science can and cannot answer.
"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS
Touche Jello
WWSD - What Would Scooby Doo?
Asimov's The last question is a great short story based on what would happen if we (or our creations) discovered a way to reverse entropy. It's got a great twist in the tale and I think remains one of the best thought experiments he produced.
However, back to the original question:
If we discovered everything knowable about science (or as much as is possible) and still found no evidence for a god - then we have all the evidence we need that there is no god - or at least not one that has any effect on our material universe. We could safely say that a god has never had an impact on our world - isn't that a more powerful argument than for the existance of a god?
Say we got to that stage - would you still pray to him to keep your family safe? Would you still believe he'd do anything to help you?
Ian
Why do you waste your time thinking of stupid questions?
Dur! What if God made its presence know to everyone and said: "I just came into existence this moment, had nothing to do with making anything, and certainly had nothing to do with Jesus and I am going to make myself not exist and will never come back. Right. Now."(*poof*) ?
You know what? Presup would still believe in the Jesus God. As would most idiots.
Gee! Lets spend hours of our finite life pondering these things!
Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov
Godel's theorem - ur doin' it rong
imaginary circumstances beget imaginary conclusions
p.s. still calling poe on this guy
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Subvert the Dominant Paradigm