I have been brainwashed... and i like it. [YOU RESPOND]

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I have been brainwashed... and i like it. [YOU RESPOND]

 

From: justcauseimfroster@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: [General Question] i have a been brainwashed...
 

Justin sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

...... and i like it.

I fail to understand how you think theism is a mental disorder.
Just to let you understand me a little, I am a Christian and I am not
ashamed of that fact. I can not see how reason conflicts with the
supernatural.  My defense of my faith is simple that: it is faith. I can
give reasonable support for my faith, yet I must believe in what can not
be seen (i.e., the supernatural). I believe in a personal God that is
actively work in people's lives. I would assume that atheism is the
belief/religion of not believing in the supernatural.  Personally I
believe that humanity is flawed. If you need proof just read a newspaper.
And because of this inherent  flaw we are all twisted or blend toward
evil. Humanity at its nature will be evil unless some supernatural force
intervenes.  And is there supernatural forces of good and evil? I would
say yes. That is my position on faith and religion, I would like to
understand your postion.

Justin H.

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There is no evidence for

There is no evidence for anything supernatural. Most victims of brainwashing are happy about it until they overcome it....

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Justin wrote:I can not see

Justin wrote:
I can not see how reason conflicts with the
supernatural.

 

Come now, we all know reason and the supernatural do not go hand-in-hand.  Reason, for the most part, tries to disprove or discredit the supernatural.

 

Justin wrote:
Humanity at its nature will be evil unless some supernatural force
intervenes.

 

I disagree.  Although human beings, admittedly, are not the nicest people out there, I do not believe they are inherently evil.  We make conscious decisions which either lead us to good or bad actions.  It is our ability to reason, and not supernatural intervention, that steers us in the direction of "good" or "evil."

Tickling Sakura's Funnybone

thingy wrote:

David wrote:
Actually, thousands of people witnessed his existence on earth, and many testified to his existence in the pages of the Bible.

That's true, just as there's thousands of people who witnessed Harry Potter's existence on earth in the Harry Potter series of books.

mrjonno wrote:
I will drink to the Flying Spaghetti Monster and hope his appendages touch you in the most pleasurable of ways

HisWillness wrote:
Keep it in Your pants, saviour boy.


jcgadfly
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When Christians talk about

When Christians talk about the "inherent evil" of humanity, it's a way to absolve themselves of the bad stuff they do.

 

My opinion only, your mileage may vary.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Belief in god does not

Belief in god does not necessarily constitute a mental disorder, however, believing in dragons, unicorns and talking donkeys does. We all have to have a certain amount of "faith" because we can't know everything. I just can't see why anyone would put faith in something they've never met. Do you have enought faith in your god to quit your job and sell all your possessions to go to Iraq to witness? I bet the answer is no and the atheist is the problem here?

I am an atheist and unashamed to admit that so......... does that leave us at an impasse? If you are waiting on god to come and solve the world's problems you will be waiting for a train that ain't coming so stop the silly prayer all ready.

No, there are not supernatural forces of good and evil. These are just concepts silly humans made up to make themselves feel better. I didn't do it, the devil made me LOL. Or look at how much better I am than those evil atheists, pick one.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


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I believe that there is much

I believe that there is much about life that humans still do not understand.  To claim that one has the answers to every question about life due to some book is false and irrational.  To then impose those answers onto others (as religions advocate) is dangerous and ultimately a violation of my right to life.   Admitting one does not have the answers can be scary and/or a blow to the ego, but making up explanations and passing them off as truth hurts us all.

I believe that many of the flaws you see in human beings are rooted in the lack of responsibility for ones thought process.  I think this world would be a very different place if people were encouraged to think for themselves rather than obtain moral guidance from mythology.  I do realize that not everyone is up to this task though and do not expect this to happen anytime soon.

You certainly have the right to believe what you want.  However, when you begin to decide that others must accept these beliefs as truth and mandate the direction of their lives based on these beliefs, that is simply unacceptable. 


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jcgadfly wrote:When

jcgadfly wrote:

When Christians talk about the "inherent evil" of humanity, it's a way to absolve themselves of the bad stuff they do.

 

My opinion only, your mileage may vary.

Oh no, I quite agree ^^

A lot of bad shit [pardon my French] has gone down in the name of religion.  And the committers of said bad shit will insist they did it only out of goodness.

Tickling Sakura's Funnybone

thingy wrote:

David wrote:
Actually, thousands of people witnessed his existence on earth, and many testified to his existence in the pages of the Bible.

That's true, just as there's thousands of people who witnessed Harry Potter's existence on earth in the Harry Potter series of books.

mrjonno wrote:
I will drink to the Flying Spaghetti Monster and hope his appendages touch you in the most pleasurable of ways

HisWillness wrote:
Keep it in Your pants, saviour boy.


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response

"I can not see how reason conflicts with the
supernatural."

It conflicts because it is not reasonable to accept extraordinary claims when there is no evidence to do so. When you accept claims like these on faith it lays a poor foundation for critical thinking.


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"My defense of my faith is

"My defense of my faith is simply that: it is faith"

So your defense is that you have faith in your faith? Not a very strong argument for someone who's trying to get people on the other side of the spectrum to understand them and where they're coming from.

 

 

 

I formulate opinions based on sandwiches I've had.


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Argument from personal

Argument from personal incredulity.


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Quote:I fail to understand

Quote:



I fail to understand how you think theism is a mental disorder.

Actually, to be honest, you haven't bothered to learn why we consider it a disorder. I'll demonstrate this as we go along.

Quote:

Just to let you understand me a little, I am a Christian and I am not
ashamed of that fact. I can not see how reason conflicts with the
supernatural.
Quote:

Then you've not learned what reason or 'supernatural' mean.

Reason is the faculty that incorporates rational and empirical methods to further awareness. These are natural processes

"supernatural' is a reference to 'something' beyond nature, ergo beyond empiricism and ration, ergo beyond reason.

So its actually definitional to say that anything 'defined' as 'supernatural' is beyond reason.

So, one has a choice: either learn this, or stay willfully ignorant so you can go on wondering why you can't reason about something defined as beyond reason.

Fortunately, christianity actually holds that it is moral to remain willfully ignorant, provided it allows you to hold to christian beliefs.


 

My defense of my faith is simple that: it is faith.

Then your defense is that you don't have a defense. However, luck you! -  the fact that you don't even bother to work out what faith, is allows you to never realize this.

So you get to believe that saying "I have no reason, but I have my faith" is the same as saying "I have no reason, but I have no reason!"

Starting to see why theism is a mind disorder yet?

Quote:

I can give reasonable support for my faith

Justin H.

Then you wouldn't have faith, you'd have reasons.

Faith is  belief without reasonable support.  That's what you imply when you use the word, but allowing yourself to remain ignorant of this, you can always turn to your confusion and pretend that belief without reason can somehow be reasonable.

Other than schizophrenia, I know of no other mind disorder that openly makes it a good thing to accept contradictions and willful ignorance.

 

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

Books on atheism.


todangst
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EvalutionNow wrote:"My

EvalutionNow wrote:

"My defense of my faith is simply that: it is faith"

So your defense is that you have faith in your faith? Not a very strong argument for someone who's trying to get people on the other side of the spectrum to understand them and where they're coming from.

 

Aha! But what if he has faith in faith in faith? Then what, atheist?!

Does it remind you of the idea that the world rests on the back of giant turtles?

 

 

 

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

Books on atheism.


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Ok, lets conduct a poll

Ok, lets conduct a poll here.  Do you as an atheist BBQ kittens? Yes or no?

I'll start off......I do not believe in Allah/Osirus/Jesus/or Thor and I DO NOT BBQ kittens.

How about all you other atheists? Do you BBQ kittens?

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Kittens are best microwaved,

Kittens are best microwaved, the BBQ tends to scorch the tender flesh

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_zpdyBz3VM

 

 

 

 


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justcauseimfroster

justcauseimfroster wrote:
 

 i have a been brainwashed...
 ...... and i like it.

Ignorance is bliss.

justcauseimfroster wrote:
 


I would assume that atheism is the
belief/religion of not believing in the supernatural. 

No. It the non belief in extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence. Are you part of the belief/religion of not believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy? Please understand we put Yahweh, Jesus and the Holy Spirit into the same category at these myth stories. The bible is to us like Mother Goose is to you.

justcauseimfroster wrote:
 

Personally I
believe that humanity is flawed. If you need proof just read a newspaper.
And because of this inherent  flaw we are all twisted or blend toward
evil. Humanity at its nature will be evil unless some supernatural force
intervenes.  And is there supernatural forces of good and evil? I would
say yes. That is my position on faith and religion, I would like to
understand your postion.

Fine so you think people will be more moral and the world is better for having religion. This is zero reason to 'believe'. We can debate if being deluded with religion makes people more moral. Some children act better if they think Santa is watching and will bring them presents, but this is not a reason for a rational adult to 'believe' the bible.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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justcauseimfroster@hotmail.co

justcauseimfroster wrote:
My defense of my faith is simple that: it is faith. I can give reasonable support for my faith,

If you can give reasons for your belief, then you obviously do not need faith, since faith is contra reason. "Reasonable faith" is an oxymoron!

 

justcauseimfroster wrote:
yet I must believe in what can not be seen (i.e., the supernatural).

Why must you?

 

justcauseimfroster wrote:
I believe in a personal God that is actively work in people's lives.

Based on what?

 

justcauseimfroster wrote:
I would assume that atheism is the belief/religion of not believing in the supernatural.

No, atheism is the justified rejection of god. No beliefs necessary.

 

justcauseimfroster wrote:
Personally I believe that humanity is flawed. If you need proof just read a newspaper. And because of this inherent flaw we are all twisted or blend toward evil. Humanity at its nature will be evil unless some supernatural force intervenes.

Do you not see the contradiction here?

You say humanity in its nature will be evil, unless there is a god that intervenes. You also maintain that there is evil (just look an a newspaper, you say), which would imply there is no intervening god, yet you still maintain that god exists.

Using your own words:

Premise 1: "Humanity at its nature will be evil unless some supernatural force intervenes."

Premise 2: "Personally I believe that humanity is flawed. ... And because of this inherent flaw we are all twisted or blend toward evil."

So in premise 2 you state we are evil, therefore, via the first premise, god does not intervene! (Unless you wish to maintain god DOES intervene, and we still remain evil, but then this just contradicts your entire argument!)

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" -- Carl Sagan