The Art of Bashing [YOU RESPOND]

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The Art of Bashing [YOU RESPOND]

From: MichelinMan2772@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:56 PM
Subject: [Defend my God!] The Art of Bashing

 

Anthony Andrews sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

A few years ago I met a gentleman named Christopher at a church meeting. I
spoke with Christopher and his wife for about an hour and within that hour
learned a special lesson. The lesson that I found almost immediately came
from the fact that Christopher used to be a ardent atheist. Since about the
age of 10 he had not believed in God, and felt a similar sense of
opprobrium that is felt by many other atheists that I have met in my
lifetime. I asked him what would convert someone as ardent as he into
someone who would come to walk with God. He said that there were many
things, but the first thing that changed his mind, and his heart, was the
reality of the tiresome feeling he had as a result of his beliefs. The
constant disdain, the constant will of "proving people wrong" and the
invective that was a bi-product of it.
He told me that his father had spoken to him about the validity of an
argument. Validity he said, was as much about posture as it was facts.
Human beings can invalidate the most cogent argument by acting in a manner
unbecoming someone with knowledge and erudition. Christians, Doctors,
Politicians and yes, even Atheists invalidate their arguments through their
posture. They do so through their pretense and condescension. Christ's
commandment was that we love one another. Not disparage, or ridicule or
"bash". Does  condescension validate a point of view? Whether it be of
faith or otherwise? Absolutely not! An animal does not live to be beaten,
nor should people be ridiculed for what we believe. That includes you as
well as I. My faith calls for me to live by a higher standard. To approach
dissent with grace. I only wish that more people, of faith or otherwise
would do the same. For the same love that was evident on Calvary is the
only remedy for what ills our world today. We should not live in the
shadows of pretense believing that the answers lye within us. But rather
walk in the light of Christ forever aware of what he commanded for all of
mankind. To simply love one another.

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mrjonno
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If you are a genuine

If you are a genuine christian your very nature is to bash others. Its message is hatred, genocide , violence  child abuse, bigotry, fear , ignorance and generally being really annoying.

If christians just stuck to the 'being very annoying' to consenting adults I would be quite happy to leave them alone however you don't and therefore have to be dealt with.

True christianity (and islam judaism etc)  is evil and anyone who doesnt confront it is aiding it

 

 

 


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

Anthony Andrews sent a message :

I...learned a special lesson. The lesson that I found almost immediately came
from the fact that Christopher used to be a ardent atheist."

Personally I have heard a significant number of 'former atheist' stories.  Like your's, they are generally 2nd/3rd hand as far as testimony goes, and while they might sound fine in a Chick tract or from a pulpit they are insufficient for ... validity.

Quote:
  Since about the age of 10 he had not believed in God, and felt a similar sense of opprobrium that is felt by many other atheists ...

Noting that the use of "opprobrium" in your statement is ambiguous.

Quote:
  Validity he said, was as much about posture as it was facts.

He misinformed.  The validity of an argument is based on it's use of reason, logic, and adherence to fact.

Quote:

Human beings can invalidate the most cogent argument by acting in a manner
unbecoming someone with knowledge and erudition. Christians, Doctors,
Politicians and yes, even Atheists invalidate their arguments through their
posture.

Nah.  That is, there may be ways to engender acceptance of an argument, e.g. buttkissing, pandering, compassion, however this does not reflect on the validity of an argument.  Noting that many invalid arguments have been advance with sincerity and empathy by christians, doctors, politicians, and yes even atheists.

Quote:
  Christ's commandment was that we love one another."

If I recall, that was just one of Christ's/God's commandments.  The OT has it's share, including BTW the one you mention.  The NT-Jesus/God adds more.

Noting that Bible-Jesus said to give up all your wealth, for example, and make no plans for tomorrow.  He said to hate your parents and siblings, he said go buy a sword.   IF one holds Paul as divinely inspired by Jesus/God, then one also notes a number of further commandments from Jesus.  Subordinate women to be as far below men as men are below God, for example.  Don't have long hair.  Consider castrating yourself and pluck out your eye and cut off your hand.

The big command behind it all is to behave slavishly to Bible-Jesus, or else he will send his angels to gather you up and toss you in a fire.

Quote:
Not disparage, or ridicule or "bash". Does  condescension validate a point of view?

If condescension validated a view then Jesus's presentations would surely be validated.  Imho, his presentation was not validated due to content, not to the fact that he was a 'do as I say, not as I do' type person when it came to disparagement, ridicule, and bashing.

Quote:
  Absolutely not! An animal does not live to be beaten, nor should people be ridiculed for what we believe.

There is no reason, however, to hold irrational or stupid ideas as being above ridicule. 

Quote:
  For the same love that was evident on Calvary is the only remedy for what ills our world today.

The story in the Bible indicates this is a  false love.  Bible-God set up the abusive situation, Bible-God demanded a human/blood sacrifice.  Bible-God passes blame on to those who did not commit the 'crime' of fruit picking and judges the whole of humanity guilty.  Then Bible-God insists on killing an 'innocent' in the stead of the Guilty.  No love, no justice, no mercy.

Quote:
  ... But rather walk in the light of Christ forever aware of what he commanded for all of mankind. To simply love one another.

BTW Bible-Jesus Christ did not command all mankind.  Bible Jesus just spoke to a handful of superstitious humans about a significant amount of banality.  Heck, he didn't even pass on hand washing, which is something that really would have alleviated a tremendous amount of suffering.

tq


magilum
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 Gross. You've got

 Gross. You've got desperate sleaze coming out of your pores. I picture you as a plaid-engulfed AmWay salesman; the difference being that AmWay stuff can actually work sometimes. Your "higher standard" is a conceit that makes sincere humility impossible for you. You're a caricature of an elevated being, with your eyes cast comically skyward and your nose perpetually out of joint.


Brian37
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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

From: MichelinMan2772@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:56 PM
Subject: [Defend my God!] The Art of Bashing

 

Anthony Andrews sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

A few years ago I met a gentleman named Christopher at a church meeting. I
spoke with Christopher and his wife for about an hour and within that hour
learned a special lesson. The lesson that I found almost immediately came
from the fact that Christopher used to be a ardent atheist. Since about the
age of 10 he had not believed in God, and felt a similar sense of
opprobrium that is felt by many other atheists that I have met in my
lifetime. I asked him what would convert someone as ardent as he into
someone who would come to walk with God. He said that there were many
things, but the first thing that changed his mind, and his heart, was the
reality of the tiresome feeling he had as a result of his beliefs. The
constant disdain, the constant will of "proving people wrong" and the
invective that was a bi-product of it.
He told me that his father had spoken to him about the validity of an
argument. Validity he said, was as much about posture as it was facts.
Human beings can invalidate the most cogent argument by acting in a manner
unbecoming someone with knowledge and erudition. Christians, Doctors,
Politicians and yes, even Atheists invalidate their arguments through their
posture. They do so through their pretense and condescension. Christ's
commandment was that we love one another. Not disparage, or ridicule or
"bash". Does  condescension validate a point of view? Whether it be of
faith or otherwise? Absolutely not! An animal does not live to be beaten,
nor should people be ridiculed for what we believe. That includes you as
well as I. My faith calls for me to live by a higher standard. To approach
dissent with grace. I only wish that more people, of faith or otherwise
would do the same. For the same love that was evident on Calvary is the
only remedy for what ills our world today. We should not live in the
shadows of pretense believing that the answers lye within us. But rather
walk in the light of Christ forever aware of what he commanded for all of
mankind. To simply love one another.

Your "faith" requires you to lie. This "atheist" wasn't much of one even if we took your word for it. Having an emotional reaction to life is NOT a reason to be a Christian or atheist. Your friend merely succumed to slick marketing. And as immuned to sales tactics humans would like to think they are, we are all still human.

If you have any guts, you would invite this "atheist" here and let them discribe themselves without your emotional appeal, "you too can be if you really want too", Yea, I could become a Christian, or a Muslim, but I could also staple my nuts to the wall, doesn't mean it is a good idea.

All you have proven is that a human being can change positions and it happens all the time. Muslims become Christians, Christians become Muslims, Christians become atheists and vice versa.

What you don't have is a falsifiable, testable model of HOW(NOT WHO YOU CLAIM) BUT HOW 3 day old dead human flesh survives rigor mortis. What you don't have is ghost sperm. And I doubt your "atheist" friend did anything more than fall into an emotional trap.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Nordmann
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Quote: I asked him what

Quote:

 

I asked him what would convert someone as ardent as he into
someone who would come to walk with God. He said that there were many
things, but the first thing that changed his mind, and his heart, was the
reality of the tiresome feeling he had as a result of his beliefs. The
constant disdain, the constant will of "proving people wrong" and the
invective that was a bi-product of it.

 

Hi Anthony. It seems your friend Chris just didn't have the stamina, especially when you say that he admitted he found himself tired and snappy. Atheism can be a lonely and demanding business, what with rational people in such short supply and delusional fools in the majority. Poor guy - having to opt to wade back in with the superstition-brigade for the sake of his mental health. How cruel life can be sometimes.

 

Quote:

 

Validity he said, was as much about posture as it was facts.
Human beings can invalidate the most cogent argument by acting in a manner
unbecoming someone with knowledge and erudition.

 

What a foolish man Chris's father was (christian, was he?). He said the complete opposite of the truth in both sentences and poor Chris, already hopelessly tired out from defending his reason, gave in to that claptrap too. The only people who I am actually aware of who DO try to invalidate cogent arguments in a manner totally unbecoming someone with knowledge and erudition are ... well, you know yourself. You seem to be a practitioner of the art.

 

Quote:

Does  condescension validate a point of view? Whether it be of
faith or otherwise? Absolutely not!

 

That's faith fucked so. You've just ruled out the weapon used most extensively in propagating it.

 

Quote:

But rather
walk in the light of Christ forever aware of what he commanded for all of
mankind. To simply love one another.

 

You don't have to walk in anyone's "light", not even that of a fictional guru, to do that. In fact you should try being non-condescending, decent, generous, kind and empathic just for the hell of it and off your own bat. You'll feel much better for it, not having to credit your own will to be humanistic to a phantom deity. Trust me.

 

Give Chris my regards. Tell him rationality awaits his return and - it being what it is - it will never condemn him for his absence. Hope he gets better soon.

I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy


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Big deal, everyone is an

Big deal, everyone is an atheist until indoctrinated by society. I was an atheist, a born agin fundy baptist and an atheist again. People go through periods of conversion and deconversion all the time this is nothing new that you are bringing to the table. I can send you many examples of clergymen giving up on religion and you offer an example of someone "seeing the light" WOW. At 10 years old I seriously doubt  that this gentleman had any real idea what true atheism was. It does make for a good touchy-feely story however. He just had not been indoctrinated by his family is all.

I agree whole heartedly that we ALL need to practice patience and love. However, if I say that jesus did not die on calvary because there is no proof he did that is not being hateful. I can't even begin to tell you how often theists bash atheists for a belief in evolution. Respect begets respect in all areas of life. If a theist comes in making statements in absolution then gets upset because their beliefs are not accepted as fact many cry about it. This is not hate. True many atheists mock christians, I have done it myself, but this is the pot calling the kettle black.

Validity can be discredited with posture, but this lies on a perception. If by validity you mean truth then no it cannot be invalidated. Does the preacher screaming from the pulpit make the message any more real? If you say something over and over again does it make a lie the truth? A valid argument stands on facts/logic and not how the facts are presented.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


EXC
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MichelinMan2772 wrote: But

MichelinMan2772 wrote:

 But rather
walk in the light of Christ forever aware of what he commanded for all of
mankind. To simply love one another.

Why does mankind need the fear of hell and the promise of heaven in order to 'love on another'? Is that really love or is that the equivilent of putting a gun to someone's head? I don't want to be around people that "love" only because of fear or promise of reward. I want to live in a world where people do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because of superstitious BS.

Are you capable of loving anyone without heaven and hell and a belief in a fairy tale? How sad.

 

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca