The Truth About Hell [YOU RESPOND]

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The Truth About Hell [YOU RESPOND]

From: jmcjr06@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:37 PM
Subject: [Defend my God!] The Truth About HELL

Jorge Cruz sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

For hundreds of years the Christian church has been teaching a false
doctrine that that hell burns forever. Hell is one of the topic that is
most misunderstood by the entire Christian community. But I don’t say it
because what my denomination believes but what the Bible says. The Bible
says Hell doesn’t burn forever. The problem is people look at the Bible
like something you just read, look at one verse then BAM! That is what God
does. No, if you are going to study a topic, if we are going to see what
God means, one must look at what the Bible says in its entirety. As matter
of fact the Bible say to look at God’s word “line upon line precept
upon precept” Isaiah 28:13. If you want to study about Hell fire, eternal
fire etc. you have to study everything the Bible say about hell before
making any accusations. To help with what I said let me give  just a few
examples. A big reason why Christians say that hell burns forever because
of many verses but the most compelling is this one. Revelation 20:10 “
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and
brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be
tormented day and night forever and ever”. In a nutshell the term
forever, according to the Bible, is a relative term. When the wicked are
destroyed the result of the fire destroying them will be forever or there
non-existence will last forever. Now, how can i prove that.  A place in the
Bible where eternal fire is used is in book of Jude describing Sodom and
Gomorrah.   Jude 1:7 “ Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about
them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after
strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of
eternal fire”. If read the Sodom and Gomorrah story they said that they
were destroyed with fire and brimstone. Is Sodom and Gomorrah burning
today? of course not. But in 2 Peter 2:6 it says they were ashes, “And
turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an
overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live
ungodly;” You have heard that only the righteous get eternal life, but if
people are alive in hell forever and ever. Then do the wicked have eternal
life? Yes, It just as “nice” as the righteous eternal. No the Bible
said they will be no more. The purpose of hell is to get rid of the evil in
this world. This was just really quick, very small proof that fire
doesn’t burn forever. There are many more scriptures. I know many
atheists get angry because they think God is tyrant that burns people
forever. I challenge you to think, is that rational? Someone who burns
people forever for something that they only did for a couple of years. Many
atheists are turned off by Christianity not because they know the truth but
because most of them here the many popular Christian concepts that are not
Biblical. Which is sad because its in the church. Think like you believe in
God for a quick second, in Christianity there are going to be a type of
Christianity that is true and a Christianity that is false that is not
Biblical. A quick example why do Christians follow Sunday as the Sabbath
when the 4th commandment  say the seventh-day which is Sabbath. (My church
follows the Saturday like the Bible says)  They just think there Biblical
because they read one verse and boom! they are Biblical. Many things
atheist say I agree with and I side with you with, me a Christian. But my
friend we need to study and see what the Bible really says than if you
don’t believe than that’s your belief. But you can’t base you
disbelief about God when they are not true. Test them against the Bible,
not just reading the Bible but studying the Bible. There atheist that hate
God because they don’t know the truth about what he really says. I ask
you to please listen to this, it is a sermon by Pastor David Asscherick
speaking the whole truth about  the truth about hell. I ask to base your
defense against the Christian faith on this by Biblical truth.

PLEASE LISTEN: THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT HELL, it will clear!

<
http://petra.bme.emory.edu/bible/hvm/da/h4th_64/17-Revelations_Lake_of_Fire-The_Good_News_About_Hell.mp3
>

Please when you read this and listen to the sermon, please right me back


PS. Its sad you have a hate mail section. Any Christians who writes hate
mail is a hypocrite. You guys don't deserve that. I apologize on there
behalf.

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Naturally Hell doesn't burn

Naturally Hell doesn't burn forever since there is no hell.  For hell to exist it would have to be physical since the chemical properties of combustion require matter in order to release energy as heat.  For our "souls" to experience pain in this fire our souls would have to have a working nervous system, hence our need to be alive since the very element of our being dead is having a non-working nervous system.

To date no apologist has ever given us a location of hell.

Is hell a closed system or an open one?  Given us a location will answer that.  If it is a closed system then it falls prey to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and, without a constant fuel source, will eventually burn out.  An open system would have to be quite sizable in order to be burning for eternity therefore it should be quite visible.  Since it isn't visible it's safe to say that there is no hell since it either burnt out, or is just too small to bother with.

So, as an Atheist, I don't worry about hell.  Not because of some notion that it is a temporary eternal hell, but simply because it's existence is quite impossible.


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Hell

The problem I have with hell is how it's used as a model for punishment in many judicial systems.  Jails are often modeled to be like a hell, a place you can't escape from and filled with other "sinners".  I guess the stories of the horrible things that happen to people in prison is supposed to be a deterrent, but crime has not stopped.  In the United States, we boast the highest percentage of prisoners compared to our population.

Hell just doesn't work. It's a broken concept. An incessant fire is a perpetual motion machine.  Its implementation on earth doesn't work either.  So I say it's time to find a better alternative. NO MORE HELL!

Remember how you figured out there is no Santa? Well, their god is just like Santa. They just haven’t figured out he’s not real yet.


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http://www.rationalresponders.com/is_hell_exothermic_gives_off_heat_or_endothermic_absorbs_heat

This message comes from a graduate of the Univerisity of Oklahoma Chemical Engineering Department via an acquaintance of mine who sends out a "Daily Silly" to a large group of people. It cites one of Dr.Schlambaugh's final test questions for his final exam for 1997. [Note: Dr. Schlambaugh is known for asking questions on his finals like:"Why do airplanes fly?"] This was an "actual question" given on a University of Washington chemistry midterm.

Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Support your answer with proof.

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant.

One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So, we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for temperature and the pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until All Hell breaks loose.
2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?
If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Therese Banyan during my Freshman year, that "It will be a cold night in Hell before I sleep with you", and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in that area, then (2) cannot be true, and so Hell is exothermic.

This student got the only A.

- Brian Sapient


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Found another email from the

Found another email from the same guy....

 

Jorge Cruz sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

if there is no God, why do atheist want disprove something that they don't
even believe in? If you don't believe in God  whats the fuss?

- Brian Sapient


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Sapient wrote:Found another

Sapient wrote:

Found another email from the same guy....

 

Jorge Cruz sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

if there is no God, why do atheist want disprove something that they don't
even believe in? If you don't believe in God  whats the fuss?

 

The fuss, George of the Cross, is while we don't believe, we are treated with scorn and threatened by people who claim to love Jesus. i.e. the fuss is all most of us want to do is live our lives and theists don't let us do that without us almost constantly having to look over our shoulders and in our food lest some "well meaning" nut deprive us of our right to live.

Vote for McCain... www.therealmccain.com ...and he'll bring Jesus back


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Another email from the same

Another email from the same guy.... 

6-17-08

Jorge Cruz sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

A couple weeks ago I sent an email talking about the truth about hell.
Nobody has given me a response to the truth about hell. If you look at the
Bible in its WHOLE(not just one or two first verses) you will see that Hell
doesn't burn forever like many atheist protest against.  The reason why
people are atheist they have the wrong concepts and the wrong theology, and
also base the actions of so called “Christians” and attack the truth of
the Christian faith that’s found in the Bible. Just like Christians many
Atheist instead of studying the Bible for themselves, they go by what
priests and other people say about God instead of looking in the Bible
themselves. Anybody can say anything but what the Bible says stands, and if
one is going to attack the faith then they need to attack the source of
truth for the faith the Bible and what it really say. Also not just reading
the Bible but STUDYING what the Bible says, especially like the topic on
hell. I think the things is with most Atheism is that many people are tired
of the nominal Christianity. I’m a Christian and frankly I agree about
many things you say about Christianity. I think we are gravely mistaken in
many things and we are hypocrites. But please keep in mind there are good
Christians who are sincere and want to do good. If a Christian has done
something wrong then they go against God’s word, which is Christianity.
The Bible said not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will be saved, look
in the Bible Jesus rebukes fakes followers.  Many atheist are tired of this
nominal "Christianity" at times can be fake and especially the followers
can be fake. There are many false doctrine that the Bible (as a whole)
doesn't teach like: Secret Rapture, Sunday worship (fourth
commandment),prosperity sermons which scam people out there money, using
scare tactics to get people to hell. These doctrines are not Biblical and
what sad is people take other people words for it then look in the Bible as
its whole. There have been many causality and many other tragedy that the
church has done but the have gone away from the true word of God. For
examples the Catholics Church in the Middle Ages didn’t even use the
Bible. If you were caught with one you were killed they used the name
“God” and “Jesus” and use false doctrine like purgatory, hell burn
forever, penance, indulgence all these things they use to scam poor God
loving people. The Catholic Churched millions and millions of people were
slaughtered and tortured, you know who they were Christians who followed
the Bible. The Bible speaks about the Catholic Church and how it would do
that, that’s Bible Prophecy .  But I put this on my mortal life that no
atheist can present no case against TRUE Christianity. One might ask what
is true Christianity well its what the Bible says and of course following
it. If any body has anything comments let me know. Also response on hell
doesn’t burn forever.  Fake Christianity is tragedy true Christianity is
a refuge.

God Bless

 

- Brian Sapient


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Please use paragraphs. I

Please use paragraphs. I find it difficult to rummage through a verbal trash heap.

As for hell, I agree to an extent. My parents raised me as a fundamentalist thinking Hell would burn forever many people who remained conscious forever. As I matured, I studied the Bible, especially the doctrine of Hell. I contemplating the meaning of sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus, which translators often translate as Hell. I spent months tracing how many times the various biblical authors used those terms and how they used them. Eventually, I concluded that the fundamentalist, so-called literalist view was false. I still haven't decided on an exact interpretation yet. Does the fire incinerate the people, rendering them eternally unconscious? Or, does the fire purify them so they can enter heaven too? Both views seem to have support. The story of Sodom illustrates a support for the cessation of consciousness view. The numerous references to saving not some or not most but everyone supports the purification view. I think the texts might hint at the existence of two opposing schools of thought on the subject, just as there was two opposing schools of thought in ancient Judaism about the existence or nonexistence of an afterlife at all, though I haven't gotten around to doing further research on it.

Anyway, I ultimately left Christianity and looked into several forms of theism, ranging from the mystical theosophy to the practical deism. I considered myself a deist for a few weeks, which was how long it took for me to recognize that my acceptance of it was based on emotional credulity rather than rational justification. Hence, I abandoned all forms of theism.

My reasons for leaving Christianity had nothing to do with the fear of Hell. Even the liberal conceptions of Christianity did not work, because there is no rational justification for accepting it. Deism? No justification for that either. I see neither as a refuge of anything, except rational thought. I still use arguments against theists on the basis of such a horrible place. Why? Because it's a logical form of argument: if X, then Y. I use it to poke holes in people's worldviews to make them more skeptical about what they had adopted and what they might adopt in the future.

What justification (emotions and faith do not constitute justification) do you have for accepting the existence of a hell in any sense? If you cannot answer that question, I invite you to consider why you cannot.

Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:


Jorge  said:

For hundreds of years the Christian church has been teaching a false
doctrine that that hell burns forever.

 

Rather a strawman.  That is not the particular note.  Rather it is the promise that beings will be tortured forever.

Infinite, even.  Even if it is the ultimate bad guy.  That is, even torturing The Devil forever, is abhorrent.  There is no crime a finite being can perpetrate that deserves, by any rational concept of justice, infinite punishment.

This certainly includes a created being, created (supposedly) by a perfect being with total an perfect knowledge, who could somehow behave as an imperfect creation (i.e. created by an imperfect god) and rebell.

I.e. it ain't Satan who's the SOB here, it's Satan's Creator.

And it doesn't matter if unjust punishment, e.g. punishment because of what Adam did, lasts a minute or a year or eternity, i  inflicted on non involved parties is short or long, it's still unjust.

Bible God promises punishment (and delivers) to innocent parties.  Bible God is not justifiable.

Serious, OT and especially NT, Bible-God (aka Jesus) is a really nasty son of a virgin. (SOV)

Noting that the punishment if Hell is ephemeral, is even less God stuff (If God is not a petty juvenile).

Punish and then annihilate?  And the point was?

And noting that the Book has contradictory stuff here... both inter and intra version.  I.e. Bible as evidence can only work against posits of nice guy god, or just god, or anything but an asshole god.


BTW... I do not hate your God.  I think His followers are somewhat pathetic, but I figure His rep hangs on who he hangs with.

And serioius.  Short hell or long, eternal or annihilation, it has nothing to do with Justice.

Condemning in the absence of a crime, redeeming the guilty by slaying innocent,

It's all rather abhorrent.

tq
 

Quote:

PS. Its sad you have a hate mail section. Any Christians who writes hate
mail is a hypocrite. You guys don't deserve that. I apologize on there
behalf.

 

Ahhh... And should we then crucify you in order to insure the forgiveness of those Christian Hatemailers?

Serioius, you appear to be innocent of Sin here.  Sacricing a human innocent of sin in order to gain justification for the sinful seems to be a Christian thing.

 

tq again


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I've an announcement to

I've an announcement to make.  Hell is real and its located in California.  It's real name is Bakersfield and churches are to be found on damned near every street corner.  Ok, that's an exaggeration, they're on every other street corner.  In dog we trust in the schools, a fundy on the school board another one in charge of the County Elections Office. Rednecks in abundance.  Yeah, it's hell alright.

"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." Thomas Jefferson
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[Jorge Cruz sent a message

[

Jorge Cruz sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.



Jorge wrote:
A couple weeks ago I sent an email talking about the truth about hell.

Congrats on your discovery regarding hell
 

Jorge wrote:
Nobody has given me a response to the truth about hell.

There could be any number of reasons why nobody has responded so please be patient.

 

Jorge wrote:
If you look at the Bible in its WHOLE(not just one or two first verses) you will see that Hell doesn't burn forever like many atheist protest against.

Does hell burn at all ?  Oh, sorry.... I see you stated that hell doesn't burn forever. I will take that to mean that it does burn for some period of time. I have looked at the bible as a whole and cannot find evidence telling me clearly when hell will discontinue it's combustion. Could you please provide me with the details?

 

Jorge wrote:
The reason why people are atheist they have the wrong concepts and the wrong theology, and also base the actions of so called “Christians” and attack the truth of the Christian faith that’s found in the Bible.

I am an Atheist but I have found my concepts to be rational and veracious.

Atheism and theology combined ???  Huh ??????

Jorge wrote:
Just like Christians many Atheist instead of studying the Bible for themselves, they go by what priests and other people say about God instead of looking in the Bible themselves.

I've read the bible. I've read it in it's entirety. I've read it in several different versions. I've read it while eating, standing, sitting, shitting and running on a treadmill. I've read it on a boat. I've read it on a plane. But without good evidence, it's still insane.

You should try Dr. Seuss. He's way cooler than jeez-oose.

Oh, and I don't listen to priests, ministers, reverends, pastors, bishops or the pope. However, there is a sweet cardinal that sings outside my window from time to time. Does that count?

 

Jorge wrote:
Anybody can say anything but what the Bible says stands, and if
one is going to attack the faith then they need to attack the source of
truth for the faith the Bible and what it really say.

Thanks for reminding us that the 1st amendment is still in effect.

(That's amendment, not commandment)

 

Jorge wrote:
Also not just reading the Bible but STUDYING what the Bible says, especially like the topic on hell. I think the things is with most Atheism is that many people are tiredof the nominal Christianity.

Which version of the bible is the correct one? Once all Atheists have studied, will they agree completely with your position ? By "nominal christianity", are you saying all Atheists (who are people,btw) have a significantly small amount of christianity within themselves? Your sentences are difficult to decipher. Try less encryption.

 

Jorge wrote:
I’m a Christian and frankly I agree about
many things you say about Christianity.

Great, so march on over here to the A-team. Come on in for the big win.

 

Jorge wrote:
I think we are gravely mistaken inmany things and we are hypocrites.

Nooooo, reeaaallly. What possesses you to say that? (Sorry, forgive me and my silly question)

Jorge wrote:
But please keep in mind there are good
Christians who are sincere and want to do good. If a Christian has done
something wrong then they go against God’s word, which is Christianity.

He-he... new definition of christianity = going against god's word.

Sorry only have enough time for a last one...

Jorge wrote:
If any body has anything comments let me know

I know you are probably trying real hard to use your language skills to the fullest extent but have someone assist you or proof read at the very least, please.


 


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There is a verse where Jesus

There is a verse where Jesus says the torment will not end. The inconsistencies in the nature of hell just demonstrate that the bible is not the word of any god. It just stories made up by men. Some thought hell would be eternal torment others just a burning destruction. In any case it's torture.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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Mr Cruz-I have always

Mr Cruz-

I have always thought of the mention of hell or types of 'hell' in religious text as an extension of early mans attempt to explain the reverence they had for volcanoes. (think of primitives throwing in sacrifices etc) 

What are your thoughts on this?

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Bulldog wrote:I've an

Bulldog wrote:

I've an announcement to make.  Hell is real and its located in California.  It's real name is Bakersfield and churches are to be found on damned near every street corner.  Ok, that's an exaggeration, they're on every other street corner.  In dog we trust in the schools, a fundy on the school board another one in charge of the County Elections Office. Rednecks in abundance.  Yeah, it's hell alright.

I've visited Bakersfield once, and I agree that it is hell... or at least the front yard of hell.

Didnt they also rename one of their streets after that band Korn?

 


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Dray wrote:Bulldog

Dray wrote:

Bulldog wrote:

I've an announcement to make.  Hell is real and its located in California.  It's real name is Bakersfield and churches are to be found on damned near every street corner.  Ok, that's an exaggeration, they're on every other street corner.  In dog we trust in the schools, a fundy on the school board another one in charge of the County Elections Office. Rednecks in abundance.  Yeah, it's hell alright.

I've visited Bakersfield once, and I agree that it is hell... or at least the front yard of hell.

Didnt they also rename one of their streets after that band Korn?

 

Yeah, I live about an hour north of Bakersfield and they did name a street after Korn (Korn Row). It's just an access street to Rabobank Arena. Seems they were victims of a frog plague this summer too...... how fitting for hell.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


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clearing misconceptions about hell

    Before i say anything let me get one thing clear. As you know i'm a Christian that is my conviction, my faith, my belief. Anyone who claims to be a Protestant Christian follows what the Bible says. I am 100% Bible follower, i want to make clear i'm defending the topic on hell on what the complete Bible says, not how if it is physically or scientifically possible. I believe God can manipulate science because he created the science (Genises 1:1). There is no location to hell because it is not burning yet, in light of the Bible. Hell burning deep in the bowels of the Earth, and people are suffereing right now, is A LIE! Hell doesn't exist, yet. This myth is not biblical and a lie that the Catholic Church has had since the Dark Ages. I'm not attacking Catholics but as a side thing if i didn't know Biblical truth, and true Christianity, if we took a look at history and the crimes of the Church i would be a profess athiest as well believe me. I't seems to me that you don't believe in "souls", well than do you believe in a "mind". Something that i always thought to myself the "mind" is the athiest way of saying "soul". I quick thing on the whole soul thing basically Biblically a soul is what makes a person, who that person is and basically everything attribute of the person that is not physical. For example deep satification in a persons "heart". There are somethings that a human needs that physical and material things can't give. We can use love as a example love is not tangeable nor physical, so why people put so much value to it, love is the first step to understand Christianity. Desire is another thing . But to explain the whole the soul burning thing is another myth. The way this myth was thought up of is pagan(Greek) look at the the human soul, this is a view that many other people believe, it's the belief of humans having an imortal soul. Because people belive that the soul can never die, when it is placed in "hell" all the soul can do is just sit an burn forever. I absouletey agree with that point you said that hell will burnout, that is 100% biblical.(Malachi 4:3). Explaining when hell will happened can be very complicated becuase you have to study alot of things in the Bible to get the topic of hell when it burns. if you are curious and want to know more. Listen to this sermon: <http://www.yourvideos.net/hopevideo/David_Asscherick/discover/18-The_Good_News_About_Hell.mp3>

The gist of it is the reason why there is a hell. To get rid of the evil and wrong doing that plagues this world. God doesn't want to people in Hell, the Bible calls it his "strange act" Isaiah 28:21. It makes no sense how people can believe in, and i guess this is where Christians look irrational and un logical, that someone would punish somebody for eternity for something they did for only 60 to 70 years of life. That makes no sense and that where alot of Christians are wrong. As for the scientific look on hell, if God is who he claims, all knowing and powerful, he is then he can bend his created science to do his will. It wouldn't be a matter of science it would be a matter of his power.

I pray that you do see him and find him God Bless.

-Jorge Cruz 

 


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clearing misconceptions about hell

Well before i go on i just have to say that i'm a 100% Bible following Christian. If athiest are going to challenge  God, or his claims, then they have to speak against about the things that are in the Bible. If an athiest is talking agianst something that is not Biblical than your not really speaking against God your just talking agianst ideas people make up, then if thats the case this Christian is with you. If athiest want to challenge Christianity, God, and things things in the  Bible they need to know what the Bible says. Bible doesn't teach hell is forever or even a judicail punishment. The purpose of hell basically to get a rid of evil, wrong doing and people who stick to it. Who rather do wrong than right. In light of the Bible Hell is the grave. To make it as simple as possible Hell is a place where the existent becomes non-existent. Hell is not punish nobody is basically just to get rid of. The reason why God uses fire it is this. For example, a piece of paper that is "evil". I want to get rid of this "evil paper". If i bury it, it still exist and there is a chance someone can just dig it up again. I put it deep in the ocean it still exist and someone can go down and get it. But if i burn the paper the evil is gone. Some people say well why not just take the evil out of the paper. Well to bring it back to us people, you can only take out the evil if that is your decision. And if you decide you want to get rid of this evil we can't do it on our own we got to God to take it out, thats is the whole point of Christianity. You probably don't like the term "sin" or "sinner". A sinner is basically someone who does wrong. We all do wrong no matter who we are, and almost 100% of the time we do wrong because of selfishness, we do wrong to please our desires and pleasure. The reason why this world is so terrible because everybody is wronging each others and themselves. A Christian principle is love another, treat others like you would like to be treated. I ask you to imagine a world like that where, every body looked out for the other person instead  of ourselves. Even with disaters and death this world would be a utopia. Basically thats the human problem we just want to do wrong because we want to please ourselves, think about. Wrong is all around it but most people don't care,  most people are not concern about that ,people don't care this world goes to hell in a hand basket as long as they get to live there life. God wants to get rid of it, he want to make this world a utopia, so he has to basically wants take out the trash. Hell is not a prison it is a remover. But Christians see the wrong the in the world and in themselves so they believe and ask God to get rid of it. God can offer that to you, but its only your decsison. The only to see if there is a God is to search for him with all ones heart. But if one doesn't even try than of course one can't see if there  shutting his/her eyes and covering there ears.  I wonder how science came to be in the first place, is there something before science?

I hope you find him.

God Bless

-Jorge Cruz <email: >     


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Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:

-The_Good_News_About_Hell

... is that it doesn't exist.

- Brian Sapient


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This is what passes for

This is what passes for reason and clear thinking, concise argumentation and well-spelled out propositions to a theological mind? I mean, the very least they could do is put paragraphs, but they can't even manage that. Nor can they manage things like good spelling, good grammar, proper syntax, capitalization, logical structure and argumentative format.

Look people, we may be on the internet, but that is no excuse for this written excrement. As long as you ( Jorge Cruz) continue to write in such a careless, sloppy, idiotic manner, you will be considered just as your writing indicates: Careless, sloppy and idiotic. If you can't be prepared to do something so basic as write properly, then people will look at you and rightly conclude that you are a waste of time. Nobody could possibly be expected to decipher such mangled prose. You can't possibly expect people to respond unless you write decently. The fact that people have responded indicates we are cutting you too much slack.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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clearing misconceptions about hell

 


First of all I really appreciate you replying back to this. You definitely know what you are talking about. I really like how you said you studied and look for yourself. To be honest that's how i am, i don't believe nothing people tell me unless i see it in the Bible and is logical. I give you props on that because sometimes when i'm discussing and reasoning with people it frustrating that how they want to argue something they know nothing or little about. It's not smart if you talk about something you do not know about. I believe God gave us a brain and i must admit there times where most Christians don't use it.  I take my Christian beliefs very seriously and my faith is a intelligent faith, i leave nothing to blind faith, because that is weak faith. 

I'm very familiar with the Sodom and Gomorrah texts. Just a quick look at it in Jude 1:7 it says that they suffered eternal fire, is Sodom burning today? of course not, also because it says in  2 Peter 2:6 it says that they were condemn to ashes. What basically we have to figure out is what the Bible say in light of eternal fire, which the Sodom is used to show that fire in the bible doesn't mean eternal because they Bible says they were put to ashes. If you are still interested in knowing the truth i persuade you to listen to this sermon about hell: <http://www.yourvideos.net/hopevideo/David_Asscherick/discover/18-The_Good_News_About_Hell.mp3>. Also before you make a 100% complete decision about there is no God you should listen to this sermon from the same preacher, his name is Davis Asscherick and he give very deep intellectual sermons: <http://www.audioverse.org/displayrecording/31/DavidAsscherick-DoesGodExistDoesItMatter>

To answer your question about if there is an Justification of hell.

 

The purpose of hell basically to get a rid of evil, wrong doing and people who do it. Who rather do wrong than right. In light of the Bible Hell is the grave. To make it as simple as possible Hell is a place where the existent becomes non-existent. Hell is not punish nobody is basically just to get rid of. The reason why God uses fire  is this. For example, a piece of paper that is "evil". I want to get rid of this "evil paper". If i bury it, it still exist and there is a chance someone can just dig it up again. I put it deep in the ocean it still exist and someone can go down and get it. But if i burn the paper the evil is gone. Some people say well why not just take the evil out of the paper. Well to bring it back to people, you can only take out the evil if that is your decision. And if you decide you want to get rid of this evil we can't do it on our own we got to God to take it out, that’s is the whole point of Christianity. 

A sinner is basically someone who does wrong. We all do wrong no matter who we are, and almost 100% of the time we do wrong because of selfishness, we do wrong to please our desires and pleasure. The reason why this world is so terrible and screwed up because everybody is wronging each others and themselves. A Christian principle is love another, treat others like you would like to be treated. I ask you to imagine a world like that where, every body looked out for the other person instead  of ourselves. Even with disasters and death this world would be a utopia. I put deep thought and thought about it logically it would be a perfect world and just with that one Christian principle. That why I believe Christianity works. Basically that’s the human problem we just want to do wrong because we want to please ourselves, think about. That’s basically what sin is all about. Wrong is all around us it but most people don't care, most people are not concern about that ,people don't care this world goes to hell in a hand basket as long as they get to live there life, and what we they want. God wants to get rid of the human problem, the human pain, he want to make this world a perfect utopia, so he has to basically wants take out the trash, he has to get rid of the cause of the problem. Hell is not a prison it is a remover. But Christians see the wrong the in the world and in themselves so they believe and ask God to get rid of it. God can offer that to you, but its only your decision.

If you have any other questions or want to discuss something please right back at jmcjr06@aol.com. Also get back to me if you hear those sermons, I would like to hear your response to them. Why doesn’t Christianity work what is the problem with it.

 

 

 

 

A sinner is basically someone who does wrong. We all do wrong no matter who
we are, and almost 100% of the time we do wrong because of selfishness, we do
wrong to please our desires and pleasure. The reason why this world is so
terrible because everybody is wronging each others and themselves. A Christian
principle is love another, treat others like you would like to be treated. I
ask you to imagine a world like that where, every body looked out for the other
person instead  of ourselves. Even with disaters and death this world
would be a utopia. Basically thats the human problem we just want to do wrong
because we want to please ourselves, think about. Wrong is all around it but most
people don't care,  most people are not concern about that ,people don't
care this world goes to hell in a hand basket as long as they get to live there
life. God wants to get rid of it, he want to make this world a utopia, so he
has to basically wants take out the trash. Hell is not a prison it is a
remover. But Christians see the wrong the in the world and in themselves so
they believe and ask God to get rid of it. God can offer that to you, but its
only your decsison. The only to see if there is a God is to search for him with
all ones heart. But if one doesn't even try than of course one can't see if
there  shutting his/her eyes and covering there ears.  I wonder how
science came to be in the first place, is there something before science?

 


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not yet...

not yet...


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Anonymous wrote:I believe

Anonymous wrote:
I believe God can manipulate science because he created the science (Genises 1:1).


You base your claim on an erroneous translation. Bereshit in 1.1 has the form of a construct, not an absolute, so instead of "In the beginning, Elohim created", one would more appropriately translate it as "At the start of Elohim creating". Genesis begins with background information on the state of things. The action sequence begins in 1.3.

Genesis 1 does not teach ex-nihilo. In fact, it teaches against it. It says that land, air, and water existed "at the start of Elohim creating", meaning Elohim didn't bring those things into existence. Genesis 1 simply describes Elohim containing, separating, and moving things.

To give you a better idea of the structure of the text:

At the start of Elohim fashioning the sky and the terrain—the land was desolate and empty, darkness covered the surface of the deep, and the wind of Elohim hovered above the surface of the waters—Elohim said "Light!", so there was light.

I didn't concern myself so much with translating the text as structuring the verses. The first verse connects with the third in a logical sequence: At the start of Elohim fashioning ... Elohim said, Light! Before Elohim could fashion the world, he needed light to see what he was doing. The second verse serves as a parenthetical thought, bringing the reader up to speed about the situation so they would know what Elohim would see once he illuminated the area. The author hints that Elohim would feel disappointed after seeing the desolation but would be motivated to improve the area. The story continues, verse four onwards, telling of the ways in which Elohim improved it and how Elohim felt more and more satisfied as the work progressed. Never, though, does it speak of water, air, land, or spacetime itself coming into existence. 

Anonymous wrote:
I't seems to me that you don't believe in "souls", well than do you believe in a "mind". Something that i always thought to myself the "mind" is the athiest way of saying "soul".


The word "mind" simply symbolizes the results of electrochemical activity within the brain. I have not encountered any Christians who use the term "soul" to denote that. They tend to use "soul" as denoting something with an actual existence that lies behind neuronal activity.

Anonymous wrote:
We can use love as a example love is not tangeable nor physical, so why people put so much value to it, love is the first step to understand Christianity. Desire is another thing.


The word "love" symbolizes an array of experiences within the mind when contemplating a person or object. The phrase "in love" symbolizes two minds sharing similar contemplations of one another. One would rightly regard love as intangeable and nonphysical for it merely symbolizes something and does not, itself, exist as something outside the mind.

Your argument relies on a fallacy of ambiguity. Consider the proposition, "love exists". That ignores the symbolic nature of linguistic expression. Symbols do not have an existence themselves, beyond sensations within the mind, and propositions like "love exists" would have one thinking that love exists independently of the mind when it doesn't. Similarly with "the mind exists." Mind itself does not exist beyond the sensations of the brain. Your argument in favor of the existence of god seems to rely on the same fallacy.

Anonymous wrote:
I absouletey agree with that point you said that hell will burnout, that is 100% biblical.(Malachi 4:3).


Malachi hardly ever comes to my mind when thinking about biblical interpretation. As such, I never mentally connected Malachi 4.3 to the lake of fire. I find that very interesting. As I said earlier, I have wanted to continue researching the topic to see if I can find two opposing schools of thought on the subject. Looking at possible cross-references and parallels between Malachi 4.3 and other canonical and apocryphal texts might serve as a good place to start. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Anyway, I shall not respond to anything else in that post or the one that follows, for those consists of little more than preaching. I enjoy conversation, the exchange of ideas on various topics, but that involves talking with someone, rather than at someone. If you want to discuss, fantastic, but please avoid preaching here as practically no one here appreciates it.

Before going to do other things, I must say that I found this hilarious:

Anonymous wrote:
To answer your question about if there is an Justification of hell. 

Normal
0


false
false
false

Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!


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On the contrary folks, hell

On the contrary folks, hell DOES exist. It's called Lynchburg Va controlled by the Falwell Maffia.

 

I spent 10 years watching Fartwell act like he owned the entire city. He even at one point attempted to rename an ENTIRE MOUNTAIN after his College. The city finally bitch slapped him verbally. It was nice for once to see the city stand up to him.

 

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Quote:Well before i go on i

Quote:
Well before i go on i just have to say that i'm a 100% Bible following Christian.

Really? So you literally believe that bears malled children via god's magic wand because they made fun of a bald man? You literally believe that Lot offered up his daughter to rapists? You literally believe that god spread dung in the Levite's faces?

I am sure you do. And I am quite sure you have a sample of godsperm that magically got Mary pregnant? I am quite sure you have AMA peer reviewed studies on HOW human flesh survives rigor mortis after 3 days of death?

 And exactly HOW did Noah take care of dangerous animals like cobras, hippos, alligators, dart frogs and black widows? Let me gess...ABRACADABRA "POOF" God did it.

Go pick up a copy of any Superman comic book and put it next to your bible and read both one page each at a time.

 

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Jorge, if you are correct

Jorge, if you are correct then what's up with all of the tormenting, everlasting contempt, everlasting punishment, everlasting damnation, wailing, gnashing, weeping, vengeance, everlasting destruction and fire that shall never be quenched?

 

 
Is.66:24
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. -->
Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 18:8-9
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.
Mark 9:43-48
... into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.
Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

 


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Is 66.24 &mdash; And they

Is 66.24 — And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jews of the time commonly used unquenchable fire as a figure of speech to denote an unsnuffable fire that continues burning until it has consumed everything and, by extension, to connote an unquellable judgment. It makes no reference to duration, only intensity. The valley of Hinnom, called Gehenna in Greek, was used as a firepit from the days of Phoenicians sacrificing children to Molech to the days of the Jews burning their trash and excrement to keep their city sanitary. Jews often used Gehenna metaphorically to refer to the lake of fire because it contained an unquenchable fire. (When Jesus basically said the Pharisees, the vipers, could not escape hell fire, Jesus used Gehenna as a metaphor for the lake of fire.) Nobody thought the fire of Gehenna would burn eternally, simply burning until nothing remained for it to consume. Gehenna, filled with a lot of material, became an excellent feeding ground for worms. This is where the "worm shall not die" expression comes in, meaning much would be burned.

Mt 13.41-42 — The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

A metaphysical naturalist could say that people tossed into a fire will wail and gnash their teeth. You seem to have been taught for so long the idea of Hell burning eternally that unknowingly inserted that notion into this verse.

Mt 18.8-9 — If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

The word they tried to translate as everlasting, aionis, contains the root aion, which means an indefinite period of time. Aionis means during an indefinite period of time. Young's Literal Translation offers age-during, which is ackward but acceptable. The word everlasting carries the idea of eternity while aionis does not. One can only determine the duration of time that aionis represents by referring to the context. In this case, the translators have seen it fit to interpret the words, undoubtedly from the standpoint of their own doctrinal beliefs, instead of simply translating them. Also, note that the amount of time a fire burns has little relevance to how long people would suffer if tossed into the fire. (Apply this reasoning to Mk 9.43-48 and Mt 25.41,46.)

2 Thess 1.8-9 — In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

Aionis. Remember what I said about context? The context in this verse leaves us with a clear interpretation of aionis as eternal. If you destroy something, it remains destroyed forever. The verse basically says heathens shall die and remain dead. (If they remain conscious, were they destroyed? Of course not. 2 Thess 1.8-9 contradicts the idea of eternal suffering because eternal suffering necessitates an eternally undestroyed state.)

Rev 14.10-11 — The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

Your translation has departed from everlastingness and eternality at the end of the passage. They must have realized that "the smoke of their torment ascendeth for an infinite number (plural aion) of eternities (plural aion)" made no sense whatsoever. It says "for ages and ages", implying a long but not necessarily infinite period of time. That wasn't satisfactory for them though, since it didn't suit their fancy of pulling eternities and infinities from the text. They contorted to produce "for ever and ever". Note how "ever" is singular while the verse contains plural aions. If one insists on using the word ever, the verse would be more appropriately translated as "for evers and evers." That's obvious gibberish. In most cases, I would say the translators are mistaken, confused, or something like that, but this rendition of Rev 14.10-11 is deliberate distortion. To use a figure of speech, those translators were some tricky devils. Also, remember what I said about the so-called everlasting fire. The amount of time it burns, or smokes, has little relevance to how long people remain conscious within it.

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  Jorge wrote:The reason

 

Jorge wrote:
The reason why people are atheist they have the wrong concepts and the wrong theology, and also base the actions of so called “Christians” and attack the truth of the Christian faith that’s found in the Bible.

Actually, atheists have no theology. Truth about Christianity? That you worship a 2000 year old Jewish zombie? But that's beside the point.

People's concept of Hell is more Faustian than Biblical.

In the Bible, the word we see in English as "hell" has three different origins. In the Old Testament, hell is "sheol", a word which means "grave". In the New Testament, hell comes from "hades", which is both a Greek underworld and a Greek god, and it is the Greek translation of the word "sheol". Used as it is in the Bible, hades also means "grave". Another word that gets (mis?-)translated to "hell" in the New Testament is "gehenna", which refers to the valley of ge Hinnon.

Ge Hinnon valley lies outside Jerusalem, and was used as a garbage pit. Fires burned there constantly to dispose of the refuse. With the heat, and fire, and choking smoke, I imagine it was a "hellish" place.

"Hell" is referenced as a place of eternal torment only a couple times in the Bible. While the God of the Old Testament is demonstrably a vindictive, petty and cruel deity, the New Testament God is supposed to be loving and forgiving, kind and compassionate (*gag*). How can a loving God consign any of its creation to an eternity (or what seems like an eternity) in such a place as Hell?

 


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The "truth" of hell is such

The "truth" of hell is such a self centered threat. It is the same emotional crap an abusive spouse will pull on their mate. "You have two choices. You can stay and love me. Or, you can try to leave and I will beat the shit out of you".

Let me clue this moron in on something. |"Hell" is a fictional place, just like Never Never Land in Peter Pan.

There is no magic needed to say that people do bad things. There is no magical man in a red leotard with a pitchfork manipulating the neurons in our heads causing us to do bad things.

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Visual_Paradox wrote:Is

Visual_Paradox wrote:

Is 66.24 — And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jews of the time commonly used unquenchable fire as a figure of speech to denote an unsnuffable fire that continues burning until it has consumed everything and, by extension, to connote an unquellable judgment. It makes no reference to duration, only intensity. The valley of Hinnom, called Gehenna in Greek, was used as a firepit from the days of Phoenicians sacrificing children to Molech to the days of the Jews burning their trash and excrement to keep their city sanitary. Jews often used Gehenna metaphorically to refer to the lake of fire because it contained an unquenchable fire. (When Jesus basically said the Pharisees, the vipers, could not escape hell fire, Jesus used Gehenna as a metaphor for the lake of fire.) Nobody thought the fire of Gehenna would burn eternally, simply burning until nothing remained for it to consume. Gehenna, filled with a lot of material, became an excellent feeding ground for worms. This is where the "worm shall not die" expression comes in, meaning much would be burned.

Mt 13.41-42 — The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

A metaphysical naturalist could say that people tossed into a fire will wail and gnash their teeth. You seem to have been taught for so long the idea of Hell burning eternally that unknowingly inserted that notion into this verse.

Mt 18.8-9 — If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

The word they tried to translate as everlasting, aionis, contains the root aion, which means an indefinite period of time. Aionis means during an indefinite period of time. Young's Literal Translation offers age-during, which is ackward but acceptable. The word everlasting carries the idea of eternity while aionis does not. One can only determine the duration of time that aionis represents by referring to the context. In this case, the translators have seen it fit to interpret the words, undoubtedly from the standpoint of their own doctrinal beliefs, instead of simply translating them. Also, note that the amount of time a fire burns has little relevance to how long people would suffer if tossed into the fire. (Apply this reasoning to Mk 9.43-48 and Mt 25.41,46.)

2 Thess 1.8-9 — In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

Aionis. Remember what I said about context? The context in this verse leaves us with a clear interpretation of aionis as eternal. If you destroy something, it remains destroyed forever. The verse basically says heathens shall die and remain dead. (If they remain conscious, were they destroyed? Of course not. 2 Thess 1.8-9 contradicts the idea of eternal suffering because eternal suffering necessitates an eternally undestroyed state.)

Rev 14.10-11 — The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

Your translation has departed from everlastingness and eternality at the end of the passage. They must have realized that "the smoke of their torment ascendeth for an infinite number (plural aion) of eternities (plural aion)" made no sense whatsoever. It says "for ages and ages", implying a long but not necessarily infinite period of time. That wasn't satisfactory for them though, since it didn't suit their fancy of pulling eternities and infinities from the text. They contorted to produce "for ever and ever". Note how "ever" is singular while the verse contains plural aions. If one insists on using the word ever, the verse would be more appropriately translated as "for evers and evers." That's obvious gibberish. In most cases, I would say the translators are mistaken, confused, or something like that, but this rendition of Rev 14.10-11 is deliberate distortion. To use a figure of speech, those translators were some tricky devils. Also, remember what I said about the so-called everlasting fire. The amount of time it burns, or smokes, has little relevance to how long people remain conscious within it.

 

Thanks for answering my question on behalf of Jorge.

You've explained a lot that I didn't know about the 'ever and ever' stuff but my question, although I may not have worded it well, was partially, if not largely, about the implication I got from Jorge that hell is not about punishment and suffering but is instead simply about 'getting rid of' evil.

So, are the words 'torment', 'punishment' etc. also mistranslations or misunderstandings?

Was 'fire' translated correctly? You correctly pointed out that the amount of time spent in a fire wouldn't matter much but it is still being thrown into a fire (of who knows what sort?).

 

Is it a literal fire?

 

Jorge said or implied that it wouldn't be rational for god to burn someone in a fire forever. I agree...but why use fire at all if you are all- powerful? How about turning all the 'evil' people into pillars of salt?

More humane, but then, less scary and would kinda ruin the 'vengeance' aspect.

 


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Jorge Cruz wrote:For

Jorge Cruz wrote:
For hundreds of years the Christian church has been teaching a false doctrine

This was a very good start, I completely agree with this. Your email went downhill from there, very fast.


Brian37
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Quote:.  Fake Christianity

Quote:
.  Fake Christianity is tragedy true Christianity is
a refuge.

Glad you cleared that up. In the mean time "Real" Star Trec fans know the trouble with tribbles.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Jorge Cruz (not verified)
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Hell and science

Okay i  understand for the most part of what you were saying about the thermodynamics and the law of gas, it is a unique way at looking at hell,  I'm in my 3rd year of Mechanical Engineering in Walla Walla University (lol i know its wierd name). Hell is not a thermodynamics problem.  With all do respect, that's a problem athiest that they think "the God of the Universe"  can be figured out by a math problems, like somethings so, so grand can be figred in a simple thereom Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4


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. The problem in figuring out God with atheist, agnostics, and other skeptics is that they see God as a theory that has not been proven. They see God as a Math problem or a mathematical theorem that has to been be proven and if he is not analytically proven that he doesn’t exist. Think about it for 1 second, if God who we claim he is "the Sovern God of the Universe and the Great Creator" then shouldn't he have no bounds, science is something that is wrap around his finger. He can break all therodynamics, physical laws and propeties because he is all powerful. That might seem like a simple answer but doesn't make sense if we can apeal to the claim that God can do everything. First off hell doesn't exist, hell is basically an infirmary when you put something in there it is completley consumes and it ceases to exist, hell in the Bible is refered to the second death (Revelation 20:14 ). God wants to get rid of the wrong in this world so it will cease to exist, it's not about burning people. People who stand for evil, wrong doing, will but God doesn't want to do it, but it's the only way because the human race keeps getting worse and worse. Soul don't go there because when you die everything (your body and soul) dies just like your mind, by the way the word "mind" is the athiest way of saying "soul". Your mind is not tangeable but you know you have one. Love is not tangeable but you know you feel it. 


Jorge Cruz (not verified)
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What's the fuss??

First off i want to apologize to many atheist who have been victimized by this. i apologize for prejudice "Christians" who claim to follow Jesus and treat people rudely just because you don't believe the samething. As a Christian I am truly EMBARRASSED! of how some Christians treat people with disrespect than say that they love God. THEY ARE HYPOCRITES! I'm am truly sorry. Forget about the Bible and all the doctrines forget about creation, forget about Sunday Church. Christianity at it's core is all about loving God first and loving your fellow man, no matter who that person is or what they believe in.  Jesus said "Why do you call me Lord, and not do the things i say?". That what God is asking alot of Christians, especially people who force you and treat you poorly. I'm truly Embarrassed!  That is not Christianity and i promise you that, that is hypocrisy. If there is a so called "Christian" doing this to you, tell them that they are a HYPOCRITE! and tell them that a fellow Christian said that and even Jesus said that. Once again i'm sorry. I respect your belief i'm not here on this cite to argue but to reason. I want to rid people of stereotype, and unBiblical things that sadly many people including "Christians" have made. Even if you don't believe in God i want you to know that there are loving Christians out there that would not treat you this away, even if they were your enemies. Jesus said love your enemies. Christianity is a religion of LOVE anybody who shows anything short of that is a Liar and hypocrite!

Once again.. I'm Sorry

 

Jorge Cruz


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I agree with you 100%. It is

I agree with you 100%. It is unjustice to punish someone for eternity, forever and ever, for something they did only 50-80.  But like i said a eternal hell is not true. Doesn't make sense and this idea in a Christian prospective challenges the number one fact of Christianity is  God is love. How can the Bible say he is love and he is willing to torture people forever and ever. It doesn't make sense and is unBiblical, to use the irrationality of a eternal against God is not correct because its not in the Bible. It like trying to accuse a women of being a man. The Bible when in talks about eternal fire its talking about it in a relative term not in literal sense. The hell doctrine is made false doctrine, in a Christian prospective.

 The whole thing about Satan is this, God creates everyone with a freedom of choice. In the Bible it says that Satan made a choice to go against God. It was his own choice.

But i just got a quick things about justice. Just like a convicted cereal killer has done enough crimes to give him the death sentence. Many athiest in fact just about all athiest believe that we only live one life and once that life is up its over. And your dead forever. No heaven, no reincarnation, nothing your dead forever and your done. Hell is just that death. Hell in Greek is transliterated in as Gehenna which means the grave. If God is real then an atheist should have no Hell because it is the grave, death. You lived your life the way you wanted to now its over.  Hell is for the evil. God lets us do whatever we want but at the end of this world he wants to make a new one. Free of pain, suffering, evil and hate. If you don't know God it doesn't mean your going to hell God will judge your Character and by the things you have done.

Jorge Cruz


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Jorge wrote:Hell in Greek is

Jorge wrote:
Hell in Greek is transliterated in as Gehenna which means the grave.


Please practice caution when picking your words. Gehenna means Hinnon Valley, where people burned trash in NT times. It does not mean hell or grave. The NT authors used it as an allusion to the lake of fire, using it in arguments by analogy, but it's the proper name of a place. This is Gehenna today:


 

 

Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!


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Well, fuck, that doesn't

Well, fuck, that doesn't look like too bad of a place to spend eternity.