Even if there where a god....

funknotik
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Even if there where a god....

I've been thinking about this for a while and haven't really mentioned it to anyone cause it's kind of pointless since no one I associate with is religious anyway. I have yet to ask a religious or "god fearing" person. So lets assume there is a god (for the sake of argument). Why would this omnipresent, omni benevolent, omniescient, etc etc, being want to be worshiped? Why would he care if people worship him or not? He knows everything that is going to happen and everything that already has happened. If you are at least somewhat logical you would think to ask yourself this question. But that fact that people want to fear, be indebted too, or have to kneel and worship a god, to me is just a testament to how human they really are. I see it like, humanity made the concept of god up and kind of thought about what they would do if they where all powerful. People must have been like, damn if i where a god, I would just make everyone my bitch. I would make them worship me and have to waste countless hours giving me props cause yo I fuckin made this shit. So really religious people want to be bitches to a cosmic pimp, in what C Hitchens refers to as the "celestial dictatorship," or "celestial north Korea." So I guess it's kind of like everyone is somebodies bitch, so there must be a big pimp in the sky, who tends to his flock of bitches. Anyway I'm just wondering is there any justification for this from the religious perspective like, why do they think god would care about wtf we do if he is all powerful? I think the Judeo Christian god would be something like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bhy0_jkOXCo


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That's part of what makes it

That's part of what makes it all so amusing. The old testament version of god is such a dick. Why would the supposed omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc care?

Absolutely idiotic.

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


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Abu Lahab wrote:That's part

Abu Lahab wrote:
That's part of what makes it all so amusing. The old testament version of god is such a dick. Why would the supposed omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc care?

Absolutely idiotic.

Now, if they defined god as "a 13 year old boy with anger issues and an ant farm", well, then it'd at least be internally consistent

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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JillSwift wrote:Abu Lahab

JillSwift wrote:

Abu Lahab wrote:
That's part of what makes it all so amusing. The old testament version of god is such a dick. Why would the supposed omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc care?

Absolutely idiotic.

Now, if they defined god as "a 13 year old boy with anger issues and an ant farm", well, then it'd at least be internally consistent

Amen, sister!

 

Oh, bugger.........

 

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


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JillSwift wrote:Abu Lahab

JillSwift wrote:

Abu Lahab wrote:
That's part of what makes it all so amusing. The old testament version of god is such a dick. Why would the supposed omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc care?

Absolutely idiotic.

Now, if they defined god as "a 13 year old boy with anger issues and an ant farm", well, then it'd at least be internally consistent

 

I think you hit on something with that, although I'd be more likely to say a 15 year old boy with anger issues, a sociopath's attitude and an ant farm (or sea monkeys)

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Omnipresent

funknotik wrote:

I've been thinking about this for a while and haven't really mentioned it to anyone cause it's kind of pointless since no one I associate with is religious anyway. I have yet to ask a religious or "god fearing" person. So lets assume there is a god (for the sake of argument). Why would this omnipresent, omni benevolent, omniescient, etc etc, being want to be worshiped? Why would he care if people worship him or not? He knows everything that is going to happen and everything that already has happened. If you are at least somewhat logical you would think to ask yourself this question. But that fact that people want to fear, be indebted too, or have to kneel and worship a god, to me is just a testament to how human they really are. I see it like, humanity made the concept of god up and kind of thought about what they would do if they where all powerful. People must have been like, damn if i where a god, I would just make everyone my bitch. I would make them worship me and have to waste countless hours giving me props cause yo I fuckin made this shit. So really religious people want to be bitches to a cosmic pimp, in what C Hitchens refers to as the "celestial dictatorship," or "celestial north Korea." So I guess it's kind of like everyone is somebodies bitch, so there must be a big pimp in the sky, who tends to his flock of bitches. Anyway I'm just wondering is there any justification for this from the religious perspective like, why do they think god would care about wtf we do if he is all powerful? I think the Judeo Christian god would be something like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bhy0_jkOXCo

 

"omnipresent" seems self negating to me. Are you not EVERYTHING if you are omnipresent? How could something be a separate entity and be omni anything?

If god is everything then who tempted who and who is punishing who and who suffered and died on a cross for who and who wasn't even around to warn who about a who-snake? Etc., etc... Smiling

How could an omni-something KNOW that there is nothing outside of itself?

If god is infinite how could he know that? He couldn't go to the end of himself and say, yep, I'm infinite. 

If god is omnipresent he can't have an unique identity and therefore doesn't or might as well not exist.

Am I wrong?


 


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I think if there is a god

I think if there is a god that it wouldn't give a damn if we worshipped it or not. If it did create everything then I could understand it caring if bad things happened and might even occasionally step in to stop some evil. Point is, humans invented worship so if there is a god it would want to be told how great it is right? Honestly, I can't understand why theists play into believing their perfect god/gods narcissistic side. If a human needs to consistently hear how great they are it's a mental disorder but if god needs constant affirmation it's ok. In the words of Penn and Teller worship is bullshit.

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I have addressed this

I have addressed this question on other websites and it does not make any sense at all.

IF one claims perfection, then such a perfection should not need any additions to it.

A want or a need implies by definition a deficit. If something is already whole it does not require any addition.

For a god to want or need worship is absurd. What is really going on is a utopian projection in the human mind of what they would want to be. It is genetic, not in the sense that magic exists of course, but in the sense that we have yet to comprehend, collectively as a species, that our desires are not magical or infinite, but mundane and ordinary.

We as a species through hook or crook, through emotional empathy or through violence, have still not escaped the narcisism of the fear of not having a nipple to suck on. If people (religion, politics, individual) don't pay attention to me, I will make them.

The apex of such expression is a "god". We genetically, as a species have not come to the realization that we are no more important than a cockroach or black hole.

We are important  to ourselves as a species and all we can do is try to extend the ride. But any moron who thinks the universe is a giant brain, or that a magical deity controls everything is of no help to those who want to extend the ride as long as possible.

 

 

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JillSwift wrote:Abu Lahab

JillSwift wrote:

Abu Lahab wrote:
That's part of what makes it all so amusing. The old testament version of god is such a dick. Why would the supposed omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc care?

Absolutely idiotic.

Now, if they defined god as "a 13 year old boy with anger issues and an ant farm", well, then it'd at least be internally consistent

In the beginning (6000 years ago): God was born, an infant, threw a bunch of dirt together and made things.

In the time of moses (5000-2000 years ago): God went through his childhood and puberty, acted like a typical young boy with anger issues and an ant farm.

In the time of jesus (2000 years ago): God turned 21, got laid, and suddenly all his frustration was "relieved".  "It's all cool man" and "turn the other cheek" became his catchphrases.

Since then (2000 years ago to now): He has a kid now, his social life has died up the arse and that is why nobody has seen or heard from him in any way other than speculation.

So what's to come?  Well, I'll leave that to everyone's imagination.  Personally though, I can't wait until he goes through his mid-life crisis around the year 10,000CE.  It'd be awesome having the earth zooming through the universe in an expensive 2-seater luxury sports car.

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thingy wrote:JillSwift

thingy wrote:

JillSwift wrote:

Abu Lahab wrote:
That's part of what makes it all so amusing. The old testament version of god is such a dick. Why would the supposed omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc care?

Absolutely idiotic.

Now, if they defined god as "a 13 year old boy with anger issues and an ant farm", well, then it'd at least be internally consistent

In the beginning (6000 years ago): God was born, an infant, threw a bunch of dirt together and made things.

In the time of moses (5000-2000 years ago): God went through his childhood and puberty, acted like a typical young boy with anger issues and an ant farm.

In the time of jesus (2000 years ago): God turned 21, got laid, and suddenly all his frustration was "relieved".  "It's all cool man" and "turn the other cheek" became his catchphrases.

Since then (2000 years ago to now): He has a kid now, his social life has died up the arse and that is why nobody has seen or heard from him in any way other than speculation.

So what's to come?  Well, I'll leave that to everyone's imagination.  Personally though, I can't wait until he goes through his mid-life crisis around the year 10,000CE.  It'd be awesome having the earth zooming through the universe in an expensive 2-seater luxury sports car.

 

seems to me he's having his midlife crisis right now, or maybe Alzheimer's disease since he can't seem to remember his more important stuff and is acting like a whiny baby all over again.

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i've been thinking of

i've been thinking of something along the lines of this as well. why would you create something just so it could worship you?

Also:

Let's say you meet some guy on the street. This guy says he loves you and will help you with anything at all if you ask him. You ask him for a small donation to your charity. He says no. You ask him for something else. He shrugs and walks away. Now, he would also like you to love him back and praise his existance or else he will douse you in gasoline and light a match on your head. He also says he is your real father and he only made you because he was bored. I don't know about other countries, but in America we would call this person a "douchebag". However, it basically describes most gods.


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I understand there are like

I understand there are like 200 logical fallacies in the whole story. But are there any christian apologetics or theologians that attempt to make sense of any of this. I mean these are relatively easy concepts to understand, you would think even the most indoctrinated person thinks about these things occasionally. But then again I don't know that many religious people, the ones I do know just go to church to satisfy someone else.


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It reminds me of pet

It reminds me of pet owners.  Do you want your dog to like you?  Of course, you are a fallible human being, not a deity.

Deities are usually created in some sort of human image.  Attributes like the need for worship stemming from the human need for friends illustrates this point very well. 

As to the theologians, I was taught that god was basically lonely so made us.  We exist purely to please him, but he wants us to want to be his friend.  It's an odd hostage type of situation that's passed off as loving and caring. 

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funknotik wrote:But are

funknotik wrote:

But are there any christian apologetics or theologians that attempt to make sense of any of this. 

Yeah, I can say that I have. It occurs to me that if an omni-xxx god "wants" for its creation to worship it then "worship" must confer some direct tangible benefit to the worshipper since the God clearly should have no need of any.

That said, I find the concept of worship as it is held by most religions to be lame.

I've been involved in a couple of threads about this topic and my posts here might be interesting to you as well.

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funknotik
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Eloise wrote:funknotik

Eloise wrote:

funknotik wrote:

But are there any christian apologetics or theologians that attempt to make sense of any of this. 

Yeah, I can say that I have. It occurs to me that if an omni-xxx god "wants" for its creation to worship it then "worship" must confer some direct tangible benefit to the worshipper since the God clearly should have no need of any.

That said, I find the concept of worship as it is held by most religions to be lame.

I've been involved in a couple of threads about this topic and my posts here might be interesting to you as well.

 

Wait so god has no need of worship but wants it anyway? You know in comic books they have ways of making up for plot lines that didn't make any sense. It's called a "retcon," and allows for the all the loose plot lines to tie together correctly. Time to retcon the bible alot of it doesn't make any sense, crappy story and boring characters.


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Abu Lahab wrote:That's part

Abu Lahab wrote:

That's part of what makes it all so amusing. The old testament version of god is such a dick. Why would the supposed omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc care?

Absolutely idiotic.

Who said God stopped being a dick after the OT? SPOILER ALERT for those who haven't read the end of the book don't read beyond this sentence.

IF YOU DONT KISS HIS ASS YOU BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY! THE END!

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