Talked to a Creationist...

triften
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Talked to a Creationist...

They said that they didn't believe in evolution and I asked if they just hadn't seen compelling evidence or what. They said they believed that the Earth was created 10 or 20 thousand years ago by god and all that. They had decided that evolution was wrong in high school... sophomore year bio, when they said to themselves "that's ridiculous, I didn't come from organic soup". Evidentially, high school bio is all that is needed to make a judgment on evolution. They tried to bring up the second law of thermodynamics and the claim that all mutations were bad. I'm good at shooting down the misuse of the second law of thermodynamics, but I couldn't remember the number of mutations that occur per generation (I want to say it's somewhat like 60 copy errors or something introduced) which are generally neutral in effect. Nor did I point out how egotistical the reasoning of "No, I'm special!" is.

Gaaah!

On the bright side, I did introduce someone else to talkorigins.org. They were wondering about the second law of thermodynamics and I had a feeling that they had been listening to a creationist recently.

-Triften


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triften    , I feel your

triften

    , I feel your pain , thanks for your help , understanding the enemy ....

     ( god is all of time, god is evolution, and all the rest !!?!!  , of course )


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if it was left up to

if it was left up to evolution chance would still be rolling the dice trying to glue together DNA. Take a close look at how complex

the operation of the human cell is.


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I believe that the prNA, rNA

I believe that the prNA, rNA and subsequently DNA developed pre-glue era in the evolutionary chain. But seriously, what makes you think the process of evolution is chance? And what about the complexity of human cells? Was that some sort of evidence?

Thats cute.


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Subject-755482 wrote:if it

Subject-755482 wrote:

if it was left up to evolution chance would still be rolling the dice trying to glue together DNA. Take a close look at how complex

the operation of the human cell is.

Take a look at the crazy 'design' of the human eye, with its back-to-front retina, the blood vessels on the front of it, showing just how much chance is involved even in such allegedly 'designed' features. The element of chance lead to the octupus having a more rationally 'designed' eye, presumably because it evolved independently via a different sequence of steps. Whereas if everything had actually been designed by the same super-intelligent designer, there is no reason why our eye could not have been the right way round.

Our body is most definitely not exquitely designed, the 'complexity' is a sign of POOR design, since if everything was designed from scratch, it could have been much more elegant. Good design minimises the complexity, because that makes thing more failure prone. However the structure of living organisms is limited to patterns which can be derived by progressive modification of previous working 'designs', with lots of leftover bits which don't really make sense in the new one, like human 'tail-bones', the vestiges of rear limbs in whales bodies, and so on.

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Subject-755482 wrote:if it

Subject-755482 wrote:

if it was left up to evolution chance would still be rolling the dice trying to glue together DNA. [...]

"Trying to?" What's "trying to" do that in your scenario?


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What drives evolution other

What drives evolution other then chance daretoknow?   A higher power??

BobSpence1, dude your not an octupus. And i believe that they live under the water... so wouldn't one want to compare something a little more in our target area.  Plus i believe the eye just wouldn't fit.  And did you say that i had a tail at one time because i had a tail bone?? 

magilum, "trying to" in the scenario is about random chance in which evolution is based on.

 

 

 


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Subject-755482,

Subject-755482, show me your idol , and I will show you the enemy ....


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Subject-755482 wrote:What

Subject-755482 wrote:

What drives evolution other then chance daretoknow?   A higher power??

BobSpence1, dude your not an octupus. And i believe that they live under the water... so wouldn't one want to compare something a little more in our target area.  Plus i believe the eye just wouldn't fit.  And did you say that i had a tail at one time because i had a tail bone?? 

magilum, "trying to" in the scenario is about random chance in which evolution is based on.

What drives evolution "Natural Selection" (not chance) and random mutation.  The only thing close to being chance would of had to come about with the first replicator, after that it is just a failure to replicate correctly.  So no evolution isn't chance.  Suggested reading on the subject, http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/chance/chance.html

 

Sounds made up...
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Magus wrote:Subject-755482

Magus wrote:

Subject-755482 wrote:

What drives evolution other then chance daretoknow?   A higher power??

BobSpence1, dude your not an octupus. And i believe that they live under the water... so wouldn't one want to compare something a little more in our target area.  Plus i believe the eye just wouldn't fit.  And did you say that i had a tail at one time because i had a tail bone?? 

magilum, "trying to" in the scenario is about random chance in which evolution is based on.

What drives evolution "Natural Selection" (not chance) and random mutation.  The only thing close to being chance would of had to come about with the first replicator, after that it is just a failure to replicate correctly.  So no evolution isn't chance.  Suggested reading on the subject, http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/chance/chance.html

 

Nice of you to offer some suggested reading, but I doubt very seriously they will read it. I, myself love the TalkOrigins site and use it quite a bit. This is such a basic principle of evolutionary theory and this poster doesn't seem to have a clue.

I've always said that the only group that understands evolutionary theory less than the average athiest is the average christian.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


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I AM GOD AS YOU

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:
Subject-755482, show me your idol , and I will show you the enemy ....
Throw me the idol. No time to argue! Throw me idol, I'll throw you the whip!

 

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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I love you sister Jill Swift

I love you sister Jill Swift , "you turn me on" ....

TURN ME LOOSE, I'M Dr.FEELGOOD』

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 Ahhh, and that song I can't find YET, it was wicked disco ... I will find it god damn it

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T-Rex Bang A Gong (Get it On)

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Crazy boys .....

Damn I want that horny song to post ... Anyway here is a nice one , my good Jill,

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Subject-755482

Subject-755482 wrote:

BobSpence1, dude your not an octupus. And i believe that they live under the water... so wouldn't one want to compare something a little more in our target area.  Plus i believe the eye just wouldn't fit.  And did you say that i had a tail at one time because i had a tail bone?? 

You do not address the issue that the retina of the octopus eye is clearly better 'designed' than ours. It is quite definitely an eye, has the same functionality. Any size difference is also irrelevant - mammalian eyes share similar problems and cover a large range of size.

The fact that it lives underwater and has eight appendages is utterly irrelevant to the point, except to show that organisms that have evolved along very different paths, finding different ways to thrive, can stumble across various ways to solve the same 'problem' such as sight. Such an example so clearly fits the scenario of mutation/selection, where the massive usefulness for many 'lifestyles' of good vision has lead to strong selection pressures for eyes to have evolved independently several times. At the same time, the fact that evolution can only work thru successive small changes means that the details of the solutions will be different and show traces of that path taken.

We have a bone which is worse than useless, that makes absolutely no sense except as a vestigial remnant from our evolutionary past, where our distant ancestors did indeed have a tail - any other explanation makes so little sense in comparison, especially anything which assumes a priori that complex structures cannot arise from simpler ones, which leaves us with no ultimate explanation for anything.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

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Subject-755482 (not

Subject-755482 (not verified) wrote:

What drives evolution other then chance daretoknow?   A higher power??

 

Not sure if that was a serious question, but it's an easy one. Natural selection drives evolution. Is there a randomness to the mutations that arise? Yes. Is there a randomness to the proliferation of said mutation through the gene pool, so to speak? No. The environment selects beneficial mutations and "rejects" the non-beneficial. There is no need for a conscious agent in this process. It is beautifully self regulating, albeit not perfect by any means.

Thats cute.


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EDIT - Double Post


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Serious discussion Motley

Serious discussion

Motley Crue - Dr. Feel Good  ( serious preaching !!! with a touch ..... ((((  SOLO

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Motley Crue - Kick Start My Heart

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Motley Crue - Helter

Motley Crue - Helter Skelter

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             Why confusion?  Why make believe ???

 [ "Morning" EDIT - the rock music is a method, I was sharing, as a way I combat my frustration, and even an answer to the religious zealot idol worshipers. Religion drives me nuts. "Rage against the machine" !!! ..... ]


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Subject-755482

Subject-755482 wrote:

magilum, "trying to" in the scenario is about random chance in which evolution is based on.

It serves me right for being subtle and expecting you to get it. Your wording assumes a deliberate agency, and under that assumption you feel justified in positing your familiar mythology. However, science doesn't deal with teleology and metaphysical intent. This works out for you because you're not competing with science, but rather searching for some vague, pacifying answer to the insipid, "Why am I here?" question. Your myths are neither justified by evidence, nor examinable (and so unprovable) as framed. They're just really, really, really bad guesses.