Are Canadians Surrendering Again?

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Are Canadians Surrendering Again?

National Post Article

Reverend Connie denBok says to sum up what is wrong with the United Church of Canada, one need look no further than the name of the panel discussion being held tonight in Toronto.

"Shouldn't the United Church Just Throw in the Towel?" is the opening event of a four-day Church-sponsored conference that will look at the future of the country's largest Protestant denomination.

"If the people who are allegedly in a position of leadership, vision and inspiration for your organization are having that question, it tells you there is something very disturbing at the heart of the Church," said Rev. denBok, who is a pastor at a Toronto parish.

"By even asking that question, we are acting as if we are a human organization rather than a God organization. It is a [national leadership] that is profoundly flawed with no strong sense of purpose or direction or destiny."

She also said the relationship between the leadership and the congregations had become "parasitic." "They are sucking money out of the congregations ... taking huge amounts of money to run structures, to hire staff whose job is to look after committees whose job it is to meet with staff."

Like most mainstream Protestant denominations, the United Church of Canada has seen dramatic drops in membership. There are now 3,400 United Church congregations; since 1996, the Church has lost about 460 parishes. The Church reports a membership of 558,000, down 21% since 1996.

Rev. denBok, who will be on tonight's panel, said the United Church has moved from being a Christ-centred body to become a "government-sponsored social club" in which all classic Christian doctrines are open to question.

She points to Gretta Vosper, a fellow minister who recently wrote a book called With Or Without God, as a prime example of what is wrong. Ms. Vosper, who disdains the title Reverend, said she does not believe in anything remotely Christian, let alone anything religious: not God, not the divinity of Jesus, nor the sacraments or the centrality of the Bible in Church life.

"I cannot really fathom with integrity why she works within the broad spectrum of United Church theology and practice," Rev. denBok said. "But I think Gretta is simply the visible symptom of much deeper malaise."

Rev. denBok said the leadership sets the tone for the kind of theological training that is taught in seminaries, and the result has been a disaster.

"If we had a medical school that kept turning out graduates who consistently killed their patients, would we not ask some questions about the education?"

David Giuliano, the Moderator of the United Church, said the title of the panel discussion was meant to be provocative -- not a call for the denomination's demise -- because the Church is living through a time of "chaos and confusion." He said one of the reasons for that confusion is that the Church has been pushed to the margins of society.

"People are nostalgic for the days when the pews were packed and coffers were full, when we had a place of privilege in the secular community, as well. But to be honest, I think we're coming out of that and to a place where we're making peace with not being a social club but actually being communities of discipleship. But it is also quite clear to me that the centre of our common life is Jesus and the vision he held up for his followers on Earth."

As for Ms. Vosper, he said her position in the Church is consistent with what he thinks is the true message of Jesus.

"I don't remember Jesus requiring anyone to subscribe to a doctrine before he healed them. I don't remember Jesus requiring anybody being saved before he ate with them. In terms of my understanding of Jesus, it was one of radical inclusion of people of many perspectives. And to suggest that one needs to subscribe to a narrow understanding of who God is and who Jesus is seems antithetical to the understanding I have of Jesus revealed in the Gospels."

Rev. denBok said she is not expecting a warm reception tonight but feels it is important that someone raise the question on which she believes the entire future of the Church turns.

"We have a huge number of deeply demoralized clergy, congregations dwindling and dying, and either we say, 'Gosh, we've hit a dead end and should consider changing direction,' or we say, 'Our direction has been a good and righteous one and we're not getting anywhere with it and we should shut the whole organization down."

 

Just kidding with the title. We can only hope they choose plan B, shutting it down. Of course, probably not going to happen, but the numbers are comforting. The fact that even the people on the inside see their religion in a losing battle with the reality based community can only be described as "a good thing."

 

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


I AM GOD AS YOU
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.... a good thing , smashing

.... a good thing , smashing Dogma to bits .... pull all the punches , atheist Jesus did try ....  hear them words, "I AM ONE with the nitty gritty SHIT" , me Jesus ! SO ATHEIST was that Jesus !       .....YEP.....

       Ever read the moses / jesus book ??? NO GOD before ME ! I am GOD !  (?)

                                                   NO IDOLS

      Then is religion ..... WTF? ..... see them hypnotized religious sheep ???  HEAL THEM .... SAVE THEM blind fools .... for  g a w e d  sakes ..... shezzzzz , gezzzzz, ..... gosh all mighty .....

                                                             ONE

                                                    What ain't ? GOD ?

                                               as religion always LIES

YOU are god as I, as everything, as every atom is equally the force , as so many call  it "god" , as I , as you are ONE , by any NAME ..... by any definition .... all is ONE ......

                                                           SIMPLE

                                                         *  ONE  *  

                               ... and what was the argument again ???

                        ... the religious disagreements are WHAT again ???

             Hey YOU religious ones , you dividers,  never minding your Bull Shit ,

                                                     FUCK YOU < ________________________