Faith Healing Families - Disturbing and Dangerous

AtheistAviB
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Faith Healing Families - Disturbing and Dangerous

 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,368863,00.html I have sourced the website (story) from whence my anger and confusion is coming, but will still relay a concise version of the events that have led to the untimely and unnecessary death of another child. Neil Beagley, 16, is dead as a result of an easily treatable "urinary tract blockage". This ailment could have been easily resolved had he gone through a minor procedure involving doctors with medical knowledge and a catheter. Sounds easy enough, but nay; God was going to take care of it. He would do so in quite the same way he took care of Neil's cousin's illness. Oh, that's right. He DIDN'T. Neil's death has occurred just months after his 15 month old cousin Ava died of a blood infection and pneumonia, neither of which are fatal if doctors are informed within a relatively normal period of time. I will avoid one issue that the article comments on, that of his age and the legality of his own decision-making capabilities. That is for another time and another note. However, on what planet does a 16 year old and/or his parents need be informed of the usefulness and the efficiency of medical care? I would say "in what country", but even in countries where there is little outside influence or the government is religiously led the citizens are well aware of the necessity for and efficiency of medical treatment. How sheltered and brainwashed must one be to live in a world where illnesses are a plague of God's wrath and cures are a blessing of God's mercy? It's almost enough to make one speechless, to draw breath out of the mouths of those who are as confused and taken aback as I by acts of such a deluded nature. Who convinces these people that life is merely a gift from God, something that is his to grant and his to revoke? Who warps the mind of the young and convinces them to play along with a game so dangerous and potentially disastrous? This all taking place in the 21st century makes one even more befuddled. Are the thousands of vanquished illness and the hundreds of millions of cured individuals not enough proof that science (specifically medicine) has brought us farther than any God could have even been imagined to? Are we so wrapped up in the hope for an afterlife and the orgasmic feelings produced by our brains that we confuse physical processes for supernatural ones? How far must we come before we can abandon superstition and welcome intellectual progress? How many deaths must the human race endure before we come together to put an end to unnecessary calamity and unneeded demise? Or perhaps I'm crazy. Perhaps God just didn't want to help Neil, or his cousin Ava, or the billions of dead people who prayed their hearts out without ever being miraculously cured by the loving embrace of God. Maybe God didn't actually cure people until we realized how to do it ourselves. Somehow, God always seems a step behind us, or maybe he's riding along on our shoulder (or hanging onto our coattails, as that may be more properly expressed). Wherever he is, it's not ahead of the curve. He isn't curing ailments that aren't medically treatable. He isn't growing back limbs for the handicapped. He isn't putting an end to torture, disease, decay, death, illness, insanity, etc. We've done all of that on our own; and hopefully, the future will bring more cures, and more love, and more quick-fixes for our ailing brethren. But whatever the future brings, it will be our doing. It will be the product of mounds of evidence, work, and years of labour by humans fighting to make the world a less painful, and consequently, more enjoyable place. I care not whether this comes off as a rant or an intellectual attack on troublesome nonsense. All I care is that others recognize as well that this plague upon our society needs to be stopped.

 


AtheistAviB
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 Whoops:

 Whoops:




http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,368863,00.html

I have sourced the website (story) from whence my anger and confusion is coming, but will still relay a concise version of the events that have led to the untimely and unnecessary death of another child.

Neil Beagley, 16, is dead as a result of an easily treatable "urinary tract blockage". This ailment could have been easily resolved had he gone through a minor procedure involving doctors with medical knowledge and a catheter. Sounds easy enough, but nay; God was going to take care of it. He would do so in quite the same way he took care of Neil's cousin's illness. Oh, that's right. He DIDN'T. Neil's death has occurred just months after his 15 month old cousin Ava died of a blood infection and pneumonia, neither of which are fatal if doctors are informed within a relatively normal period of time.

I will avoid one issue that the article comments on, that of his age and the legality of his own decision-making capabilities. That is for another time and another note. However, on what planet does a 16 year old and/or his parents need be informed of the usefulness and the efficiency of medical care? I would say "in what country", but even in countries where there is little outside influence or the government is religiously led the citizens are well aware of the necessity for and efficiency of medical treatment. How sheltered and brainwashed must one be to live in a world where illnesses are a plague of God's wrath and cures are a blessing of God's mercy?

It's almost enough to make one speechless, to draw breath out of the mouths of those who are as confused and taken aback as I by acts of such a deluded nature. Who convinces these people that life is merely a gift from God, something that is his to grant and his to revoke? Who warps the mind of the young and convinces them to play along with a game so dangerous and potentially disastrous? This all taking place in the 21st century makes one even more befuddled.

Are the thousands of vanquished illness and the hundreds of millions of cured individuals not enough proof that science (specifically medicine) has brought us farther than any God could have even been imagined to? Are we so wrapped up in the hope for an afterlife and the orgasmic feelings produced by our brains that we confuse physical processes for supernatural ones? How far must we come before we can abandon superstition and welcome intellectual progress? How many deaths must the human race endure before we come together to put an end to unnecessary calamity and unneeded demise?

Or perhaps I'm crazy. Perhaps God just didn't want to help Neil, or his cousin Ava, or the billions of dead people who prayed their hearts out without ever being miraculously cured by the loving embrace of God. Maybe God didn't actually cure people until we realized how to do it ourselves. Somehow, God always seems a step behind us, or maybe he's riding along on our shoulder (or hanging onto our coattails, as that may be more properly expressed). Wherever he is, it's not ahead of the curve. He isn't curing ailments that aren't medically treatable. He isn't growing back limbs for the handicapped. He isn't putting an end to torture, disease, decay, death, illness, insanity, etc. We've done all of that on our own; and hopefully, the future will bring more cures, and more love, and more quick-fixes for our ailing brethren. But whatever the future brings, it will be our doing. It will be the product of mounds of evidence, work, and years of labour by humans fighting to make the world a less painful, and consequently, more enjoyable place.

I care not whether this comes off as a rant or an intellectual attack on troublesome nonsense. All I care is that others recognize as well that this plague upon our society needs to be stopped.


MattShizzle
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When are people going to

When are people going to realize prayer doesn't fucking work? Thpugh the good that comes out of this is it does reduced a little bit the number of stupid people.

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Eloise
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I share your sentiment,

I share your sentiment, AviB, though I might not entirely agree with your take on the situation. That is, I'm not so sure it is naivete that motivates these faith healer types to stand by their monstrous decisions, I think it's hubris and belligerence. They perceive themselves as being involved in some kind of a war against reason and the good intentions of other humans, they see these things as the enemy of their "salvation".

They know medicine works, I'm sure, and they know our science is accurate in identifying and solving our daily problems and inconveniences, sometimes not as acutely aware as they should be of how reliant on these things they actually are and how thus logically inconsistent their beliefs are because of that, for example they reject doctors but not SUV's or stylish down-lights or microwave ovens, but they are aware enough to have some conscious notion of themselves striking out against it through 'faith healing' (read: killing) to go on with.

Now this is just how I have observed the situation but it seems to me that what they are believing is that science and reason and human 'achievement' in general works against "salvation" , that as long as humans are acting in defiance of their creator (by striving for independent thought and action) then humanity is doomed to punishment at judgement day and they are charged by their book with the responsibility to give their lives or their children's lives to save others from what they perceive as the evil force and path to hell.

In this warped line of reasoning, sparing the child a slow painful death is not a priority, and losing the child is not philosophically, though it might be emotionally, an issue. That is, the child dying doesn't prove God, Prayer or Faith wrong, it proves the power the evil one has over the rest of humanity or some shit like that, and it proves "to God" their willingness to make sacrifices for the sake of others.

So I think that there is some sophistication to the thinking behind this nonsense, and its because of this more complex reasoning, not necessarily stubborn or simplistic ignorance of the evidence, that these horrors are being so difficult to subvert and rid ourselves of.

Just my 2c

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MattShizzle
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I can just picture this

I can just picture this scene with them arriving before God:

 

Idiot "God, why didn't you heal me? I prayed!"

 

God "Why didn't you go to the doctor you dumb motherfucker! Can't you see I'm busy with puting Jesus's face on pancakes and making sure Emmy Sue doesn't have a zit for her date! I don't have time for that healing people and preventing disasters nonsense!"

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latincanuck
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It's something else

Complete blind faith, which in turn twists their rational thinking and ability to properly make a decision (Shit this isn't working lets take him to a doctor that would be logical,  but now for them it's shit this isn't working must pray harder). I have unfortunately met these types of hardcore believers, that god will save them or heal others through them, and you can't take them to a doctor because your saving their soul and the doctors can't do that, so a doctor can't really heal/save them). It's complete utter bullshit. However you really cannot reason with someone that has that much blind faith in this crap. God isn't real, it never has been real, it never has done anything, it has never fucking done ONE fucking miracle, cured anyone from cancer or any other fucking disease. God(s) is just an imagination, god has never showed himself, never in modern times at all, yet god(s) is everywhere in ancient times in every holy book, but shit not that we can test/prove it in scientific manners, nope can't show up mow.

However we can't just arrest these idiots, because oh it's infringing on their religious rights. Nothing can be done until someone get injured. no this type of stupidity should be outlawed. There is evidence at all, none AT All that faith healing works. They should be arrested for fraud and deceptive practices, because that's all it is.


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Okay, I realize this is

Okay, I realize this is pretty insensitive of me, but whenever I read about this kind of thing happening, a few phrases come to mind:

Natural Selection

You Reap What You Sow


Jesus H. Parabola
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Mark 5:25-28 - "And a

Mark 5:25-28 - "And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole."

Mark 16:17-18 - "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Now, call me biased since I work in medicine, but I find this god-damned disgusting. How many innocent children need to die due to their parents' negligence before we realize what a crock the Bible is?


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Jesus H. Parabola wrote:Mark

Jesus H. Parabola wrote:

Mark 5:25-28 - "And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole."

Mark 16:17-18 - "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Now, call me biased since I work in medicine, but I find this god-damned disgusting. How many innocent children need to die due to their parents' negligence before we realize what a crock the Bible is?

Well actually the main point I left out was that the state within which they live has 14 years old as the age of allowance for denying medical care.



 

Fucking insane.


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Quote:Mark 5:25-28 - "And a

Quote:
Mark 5:25-28 - "And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole."

You do notice she did try the doctor's first?  Nothing at all wrong with prayer, but God gave us the doctors as well.

"With its enduring appeal to the search for truth, philosophy has the great responsibility of forming thought and culture; and now it must strive resolutely to recover its original vocation." Pope John Paul II


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totus_tuus wrote:Quote:Mark

totus_tuus wrote:

Quote:
Mark 5:25-28 - "And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole."

You do notice she did try the doctor's first?  Nothing at all wrong with prayer, but God gave us the doctors as well.

Did "God" also give us the scientists ?

I'd say that most medical knowledge has come from the skepticism of "God" camp rather than the believer group or medicine would seem unnecessary.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell


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totus_tuus wrote:Quote:Mark

totus_tuus wrote:

Quote:
Mark 5:25-28 - "And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole."

You do notice she did try the doctor's first?  Nothing at all wrong with prayer, but God gave us the doctors as well.

 

When I read this verse my understanding is that she suffered many things (attempts to cure her) by many different physicians. The fact that they could not help her is of absolutely no surprise since at that time in our history we had so very little scientific knowledge.... and why was that ? Predoninantly because, like the big bully on the block, virtually every religion in the world wasn't interested in the pursuit of science, medicine, or even the facts that might lead to real knowledge. Instead religions were mostly busy keeping those things pinned to the ground or trampled underfoot while filling the minds of their fearful followers with the gates of hell, the devil is due and other ass-orted $hit of a bull. Oh, and leading them on with "sweet things" like heavenly hymns and the idea of hope (you'll be saved and live F-O-R-E-V-E-R) that could never, ever reach a point of becoming unreasonable.

Yes, sarcasm was necessary on that last part.

 


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QuasarX wrote:Okay, I

QuasarX wrote:

Okay, I realize this is pretty insensitive of me, but whenever I read about this kind of thing happening, a few phrases come to mind:

Natural Selection

You Reap What You Sow

You do know that's not natural selection, right?

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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Thomathy wrote:QuasarX

Thomathy wrote:

QuasarX wrote:

Okay, I realize this is pretty insensitive of me, but whenever I read about this kind of thing happening, a few phrases come to mind:

Natural Selection

You Reap What You Sow

You do know that's not natural selection, right?

Sure it is. Humans are natural.  All things are natural, ergo its natural selection. Smiling

Sounds made up...
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