Greydon Square attacks Brian Sapient (later pleas guilty)
Offline Brian, I realize that words alone aren't worth much, but since I have nothing else to offer you:
I just wanted to give you my deepest sympathies. I'm quite sure Greydon hurt more than just your head when he attacked you. I am very sorry to hear that this happened to you, as well as the other tragedy you mentioned but did not want to discuss.
Bad things like that shouldn't happen to good people like yourself. The fact that they do will always be the most compelling evidence, to me, that there is no magical force looking out for the best interests of the meek or altruistic. It's a bleak world, sometimes, which is why I think it's so important we show kindness, compassion and companionship to one another.
[thread moved from members only to general conversation, and added "the now official greydon attacks thread" to title by RRS core]
'We accepted the products of science. We rejected it's methods.'
- Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Huh? What happened?
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
Was that the great RRS Brian37 ? Go revolution .... No Masters.
Say again about Brian???
Thanks for saying that Kevin. It's nice to have the support of the community. Now let's all just pray to Jake that Greydon gets the help he needs and overcomes this struggle. I'll be fine in the long term, or as fine as can be under the circumstances.
P.S. This is why I never leave the house. (anyone hearing me yet... wink at Kelly and Rook)
He's not the man he wants you to think he is. Go to The Real John McCain to learn about the double talk express. View these videos about John McCain to learn about the flip-flopping double talker. Help me get rid of a transferable credit with Southwest Airlines and you'll save $60.
Uh, what happened?
Will: no gyration without funkstification.
I'm with his Willness, you've got everyone curious as all done out; what the hell happened!!!!!!!!!?
jeffrick
Same here - if it's something that it wasn't wanted for the rest of us to know about you should have just pm'd him.
Brian and a number of other people from the RRS were at a secular humanist convention in the Washington District of Columbia. Greydon Square was there to both promote his CD and simply be another atheistic representative.
Greydon is, as I understand it, bipolar - and was not taking his medication. He confronted Brian at the convention over a paranoid delusion he'd developed as a result, regarding the CDs that Brian and bought and was selling at the convention (feeling that he was somehow being taken advantage of, regardless of the fact that these were CDs Brian had already paid Greydon for), and psychotically attacked and attempted to beat Brian to death (nearly succeeding in the endeavor).
Brian explained this story to the best of his ability to as many people as possible on Stickam, just after getting out of the hospital. He looked like he'd been hit by a truck.
To say the least, Greydon's in prison right now, charges are pending.
Such a waste.
'We accepted the products of science. We rejected it's methods.'
- Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Man, that's awful. Sucks he did that - he's such a talented artist and apparently intelligent enough to be going for an advanced physics degree. People on psychotropic meds really need to keep taking them unless told otherwise by their doctor. I know if I stopped taking mine I'd probably attemp suicide again. Brian, I hope you're feeling better after all that.
nothing but love for you kevin but that came out beyond canadian...
Beltway Atheists "We're good people, just not god people."
Brian,
I'm sure you've had other threats, but to have someone you trusted turn on you is reprehensible. I'm sure myself and countless others wish you a speedy recovery. The mental part, I realize, is the most difficult to overcome.
Miracles don't exist. "Miracle" is a word given to a preposterous event that a theist considers dogmatically advantageous. Def. - Ecclesiastical sensationalism.
Take it easy Brian (as if). Here's hoping you'll both be patched up and good to go soon.
As an aside for everyone, if you've not already seen it and don't have personal experience with that particular disorder I recommend Stephen Fry's deeply personal and disarmingly honest documentary detailing his own struggle with manic depression and that of more severe sufferers. "The Secret Life of the Manic Depressive," filmed for and released by the BBC.
Stop that... It's silly.
Didn't Christina Ricci do some independent movie about a really smart girl who was bipolar?
If superior creatures from space ever visit earth, the first question they will ask, in order to assess the level of our civilization, is: 'Have they discovered evolution yet?' -- Richard Dawkins
Holy shit.
I had no idea.
This sucks on so many levels.
Brian, I hope you're doing better.
On edit: This really bothers me because if Greydon wasn't on medication, he isn't entirely responsible for his actions. Yet I'm extremely concerned about Brian. No winners here. It just plain sucks.
I have a severe form of unipolar depression. I've never developed delusions or psychoses. I've never become violent toward others. However, my doctor just tried to change one of my medications (sans psychiatrist because there aren't any good ones in this county). I've been at the edge of a panic attack for about two weeks as a result. I think (hope?) I'm turning the corner. It got so bad that at several points I was like, "Please, I'll believe in anything, god...just fix me!" Of course, I don't believe in god, nor do I think I could make myself, but it was that bad. I've been an atheist for many years and haven't felt anything like this in quite some time.
Mental illness is awful, especially because of the stigma and loss of self-respect that often follow. For Greydon it's hard enough to be a black atheist. Once he's well enough to realize what he's done to Brian (and probably his own career), he's going to be in a lot of pain. I'm with Brian: Let's pray to Jake that Greydon gets the help he needs.
Again: Brian, I'm sorry this happened to you. Rest well. What a huge shock to you, both mentally and physically.
__| ]2 U ]{ /\__]\[ /\ ]\/[ | ]\[ () ]2 |__
Not only is his version of the story delusional, but he was completely unprovoked, and impenetrable to reason.
As for Greydon CD's that have not been sent out... as I stated in the chat, I found out just recently that the volunteer who agreed to send them stopped sending them, leaving me high and dry as of April 1st. Of the Cd's sold 3 or 4 people disputed the charge with paypal and were refunded their money. Not only will everyone who purchased a CD be sent their CD in the near future, but even the people who disputed the charge and were refunded their money will receive a CD for the inconvenience.
Some other bullet points...
- The RRS has no current plans of ever supporting Greydon again.
- RRS would like to officially disassociate itself from Greydon. However, ironically Greydon commented that "I'm still RRS because RRS is everyone" and in some respects he is right. Calling yourself part of our team doesn't necessitate being a paid member, or a board member, or anything other than the acceptance of our ideas and how to inject them into society. It should be noted however that we never condone physical violence against another, let alone people who built your career as a means of controlling a situation.
- Greydon has not only displayed no remorse, but has stated that he took it easy on me. UPDATE: GREYDON EXPRESSED REMORSE (6-12-08)
- we have reason to believe his attack was premeditated
- Greydon doesn't take his meds because he feels it hinders his creativity
- Greydon has and is downplaying this story as if he did nothing to little wrong UPDATE: GREYDON EXPRESSED REMORSE (6-12-08)
- everything was done to remain civil and to calm Greydon down so our friendship could be restored and he could understand the reasons behind any issues he had, he seemed disinterested in any peaceful resolution.
- Greydon was not just upset at CD sales, he had a string of reasons, many also with gaping logic holes. Like for example I don't call him enough, when in reality I had no number for him, and he had mine. At our house we were frustrated with him for months for being so hard to contact and making himself unavailable, however none of us are barbaric enough to ever consider fighting as a means of resolution.
- my loved ones and several RRS supporters are livid with Greydon and insistent that he see his day in court.
- a stay away (order of protection) was issued by the court against Greydon
- he spent approximately 48 hours in jail.
- we at the RRS house, and RRS as an organization is a pacifistic one. We are willing to recognize that his brutality doesn't warrant physical retaliation as he was likely in the midst of a mental breakdown due to his disease. My intent was not to fight back, but merely to defend myself from his viciousness, and still to this day I have a lot of love for him, and understanding that his biggest flaw was not taking his meds.
Again, please pray to Jake for him.
This new blog summarizes some of what happened and also a frustration with the non skeptical atheists, his account is a recall of my own info and possibly one of the witnesses. Some of this isn't entirely accurate but since the rumor machine is in full effect I thought it would be better to post some of the comments that at least come close to hitting the mark...
Here are some other comments with a high degree of accuracy, the first of which is from Joe who also posted the blog above that he started just today in the face of the irrational and hateful atheists (welcome to my world Joe)
From Kelly on another blog...
Here is a record of Greydons last arrest: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/97243
Greydon responded to that here with laughter and an admission that he beat someone up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8ndyyeIUcw (UPDATE: it appears Greydon removed the video, however prosecutors do indeed have a copy)
Let it be noted that as a friend I did my best to keep this last event under wraps, and still wish him no ill will, and instead hope he gets the treatment he needs.
UPDATE: ALL CD's WERE SENT OUT, also the case in court is the US gov vs Greydon (even if I wanted to drop the charges, I couldn't)
He's not the man he wants you to think he is. Go to The Real John McCain to learn about the double talk express. View these videos about John McCain to learn about the flip-flopping double talker. Help me get rid of a transferable credit with Southwest Airlines and you'll save $60.
Two words: Eric Harris.
Two more words: Ted Bundy
Four more words: WHY WON'T PEOPLE LEARN!?!?
I've already seen that video response Greydon made after his prior arrest. Guess what it's full of? Gloating and contempt. It's not simply a case of remorse: he's glad he did it, h'es glad he got the attention for doing it and he's all so impressed with himself that he can hide behind his amicable smokescreen so well.
He's a clinical sociopath, and it wouldn't take a professional criminal psychologist more than 30 minutes to diagnose him as such. He should be behind bars for the rest of his life, for the safety of everyone around him.
If it were my world, he'd be fertilizer by now, and there'd be no need to worry about it. But that's for another thread...
'We accepted the products of science. We rejected it's methods.'
- Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Hey Greydon
HEAL you FUCKING BROTHER ATHEIST ASSHOLE
a CD of apology would help us ALL .....
FWIW: There is no evidence to suggest that cd sales increased as a result of people hating on him in reference to his last arrest (as he suggests in that old video)
He's not the man he wants you to think he is. Go to The Real John McCain to learn about the double talk express. View these videos about John McCain to learn about the flip-flopping double talker. Help me get rid of a transferable credit with Southwest Airlines and you'll save $60.
"God Bedring" Brian, as they say here in Norway. Sounds very religious but it just means "get well soon".
Greydon sounds like a piece of crap who can't figure out himself how he's content to use people he doesn't really like to make a buck but hates himself for doing it - too vain to admit he's a parasite and too thick to express his confusion except through violence.
Bipolar my ass. I know many people with that diagnosis, and none of them use it as an excuse to be vicious.
And stop that praying to Jake for his health nonsense too! If you're going to go all patronisingly dippy like a religionist then pray that he picks an argument with an oncoming juggernaut in the near future - or else wises up.
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
He's bipolar, not a sociopath. My brother's bipolar, and he has the same kind of strange behaviour. The giddiness, especially when in bad situations, is typical (from what I understand) and it's more of a coping mechanism. If he goes back on medication (which should be court-ordered) and still doesn't express any kind of remorse, then you're talking about a completely different thing.
Anyway, I've had that kind of beating bestowed upon me, Brian, so I feel your pain. Of course, in my case, it was a sporting event, so it's not quite the same. I'm with you in hoping Greydon gets the help he needs.
Will: no gyration without funkstification.
Brian,
My absolute sympathies. It's bad enough when a friend turns on you, but to have it be physical like that... I can't even begin to imagine.
I hope Greydon eventually comprehends what he's done.
Speedy recovery, my friend.
Shouldn't his picture be removed from the banner at the top?
Yes, all in due time.
As for the familiarity with bi-polar... Kelly was married and physically abused by someone with bi-polar for years, it does fit. The public thought he was the greatest most amazing man on Earth, behind closed doors it was an uncontrollable rage of violence. I was behind closed doors with Greydon.
He's not the man he wants you to think he is. Go to The Real John McCain to learn about the double talk express. View these videos about John McCain to learn about the flip-flopping double talker. Help me get rid of a transferable credit with Southwest Airlines and you'll save $60.
I've also had personal experience with someone, who I at first really cared about, with bipolar disorder. It lasted about 6 months. I know each individual case is a little bit different, however, from my involvement with her I've developed a prejudice. I'm sorry.
If I find out someone is bipolar, I walk away. Goodbye, adiós, see ya, and good luck. I do not ever want to even be in the same room or the same neighborhood, or even talk to a bipolar on the telephone from a different city, medication or not. They are a timebomb. The question is not 'if' but 'when' will they explode.
It was extremely painful to endure.
Perhaps I should list fear of bipolars along with flying as one of my irrational fears in the other thread
Greydon should be prosecuted. It's obvious he's a danger to himself and others as long as he's refusing to take his meds. If he wont monitor himself, then he should be put into custodial care of the state. That's just my opinion though.
Brian I'm sorry I wasn't there. I would have tried my best to get him off of you even if it meant taking a few shots myself for you. You don't deserve that shit.
Oh, and your next three prayers are granted preprayer.
Come join me at my blog AfterFaith or on the forums at The Atheist Network.
Bipolar or any other form of depression does not make you violent against others (it can make you self destructive) and I'm a little concerned that this is giving a bad reputation to suffers
There are a few mental illnesses that can cause violence but in the majority of cases violent people are just bad people.
The majority of manic depressive people won't get violent - however from the description he sounds like he's at the psychotic level of the disorder - based on his irrational behavior and delusional beliefs. They can get violent. Remember - psychotic basically means someone is at the point in a mental illness that they are out of touch with reality. I myself suffer from major depression (no manic phase.) In his case someone that cares about him needs to be watching him - in fact being n jail might be better - because if he goes into a depressive phase he's likely to be suicidal - and that one song "Dear Journal" indicates he has been in the past.