About god and perfect beings.

carx
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About god and perfect beings.

I have been thinking about perfect beings for some time , god is supposed to be perfect however the logical extrapolation of attributes makes god (of the bible or any text ) imperfect and ridicules stupid. Perfection is a absolutist scale we can imagine a car that is fast and we can observe a car that is faster and imagine it too , however a perfect cars needed to travel instantaneously or have south a speed that you cant win a race against it ever.

 

Lets  take a look in the good old bible and we se a ridicules god that is unable to create the universe instantaneously but requires 6 days or more to create every thing. Silly a perfect being can do it instantaneously and if god is clamed to be perfect he fails .

I remember some middle age theologian who clamed god is necessary because he needs to be the most perfect thing that you can think of or something however the standard god fails at the start.

 

Next a perfect being cant change since if it can make itself more perfect then the perfection before its upgrade is les perfect and we cant speak of a perfect being who can continiusly upgrade itself and overrule its previous perfection . So a perfect being cant learn or change his mined and (I can feel the Christian apologist will love this) kill itself because that constitutes change however with this in mined a PB cant have emotions it cant love or hate it’s a impossibility a perfect being will stay in its perfect state.  Maybe a PB will have some bizarre type of emotions like a psychopath that cant empathies with the world or get influenced via it and stays in its lop of emotions for all eternity however we will ignore south type of “emotions” since we are concerned only with emotions like compassion or love. Because of this unchangines a PB cant be influenced (prayer doesn’t work EVER ) it follows that it needs all knowingness and all powerfulness to not get tricked or make a mistake. Since it wouldn’t be a PB if it failed.

 

Lets contrasts this with god if he is loving that means his addicted and you can harm him , torture him or manipulate him. Think it in this way if I cant kill super man than I destroy every one he loves and make him suffer or blackmail him holding his family hostage. Imagine it if god is loving than you can black mail him like “god give me a pony or I torture Christians to make you feel bad ” or  “I give you my division if you give me a pony ! Com on don’t you like love the sweat addictive love ?”. The question with the error of love is how many is needed to be don in order to seriously get control or make some real harm to god. Contrast it with a PB with cant suffer since it constitutes a change in itself therefore its impossible .

 

Besides if you take any bible verse you can imagine that it can be done more perfect more fast or more efficient. Noah’s  flood if you need to clean the land of sinners why use south imperfect methods ? Why not snap every sinner out of existence (like in the left behind series  , ops a Christian can imagine something more powerful then god Blasphemy and HERECY ) it goes fast and efficient and makes a hell of a impression besides the animals , plants and infrastructure don’t suffer. Is it the work of god or a superstitious man who needed a explanation why his home got flooded ?

 

Please post your reflections/opinion/apologies :

Warning I’m not a native English speaker.

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Eloise
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carx wrote:Because of this

carx wrote:

Because of this unchangines a PB cant be influenced (prayer doesn’t work EVER )

that's quite brilliant of you, Carx, well said. 

A little help with your English before I go on, the word you need to coin here is 'unchangingness'; this is otherwise referred to as "immutability".

 

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Louis_Cypher
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Imperfection

Perfection... loving... the attributes that allow so much apolagistic rhetoric. That and the weird quality of 'unfathomable'...

The god of the bible taken as described is a monster. Wildly vindictive, sadistic in his apparant joy in pointless bloodshed and overkill.

Yet, we hear how perfect he is...how loving... how gosh darned wonderful that we just can't understand that all the vile and disgusting acts he commits are really for our own good. Unfathomable...

I've heard them say, that god HAD to kill all those babies because in his wisdom he knew that they'd grow up to do bad things...all of them...babies... "Unfathomable."

He tells us lust is wrong...coveting is wrong... yet we can take the virgins for ourselves... Unfathomable, perfect.

He made two people, and they became evil... he told them to go out and multiply... evil x evil equals more evil... and god was surprised and angry that their offspring were evil... perfectly surprised, perfectly unfathomable.

God drowned them all, the babies born into evil...the puppies...the lambs... all of them evil....

God repented because he killed them... unfathomable...repentance... perfect repentence...

He let them grow, and multiply from the loins of a drunkard... perfect...

He went down, his own perfect, unfathomable self... and let them kill him so he could decide whicdh ones he would torture in perfect love...for eternity...

Unfathomable.

 

LC >;-}>

 

 

 

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


Llama
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I think maybe you use old

I think maybe you use old testament as an excuse not to pay attention to god and what he wants for your life. Old testament was before Jesus and before christianity. Instead of paying so much literal attention to the old testament why not learn more about Jesus and his teachings, for he is the light and the way.

 

Please remember you are with out excuse, god gave you every thing you needed to love and obey him. ignorance of spiritual law will not give you a get out of hell card when you die. You play a nice trick on yourself.

Bleeeat!


carx
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Llama wrote:I think maybe

Llama wrote:

I think maybe you use old testament as an excuse not to pay attention to god and what he wants for your life. Old testament was before Jesus and before christianity. Instead of paying so much literal attention to the old testament why not learn more about Jesus and his teachings, for he is the light and the way.

 

Please remember you are with out excuse, god gave you every thing you needed to love and obey him. ignorance of spiritual law will not give you a get out of hell card when you die. You play a nice trick on yourself.

HAHAHAHA
HAHAHA
LOL 
Bring  it on uuu I go to hell UUU I live in hel already HAHA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel,_Poland HAHA.


Ignoring the old testament and your promise to send me to my home town lets see XD.


My rent here is concerned with every clam about any god (including jesus ) and why is jesus so imperfect ? Why the need to teach ? why no implant his teachings in our DNA ? why not give every human the knowledge of his teachings instantaneously after he got on earth ? This teaching methods is imperfect , therefore Jesus cant teach perfectly , therefore jesus is imperfect next.
 

 

 

Warning I’m not a native English speaker.

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Llama wrote:I think maybe

Llama wrote:

I think maybe you use old testament as an excuse not to pay attention to god and what he wants for your life. Old testament was before Jesus and before christianity. Instead of paying so much literal attention to the old testament why not learn more about Jesus and his teachings, for he is the light and the way.

 

Please remember you are with out excuse, god gave you every thing you needed to love and obey him. ignorance of spiritual law will not give you a get out of hell card when you die. You play a nice trick on yourself.

Speaking of cards: I wonder what your hand looks like, Llama?

It must be pretty awesome, what with all the investment you've made into the afterlife concept. I don't usually go all-in before the flop unless I've got a pocket full of rockets (Shh! Trade secret!) - but hey, they're your chips.

 

Just FYI, though, there's a few tells you're showing that don't breed the notion of confidence (don't sweat at the table! Wear deodorant on your forehead if you have to!):

 - The Old Testament and New Testament are not mutually exculsive. Each leans on the other. Jesus was a pretty bad guy - afterall, it was him doing all that terrible stuff in the Old Testament to begin with (prior to taking-on a fleshy form).

 - Even flesh-bound Jesus wasn't so nice. He endorsed mysogynism, racism, slavery and damnation whole-heartedly.

 - God, a being from beyond time and space, with the properties of omniscience and omnipotence, cannot 'want' anything for my life. 'Want' implies a goal one must strive to reach. An omnipotent and omniscient body cannot strive for anything.

 - The Old Testament, like the New Testament, was strictly an allegorical story. This is obvious. It's you who are mistakenly taking it literally by claiming Jesus was a real person.

 - God did not give me everything I needed to believe in him. This is also obvious. If he had done this, I would obviously believe in him. At best, God is a being from beyond time and space who burns people forever when there's absolutely no need for it.

Why burn me forever at all? The concept is absurd. Apparently God is omnisuperficial and omnijealous (as stated in the Old Testament), because there's no rational reason to burn someone for all eternity (most certainly me not taking someone's word at face value without evidence isn't a good reason).

Justify my alleged eternal torment to me, Llama. Provide what you feel is a reasonable excuse for burning someone alive, and keeping them in that state indefinately, because they simply have doubts and perhaps insult you occasionally. Furthermore, explain why whatever reason you give does not apply on a human level - why it would be unacceptable for me to, say, turn a flamethrower on someone for calling me a name.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


hazindu
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Llama wrote:I think maybe

Llama wrote:

I think maybe you use old testament as an excuse not to pay attention to god and what he wants for your life. Old testament was before Jesus and before christianity. Instead of paying so much literal attention to the old testament why not learn more about Jesus and his teachings, for he is the light and the way.

 

Please remember you are with out excuse, god gave you every thing you needed to love and obey him. ignorance of spiritual law will not give you a get out of hell card when you die. You play a nice trick on yourself.

Are you not aware that the OT is the foundation for the NT?  Do you deny Yahweh because he's an asshole but keep JC because out of ignorance of the Gospels you think he's cool?

How has a god who has never spoken, never been seen, heard, touched or detected by radar given anyone anything?  There is not one shred of evidence that the grumpy old eye in the sky even exists.  Since you want to play the hell card, you should be aware that hell is temporary and dependent on your sins in life.  It is purification for heaven.  This makes sense as you should always torture your grizzly bear before taking him to the circus to pose with little kids for pictures right?  Well anyway, there are only two sins that will see you in hell indefinently: leaving Islam, and believing in the divinity of Christ.  I only bring this up, because unlike your soul eating jewish zombie, Mahammad was a real historical person.

"I've yet to witness circumstance successfully manipulated through the babbling of ritualistic nonsense to an imaginary deity." -- me (josh)

If god can do anything, can he make a hot dog so big even he can't eat all of it?


Thomathy
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Can we slap a theist label

Can we slap a theist label on Llama yet?  It makes me cringe every time I read Llama's stuff and wonder if what's been written was only for kicks or if it was serious.

Llama, are you a theist?

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


carx
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Can someone give me a nice 

Can someone give me a nice  Christian forum where I can post this question It seams we don’t have enough believers here Laughing out loud .

Thanks for the recommendations.
 

Warning I’m not a native English speaker.

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jcgadfly
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hazindu wrote:Llama wrote:I

hazindu wrote:

Llama wrote:

I think maybe you use old testament as an excuse not to pay attention to god and what he wants for your life. Old testament was before Jesus and before christianity. Instead of paying so much literal attention to the old testament why not learn more about Jesus and his teachings, for he is the light and the way.

 

Please remember you are with out excuse, god gave you every thing you needed to love and obey him. ignorance of spiritual law will not give you a get out of hell card when you die. You play a nice trick on yourself.

Are you not aware that the OT is the foundation for the NT?  Do you deny Yahweh because he's an asshole but keep JC because out of ignorance of the Gospels you think he's cool?

How has a god who has never spoken, never been seen, heard, touched or detected by radar given anyone anything?  There is not one shred of evidence that the grumpy old eye in the sky even exists.  Since you want to play the hell card, you should be aware that hell is temporary and dependent on your sins in life.  It is purification for heaven.  This makes sense as you should always torture your grizzly bear before taking him to the circus to pose with little kids for pictures right?  Well anyway, there are only two sins that will see you in hell indefinently: leaving Islam, and believing in the divinity of Christ.  I only bring this up, because unlike your soul eating jewish zombie, Mahammad was a real historical person.

He's just taking the out Paul of Tarsus gave him. He doesn't have to take the OT or the Gospels seriously - he just has to believe.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin