the ten commandments

pm9347
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the ten commandments

hello everybody, i thought i hop on in to deliver some really good rules to live by ,

I am the Lord your God    
You shall have no other gods before me  
You shall not make for yourself an idol  
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God    
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy    
Honor your father and mother    
You shall not murder    
You shall not commit adultery    
You shall not steal    
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor    
You shall not covet your neighbor's house    
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

 

really sorry for some of my text im a little new at this, ...pat


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pm9347 wrote:hello

pm9347 wrote:

hello everybody, i thought i hop on in to deliver some really good rules to live by ,

I am the Lord your GodProve it.    
You shall have no other gods before meI have no reason to believe there are any - including you.  
You shall not make for yourself an idol

Done

  
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your GodNo god, no name, no problem.    
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holyHard to forget when it shows up every week.     
Honor your father and motherI hardly need mythology to do that. Besides, what if they're jerks?    
You shall not murderAgreed.    
You shall not commit adultery Agreed.   
You shall not steal Agreed, mostly.   
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor How much does this witness weigh?   
You shall not covet your neighbor's houseDon't worry. Mine is nicer.      
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

"Covet" is one way of phrasing it.

  

 

Boards don't hit back. (Bruce Lee)


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pm9347 wrote:hello

pm9347 wrote:

hello everybody, i thought i hop on in to deliver some really good rules to live by ,

I am the Lord your God    
You shall have no other gods before me  
You shall not make for yourself an idol  
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God    
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy    
Honor your father and mother    
You shall not murder    
You shall not commit adultery    
You shall not steal    
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor    
You shall not covet your neighbor's house    
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

 

really sorry for some of my text im a little new at this, ...pat

Your bible calls for you to put to death anyone who breaks 7 of the 10 above. 

Maybe you could hop back in in a week or so to deliver the news of how living by those really good rules are working out for you... 

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell


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pm9347 wrote:hello

pm9347 wrote:
hello everybody, i thought i hop on in to deliver some really good rules to live by , really sorry for some of my text im a little new at this, ...pat

Hello, Pat.

pm9347 wrote:

I am the Lord your God

You shall have no other gods before me

This violates the 1st Amendment of the Constitution, in an attempt to establish an official religion.

pm9347 wrote:

You shall not make for yourself an idol

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God

Similarly, a clear violation of the 1st Amendment right of Free Speech.

pm9347 wrote:

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

Why?

What possible benefit ethically or morally could this bring?

Also...which day does one 'keep'?

Saturday IS the Sabbath, but only jews and 7th day Adventists do this one, the rest of christiandom seems to prefer the pagan sabbath celebrating the Sun God...

pm9347 wrote:

Honor your father and mother

Biological kinship in and of itself doesn't call for respect (honor). If mommy is a crack ho', and daddy touches you 'down there' how much 'honor' do they deserve?

pm9347 wrote:
You shall not murder

Good idea...

but I'd wager that the other civilizations that preceded the Jews probably had this one also. Did we really need a god to tell us this?

pm9347 wrote:
You shall not commit adultery

Unless you are a biblical patriarch...

But seriously...with so many conflicting biblical accounts of what a marriage IS, what with all the handmaids and concubines and such it's hard to pin down what constitutes adultery...

pm9347 wrote:
You shall not steal

Unless god tells you to rape and pillage the next village.

Again, an idea that was probably not original with the writer...

pm9347 wrote:
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

This would put the tabloids out of buisness, and bankrupt Fox News.

pm9347 wrote:
You shall not covet your neighbor's house

Now you are attacking capitalism itself.

If I don't covet my neighbor's goods, what incentive to I have to get my OWN stuff?

pm9347 wrote:
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

George Carlin wrote:
What else are ya' gonna think about while you wax your carrot?

Sexual fantasy hurts no one.

Honestly, only three of the ten have any practical meaning, (don't kill, don't steal, don't lie in court). None of these are particularly earth shaking revelations, nor were they original to the writer...

I wonder why christians focus on THESE rules, but shy away from the ones that tell us to stone children, kill non-believers and those who piss against walls.

LC >;-}>

 

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


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pm9347 wrote:hello

pm9347 wrote:

hello everybody, i thought i hop on in to deliver some really good rules to live by ,

I am the Lord your God  (Prove it by delivering 1mill $ in cash, to my door)   

 

You shall have no other gods before me (I would like to have none at all)  
You shall not make for yourself an idol (What about Richard Dawkins Laughing out loud )  
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God (Agreed, we should remove this word from our language, once and for all)    
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy (It's no fakin sabath, it's sun day - it's a day to worship sun, and not your fakin god)    
Honor your father and mother (My biological family is no different than any other people, and they have to earn it)    
You shall not murder (What about criminals? To avenge. Revenge is the holiest thing in the fakin world)    
You shall not commit adultery (But its fun Sad )    
You shall not steal (Is illegal downloads stealing too Laughing out loud )    
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor (Well my neighbors are good people so  agreed)    
You shall not covet your neighbor's house (Agreed)    
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife (Oh shit, shes at least twice older than me)

 

really sorry for some of my text im a little new at this, ...pat


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pm9347 wrote:hello

 

pm9347 wrote:
I am the Lord your God

Well that's debatable.

    

pm9347 wrote:

You shall have no other gods before me

Not very conductive to freedom of belief and repcting other people.

 

  

pm9347 wrote:

You shall not make for yourself an idol

Thank goodness.That show sucks.Anyway, god can't be very good at his job since as he was telling Moses this his people were making a golden calf.

  

pm9347 wrote:

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God

I don't have one,so guess I get a free pass.

 

    

pm9347 wrote:

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

Whatever for? And wasn't the sabbath supposed to be Saturday?So chrisitians aren't keeping it either.Not that they do on Sunday anyway.

    

pm9347 wrote:

Honor your father and mother

Generally I can agree.However,the simple fact of biology does not have to equal love and respect.So kids with abusive parents should still respect them and let their parents do whatever they want to to their kids?

 

    

pm9347 wrote:

You shall not murder

Agreed.I'm sure some versions say 'kill' which is rather diferent.Although funnily,Moses barely made it down the hill from getting these and he killed 3,000.

 

    

pm9347 wrote:

You shall not commit adultery

If you have 300 wives and 700 concubines like Solomon,why would you need to!Let's all do it the bible way.

    

pm9347 wrote:

You shall not steal

Agreed,unless,like someone else said,god tells you to.

    

pm9347 wrote:

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

Agreed.

    

pm9347 wrote:

You shall not covet your neighbor's house

I don't see anything wrong in wanting what others have,as long as you use that want constuctively.

    

pm9347 wrote:
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

As long as you don't allow it to afect anyone,what goes on in your mind shouldn't be anyone's business.

 

pm9347 wrote:
really sorry for some of my text im a little new at this, ...pat

 

No worries,it was fun.What was your point?

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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pm9347 wrote:hello

pm9347 wrote:

hello everybody, i thought i hop on in to deliver some really good rules to live by ,

I am the Lord your God    
You shall have no other gods before me  

 

Hallelujah brothers, I have seen the light!  How could I have been so stupid?  Allah is not god, nor is Baal, Thor, Yahweh, Krishna or Vishnu.  No, it's pm9347!  pm9347 is the Lord my God, I shall have no other gods before him!

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I guess I am going to hell

there are only three of those commandments that I haven't violated---murder, bearing false witness, and making for myself a false idol. I don't even know what that last one means. I have killed lots of animals tho, and I don't know how many times I have ate hamburgers, chicken, and fish. I guess its not murder if you don't kill it yourself.


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pm9347 wrote:hello

pm9347 wrote:

hello everybody, i thought i hop on in to deliver some really good rules to live by ,

I am the Lord your God    
You shall have no other gods before me  
You shall not make for yourself an idol  
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God    
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy    
Honor your father and mother    
You shall not murder    
You shall not commit adultery    
You shall not steal    
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor    
You shall not covet your neighbor's house    
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

 

really sorry for some of my text im a little new at this, ...pat

1. No you're not

2. No problem there...

3. The Germans made the R8, not me.

4. No problem, there is no god

5. I don't believe in the sun god, but I'll be happy to be lazy once or twice a week.

6. My father and mother tried to make me believe that I'd be granted immortality by a zombified Jewish demi god who was his own father who sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself to change his own laws regarding how he himself deals with sin which he himself created dating back to an incident 6000 years ago in a mystical garden in which a woman literally made of a rib ate a magical fruit off a forbidden tree at the advice of a talking snake.  The only catch is that I had to believe in said stupidity, live by stupid rules, give up the persuite of happiness, and sacrifice my sense of self worth.  My parents can go fuck themselves.

7. no problem for me, I'm not religious

8. Does non material data obtained illegally count?  Oh crap.

9. No problem, I'm not religious

10. Sure, that's just more square feet to clean and maintain.

11. Depending on which neighbor, that could be a problem...

"I've yet to witness circumstance successfully manipulated through the babbling of ritualistic nonsense to an imaginary deity." -- me (josh)

If god can do anything, can he make a hot dog so big even he can't eat all of it?


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Stick around

Debate, argue, hang around awhile.  PM 9347 makes one statement, for lack of a better word, and then disappears.  Please respond in defense of yourself.


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I love how theists avoid the

I love how theists avoid the old language of the bible which talks of "coveting" not only the wife, but their donkeys and slaves. And I also love how they ignore the punishment for breaking the commandments.

"Keep the Sabbath holy", yea, call it Friday, Saturday or Sunday, name me one adult NFL fan who hasn't gone to a bar(WHERE PEOPLE WORK) and had BEER on those days during pre season.

Screw your Sabbath, I'll take a beer and a Redskins/ Cowboys game on a Sunday with a beer over Church any day. At least I know the NFL is just entertainment. Maybe you should treat your bible like D&D, fun for you, but not everyone's cup of tea.

BTW "NO DUH" statements like don't steal or murder don't require belief in Ra, Thor or Jesus anymore than you'd assign those statements as coming from Allah.

I am quite sure you don't like the fact that Christians living in Iran have a tough time living under Islamic law, so why the fuck would you expect me to live under your theocratic monument?

WE can agree on common law WITHOUT slapping a label on it. I don't own you so stop pretending your Christianity is my law and that Jesus runs our government.

GET OVER THE FACT THAT YOUR RELIGION DOES NOT OWN ME!

 

 

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Most of us here don't mind

Most of us here don't mind the punches. But, if you are going to post, don't be a coward and pull hit and run posts. Defend your claims or don't bother coming back.

We understand that people believe and we expect them to make posts counter to our positions. But many here, including me get highly ticked off by preaching.

Make your case, or get lost. You are welcome to stay, but do not expect us to be passive or pull punches. We won't hate you. We merely don't change our position based on " I claimed it" or "my book says so".

Your god claim IS NOT special to us. Your claims of the Christian god is no different to us than claims of Allah or Thor. If you expect to survive here show some guts and defend the claims you make. But do not make the mistake of thinking we should blindly bow to you because you quoted an ancient book.

So what, you can quote a book. I could quote Star Wars and find morality in that movie series but you don't believe in "The Force".

 

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pm9347

     I'm not going to bother you about the entire list,   so meny   others have done it for me,   but that First commandment; I have never heard a proper explanation about it from  a theist,   So could you try?

    "I am the lord your god you shall have no other god before me"  ;   what OTHER gods is your god worried about?

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I violated all of

I violated all of them.

 

 


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I find it interesting how so

I find it interesting how so many of the commandements focus on making god happy,and ignore other important things.We have no commandments against rape,sexual assualt,and assualt.Presumably,as long as you don't have idols god doesn't mind you beating up people.

Take a look at the 11 satanic commands rather.I'd say you're better off living by them.

The eleven satanic rules of the earth

  1. Do not give opinion or advice unless you are asked.
  2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
  3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
  4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
  5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
  6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
  7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
  8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
  9. Do not harm little children.
  10. Do not kill non-human animals unless attacked or for your food.
  11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

 

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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These are merely guidelines

Good rules? Well, according to the current Swedish translation of the bible, these are merely guidelines that god "asks us nicely" to follow. The fact that it was first translated in that way in the 80's, when people had started getting a real problem with taking commandments just like that, we can just call a "convenient coincidence".

Besides, as others have pointed out, most of these are either pointless in reality or just plain stupid. The ones that do make sense are neither originated from these commandments, nor do we need a 2000 year old book to tell us to follow them. And we really shouldn't take even them black and white like your bible tells us to do. Imagine that there's a guy about to kill 10 innocent victims, amongst them children and yourself. You're the only one who can stop him, and that's by killing him first. Would it be a bad thing of you to kill him then? According to me, no. According to the law, no. According to the bible... yes. Who do you agree with - me and the law, or the bible?

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Proper Gander wrote:Good

Proper Gander wrote:

Good rules? Well, according to the current Swedish translation of the bible, these are merely guidelines that god "asks us nicely" to follow. The fact that it was first translated in that way in the 80's, when people had started getting a real problem with taking commandments just like that, we can just call a "convenient coincidence".

Besides, as others have pointed out, most of these are either pointless in reality or just plain stupid. The ones that do make sense are neither originated from these commandments, nor do we need a 2000 year old book to tell us to follow them. And we really shouldn't take even them black and white like your bible tells us to do. Imagine that there's a guy about to kill 10 innocent victims, amongst them children and yourself. You're the only one who can stop him, and that's by killing him first. Would it be a bad thing of you to kill him then? According to me, no. According to the law, no. According to the bible... yes. Who do you agree with - me and the law, or the bible?

Don't attempt to point out to a theist that they compartmentalize, it makes their heads explode.

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wow some really interesting responses !

i dont exactly know how to respond to everybody i hope this works ,im still learning how to use the boards . i didnt post and run it was late and had to get to sleep to put my kids on the bus in the morning, so really cool to see alot of people agree with a protion of the ten commandants , mostly the ones invloving common sense ie. no murder , no stealing , no coveting. and respect parents seems to me people get irrate when god states his dominance over rules to live by. ill be around today for debate.


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commandant one

well i feel that , god wnats you to worship him over all else in your life , you cant pray to your socks . or in their time a golden calf, to get the help you seek , he created the world and you, so he wants ackknowledgement.


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There's nothing wrong with

There's nothing wrong with coveting - without it why would anyone work for more than subsitence? Without coveting our economy would likely collapse. There's plenty wrong with the commandments, besides the fact there's no reason to believe any god exists, let alone the Christarded one.

 

Whats_wrong_with_the_10_commandments.

 

 

 

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It is true that almost

It is true that almost anyone could create a better, more reasonable set of 10 commandments.


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pm9347 wrote:well i feel

pm9347 wrote:

well i feel that , god wnats you to worship him over all else in your life , you cant pray to your socks . or in their time a golden calf, to get the help you seek , he created the world and you, so he wants ackknowledgement.

God's track record for answering prayer isn't all that hot either...

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jcgadfly wrote:pm9347

jcgadfly wrote:

pm9347 wrote:

well i feel that , god wnats you to worship him over all else in your life , you cant pray to your socks . or in their time a golden calf, to get the help you seek , he created the world and you, so he wants ackknowledgement.

God's track record for answering prayer isn't all that hot either...

 

Praying to your socks will give you the exact same results as praying to god. And I know for a fact my socks exist.

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pm9347 wrote:hello

pm9347 wrote:

hello everybody, i thought i hop on in to deliver some really good rules to live by ,

I am the Lord your God    
You shall have no other gods before me  
You shall not make for yourself an idol  
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God    
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy    
Honor your father and mother    
You shall not murder    
You shall not commit adultery    
You shall not steal    
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor    
You shall not covet your neighbor's house    
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

 

really sorry for some of my text im a little new at this, ...pat

 

1) Who is the Lord My god, never heard of him....i mean not directly, always from his so called believers but never from this god himself.

2) Why not? from what I see from his so called followers/worshippers he's pretty boring guy, i mean all the murder and sexual repression isn't my idea of a fun god, i rather Pan, the god of orgies and wine, if there were a god(s) that's the god I would follow

3) Idol? why would I make myself and Idol, other people would have to make me and Idol, beside american/candian idol is shitty.

4)Well since there is no god, can't take his name in vain or use it wrongfully.

5)Well the sabbath is Saturday according to the Jews (whom the christians have ripped off their religion from) and I keep it holy, I go to the bars/clubs/movies/dinner religiously with my wife/friends. It's pretty holy for me

6)As long as they make good rational decisions and don't abuse their children then sure they have earned that honor. otherwise fuck them, if their abusive morons why should children honor their parents???

7)the murder part, if your chrisitan it means don't murder other christians, jews, muslims, those of other faiths or those of non faith are game to kill, after all their are infidels. If your jewish, then everyone else is game but other jews, if your muslims same goes, can't kill another muslim....but other are fair game....unless of course if you break one of the many tenants of the commandments, if you work on the sabbath, you have to be but to death, if you steal, death, if you decide to change faith, it's death sentence. i mean there are many many reasons in the bible to kill someone. I actually rather our laws in north american....you can only kill in self defense. It makes more sense, don't kill all unless you are defending your life or someone else's life.

8)Ah adultary, however this one is really up to debate, if I am a swinger am I committing adultary?? I mean it is done with consent of all parties. plus if you committ adultary, chances are the courts are going to fuck you up when your partner divorces you, unless of course you have a really really good lawyers,and even then it might not help.

9) Stealing well that depends on the circumstances, however stealing for survival I can forgive...to a point, an apple or something I can forgive, a car no i cannot, however these idea of not stealing from others of your own society, again well before christians, jews or muslims were around, this is old school, however if you have read the bible it's ok for christians to steal from others, just not other christians, same goes for jews and muslims. Steal from others, not those of the same faith.

10)Yeah human laws have been there about that for thousands of years before the christians were around, and continue to this very day, even in lands that don't follow christianity, such as japan, china and various other buddhist/secular nations, this is a no no (oh so are the other onces regards murder, stealing, desiring your neighbors wife or stuff, lying and a few others)

11)The last 2, well, it's how society works to built itself up, especially in a capitalist nation, you are always keeping up with the jones (those jones have so much fucking money i tell ya, no one ever catches up to them). Now there is nothing wrong with desire, just depends on how you act upon it.

If you have noticed it's all old school or worthless advice.


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Good rules to live by? I

Good rules to live by? I don't find these to be very original and the "commandments" the Jains live by are even more superior to the the laws of the Jews. As long as you keep em out of my court houses knock your socks.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


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Prayer to hosery...

pm9347 wrote:

well i feel that , god wnats you to worship him over all else in your life , you cant pray to your socks . or in their time a golden calf, to get the help you seek , he created the world and you, so he wants ackknowledgement.

If one prays to God one can expect one of three results...

1. You will get what you want immeadiately.

2. You will get what you want later.

3 You don't get what you want.

If I pray to my socks...

1. I will get what I want immeadiately.

2. I will get what I want later.

3. I won't get what I want.

So, a cosmic being, capable of conception and actualization of the entire universe needs our validation? It's a pretty pathetic god you have there, requiring as he does constant ego fluffing by a group of helpless captive slaves under threat of eternal punishment...

LC >;-}>

 

 

 

 

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his prayer record may not

his prayer record may not seem good to you , but ask the woman they pulled out of the wreckage in the china eathquake if prayer works, you might get another answer


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pm9347 wrote:his prayer

pm9347 wrote:

his prayer record may not seem good to you , but ask the woman they pulled out of the wreckage in the china eathquake if prayer works, you might get another answer

Appeal to emotion and beside that not evidence that a prayer was answered.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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ok, give it a try , come up

ok, give it a try , come up with 10 rules that all humanity should live by so that we can get all get along and prosper,  oh and how do you all quote someone in your replys ?? it might help me clarify my points easier


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pm9347 wrote:his prayer

pm9347 wrote:

his prayer record may not seem good to you , but ask the woman they pulled out of the wreckage in the china eathquake if prayer works, you might get another answer

Did she do nothing but pray?

Did she not make noises so that her rescuers could find her? Didn't she dig even a little bit?

Did her rescuers not go look for her?

Why give God credit for people busting their humps doing their jobs (rescuers) or discount the survivor's own efforts to be found?

Why is it so much easier to believe in magic than acknowledge hard work?

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pm9347 wrote:his prayer

pm9347 wrote:

his prayer record may not seem good to you , but ask the woman they pulled out of the wreckage in the china eathquake if prayer works, you might get another answer

While I'm there I'll ask the other,what?60,000? Who weren't rescued.I'm sure they'll have something to say about prayer and god.

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

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This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

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pm9347 wrote:his prayer

pm9347 wrote:

his prayer record may not seem good to you , but ask the woman they pulled out of the wreckage in the china eathquake if prayer works, you might get another answer

Appeal to emotion and beside that not evidence that a prayer was answered.  Many people have been pulled from the wreckage the Earthquake in China wrought.  Many people were also not.  Assuming at least some of them prayed for help, why was this specific woman prayer answered?  Actually, don't answer that question, the inevitable brick wall we'll contact at the end of any discussion starting with that question will likely kill you and travelling the distance between will only waste my time.  Try again. 

Also, the I'm wholly unimpressed by the ten commandments.  They're not the first example of a set of laws supposedly from god nor are they the first example of ancient laws or of useful ancient laws.  Did the Romans not have laws?  The Greek?  The Chinese?

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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prayer proven

i know people get irate when we use links to support  a point  but i found your answer on this website, please excuse the other areas and just focus on the science only in the article, i have to step out for a while i have a honey to do list to complete , but ill be back later on tonight to continue debate. here is the link.   http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prayer.html


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Here are 10: 1. Do not kill

Here are 10:

1. Do not kill another person unless you are doing so to protect yourself or someone else.

2. Do not have sexual relations with anyone against their will or at all with anyone who is not yet an adult.

3. Do not take what isn't yours unless someone gives it to you - this includes not paying fair wages.

4. Treat others as you want to be treated

5. If you believe in a religion fine, but don't try to force it's rules on others.

6. Do not needlessly inflict pain on any living thing.

7. Don't be an asshole.

8. Honor those who deserve honor.

9. Help those that need help if you are able.

10. If something you see offends you, don't look at it.

 

A video on "the power of prayer":

 

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pm9347 wrote:i know people

pm9347 wrote:

i know people get irate when we use links to support  a point  but i found your answer on this website, please excuse the other areas and just focus on the science only in the article, i have to step out for a while i have a honey to do list to complete , but ill be back later on tonight to continue debate. here is the link.   http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prayer.html

Still some questions...

I'll start with this one.

Was the test group sample completely random or did they collect people who they knew were leaving the hospital in a day or two and had no history of other problems and given them to the prayer team?

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pm9347 wrote:his prayer

pm9347 wrote:

his prayer record may not seem good to you , but ask the woman they pulled out of the wreckage in the china eathquake if prayer works, you might get another answer

Wow!  This god guy saved a single person out of 60-something thousand!  A record that would get any ER physician in any hospital shown the door, but yay, god!  And since it happened in a different country, we have no way to check on it.

This is Argument by Canadian Girlfriend.

Hey, since you've heard this totally reliable account about one instance of an unnamed woman who happens to live in a place no one here has the ability to go check on, do you also happen to know how many people trapped in the rubble prayed and died anyway?  No?

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pm9347 wrote:well i feel

pm9347 wrote:

well i feel that , god wnats you to worship him over all else in your life , you cant pray to your socks . or in their time a golden calf, to get the help you seek , he created the world and you, so he wants ackknowledgement.

Why? Why would I want to worship such a self centered being. Why would such a being need or want 6 billion humans to kiss it's ass?

Have you ever considered maybe you believe in something merely because you like the idea of having a magical super hero in the sky?

Quote:
he created the world and you

So you claim. So what? Native Americans have their creation myths too, but you don't worship their gods. Muslims claim that Allah did it, but you are not a Muslim.

Did it ever occur that there is no need for a "who" for the universe to exist. Did it ever occur to you that the universe and life on this planet is a result of nature and not a magical being by any name, much less yours?

Which makes more sense to you in reality?

1. Thor makes lightening?

Or

2. Someone made that story up?

For the same reason you would rightfully reject the claim that a magical being made lighting, I reject claims of ghosts knocking up girls and zombie gods surviving rigor mortis.

 

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1. Don't drive slow in the

1.  Don't drive slow in the inside lane.

2. If you're going to use my toothpaste, put the cap back on.

3. Don't you my toothpaste, as you're obviously not capable of putting the cap back on.

4. Don't hurt people unless in self defense, even then do not hurt them more than necessary to remove the threat.

5. Don't take that which doesn't belong to you.

6. This includes my Colgate Total plus whitening gel.

7. Do require all your beliefs to be backed by evidence.

8. Pursue happiness.

9. Do not prevent others from pursuing happiness.

10. Do not do to other what you would not want done to yourself. ( Confucius "Silver Rule" )

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pm9347 wrote:his prayer

pm9347 wrote:

his prayer record may not seem good to you , but ask the woman they pulled out of the wreckage in the china eathquake if prayer works, you might get another answer

Based on your responses I can safely asses that on the issue of debating religion, you are unarmed(meaning your arguments are laymen and not even good laymen). You have brought a metaphorical knife to an intellectual gunfight.

You make me want to debate Captain Pineapple(pantheist).

All kidding aside. I am taking a jab at you. But for good reason. If you expect to learn and if you want a long stay here, no one is going to hate you if you don't change your position, but you really have to read and study, not only our position, but yours as well. You lack knowledge even of your own position, and you are easy pickings compared to other theists we have debated.

 Your earthquake story is a prime example of your lack of knowledge. What you just did is a basic error in logic which is the fallacy of, "Appeal to emotion". If being a victim of an earthquake would not be a good reason to believe in Vishnu, why would it be a good reason to believe in Jesus?

Trauma in life causes people to change religions, give up a religion or pick up a religion, all the time. Did it ever occur to you that this is not a "revolation" but a phycological placebo the person sticks in their head to counter the trauma they saw?

I am quite sure it scared the crap out of that person. But being scared of something is not a reason to hold a position or change a position, it just means you are scared.

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pm9347 wrote:ok, give it a

pm9347 wrote:

ok, give it a try , come up with 10 rules that all humanity should live by so that we can get all get along and prosper,  oh and how do you all quote someone in your replys ?? it might help me clarify my points easier

I'm positive we don't need ten.

1) Do not increase the suffering of others to decrease your own suffering.

2) Do what you can to decrease the suffering of others, both short term and long term.

3) Do not deceive others, and do not deceive yourself.

 

I don't know what needs to be added to this list.  Anyone?

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shikko wrote: 1) Do not

shikko wrote:

 

 

1) Do not increase the suffering of others to decrease your own suffering.

This seems abit murky. Many people would make others suffer even if it doesn't improve their situation.They may just enjoy it. Perhaps something a little more concrete would be better.

"Do not increase the suffering of others unless they have caused undue and undeserved suffering. Do only what is neccessary to correct/punish them'' ?

pm9347 wrote:

oh and how do you all quote someone in your replys ?? it might help me clarify my points easier

http://tinyurl.com/3t5tr7

 

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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Loc wrote:pm9347 wrote:his

Loc wrote:

pm9347 wrote:

his prayer record may not seem good to you , but ask the woman they pulled out of the wreckage in the china eathquake if prayer works, you might get another answer

While I'm there I'll ask the other,what?60,000? Who weren't rescued.I'm sure they'll have something to say about prayer and god.

I am sure in that 60,000 you could find the dead bodies of children and babies and some pregnant women too. But, what do you expect from an all powerful being who allows a flood to drowned the world's population?

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pm9347 wrote:well i feel

pm9347 wrote:

well i feel that , god wnats you to worship him over all else in your life , you cant pray to your socks . or in their time a golden calf, to get the help you seek , he created the world and you, so he wants ackknowledgement.

That's a lie! God didn't create the world - I did. I will offer you absolutely no evidence that I did so, except my word. I will not even attempt to prove my own existance, beyond the existance of my posts, which could have been made by bots for all you know. But I still want your acknowledgement! Acknowledge me as the creator of the world, or else I will do horrible things to you! You know, later. Much later. Like, after you've died, when there's no longer a chance for you to tell those left alive if they really have something to fear or not. Then you will suffer! *Trails off in a maniacal laughter*

 

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I also wonder how likely it

I also wonder how likely it is that a Chinese person would have prayed to the Christian god.


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George Carlin on the Ten

George Carlin on the Ten Commandments:

Quote:
"Here is my problem with the ten commandments- why exactly are there 10?

You simply do not need ten. The list of ten commandments was artificially and deliberately inflated to get it up to ten. Here's what happened:

About 5,000 years ago a bunch of religious and political hustlers got together to try to figure out how to control people and keep them in line. They knew people were basically stupid and would believe anything they were told, so they announced that God had given them some commandments, up on a mountain, when no one was around.

Well let me ask you this- when they were making this shit up, why did they pick 10? Why not 9 or 11? I'll tell you why- because 10 sound official. Ten sounds important! Ten is the basis for the decimal system, it's a decade, it's a psychologically satisfying number (the top ten, the ten most wanted, the ten best dressed). So having ten commandments was really a marketing decision! It is clearly a bullshit list. It's a political document artificially inflated to sell better. I will now show you how you can reduce the number of commandments and come up with a list that's a little more workable and logical. I am going to use the Roman Catholic version because those were the ones I was taught as a little boy".

 

To read the rest of this:

www.geocities.com/bobmelzer/gc10cx.html

or see/listen on YouTube:

www.youtube.com/watch

My favorite part:

How the religious view the most important Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Kill

"The more devout they are the more they see Murder as negotiable".

So true. 

 

 

 

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Loc wrote:shikko wrote:1) Do

Loc wrote:

shikko wrote:

1) Do not increase the suffering of others to decrease your own suffering.

This seems abit murky. Many people would make others suffer even if it doesn't improve their situation.They may just enjoy it. Perhaps something a little more concrete would be better.

But that would be making others suffer to decrease your own (i.e., doing it because you enjoy it), and that would earn you a Cosmic Stern Talking-To.

Quote:

"Do not increase the suffering of others unless they have caused undue and undeserved suffering. Do only what is neccessary to correct/punish them'' ?

Hmm...you raise a fair point.  I was thinking of "suffering" being roughly equal to unwanted pain/hardship, which in the case of a punishment it would most surely be.

How about we go with Bill and Ted: "Be excellent to each other"?

 

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pm9347 wrote:his prayer

pm9347 wrote:

his prayer record may not seem good to you , but ask the woman they pulled out of the wreckage in the china eathquake if prayer works, you might get another answer

Which one?  There were hundreds if not thousands of women pulled out of wreckage.  A large percentage of them weren't alive.  Should I ask those ones?

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pm9347 wrote:ok, give it a

pm9347 wrote:

ok, give it a try , come up with 10 rules that all humanity should live by so that we can get all get along and prosper, 

 

Why Not, eh? Ok here goes:

1.This is the world your life    
........ You shall have no other lives, be clear on this much.  
........ Life cannot be contained in a decorative box.  
2.Don't assume your life to be vain it is the wing of the butterfly.    
3.In a seven day week - Days one and two- make contribution to your world; Days three and four - make contribution to the world of those dear to you; Day five - play, dance, run, jump, swim .. indulge in happiness; Day six - Make Art or Craft ; Day seven - Appreciate Art and Craft. --- repeat.    
4.Think over your impressions of other people and their intentions, try to understand other's mistakes and respect other's good will.    
5.Use what you have learned in #4 to exemplify the best principles you can imagine.    
6.Keep your promises or don't make them (eg. if you take home a puppy you have promised to care for it, so care or don't make the promise)    
7.If there are people in the world without enough, and you have more than you need revisit rules 4 through 6, you have missed something.    
8.If you are making excuses for failing rule 7 you have missed something go back to rule 1 and start again.    
9.What you have is what you want, learn to see why.    
10.If you have love, you have everything.

 

 

 

pm9347 wrote:

oh and how do you all quote someone in your replys ?? it might help me clarify my points easier

Click the quote button at the bottom left corner of the post. Next to the reply button.

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First of all: HI It's my

First of all: HI Smiling

It's my first post here and I'm fighting with the language a bit because I'm from Poland...

 

Anyway. I would like to recommend a film on this subject. Actually it's a part of a comedy show (so it's the same genre basicly Sticking out tongue)... Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyWEBbFwU1o&feature=related

 

Thats just how i feel about this issue...

 

Greetz...

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Nah...

pm9347 wrote:

i know people get irate when we use links to support  a point  but i found your answer on this website, please excuse the other areas and just focus on the science only in the article, i have to step out for a while i have a honey to do list to complete , but ill be back later on tonight to continue debate. here is the link.   http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prayer.html

Here, try this one...

http://skepdic.com/refuge/bunk21.html

 

No, we don't get irate, just amused...

I know you came in all enthused, thinking you were going to post THE stumper that would have all of us die hard atheists slapping our heads and shouting Halelujah!, I BELIEVE....!!!!!

But in all truth Pat...

the Ten Commandments?

Is that the best you could do?

The big Ten are not so bad...but they aren't all that good either, it was like the HUMAN writer of the OT was shooting for mediocracy and hit spot on...

Prayer? Saving ONE woman out of 10's of thousands... come on, did you stop to think before you posted that?

Now you offer up a compendium of lame, badly executed pseudo science and expect us to tremble in wonder at the AWESOME POW-Wah of your Gawd?

Think before you post... better yet, think from the OTHER guy's viewpoint before you post.

Thus far, you've pretty well embarrassed yourself.

 

LC >;-}>

 

 

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pm9347 wrote:hello

pm9347 wrote:

hello everybody, i thought i hop on in to deliver some really good rules to live by ,

I am the Lord your God    
You shall have no other gods before me  
You shall not make for yourself an idol  
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God    
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy    
Honor your father and mother    
You shall not murder    
You shall not commit adultery    
You shall not steal    
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor    
You shall not covet your neighbor's house    
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

You seem blissfully unaware of the actual ten commandments. These are the inferior commandments from Exodus 20. Moses gets angry at the israelites for worshiping a gold calf and smashes the stone tablets those were on. Great quality of tablets from god, and Moses needs anger management classes. Anyway, in Exodus 34, Moses gets a new pair of tablets with clearly superior commandments, billed as "the words that were on the first" (Exodus 34:1). Enjoy your new commandments to live by pm9347. You don't even have to thank me for bringing this to your attention.


1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god). (this is a particularly nasty version. See Exodus 34:12-16 for a gruesome display of divine intolerance)

2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.

4. All the first-born are mine.

5. Six days shalt thou work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest.

6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread.

8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.

9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.

10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.