Which parts of the bible are true?

Badbark
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Which parts of the bible are true?

 

I’m currently reading the bible and have reached Jeremiah. I’m finding it extremely tedious but felt it was something that I should read at least once in my life. I was just wondering which parts of the bible are accepted as true by atheists? Which people really did exist? Which parts of the bible do we have overwhelming evidence to support?


pauljohntheskeptic
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Badbark wrote: I’m

Badbark wrote:

 

I’m currently reading the bible and have reached Jeremiah. I’m finding it extremely tedious but felt it was something that I should read at least once in my life. I was just wondering which parts of the bible are accepted as true by atheists? Which people really did exist? Which parts of the bible do we have overwhelming evidence to support?

As an Ex-Christian I have studied the Bible in several translations. I also had an intense interest in History. I recommend you visit your local bookstore or library and read books on ancient Egypt, the Hittites, Assyria, the Mitanni, Babylon and others.

Short summary of Events.

There really were kingdoms of Israel and Judah. They had kings. They had squabbles between each other. Egypt, Assyria, the Hittites, and Babylon were superpowers at one time or the other. The Hyskos descendants from Canaanites ruled lower Egypt and were pushed out of the country by Pharaoh Ahmrose. No other large group of supposed Asiatics are shown to have been in Egypt. Egypt, the Hittites, and Assyria dominated Palestine at the supposed time of Moses and Joshua. No proof of Israelites invading the country rather they were descended as was everyone else from the wandering nomads. Jericho existed as a small city without walls at the time. Ai was already ruins when Joshua supposedly destroyed it.  David probably existed but had a very small kingdom and population. He was mentioned in inscriptions such as the Tel Dan and the Mesha Steele. Ahab was a very great king of Israel who defended his country from invasion by the Assyrians. Most likely Ahab and the other Omride kings are responsible for the greatness found in archaeological ruins. Babylon was invaded by the Persians and was not quite the bloodbath described. Israelites were relocated by Assyria though not all of them maybe 20%. Judah was invaded by Assyria and Babylon. Again many were relocated but only a percentage of the population. Jeremiah actually helps to support this.

Greeks and Persians fought. Alexander conquered the Persians. Descendants of his commanders ruled Egypt and Palestine. Eventually Rome becomes a power and Pompey and Caesar are involved. Palestine is part of the Roman Empire. Jews rebel. Jerusalem is razed to the ground. Hadrian orders a new city built in Jerusalem. Jews rebel under Kosiba who thinks he is the Star found in Numbers. Jews are exterminated.

As to the narratives in the Bible generally it is fill for the writer. So many errors to even mention. Errors of prophecy, technology, knowledge, history and science are numerous.

 

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


Rook_Hawkins
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Nothing in the Bible can be

Nothing in the Bible can be accepted as historical.  We do not have evidence for very much, and what evidence we do have does not support the Biblical account.  I suggest you read the introduction to my book for some bibliographical information, and skim through my blog for additional articles on this subject.

Rook's Blog Here

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Et suppositio nil ponit in esse.

"You act ridiculously," said Ion, "to doubt every­thing. For my part, I should like to ask you what you say to those who free possessed men from their terrors by exorcising the spirits so manifestly. I need not discuss this: everyone knows about the Syrian from Palestine, the adept in it, how many he takes in hand who fall down in the light of the moon and roll their eyes and fill their mouths with foam; nevertheless, he restores them to health and sends them away normal in mind, delivering them from their straits for a large fee. When he stands beside them as they lie there and asks : 'Whence came you into his body?' the patient himself is silent, but the spirit answers in Greek or in the language of whatever foreign country he comes from, telling how and whence he entered into the man; whereupon, by adjuring the spirit and if he does not obey, threaten­ing him, he drives him out. Indeed, I actually saw one coming out, black and smoky in color." "It is nothing much," I remarked," for you, Ion, to see that kind of sight, when even the 'forms' that the father of your school, Plato, points out are plain to you, a hazy object of vision to the rest of us, whose eyes are weak." - Lucian, Lover of Lies


Hambydammit
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In a nutshell, the bible

In a nutshell, the bible should be read like one of Homer's epics.  There are real names and places from time to time, but it is a work of fiction.

Even if some of the authors thought they were writing history, their accounts are not reliable unless they are backed up by corroborating evidence.

 

Credulity is much easier to sustain when we've been taught that facts are things to be memorized and repeated, rather than sought out and discovered.
-- Me


Rook_Hawkins
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To add to Hamby, biblical

To add to Hamby, biblical authors seldom thought they were writing history, especially when they were creating plot and utilizing archetypes and eponymous names. 

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Please help me get my resources so I can finish my book more quickly.

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Et suppositio nil ponit in esse.

"You act ridiculously," said Ion, "to doubt every­thing. For my part, I should like to ask you what you say to those who free possessed men from their terrors by exorcising the spirits so manifestly. I need not discuss this: everyone knows about the Syrian from Palestine, the adept in it, how many he takes in hand who fall down in the light of the moon and roll their eyes and fill their mouths with foam; nevertheless, he restores them to health and sends them away normal in mind, delivering them from their straits for a large fee. When he stands beside them as they lie there and asks : 'Whence came you into his body?' the patient himself is silent, but the spirit answers in Greek or in the language of whatever foreign country he comes from, telling how and whence he entered into the man; whereupon, by adjuring the spirit and if he does not obey, threaten­ing him, he drives him out. Indeed, I actually saw one coming out, black and smoky in color." "It is nothing much," I remarked," for you, Ion, to see that kind of sight, when even the 'forms' that the father of your school, Plato, points out are plain to you, a hazy object of vision to the rest of us, whose eyes are weak." - Lucian, Lover of Lies


ronin-dog
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None of it. Even if a story

None of it. Even if a story is written in a historical setting, it is still fiction.


Badbark
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 Thanks for all the

 

Thanks for all the answers. Even less than I expected then!


BrainFromArous
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You should apply that same

You should apply that same standard of scrutiny to the Bible that you would to, say, the Odyssey.

Rook's point is key: The people who wrote the Bible were not historians, didn't think of themselves that way and didn't intend their stories to be read that way. With much of it, I would go so far as to say that whatever historical accuracy does exist is incidental.

That said, there were apparently lizard men in the Garden of Eden; like the Sleestak in Land of the Lost.

That's pretty cool.

Boards don't hit back. (Bruce Lee)


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Rook_Hawkins wrote:To add to

Rook_Hawkins wrote:

To add to Hamby, biblical authors seldom thought they were writing history, especially when they were creating plot and utilizing archetypes and eponymous names. 

"plot" ....the bible has a "plot"?

Here it is in three parts.

Part 1. Be a good Hebrew and no one gets hurt

Part 2. Thats not working. I know, I'll kill myself for myself to warn people to worship me or burn in hell.

Part 3. If I can't have you no one can!

That is not a plot, that is rantings of an abusive spouse.

 

Deities do not follow a "method" because imagination is a whim, not a method.


pauljohntheskeptic
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Plots

There can be found several plots depending on perspective.

Hebrew ver 1 = Parables/stories about how the world got here. Parables/stories what happened in our history. We are chosen by our god who is better than all others. Prophecies made for a great leader to unite the world serving the one god under our leadership.

Mythology and wishful thinking.

Hebrew ver 2 = How we got here. Our invisible god is better than yours. We have been promised a great leader that god  will send to kill all who oppose. He will rule the world through us.

This is otherwise known as mythology and a response to repression.

Catholic = Stories of how the world got here in figurative language. (Derived from ver 1 & 2) Stories of Jewish history and the god's relationship shown figuratively. A great leader is promised who will save them. The Jews don't see the savior as 'the one'. He dies for all to placate the god-himself. He will come back. The end is figuratively shown, or not.

Mythology, wishful thinking, derived fantasy and creative interpretation. This allows for evolution to be the way god did it, a view that Hell isn't a real place, and a method to be right no matter what was previously claimed.

Christian Fundie = How the Jews got here. How the Jews were evil. The Jews are punished.  A savior is promised. The savior is sent. He is a chunk of the god. The Jews reject him/kill him. All of the world is saved or damned. The god goes home but promises to return with payback.

This is derived fantasy based on  mythology and delusional rejection of reality.

Islam = How others got here. How we got here. How the Jews rejected us. Our invisible god is the one. He will kill all that reject his way.

This is mythology, derived fantasy with more mythology and fantasy mixed in later.

There are many sub plots in part 1 OT and part 2 NT of these stories/fables/myths. There are several versions of part1 OT. All claim their part 1 OT is the correct story/fable/myth.

Basically myths and fantasies were written. New writers expanded the scope of the fantasies. Even more new writers expanded the expansion. Interpretations were made of the writings and the expanded writings and the expanded expanded writings of the fantasy. New writers expand the interpretation of the multilayer expansion of the fantasies and myths.

There are of course thousands of other versions of interpretation of the perceived plot(s) depending on the group(s) underlying goal(s). There is no truth to be found here.

Result = A mess

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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Truth

The only part of the king james version that might be true would the page number in the upper corner.  Anything more than that would be pushing your luck.


mrjonno
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Don't listen to them I've

Don't listen to them I've seen the Omen (the original) and I know its all true and his little brat is very very scary.

 

Got a feeling the remake was a bit of an atheist conspiracy due to it being err crap


thingy
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mrjonno wrote:Don't listen

mrjonno wrote:

Don't listen to them I've seen the Omen (the original) and I know its all true and his little brat is very very scary.

 

Got a feeling the remake was a bit of an atheist conspiracy due to it being err crap

They're talking about the christian bible, not the pastafarian one.

Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.


Archbishop_Of_C...
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Evvery Part of the bible is

Evvery Part of the bible is true and you should know that without question , it can never be disproven or doubted , the only people that try believe in god and are afraid to admit it , so say i the mighty archbishop!


Boon Docks
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Archie

Slow down there turbo, your looking scary.


Jeffrick
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A-of-C

Archbishop_Of_Canterbury wrote:

Evvery Part of the bible is true and you should know that without question , it can never be disproven or doubted , the only people that try believe in god and are afraid to admit it , so say i the mighty archbishop!

   You are wrong.

jeffrick