Woman has "miraculous" recovery

jmm
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Woman has "miraculous" recovery

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- A grandmother from Cross Lanes lives on after doctors gave her family little hope she would survive.

Saturday Val Thomas was put on life support after she suffered a heart attack. Her son says when the doctors told the family there was nothing else they could do, he had to make a heart-wrenching decision to take her off life support.

"When we all said our goodbyes and I had peace with it," said Tim Thomas, the son of Val Thomas. "We had already started making funeral arrangements."

Tim Thomas left the hospital, but he didn't get far before he got a phone call that his 59-year-old mother was not ready to die.

"When they were taking her off life support, mom's arm had moved and her foot had twitched," Thomas said. Val then asked the nurses "Where is my son?".

Her family says its truly a miracle she is alive today. In fact, they give all the credit to God. They say the machines didn't save her, just the grace of God.

Val is still at CAMC Memorial Hospital, but her family says she is recovering and almost back to normal.

www.wsaz.com/home/headlines/19140074.html#

The link includes the print article and the original broadcast, as well as raw footage of an interview with the son, an interview with Mrs. Thomas, and the son speaking to the members of his church. 

The most interesting part for me was the fact that she had no brain activity for nearly 18 hours.  The above links fail to mention this, but this link does:

www.mefeedia.com/entry/dead-woman-comes-back-to-life/9615542/

 


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i know im supposed to be

i know im supposed to be impressed by some one being brain dead and on life support... but i think im more impressed by the people who are brain dead and manage to get on with their lives ;-p (which oddly enough, turns out to be exactly what this woman does)

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mommy dearest

   My mommy dearest worked as an ICU specialist for over twenty  years, she often talked shop with my big sister ( a med student) at the dinner table. I heard meny storys like this, it is not new, and it is not a miracle.   They lowered her body temprature,  the heat sensitive brain probes, if they are attached at this point (big IF), will NOT and can NOT give an accurate reading.  In an ICU ( after the EMTs-  after the ER) Brain scans would be the LAST thing attached, perhaps hours after the first heart attack.  They must stabilize the heart first.   If someone jumps the gun and put the brain scan on before any of the three reported heart stoppages,  guess what happens, the defibulators used to zap the heart into restarting are also shooting electric volts (200 to 1200 volts) right into the brain scanner and any other sensor attached to her body.  They do not work after that, if you don't believe me try zapping that much voltage into your hard drive or you TV set and see what happens.   Another clue against "A miracle", is the ER staff discussing organ donation on admission;  a charge nurse, at every hospital in the country, has the job of watching for possible organ doners, she/he would have attached the brain scan ASAP then talked with the next of kin about the donation, it is their job.

   Brain dead for 18 hours is a long time to go without haveing your organs, harvested some of the medical staff knew, from experience, not to trust the brain scan as long as the organs are working.  btw life support in an ICU amounts to a defibulator and a respirator only, all other machines simply monitor the body.

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{This is deludedgod again. I

{This is deludedgod again. I really need my password}.

I object to the title. Brain death has a precise definition. It is not the end of brain activity, necessarily. It is the end of brain activity due to complete necrosis of cerebral neurons. So you can imagine my great suprise when reading your OP title. It would cause a revolution in our understanding of the field if someone recovered from complete necrosis of cerebral neurons. As for people recovering from removal of life support and lack of cerebral activity, this is an interesting addition to the already existing case studies of death-pronouncement recovery in the medical literature, but not revolutionary. You should change the title to avoid such confusion.


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Anon wrote:{This is

Anon wrote:
{This is deludedgod again. I really need my password}.

Have you tried using the "request new password" feature?

To get to it, simply click login/register at the top left of the page and click request new password. Then, enter your email address and a temporary password will be sent to your email address.

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Oh look, another case where

Oh look, another case where theists completly ignore and insult the work of doctors and science,instead crediting god.So do they think she would have done as well if she has just stayed at home with no medical intervention?

I wonder if she saw god while she was 'dead'

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

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Loc wrote:Oh look, another

Loc wrote:

Oh look, another case where theists completly ignore and insult the work of doctors and science,instead crediting god.So do they think she would have done as well if she has just stayed at home with no medical intervention?

I wonder if she saw god while she was 'dead'

I love how theists can go as far as even ignoring their own efforts in that regard.

Ex. "The doctor told me I had cancer. My church and I prayed for healing. then I went in for the surgery. the surgery was a success and I went in for weeks of radiation and chemotherapy. Now I don't have the cancer. Jesus healed me!"

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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jcgadfly wrote:Ex. "The

jcgadfly wrote:

Ex. "The doctor told me I had cancer. My church and I prayed for healing. then I went in for the surgery. the surgery was a success and I went in for weeks of radiation and chemotherapy. Now I don't have the cancer. Jesus healed me!"

Please tell me that was an example and someone didn't actually do that.

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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Anon wrote:{This is

Anon wrote:

{This is deludedgod again. I really need my password}.

I object to the title. Brain death has a precise definition. It is not the end of brain activity, necessarily. It is the end of brain activity due to complete necrosis of cerebral neurons. So you can imagine my great suprise when reading your OP title. It would cause a revolution in our understanding of the field if someone recovered from complete necrosis of cerebral neurons. As for people recovering from removal of life support and lack of cerebral activity, this is an interesting addition to the already existing case studies of death-pronouncement recovery in the medical literature, but not revolutionary. You should change the title to avoid such confusion.

Yeah, I actually meant to change it before I clicked to post, but I forgot--I typed it in as a "working title" or whatever until I gathered my thoughts, which apparently never happened. 

But anyway:

I wasn't so much interested in the banter from the family, but rather the lack of brain activity for over 17 hours.  Someone gave a possible explanation for this, but I just found it interesting. 


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Loc wrote:jcgadfly wrote:Ex.

Loc wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Ex. "The doctor told me I had cancer. My church and I prayed for healing. then I went in for the surgery. the surgery was a success and I went in for weeks of radiation and chemotherapy. Now I don't have the cancer. Jesus healed me!"

Please tell me that was an example and someone didn't actually do that.

I've actually heard this statement and other statements like it.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Well, I can't figure out how

Well, I can't figure out how to edit the thread title.  Could a moderator please change it to something more appropriate?  


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Quote:Have you tried using

Quote:

Have you tried using the "request new password" feature?

Yes, but I'm using a different email account now to the one that is indicated by my account, and the server doesn't recognize it. That's why I sent an email to the admins requesting they direct my password to my new email address. I also proved who I was by providing the first three digits and the last four digits of my original password. I've just forgotten the middle set of digits. Didn't you get the email?


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Quote:Yes, but I'm using a

Quote:

Yes, but I'm using a different email account now to the one that is indicated by my account, and the server doesn't recognize it. That's why I sent an email to the admins requesting they direct my password to my new email address. I also proved who I was by providing the first three digits and the last four digits of my original password. I've just forgotten the middle set of digits. Didn't you get the email?

Never mind, problem solved.

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jcgadfly wrote:Loc

jcgadfly wrote:

Loc wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Ex. "The doctor told me I had cancer. My church and I prayed for healing. then I went in for the surgery. the surgery was a success and I went in for weeks of radiation and chemotherapy. Now I don't have the cancer. Jesus healed me!"

Please tell me that was an example and someone didn't actually do that.

I've actually heard this statement and other statements like it.

 

Nevermind the question of where Jesus was when they got the cancer in the first place.

"He's testing your faith!"

Good night, funny man, and thanks for the laughter.


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Little Roller Up First

Little Roller Up First wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Loc wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Ex. "The doctor told me I had cancer. My church and I prayed for healing. then I went in for the surgery. the surgery was a success and I went in for weeks of radiation and chemotherapy. Now I don't have the cancer. Jesus healed me!"

Please tell me that was an example and someone didn't actually do that.

I've actually heard this statement and other statements like it.

 

Nevermind the question of where Jesus was when they got the cancer in the first place.

"He's testing your faith!"

Also forget the millions of devout Christians who got cancer and didn't get better.  My father counts as one of these.

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jmm wrote:Her family says

jmm wrote:

Her family says its truly a miracle she is alive today. In fact, they give all the credit to God. They say the machines didn't save her, just the grace of God.

we'll see how they feel about "the grace of God" after they get the hospital bill. considering the state of the economy, gas prices, the cost of health insurance, the reaming we all get from medical expenses, etc. that "God" could have done them a little favor and extended his "grace" prior to her admission to ICU.

and if she fails to her survive her next heart attack, does that mean she fell out of favor with the "almighty"? or will they just blame that one on the doctors and nurses?

 

www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens


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djneibarger wrote:jmm

djneibarger wrote:

jmm wrote:

Her family says its truly a miracle she is alive today. In fact, they give all the credit to God. They say the machines didn't save her, just the grace of God.

we'll see how they feel about "the grace of God" after they get the hospital bill. considering the state of the economy, gas prices, the cost of health insurance, the reaming we all get from medical expenses, etc. that "God" could have done them a little favor and extended his "grace" prior to her admission to ICU.

and if she fails to her survive her next heart attack, does that mean she fell out of favor with the "almighty"? or will they just blame that one on the doctors and nurses?

So in other words, God's grace can only be real if the human condition is an ideal paradise? 

I'm being facetious, of course.  We all know than no matter how many good things happen in the world, there will always be a million things that atheists are dissatisfied with.  Heart attack recovery?  "Hrumph.  What about the medical bills?"  Veteran amputee learns to walk again with prosthetics.  "Bah!  Why didn't God make the limb grow back?"  Unlikely cancer remission.  "Why did he fall ill to begin with?" 

Don't get me wrong--I know that the problem of suffering is tough and confusing, but you just sound like an angst-ridden teenager when you respond the way you did.  Sure, not many people enjoy suffering, but the idea that human suffering is proof that God does not exist is arbitrary at best.  Suffering allows us to more fully appreciate times of prosperity.  That's not cosmic or mystical, that's a physical and psychological truth.  Suffering also allows us to more fully understand who we are.  If life was nothing more than beers, steaks, pleasure cruises, and weekend getaways, then sure, suffering makes no sense, but this is simply not the nature of things--life on earth is cruel and unforgiving.  No one said it would be otherwise. 

So my question is, what is the basis for the idea that the existence of God is mutually exclusive with the reality of suffering?  And please, don't bother with "Even I could have done a better job at governing the universe" comments, because such comments are empty and void of meaning.  It's like saying "I could have done a better job in the Super Bowl than Tom Brady"--maybe so, but it would be impossible to find out.  The reasons are obvious. 

Why must life be free of suffering in order for God to exist? 


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jmm wrote: I'm being

jmm wrote:

 

I'm being facetious, of course.  We all know than no matter how many good things happen in the world, there will always be a million things that atheists are dissatisfied with.  Heart attack recovery?  "Hrumph.  What about the medical bills?"  Veteran amputee learns to walk again with prosthetics.  "Bah!  Why didn't God make the limb grow back?"  Unlikely cancer remission.  "Why did he fall ill to begin with?"

Atheists wouldn't be saying these things if theists didn't keep crediting man's efforts and triumphs to god. For instance,if an amputee did learn to walk with prosthetics,that would indeed be good, and atheists would agree.But if a theist must then credit that act to god, then we might as well ask why god didn't jut provide a new leg.Surely that would be easier than personally inventing prosthetics,getting trained in physical therapy,devoting hours to this person,as well as taking the person's pain and effort onto himself. Oh wait,he didn't do any of that either.Just give credit where it's due.

jmm wrote:

Why must life be free of suffering in order for God to exist? 

It doesn't have to be.Only for a omni-benevolent god to exist.

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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jmm wrote:Why must life be

jmm wrote:

Why must life be free of suffering in order for God to exist? 

who said that was the case? isn't a tremendous amount of human suffering directly tied to the belief in god? when someone narrowly escapes death, is god not credited? when thousands are killed in a natural disaster, is god not credited? is there not a god related tag line for every possible turn of luck? "god decided it was his time", "god was watching over them".

does ignoring the boring and unpleasant reality of medical costs and financial hardship and unavoidable loss, and focusing only on the fantasy world of "grace" and "miracles", make your day-to-day more blissful and carefree?

personally i choose to believe advances in genetic/diagnostic testing and preemptive medical care could've saved this lady a trip to the hospital and her family a great deal of stress. prayer just gives them a false sense of security.

www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens