sapient,- got a burning question for you-
Posted on: May 22, 2008 - 4:13pm
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sapient,- got a burning question for you-
sapient, your a smart guy. the sun, burns at the right temperature-perfect distance from from earth . earth, has right amount of spin. moon, pulls ocean currents to keep oceans from going stagnant.. gravity, exact amount. Q: What are the chance these set themselves up all on their own, on a first time go?
1 in what?
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obviously 1 in 1 because it happened ^_^
I agree with DS - 1 in 1.
Coincidentally, this is the same probability that you'll write about God doing all of it with absolutely no proof for that or him.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Q : what are the chances a DNA helix can build its self?
-your saying a 1 in 1 chance because it did. are you saying God set this up 1 out of 1 times? -
Q: what are the chances it could have done it on its own?
Can't say anything about god until you or he/she/it proves his/her/its existence. You have no proof of his/her/its existence so you have no proof that he/she/it set anything up (unless you're holding out on us).
As for your questions - again, as it did do it on its own the chances are 1 in 1.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
In before Mattshizzle posts the "not this shit again" cat.
rugerac556, you're obviously not a smart guy if your level of comprehension of the English language is anything to go by. What you are proposing here would only be a valid argument only if the Moon, the Earth and the Sun were the only three objects in the entire universe. It doesn't take in to account any of the other planets in our solar system, let alone the billions of other stars out there as well as their associated planets and moons (for those minute few that managed to form planets with moons that is). The idea of "a first time go" is also quite hilarious to say the very least. Do you honestly believe the natural universe can rewind and reset itself?
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
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"Coincidentally, this is the same probability that you'll write about God doing all of it with absolutely no proof for that or him."
"As for your questions - again, as it did do it on its own the chances are 1 in 1."
--what proof are you using to support your belief that a DNA helix can build its self?--
Evolutionary biology (not an expert but can find journals). What you got? Oh yeah, the Bible and apologists.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
"The idea of "a first time go" is also quite hilarious to say the very least. Do you honestly believe the natural universe can rewind and reset itself?"
-the Big Bang sapient, your not that dumb
Exactly...
rugerac556, If I rolled billions of dice, throwing each out 1 at a time and leaving them on the table (it's a big table)... should I be surprised if I end up with a cluster of 6's? what about a 123456? Should I be surprised if 6 of them end up exactly 1 inch apart on the table... the perfect distance? Of course not, I rolled billions of them. But of course if there was an ant on one of those dice, he could ask "Is it just a coincidence that these dice are 1 inch apart, ordered in 123456 perfectly? I think not" Yet he is discounting the billions of chances there were to make this happen!
Keep in mind, humans didn't have a planet designed for them. On the contrary, the one planet that ended up in the right zone to produce life, did.
"Evolutionary biology (not an expert but can find journals). "
--I'm going to put the notion God is a creator into a trash can--
name the person who says 'a DNA helix can build its self' who states this claim?
the DNA helix is useless without the cell, the cell is useless without the DNA helix. has any atheists ever told you this?
so what im hearing is "What are the chances of something creating itself if it doesnt exist prior to the creating"...?
In which case, i am now laughing
What Would Kharn Do?
Although I must admit I am flattered, I am by no means Sapient. My username on this board is "Thingy". Now, please show your evidence that the big bang is the universe rewinding and resetting itself for another go.
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
Censored and blacked out for internet access in ANZ!
AU: http://nocleanfeed.com/ | NZ: http://nzblackout.org/
"Keep in mind, humans didn't have a planet designed for them. On the contrary, the one planet that ended up in the right zone to produce life, did."
out of the big bang, gravity ended up exact. a change of 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000001%(37 zeros) in gravity will result in total destruction of life. the odds, that is the number?
"so what im hearing is "What are the chances of something creating itself if it doesnt exist prior to the creating"...?
In which case, i am now laughing"
----what is your faith on 'origin of life'?......not 'origin of species'----- your having a bad mix up
"Now, please show your evidence that the big bang is the universe rewinding and resetting itself for another go"
--im going to take back saying: 'your not bumb.' sapient,(don't be ashamed of it) what are the odds?
No faith boy'o, no faith... heck, i ainta even talkin aboot origins, i'se talkin aboot how God done did it!, God done did it all, avery lassed bit! i'se no need for faith! i knows that God done did it
(Thank you AAL, i think i shall steal that phrase for my own purposes)
-_-
I was previously mocking the very idea that something can poof itself into existence if it didnt exist before hand... self-creationism, as it is...
What Would Kharn Do?
what is your idea on origin of life? do you even have one?
1 last time for the people in the back!
God done did it!
(why the fuck cant i access my yellow sarcasm font?)
What Would Kharn Do?
your giving me a useless parable,
i know you got it in you, what is your idea on origin of life?
I'm a little late but might as well join the fun.
Whatever the chances are of a seemingly perfect and complex structure arising,I know one thing. The chances of a being so more advanced that it could create these already complex things is even less than the structures arising by themselves.
So ya, it might all seem a little unlikely. Actually,if you read the replies,not that much, because as has been said, the earth is one succes in billion and billions of failures. Now what are the chances of a being so powerfull it could do all this arising?
Add a cup of Occam's Razor,serves one theist.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.
---what is your idea on 'origin of life'----
----dont be ashamed to say it-----
That's false about gravity as are many other christian claims about the sloar system - life as we know it could survive anywhere from halfway to Venus all the way to Mars orbit on a planet with the right size/composition. And the sun doesn't "burn" - it's nuclear fusion.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
oh... do we really have to talk about origins of life? its so... bland, and concrete... how about... origins of existence? or the beginning of the universe? or who ate the last baby
What Would Kharn Do?
I predict some serious PWNage if Deluded_God or another actual scientist shows up.
cherrypicking?
My opinion is the exact manner life started is as yet unknown to science.Just like electricity was once.And the germ theory of disease.And the movement of the earth.
That doesn't mean zeus makes lighting,demons cause disease, a giant bettle raises the sun, or anything created life on earth.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.
Its called "Effort" Matt, most of us just dont have it in us
What Would Kharn Do?
So far you've ignored every answer given.Irony?
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.
no 'origin of life', no 'origin of species' ---dont say its boring and dont be ashamed to share your beliefs on it
Ok, so whats the question im supposed to be answering now? with all my trolling ive completely lost track, and am far to lazy to re read the entire discussion... i'll answer this time, i swear on my baby rations
What Would Kharn Do?
coming back @1030 pm est
in the mean time have Deluded_God chew on this ' on origin of life, no origin of species'
---its shameful dawkins & Higgins haven't schooled up their fellow atheists on the subject----
*grins*
I'll go make sure that DG sees this right away.
Oh this is going to be fun!
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
"and thus, the RRS website explodiated from the sheer amount of quad-grigabytes posted by Deluded God, so much information pillaging caused the Encyclopedia Brittanica to forever develop an inferiority complex... and Wikipedia curled up in a corner, rocked back an forth, sucking its thumb... mumbling incoherent pop-culture references.
So it was, so it is written... and so it shall be..."
What Would Kharn Do?
The above paragraph is so filled with misinformation, I don't know whether or not to laugh or cry. Can you really be serious?? Jeebus! Your (note the difference between your and you're) spelling and grammar are atrocious. As the resident spelling and grammar nazi, I feel perfectly fine with calling you out on this.
From there, the whole thing goes downhill. Let's take it one at a time:
1.
This shows that you have no earthly (pun intended) idea about astronomy, stellar evolution, physics, etc. The "right" temperature? Please, enlighten me, what temperature, exactly, is this?
I'm sure you are aware that the sun is a star, and in being such a thing, it has a life span. I'm not going to give you an education about stars, but you should know that the sun's temperature is anything but "perfect." 99.9 % of all creatures that lived on earth are now extinct. The temperature of the sun is increasing over time...eventually, it will burn out and become a red giant star. Every year at least a million people die from skin cancer caused by the sun. This doesn't sound too perfect to me.
2.
Define "perfect." You are aware that earth is a planet, and as a planet, it has certain attributes, as does the sun (as a star). As objects in a solar system (I'm trying to keep things small, so you can understand them), I'm sure you understand what happens, over time. Right?
3.
Has the right amount of spin? A moon that pulls ocean currents to keep oceans from going stagnant? Since none of these words make any sense, these comments can't be addressed. But you are completely misinformed about the rotation of the earth, the moon, the tides, ocean currents and..."stagnation" of the ocean.
In order for you to ask a question of Brian or anyone else here, don't you think it would make sense to have some clue as to what you are talking about? How can you have a conversation about something of which you know absolutely nothing about to the extent that you can't even formulate a simple question? Have you not taken basic courses in grade school, such as earth science?
4.
5.
Uh, statistically speaking...the chances are >0 but <1 that "these set themselves up all on their own, on a first time go" or whatever that means.
But we are here, so here is your proof that it happened, just not in the magical way in which you are insinuating (probably that it appeared out of nowhere in an instant). It took billions of years to get to the point that the earth, sun (pick your stellar object or whatever...) is at "today", which is different than the point it will be tomorrow. But what do the statistical chances of something taking place have anything to do with anything?
BTW, I have a friend who won the Ohio lottery a few years ago. He won 36 million dollars. What are the chances of a person winning the lottery (any lottery)? Not very good. But that doesn't stop millions and millions of idiots from descending upon Las Vegas (etc.) and betting their hard-earned money, when they know that the odds are that they will lose.
Heh. Well Ento, I didn't feel like jumping in with this guy because repeatedly responding to this level of ignorance gets so tedious. However you have inspired me. So I feel like expanding on what you started.
That's a combination factor, my friend. For Sol's temp and the earth's distance to line up in a range that promotes liquid water, yeah we do fit within the proper zone. That zone is called the Goldilocks zone. This leads to the Drake equation which is a mathematical construct to predict how probable life is. The Drake equation originally did not factor in the greenhouse gas content of a planet's atmosphere, which when factored in greatly expanded the possibility of life in the universe.
As for how many chances possible for a planet to fall within it's parent star's goldilock zone factoring in the greenhouse gases contained on that body...well... How many planets in our tiny solar system are in that zone? Looks like 1 out of 8. If you want to count the dwarf planets it's 1 out of 11. That's in one solar system. So what? There are billions of galaxies with billions of solar systems with billions of planets orbiting them. Earth may be 1 out of 1,000,000,000. Even at those odds, statistically there must be earth like planets of a fairly large number out there.
What? I think you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The amount of spin doesn't have that great of an affect on earth life. Just the day/night ratio. Actually the earth's spin is slowly winding down. Our days are longer than the days the dinosaurs experienced. Guess what? Life still exists.
Yes, our large satellite the moon does keep the ocean from going stagnant. This is really good for some life. And not so good for other life. Mosquitoes love stagnant water and breed their young in them. So stagnant oceans are not a threat to all life. Not in the least.
Our gravity is the exact amount for what? For your weight scale to tell you that you weigh the same today as you did yesterday? Gravity is not that big of a factor on life. We have a wide range of variation in gravity that could support life. Earth gains billions of pounds of weight every year from dust falling onto us from the universe. Meteors of all sizes. From near global killers, to baseball size, to tiny grains. The heavier the earth gets the more gravity.
Gravity, like spin, like day length, like temperature, is constantly in flux. It is not staying static in the least. Yet life keeps existing. Explain that.
Are you "smart", rugerac556? If you are I'm not seeing it. I just see ignorance in you. Do you want to stay that way? Ignorant? Or do you want to learn the truth no matter what the consequences? If you want to know truth and not comfort then carry your ass out of Sunday School worship and learn something about reality. Either do that or just memorize verses from an ancient book written by people that could barely understand life.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
"Uh, statistically speaking...the chances are >0 but <1 that "these set themselves up all on their own, on a first time go" or whatever that means."
--1 followed by a 1 hand how many zeros?
--share the knowledge--
"This shows that you have no earthly (pun intended) idea about astronomy, stellar evolution, physics, etc. The "right" temperature? Please, enlighten me, what temperature, exactly, is this?"
---you are not stupid are you? do you understand the term 'nutshell' ? do you pretend to be stupid, or are you just truly that dumb?----
Bring on the asshat avatar.....
10:30 why the delay-
10:30 why the delay-
10:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
-WORTHLESS-
--you give us all kinds of questions, but accept no answers. Answer this. How did life begin? Where did it come from?
Can a cell form from organic material through evolutionary processes? Yes. Want proof? You exist.
Respond to us in a meaningful way or you are making yourself look like an idiot.
Remember, me, you, those of us currently posting are the debaters. We're trying to win the audience that isn't posting. You are losing horribly. The audience is realizing that you can't stand up to us.
Epic fail, Rugerac.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
I answered the questions...you just didn't like the answers. Are you a grade school student? A 7th grade earth science book should answer your questions in more detail.
Clearly, the temperature of the sun, the earth, etc., is far from perfect. It is not constant, and it will not last forever. Did you get that one?
Our solar system (the universe yada yada), as it is now, is just a temporary thing. Do you understand this?
There is absolutely NOTHING exact that is "perfect", etc. Did you get that part? Do you understand that things, as they are now, have not always been as they are now, and that they will not stay as they are now.
I don't have time to teach you basic astronomy, but you could learn something about it before asking ridiculous questions. Seeing as you lack basic spelling and grammar skills, I calculate that the probability of you reading a scholarly book about astronomy is about 0. If you really want to learn, but don't want to buy a book, go here:
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Dr. Tyson has Ph.D. in astrophysics, yet gives talks that a normal person can understand.
I'm not trying to be mean, but part of the problem is that when you write a senseless, rambling, incoherent sentence (and calling Brian "Sapient"--his technical last name--that is just rude.) as you did in your OP, I really can't take you seriously because you come off as completely uneducated in all aspects and slightly whacko.
There is the obvious attitude that you think some pie in the sky god just planted all this stuff here...which you really want to believe, but something made you come here. I find that very interesting. Do you want to believe in dogma, or do you want to know the reality and the answers to your questions?
I see that you don't get statistical probability. I don't have time to teach you that, either. But if you really wanted to, you could learn statistics. I don't think you will do that, either, so I will leave you with this, a lecture from Stephen Hawking. I hope you know who he is. He mentions probability in this lecture.
Life in the Universe
One thing I can tell you for certain is that the chance (probability) of any god existing is almost 0....literally, it is something like:
0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000001
Again, your lack of knowledge about these subjects results in your being unable to formulate a question and comprehend answers. I can see why you would prefer to believe the dogma. It requires no neural activity.
Since this can be applied to me aswell...
WTF? people actually read these forums? you mean to tell me... there could be people observing me being a complete and utter jackass? i didnt sign up for this!! i just wanted to act like a dick infront of a few people! not be on display like some animal at a zoo!! showing off my homo-assinineous
heritage
What Would Kharn Do?
A cell can "assemble itself with the parts laying around"? Do you realize how utterly STUPID that question was....because you think the answer is NO when it is YES. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! Given the right circumstances, the right molecules, the right energy...a new molecule could form, could form more complex amino acids, then proteins...then life! There was no thought process involved, just the right circumstances.
In a nutshell (not literally, but you are the one who seems to like this word), the earth had lots of water, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen...and energy from the sun. Now you have the chemicals and energy to allow the chemicals to dissolve in water and form chemical reactions. Complex molecules are formed. They have sex...life on earth has begun.
That is the quick version. Go read a damn book and educate yourself. I'm not wasting any more time on you.
And BTW:
Yeah, I'm stupid and dumb.
And YOU can call me Dr. Entomophila in about 8 months. Get it?
Once again I point out that my username on this website is Thingy, not Sapient. If you take in to account the number of stars, planets and moon in the entire universe, the odds that at least one of them would come in to an alignment that could support life is actually quite good. If you choose to ignore all the evidence, facts, truth etc, then the odds are quite bad. So the question to you is, do you want to continue to be willingly ignorant?
I was actually going to ask you that question. You still haven't figured out that I am not Sapient, you still don't seem to be able to use the English language at a 5th grade level and your arguments are all based on ignorance rather than understanding (i.e. I don't understand so it must be sugar daddy in the sky). It is the old pot and kettle argument.
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
Censored and blacked out for internet access in ANZ!
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I just had a quick peruse through his past threads most of which have been merged here, and they're all exactly the same rhetoric. Pathetic barely comprehensible and barely explained arguments, all from ignorance. This guy never gives any indication he has even the slightest clue as to what he's talking about and any responses go well above his head so none of it sinks in in the slightest. We're all wasting our time here. Does anybody have a troll badge handy?
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
Censored and blacked out for internet access in ANZ!
AU: http://nocleanfeed.com/ | NZ: http://nzblackout.org/