Double standard for theists
Offline Here is something interesting: Christians are always talking about Stalin and Pol Pot, as if they woke up one morning and said: "I am an atheist, so I'll kill lots and lots of people."
Thing is, it is a shame these murderers existed in the twentieth century, when Christianity didn't have the sharp teeth it used to have, unless you count Hitler, whose theism is debatable, according to Christians.
They were tyrants, and they are seen as tyrants. But when it comes to theocracies, theist crimes, and those in charge, Christians sing a different song. Recently, it was determined that Leonardo DaVinci is the most influential person ever. And one of the people in the list is, of course: Charlemagne.
Charlemagne massacred a lot of people who refused to convert to Christianity. The guy had concubines in his palace and defended Christian ideals -- provided they didn't apply to him. He ordered the beheading of 4500 Saxons for refusing to convert to Christianity. He fought for Christ, against Muslim saracens, and against Saxons whom he regarded as savages. Imagine that lunatic with the kind of weapons Stalin had, or Mao.
Then there is Francis Xavier. A saint. But guess what? He traveled to Asia and said that an inquisition was needed there. That inquisition arrived eight years later, and to this day, we don't know how many Asians were tortured and killed.
Imagine us atheists putting people like Stalin on altars and saying they are influential. Or having Lenin as a Saint (actually the Kremlin sort of has him as a saint, but that's their problem). They'd claim we are murderers at heart, or something of the sort. There's definitely a double standard here.
Offline Two words: Oliver Cromwell.
Never Mind, trust to chance -- keep a sharp look out -- There is many a happy slave.
--Charles Darwin, on whether or not he ought to marry.
Offline Two words: Oliver Cromwell.
And all of the back-and-forth civil war and killings in England when they were trying to decide if they'd be Catholic or Anglican, when the entire difference between the RCC and the CoE was "Who's in charge of the church?".
Yeah...
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
Offline Hambydammit wrote:Two words: Oliver Cromwell.
And all of the back-and-forth civil war and killings in England when they were trying to decide if they'd be Catholic or Anglican, when the entire difference between the RCC and the CoE was "Who's in charge of the church?".
Yeah...
Does anyone watch the tudors on showtime? It is a historical drama centering around King Henry the 8th and his reign. I download the eps and it is excellent. The conflict at the center of the show is the church wars and reformation, with Cromwell being a prominent character. This war of ideals and sectarian strife killed a lot of people, and Peter O'toole as the Pope is great.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda
Offline Oliver Cromwell in the time of Henry VIII?
Was he even born back then?
Offline Oliver Cromwell in the time of Henry VIII?
Was he even born back then?
Well, it is a coproduction between Showtime and the SciFi channel.
Spoiler Alert:
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Catherine of Aragon is a cylon.
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maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.
Offline Henry VIII adviser Cromwell and the English Civil war MP Oliver Cromwell are two different men, living about 120 years apart.
jeffrick
Offline Ah. That's better.
You expect 'historical dramas' to take liberties in 'historical gaps' and indulging speculation but to contradict known historical fact would just be plain wrong.
Online Henry VIII adviser Cromwell and the English Civil war MP Oliver Cromwell are two different men, living about 120 years apart.
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Offline This is from Wikipedia (about Oliver Cromwell):
In Britain he was elected as one of the Top 10 Britons of all time in a 2002 BBC poll.[1] His measures against Irish Catholics have been characterised by some historians as genocidal or near-genocidal,[2] and inIreland itself he is widely hated.
It seems I found another fine example of a double standard.
Offline This is from Wikipedia (about Oliver Cromwell):
Quote:In Britain he was elected as one of the Top 10 Britons of all time in a 2002 BBC poll.[1] His measures against Irish Catholics have been characterised by some historians as genocidal or near-genocidal,[2] and inIreland itself he is widely hated.
It seems I found another fine example of a double standard.
No, that's not a double standard... that's just a normal product of one man's effect on two nations. Think about the way Gen. W.T. Sherman is viewed in the northern US v the southern US. Or the way Gen. G.A. Custer is viewed by 'whites' v aboriginal american peoples.
We Irish have long memories when it comes to tyranny. I still wince whenever I hear anyone order a glass of layered Guinness and Harp (which I've always known as a 'half-and-half') as a 'black and tan'. The Black and Tans were the Royal Irish Constabulary Reserve Force, an especially brutal group of scum employed by Britain to attempt to stem the tide of Irish independence from 1920 to 1921, and good, innocent alcohol should not be tainted with the association.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
Offline Christians are always talking about Stalin
Fuck, I should do an encapsulation of this guy, too...
Henchman of reason, intellect, logics, and facts
aka, 'Plant Boy'
Offline Hi everyone, I'll respond to the OP real quick.
I'm a very religious person and this doesn't apply to me. My argument is that people are close-minded, non-questioning of authority, and also unwilling to free themselves of the bonds/philosophy that ancient warmongering men have passed along. IF we were a lot different (especially this long ago) many terrible things would be extinct with the coming of independent thought. But that is harder to do than you may imagine (at least for many regular people.)
I have a different view from many of you though, I don't consider the above people religious. Many religions are about freeing yourselves from these old thoughts that have been imprinted on us. A very good thing indeed.
Really my point is that even without religion we'd still have some FUBAR thoughts, actions and ways. People are blind and don't think for themselves but I agree with you all that organized religion has made that even worse.
ites
It is said the great ones catch teardrops in their hands.
Offline I have a different view from many of you though, I don't consider the above people religious.
I wonder if the Scottish wince when they hear a whole room full of atheists shouting, "No True Scotsman!"
Never Mind, trust to chance -- keep a sharp look out -- There is many a happy slave.
--Charles Darwin, on whether or not he ought to marry.
Offline Breaking news-theists are hyprocrites.
In other news: Air is good for you, smoking is not, Ann Coulter is a man and fire is hot.
Offline In other news: Air is good for you, smoking is not, Ann Coulter is a man and fire is hot.
"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." --Emo Philips
Offline I thought she was one of those puppets with a stick up her ass.
Offline I think she is okay, for she has her big foot in her horse's mouth. And because no one in his right mind will fuck her, and that means she won't procreate. I pray to the non-existent entity that she doesn't.
Laura Ingraham is worse. She is rude, ignorant, and a little cuter. She may reproduce someday, assuming she hasn't already.
Offline Breaking news-theists are hyprocrites.
rpcarnell wrote:Thing is, it is a shame these murderers existed in the twentieth century, when Christianity didn't have the sharp teeth it used to have, unless you count Hitler, whose theism is debatable, according to Christians.
I don't think it's even debatable.There's no reason to think Hitler was an atheist,he was mad though(certainly at the end) I think it's best to just leave him alone,but christians just can't.
Let's not even bother with fairly modern expamples.Go straight to the source-the bible.
Midianite massacre Num.31:1-35, BT
God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT
God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT
God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT
For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19
"The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14
Ta for more interesting examples.
I can see it coming, so I will say it before anyone else does:
"Who are you to question God?"
Your worst enemy: thinking human being, who knows that 2+2 always equal 4.
Nobody can question his will in "his" domain ? Oh, it is so similar to let me think...Communist Russia ? III Reich ? Cambodia of Pol Pot ? Oh, damn...I am sure it wasn't a thing you would like to hear.
I am a human being and I will question any of your imaginable friends.
Ecrasez l'infame!
Breaking news-theists are hyprocrites.
I don't think it's even debatable.There's no reason to think Hitler was an atheist,he was mad though(certainly at the end) I think it's best to just leave him alone,but christians just can't.
Let's not even bother with fairly modern expamples.Go straight to the source-the bible.
Midianite massacre Num.31:1-35, BT
God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT
God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT
God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT
For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19
"The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14
Loc'n'Load
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
"Don't stand beside my grave and cry,
I am not there. I did not die."
I can see it coming, so I will say it before anyone else does:
"Who are you to question God?"
I find it odd that theists can deny the evidence of evolution and believe in creationism based on no evidence whatsoever.
I don't think it's even debatable.There's no reason to think Hitler was an atheist,he was mad though(certainly at the end) I think it's best to just leave him alone,but christians just can't.
Let's not even bother with fairly modern expamples.Go straight to the source-the bible.
Midianite massacre Num.31:1-35, BT
God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT
God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT
God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT
For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19
"The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14
Basically you are saying it is ok to kill many if god tells you it's ok. Since Hitler and Stalin weren't given permission it was wrong. Hitler was just following the example of the crusades and the history of jewish intolerance of christians during the middle ages.
"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS