Are any of you really atheists?
Offline That's an odd question to ask, I agree. Give me a moment to explain myself before you answer.
The term is an odd one, you must admit, in that it describes the absence of something. There aren't many words that work in reverse like that.
Which makes it uniquely vulnerable to being abused. One particular abuse of the word allows folks to think of "atheists" as a homogenous group like the word "Christians" does, as if atheists were an organized, dogmatically driven group-thinking lot. This can get awfully silly, like the charge leveled at atheists lately from several ostensibly independent sources: That evolution by natural selection, and specifically Darwin's "Origin of Species", is to atheists as the "New Testament" is to Christians.
Which leads me to ask that odd question. What I mean is: Is there any single one of us that really labels ourselves as an atheist first, before any other facet of ourselves? Personally I consider my atheism to be a subset of my skepticism, which in turn is a subset of my lust for knowledge.
I get the feeling that everyone's atheism is going to be removed from his or her sense of who they are by that kind of distance. On this board alone we're a diverse lot, and there is a very great deal of disagreement on a great number of subjects (surprisingly good natured disagreement, really. Y'all should be proud of that.).
So, how about it? Anyone here really "an atheist"? 
"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." --Emo Philips
It's a bizarre idea, isn't it? The default position seems to be whatever the majority religion is in your area. So you have to come up with "atheist" so that people know you're self-shunning. Even "secular" has a negative connotation in some places. "Destroyer of spiritual comfort" would be a loose approximation.
Even worse are the anti-theists like me (I guess I'd be an "anti-supernaturalist", but that doesn't really roll off the tongue). Not only do such evil creatures want to agitate people's comfort, they actively pursue the destruction of even the IDEA of the supernatural. What jerks!
Will: no gyration without funkstification.
I agree with Sam Harris on this.The word atheist shouldn't exist.We don't go around calling people a-santa clausers,a-astrologies,a-fairies in the garden etc. However I think religion is so prevalent in soceity most people can't just grasp if you say "I don't believe anything.' We need something to define us,at least for now, even if it's defining nothing.
Ya well they never were too clever.I haven't read Origin of Species but I'm still an atheist.I hope..
I think I do.Maybe it's because I'm still a relatively new atheist, or because I spend the vast majority of my day thinking about it and reading various atheist forums. I do tend to think of myself as atheist before anything else.I'm not sure if that's a bad thing, but it's the main attention and passion of my life at the moment.
Yes?
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Life is good, and people who believe in afterlife fail to understand this.- Mindcore
How are you asking me, if you are asking me for my religious views, then yes I AM AN ATHEIST. No questions about it, I am pretty hardcore about that fact, because I know that the evidence given to me about the supernatural deities that everyone has put forth has no evidence to back it up, from christians through muslim, to hindus and beyond, no one has provided the proper evidence that any of them exist, as such my position is that of an atheist, but if you ask me what I am.....well I am Canadian first and foremost
. A believer in the good of humanity (some say humanists but I beg to differ) and believer in science and the knowledge that it has brought to us.
This is a great question JillSwift
My husband ordered business cards for work recently and asked me how he should list his name and title. Of course I said - Name first line your title on the second line; you are who you are, not the title you hold.
It got me thinking about 'labels' and I kidded around with him about creating a business card with my name and title 'atheist'. Of course this was all in jest but your question has brought me back to that conversation.
I couldn't imagine walking around exclaiming "HI, my name is Renee and I am atheist!!" For me if the subject is brought up regarding a theistic belief I will advise those proselytizing that I am atheist and regard the word the same as I would if someone offered me a Dr Pepper and I tell them I don't drink Dr pepper.
As far as being labeled or known as "renee, an atheist" I would rather be - Renee - always smiling, positive and tolerant....and atheist!
"Tell you once you had better listen because tell you twice and I have spent one more breath closer to death. ."
For me, I'm a husband to a goddess, a father and a grandfather...
'Atheist' only comes into play when the subject turns to religion.
Recently at work (in the hospital), one of the good people I work with made a comment about my apparant religiousity (no put down, it was because I am a bit concervative and tend to take a moralist stand point over issues of suicide and human stupidity). She was absolutely shocked when I told her I was in fact, an atheist. (shocked, but not in a bad way, I guess she just assumed I was a Southern Baptist)
LC >;-}>
Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacrements of canibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.
I bet if you think about it, your passion may be better defined as "skepticism and rationality over dogmatic/magical thinking" over "atheism". Betcha betcha!
"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." --Emo Philips
Ok maybe I'll use that defintion just to make you happy.Sheesh
I feel mocked
So what would you call yourself by the way?
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Life is good, and people who believe in afterlife fail to understand this.- Mindcore
Feel free to let me know I'm wrong, hun.
"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." --Emo Philips
No I do actually think you're right. I can see where calling atheism a passion as opposed to skeptism and rationality would give theists cause to cry" it's your religion!' I think I've usually though of them as interchangable terms, probably wrongly so. I still find it easier to identify with atheism though. I generally don't think of it as merely unbelief-to me it's unbelief and by default skeptism and fighting theism.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Life is good, and people who believe in afterlife fail to understand this.- Mindcore
Well, I don't like the term either. I don'tlike the 'brights' term either.
I prefer the terms 'honest or sane about beliefs' or 'non-superstitious'. The religious are either lying or delusional about what they believe.
But there is no consensus to change this, so the terms theist and atheist are going be with us for a while longer. It's kind of like how African Americans were called and called themselves the N word until the zeitgeist changed.
Another question, should so-called atheism be the organizing principle for a group? For now maybe, just like there were anti-slavery groups 150 years ago, they went away once that tyranny ended.
Stop global whining.
I would say we should still have groups like the RRS around even if we do somehow manage to eliminate religion - there are plenty of other irrational beliefs - UFO's. astrology, psychics, etc. I seriously doubt religionwill ever totally be eliminated - I'd be happy if it was seen the way most people see people who claim to have been abducted by aliens.
Science works whether you believe in it or not.
Yes. I am really an atheist. And I'd argue that there's no such thing as an orthodox atheist. Atheism is orthoprax--that is to say that it's more about what you do and don't do rather than what you profess. An atheist doesn't pray, worship or attempt to communicate with any God in any way. An atheist doesn't take into account the hypothesized opinions of any God when he makes decisions. Obviously an agnostic or a deist could behave in the same way, but the difference is that the agnostic and deist do have a professional stance.
The richness of our language is such that we have these and many other words to split hairs and develop classification schemes. It's the cultural predominance of theistic ideas that necessitate these levels of classification, because we need to know who we're talking to in order for conversations to progress. The reason we don't need "afairyist", for example, is that the most marginally educated adults don't believe in fairies. I don't need to qualify that. They just don't.
But I agree with Will and others who've posted that atheist is not the only religious quality in which one can fit. I'm an anti-theist first. And a Ricardian at some point down the line, too.
"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell
When it comes to a strict choice, are you an atheist or a church-attender, I'll of course answer, that I'm an atheist.
But I'm much more than that. I'll paraphrase a TV serial now, the truth is a three-edge sword. Theists' version, atheists' version, and the truth itself. It's simple to say that something exists or doesn't exist, but it's not so simple to be aware of numerous important aspects behind that question. The world is not divided on the black or white, and the answer is not always clearly yes or not. It depends on how and why you ask, what are you aware of, and what depth of the answer you're able to understand and use in practice.
I have no need to believe or disbelieve, when I know. I can believe in a good intentions of some politics, or that national hockey team will win the world championship again, and I can disbelieve, when a street salesman forces me to buy a really original Hugo Boss perfume for 13 dollars. But when it comes to something I really know, or consider as highly probable, it's not a question of belief.
There is only one truth, which will set you free. Yours.
I just wanted to point out: non-smoker, virgin, abstinent, rookie, uninfected, pure, perfect, clean, sober, innocent, unmarked, etc.
There are plenty of words that we use daily to refer to things that are absent some condition.
However, to answer your question, no, I'm not an atheist first, just like I'm not a non-smoker first. I'm a pragmatist, a wonderist, and a physicalist, in that order, in terms of what I do believe in.
Q: "Isn't it a miracle that the universe/life/consciousness/myself exists?"
A: "No."
----
For any person P, question Q, and concept X
If the asking of Q depends on the existence of X, and P asks Q
Then X exists, and P should not be surprised of that
While I accept the point about the etymological weakness of the term, I still think it is necessary for those of us who don't believe in God to have an easily identifiable label. If the snowball is ever going to get rolling, politically, it needs a pebble to gather itself around.
I think we all wear a number of labels depending on the context in which we are speaking. When the topic is religion, I am an atheist.
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
Exactly. But that concept would be unfortunately foreign to the average mind. I certainly agree with Sam Harris that the label does damage, and limits a person, but what label doesn't? People calling themselves Christians even qualify with some sub-group like "Catholic" or whatever.
It's like an obsession with the western mind to categorize! If I'm a student who works as a construction worker and runs a hedge fund (and I am) then what am I? Am I a student? A hedge fund manager? Or a construction worker? Now I'm an atheist, too? Who would need to be so obsessive as to determine what label to slap on me?
It's some sort of labelling = control mechanism, or the belief that knowing the name of something gives you power over it.
Will: no gyration without funkstification.
I quite like "godless heathen", personally.
I use the phrase somewhat jokingly among friends, but actually "godless" is generally an accurate term for atheists. "Atheist" always sounds a bit intellectual, whereas "godless" sounds kind of dangerous and sexy. It says "I don't have any stinkin' god telling me what to do!"
Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.
Why Believe?
LOL RRS ....
Yes to the OP, because I AM simply "religiously" anti-theist.
As you might know, I deal with theists NOT by saying, "NO there is no god" etc but by re-defining and/or "examining" religious terms, that we get from the Bible and Buddha writings etc, and ALL our folklore. Some say I play word games .... well yes, of course, and no .... Yin Yang ! Consider carefully what a "word" meant to the person who said it, and then who hears it ..... Words and emotional reaction to them .... and the evolution of all language, math, philosophy and religion. The "average mind" .....
SO HEY, First I am God, therefore I AM 100% atheist. At first, I avoid the "atheist" word with new people I meet, and instead say I am god, just like Jesus and Buddha tried to tell us ..... ((( Many of you RRS fans know my rap by now ....
An example of when I am asked : ---- Do you believe in god? Yes. Jesus? Yes, I know of the story. Have you accepted Jesus as your savior? Yes, but that story was just one of many which spoke the same wonderful "saving" message of zero superstition, zero separation from "god" as all is One with the "father/mother" cosmos.
What religion are you? None, as I am god as everything is god, therefore I am an atheist, just like some Jesus and Buddha philosophy. I don't do "religion". I AM GOD.
But isn't that a religion? No, God has no master, and no religion of worship. I am god, therefore I am atheist the opposite of religion that worships anything. Religion is idol worship, a devil idea of wrong thinking.
NOW I have a question (plus) for you theists: Have you read the ancient 10 commandments? No god before me, a wise one wrote, who asked god in his head, "how will I tell them what you are god?" , and god in his head answered, "Tell them I AM what I am" ..... YUP < I AM GOD AS YOU ! ......
Theist don't like me much, as they still kill me ..... as I AM JESUS resurrected ..... who's message is the "christ perfection" of knowing this simple "ONENESS" ..... and the danger of separationism and dogma superstition .... Love (understand) them and the dogma enemy, as in YOU, and there won't be an enemy ..... not a fellow earth citizen eventually ( I hope) .....
Yes I know, some people are just fucking even medically crazy ..... don't "punish" them ..... Opps, getting off topic here. But yeah, "Crime and Punishment" ??? and a bottle of Rum ...
Merrily atheist I AM ... and then I have some fucking complaints too .....
I AM an atheist preacher, not a "god" debater. ( because me is god)
I agree with Tilberian. Before explaining, I will answer the original question. I self-identify as an atheist because atheism is a specific cause of mine. I love skepticism and science and learning, but most of what I learn in those fields is directed towards the goal of spreading atheism. I can't think of any way to describe myself other than anti-theist, atheist, or activist atheist.
I want to keep atheism for the same reasons that gays wanted to keep calling themselves gay, despite the popular perception of the word as negative. As you can see, thirty years of good marketing have had a big effect. Though it's still pretty common for people (myself included) to use the phrase, "That's gay," in a derogative sense, that sense is distinctly removed from the meaning of "Tom is gay." (At least if you're not homophobic.)
I'd rather change people's perceptions of atheism than go through all the hassle of coming up with another word to describe ourselves, only to have that word become negative. Until the public perception of us changes, any word we use to describe ourselves will be perceived negatively. Words, as you know, only have meaning in context. Without it, they have no power at all. Say the word, "nigger" to someone who has never learned English, and it has no power or meaning, despite how powerful it is to us English speakers. A racist who is socially pressured to stop saying "nigger" doesn't stop hating blacks. He just attaches his hate to whatever word he's supposed to use. Have you noticed that a racist will rant for ten minutes about how stupid it was for blacks to make whites call them "African American"?
Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. -- H. G. Wells
I confess, I am an atheist.
I’m also an asmurfist, aghostist, aleprechaunist, aelfist, awitchist, aloch nessist, abigfootist, aphrenologist, asupernatralist, amagicist, etc
I think you get the point.
Do I think there is a possibility that these or similar "things" exist?
No, I have absolutely no belief that "things" that do not exhibit any evidence of itself exists.
I'm suspious of those who claim supernature "might exist" and still claims to be an atheist.
I'm atheist
I AM. You can say I am atheist but it doesn't define ME as entity. I am mature enough to not follow any idea blindly.
Ecrasez l'infame!
Blind_Chance
And some buddha said , "believe nothing I have said, but trust your own common sense" ..... "Beyond Language???" .... Yeah, there is no "entity" .....
You asked; are you realy an atheist? / on this web site / in this forum, most deffinately YES. But in other aspects of my life I am meny other things. I can sing opera, basso beritone; would you like to hear? I can recite vast passages of Shakespeare ( part of the voice training). At 6'2" and 240 lbs I can shread a door with my bare hands, without injury and I have the conviction & probation report to prove it. AND ( I hope hiswillness is reading) I spent a year in Guelph ONE day, eh?
jeffrick
I don't exactly go round thinking "Hmmm, I'm an atheist" all the time. But, that said, I think it is a major thing for me, the same way I'm a musician and a philosopher. But it doesn't contribute massively to the way I act or am, or my personality very much, I am a strong atheist, but unlike strong theists this doesn't actually change who I am to any great extent. When it comes to my creativity I am a musician, when it comes to my desired occupation in life I am a philosopher, when it comes to my diet I am a vegetarian, when it comes to my religious belief (or lack thereof) I am an atheist.
I totally understand and agree with what you say. I don't like labels at all, they should only be used to help describe something, not to catagorize it.
The problem is... what do you call it? As you said, we are are diverse group brought together loosely for discussion.
Non-religious doesn't really cut it because it includes theists. Anti-religious sounds a little more active. Atheist is actually a good term, it has just been given a lot of baggage. It should only be used to descibe where someone stands on religion.
As many religious folks are intollerant any term we come up with will be loaded up with the same baggage in a short space of time.
I definately don't consider atheism my primary facet, just a desciptive of where I stand on religion.
Jesus said, "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." - Luke 12:51
The main obstacle of Peace on Earth is religion.
I guess. I mean, I'm not religious...you could call me a Bright, I guess.
Talking to Theists
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