"Spiritual Healing" - Let's put it to the test. Atheists/Agnostics are particularly welcome

hideyoshi631
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"Spiritual Healing" - Let's put it to the test. Atheists/Agnostics are particularly welcome

When I read the theta healing thread, I was reminded of this. I decided to create a new thread for more exposure with a new aim, where instead of just discussing the various claims, we could actually put them to the test and see what they're about. Now, I am not sure if theta healing is the exact same as the healing offered by the website I'm going to link, but in any case they sound similar - long distance energetic healing. The way we can do this is, the man who runs the website, spiritportal.org, offers a free 20-minute session of distance healing. All you have to do is contact him at http://www.spiritportal.org/contact.html (the email is mrln9@hotmail.com) and set up a time for a free introductory session. During the healing all you need to do is lie down and relax, and observe your body/feelings. After you have the session, I hope you will come and post your experiences. I hope that you guys will be as open as possible to the experience, as I bet that the majority here doubt the possibility of such a transmission of energy, especially at a distance with someone you have never met, never seen, never known. It will take a minute to write the email, and then twenty minutes of relaxation to realize the test. Also, having myself experienced the healing, I am sure it will benefit everyone who undertakes it, whether they realize it or not.

 

Now I want to ask a few questions: How do you guys feel about this right now, and the possibility of it? How would you feel if during the session, you were to experience something which you could not explain to yourself as resulting from anything but the healing? And were you to experience such a thing, how would you feel about the healer's relevant claims? (That is, this is healing from "the source", or God.)

 

Here is a somewhat long excerpt on the methodology:

 

Healing Methods

 This work is not just at the level of the psyche, but something much deeper and very difficult to describe.

Just about the very first question people ask me upon hearing that I am a healer is "What method do you use?" Since all methods originate from the Higher Self - and I am a channel for the Higher Self - I could say I/We do all methods. But the greatest method I practice and teach is "Surrender". In relation to you, this begins with the intention to listen to and follow the agenda that your own Higher Self and God have for you. If that involves this work, then after we all bestow our mutual consent, my Higher Self performs your healing.

 Depending upon the areas of your need, there are a great many levels of consciousness, energies and vibrations that my Spirit has access to and can apply in the healings. For marketing purposes, a number of these "techniques" have been coined (by others within the healing community) with a variety of impressive sounding names, but I shall simply refer to them here as "methods":

Method
When Spirit works on your inner "Core" (the "vertical axis" of your being) the healings may begin anywhere "within" this actual channel and move up or down, either from the top end of the cord above the head (where the higher chakras are located - closer to the God Source) or at the rooted end of the cord below the feet (where the lower chakras are located - at the Mother Earth-Kundalini Source). This is a rare healing technique. For many, this inner "Core" may energetically and psychically appear and be experienced as a thin deflated balloon. When Spirit connects with your inner cord and begin to transmit the healing, your "inner balloon" inflates and expands, pushing the darkness, karma, entities... further from your space until all that is left within and around you is a full round ball of your own light. For many, this can be the first time (in a very long time) that such a powerful sense of integrity has been felt by the soul. Each time you expand and reclaim another level of yourself, its like stepping into a new "ring of power" (and we have many - some we are in and can access, some we have not yet tapped into). It is during this expansion process - as your light is expanding and the darkness is being pushed out - that many feelings of conflict and confusion may be experienced.   This is the true battle of "Armageddon" - and it is being fought between these forces of light and darkness that are in you.

 Many people say they can heal themselves, but they don't realize that there are external forces and beings that are working against your healing... often with combined resources more powerful than made available to an individual soul. Over lifetimes, these forces and beings may have set up powerful fortresses and fortifications in you. And for all the vested interests and agendas they have in your future, they do not want to leave your space (jealously coveting the inroads that have been made into you).  This is not even taking into consideration ones' own ego (that most ruthless of all self saboteurs) as well as dark aspects of ones' own consciousness that could be in cahoots with these outer forces and beings. This is when you need a spiritual ally who can intercede on your behalf.

The healing process that I initiate and support inside you (once you choose to accept my assistance) pushes or squeezes this "negative stuff" out of the inner core, chakras, and/or subconscious self... and forces it to the outer surface of your body-mind-emotions... eventually being released or discharged into the light and/or into the planet (which can accept it).

 I may knock at your "door" but I will never force my way in.
I can help you to heal yet I cannot force you to want to be healed.
I will not interfere in your karma until you ask and empower me to.

Method
In some cases, instead of working from the inside of your core outwards, Spirit may be directed to work from the outside of your energy field inwards (this is a common technique among many healers). As my energy field outwardly connects with yours (on the "horizontal" axis levels at the various chakra energy centers and dimensional planes of existence) either the darkness/negativity is outright removed (called "psychic surgery&quotEye-wink or, merging your energy field with mine, I/we burn up or transform your negativity (karma) in my/our combined and strengthened energy field. After this is accomplished (and after every session) my Spirit always disengages from your space.

Method
My Spirit may summon other spirit beings that you need to connect (or reconnect) with in order to further support your healing. Sometimes this "summoning" may include bits and pieces of your own soul (called "soul retrieval&quotEye-wink.

Method
A method often employed is to surround your being with a zone of protective energies...  somewhat similar to the cocoon a caterpillar would use as protection while it prepares for its transformation into a butterfly. If you have a tendency to be pulled out of your core by distracting external influences, this method can also be used to reflect, redirect and mirror your outward going energies and attentions back inside yourself, thereby using them to feed your own healing process.

Method
Sometimes Spirit sends life energies directly to the individuals being worked on, filling or recharging their "life batteries" (this method is generally called "Chi Kung&quotEye-wink. Everyone has this ability to give of their own healing life force to another (kind of like jump starting a car). Many healers use this as their primary form of treatment... but to rely on this alone would just prolong ones condition and further create an external dependency. This sort of treatment would only be a quick fix... one that would not address the underlying causes of the disorder. For example, if the battery in your car was defective (and could not hold a charge anymore)... or if the battery cables or terminals were corroded... one may be able to get a "jump start"... but if the cause of the problem was not fixed, you would need such a "jump" every time you wanted to start your car. It's the same with drinking coffee... which stimulates your adrenals... which kicks out adrenaline... which gives you the energy boost. But if you keep on drinking it, you will eventually fatigue and deplete your adrenals... then all the coffee in the world won't help. This just goes to show that most long lasting and profound healing occurs not by throwing energy at a person from the outside, but by working on the underlying factors that caused the problem in the first place. ("Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime&quotEye-wink. Healing work done on these deeper levels takes more time (and money) yet in the long run they are so much more empowering, eventually enabling one to access their own "Source" every moment of every day.

Method
For you to fully receive the deepest healing, the doors of your "ego-mind-will" must be wide open, and you must have freed up the internal space to make room for the new to come in. To do these two things is the biggest hurdles of ones healing. One frees up internal space by giving up or "surrendering" that which you have in it ("It is in giving that we receive&quotEye-wink. Only then can more energy (prosperity) be able to flow in. One of the laws of physics states that "the universe abhors a vacuum". This happens to be a spiritual law as well. When you have created the internal space, the universe cannot resist but rush in to fill it ("Blessed are the poor for they shall inherit the Kingdom of God&quotEye-wink.

One of the most powerful methods I use to help create that inner space and generate a receptivity and attitude of openness involves money. To the ego-mind-will, "Money" symbolically represents energy, intention, commitment and willingness (among other things). Since the ego is one of if not thee biggest causative factors for ones illness (be it spiritual or otherwise) we must address the ego in our healing methods - a bitter pill to take, but a necessary one. Since the ego and money go hand in hand, releasing the one affects the other... and since few can directly release the ego, the easier method is to release ones "death grip" on money.

The statement "The more you give the more you shall receive" illustrates the energy dynamics required to increase ones flow of prosperity (this is true in any area of ones life). Most people are congested in these "prosperity flows", holding firmly (being attached) to the denser and lower levels of material energy and consciousness that clogs up ones channels... which does not allow for anything new to come in (this actually affects all of ones life, not just in the financial area). In electrician terms, this congestion can also be seen as internal "impedance" or "resistance". This resistance is the limiting factor in what can be channeled in and through you, without you first blowing a psychic or energetic "fuse" (so to speak). When the ego-mind-will sets up the intention to heal and backs it up with a financial commitment, this actually facilitates a softening - relaxing - releasing up of the internal resistances/impedances, opening up ones being to allow for inner (spiritual) and outer (material) flows of prosperity (it does work... no kidding).

Method
"Counseling" may be required to make one aware of areas the mind has (conveniently) shut off (or out), it expands ones mental understandings and it encourages the will to continue with the healing process. However, most of the time, talk is not enough. For a radical and permanent shift to occur, issues must be thoroughly worked out in an energetic way. It may be the counseling that gets you "To" the "Door" of your stuff, but it is the energy work that moves you "Through" it and onto the other side. When one is ready to stop the talk and take the leap through the "Doors" of your "Inner Life", this work is here for you.

Method
Many people are inwardly at odds with their own self, having different aspects of their ego-mind-will-heart-soul-spirit moving in conflicting or diverging directions. One aspect may truly be desirous of moving towards love and light (this is the part of us that reaches out for help) while another aspect may resist and sabotage our progress at every step of the way (this is the rampant ego gone mad). It is the ego-mind-will (and its pride) that thinks it has the power to do the healing... and it is the ego-mind-will that is also resistant to receiving any outside intervention. Yet as is the nature of our mind-will, we are free to change it... but doing so is another matter, often requiring the assistance of the Higher Power to support our heart felt pleas (but the Higher Power will not come in until we ask sincerely). To generate an honest desire, prayer may be suggested... but if it comes from the mind alone, prayer may not be enough.

Method
Sometimes it is important to do nothing... allowing a person to go through certain life experiences without any intervention whatsoever. At certain stages in a souls learning process - before a soul is even ready to whole heartedly and humbly ask for help - it must know what it is like to go it alone, stumble or even fail miserably. At some point, this soul must accept, honor and show gratitude for all such experiences as preparations to being more open to Spirit. Until that time, there is nothing I can do for this person except wish them well and wait till their moment has come and their soul is ripened, ready for the next stage in their evolutionary process. When this time comes, this soul will appreciate even more the intervention of Spirit.

Other Methods
There are so many more methods and approaches that I (vis-à-vis my Higher Super Conscious Self) may use in the healings. The descriptions mentioned above are some of the most basic that come to mind, but most of these other "unmentioned methods" are way beyond my human ability to comprehend, let alone conceptualize. None the less, I hope this helps answer your question "what methods do you use?"


magilum
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Your terminology isn't

Your terminology isn't meaningful.

 


hideyoshi631
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Care to elaborate?

Care to elaborate?


magilum
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hideyoshi631 wrote:Care to

hideyoshi631 wrote:

Care to elaborate?

I can rephrase it, but there's little else to say. If you're going to introduce bizarre and meaningless terminology, what follows isn't logic.


hideyoshi631
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If you're referring to the

If you're referring to the methodology, first of all, then I didn't write that. Quite frankly, it doesn't make any sense to me either. Yet as you can see, if you read what I actually wrote, the whole purpose of this thread isn't even to discuss that. In retrospect, I don't think I should have even included that part of my post. The entire purpose of the thread was to first, encourage people to actually try the healing so that they might from their own experience determine its factuality as opposed to read about it and then discuss. Second, it was to get answers to the questions I posed about how they think such an experience might affect them, and then see how they feel after.


magilum
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 Even your mention of the

 Even your mention of the transmission of energy is a non-sequitur. Your reasoning unravels pretty early on.


hideyoshi631
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You can ignore that sentence

You can ignore that sentence too, if you like. The main line of reasoning here is that there is such a thing as distance healing, that we can try it with no cost to ourselves save a little bit of time, and from that draw our own conclusions as to its validity. I do not see what is wrong here. I am not trying to prove anything - I am offering a challenge, for you  to prove to yourselves.


HisWillness
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hideyoshi631 wrote:. I do

hideyoshi631 wrote:
. I do not see what is wrong here. I am not trying to prove anything - I am offering a challenge, for you  to prove to yourselves.

I think maybe the problem that madge is having is that putting this idea to the test subjectively would be subjective. You would accomplish exactly zero, even if you could get a statistically significant group of people to respond. The results would mean nothing, because the mechanism you want to test becomes untenable immediately.

Originally, it looks like your post is satire, because you've eliminated everything that could be tested, and replaced it with pure bias (bravo). It's almost like a test for the placebo effect. This would, in fact, be the purest test of the placebo effect available. So, personally, I thought this was a joke.

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deludedgod
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Your post is laden with vast

Your post is laden with vast amount of vague and incoherent terminology which indicates you are unable to give rigorous and coherent definitions of precisely what you are talking about. You have to rely on vague language because you are expressing meaningless propositions. If you cannot give iron-clad, rigorous definitions of the following

Quote:

Higher Self, energies and vibration, Spiri, "Core", actual channel, higher chakras, "inner balloon", darkness, , karma, "ring of power", soul, spirit energy, life batteries, energy dynamics, "Door", inner life, Higher Super Conscious Self, your "stuff", "psychic fuse and resistance", "ego-mind-will", channelling, "prosperity flows", inner/outer flows, internal space, zone of protective energies

etc. ad infinitum. This language is vague, incoherent and meaningless. The several coherent claims you made were false. "The universe abhors a vacuum" is a metaphorical expression. It is not a law of physics. In fact the vast majority of the physical universe is a vacuum. Second, you took many rigorously defined terms in physics and turned them into meaningless terms by applying them to meaningless principles. I cannot possibly accept any of your knowledge claims until you provide rigorous, iron-clad, well-defined, meaningful, coherent and sensibile definitions for your assertions. Virtually every sentence you employed relies wholly on vague and soft language that does not coherently describe anything at all. As I mentioned before, several terms you used are, under normal and rigorous circumstances, physics terms which have no meaning outside the context of physics. I will now give rigorous definitions of these terms:

We say there is an equivalence between mass and energy called the mass-energy equivalence given by E=mc^2.Energy is a scalar property of a thing. We say that a macroscopic gas container has an internal energy, we say that electrons in shells possess a certain energy level, etc. ad infinitum. Energy is simply a measure. Consider state change. These states in turn are macroscopic properties, measured in terms of bonds being formed and broken within a system, into which energy can be transferred, or removed. When we speak of energy as a scalar unit in physics, it is not as if to say that energy is some sort of "substance". For example, suppose an exothermic chemical reaction inside a box which transfers heat energy outside the box into the surroundings. In this case, the mechanism by which this occurs is merely that increase in the kinetics of the particles, better known as raising the temperature, a transfer mechanism which eventually reaches outside the box (presuming it is a conducter). Here again, it is simply demonstrated that energy constitutes a scalar property of these particles which constitute the reactants per se, which is conserved as it is transferred from chemical bonds, into the form of increased kinetics of the particles within the system itself. With respect to state changes, it's more or less the same, depending on which direction you go, of course.

If you wish to articulate your propositions again, bearing this in mind, I shall be happy to receive. Frankly, whenever I hear about anyone talk about "energy" and "energy transfer" I ignore them unless they have equations (which I do, and which indicates they are talking about meaningful concepts in physics, not meaningless spiritual babble).

Since your borrowed a great deal of meaningful terminology from physics and managed to turn it into meaningless terminology, we need a rigorous definition of transfer of energy which shall be given here.

Since you borrow much terminology from electrical physics, I feel it is necessary to give rigorous definitions of these terms to demonstrate that your usage of them is not correct.

 

Resistance

There is a direct relationship between how much energy is carried per charge and how much charge can flow per second. This depends on the degree to which the material through which the current flows “resists” the flow of electrons. The electrons in a current-carrying wire are running through a solid object, albeit with gaps they can transverse at the subatomic level. This means they will collide with the immobile ions in the material. This causes them to lose energy. When a matal is heated, unless it is specifically designed to counteract increased resistance due to heating (such as Constantan), the increased movement of both the ions and electrons will result in greater collision, hence greater resistivity. Ohm’s Law states there is a constant of proportionality between the energy per charge and the rate of charge flow, and this constant is called the resistance, R:

V=IR R=V/I

This law, however, only applies to Ohmic conductors. Non-ohmic conductors do not display a direct relationship. For example, tungsten filaments are non-Ohmic since they give off photons when heated by an electric current, which is why they are ubiquitous in light bulbs.

Because of this law, it is also possible to define power in two more ways. The first has already been encountered:

P=IV P=IV

Which can also give:

P=I2R P=I^2R

And:

P=V2R P=V^2/R

Since power represents a differential function on an energy input/time graph, by this specific example, we can now give a precise definition of transfer of energy. the transfer of energy is represented as a rate-function, given as a differential equation:

P=W/t

or rather

P=lim(dt>0)(dW/dt

I could keep going, but you get the idea. The terminology used by physics, "transfer of energy", "resistance" and so forth is meaningful. The way you use it is not. If you wish to be taken seriously, you must provide meaningful definitions. Naturally, this entails equations.

 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

Books about atheism


Renee Obsidianwords
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I practice meditation. This

 

I practice meditation. This service sounds like meditation with someone else taking the credit. Sort of like praying for something and receiving it..ultimately giving credit to whom you prayed to...you know pure BS.

I would encourage anyone interested in this service to ALSO attempt your own 'inner healing'...notice the free session will require you: "During the healing all you need to do is lie down and relax, and observe your body/feelings" Try this without strings attached first! Note how you feel  Smiling

The next thing to think about is what is your own definition for spirituality? ( I think there was another thread on here about that) For some it may be a feeling of relaxation or calm which may equate to peacefulness. Others may actually think those feelings are sourced from something outside of your own mind.

A free session sounds interesting, only to see if I can achieve the same feelings that I do with relaxation meditation.

Renee

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http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/


jcgadfly
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"Sort of like praying for

"Sort of like praying for something and receiving it..ultimately giving credit to whom you prayed to...you know pure BS."

What always got me was when people would pray for something and then go out and get it themselves and still give Yahweh the credit for answering their prayer.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


HisWillness
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jcgadfly wrote:What always

jcgadfly wrote:
What always got me was when people would pray for something and then go out and get it themselves and still give Yahweh the credit for answering their prayer.

Or that complete bullshit "The Secret" thing, where you focus on something and get it. No, Timmy, the Universe didn't get you the bicycle, grampa did. Don't be a little ingrate.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence