The Democratic Campaign
Anyone else here besides me disappointed Hillary won PA yesterday? It's not that I hate Hillary. I don't particularly like her but it's not that. I just want the campaign to end. It just seems to be dragging on painfully. And even though I think Hillary might be more qualified to be president than Obama I'd rather have Obama win the nominatin because I really don't want McCain to win (he's just 4 more years of Bush, as far as I'm concerned) and I think Obama has a better chance of beating McCain. Surveys have shown there is more sexism than racism in this country so I think Hillary has less chance of beating McCain. Why is there more sexism than racism? Because of stupid f***ing religion! I've heard women Democratics say they can't vote for Hillary because the Bible says a man must lead! A woman cannot be a leader in their backwards little minds, even if she has the qualifications. It's not surprising to hear that from men but to hear that from women is just f'd up. So if Hillary wins the nomination I won't be feeling very hopeful for a Democratic win in Nov. Oh, I hope, I hope I'm wrong! But I'll be a lot more worried.
"The Bible looks like it started out as a game of Mad Libs" - Bill Maher
pauljohntheskeptic wrote:Yellow_Number_Five wrote:
I'm sorry, but you have nobody to blame for this but yourselves and the representatives you elected. The rules were CLEAR, and the representatives you elected chose to defy them anyway and had the gall to be upset when said rules were actually enforced. You should be outraged, but not at Obama, not at Dean, but at your elected officials and since you elected them, yourselves.
I am sick of the mindset this sort of bitching is indicative of - that we deserve a do over or some sort of bail out when the rules we all agreed to actually get enforced.
Actually, I don't have myself to blame for this particular fuck up. I didn't elect the
Republican that voted for it nor the felon state senator.
Right, because only that guy voted for it an no democrats did at all, lol.
There were a TOTAL of 3 Nay votes by members of Florida's House and Senate for the bill in three rounds of voting. The bill was nearly unanamously supported by BOTH parties.
I already knew this. Your statement was that I had no one else to blame but myself and as I said I did not vote for the legislators from my district that voted for the bill, so you're wrong where you placed the blame. To be correct you should not have said you, instead more appropriately it might be your elected representatives.
You should also look at what was contained in HB 537 before you condemn the Dems for voting yes. It included a paper trail in event the electronic voting process fails again as in the Sarasota area where a Republican won because the machines were programmed in a bizarre way. It was a multifaceted omnibus bill and they needed most of it. That was their logic anyway. I would have voted no and put the Republicans against the wall.
Quote:Yeah, I was pissed they did it. I'm not pissed at Obama or Clinton but the DNC, Dean, and the Florida legislature.
Why be pissed at the DNC? Both the DNC and RNC told Florida EXACTLY what would happen if they moved the primary, the Florida legislators simply didn't think the rule would be enforced or matter. Don't forget the Republicans sanctioned FLA too, cut their delegate weight in half.
See below. Selective enforcement of the rules is why. Stupidity in isolating Florida and Michigan so they will likely vote for McCain this fall.
Quote:Make sure you pay back next time you have a state election - you should essentially be voting out all encumbants.Payback will come.
I always try. So I should vote for more religious fanatics to represent me is that what you mean? A choice between evils has been presented how nice. I can vote for Republicans that want to make God and Jesus required for US citizenship or I can vote for weaklings that can't stand up for their constituents. Such a choice.
Quote:I'm not asking for a do over just follow the rules equally.
The rules are being followed - both the DNC and RNC have done EXACTLY what they said they would do. If, as a Democrat, you don't like said rules, you should petition your party to change them. Fair warning was given.
No they are not being followed as the other states are not being punished. I don't understand why you think this. Even if guilty the harsh punishment contrived was beyond the prescribed.
Quote:It seems you ignore as does the DNC and the mainstream media that other states other than Florida and Michigan violated the same DNC rule 11A.
We already know that Florida and Michigan violated Rule 11.A. by moving their primaries to a date before the first Tuesday in February. There is no argument there, but what about Iowa, New Hampshire, and yes, South Carolina too.
IMO, all states who violated should get the same treatment. You agree though, that FLA violated the rules, hence, my argument stands. The selective enforcement of the rules is something you should address with the DNC, and not germane to my argument.
As it stands, FLA DID violate the rules, and was warned what would happen if the did.
If you get pulled over for speeding and the guy next to you going just as fast doesn't won't change the fact that you were speeding. End of story.
Irrelevant to this discussion.
Poor analogy. A police officer can only pull over one speeder at a time while the DNC is quite capable of punishing all of the states for breaking the rules or ignoring all of them as they did with Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada. It is just a form of suicide the Democrats seem to love. Let's see how we can fuck this up again and give another election away.
Quote:Please explain why the other states get to break the DNC rules and Florida and Michigan do not. If this is arbitrary then how is that not discriminatory and violating equal protection laws.
I can't explain why it's not being enforced across the board, but like I said, it doesn't change the facts. Again, you should address this with the DNC.
Quote:The Florida State Democratic Party followed the DNC rules before and after the state legislature passed the primary change. They opposed the law, proposed alternatives that followed the rules. Yes the legislature passed the change but over objections by the state party.
NO, the FLA dems did NOT oppose the bill, they voted for it in droves, see my link above (it was co-sponsored by about a dozen people and propsed by two as well, several of which I'm sure are Dems), and YES, they DID violate the rules, as you admitted. Like I said, end of story.
There is a difference between the Florida State Democratic legislators and the Florida State Democratic Party. The DNC rules refer to the State party's actions in opposition not the small powerful subset of legislators. As it stands the state law now does not comply to DNC rules. Considering it hasn't been overturned by the Republican legislature and won't be what do you suggest be done. A little help from the DNC for example might be nice.
Quote:If you think none of this matters think again, Florida will loom large in the November election and being ignored in the primary process will sink the enthusiasm that was shown here:
If we don't count in the selection process why should we care who you select to run. It will be a candidate imposed by 48 states on 2 unfairly by discrimination. Penalize all the states that violated the rules or penalize none. If not watch for the eventual outcome of the equal protection lawsuit sometime in 2009.
Oh, I KNOW it matters. Like I said in my first post in this thread, the Dems always seem to find a way to shoot themselves in the foot.
There lies the problem for me. I was a Republican since voting for Nixon in 1972. Over the years the Republicans lost my support as they became perverted with hypocrisy and religion. During Reagan's years I voted independent in revulsion to the new positions they had taken. After my Congressman Bill McCullum one of the House prosecutors for impeachment decided pursuing Bill Clinton's blow job was more important than representing his district I completely turned on them. I finally saw the Republican party no longer supported civil liberties and state's rights. Big government to them now only meant in relation to taxes not government interference into an individual's life. Goldwater considered extremely conservative in the 60's would now be more or less a liberal. Republicans using religion as part of their ideology completely have lost their way. I realized the Democrats more or less had taken up the defense of civil liberties. Consequently when Bush invaded Iraq I formally became an Independent. I remained as an Independent until they started promoting further erosion of liberties and state rights. The final straw came on the promotion of a Constitutional amendment to define marriage. I am not gay, but that completely discriminates against part of the citizens and subverts states rights. The Federal government has no business in defining anything in these areas, look at prohibition for example. That is when I became a Democrat in 2006. I saw that the only way to stop religious fanatics and two faced violators of the Constitution was to actively oppose them.
Along comes the stupidity of the Florida legislature and the equal stupid response by the DNC. So here we are where the choice becomes for Florida Democrats to pick between a candidate that is being imposed on us in the fall general election or to not vote for them and allow more Republican control of our lives. A choice between evils is now presented to the Florida Democrat. Which is more evil, disenfranchisement by your own party or more deterioration of America by warped conservative religious fanatics that have no idea what conservatism really means.
Hopefully the DNC rules committee see the mess as suicide and correct their arbitrary harsh punishment on 5/31. If they don't and the credentials committee doesn't in July it matters little who the candidate is of the Dems as they will be tainted. I have not said who I support as it doesn't matter, even if the candidate I support wins the nomination it still is a 48 state candidate imposed on two.
As atheists we are part of a minority that is constantly discriminated against. That should mean we should understand discrimination and work to prevent it. I don't understand how you as a member of a minority want to persecute or deny other minorities. As no one needs to be a Democrat or a Republican it is suggested that this is not discriminatory as the parties are as private clubs. So other than a governor who was a wrestler in Minnesota and Lieberman how likely is it that Independents can have any effect in America? It seems if you can control who is on the ballot you can pretty much control who wins. That is why I oppose the discrimination being practiced by the DNC.
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.