Why 'The Blasphemy Challenge' doesn't work...
Offline A RESPONSE FOR DENIAL DENIERS
In the video for "The Blasphemy Challenge" we read this quote, "...but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This is a sin with eternal consequences." (Mark 3:29 NLT)
We then watch as the following words appear - "If You Deny the Power or Existence Of The Holy Spirit You Are Damned To Hell FOREVER"
We see a brief example of someone denying the existence of the Holy Spirit, and then we are challenged to "Commit the Unforgivable Sin"!!!
Only one slight problem. It strikes those of us who've actually finished Chapter 3 of the Gospel of Mark (if not the whole Chapter then at-least-through-the-very-next-verse) as odd, does it not, that our atheist friends may have actually convinced themselves that they've committed an unforgivable sin?
Allow me to explain:
Mark, Chapter 3, Verse 30 - "He told them this because they were saying, 'He's possessed by an evil spirit.'"
Hmm...so the context in which this arises is basically this, Jesus is casting out demons and the people around him do not know how to react to him, they are beside themselves with fear. Some of the religious leaders, to account for Jesus' behavior, then accuse Jesus of being possessed himself by an evil spirit. Jesus then asks them the famous question, "How can Satan cast out satan?" and warns them not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit........not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.......so wait. Jesus is saying, "I do have a spirit in me, and those of you who curse the spirit within me and call it evil (i.e. they said he was possessed by an evil spirit) are bordering on an action that has definitive eternal consequences. If you actually convince yourself that the spirit within me (Jesus) is evil, then you are sending yourself to hell."
Well now here's the problem with all of this - Jesus does not tell them that denying the existence of the Holy Spirit will damn them to hell, he tells them that accusing the Holy Spirit of being an evil spirit will damn you to hell. ("He told them this (that they were committing an unforgivable sin) because they were saying, 'He's possessed by an evil spirit.'"
But how can you accuse something that does not exist of being evil?
(1) Accusing the Holy Spirit of being a spirit of evil is an unforgivable sin.
(2) In order to accuse something of being evil - the object of your accusation must be real.
(3) You deny the existence of the Holy Spirit, therefore,
(4) You cannot accuse the Holy Spirit of being evil (anymore than you could accuse the flying spaghetti monster of being evil)
(5) Since you cannot accuse the Holy Spirit of being evil because it does not exist,
(6) You have not committed the unforgivable sin.
In order to actually make the Blasphemy Challenge legit, you must first come to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit exists, and then, once you've reached that conclusion, you must convince yourself that it is an evil spirit.
So to those of you who've actually taken this challenge, you can rest peacefully now - you have not committed the unforgivable sin - whew, right?
Sincerely,
- Skeptnick
Google.
Note how most threads about it begin, "Oh no, not this again."
"We don't have to justify the things that don't make any sense anymore."
~former Scientologist Greg Barnes
xenutv.com
I haven't heard this a thousand times before. THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE FACT.
All I can say to Magilum is - you didn't refute anything I said.
I can't answer for magilum, but I think that was the short version of "it really doesn't matter." It's a gesture of solidarity for a sub-culture, not a theological statement.
Will: no gyration without funkstification.
Like Will said, the Blasphemy Challenge wasn't meant as a literal way to damn yourself to hell.That would be hard since like you say, we would have to believe in the holy spirit and hell first. It's more a way of standing in a predominatley theist world and saying we aren't afraid to challenge religion.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Life is good, and people who believe in afterlife fail to understand this.- Mindcore
So... all you really have to do is redefine blasphemy and poof! No blasphemy challenge.
I sense a pattern here.
All you have to do is redefine science and poof! You get Intelligent Design.
All you have to do is redefine faith and poof! All atheists really believe in god and they're just in denial.
Seriously, though, I agree with Loc completely - it was a successful marketing ploy. Period.
"I basically subscribed after I checked out that thread that Sapient posted on expenses and the like. Groceries are one of the most important items, so I'm hoping I'm helping there and I'm hoping I help Sapient break even. If I can help stop him from dipping into the retirement fund, I'll be happy." - The Sarge
It is strange what will cause you to do something stupid. I had this flier on my door when I got home Saturday night and it was about the "Choose Jesus" Area Wide Crusade in Ponca City, OK, where I currently live. Anyway it was April 13-16 so being that I like to hear what these people like to say, to stay sharp in a way. I went. Much of the same blah blah "praise Jesus" and stuff you would expect.
I took note but I will not go into all that. at least not yet. anyway the Keynote speaker name is Kevin Clarkson from The First Baptist Church of Newkirk, OK. At the very start he went off by saying "Christianity is under attack."
Strangely his evidence for this was two things. The books of authors [he called them atheist authors] Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens and The Blasphemy Challenge.
He said that ther is a group of people who are trying to convience "young people" to go into churches and blaspheme the Holy Spirit. The in the next sentence he said, "I really didn't see anyone blaspheming The Holy Spirit most were just saying they don't believe in God." And he didn't want to go into what "the unpardonable sin" was but he said "That there is still hope for those kids."
Plus he called agnostics Ignoramuses
He said in the ancient Greek it meant that and that is what you should call a person that says they are an agnostic.
So keep up the good work, you are on the front lines on the War on Christanity.
I've noticed being a christian makes you an expert on evolution and greek,even if you've never studied either. A christian claiming they're being persecuted? What breaking news!! It's odd how they're under such fierce attack.You'd think having a all powerful god on your side might help a bit.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Life is good, and people who believe in afterlife fail to understand this.- Mindcore
Ravi Zacharias likes to play that card also.
And for Clarkson's benefit, "ignoramus" is Latin in origin, not Greek.
The blasphemy challenge doesn't "work" (in regard to damning ourselves) because the holy spirit doesn't exist, and those taking the "challenge" are aware of that. However, the "you took that out of context" argument doesn't seem to fit Matthew 12:31 or Mark 3:29. The line is pretty clear, and Jesus does not soon after turn to his dicyples and explain that he only said it out of anger from being accused of having an evil possession and that it can be disregarded.
(Joshua 10:12)It was nice of God to stop the sun for the Israelites, as no one wants to slaughter Amorites in the dark.
The funny thing is that isn't not even Classical Latin, which might hint at a Greek origin. He has his history and language completely wrong. The French seemed to have used it as a legal term, but its current form, which would mean "we do not know" (first person plural present indicative of ignorare), is known more as a play of the same name written around 1600.
If he means that "agnostic" is derived from Greek, and means almost the same thing, then he's right. But only in the original senses, which weren't invented by the ancients.
Will: no gyration without funkstification.
I see. You must first believe in the supernatural, infantile ju-ju to actually deny said ju-ju ! Thus ju-ju is not offended.
Now if you could spend a little time applying this interpretive "logic" to muslim cartoons, we could really put a dent in the sheer # of death fatwas !!
Ahhh, something useful !
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
Hmm, I didn't realize you'd bothered to reply. It's such old news, and has already been addressed ad nauseam. The short answer is that it was meant to get attention, which it did; and the theological details only matter if someone believes they do, which I don't.
"We don't have to justify the things that don't make any sense anymore."
~former Scientologist Greg Barnes
xenutv.com
HOLY .....
GHOST .....
SPIRIT .....
WTF ? Can we take these words one at a time ,
Somebocy has never heard of "imminent critique"
ASSUMING CHRISTIANITY IS TRUE, those who take the blasphemy challenge are guilty of blasphemy.