Acupuncture

dassercha
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Acupuncture

An offshoot of my "Energy Healing" forum.

Can I get opinions on Acupuncture? I'm giving it a shot, but: am I wasting my time & money?  

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Jeffrick
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acupuncture

 Acupuncture is based on the ideal of dissapating the pain, or spread the misery over a wider area untill your brain can remove all the watered down pains. It does not cure the cause of the pain. You didn't state the actual reason for the treatment, is it something a GP/MD can't deal with?  I grew up around people with medical degrees, I personaly would always see the family doctor first.  Your pain may simply be mother natures way of saying,  "Sit down and rest!!"

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acupuncture

In short I think you are wasting your time and money.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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RSI/Carpal's--from typing,

RSI/Carpal's--from typing, mostly. I've tried resting it, massage, ice, heat, not typing, change diet, been to phy. therapists, on & on.

Ultrasound trmt. directed at my arm did seem to help, but heard controversial stuff about that as well; so, willing to try anything. Don't really wanna do the meds thing...I mean, yeah, mask the pain? no thx. Smiling

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Might i suggest something

Might i suggest something totally radical and opposite?

 

Instead of going out and trying to find some way to heal it, why not go down to your local gym and punch a bag, until it REALLY hurts. Take a few days to rest, and i bet it'll be good as new. (after all, what do you have to lose? )

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Seems like the studies are a

Seems like the studies are a bit of a mixed bag. There was one that confirmed that acupuncture helps headaches and backpain but take that with a grain of salt, since it is pretty much impossible to do a double blind study of a procedure.

IANAD, but it seems like it might do something along the lines of trigger endorphins and alter bloodflow. Meh. Either way, don't underestimate the power of the placebo effect.

 

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The Doomed Soul wrote:Might

The Doomed Soul wrote:

Might i suggest something totally radical and opposite?

 

Instead of going out and trying to find some way to heal it, why not go down to your local gym and punch a bag, until it REALLY hurts. Take a few days to rest, and i bet it'll be good as new. (after all, what do you have to lose? )

Tried that too...no luck Eye-wink

 

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dassercha
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triften wrote:Seems like the

triften wrote:

Seems like the studies are a bit of a mixed bag. There was one that confirmed that acupuncture helps headaches and backpain but take that with a grain of salt, since it is pretty much impossible to do a double blind study of a procedure.

IANAD, but it seems like it might do something along the lines of trigger endorphins and alter bloodflow. Meh. Either way, don't underestimate the power of the placebo effect.

 

-Triften

 

(And the new POS text edit box gives me its own POS right-click menu... sigh)

Thanks for the input.

The reason I'm trying this is b/c a friend said it helped them w/ similar issues...

 

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Renee Obsidianwords
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If all else fails...

If all else fails acupuncture MAY help you.

I have 2 herniated discs in my lower back, bulging discs farther up and osteoarthritis in my spine. The following things have had  limited effect:

-Pain management;

  • Physical Therapy
  • Steroid injection
  • Nerve block

Acupuncture has been a 'last resort' before considering surgery and it has been somewhat effective. Results lasting long enough to be able to complete PT. Personally I avoid medicine wherever I can so any alternative to being injected with medicine or consuming a pill is appealing to me.

Good luck!

 

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dassercha wrote:Tried that

dassercha wrote:

Tried that too...no luck Eye-wink

Oh oh i got it now!... get off the damn forums and dont use the computer!

 

should be fine in a few years >.> hehe

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here is a wonderful,

here is a wonderful, skeptical website on accupuntucture, http://www.acuwatch.org/. Its bascially pure quackery from what i understand the actual idea behinnd is "Acupuncture is a traditional Chinese medical technique for unblocking chi (ch'i or qi) by inserting needles at particular points on the body to balance the opposing forces of yin and yang." from http://www.skepdic.com/acupunc.html. Its based on pure magical thinking aka that chi energy exists and needs "balanced" .  Here is another good article from a neuroscientist about it http://www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=3


dassercha
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Renee Obsidianwords wrote:If

Renee Obsidianwords wrote:

If all else fails acupuncture MAY help you.

I have 2 herniated discs in my lower back, bulging discs farther up and osteoarthritis in my spine. The following things have had  limited effect:

-Pain management;

  • Physical Therapy
  • Steroid injection
  • Nerve block

Acupuncture has been a 'last resort' before considering surgery and it has been somewhat effective. Results lasting long enough to be able to complete PT. Personally I avoid medicine wherever I can so any alternative to being injected with medicine or consuming a pill is appealing to me.

Good luck!

 

Ditto to the "avoiding medicine" part of your post (yeah, that stuff will kill ye olde liver)!

Thanx for the input, Renee!!!! Smiling

 

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dassercha wrote:An offshoot

dassercha wrote:

An offshoot of my "Energy Healing" forum.

Can I get opinions on Acupuncture? I'm giving it a shot, but: am I wasting my time & money?  

Acupuncture is something I would never do personally simply due to it being a waste.  That said, I think the better question is whether or not you think it could help?  All it could do in my mind is the placebo effect as discussed in that other thread of yours, but for that to work I would say you'd most likely need to have at least some meagre belief that it could.  Personally, I don't have that belief.  Due to the possible placebo affect though, I've got no issues with people giving acupuncture a go as long as it's used in conjunction with modern medicine and not as a replacement for it.

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It helps

I suffer from seasonal allergies. It is really bad here in Atlanta,  I did try accupunture treatment for it.  Dont know if it was a placibo effect or not, this year was good to me.  I did have a little nasal congestion, but that was all.  It feels great to be able to witness spring.  The rainy weather has been a major player in reducing the pollen, so I cant say if it was purely the accupunture treatment that helped.  But I was in a bad way, and was ready to try any thing.  Hope this helps.

Minkz


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I would admit it might be

I would admit it might be possible that acupuncture creates localized inflammation which might affect vascular or neurological systems. Still, I don't see how it could affect as many systems advocates claim it affects. If we really want to get to the bottom of this I would suggest conducting the following experiment:

1. Get four groups people suffering from the same seasonal allergy.

2. Tell group A not to take anything for their condition and monitor.

3. Treat group B with medication.

4. Blindfold and treat group C with acupuncture.

5. Blindfold and treat group D with placebo-puncture (lightly poke them with something all over the place).

6. Write a paper comparing rates of recovery, patient reactions and beliefs, previous data on the effectiveness of any medications used, observed effectiveness of medication, observed effectiveness of placebo-puncture, observed effectiveness of acupuncture, etc.

7. Publish paper.

8. Win 10,000 internets.


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Michael Schermer of skeptic magazine

I came across this video the other day. I think the part at the end with the electric healing is probably the closest thing to being effective, plus the relaxation, and the placebo effect from the wise, chinese alternative medicine idea.

 

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dassercha wrote:Can I get

dassercha wrote:

Can I get opinions on Acupuncture?

What's the point?

 


Hambydammit
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One of the really

One of the really interesting things about the placebo effect is that sometimes you don't even have to believe in the treatment for it to work.  Scientists don't exactly know why this is, but it's a repeatable (and previously repeated) observation.  The point, as it relates to acupunture is that if it is just a placebo effect, it's possible that you could disbelieve in it and still benefit.  (It is unlikely, but possible.)

After two years of traveling with a band, loading and unloading all our equipment, and driving constantly, my neck and back were fucked up in really exciting ways.  I eventually found relief from a mix of chiropractic care and deep tissue massage.  In general, I believe that a lot of chiropractic therapy is quack medicine, but I do think that it is beneficial for some conditions, and I do think there are chiropractors who have a very good knowledge of the musculoskeletal system, and do "put things back in place."

Having said that, I'm open to the possibility that it's all quack medicine.  If it is, it's possible that I would still try it again if I was in pain.  It's thirty bucks, and even if it is a placebo effect, relief is relief.

 

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Until this thread I never

Until this thread I never realised chiropractics was considered in any way quack unless it was over-used.  I've seen one before for back issues due to bad posture, just a couple of visits. 

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Quote:Until this thread I

Quote:
Until this thread I never realised chiropractics was considered in any way quack unless it was over-used.  I've seen one before for back issues due to bad posture, just a couple of visits.

It's controversial, anyway.  I know people who swear it's just glorified back cracking that anyone can learn in twenty minutes.  The guy I went to, however, was able to do very specific things.  For instance, I would tell him that my back hurt in such and such a place, near my shoulder blade, and he would work on my hip.  Then, he'd have me rotate my shoulder in such and such a way, and the pain would go away.  When I came in the first time, he told me that I'd carried a big wallet for many years in my left back pocket.  That was particularly impressive because it was true, and I didn't have a big wallet at the time.  I had a money clip in my front pocket.  My pants did not have any imprints on the pockets.

Speaking of controversial practices, I got quite a bit of acupressure while I was getting therapeutic massage.  I found it to be very effective, but then, the claim was that by exerting pressure on specific points on the muscles, the very same muscles would feel better.  Not much of a leap of logic.  Certainly, the guy didn't claim that he could cure allergies by poking me with a needle.  Having said that, he could cure headaches very effectively.  He taught me how to do it, and I've had very good success with it as well, both on myself and other people.

 

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I've got a book on

I've got a book on accupressure.
I've had some limited success with it when I've tried it out, but I've not really taken the time to get really good at it.
The person who wrote my book reckons that the points stimulate some kind of nerves to produce the effect.
There's certainly something to the points themselves as you can feel a pulse on them which increases as you touch them.
I once managed to cure a severe cramp in my calves and found that the points behind my ears were fantastic for relieving the swelling caused by mumps.
Other than that I've not managed to them to work.
I've never managed to cure a headache with them or anything like that.

 

I imagine that just like with everything else you have to great practiced and skilled to use it really effectively.


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Hambydammit wrote: It's

Hambydammit wrote:

 

It's controversial, anyway.  I know people who swear it's just glorified back cracking that anyone can learn in twenty minutes.  The guy I went to, however, was able to do very specific things.  For instance, I would tell him that my back hurt in such and such a place, near my shoulder blade, and he would work on my hip.  Then, he'd have me rotate my shoulder in such and such a way, and the pain would go away.  When I came in the first time, he told me that I'd carried a big wallet for many years in my left back pocket.  That was particularly impressive because it was true, and I didn't have a big wallet at the time.  I had a money clip in my front pocket.  My pants did not have any imprints on the pockets.

Well I'd say its more of a glorified massage  it has been shown to be as helpful for low back pain as any other "conventional" (i cringe at that word there is evidence based medicine and non-evidence based once some gains evidence it becomes part of the toolbox for doctors / physical therapists or whoever in the medical profession to use sorry for the rant) therapy  such as physical therapy. 

 

Here is a academic neurologist discussing it

http://www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=4

http://www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=5

 

 

for acupuncture 

A Neuroscientist Investigates Acupuncture by Robert Drysdale

 


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I think acupuncture falls in

I think acupuncture falls in a grey area. A lot of people claim that it is good for pain relief (friends of mine even had it done to their dog, seemed to work). It might be one of those things that work a bit, even though the explanation is dodgey (if the explanation is wrong, it does not change what is physically happening. Nerves are causing the pain and they are complicated little crappers, so who knows.

With any kind of pain relief, don't forget that pain is a message about damage or potential damage. So if the pain is gone but the cause is not you can easily agrevate the problem if you are not careful. Take care.

My friend was given a herniated disk in his neck by a chiro... he had to have major surgery, but not before going through a couple of months of pain so intense that presciption painkillers weren't enough.

If your bones are really out of alignment it is probably caused by the muscles and tendons attached to them. Forcing joints around can't be good.

I'd rather go to a good physio or get a therapeutic massage.

 

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