Is not I feel very sorry for you atheist, It is I am trully concern and have great love for you

latimerf
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Is not I feel very sorry for you atheist, It is I am trully concern and have great love for you

            By no means I’m here to insult no ones intelligence or to be condescending. I appreciate the Love and Dedication of other fellow theist to reach souls yet have failed to demonstrate such affections in their semantics.

            I have read several threads from other members and it amasses me the great deal of information is out there. My only concern is that some of it is filled with half truths. For example, I have to accept that man has changed the bible many times in order to shape it to the current era and human desires of the time. For that same reason we, Christians, should refrain from using any other bible that doesn’t derive from the Masoretic, Text http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text. No! This text did not fall from the sky nor was found in the form of a golden tablet, yet was inspired by God Himself.

            I know it is hard to grasp the idea; how can an imaginary being inspire someone? The only way to know so is by experiencing it oneself. The bible says to test the things of God. This Great Book has many promises that many take for granted! For example 2Chronicles 14:  If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land” (God) How about Mathew 7:7: “ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?” (God) How about something a little harder to do yet never fails, Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”

            The Lord of hosts says PROVE ME!!!! Many people took the blasphemy challenge; I dare you to take the PROMISES CHALLENGE. Remember that there is a qualifier for each of the promises, and don’t for get: But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.” Matt 6:7.

            Remember these are just few of the promises. I would love to read your testimony any time. If you have any questions concerning GOD. HIT ME UP!! Ill do my best to clear things up.

            Hope to hear soon from you GOD Bless!!!

 

 


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Anyone can make a promise. I

Anyone can make a promise. I will become a theist the moment God/Yaweh/Allah delivers on his supernatural promises.


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Actually latimerf I feel

Actually latimerf I feel sorry for you. OP's like this are basically like bloody chum is to a group of sharks.  As soon as this thread has been examined for a short time then the atheists ( many of whom are former Christians ) will circle in and systematically rip your arguments to shreds.

Have a nice time during your stay here.

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latimerf wrote:By no means

latimerf wrote:
By no means I’m here to insult no ones intelligence

Except your own.

latimerf wrote:
I know it is hard to grasp the idea; how can an imaginary being inspire someone?

 

It's quite an easy concept to grasp, actually.  Receiving inspiration from a muse and worshipping an imaginary being are two completely different things.

 

latimerf wrote:
The only way to know so is by experiencing it oneself. The bible says to test the things of God. This Great Book has many promises that many take for granted! For example 2Chronicles 14:  If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land” (God) How about Mathew 7:7: “ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?” (God) How about something a little harder to do yet never fails, Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”

 

Shame this doesn't work in reality, as shown here.

 

latimerf wrote:
The Lord of hosts says PROVE ME!!!! Many people took the blasphemy challenge; I dare you to take the PROMISES CHALLENGE. Remember that there is a qualifier for each of the promises, and don’t for get: But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.” Matt 6:7.

            Remember these are just few of the promises. I would love to read your testimony any time. If you have any questions concerning GOD. HIT ME UP!! Ill do my best to clear things up.

            Hope to hear soon from you GOD Bless!!!

 

Many of us come from theistic lifestyles.  We believed, we prayed, we asked, we didn't receive.  We looked closer, we found the irrationality of it all.  Come back when you've got something worthwhile to contribute.

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F- for grammar.This is

F- for grammar.

This is basically worthless. And posting another thread just linking here in the same forum is stupid. Basically spamming.

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Are you the same fellow who

Are you the same fellow who had the misfortune to send this gem here?

I feel very sorry for all atheists [YOU RESPOND]

I was wondering when, or if, you would show up again. Bravo.

Quote:

By no means I’m here to insult no ones intelligence or to be condescending.

No, your grammar would preclude you from doing so.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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pauljohntheskeptic
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latimerf

latimerf wrote:

           

             For example, I have to accept that man has changed the bible many times in order to shape it to the current era and human desires of the time. For that same reason we, Christians, should refrain from using any other bible that doesn’t derive from the Masoretic, Text http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text. No! This text did not fall from the sky nor was found in the form of a golden tablet, yet was inspired by God Himself.

I already have 22 versions of the Bible to pick from plus this one which is really the 1917 JPS edition of the Hebrew Bible in English.

If you'd like to use this to base your Christian belief on, consider this verse:

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

You should immediately notice that there is nothing in here about a virgin conceiving, which could be a problem for you in Matthew 1:23 which relies on the bad translation. There are other fun citations in the original Hebrew that discredit your belief. Psalms 74:13-14 is the Jewish version of the Ba'al cycle involving Yamm, Ba'al, Litan and the Leviathan or twisty serpent. Isaiah 27:1 contains more of this ancient legend also found in Babylon as Marduk crushing Tiamat and Kingru. This helps to show Judaism has a similar basis to other Canaanite religions.

 

Then you have in Psalms 86:8, "There is none like unto Thee among the gods, O Lord, and there are no works like Thine."

So if you really want to use this version you may want to consider becoming a Jew, as you are going to destroy some of Christian basis by using it.

 

latimerf wrote:
 

 

            I know it is hard to grasp the idea; how can an imaginary being inspire someone? The only way to know so is by experiencing it oneself.

I personally use XENA Warrior Princess for my imaginary role model.

latimerf wrote:
 

For example 2Chronicles 14:  If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land” (God)

Actually I couldn't find this in my versions of 2 Chronicles 14 in either JPS or KJV, so you have a bad citation. My versions deal with King Asa.

 

As an ex-christian with years of training there is little you can say or specifcally quote from the Bible to sway me. This is true generally for the majority of the atheists on this site. Appealing to your holy books does nothing to further your cause. The Bible is not proof of anything other than Israel and Judah once existed, there were many stories of violence, war, pretty fables, and myths. Some kings probably were real, some were not. You claim the book was inspired by god, I claim its a poor work of Sci-Fi. I haven't even given you 1/10 of a per cent of the contradictions and ridiculous writing.

 

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Malachi 3:10

Lets see if I can translate that into modern English. The true believer gives 10% of thier income so that the prist can eat meat and in return I get blessings but nothing tangible. That is one hell of reason to be an athiest and the priests can get a real job.

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latimerf
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Anyone can make a promise

The only time the Lord's promises are delivered is when we fulfill the qualifier.


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MattShizzle wrote:F- for

MattShizzle wrote:

F- for grammar.

This is basically worthless. And posting another thread just linking here in the same forum is stupid. Basically spamming.

 

I am not the author of the previous thread. I just thought the earlier speaker failed to deliver his/her message in a meaningful way. No, I am not spamming.


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F- for Grammar; Got it!

deludedgod wrote:

Are you the same fellow who had the misfortune to send this gem here?

I feel very sorry for all atheists [YOU RESPOND]

I was wondering when, or if, you would show up again. Bravo.

Quote:

By no means I’m here to insult no ones intelligence or to be condescending.

No, your grammar would preclude you from doing so.

 

Yes my gramar and spelling sucks, English is my second language. I have been working on it for a while now. Im pleased to know that at least I can get my message across. Smiling


latimerf
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Jeffrick wrote:Lets see if I

Jeffrick wrote:
Lets see if I can translate that into modern English. The true believer gives 10% of thier income so that the prist can eat meat and in return I get blessings but nothing tangible. That is one hell of reason to be an athiest and the priests can get a real job.

 

The blessings refered to are to be tangible also. For exmple MONEY! Just test it! Thats why I mentioned it was a hard one. Not to many people are willing to give a 10% of their income, therefore, once given as an offering it defines a true  statement of trust and loyalty to the Lord. The bible mentions many places where blessings have been describe as simple as to have an offspring or a tenfold of the offering.


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latimerf

latimerf wrote:

            By no means I’m here to insult no ones intelligence or to be condescending.

 

So im guessing no one else realises this is a double negative?... which means he is actually here to insult intelligences, and be condescending...

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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Actually latimerf I feel sorry for you. OP's like this are basically like bloody chum is to a group of sharks.  As soon as this thread has been examined for a short time then the atheists ( many of whom are former Christians ) will circle in and systematically rip your arguments to shreds.

Have a nice time during your stay here.

 

Thanks for your encouraging words! really! I know what I have plunged myself into, maybe not! If at least I get to plant one seed; my purpose would be fulfilled


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latimerf wrote:The blessings

latimerf wrote:
The blessings refered to are to be tangible also. For exmple MONEY! Just test it! Thats why I mentioned it was a hard one. Not to many people are willing to give a 10% of their income, therefore, once given as an offering it defines a true  statement of trust and loyalty to the Lord. The bible mentions many places where blessings have been describe as simple as to have an offspring or a tenfold of the offering.
Wow! A tenfold return?

So, if I made $20,000 the first year, I'd tithe 10% ($2,000), returning $20,000.

That would mean the next year I'd have to tithe $4,000. But I'd get back $40,000.

Then $80,000, then $160,000, then $320,000, then $640,000, then $1,280,000, then $2,560,000...

Is that how it works, really? Does this explain televangelists?

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


latimerf
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JillSwift wrote:latimerf

JillSwift wrote:

latimerf wrote:
The blessings refered to are to be tangible also. For exmple MONEY! Just test it! Thats why I mentioned it was a hard one. Not to many people are willing to give a 10% of their income, therefore, once given as an offering it defines a true  statement of trust and loyalty to the Lord. The bible mentions many places where blessings have been describe as simple as to have an offspring or a tenfold of the offering.
Wow! A tenfold return?

So, if I made $20,000 the first year, I'd tithe 10% ($2,000), returning $20,000.

That would mean the next year I'd have to tithe $4,000. But I'd get back $40,000.

Then $80,000, then $160,000, then $320,000, then $640,000, then $1,280,000, then $2,560,000...

Is that how it works, really? Does this explain televangelists?

 

YOU GOT THE IDEA!!! now, is it always going to be money? NO! If not many would be millionaire! remember, blessings!!! About the televangelist... many are just  false prophets and impostors who defile the edification of others... starting with Poppof!


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latimerf wrote:YOU GOT THE

latimerf wrote:
YOU GOT THE IDEA!!! now, is it always going to be money? NO! If not many would be millionaire! remember, blessings!!! About the televangelist... many are just  false prophets and impostors who defile the edification of others... starting with Poppof!
If it's not always money, then I don't "have the idea".

What tangible returns on this supposed investment is there, then, besides money? Who can I contact to verify this? Is there a list of people I can contact who have seen these tenfold returns on their tithing?

and the big question:

How do you explain all those folks who give their tithe and still suffer extreme poverty, strife, or starvation? Is it the "not enough faith" cop-out for them?

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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PaulJohn the Sceptic

 

Regarding to Isaiah 7:14... Stick to the Mesoratic text, KJV clearly says VIRGIN. About levithian, to me is just like Jonahs story. How could he survive that long inside a whale? It just happened, besides I wasn’t there to say didn’t happened I just believe... Maybe the Canaanites saw the same things the Jews did. As for Psalms 86:8, again, stick to the Masoretic text, KJV.I apologize for II Chronicles 14; the correct verse is II Chronicles 7:14. The only reason I appeal to my "Holy Book" not books, is because if I cant show where I stand on then I wouldn’t have a base for an argument (idea). You do recognize that some things in the bible can be linked to history, the main reason I believe every word of it. If there were so many places and events that took place at least one has to be confirmed by the brilliant minds that record our history. The case is that there are multiple of them.  

 


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Thingi

Just because christians may refuse to live like the rest of the world doesn't mean they are not in the world. Bad things do happen to christians. As for that family, it is sad they lost a daughter due their neglect. There are established laws we all have to follow. for example, my son was on the virge of death at two and half years old! Does he deserve it? Was I a bad christian? All I know is a prayed and praised God for the moments He gave me with my son. All the Dr. though he was going to die, but he didn't. A supernatural recovery took place in less than five days. There were many people praying for him, maybe in the hundred. All I know is my prayers were answered.
Smiling


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JillSwift wrote:latimerf

JillSwift wrote:

latimerf wrote:
YOU GOT THE IDEA!!! now, is it always going to be money? NO! If not many would be millionaire! remember, blessings!!! About the televangelist... many are just  false prophets and impostors who defile the edification of others... starting with Poppof!
If it's not always money, then I don't "have the idea".

What tangible returns on this supposed investment is there, then, besides money? Who can I contact to verify this? Is there a list of people I can contact who have seen these tenfold returns on their tithing?

and the big question:

How do you explain all those folks who give their tithe and still suffer extreme poverty, strife, or starvation? Is it the "not enough faith" cop-out for them?

 

Tangible, how about a baby from a couple who can't conceive. Maeby being delivered from an addiction. As for Myself Im not focused in the tangible things, people tend to grow greedy and cold as they get more and more. Neither I look at it as if it was a 401k or gambling. I have to say since I started tithing, my financial dificulties staterd to disappear until I became debt free. Who can you cantac? Myself, a local church... go in there and ask someone who faithfully tithe (not everyone does).

About the poor... I cant measure their faith nor I can tell if the truthfully tithe, or can we? Also I have to remember Matthew 5:23

 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

5:24  Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.


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I wondered what the eleventh

I wondered what the eleventh century sounded like.

 


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The PROMISSES CHALLENGE

Tell us about your experiences while standing on the promises talked on "Is not I feel very sorry for you atheist, It is I am trully concern and have great love for you" Forum.

    Remember that all things are earned with patience and honest dedication!

{MOD EDIT: It didn't need its own thread.}


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latimerf wrote:

latimerf wrote:

 

    Remember that all things are earned with patience and honest dedication!


 

or... you know... theivery, extortion, murder, and violence

 

edit; oh! and looting! i forgot looting!

edit2; and rape... damn im forgetful today >.<

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latimerf wrote:The only time

latimerf wrote:

The only time the Lord's promises are delivered is when we fulfill the qualifier.

Many of us fulfilled the qualifiers many times over without answer.

This is where you or another theist comes in with "God answers all prayers with Yes, No, or Wait" and I bring up the Milk Jug video on www.godisimaginary.com and other places

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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latimerf wrote: Regarding

latimerf wrote:

 

Regarding to Isaiah 7:14... Stick to the Mesoratic text, KJV clearly says VIRGIN. About levithian, to me is just like Jonahs story. How could he survive that long inside a whale? It just happened, besides I wasn’t there to say didn’t happened I just believe... Maybe the Canaanites saw the same things the Jews did. As for Psalms 86:8, again, stick to the Masoretic text, KJV.I apologize for II Chronicles 14; the correct verse is II Chronicles 7:14. The only reason I appeal to my "Holy Book" not books, is because if I cant show where I stand on then I wouldn’t have a base for an argument (idea). You do recognize that some things in the bible can be linked to history, the main reason I believe every word of it. If there were so many places and events that took place at least one has to be confirmed by the brilliant minds that record our history. The case is that there are multiple of them.  

 

It appears you think the reworked KJV is the Masoretic text. See your own Wikipedia reference. It refers to the Hebrew text, which is what I gave you. See this link for it http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0.htm

The point of the Cannanites seeing the same thing was it was based in their mythology as well as Babylonian.

Since you believe every word in your holy book, look forward to your eyes being opened. I will get back to you later for a discussion on the murky history contained in your book. I have to work occassionally so I'll get back to you

 

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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jcgadfly wrote:latimerf

jcgadfly wrote:

latimerf wrote:

The only time the Lord's promises are delivered is when we fulfill the qualifier.

Many of us fulfilled the qualifiers many times over without answer.

This is where you or another theist comes in with "God answers all prayers with Yes, No, or Wait" and I bring up the Milk Jug video on www.godisimaginary.com and other places

Mark 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

One of the qualifiers is faith. I have to say that there are many prayers I prayed that were not made with full faith, others Im glad they were not answered. As for the milk jug, the statistics were made without someone actually praying? Did the person honestly believed it was going to happen, the same way the woman in Mark did? Thats something we dont know and is more of a gut check instead of saying I prayed for the entire world to be rid of cancer. If that was the case, what if someone was praying to the milk jug at the same time; that just defeats the puropose, now you just created a Milk Jug believer!

    Like I said earlier, just because I refuse to be like the world as much as I humanly can, doesnt mean Im not in it! World things will still happen to me. As a matter of fact worldly things tend to happen more during Mondays, day after a magnificent day of praise and worship. Worldly things are the tools our enemy utilizes in order to disturb and destroy. Looki at Job, now that is true faith.

 

    Now when it is time to hunt for a church one should lok for the one that is prayer filled and allows the Holy Spirit to inspire and move within

 


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I cant deny there has been

I cant deny there has been much violence so called "in the name of the Lord" much of it has been in reality for reasons other than that. In fact the bible does saya that in the later days people would grow more violent and cold hearted (paraphrased).


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Since you believe every word

Since you believe every word in your Holy book, the KJV bible let's start from there.

latimerf wrote:

 The only reason I appeal to my "Holy Book" not books, is because if I cant show where I stand on then I wouldn’t have a base for an argument (idea). You do recognize that some things in the bible can be linked to history, the main reason I believe every word of it. If there were so many places and events that took place at least one has to be confirmed by the brilliant minds that record our history. The case is that there are multiple of them.  

 

My favorite book to discredit isn't Genesis, it's Daniel. I call it Sci-Fi Daniel. Jesus tells us he has read it and knows it in his reference in Mark 13 and the other gospels where the destruction of the 2nd temple is mentioned. This is from Daniel 9. Daniel is said to be a prisoner in Babylon. He describes his observations and the history you claim is all true.

He claims to have been taken prisoner in the 3rd year of King Jehoiakim, which would have been in 605 BCE; Daniel 1:1.Even your Holy Bible disagrees on that, as no captives are mentioned in 2 Kings under King Jehoiakim, only his rebellion and death.  2 Kings 24:8-17 details the attack by Nebuchadnezzar in 597 BCE when Daniel was likely taken.  This is  under King Jehoiachin as indicated in 2 Kings. Nebuchadnezzar or correctly Nebuchadrezzar attached Judah in 597 BCE which is corroborated by Babylonian history. Daniel must have been held prisoner for at least the next 59 years as he reports on the invasion by the Persians that occurred in 538 BCE, also documented historically. You may not consider this much of an error, but it is one.

A far worse error is in Daniel 5:31 where he attributes Babylon's conquest to Darius the Mede. He claims he killed King Belshazzar of Babylon. This is all false. Babylon was conquered by Cyrus II of Persia not Darius, clearly documented in history. Belshazzar or correctly Bel-shar-usur was not king but was the prince. The actual king was Nabondius who isn't even mentioned. I can give you a list of dozens of books, or you can go to one of these links

http://www.livius.org/ct-cz/cyrus_I/babylon01.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonia

This indicates the story told by Daniel is not true, it has misrepresentations and factual errors. Jesus quotes Daniel throughout his teaching according to the Gospels. Revelation uses Daniel as part of its basis. This is all you need to know, your book is based on factual errors. What part is real, what part is ficition?

Your claim was "I believe every word of it. "

 Your claim is discredited! I have a whole lot more, but I shouldn't need it as every word is clearly not true.

 

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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latimerf1 wrote:jcgadfly

latimerf1 wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

latimerf wrote:

The only time the Lord's promises are delivered is when we fulfill the qualifier.

Many of us fulfilled the qualifiers many times over without answer.

This is where you or another theist comes in with "God answers all prayers with Yes, No, or Wait" and I bring up the Milk Jug video on www.godisimaginary.com and other places

Mark 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

One of the qualifiers is faith. I have to say that there are many prayers I prayed that were not made with full faith, others Im glad they were not answered. As for the milk jug, the statistics were made without someone actually praying? Did the person honestly believed it was going to happen, the same way the woman in Mark did? Thats something we dont know and is more of a gut check instead of saying I prayed for the entire world to be rid of cancer. If that was the case, what if someone was praying to the milk jug at the same time; that just defeats the puropose, now you just created a Milk Jug believer!

    Like I said earlier, just because I refuse to be like the world as much as I humanly can, doesnt mean Im not in it! World things will still happen to me. As a matter of fact worldly things tend to happen more during Mondays, day after a magnificent day of praise and worship. Worldly things are the tools our enemy utilizes in order to disturb and destroy. Looki at Job, now that is true faith.

 

    Now when it is time to hunt for a church one should lok for the one that is prayer filled and allows the Holy Spirit to inspire and move within

 

The point of the milk jug is that no matter what happens after you pray, God never loses.

Why are you making sock puppets like you work for Nike?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

latimerf wrote:

 

Regarding to Isaiah 7:14... Stick to the Mesoratic text, KJV clearly says VIRGIN. About levithian, to me is just like Jonahs story. How could he survive that long inside a whale? It just happened, besides I wasn’t there to say didn’t happened I just believe... Maybe the Canaanites saw the same things the Jews did. As for Psalms 86:8, again, stick to the Masoretic text, KJV.I apologize for II Chronicles 14; the correct verse is II Chronicles 7:14. The only reason I appeal to my "Holy Book" not books, is because if I cant show where I stand on then I wouldn’t have a base for an argument (idea). You do recognize that some things in the bible can be linked to history, the main reason I believe every word of it. If there were so many places and events that took place at least one has to be confirmed by the brilliant minds that record our history. The case is that there are multiple of them.  

 

It appears you think the reworked KJV is the Masoretic text. See your own Wikipedia reference. It refers to the Hebrew text, which is what I gave you. See this link for it http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0.htm

The point of the Cannanites seeing the same thing was it was based in their mythology as well as Babylonian.

Since you believe every word in your holy book, look forward to your eyes being opened. I will get back to you later for a discussion on the murky history contained in your book. I have to work occassionally so I'll get back to you

 

 

Why would the Jews want to translate a text in 1917 when the masoretic was alredy translated in 1611? Is it to in change what says in Isaiah 7:14 to a rather ambigous manner in order to refuse virgin birth? why would there be an account 1-3 century BC in the greek septuagint text where it says "virgin"?

About the mythology... what I believe is myth to others; just like the whale and levithian


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pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Since you believe every word in your Holy book, the KJV bible let's start from there.

latimerf wrote:

 The only reason I appeal to my "Holy Book" not books, is because if I cant show where I stand on then I wouldn’t have a base for an argument (idea). You do recognize that some things in the bible can be linked to history, the main reason I believe every word of it. If there were so many places and events that took place at least one has to be confirmed by the brilliant minds that record our history. The case is that there are multiple of them.  

 

My favorite book to discredit isn't Genesis, it's Daniel. I call it Sci-Fi Daniel. Jesus tells us he has read it and knows it in his reference in Mark 13 and the other gospels where the destruction of the 2nd temple is mentioned. This is from Daniel 9. Daniel is said to be a prisoner in Babylon. He describes his observations and the history you claim is all true.

He claims to have been taken prisoner in the 3rd year of King Jehoiakim, which would have been in 605 BCE; Daniel 1:1.Even your Holy Bible disagrees on that, as no captives are mentioned in 2 Kings under King Jehoiakim, only his rebellion and death.  2 Kings 24:8-17 details the attack by Nebuchadnezzar in 597 BCE when Daniel was likely taken.  This is  under King Jehoiachin as indicated in 2 Kings. Nebuchadnezzar or correctly Nebuchadrezzar attached Judah in 597 BCE which is corroborated by Babylonian history. Daniel must have been held prisoner for at least the next 59 years as he reports on the invasion by the Persians that occurred in 538 BCE, also documented historically. You may not consider this much of an error, but it is one.

A far worse error is in Daniel 5:31 where he attributes Babylon's conquest to Darius the Mede. He claims he killed King Belshazzar of Babylon. This is all false. Babylon was conquered by Cyrus II of Persia not Darius, clearly documented in history. Belshazzar or correctly Bel-shar-usur was not king but was the prince. The actual king was Nabondius who isn't even mentioned. I can give you a list of dozens of books, or you can go to one of these links

http://www.livius.org/ct-cz/cyrus_I/babylon01.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonia

This indicates the story told by Daniel is not true, it has misrepresentations and factual errors. Jesus quotes Daniel throughout his teaching according to the Gospels. Revelation uses Daniel as part of its basis. This is all you need to know, your book is based on factual errors. What part is real, what part is ficition?

Your claim was "I believe every word of it. "

 Your claim is discredited! I have a whole lot more, but I shouldn't need it as every word is clearly not true.

 

 

 

Daniel 1:1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it.

be·siegeplay_w("B0208700") (b-sj)

tr.v. be·sieged, be·sieg·ing, be·sieg·es 1. To surround with hostile forces.2. To crowd around; hem in.3. To harass or importune, as with requests: Reporters besieged the winner for interviews.4. To cause to feel distressed or worried: She was besieged by problems.  The appellation "Mede" (Heb. MADAI) may have been used as an ethnic term to apply to Persians as well, who were of the same race. Unlike Gubaru or Astyages, Cyrus the Great of Persia was the king who took over the Babylonian Empire. Cyrus was also married to a Mede, and himself had Medean blood. Darius is just another name for Cyrus the Great, who captured Babylon on October 15th, 539 BCE. 

 


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latimerf1 wrote:Why would

latimerf1 wrote:

Why would the Jews want to translate a text in 1917 when the masoretic was alredy translated in 1611? Is it to in change what says in Isaiah 7:14 to a rather ambigous manner in order to refuse virgin birth? why would there be an account 1-3 century BC in the greek septuagint text where it says "virgin"?

See: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/jps1917.htm

As to why they did it in 1917.

King James of England was clearly not a Jew, the text he had authorized in 1611 was for his heretic Church of England. As to your other point. The Greek Septuagint was originally translated from Hebrew in the 1st to 3rd centuries BCE. The English version used  poor copies of manuscripts in producing what you call the  KJV Bible. See p209 "Misquoting Jesus", By Bart D Ehrman. Do you have a copy of a 1st century Greek text that you have referenced? As far as I know none exist! If you have one its worth a fortune.  If you are claiming the translation of the bad copies into English of KJV is a solid basis see above referenced book.

The Jewish scholars of the 1st century only used the Hebrew text, not the Greek Septuagint, which they deemed to be inaccurate.

See, "The Birth of Christianity, Reality & Myth" by Joel Carmichael; "The Mythmaker" by Hyam Maccoby; "The 1st Urban Christians" by Wayne A Meeks.

 

latimerf1 wrote:

About the mythology... what I believe is myth to others; just like the whale and levithian

You certainly got that right, what you believe is misconstrued reality or mythical.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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latimerf wrote: Daniel 1:1

latimerf wrote:

 

Daniel 1:1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it.

As you completely ignored, Jehoiakim died according to 2 Kings 24:6. Daniel 1:1 says as above. And 2 Chronicles 36:5-6 says he was taken to Babylon in fetters.

Multiple Choice Guess

1)Died as in 2 Kings 24:6

2)Taken away in fetters 2 Chronicles 36:5-6

3)Attacked by Nebuchadrezzar per Daniel 1:1

4)Who really knows

 

latimerf wrote:

be·siegeplay_w("B0208700") (b-sj)

tr.v. be·sieged, be·sieg·ing, be·sieg·es 1. To surround with hostile forces. 2. To crowd around; hem in. 3. To harass or importune, as with requests: Reporters besieged the winner for interviews. 4. To cause to feel distressed or worried: She was besieged by problems.     The appellation "Mede" (Heb. MADAI) may have been used as an ethnic term to apply to Persians as well, who were of the same race. Unlike Gubaru or Astyages, Cyrus the Great of Persia was the king who took over the Babylonian Empire. Cyrus was also married to a Mede, and himself had Medean blood.
I realize that Cyrus was a Meade. 
latimerf wrote:
  Darius is just another name for Cyrus the Great, who captured Babylon on October 15th, 539 BCE.  

 

Saying it is so sure doesn't make it so. Your reference doesn't support your statement.

See "Ancient Iraq" by George Roux for a complete history of the time in great detail.

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

latimerf1 wrote:

Why would the Jews want to translate a text in 1917 when the masoretic was alredy translated in 1611? Is it to in change what says in Isaiah 7:14 to a rather ambigous manner in order to refuse virgin birth? why would there be an account 1-3 century BC in the greek septuagint text where it says "virgin"?

See: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/jps1917.htm

As to why they did it in 1917.

King James of England was clearly not a Jew, the text he had authorized in 1611 was for his heretic Church of England. As to your other point. The Greek Septuagint was originally translated from Hebrew in the 1st to 3rd centuries BCE. The English version used  poor copies of manuscripts in producing what you call the  KJV Bible. See p209 "Misquoting Jesus", By Bart D Ehrman. Do you have a copy of a 1st century Greek text that you have referenced? As far as I know none exist! If you have one its worth a fortune.  If you are claiming the translation of the bad copies into English of KJV is a solid basis see above referenced book.

The Jewish scholars of the 1st century only used the Hebrew text, not the Greek Septuagint, which they deemed to be inaccurate.

See, "The Birth of Christianity, Reality & Myth" by Joel Carmichael; "The Mythmaker" by Hyam Maccoby; "The 1st Urban Christians" by Wayne A Meeks.

 

latimerf1 wrote:

About the mythology... what I believe is myth to others; just like the whale and levithian

You certainly got that right, what you believe is misconstrued reality or mythical.

 

Lets talk about the author... "both content and method have transferred over substantially, particularly Ehrman's major weaknesses, which are 1) a lack of familiarity with broader defining contexts (eg, Jewish Wisdom theology, which, for example, solves the alleged "problem" he sees in Heb. 1:3 and resolves it in favor of the "manifests" reading -- 56) that would weight down heavily in terms of solving alleged problems he "discovers"; 2) an inability to walk more than 20 steps without repeatedly depressing a panic button."  http://www.tektonics.org/books/ehrqurvw.html#Review


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We don't doubt that people

We don't doubt that people who claim to believe in a deity (be it your label, or another label) that these people, in their minds, believe that they want good for us.

What they fail to consider is that what they think is the solution, is merely a work of fiction invented by humans. We (atheists) many have had the same beliefs at one point in our lives. We gave up that position for one simple reason, lack of evidence.

It never occurs to the theist that they, not the atheist, hold a false position. We are the ones who can help you, not the other way around. We can show you the error in your logic you use to justify the belief in the fictional deity you claim to be real. We can show you that superstition is merely a placebo and is not reality.

We are the ones who can help you. Deities help humanity as effectively as Santa helps children. When you understand why you reject Thor making lighting, you will understand why we reject your deity claim as well.

We do understand your "goodwill" intent. We simply don't assign doing good to a magic lawgiver in the sky. We see humanity as it's own best resource in a great age of technology and science to improve the human condition. Yet the species has not progressed beyond the crutch of the teddy bear and security blanket when faced with shadows.

There is lots about the universe we as a species don't know. Instead of using ancient superstition and myth to search for answers, use the modern tools of study and falsification to find them.

There is no need to pretend that a magical being in the sky or a man with a pitchfork has the ability to manipulate your brain or your body in some grand "Luke Skywaker vs Darth Vader" story.

Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. People without your label can do good and people who claim your label can do bad.

If you expect to have a long stay here, do not preach. We get preaching types all the time and they don't last. It is not that they get booted, unless it is just spam. But they set themselves up for disappointment by expecting no challenge and confuse criticism with insult and leave because it is a culture shock to them that someone doesn't hold the same position they do.

No one is going to hate you because you are not an atheist. No one is going to BBQ your kittens or drink your blood. We simply want you to back up your claims. If you don't we simply will not buy the claim(s) you put forth.

Treat each and every atheist here, or anywhere, as an individual, just as you don't treat every Christian like Pat Robertson or Jessie Jackson. We are all individuals and have different approaches and comfort levels to debate.

No one here is saying you should leave. But do not set yourself up for disappointment by expecting this to be a hug fest where cookies and cream are served every day.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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    I truly respect your point opinion, and I apologize if I have come across in a hostile manner or disrespectfull manner. I did stray away from my main focus; motivate others to take the challenge. By the way it looks, we are always going to be at a stalemate; no of us was there to witness it.

    The only thing I rely on is personal experience, and I just wanted to share that with you all; believer or not. I still look forward to the comments of individuals who desire to try it. Until then I remain silent, until someone has a question seeking understanding rather than to discredit or mock my beliefs.


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virtual crap

Take 2 of these and don't call me in the morning...


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Hey DG...stick to evolution and I'll take care of the grammar...


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pauljohntheskeptic

 

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

latimerf1 wrote:

Why would the Jews want to translate a text in 1917 when the masoretic was alredy translated in 1611? Is it to in change what says in Isaiah 7:14 to a rather ambigous manner in order to refuse virgin birth? why would there be an account 1-3 century BC in the greek septuagint text where it says "virgin"?

See: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/jps1917.htm

As to why they did it in 1917.

King James of England was clearly not a Jew, the text he had authorized in 1611 was for his heretic Church of England. As to your other point. The Greek Septuagint was originally translated from Hebrew in the 1st to 3rd centuries BCE. The English version used  poor copies of manuscripts in producing what you call the  KJV Bible. See p209 "Misquoting Jesus", By Bart D Ehrman. Do you have a copy of a 1st century Greek text that you have referenced? As far as I know none exist! If you have one its worth a fortune.  If you are claiming the translation of the bad copies into English of KJV is a solid basis see above referenced book.

 

 

 

latimerf wrote:

Lets talk about the author... "both content and method have transferred over substantially, particularly Ehrman's major weaknesses, which are 1) a lack of familiarity with broader defining contexts (eg, Jewish Wisdom theology, which, for example, solves the alleged "problem" he sees in Heb. 1:3 and resolves it in favor of the "manifests" reading -- 56) that would weight down heavily in terms of solving alleged problems he "discovers"; 2) an inability to walk more than 20 steps without repeatedly depressing a panic button."  http://www.tektonics.org/books/ehrqurvw.html#Review

Interesting, attack the reliability of the referenced author, don't address the subject matter. So are you J.P. Holding? If not, have you even read this book? If you have, your comments are appropriate not a book reviewer for Bible.org.  If not how is it that you rely on the word of another with no comments of your own? Sorry, I forgot you were a believer and do that as standard practice.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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latimerf wrote:    I

latimerf wrote:

    I truly respect your point opinion, and I apologize if I have come across in a hostile manner or disrespectfull manner. I did stray away from my main focus; motivate others to take the challenge. By the way it looks, we are always going to be at a stalemate; no of us was there to witness it.

    The only thing I rely on is personal experience, and I just wanted to share that with you all; believer or not. I still look forward to the comments of individuals who desire to try it. Until then I remain silent, until someone has a question seeking understanding rather than to discredit or mock my beliefs.

What makes you think I was accusing you of "disrespecting me"? I never said that. I said treat us as individuals, just like I don't treat all Christians the same.

You are going to set yourself up for dissapointment here confusing criticism with mocking. No one is "mocking" YOU.

Let me give you an example, hopefully you will understand.

Person X claims, " I know that Tarot cards work because of my personal experiance".

Person Y claims, "I know that I will get 72 virgins in my afterlife because of my personal experiance|"

Person Z claims, " I know that if I rub the belly of Buddha I will have good fortune, because of my personal experiance".

 

Putting religion aside after reading this, I am trying to show YOU that there is a differance between a claim and the person making the claim.

I am a Washington Redskin fan.

If, at this point in their history I claim,  "The Redskins are the best team in the NFL"

And another fan, "That is absurd, they suck. They have only made 2 playoff twice in the past 15 years. They have no offensive line. They have no depth or balanced game. The owner tries to buy players instead of developing them. He wont let the GM or coaches do their job without sticking his nose on the field."

Is that person addressing me? Or are they looking at the current performance of the Redskins and comparing it to my false claim that the Redskins are the best|? They would not be attacking me personally, they would be pointing out something obvious.

(END)

If you are going to take critisism and blasphemy personally, you will not learn anything here and you will only frustrate yourself. If you truely want to learn from us, DO NOT confuse YOU the person, with the seperate issue of the claims you make. None of us here have personally met you, we dont know you. But we are going to give you our unsensored view of the claims you make. DO NOT TAKE THAT PERSONALLY BECAUSE IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU!

ANOTHER EXAMPLE:

Person X, "Allah picks the sex of the baby"

Atheist, "No, that is absurd. We know through genetics that the XY chromosome is what determines the sex of the baby".

(END)

Do you get it? You have nothing to be afraid of from us and there is a lot you can learn if you wipe your slate clean and understand that although some here can be tough on you, it is because we want YOU to think without all those old stories.

You did not disrespect me. You simply did not understand that I was merely giving you survival advice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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latimerf wrote:JillSwift

latimerf wrote:

JillSwift wrote:

So, if I made $20,000 the first year, I'd tithe 10% ($2,000), returning $20,000.

That would mean the next year I'd have to tithe $4,000. But I'd get back $40,000.

Then $80,000, then $160,000, then $320,000, then $640,000, then $1,280,000, then $2,560,000...

Is that how it works, really? Does this explain televangelists?

 YOU GOT THE IDEA!!! now, is it always going to be money? NO! If not many would be millionaire! remember, blessings!!! About the televangelist... many are just  false prophets and impostors who defile the edification of others... starting with Poppof!

Let's say you make $20k a year. You tithe $2k, you get back $20k, including:

- prolonged availability of the Lord, this way your prayers are more likely to be answered : $5000

- random miracles happening to you and your family : $6000

- renovation of the local church, and cost of a small present to silence the alter-boy about yesterday evening, so you can continue attending your pastor in the church rather than in the jail : $8999

- charity, funding educational projects so your kids will all be rocket scientists : $1

It is never going to be money. Thus, you will go broke by the fourth year, and will have to borrow $12k to survive the fifth year without spending a single dime.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 


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latimerf2 wrote:I cant deny

latimerf2 wrote:

I cant deny there has been much violence so called "in the name of the Lord" much of it has been in reality for reasons other than that. In fact the bible does saya that in the later days people would grow more violent and cold hearted (paraphrased).

saya that in the later days people would grow more violent and cold hearted (paraphrased).

Why do you insist on a magical reason for violence|? War and crime HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF HUMANITY.

Did it ever occur to you that it is not a matter of a bearded man in the sky vs a man downstairs with a pitchfork? Maybe it is just a matter of statistics?

Maybe things occur because of individual OR group dynamics, upbringing, class, culture, politics and opportunity. Maybe wars happen because each side refuses to see the other as human? Why do you insist on putting a needless fictional puppiteer into the mix?

"If God did it" then explain to me where the buck should stop, if not at the boss himself?

The fact is WE, not some fictional tyrant, have the ability to reduce and minimize harm to the species. WE as a species can do better. But because the species is still widely stuck on club mentality, we as a species may cause our own demise because we as a hole are still stuck in a tribalistic past.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37