Is it normal for religion to affect me this much?

Medievalguy
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Is it normal for religion to affect me this much?

I'm starting to think there might be something wrong with me, and I can't explain why. Whenever I see/hear ANYTHING about religion my blood starts to boil. It just thoroughly pisses me off. I just can't stand anything that gives these ridiculous superstitions credit. I view religion as an absolutely absurd mental disorder and would gleefully see it eradicated from the face of the earth. It's pure disdain. I go around with angry buttons on my backpack and signs on my car. I leave pamphlets questioning religion here and there when I go out. I left one on the table of Cold Stone Creamery last night when I drove my friend out to get ice cream. When I saw a special shelf in walmart with bibles, I took the time to carefully flip each and every one over. I discreetly place copies of "The god Delusion" in the "religious inspiration" section of Barnes & Nobles. I threw pamphlets at catholic abortion protesters over spring break, and I get such an adrenaline rush from doing all of this! Is something wrong with me? The kicker is I wasn't brought up in a really religious home! So it's not like I'm rebelling against my family. I was hardcore religious once, of my own screwed up making, but nothing really horrible happened to me in church. I never had any bad experiences in christianity, nothing that would easily explain why I hate religion so much now. I'm even planning on leaving the US and giving up my citizenship because of religion! I can't fucking stand this place! Religion is EVERYWHERE in this fucked up country. On the money, in the pledge, I can't drive anywhere without seeing at least ONE "god bless america" sticker, or some fucking xtian fish on the back of somebody's car. Science and reason are under full scale attack here. ID assholes are pushing hard to get their agenda into the class room, stem cell research that could alleviate the pain of thousands is being blocked, conservatives are trying push a first century chauvinistic world view on woman all over by denying them the right to control when they have children, the list goes on and on, I can't stand it anymore. Is something wrong with me?


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That depends on what you

That depends on what you mean by 'normal'.

If you mean 'normal' as in is this an expected emotional reaction by someone who has come to understand that religion is a heaping, steaming pile of bullshit that is a major factor in human ignorance, hate, prejudice and unnecessary fear then yes, it is. More so among those recently coming to understand it than those who have known for a while as the intensity of the feeling subsides a little as it becomes less personal. Never really goes away.

If you mean 'normal' as in almost everyone does it, then no, but we're working on it. =^_^=

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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Quote:I'm starting to think

Quote:

I'm starting to think there might be something wrong with me, and I can't explain why. Whenever I see/hear ANYTHING about religion my blood starts to boil. It just thoroughly pisses me off. I just can't stand anything that gives these ridiculous superstitions credit. I view religion as an absolutely absurd mental disorder and would gleefully see it eradicated from the face of the earth.

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with you. This is a perfectly normal opinion to have, and I am of exactly and precisely the same opinion. Although I do not hold to Marxist economics, I take a highly Marxist view of religion. It, as oft-quoted, ist das Opium des volkes. In Das Kapital, Marx outlines several principle historiographical arguments to support this thesis. It is an opiate specifically because it's designed in order to suppress discontent caused by the ruling class, among the Volk (often mistranslated as 'masses' ). The fear of hell and the promise of heaven are good prophylactics for the soft-minded, and the concept of divine right is useful for the sustaining of power when those under subjugation are living in despair. It provides a false reality and is a form of escapism. It hence serves multiple purposes. One is to supress revolt by several means, such as providing a channelling of the suffering caused by the policys of said ruling class into a false reality. Another is to ensure that the upper echelons are respected because of divine right. It is no coincidence that a wave of secularization rolled through the civilized world from the 19th century onward, for it corresponded with both the advent of empirical science that largely overturned mythology, and just as importantly, a massive rise in living standards.

History is littered with examples where mythology was employed to sustain a civilization which was collapsing from outright revolt, until, of course, it could no longer be hidden that the whole thing was a hoax. The fall of Mayan civilization, who were untouched by the conquistadors, is an example. Their destruction, largely caused by the highly irresponsible agriculture practice of slash and burn irrigation, caused widespread famine and the fall of Tikal. The ziggurats that remain there are visible, and in popular culture we have an image of Mayan civilization as being one of temples hidden among jungles, although there were no jungles when their empire stood. Another example is Easter Island. When the Dutch arrived in the early 18th century, they could be forgiven for thinking that Rapa Nui's hills were so barren they were sand dunes. Yet Easter Island, with no trees, no soil, apparently no natural resources whatsoever, had almost 1000 famous stone Maoi statues, some of which were 30 feet tall, carved across the island. The island had previously been host to 10,000, which is a lot, and previously, had extremely fertile volcanic soil and the finest quarries in the Pacific. The islanders had developed a statue cult which completely destroyed the island. For they cut down trees and shaped rocks from the quarries to haul Maoi into place. The rate of Maoi building became so feverish that the islanders eventually chopped down all the trees, and the soil was washed away. By the time the catastrophe of the statue cult was through the Easter Island, there was nothing left on the island but the statues. A third example is tsarist Russia, where the protectorates of the vast empire of Russia, Alexander the II, later his son, Alex III, and the last tsar, Nicholas II, all commissioned, as part of the process of Russification, a sort of cultural ironing process, had commissioned the Orthodox Church as an arm of the state, and very specifically, an arm of the state that supressed revolt. The Lateran pacts in Italy, which created the Vatican, also ensured that the Catholic church would promote the mouthpiece of fascism as long as the fascists did the same for the Catholics. The Concordat was a virtually identical agreement with the Nazi party. Marx may not have been alive to see some of the aforementioned examples, but his predictions hold. Humans are predictable.

Indeed, such an approach predicts many of the contempt and ridicule deserving desperate ploys employed today. Any argument for religion which begins with the suspension of one's critical faculties by virtue of any assertion that religious propositions ought to be protected from such discourse by which we evaluate other, methodologically valid ideas, such as arguing that "people need religion" or that it does not matter if it is false because it acts as a social cohesion force (the "noble lie argument&quotEye-wink or any variant on that theme is the epistemological equivalent of grovelling at your opponent's feet. It's so pathetic and deserving of contempt, so weak and mendacious, so amusingly desperate, and so terribly ironic. After all, we are discussing a belief system that for centuries ruled the world. And now...they are reduced to arguing for their continued existence by what virtue? That they are necessary? For the derivation of ethical injunctions? That they give people hope? Anything but methodological coherency and reasonable predictions? As I said before, one should relish when their opponent makes such arguments, because it demonstrates what religion has been reduced to, from an epistemological and methodological standpoint: licking the mud off our shoes. Now that it is down in this fashion, the best thing to do, in my opinion, is to kick it repeatedly until it eventually dies, rather like you would crush a filthy little insect or step on an ant without noticing.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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i have similar feelings to

i have similar feelings to the OP myself...

religion is downright dangerous and it makes me want to vomit to see that so many people believe this crap and totally fuck over everyone else's survival for their delusion.

i'm sure it's probably worse for you - living close to liberty u. - but one thing that helps return some sanity to my life is hanging out with other atheists... be it for a speaker, social event, or just on-line.  i'm not trying to discourage you from leaving the country if that's what you decide but just keep in mind that irrational thought does seem to be everywhere to some degree.


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Have any of you seen the

Have any of you seen the mist?

 

It has a wonderful depiction of just how dangerous, one religious fanatic can be...


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It seems like you are really

It seems like you are really bothered by theism. The depth of your personal hostility toward theism may be a little irrational. I think I totter on the edge of rationality concerning hostility toward theism as well. I'm also very irrational when I drive in traffic and I've recently begun to question my rationality as it pertains to my degree of patriotism.

I think it's good that you are talking with others about how you feel toward theism. As far as the little acts of theistic disobedience, I'm glad that I'm not the only one that does little things here and there to piss off the religious right. I carry a Sharpie with me at all times so that I can line out the "god" on currency. I'd just caution you to carefully consider your acts to ensure you don't run afoul of the law. I'm not willing to go to jail over theism.

I know you're not committed to leaving the country yet. I think it would be a shame to lose you to theism. I think it's important that we, Atheists, are finally finding our voice and speaking out. That we are finally starting to work in the light of day toward a future that would be a less painful, violent and oppressive without theism. We need you to stay and work for the future. I don't want to surrender America to the theists.

Respectfully,
Lenny

"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush


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I have seen the mist, and

I have seen the mist, and the part when he pumps that bitch with lead is my favorite. As for leaving the country, it's not just for religious reasons, although thats a major part. There is no medieval archeology in the states. Sticking out tongue But seriously, a country where a politician's sex life is more important than if they govern well is not where I want to live.


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Medievalguy wrote:I'm

Medievalguy wrote:

I'm starting to think there might be something wrong with me, and I can't explain why. Whenever I see/hear ANYTHING about religion my blood starts to boil. It just thoroughly pisses me off. I just can't stand anything that gives these ridiculous superstitions credit. I view religion as an absolutely absurd mental disorder and would gleefully see it eradicated from the face of the earth. It's pure disdain.

I pretty much feel the same way.  I live in Texas, where there is a church on every street corner.  Every day at the company cafeteria, I see people bowing their heads to pray.  It just irks the shit out of me.  But then I have to take a step back and tell myself to lighten up.  Why let the idiots raise my already high blood pressure?

Medievalguy wrote:
I go around with angry buttons on my backpack and signs on my car. I leave pamphlets questioning religion here and there when I go out. I left one on the table of Cold Stone Creamery last night when I drove my friend out to get ice cream. When I saw a special shelf in walmart with bibles, I took the time to carefully flip each and every one over. I discreetly place copies of "The god Delusion" in the "religious inspiration" section of Barnes & Nobles. I threw pamphlets at catholic abortion protesters over spring break, and I get such an adrenaline rush from doing all of this! Is something wrong with me?

I've had the urge to express myself this way, but once again, I took a step back, and examined this type of behavior.  Perhaps I'm just not the activist type, but I just have a hard time taking people seriously that go around angrily handing out pamphlets, fking with bookstore shelves (I'm always finding some religious book placed over atheist books in my local bookstores), wearing obnoxious buttons, and littering your car with <insert cause here> bumper stickers.  Just screams "nut job" to me.  (Sorry, MedievalGuy)

Medievalguy wrote:
I'm even planning on leaving the US and giving up my citizenship because of religion! I can't fucking stand this place! Religion is EVERYWHERE in this fucked up country. On the money, in the pledge, I can't drive anywhere without seeing at least ONE "god bless america" sticker, or some fucking xtian fish on the back of somebody's car. Science and reason are under full scale attack here. ID assholes are pushing hard to get their agenda into the class room, stem cell research that could alleviate the pain of thousands is being blocked, conservatives are trying push a first century chauvinistic world view on woman all over by denying them the right to control when they have children, the list goes on and on, I can't stand it anymore. Is something wrong with me?

Again, I think you're letting it get the best of you.  You're going to find some kind of fucked-uppedness no matter where you go.  Say what you want about the US, but at least you can speak your mind here and effect change...may not be an easy road, but is effecting change ever easy? 

My advice: 1. Chill out, go have a beer and a good cigar (but good luck finding a place where you can enjoy both), 2. Ease up on the in-your-face tactics, no one will take you seriously.  Fight em with calm, merciless logic & reason instead.  3. Don't be a puss and run away, stay and fight.  Otherwise, you'll be running from one thing or another your whole life.

But most of all, just remember: you are not alone.  Smiling

 

-HCG

 


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HC Grindon wrote:My advice:

HC Grindon wrote:

My advice: 1. Chill out, go have a beer and a good cigar (but good luck finding a place where you can enjoy both), 2. Ease up on the in-your-face tactics, no one will take you seriously.  Fight em with calm, merciless logic & reason instead.  3. Don't be a puss and run away, stay and fight.  Otherwise, you'll be running from one thing or another your whole life

1 problem, I don't drink or smoke. Sticking out tongue

Perhaps you're right about the anger thing. I've only been an atheist now for a little over a year, and nobody's more zealous than a (de)convert. But being here in Falwell land, surrounded by YEC's and other fundies I just enjoy putting up those stickers just to disrupt the fabric of their delicate little lives and remind them that not everyone believes the shit they do, and hopefully get them talking and questioning about the subject. If I get at least 1 person to start on the road of questioning, regardless how slowly, then it's worth it. I have one on my car saying "Evolution is just a THEORY, just like cell THEORY, atomic THEORY and the THEORY of gravity"

As for "running away", I know there will be religion no matter where I go, but there are some places that are just more tolerable than others. But again, I'm not leaving the US for just religious reasons. I've visited Europe three times and absolutely love the place. I love the countrysides, the architecture, the cultures, and the deep history. Plus, there is no medieval history in the US. (I'm medievalguy for nothing)


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you could move to richmond

you could move to richmond Eye-wink


HC Grindon
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Medievalguy wrote:HC Grindon

Medievalguy wrote:

HC Grindon wrote:

My advice: 1. Chill out, go have a beer and a good cigar (but good luck finding a place where you can enjoy both), 2. Ease up on the in-your-face tactics, no one will take you seriously.  Fight em with calm, merciless logic & reason instead.  3. Don't be a puss and run away, stay and fight.  Otherwise, you'll be running from one thing or another your whole life

1 problem, I don't drink or smoke. :-p

Bummer.  I enjoy an occasional cigar, but the hysterical non-smoking crowd (driven by their own over-zealous fervor) is making it difficult to do this anywhere but my own backyard.  But don't get me started, I'll start throwing pamphlets and the like Smiling

MedievalGuy wrote:
Perhaps you're right about the anger thing. I've only been an atheist now for a little over a year, and nobody's more zealous than a (de)convert. 

I've actually been the overzealot on both sides of the coin, as a born-again moron, and an angry apostate.

MedievalGuy wrote:
If I get at least 1 person to start on the road of questioning, regardless how slowly, then it's worth it.

Yeah, unfortunately that's what the overzealous religious nuts say too. I don't think the in-your-face tactics work on either side of the coin.

MedievalGuy wrote:
I have one on my car saying "Evolution is just a THEORY, just like cell THEORY, atomic THEORY and the THEORY of gravity"

Now that, THAT I'd stick on my bumper...ROFLMAO

MedievalGuy wrote:
As for "running away", I know there will be religion no matter where I go, but there are some places that are just more tolerable than others. But again, I'm not leaving the US for just religious reasons. I've visited Europe three times and absolutely love the place. I love the countrysides, the architecture, the cultures, and the deep history. Plus, there is no medieval history in the US. (I'm medievalguy for nothing)

Well, I wasn't just speaking of religion, certain cultural or political practices may put you off too...you could be running your whole life.  Of course, I wrote my "run-from" comment before I'd seen you post about your medieval history bit.

Anyway, my two cents on the matter.  I know where you're coming from.


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Greetings

I'd say as long as you're not harming anyone or causing contempt for atheists there is nothing wrong with what you do.  I'd be wary because making someone despise you can lead to (an idiot) becoming hostile to non-believers and that could snow ball to other things too like non-Christians or anyone who doesn't view the world in the exact same way.

However, there is such thing as a combination of rationality and religion.  If you don't believe that then I'm saddened.  So that said, you could always try to boost the rationality in the faithful rather than completely bickering and denouncing them.  The people you've named and despise though, the complete idiots/zombies, this of course would be very difficult if not impossible.

I couldn't agree more that religion is used to control people, and other facts like that that have been thrown out.  Especially doing research on dead fetus's...

You may find my beliefs to be totally moronic and write off what I have to say, and if that is true for every faithful person you encounter, then you have a pretty big problem with prejudice in my opinion.  I'm not saying that's the case but I'd say to anyone to be wary of their possible prejudices, and believe me when I say I am with mine. 

Also, I do my best to empathize with you and see what you have to say about God being everywhere.  It saddens me to think that people do very strange/irrational things only because they believe there is such an angry God out there.  Trying to convince these people to liberate themselves from fear will work more often than I think you may believe.  At least on some small scale.

(Many) Christians act like they alone spread the good word.  Well using the science of ethics is the most honorable and righteous thing to do, and it's proven to boot! Smiling  Good luck.

It is said the great ones catch teardrops in their hands.


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I've never actually gone

I've never actually gone medieval on anyone's ass in regards to their irrational beliefs...although i would consider the occassional pamphlet in a bible or clever sticker humorous as well as hopefully helpful.  Generally speaking, I spend so much time dealing with this crap - either here on-line or IRL with my group that when I go home or to the store/etc. I just ignore it and if a store is religiously affiliated I avoid it.

Okay... back to the reason I'm chiming in on this thread again.  Medieval guy, I think you have a right to be upset.  While I haven't done the things you've mentioned and I've now read of how others find them obsessive I will tell you I have literally broke into tears thinking about how depressing/fucked up/etc. all this crap is.


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Quote:I threw pamphlets at

Quote:
I threw pamphlets at catholic abortion protesters over spring break, and I get such an adrenaline rush from doing all of this! Is something wrong with me? The kicker is I wasn't brought up in a really religious home! So it's not like I'm rebelling against my family. I was hardcore religious once, of my own screwed up making, but nothing really horrible happened to me in church. I never had any bad experiences in christianity, nothing that would easily explain why I hate religion so much now.

It seems a lot of people feel anger after deconverting. You don't have to have bad experiences with it. I think it's more about the deception; the feeling of being decieved; of decieving yourself. I would guess that you're angry about that, and are angry that others are doing it to themselves and others. And I would guess that you enjoy your new world view, believe you're doing right, and get a kick out of the thought of bringing the same joy to others. Hence the adrenaline rush.

----
Faith is not a virtue.


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jonasnz1 wrote:Have any of

jonasnz1 wrote:

Have any of you seen the mist?

It has a wonderful depiction of just how dangerous, one religious fanatic can be...

The movie Sunshine also depicts this rather well.

Your god's silence speaks loud and clear


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Hahaha, funny you should

Hahaha, funny you should mention sunshine. I watched that last week thinking it was some kind of alien life attacking and when I found out it was a religious nut I was just....i dunno.... wow.


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Medievalguy wrote:1 problem,

Medievalguy wrote:

1 problem, I don't drink or smoke. Sticking out tongue

Perhaps you're right about the anger thing. I've only been an atheist now for a little over a year, and nobody's more zealous than a (de)convert. But being here in Falwell land, surrounded by YEC's and other fundies I just enjoy putting up those stickers just to disrupt the fabric of their delicate little lives and remind them that not everyone believes the shit they do, and hopefully get them talking and questioning about the subject. If I get at least 1 person to start on the road of questioning, regardless how slowly, then it's worth it. I have one on my car saying "Evolution is just a THEORY, just like cell THEORY, atomic THEORY and the THEORY of gravity"

As for "running away", I know there will be religion no matter where I go, but there are some places that are just more tolerable than others. But again, I'm not leaving the US for just religious reasons. I've visited Europe three times and absolutely love the place. I love the countrysides, the architecture, the cultures, and the deep history. Plus, there is no medieval history in the US. (I'm medievalguy for nothing)

I'm with you here.As a fairly new de-convert,I find myself having that fresh zeal.  If  I  didn't have to hide it from my family, I'd be wearing atheist shirts and badges. As it is,I'm planning to make a small notebook of contradictory bible verses and whatnot to carry around in case I get into random arguments.

I agree that seeing people praying,or haveing stupid bumper stickers, or a multitude of other things can get me seeing red. If someone was walking around saying the earth was flat you'd be pretty incredulous and want to correct them right? I feel it's the same.It sickens me and makes me feel sad for them at the same time.

I'm also planning on moving to Europe(UK).Religion doesn't have anything to do with the reason,but I can't deny what I've heard of their secularism is appealing!

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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Quote:Yet Easter Island,

Quote:
Yet Easter Island, with no trees, no soil, apparently no natural resources whatsoever, had almost 1000 famous stone Maoi statues, some of which were 30 feet tall, carved across the island. The island had previously been host to 10,000, which is a lot, and previously, had extremely fertile volcanic soil and the finest quarries in the Pacific. The islanders had developed a statue cult which completely destroyed the island. For they cut down trees and shaped rocks from the quarries to haul Maoi into place. The rate of Maoi building became so feverish that the islanders eventually chopped down all the trees, and the soil was washed away. By the time the catastrophe of the statue cult was through the Easter Island, there was nothing left on the island but the statues.

This is my favorite example to reference when asked, 'Well, what harm can there be to believing what I want to believe?'

Religion is wasteful of resources and energy. And we don't have an infinite supply of either. Most people laugh at the story of the Maoi statue-building: I wonder if they ever consider how much time, effort and material goes into constructing all of those Bibles and churches they make such frequent use of?

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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shelleymtjoy wrote:i have

shelleymtjoy wrote:
i have similar feelings to the OP myself...

My feelings of dislike for religious people have tended to fall off as I've gotten older.  I still dislike some of the more fundamentalist aspects.

Quote:
religion is downright dangerous and it makes me want to vomit to see that so many people believe this crap and totally fuck over everyone else's survival for their delusion.

Quoted for agreement.

Quote:
i'm sure it's probably worse for you - living close to liberty u. - but one thing that helps return some sanity to my life is hanging out with other atheists... be it for a speaker, social event, or just on-line. (snip) Irrational thought does seem to be everywhere to some degree.

What bothers me is that this sort of dangerous thinking exists in the UK as well.  I was at work on Monday and while I was talking to someone about my experiences with an ex (who briefly converted to Evangelical Christianity in order to try and pull herself out of a life of being a stoner and a down-and-out, only to later decide it "wasn't for her" and to become a stoner again) and how, while she was "trying to be a good witness", she tried to convert me.  At one point I started discussing how the elder of the church was trying to justify his belief in Genesis with the knowledge that the Earth was far older than 6000 years old (which he accepted by the way)... when this girl comes over and starts telling me about how Evolution is a lie, etc.  I'd already been dealing with Creationist nutcases on YT so the fact that some people had this attitude was no surprise to me.  What did surprise me was not only are there people in the UK who are like this (and the UK has a much larger Atheist population), but in fact there was at least one person who bought into the delusion that Special Creation was real and Evolutionary Biology was all a big con.

Ugh...

Anyway I'm a little more than worried that my job might be at risk since I know there are some who have overheard my conversation and know I'm an Atheist now... There are a number of people I know who are muslims, Christians etc at the office, and at least one of them is in a position of responsibility.

Still... At least I'm not in the bible belt of the States or I know I'd have been fired right away for daring to believe in Science.  But it's worrying though that someone of a fundamentalist nature (such as GW Bush) has his finger on the button...

Atheist, Logically-minded, Curious about the world around me.


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I thought I was the only one

I like going into the religious section of bookstores and writing 666 in light yellow highlighter in various religious nonsense scrawl that is sold there. I also used to rent religious videos at my library and record over them with things like "A Brief History of Disbelief" and Dawkins lectures at universities. I hate to admit that I used to do a lot worse than that with library videos, but I wont talk about that here.


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Not a de-convert

I have always been an atheist (I suppose i was a little agnostic for a while). Religion didn't really affect me much for most of my life, I basically thought it was stupid but harmless and didn't understand how anyone with a brain could buy into it.

My wife bought The God Delusion, I though it looked interesting but I didn't see the need as I already fully know. It peaked my interest and I became more aware of the role of religion today (I already knew a lot of what was going on, I just wasn't thinking about it I guess). Then I became angry! (for all of the reasons already mentioned)

My wife was my saviour though. She was worried about backlash on us, especially if the nutjobs knew where we lived ( I was going to harass door-knockers). She didn't stop me from being more active, I just toned it down. After a few months the anger subsided. It still comes back occasionally, but i mainly feel disgust or pity.

I think you are normal, but... too much anger isn't healthy. Maybe if you step back and take a rest from being active for a while you might feel a bit better. Australia isn't nearly as religious as the US, but it is still all around, you just have to ignore it a little.

 

Zen-atheist wielding Occam's katana.

Jesus said, "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." - Luke 12:51


DrMarcus
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Recently came out

I like to torture myself with things like Catholic radio (which I can only listen to in small doses). I feel I have to know what the other side (I hesitate to use the work enemy) is up to and what drives them forward.

I admit, I can get a little hot under the collar as I listen to the radio show priests dictate the 'mystical magical gyrations' needed to gain gods grace and salvation. But nothing drove me to a fury like the other day when I heard these con-men/ministers on a share-a-thon whatchamacallit talking about taking your last $1000 out of the bank and sending it to them (sowing was the term they used), and god would repay them six fold.

I could just see my wife's dead grandmother (while she was alive of course), taking her last few dollars out of the bank to send to these charlatans and it angered me to no end. Legalized con men. Thats all they are. And not only allowed to get away with it, but protected by misguided politicians.


Slimm
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Me Too

My blood boils also boils when ever I hear someone talking about this so called 'god' or the 'lord'. It just boggles my mind how so many can be brain washed.

99.9% of Theist don't even know where they are in the universe, and they think they can preach to me about something as absurd as religion? Our species as a whole can never claim intelligence until we do away with the superstitions...

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"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called Insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called Religion." - Robert M. Pirsig,


theevolvedone
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I have those thoughts too,

I have those thoughts too, you are not alone. I've focused myself on other things to sort of lessen the anger I feel towards people self depriving others and their self of the truth.  You are not what I would call anger, because I would think you dont wish harm on other people. I would think you just want to help them see the truth of what reality actually is.  The trouble with people is that they just have no interest in the truth, that is what makes me angry. In essence its saying i like being ignorant thank you.  Your ways of getting your message across is nothing like this guy's http://youtube.com/watch?v=1QhrrynMFiM ...this is my perfect image of a fundamental theist who makes war on reason and progress of civilization.  Luckily some of us can throw the emperor over the rail so to speak and free our minds....a weird interpretation of a semi old movie I know Sticking out tongue.  I think religion is now acting out of desperation....science has gone further than it ever has and in my opinion would be too difficult for religion to dislodge it now.  More people are able to go to college now than ever before.....itll only be a matter of time before reason wins or the earth is destroyed by "dirty mobs of religious lunatics" .  I think those are the two possiblities.  Anywho I think all we can do is keep fighting and speaking out respectably and peacefully of course...  If our civilization can make it to a point where strong ai is created....its over for religion...they will never have the upper hand again in my opinion.  I plan on devoting a good portion of my life to this in graduate school and when i reach post-doc status.  I find it helpful if im feeling too angry or dishearted about the sad state of people's minds to pursue a hobby.  Peace man

 

Doubt is the root of all wisdom. - Unknown

Knowing will come from the practice of understanding - Myself


kaab
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Just fuck it!

I tell you what is way better than putting "God Delusion" in the Bible area and recording over religious propaganda with atheist propaganda....get on religious websites and pretend to be the most hardcore religious insano ever, that is good for all kind of fun, tell them you would like to volunteer your services for doing drive-bys at abortion clinics, that you deny Jesus's entire existence because God is your one true God forever, that Jews and Muslims should be shot on site. You should see some of the replies I get from stuff like that. I will be mad at the world, and then I get on a Catholic forum and just start spouting nonsense and I feel so much better, I feel so relieved, it's great.


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Why I don't feel angry

Maybe its the way I "de-converted", but I don't feel the militant anti religious sentiment -- though I understand where most of it comes from. Instead of thinking in terms of de-conversion, I think of it in terms of "graduation from religion". I have surpassed it.

I grew up a religious person, and do not really regret it, because I believe at the time it made me a better person. But being the curious sort, I had questions my religion could not answer, and I ended up discovering philosophy. Philosophy brought out my life long love of learning, and ultimately conclude that my old religious beliefs are only true in a mythical/ethical point of view.

What religion is all about is: Human Nature

Religion plays on our nature in so many ways. Psychologically, sociologically, etc. I believe there are aspects of human nature that can be studied via comparative religion. I have a fascination for the badly named science of "neurotheology" (I prefer "theoneurology"), which tells us how the brain is almost perfectly adopted to religion. Religious experiences, are functions of the brain that we have evolved for some strange reason.

I believe it has to do with the development of language which is still on the primitive level. Religion plays with our non verbal brain which in some ways is more evolved (or at least it is more natural, since it is something we share with the whole animal kingdom). Sometimes our non-verbal mind understands things before our verbal brain gets it, and this sometimes results in revelatory or "spiritual" experiences which even us atheists experience from time to time.

Another aspect of the Human Nature element of religion comes in the definition of God as a superior human character that loves us as a father, and feels disappointment, and sorrow, and jealousy, and sometimes rewards and punishes.

Here is the real interesting part: There is no workable idea of God without human traits, that does not end up practically equating with atheism. If you believe in an alien "intelligence" at work in the universe, or that the universe itself is God, or that god is so ineffable that we cannot concieve of his true nature... for all practical purposes you are an Atheist. A God without human characteristics would not care about us one way or another, would not hear our prayers, has no say in the course of human events, did not make man in his own image, etc.

And so God is an illusion, a product of our own imagination, and a natural byproduct of our own nature. When I was a religious person I was giving in to that human trait. Now I have grown beyond it, and grown as a human being too.


Swizzlerock88
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It wouldn't be weird that

It wouldn't be weird that religion affected you, if you had a religion. Being really pissed off that other people are believing in things is a little weird.

chickensoup


Loc
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Swizzlerock88 wrote:It

Swizzlerock88 wrote:

It wouldn't be weird that religion affected you, if you had a religion. Being really pissed off that other people are believing in things is a little weird.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/13231

Still think it's weird to be pissed at people for believing in certain things?

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


Swizzlerock88
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Uh, yeah i still do.

Uh, yeah i still do.


Jubal
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I think you are

I think you are over-reacting the same way people over-react when they have a conversion experience. "No one has religious fervor like a convert," and I expect the same is true of a de-conversion process.

Religion is intensely emotional, on both sides of the coin. And while we can mock all the maniacs killing in the name of their God, it is also worthwhile to note that many people have been killed in the name of their God, many passively. That speaks volumes for the depth of feeling about religion as well as the sincerity of people on both sides of the question, if not to the good sense of the overly religious.

I have no respect at all for the fundamnetalists, who i view as completely devoid of thought on the subject. The woeful state of their ignorance even about their own book and the well documented history of their own religious traditions is astonishing to me.

On the other hand, when it comes to reformed Jews and milquetoast Christians, I'm not so worked up. Hell, half the people attending United Church of Christ services should probably not even call themselves Christians. They should just be honest and call themselves Deists.

Here in the U.S., the fundies get a LOT more play than their numbers warrant because they have political power well outside the norm based upon their population. This they have done through very carefully working very hard over a long period of time, aided by lots of political cynics who have used these people and their beliefs to further partisan political gains.

I get really worked up too, and I've had my share of anti-religious rants. But I find it a lot more useful to spend that emotion on something productive rather than being in a constant state of anger.

Just remember that for all the religiosity in the USA, most "believers" when you talk to them in a little more depth, turn out to have religion as more or less a harmless, not too deeply felt eccentricity, rather than as some kind of abiding deep feeling guiding their every day lives.

That means there's hope, because these folks will actually watch videos of Hitchens and the like debunking religion, have their beliefs, which may be largely based upon a very REAL feeling of Awe changed drastically over time.

If you really want to erradicate religion, well, good luck, because I think that's never going to happen. On the other hand, a tireless and methodical project to vastly improve the teaching of basic science will have a very substantive result over the long term in reducing levels of wishful thinking and extreme forms of religiosity.

Remember, the Fundies didn't get power by decrying over the sad state of the godless nation from the pulpits. They got it by working hard over a couple decades getting their members elected to school boards and city councils, and then worked on taking power in the Republican party and electing congressmen etc.

The religious crazies can be fought, but it's a VERY long-term project, and just runnign around being pissed off all the time won't help.

Being open-minded isn't the same thing as being vacant.


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jubal wrote:I have no

jubal wrote:
I have no respect at all for the fundamnetalists, who i view as completely devoid of thought on the subject. The woeful state of their ignorance even about their own book and the well documented history of their own religious traditions is astonishing to me.

Quote:
Just remember that for all the religiosity in the USA, most "believers" when you talk to them in a little more depth, turn out to have religion as more or less a harmless, not too deeply felt eccentricity, rather than as some kind of abiding deep feeling guiding their every day lives.

Quote:
The religious crazies can be fought, but it's a VERY long-term project, and just runnign around being pissed off all the time won't help.

I've taken a few of these quotes from the overall message as how much they had emphasis to me personally, and so I'd like to address them (well... Not so much address, as to perhaps acknowledge their point).

I could do with this kind of a wake up call from Atheists/Deists a little more often.  See, even now, I occasionally slip into a stubborn mindset where I have to argue against a Christian or a Muslim for their faith because of my experiences with more radical aspects of their faith.  What I'm sometimes guilty of forgetting is that there are Deists, Christians, Muslims and people of other faiths who are far less radicalised and far more open to the reality of the world today, and so I am in danger of tarring them all with the same brush.

That's not to say I'll change who I am.  I'm still an Atheist, and I still believe that anyone who believes in any of the religious beliefs on the planet need to get a reality check... And of course I'm still blunt about it.  Having said that, most of the more moderate out there are at least able to divide their religious beliefs from their daily lives and won't sit there and call me an evil Satan worshipper and a paedophile/murderer/homosexual/cannibal (delete as applicable) just because I lack a belief in a deity, and to those people I say: I have no contempt for you.  My contempt is reserved for those who take their belief so seriously that they override common sense and, in doing so, put other people at risk ("Faith healing", anyone?)

I'm happy to discuss with moderates and I'll try to be respectful, since for the most part, they try to live by the positive teachings of their belief (even if I don't agree with it) and are therefore at least giving me the facsimile of respectfulness.

Fundamentalists and Creationists get no such respect from me since they can never earn it with their dishonesty and their base tactics.

Atheist, Logically-minded, Curious about the world around me.


EXC
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Messiah complex

Medievalguy wrote:

Is something wrong with me?

Yes, you have Messiah complex.

You become what you hate. So chill out and forgive them, for they know not what they do.

 

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen