Proof God Exists

Lot2
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magilum
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Luminon wrote:Quote:You

Luminon wrote:

Quote:
You haven't substantiated that premise. There are also claims that NASA had to account for a missing day in their orbital calculations because of Yahweh stopping the sun for Elijah, or whatever the fuck it was supposed to be. The point is that photo and a nickel will get you half a national long distance minute.

There's no way how to substantiate the premise through the internet. I can't reach through the computer screen, grab you, take you to a street where's this light pattern currenly on a wall and show it to you. I just describe this effect, so if anyone who reads this, would manage to notice it somewhere and pay attention to it.

Thus reducing the significance to an argument from ignorance, as previously stated. I won't repeat next post, I'll just assume it's flown past you.

Luminon wrote:
It can appear anywhere in inhabitated place, usually on buildings' walls or fences.

"If a tree falls in the forest..." Anywhere it's seen is an inhabited place, so I don't see the value of the qualifier. Beyond that, other things that are in inhabited places: shiny polished objects, light emitting technology, pranksters, idiotic pilgrims.

Luminon wrote:
Then a witness will know what to expect and what to check on this light pattern, for example, if it really stays on place, when the sun and sun light reflections moves by time, or if it is bright, while sunlight is much weaker. This is what people should do with claims they don't see proven, store them for later till they find a proof what supports them or disproves.

That's acceptable, but it's also backpedaling.

Luminon wrote:
You may think that I'm begging the question, but I just inform you about things which are proven for me and which you can later verify for yourself. It may take a time, but maybe not so much.

I don't think you understood the accusation.

Luminon wrote:

I don't need to prove anything for myself anymore, I am convinced enough, I know a girl who took this smaller photo and we have put an ad. to a local newspaper for those, who witnessed the second light pattern effect in the second town. (about 5 people called back) Other numerous similar sightings and photos from the world can be found in a specialised section of a certain magazine.

The same can be said for crosses appearing in smog-stained glass buildings, trees dripping sap that "looks like Jesus" (since our image of the semitic figure is an uninformed European archetype, I have no idea why it's significant to look like something representing something that no one rendering it has seen), the Baba dripping holy ash or the healing touch of Benny Hinn. You have an argument from ignorance supported by an appeal to popularity. All you have the basis to say is "What the hell is this?" Nothing more.

Luminon wrote:


Quote:
I didn't mean to imply that the current system is designed at all. These unfortunate circumstances may be addressed deliberately, but it doesn't mean they came about that way. You may as well complain that the body is designed to force people to manufacture Twinkies because the product eventually came about.
I did. You could have a look at the film Zeitgeist. It's a good film for atheists, firstly it deeply digs through religious myths, but in about a second half it comes to the modern financial system, who, when, how and why created it. It later goes on with different topic, but all its parts are very intriguing. 

LOL. Search the forum, pls.


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..

All right. I'm sorry I didn't post this link here before, maybe I had a blackout of mind.
http://www.share-international.org/background/miracles/mi_circles.htm
Share International magazine keeps track of these events in world and on this link to their homepage there's a lot of these photographs. You will see they're all variations of a rectangular "X" in a circle, and they're really remarkable on the walls.
Please notice this text there:

Quote:
Share International magazine receives large numbers of photographs from around the world showing ‘patterns of light’ which suddenly appear on buildings, pavements and other surfaces reflected when the sun shines, and which often appear and disappear over a period of days and weeks.

Maybe I didn't wrote things exactly, but I hope the official source will clear it up. So, to say it again and shortly, there are light patterns from the world and they also showed last year in two towns around my house where I live. One photographed, one witnessed by people going around the supermarket.

Please, note, that most of other things which you can find on the SI magazine homepage isn't a part of the discussion. They are highly related to the magazine purpose and also things, which you have to see for yourself or hear from a person you very well know, to consider they are true. I am lucky to know such a credible people who had been there and experienced some of things described on the SI page, so I can seriously take them into account.  But that's only me, you, without a credible experience, will be sceptical as always (unfortunately also cynical) and I have no need to argue about it with you. I can write what I know, if you ask me. You may have a look at the page, it won't hurt you and maybe you'll better notice if something like this happens around you. It did near me, you have the chance too. Until then, good luck.

Quote:
I don't think you understood the accusation.
I'm sorry, probably I didn't. I'm not trained in such a kind of thinking, to be honest, I don't see it as a certain way to find out the truth, there must be always a belief that the arguments on input are true. So I rather focus on them. I say only what has been proven to me, sometimes what has "only" a high probability, according to already known things. It's not a faith, I have reasons. If the reasons will change, I will accept a different level of truth, but I keep it quite updated, so there aren't any major mindquakes expected. Details and outcomes may change, but my reasons are still the same.

Quote:
The same can be said for crosses appearing in smog-stained glass buildings, trees dripping sap that "looks like Jesus" (since our image of the semitic figure is an uninformed European archetype, I have no idea why it's significant to look like something representing something that no one rendering it has seen), the Baba dripping holy ash or the healing touch of Benny Hinn. You have an argument from ignorance supported by an appeal to popularity. All you have the basis to say is "What the hell is this?" Nothing more.

It's significant, because people gives it a significance, our psychology works in such a way. Humans are sometimes called "audiovisual monkeys". We communicate through symbols. Often our words are just symbols for a special semantics. If a hypothetical supernatural being wants to communicate with religional people of today, he has to use symbols, which they use.  For non-religional people the communication would be different. 
By the way, we both know Sathya Sai Baba gives the holy ash to people. Dunno how you, but I'd really want to know where does he take it from. There's so much people in the temple, that he would have to carry a big sack or two of holy ash on his back, to have enough of it for all. Also, he seems to enjoy his magic show, when he rolls up his sleeve, turns the palm of his hand down and then again up, and there's suddenly a cheap trinket ring as a small gift for a pilgrim. This is how people from this country who were in India, describes what Sai Baba does. I don't know anyone personally who was there, but I know other sources, which supports this, so there's quite a high probability, though not 100% certainity.

Quote:
LOL. Search the forum, pls.
Ok, I'll give it a try.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


HisWillness
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Luminon

You realize, of course, that the site specifies this happens when the sun shines. Light reflected twice could produce this pattern easily, and it seems to coincidentally happen on buildings that are accross from other windowed buildings. What's a good explanationa for that? Oh, right: GOD.

While I'm fighting to contain my fist of death at this inglorious leap of ignorance, check out any book on optics available. Then consider double-paned windows.

What I find even more spectacular is the fact that the site attributes it to a god I've never heard of before: "Benjamin Creme's Master confirms these light miracles are another sign of Maitreya’s presence in the world." Is there really a guy named "Ben Creme" who has a Master? Maitreya?

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HisWillness wrote:Luminon

HisWillness wrote:

You realize, of course, that the site specifies this happens when the sun shines. Light reflected twice could produce this pattern easily, and it seems to coincidentally happen on buildings that are accross from other windowed buildings. What's a good explanationa for that? Oh, right: GOD.

While I'm fighting to contain my fist of death at this inglorious leap of ignorance, check out any book on optics available. Then consider double-paned windows.

What I find even more spectacular is the fact that the site attributes it to a god I've never heard of before: "Benjamin Creme's Master confirms these light miracles are another sign of Maitreya’s presence in the world." Is there really a guy named "Ben Creme" who has a Master? Maitreya?

Yeah, a reflected light may do it, but not in the same exact way on the whole world. If it would be a reflection, it would be on walls everywhere you can ever see windows, walls and sun.  Go to a city on a sunny day and look around, there are hundreds of windows, and look for such a light pattern, at least similar to the photos. I doubt you'd find any.


Notice the circular shape. But practically all windows are squares or rectangles. A convex or concave glass could do it, but the glass or whatever is in the windows, is totally flat, it doesn't distort the light, so we can easily see through. I have double-paned windows too and they make no circular reflections. It just doesn't happen with a rectangular, flat glass, as you could know from an optics books. But feel free to have a look around, if you'll see any such a light pattern, you will know where to search for a smoke and mirrors. Don't forget to take a photo first, these things can disappear in a moment, independently on windows and sunlight.

 

By the way, Ben Creme and Maitreya are people you know nothing about. All right, I take it as a question. Firstly, people, not gods, it's no religion, no worshipping, just a people uniting together, because they're worried of world problems. If you would do some googling, you would know, that Maitreya Buddha is one of names for a man awaited by every major religion, like Jews awaits Messiah, Hinduists Kalki, Christians the Christ, Muslims Imam Mahdi. Ben Creme says, that they're all various names for the same person (he chose to use the buddhistic name, buddhism is coo') and this person is currently in the world. He could be seen, for example, as a speaksman in London Pakistani community in the times after 1977. Since then, on many places, but always anonymously. He  says he didn't come to gather disciples. Well, so much for the religion.

Maitreya considers himself to be a world teacher, to encourage people to transform the world. You know, there's Darfur, there's Gaza bank, there's White Sands (a nuclear shooting range), and so on, and a lot of other pieces of world worth transforming. I heard he's quite a wise guy, he may know how to do it, for example to solve problems of people in the Middle East, and I'd find it really nice, you know, it's kinda close next to me, I wouldn't want to die in a rocket crossfire. If he shows up, I'll listen to him, I'd like to hear what he has to say. Ben Creme's something like Maitreya's press agent. He calls him Master, it's an abbreviation for "master of wisdom", thus an expression how this guy could be handy if people would ask him for an advice. I know, Creme's description sounds kind of esoterically, and so on, but I'm just used to it, I my head doesn't turn in 360 degrees when I hear an esoteric talk. I don't care about these details, they're practically a technical jargon. I have seen enough of the impossible, to stop ignorantly judging what is possible and what not. And I'm not any christian, who's afraid of Antichrist all the time. It's simple. Antichrist does evil, messiah does good. If there's a guy who can show us how to help this world flooded with problems, then I can surely give him a while of my attention. If people says (like some witnesses in Bratislava I spoke with) this guy can show out of nowhere and then disappear in a split of second, then  I'm fine with it, at least he can't be nailed on a cross again, you don't have to bother with searching for a hammer. I know only what local witnesses says, and believe it or not, they kinda support Creme's version.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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Ok, you obviously didn't

Ok, you obviously didn't read a single thing I said so here's a pretty picture version instead.  You can even colour it in if you want.

Now, due to not being at home I can't upload this image to my own host so I'm hotlinking directly from the site.  If the image doesn't show for anyone, simply go to the original website and you can see it (and the article) there.  In fact, go to the website anyway luminon.  It might hurt a braincell or two, but it could double your IQ at the same time.

The website is livescience.

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Luminon wrote:Yeah, a

Luminon wrote:
Yeah, a reflected light may do it, but not in the same exact way on the whole world.

Once again, you're a moron.  Why not?  It happens in so many places so many times surely at least SOME of them are bound to look the same?  The number that do doesn't surprise me at all.  It's only your willing ignorance that makes it surprise you.

Luminon wrote:
If it would be a reflection, it would be on walls everywhere you can ever see windows, walls and sun.  Go to a city on a sunny day and look around, there are hundreds of windows, and look for such a light pattern, at least similar to the photos. I doubt you'd find any.

Once again, you're a moron.  The sun isn't always at the right angle to reflect on to a shady surface and light it up.  The windows aren't always heated or affected by differing air pressure enough to cause the bending of the windows.

Luminon wrote:
Notice the circular shape. But practically all windows are squares or rectangles. A convex or concave glass could do it, but the glass or whatever is in the windows, is totally flat, it doesn't distort the light, so we can easily see through.

Once again, you're a moron.  What happens to glass when it heats up?  It expands.  Where does it expand?  It's held in place at the edges, all it can do is bend in the middle.  Most new office buildings these days are fully sealed and enclosed including the windows, aircon providing all air circulation.  This can create a nice difference in pressure between the two sides of the glass.  This causes the glass to be sucked inwards and a concave shape in it.

What happens when you look at a ruler or other straight object in a bent mirror?  It looks bent, contorted.  That is where the circular shape comes from.  Due to windows being square they do not cause an even concave shape like a satelite dish but rather a line from one corner to the opposite goes deeper than the rest which concentrates the light in the reflection to an X type shape.

Luminon wrote:
I have double-paned windows too and they make no circular reflections. It just doesn't happen with a rectangular, flat glass, as you could know from an optics books.

Once again, you're a moron.  What you're talking about is only the case when the glass is flat.  Everything I have said so far has been that one natural force or another causes the glass to bend in to a concave shape.  I never said it was from flat glass.

Luminon wrote:
But feel free to have a look around, if you'll see any such a light pattern, you will know where to search for a smoke and mirrors. Don't forget to take a photo first, these things can disappear in a moment, independently on windows and sunlight.

Once again, you're a moron.

 

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Man, I can't believe you're

Man, I can't believe you're still harping on this shit.

Luminon wrote:

All right. I'm sorry I didn't post this link here before, maybe I had a blackout of mind.
http://www.share-international.org/background/miracles/mi_circles.htm
Share International magazine keeps track of these events in world and on this link to their homepage there's a lot of these photographs. You will see they're all variations of a rectangular "X" in a circle, and they're really remarkable on the walls.
Please notice this text there:

Quote:
Share International magazine receives large numbers of photographs from around the world showing ‘patterns of light’ which suddenly appear on buildings, pavements and other surfaces reflected when the sun shines, and which often appear and disappear over a period of days and weeks.

Maybe I didn't wrote things exactly, but I hope the official source will clear it up. So, to say it again and shortly, there are light patterns from the world and they also showed last year in two towns around my house where I live. One photographed, one witnessed by people going around the supermarket.

That thing I said I was going to assume, I'm going to assume about you.

Luminon wrote:


[ramble ramble ramble]

Quote:
I don't think you understood the accusation.
I'm sorry, probably I didn't. I'm not trained in such a kind of thinking, to be honest, I don't see it as a certain way to find out the truth, there must be always a belief that the arguments on input are true. So I rather focus on them. I say only what has been proven to me, sometimes what has "only" a high probability, according to already known things. It's not a faith, I have reasons. If the reasons will change, I will accept a different level of truth, but I keep it quite updated, so there aren't any major mindquakes expected. Details and outcomes may change, but my reasons are still the same. 

Maybe you should care about looking at things systematically so your conclusions won't be fallacious like they are currently.

Luminon wrote:


Quote:
The same can be said for crosses appearing in smog-stained glass buildings, trees dripping sap that "looks like Jesus" (since our image of the semitic figure is an uninformed European archetype, I have no idea why it's significant to look like something representing something that no one rendering it has seen), the Baba dripping holy ash or the healing touch of Benny Hinn. You have an argument from ignorance supported by an appeal to popularity. All you have the basis to say is "What the hell is this?" Nothing more.

It's significant, because people gives it a significance, our psychology works in such a way.

I'm a rocket ship, bleep blorp. Who cares about looking for an accurate representation of things when we can just impose whatever comforting asininity suits us.

Luminon wrote:
Humans are sometimes called "audiovisual monkeys". We communicate through symbols. Often our words are just symbols for a special semantics. If a hypothetical supernatural being wants to communicate with religional people of today, he has to use symbols, which they use.  For non-religional people the communication would be different.

Begging the question.. sigh.

Luminon wrote:

By the way, we both know Sathya Sai Baba gives the holy ash to people. Dunno how you, but I'd really want to know where does he take it from.

Same place you get your conclusions.


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Luminon wrote:Yeah, a

Luminon wrote:

Yeah, a reflected light may do it, but not in the same exact way on the whole world.

Must ... stop ... fist ... of ... death.

Just read thingy's post. You may want to read it twice.

Honestly, this jump between mystery and the supernatural is consistently fascinating. "Hey, I don't know where the car keys are; Loki must have stolen them!"

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Luminon wrote:Maitreya

Luminon wrote:

Maitreya considers himself to be a world teacher, to encourage people to transform the world. [...] Ben Creme's something like Maitreya's press agent. He calls him Master, it's an abbreviation for "master of wisdom", thus an expression how this guy could be handy if people would ask him for an advice.

... and Maitreya is invisible. Ben Creme has an invisible friend he calls "master of wisdom". That's ... awesome. Therefore regular light reflections are magic. Okay, I think I follow. But excuse me if it seems positively insane.

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Luminon wrote:Yeah, a

Luminon wrote:

Yeah, a reflected light may do it, but not in the same exact way on the whole world.

... Well, it would take a REALLY big window across the street to reflect onto the whole world.

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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BMcD wrote:Luminon

BMcD wrote:

Luminon wrote:

Yeah, a reflected light may do it, but not in the same exact way on the whole world.

... Well, it would take a REALLY big window across the street to reflect onto the whole world.

 

The whole world?  I haven't seen them here.  Did I blink at the wrong time?

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

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thingy: If I'm a moron, then

thingy: If I'm a moron, then you don't have to be the least offended by me. You know, morons aren't worth of any emotions.
All right, to show a little bit of healthy scepticism, it's a nice work with Photoshop of the guys from the livescience.com. Are both these buildings at the same street?
Anyway, it's not much convincing, if you (or rather I) look closer at it. Notice, that these reflections are not in circles, while almost all on the SI page and these what appeared around here were definitely circular. You say it's a difference in pressures, it's such a difference really so big? If it can suck the window glass in, so it bends, it would have to work even more with people's eardrums.
I haven't ever experienced a difference in pressure when entering a building with an air conditioning.
These reflections appear often in rows, like windows are built, but some in just like a random position, definitely not like a neat row of windows.
Some cities (like New York, if I remember) are built with a world-sides oriented streets. When the sun is in a good position, these light patterns should be a more common sight than it currently is.  When it can happen on one building, it can happen on another,there should be at least some semi-formed characteristic reflections, if the circumstances aren't ideal, but just nearing.
How do you explain these reflections can disappear in one moment? It happened here and nobody could shut off a sun or break a window so quickly.
And finally, you see, that some of these "reflections" are quite low on the ground, so anyone can stand in front of them and see the window from which the sun reflection is coming. A reflecting window is distinguishable on kilometers, there should be no problem to see this. Anyone should be able to see from where it's coming. If it would come from a neighbour's new window set, then nobody would really give it a significance. By the way, I have never seen my plastic, quite modern windows reflect anything like that. I would rather say, that the light goes always through, no matter if in the noon or sunset. Does it require a special, polarized glass? Most of buildings doesn't use it, they have normal clear glass (or plastic).
Well, don't worry about it, people can believe in various bs, which can even start a burglarious war, this one's quite harmless.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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Luminon wrote:How do you

Luminon wrote:


How do you explain these reflections can disappear in one moment? It happened here and nobody could shut off a sun or break a window so quickly.

Clouds.

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Luminon wrote:I haven't ever

Luminon wrote:

I haven't ever experienced a difference in pressure when entering a building with an air conditioning.

No, not inside the building, between the two panes of glass.

Also, why are you so skeptical of a reasonable explanation, and so accepting of an explanation that involves nonsense?

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HisWillness wrote:Luminon

HisWillness wrote:

Luminon wrote:

I haven't ever experienced a difference in pressure when entering a building with an air conditioning.

No, not inside the building, between the two panes of glass.

Also, why are you so skeptical of a reasonable explanation, and so accepting of an explanation that involves nonsense?

Because he's got an emotional investment in the nonsense.

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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Lot2 wrote:I maintain that

Lot2 wrote:
I maintain that lightning striking a church as soon as the preacher asks for a message from God is too improbable to just be a coincidence. It's an insult to someone's intelligence to say otherwise. The story says the preacher even said God's voice sounds like thunder right before this happened!

I think we are insulting your intelligence, then. The preacher was preaching during a thunderstorm - is it odd that he would mention the "voice of God sounds like thunder"?

 

Think about it, its rare but hardly a sign of god.  Or, is this what God does?  A vague display and then disappears?

Lot, if you believe this is some sign of God, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Eye-wink

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
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..

Quote:
Clouds.
Well, maybe. On this photo there isn't a particularly nice day, I'd rather say it was already clouded there. Anyway, clouds would be too slow. It was like the girl took a photo of it, and before she could raise her sight from a cell phone (by which it was photographed) her friend immediately told her to look at the wall, because the pattern disappeared. The interesting thing about it was, that the girl before complained a lot, that everyone she knows had already seen the light pattern miracle, or had such a mystical experience, just not her. Well, and soon after this light pattern in a town of Cesky Tesin appeared just for her and disappeared after being photographed. And she also later observed a much bigger and shining light circles in the town of Trinec, together with people walking by. So I guess her wish was satisfied.

HisWillness wrote:

Luminon wrote:

I haven't ever experienced a difference in pressure when entering a building with an air conditioning.


No, not inside the building, between the two panes of glass.
Also, why are you so skeptical of a reasonable explanation, and so accepting of an explanation that involves nonsense?

If you mean a pressure between the two panes of a glass, then it really could make the X-like reflection, if an outer pressure would be different and the glass could bend so much. But where this circle around does come from and how can these patterns  sometimes appear like turned by 90 degrees (laid on length), and in positions not resembling windows is still a mystery. However, if an outer pressure would be lower, the pattern would have to be magnified, much bigger than a window, and with weakened light intensity, like by a dispersive lens.  I don't think I recognized any photos like this.
Of course for this I assume the effect is taking a place where with some opposite windows, which can be compared to it if they match to the pattern. For example, I attended a schools in the town of Trinec for 8 years and I can't imagine how the recent light pattern on the supermarket there could be reflected from these low buildings on the other side of the street, behind which are no other buildings. If a reflected angle equals the original angle, it couldn't work on a vertical surface.

I know that it sounds like a nonsense, and that a "scientific" explanation is meant to look logically. It truly does, for the most of people, who had no chance to know what I know. However, I have an access to longtime experiences, which supports this "nonsense" version. There is a citizen association, founded by my parents and several other people, which is focused on a personal self-development, in the deepest sense of this word. They search for informations, which may be useful, and they research them in cooperation, improve them if possible, and use them in practice. The informations may be of spiritual, cosmological, ecological, psychological or transcendental kind, for example. The club has already achieved quite a notable results in research of a life principles and there are quite clear guidelines of what is happening in the world. This informed look on the world allows the club to notice, distinguish, verify and understand important events.
Except of that, the club chooses, translates, publishes and sells books and some other ecologic or healing products.
I am quite well informed of the club activity, it's achievements and verified informations. Also, even if I would know nothing, I am always tuned to be sensitive towards an effect of so-called psi-sphere technique. It's literally an ability of sensing and shaping a certain form of "energy". Everyone can learn it (and I have seen people to do it), I just have a lifetime practice and it works for me automatically. There are some uses for it, mostly for healing (and it's taught on courses), but since I'm not a healer, it's mostly an ability to perceive (by touch) what is slightly beyond materiality, and so it is with many other things. Not everyone are the same, and when someone can sense what others can't, it is a natural state of things, we have to live with it.

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Luminon wrote:Quote:Clouds.

Luminon wrote:

Quote:
Clouds.
Well, maybe.

Yeah, maybe.  Because unlike god, we don't actually have proof that clouds exist, right?

Luminon wrote:
On this photo there isn't a particularly nice day, I'd rather say it was already clouded there.

Of course you'd rather say that.  It's the only thing that keeps your fairy tale going.

Luminon wrote:
Anyway, clouds would be too slow. It was like the girl took a photo of it, and before she could raise her sight from a cell phone (by which it was photographed) her friend immediately told her to look at the wall, because the pattern disappeared.

Hmmm...guess you had to be there.

Luminon wrote:

The interesting thing about it was, that the girl before complained a lot, that everyone she knows had already seen the light pattern miracle, or had such a mystical experience, just not her. Well, and soon after this light pattern in a town of Cesky Tesin appeared just for her and disappeared after being photographed. And she also later observed a much bigger and shining light circles in the town of Trinec, together with people walking by. So I guess her wish was satisfied.

I guess that rather than go with a more reasonable explanation, you'd prefer to weave a complete fiction around a meaningless photograph.

 

What we can so far ascertain from this thread is god likes to burn churches and play with lens flares on photographs.

Yeah, sounds like a guy I want to worship.

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Luminon wrote:thingy: If I'm

Luminon wrote:
thingy: If I'm a moron, then you don't have to be the least offended by me. You know, morons aren't worth of any emotions.

But your willingness to choose ignorance does insult me, as I said before.

Luminon wrote:
All right, to show a little bit of healthy scepticism,

I have been.  Yet to see any from you.

Luminon wrote:
it's a nice work with Photoshop of the guys from the livescience.com. Are both these buildings at the same street?

Oh my fucking god.  You have GOT to be fucking kidding me, right?

Luminon wrote:
Anyway, it's not much convincing, if you (or rather I) look closer at it. Notice, that these reflections are not in circles, while almost all on the SI page and these what appeared around here were definitely circular.

Lets try again with the pretty diagrams shall we?  Ok, here's a rectangular mirror with points A, B, C and D marked for your convenience.  You do remember what rectangles are from Sesame Street, don't you?

Now, when you bend a mirror either through air pressure, heat, or just plain force on the middle of it these will be the deepest points.

Here I show some rough depth lines.  Remember, this is all done in MS paint to make it as simple for you as I possibly can.

When you shine a directed light source at a concave object, the can converge at a certain point and then disperse again.  Lets place our wall at that point while we're at it.

One of the results of the concaving of the rectangular window as well as the object being reflected on to being at the right angle and distance away therefore, would be a concentration of light as depicted by the red area of this picture.

And there you have those "mysterious" X's of yours.  Grade school physics here, mate.

I don't know if you can remember back far enough to me mentioning points A, B, C and D - it may have been too long ago.  Anyway, I labeled some points on the original rectangle.  Points B and D will be shallower, they will not be angled in as much as points A and C.  Therefore, they will not concentrate light as much as points A and C.  This will create a rounding affect as depicted in purple here.

Well fuck me dead, it's that damned circle you're so fond of.  So what happens when we combine both of these affects as you would get from a rectangular piece of glass being bent and reflecting sunlight.  The blue shown here will be the original shape of the glass but you won't see that in the reflection.  No, you will see the purple shape, and then much brighter the red shape.

Your mysterious light-ish circles with very bright X's in them, explained.  Now, that wasn't hard was it? 

The circle can't clearly be seen in the livescience picture because the conditions weren't quite right for that to be obvious enough in the pictures - but I assure you it is there.

Luminon wrote:
You say it's a difference in pressures, it's such a difference really so big? If it can suck the window glass in, so it bends, it would have to work even more with people's eardrums.
I haven't ever experienced a difference in pressure when entering a building with an air conditioning.

If you read the livescience article, only a few millimeters bending is needed.  They also mentioned the glass being heated by the sun which causes it to expand.  The pressure differences don't need to be massive to have an affect, especially combined with the expanded glass. 

Luminon wrote:
These reflections appear often in rows, like windows are built, but some in just like a random position, definitely not like a neat row of windows.

Not all buildings are flat, distances between the buildings will affect this as well as small changes in the angle of the windows.

Luminon wrote:
Some cities (like New York, if I remember) are built with a world-sides oriented streets. When the sun is in a good position, these light patterns should be a more common sight than it currently is.

Lets adjust that focus point picture of mine and put the wall further away.

Now lets put it closer.

Well I'll be damned, too far away or too close and the light is too disbursed to create those patterns.  The further away it is the less concaved the window needs to be.  The closer it is the more concaved it needs to be.  The building doesn't have to be right across the street.  What you need is sunlight, a concave surface, AND an object the correct distance away to catch the focal point.

Have you ever played with a magnifying glass?  Ever tried to make paper burn with it?  You need to keep adjusting how far away the magnifying glass and paper are until you get the light focused enough on a small point.  Same thing here.

Luminon wrote:
When it can happen on one building, it can happen on another,there should be at least some semi-formed characteristic reflections, if the circumstances aren't ideal, but just nearing.

Which they do.  Next time you hear of these things appearing, if the following day is going to be sunny as well then go to that point an hour before hand and you'll see them form up.  These photos were all taken at times when they were at or near their best.

Luminon wrote:
How do you explain these reflections can disappear in one moment? It happened here and nobody could shut off a sun or break a window so quickly.

Clouds.  Clouds don't cover the entire sky all the time, they can be quite small.  The sun may be shining where you are and most other things you can see, but blocking the building causing the reflection.  There's many other things that can block it as well as the sun moves (perspective wise) through the sky.

Luminon wrote:
And finally, you see, that some of these "reflections" are quite low on the ground, so anyone can stand in front of them and see the window from which the sun reflection is coming. A reflecting window is distinguishable on kilometers, there should be no problem to see this. Anyone should be able to see from where it's coming. If it would come from a neighbour's new window set, then nobody would really give it a significance. By the way, I have never seen my plastic, quite modern windows reflect anything like that. I would rather say, that the light goes always through, no matter if in the noon or sunset. Does it require a special, polarized glass? Most of buildings doesn't use it, they have normal clear glass (or plastic).

So you're saying when you walk past a building, shop window or a car you have NEVER seen a reflection in the glass?  Most of the light goes through, but some is reflected.

Edit: You've shown in plenty of posts that you have received the education required to explain these lights.  You've shown that you do have the knowledge to do so.  The only reason you can't is that you choose not to.  The fact that you choose not to, it just leaves me flabbergasted.  There's a VERY logical and simple explanation, one simple enough that a grade school kid could understand it, but instead of thinking logically about it you purposefully choose to go right out on left field and declare "NUP!  GOING TO STOP THINKING ABOUT IT COMPLETELY AT THIS POINT FOR NO GOOD REASON! GOD DID IT! END OF STORY!

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Luminon wrote:I know that it

[Removed by thingy, entire post was non-constructive]


 


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Nice breakdown of the

Nice breakdown of the concept, Thingy. With the light so reflected, it wouldn't be obvious from street level. A better vantage point would be parallel to the angle of reflection; like one of the windows in the building being reflected on. A small scale test could easily be performed with a piece of acrylic.

Of course, the most potent explanation is that god is talking to us, so our hearts will burst from all the beauty in the world.

 


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magilum wrote:Nice breakdown

magilum wrote:

Nice breakdown of the concept, Thingy. With the light so reflected, it wouldn't be obvious from street level. A better vantage point would be parallel to the angle of reflection; like one of the windows in the building being reflected on. A small scale test could easily be performed with a piece of acrylic.

Of course, the most potent explanation is that god is talking to us, so our hearts will burst from all the beauty in the world.

It probably makes more sense if I explain the circular effect first, but I wanted to get the X out in my mind before anything else as to me that's the most complex and strangest bit of it.  As I said, 5th grade stuff, when ever one learns of angles and reflection it can be explained.  One thing I remember above all else is in grade school when I got in trouble, being told my explination was an excuse and not a reason for what happened.  An excuse is not acceptable, a reason is.  Anything other than what I've posted here is not one form of logic over another, actually it is choosing to ignore logical reason over a quick excuse.  Nothing more.  An excuse is not acceptable.

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 Thanks, thingy. I'm done

 Thanks, thingy. I'm done with this. I've never seen such obstinate insanity bef--

Oh wait, no - I forgot about Jacob Stein. Sigh.

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thingy: thanks for very

thingy: thanks for very complex and ingenious explanation. I'll make sure to keep it in mind if I'll ever find a place with these reflections, I will put my head in front of them and see from which window is it coming. I will not try to preserve my belief by not attempting to closely check the effect. This should wipe out any remains of doubts.
 

Unfortunately, the light patterns are just a drop in the sea of mysteries. My reasons are in a strange cooperation of a plenty of so-called miracles, they happen out of nothing and they don't avoid even my region (unlike tourists).
These effects are often a change in a structure of various objects, like glass, fruit, vegetables, even sandwiches... This change is so organized, that it's of a similar level with the famous hypothetical "Welcome to the mountains" writing. But not only that, around here happened very strange things, which resemble practically identic events in the world (like designed by one person). It involved a contacts with individuals, who had never been on the place before (like a meditational event), had no way how they could get there (it was a private event) and weren't seen anymore, and despite of that they knew what they are doing.
A thing which bothers me now, is a resemblance of these light reflections to other, similar effects, which however appeared directly within the glass structure. Not only crosses, distantly similar to these reflections, but also a famous hand imprint within a mirror in Barcelona or huge Madonna image in USA. One of people familiar with the Club had been there and confirmed this big glass window with a color pattern of madonna in its structure really exists. Or existed. For some reason, people replace these windows. Maybe they just want to see through. These effects, as I mentioned, remains even if the glass is cut out and transported. Scientists just managed to make the image disappear temporarily when they put a glass layers apart. I always thought, that a glass is very stable and inert material, that it doesn't undergo any sudden changes of structure, and if yes, that these deep structural changes won't be a like a human hand with a papilary lines. (don't worry, no hole from a nail Smiling )

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Luminon wrote:I always

Luminon wrote:

I always thought, that a glass is very stable and inert material, that it doesn't undergo any sudden changes of structure, and if yes, that these deep structural changes won't be a like a human hand with a papilary lines. (don't worry, no hole from a nail Smiling )

Actually, glass is only a very viscous semi-solid. That's why if you look at extremely old panes of glass (as opposed to stained glass, which is made of small pieces), you'll see distortion and slight ripples as the glass has very, very slowly flowed downward in the middle.

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BMcD wrote:Actually, glass

BMcD wrote:

Actually, glass is only a very viscous semi-solid. That's why if you look at extremely old panes of glass (as opposed to stained glass, which is made of small pieces), you'll see distortion and slight ripples as the glass has very, very slowly flowed downward in the middle.

There's quite the controversy about that. Although glass is an amorphous solid, there seems to be more evidence pointing to the original pouring process causing the ripples. The Wikipedia article Glass has a bit on it, with references. Until I checked it out, I had that belief, too. And it was a science teacher who told me!

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HisWillness wrote:BMcD

HisWillness wrote:

BMcD wrote:

Actually, glass is only a very viscous semi-solid. That's why if you look at extremely old panes of glass (as opposed to stained glass, which is made of small pieces), you'll see distortion and slight ripples as the glass has very, very slowly flowed downward in the middle.

There's quite the controversy about that. Although glass is an amorphous solid, there seems to be more evidence pointing to the original pouring process causing the ripples. The Wikipedia article Glass has a bit on it, with references. Until I checked it out, I had that belief, too. And it was a science teacher who told me!

Really? I learned about it from my grandfather, who was a master glaizer. Guess you learn something new every day.

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BMcD wrote:Really? I learned

BMcD wrote:

Really? I learned about it from my grandfather, who was a master glaizer. Guess you learn something new every day.

Check out the evidence and see what you think. I'm not a materials scientist, so obviously I can't comment with any real authority.

On a related note, isn't it amazing how easy it is to discuss things when people have an open mind? Instead of "My grandfather was a master glazier, SO I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE A LOSER!", it's "Huh. I guess I'll check that out."

Like night and day.

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Luminon wrote:In the case of

Luminon wrote:

In the case of lightning, there's hard to distinguish, if it is a God's miracle, or simply a natural thing.
However, there are miracles, which can't be explained by common causes.
One of my favorite are light patterns on buildings. They look like that (Berlin, 2001)

and you see, they are like X-shaped crosses in circles, or similar. This photo  of such a light crosses was taken last year in a town about 4 kilometers from my home. Several months later, the same light patterns appeared in another near town, but this time bigger and much more shining. Unfortunately, nobody of people going along had  a camera at the moment, but there were many witnesses, wondering what the hell it is on the wall of a supermarket.
These specific light patterns appears all around the world (USA, Japan, Germany, for example) for years, and there is no scientific explanation for them. People, who had seen them, says, that there was no light source around (the wall was in shade, or sun was clouded) and no reflexive surface anywhere in sight. They sometimes stays on place for weeks, sometimes only for minutes, before they disappear. This is, in my opinion, more mysterious than a lightning.
There is no reason why anyone would project such effects on walls for years, everywhere in the world, there's no additional message besides of that.
What do you guys think?

omfg, Luminon!  They're not crosses, THEY'RE ALIENS!!!

Alien Images Appear On Wall In Western Canada
Some Believe Images Are Just Reflection From Window


CALGARY, Alberta -- Some believe aliens have landed in western Canada after seeing strange reflections appear almost nightly on the wall of a Calgary home.

"I looked out and I thought, 'Oh my gosh, I've lost my mind,'" resident Karen Henuset said of the first time she saw the specters. "So I asked our nanny to come and take a look at this, and the hair on her arms just stood straight up."

It's as "clear as day. You see two eyes on each of them, they both have this little thing over their head. It's a little weird," said resident Reid Henuset.

A neighbor said he believes the image is a reflection off of a window. And it only happens every afternoon between 4:30 p.m. and 6 p.m.

The only sure way the image goes away -- clouds.

Although some adults may be skeptics, ask the neighborhood kids what they think and the answer is unanimous.

"There's aliens, real-life aliens on a wall," one unidentified girl said. "No one believes us."

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...

Wow, that's amazing!

Quote:
A neighbor said he believes the image is a reflection off of a window. And it only happens every afternoon between 4:30 p.m. and 6 p.m.
The neighbor should put the head in front of the reflection. If it's really a reflection, he could see from which window it is, and then check, if it appeared out of nowhere, or if that window is newly replaced, which caused the effect. Dunno how you, but I'd like to have such a window too, I'd never consider such a reflection naturally possible. 
Probably aliens got bored with scepticists, who consider all their projected light patterns as a natural effect, and they currently project this light pattern. Similar thing happened with crop circles, they were originally circular, and scepticists said it's caused by wind whirls or mating hedgehogs, so these crop images suddenly started to appear with many sharp edges and extremely precise and complicated geometrically-mathemathic patterns. Always during a single night.

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Luminon wrote:Wow, that's

Luminon wrote:

Wow, that's amazing!

Quote:
A neighbor said he believes the image is a reflection off of a window. And it only happens every afternoon between 4:30 p.m. and 6 p.m.
The neighbor should put the head in front of the reflection. If it's really a reflection, he could see from which window it is, and then check, if it appeared out of nowhere, or if that window is newly replaced, which caused the effect. Dunno how you, but I'd like to have such a window too, I'd never consider such a reflection naturally possible. 
Probably aliens got bored with scepticists, who consider all their projected light patterns as a natural effect, and they currently project this light pattern. Similar thing happened with crop circles, they were originally circular, and scepticists said it's caused by wind whirls or mating hedgehogs, so these crop images suddenly started to appear with many sharp edges and extremely precise and complicated geometrically-mathemathic patterns. Always during a single night.

Luminon, when did you get your last CAT scan?

 

Heh. Fucking Calgarians. Always losing their shit.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Kevin R Brown wrote:Luminon,

Kevin R Brown wrote:
Luminon, when did you get your last CAT scan?
Never. Why, should I? (yeah, that was a rethoric question too)
Should I accept your stances to appear rational in your opinion? Well, I wouldn't then be really rational, just following the gospel of Kevin R Brown. So far, I do just what anyone else would do on my place. My place, my identity is almost unique and requires an unique approach, in order to maintain rationality as such.
And who knows, maybe, by time I'll attract enough of  attention and controversy to be invited to one of RRS shows.


 

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Luminon wrote:Wow, that's

Luminon wrote:

Wow, that's amazing!

Quote:
A neighbor said he believes the image is a reflection off of a window. And it only happens every afternoon between 4:30 p.m. and 6 p.m.
The neighbor should put the head in front of the reflection. If it's really a reflection, he could see from which window it is, and then check, if it appeared out of nowhere, or if that window is newly replaced, which caused the effect. Dunno how you, but I'd like to have such a window too, I'd never consider such a reflection naturally possible. 
Probably aliens got bored with scepticists, who consider all their projected light patterns as a natural effect, and they currently project this light pattern. Similar thing happened with crop circles, they were originally circular, and scepticists said it's caused by wind whirls or mating hedgehogs, so these crop images suddenly started to appear with many sharp edges and extremely precise and complicated geometrically-mathemathic patterns. Always during a single night.

And then the guys who made many of them in Britain introduced themselves and revealed how they did it...

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jcgadfly wrote:Luminon

jcgadfly wrote:
Luminon wrote:

Wow, that's amazing!

Quote:
A neighbor said he believes the image is a reflection off of a window. And it only happens every afternoon between 4:30 p.m. and 6 p.m.
The neighbor should put the head in front of the reflection. If it's really a reflection, he could see from which window it is, and then check, if it appeared out of nowhere, or if that window is newly replaced, which caused the effect. Dunno how you, but I'd like to have such a window too, I'd never consider such a reflection naturally possible. 
Probably aliens got bored with scepticists, who consider all their projected light patterns as a natural effect, and they currently project this light pattern. Similar thing happened with crop circles, they were originally circular, and scepticists said it's caused by wind whirls or mating hedgehogs, so these crop images suddenly started to appear with many sharp edges and extremely precise and complicated geometrically-mathemathic patterns. Always during a single night.

And then the guys who made many of them in Britain introduced themselves and revealed how they did it...
  Well, hoaxers revealed their creations, but not for these most complicated pieces of sacred geometry, fractals, 3D illusions, golden ratio, and genial abstract art, always done wit perfectly sharp and precise edges, angles, and curves. Remember, all in one, dark night, without being noticed, leaving no tracks. Making fake crop circles has it's limits, and these were surpassed years ago.
Of course, crop circles aren't just in Britain, but in many other countries, like USA, canada, Japan, Russia, Afghanistan or Pakistan, on distant uplands.
A majority (about 80%) of the crop circles is made by hoaxers, but even they admit, that some pieces are beyond their possibilities. Like on this image:
http://www.ufomystic.com/wp-content/uploads/crop_circles1.jpg


The top-left piece can be fake, but the others? Not a chance.
 

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Luminon wrote:jcgadfly

Luminon wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:
Luminon wrote:

Wow, that's amazing!

Quote:
A neighbor said he believes the image is a reflection off of a window. And it only happens every afternoon between 4:30 p.m. and 6 p.m.
The neighbor should put the head in front of the reflection. If it's really a reflection, he could see from which window it is, and then check, if it appeared out of nowhere, or if that window is newly replaced, which caused the effect. Dunno how you, but I'd like to have such a window too, I'd never consider such a reflection naturally possible. 
Probably aliens got bored with scepticists, who consider all their projected light patterns as a natural effect, and they currently project this light pattern. Similar thing happened with crop circles, they were originally circular, and scepticists said it's caused by wind whirls or mating hedgehogs, so these crop images suddenly started to appear with many sharp edges and extremely precise and complicated geometrically-mathemathic patterns. Always during a single night.

And then the guys who made many of them in Britain introduced themselves and revealed how they did it...
  Well, hoaxers revealed their creations, but not for these most complicated pieces of sacred geometry, fractals, 3D illusions, golden ratio, and genial abstract art, always done wit perfectly sharp and precise edges, angles, and curves. Remember, all in one, dark night, without being noticed, leaving no tracks. Making fake crop circles has it's limits, and these were surpassed years ago.
Of course, crop circles aren't just in Britain, but in many other countries, like USA, canada, Japan, Russia, Afghanistan or Pakistan, on distant uplands.
A majority (about 80%) of the crop circles is made by hoaxers, but even they admit, that some pieces are beyond their possibilities. Like on this image:
http://www.ufomystic.com/wp-content/uploads/crop_circles1.jpg

The top-left piece can be fake, but the others? Not a chance.

I'll grant that I've never seen a very complex crop pattern-creation demonstrated by an admitted hoaxer. I've seen some that were good, but there are better ones with unknown origins.

Luminon wrote:

The top-left piece can be fake, but the others? Not a chance.

What constitutes "fake?" It implies that there's a distinction between man-made and otherwise; which is not a safe assumption, since they are most likely all man-made. Until you know otherwise, this is an argument from ignorance.