Regarding Presupposition [Trollville]

keremeikos
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Regarding Presupposition [Trollville]

The true presuppositions are as follows:

1) There exists no rational proof for or against anything at all. No such proof is available to individual humans. Therefore it is irrational to try to prove or disprove God's existence.

2) There is no such thing as an athiest.

3) Those who refer to themselves as atheists are actually just theists who in their heart have said, "No!" to the God they already know exists.

4) Therefore the question of God's existence and by implication responsibility to Him is not an intellectual question but instead a moral question (specifically shall I say, "Yes!" or shall I say "No!" to God).

Note ~ This post was originally in freethinking anonymous. The terms of posting there are impossible to achieve (the term I refer to is that no theist can post there) as all are theists. However I have moved this post in accordance with the forum leaders understanding of the terms atheist and theist.

{ACTUAL NOTE, FROM MOD: You won't defend your position like an adult? Then you don't get to play in our field.}


dead_again
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Your Kung Fu is weak. Many

Your Kung Fu is weak. Many have attempted arguments similar to these, and so far I don't know of a single attempt that hasn't been torn apart past the third or fourth comment.

Waits for Mattshizzle to post lolcats picture "Not this sh*t again"

Your god's silence speaks loud and clear


keremeikos
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This is not an argument. See

This is not an argument. See the title of the post.


magilum
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  keremeikos wrote: The

 

keremeikos wrote:
The true presuppositions are as follows:

Presuppositionalism, as far as I've seen, generally relies on some variation of TAG. That's, as far as I know, the commonly recognized justification for the position, but there could be others. What basis do you have to call yours, which I've never heard of, "true?"

keremeikos wrote:
1) There exists no rational proof for or against anything at all.

There's the view of what Bertrand Russell called "scientific truths." Whatever can be repeatedly demonstrated via some observable phenomena based on some theoretical model of how it works. Our daily lives are ruled by this practical approach to reality, so even if it breaks down, say, at some subatomic level where individual particles don't obey physical laws as we do at the macro level, this has no perceptible bearing on the human experience. I don't know your specific justification, since you merely asserted, but I expect it to come down either to a composition fallacy or appeal from ignorance. If your position held water, there would be absolutely nothing cohering reality together sufficiently for us to wipe our asses.

keremeikos wrote:
No such proof is available to individual humans.

This is begging the question, as it relies wholly on two undemonstrated points: that there is an ultimate reality which eludes us, and that there is potentially some conscious agent capable of experiencing reality on this base level.

keremeikos wrote:
Therefore it is irrational to try to prove or disprove God's existence.

With the acceptance of your criteria, there's no distinction between rational or irrational, and any logical inference becomes a stolen concept, and your particular reference to a god is special pleading.

keremeikos wrote:
2) There is no such thing as an athiest.

The distinction would be moot.

keremeikos wrote:
3) Those who refer to themselves as atheists are actually just theists who in their heart have said, "No!" to the God they already know exists.

And you show your biblically-rationalizing hand in the most awkward way possible.

keremeikos wrote:
This post was originally in freethinking anonymous. The terms of posting there are impossible to achieve (the term I refer to is that no theist can post there) as all are theists. However I have moved this post in accordance with the leaders understanding of the terms atheist and theist.

Right, based on your special presuppositionalist definition that no one recognizes. Also, that's not a note -- it's another assertion on your part, and you'll get no free pass on it.

 


magilum
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keremeikos wrote: This is

keremeikos wrote:
This is not an argument. [...]

And the kettle turns disdainfully from the pot.


Vessel
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keremeikos wrote: The true

keremeikos wrote:

The true presuppositions are as follows:

1) There exists no rational proof for or against anything at all. No such proof is available to individual humans. Therefore it is irrational to try to prove or disprove God's existence.

 

2) There is no such thing as an athiest.


3) Those who refer to themselves as atheists are actually just theists who in their heart have said, "No!" to the God they already know exists.

Being as that "there is no rational proof for or against anything at all", everything you just said can be dismissed without consideration. Thanks for your time. Bye.

 

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins


Hambydammit
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Quote: 1) There exists no

Quote:
1) There exists no rational proof for or against anything at all. No such proof is available to individual humans. Therefore it is irrational to try to prove or disprove God's existence.

Not so.  Your misunderstanding of the ontological status of induction is no threat to its objective existence.

Quote:
2) There is no such thing as an athiest.

What I really want to say is "Fuck off, and then read some of the site before you post this shit again."

What I will say instead is this:

Keremeikos, you have displayed an intense amount of ignorance about philosophy, etymology, and logic in just two presuppositions.  You would do a lot better to stop talking and listen for a bit.

 

Quote:
3) Those who refer to themselves as atheists are actually just theists who in their heart have said, "No!" to the God they already know exists.

Now I'll tell you to fuck off.

What an arrogant prick you must be to presuppose that you're 100% right and everyone else is 100% wrong when....

You just said there's no proof for god.

 

Quote:
4) Therefore the question of God's existence and by implication responsibility to Him is not an intellectual question but instead a moral question (specifically shall I say, "Yes!" or shall I say "No!" to God).

Seriously, you are one of the most arrogant pricks I've seen on here in a while.  This is fucking rich.  You're actually coming in here and saying, "Nobody knows anything about anything, so I'm right."

What a maroon.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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keremeikos wrote: The true

keremeikos wrote:

The true presuppositions are as follows:

1) There exists no rational proof for or against anything at all. No such proof is available to individual humans. Therefore it is irrational to try to prove or disprove God's existence.

Wrong. I can prove that I exist. I can prove that reality as I perceive it is reality as I perceive it. 

Quote:
2) There is no such thing as an athiest.

There is no such thing as a thiest. 

Quote:
3) Those who refer to themselves as atheists are actually just theists who in their heart have said, "No!" to the God they already know exists.

Those who refer to themselves as theists are actually atheists who in their brain have said "No" to the reality they know exists. 

Quote:
4) Therefore the question of God's existence and by implication responsibility to Him is not an intellectual question but instead a moral question (specifically shall I say, "Yes!" or shall I say "No!" to God).

(First, you shouldn't use therefor as this is not a conclusion following from your numbered assertions above. In fact you have just posted a string of non-sequiturs.) 

Now, in what way is the existence or non-existence of an entity a moral question?  


“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins


keremeikos
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I will not engage in

I will not engage in argumentation for proof of presuppositions as it is impossible to do.

 

You have made your moral choice.


magilum
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keremeikos wrote: I will

keremeikos wrote:

I will not engage in argumentation for proof of presuppositions as it is impossible to do.

 

You have made your moral choice.

*Claps dust from hands* 


wavefreak
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keremeikos wrote: The true

keremeikos wrote:

The true presuppositions are as follows:

1) There exists no rational proof for or against anything at all. No such proof is available to individual humans. Therefore it is irrational to try to prove or disprove God's existence.

Some things are possible to prove. Come over to my place. I'll prove bashing you in the head with a rock hurts. Some humans are dead, why else grave robbers? 1 + 1 = 2. But for the moment let's assume this first statment is true.

Quote:

2) There is no such thing as an athiest.

Well, by your first presuppostion, you can't prove anything, including the non-existence of atheists

Quote:

3) Those who refer to themselves as atheists are actually just theists who in their heart have said, "No!" to the God they already know exists.

You can't prove that theists exist either, according to #1

Quote:

4) Therefore the question of God's existence and by implication responsibility to Him is not an intellectual question but instead a moral question (specifically shall I say, "Yes!" or shall I say "No!" to God).

Prove the existence of moral questions without violating #1

 

Shall I continue or have I made my point?


Hambydammit
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Quote: I will not engage in

Quote:
I will not engage in argumentation for proof of presuppositions as it is impossible to do.

So... um... you're wasting our bandwidth... why?

Quote:
You have made your moral choice.

Well, I've made many choices that have involved questions of morality.  My observation that induction is valid is not moral, but logical.

Thanks for playing.  Have fun with your Buddy Jesus doll and self crucifiction play set.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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keremeikos
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Again the above is not an

Again the above is not an argument attempting to create a proof, see the title.

Read above again and please read the title of this post first.


magilum
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keremeikos wrote: Again

keremeikos wrote:

Again the above is not an argument attempting to create a proof, see the title.

Read above again and please read the title of this post first.

I see. Anything else you'd like to assert on the basis of failed reasoning?


wavefreak
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keremeikos wrote: Again

keremeikos wrote:

Again the above is not an argument attempting to create a proof, see the title.

Read above again and please read the title of this post first.

 

Aw fuck. I didn't understand what you meant. You are so right. I'll follow you to hell and back. Where do I send the money? 


keremeikos
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Lastly I will repeat myself

Lastly I will repeat myself this time.

There is no argumentation attempting a proof involved. It is impossible for one to exist (see above).


Vessel
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magilum wrote: keremeikos

magilum wrote:
keremeikos wrote:

Again the above is not an argument attempting to create a proof, see the title.

Read above again and please read the title of this post first.

I see. Anything else you'd like to assert on the basis of failed reasoning?

Referring to that crap as any kind of reasoning is being overly generous.

I have a feeling it won't be long before we are in the fertile fields of Trollville. 

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins


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 *Note - this isn't from

 

*Note - this isn't from lolcats - it's a picture of one of my cats (Miss Callie) and I added the text.

 

Actually he is right that there's no such thing as "athiest" - as there is no such quality as "athi" so there is no way to be "athiest," or the "most athi."

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


magilum
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keremeikos wrote: Lastly I

keremeikos wrote:

Lastly I will repeat myself this time.

There is no argumentation attempting a proof involved. It is impossible for one to exist (see above).

It's axiomatic that you're a dick-nose.


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keremeikos wrote: Lastly I

keremeikos wrote:

Lastly I will repeat myself this time.

There is no argumentation attempting a proof involved. It is impossible for one to exist (see above).

You're just claiming that the statements you opened with are true.

You expect us to believe them on your say-so alone?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


dead_again
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Let's do some equal

Let's do some equal reasoning:

keremeikos wrote:

The true presuppositions are as follows:

1) There exists no rational proof for or against anything at all. No such proof is available to individual humans. Therefore it is irrational to try to prove or disprove a fairy's existence.

2) There is no such thing as an afairiest.

3) Those who refer to themselves as afairiests are actually just theists who in their heart have said, "No!" to the fairies they already know exists.

4) Therefore the question of the fairies existence and by implication responsibility to fairies is not an intellectual question but instead a moral question (specifically shall I say, "Yes!" or shall I say "No!" to fairies).

This is what your logic looks like. Silly, isn't it? As I stated in my first response,

YOUR KUNG FU IS WEAK!!!

Your god's silence speaks loud and clear


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keremeikos: If you come

keremeikos:

If you come back, would you mind answering a question for me? (not this one, though you can answer it before you answer the other question, which is the actual question I would like an answer to)

What is the intent behind posting this? Surely, if you are going to take the time to actually type out sentences and post them on a forum you have some reason for doing so. I would have to guess you had some hope of accomplishing something as I can't understand why anyone would waste their time in such a manner with no 'goal'. is it entertaining to you? Did you think something like this would be eye opening to someone? Did you just want to try and irritate people? I'm really interested.   

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins