"23 Minutes in Hell"

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"23 Minutes in Hell"

Here's a man who wrote a book about his experience in hell. Apparently he spent 23 minutes there before God pulled him out. He believes that hell is located beneath the earth's surface because he talks about "people up on the surface of the earth." His book titled, "23 Minutes in Hell" is on the Christian book list at Beliefnet.com.

Here's some excerpts from the book by Bill Weise:

 

Author Bill Weise wrote:
I pleaded for mercy, but they had none—absolutely no mercy. They seemed to be incapable of it. They were pure evil. No mercy existed in that place. Mercy is from God in heaven.

The mental anguish I felt was indescribable. Asking for mercy from such evil only seemed to heighten their desire to torment me more.

I was conscious of the fact that there was no fluid coming from my wounds. No blood, no water, nothing. At this time, I did not stop to wonder why. I was extremely nauseous from the terrible, foul stench coming from these creatures. It was absolutely disgusting, foul, and rotten. It was, by far, the most putrid smells I have ever encountered. If you could take every rotten thing you can imagine, such as an open sewer, rotten meat, spoiled eggs, sour milk, dead rotting animal flesh, and sulfur, and magnify it a thousand times, you might come close. This is not an exaggeration. The odor was actually extremely toxic, and that alone should have killed me.

Instinctively, I just knew that some of the things I experienced were a thousand times worse than what would be possible on the earth's surface—things such as the odors mentioned, the strength of the demons, the loudness of the screams, the dryness, and the loneliness felt.

Somehow I managed to move a bit and dragged myself across the ground toward the barred door. I couldn't see, but I remembered the direction of the door that had been left open. I finally made it to the door and crawled out of the cell. Apparently, the creatures allowed me to crawl out without stopping me.

As soon as I exited the cell, my first instinct was to get as far away as possible. Again, I desperately wanted to run. All I could think of was to get up onto my feet. However, every move to get up took great effort. I remember wondering, Why is this so difficult? After tremendous exertion, I was finally able to stand. I was thoroughly exhausted and, at the same time, very frustrated at how hard simple movement had become. Although I was now outside the cell, I could not run, and fear continued to bind itself around me as a snake constricting its prey.

I was horrified as I heard the screams of an untold multitude of people crying out in torment. It was absolutely deafening. The terror-filled screams seemed to go right through me, penetrating my very being. I once heard about a television special where a news reporter spent the night in a prison just to experience prison life firsthand. The prisoners were crying, moaning, and yelling all night long. He stated that he couldn't sleep because of all the noise. This place where I now stood was far, far worse.

Through the panic and the deafening noise, I struggled to gather my thoughts. I'm in hell! This is a real place, and I'm actually here! I frantically tried to understand, but it was just so inconceivable. Not me, I'm a good person, I thought. The fear was so intense I couldn't bear it, but again, I couldn't die. I knew that most people up on the surface of the earth did not believe or even know that there was a whole world going on down here. They wouldn't believe it. But here it existed, and it was all too real. This place was so terrifying, so intense, and so hostile that it would be impossible for me to exaggerate the horror.

 

Question: If hell is below us in the earth, aren't the oil companies who drill for oil taking a chance on poking Satan in the head?

 

 

Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?


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beliversrule wrote: I will

beliversrule wrote:
I will spell my name however the HELL I like.  IDLE.  Really smart for someone who can't spell IDOL to screw with someone else and their spelling.  Jerk.

LOL

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Magilum I don't care who or

Magilum I don't care who or what your bored with, children get bored very easily.   If we go to Hell when we die yes I think we have caught it twice. Don't you have bad days? Well in Heaven you won't.  This certainly isn't Heaven!   There are great times we spend on Earth but they are gone in the blink of an eye.  How old are you?  Never mind I don't want to know.  But the older you get the faster things seem to have gone.  I can remember being a child like it was yesterday even though it was not. 

Believers have their hope in eternal life.  Non of us are saints and at least we have the guts to admit it and ask for forgivness so that we can live eternally with our creator. 

And what the crap is an ad hoc?

Have you ever heard of Howard Storm?  He WAS an avowed atheist until his near death experience showed him what would happen if he didn't change.

Look him up.  Don't say he made it up, that's a load of crap.  There are plenty of others, even people who have had NDE's with others (died at the same time in a lightening storm and were revived).

I am pretty sure it would take a NDE to get any of you to see the light.  Having Faith in something other than this world is just beyond your limited little selves.  Nothing on this planet just happened.  Not a car, plane, tv, radio, cell phone or us.  God created us and then we created our own mess here on Earth. 

God Bless you all.

And we have no evidence whatsoever that the soul perishes with the body---------Mahatma Gandhi


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beliversrule wrote:

beliversrule wrote:

And what the crap is an ad hoc?

Have you ever heard of Howard Storm? He WAS an avowed atheist until his near death experience showed him what would happen if he didn't change.

LOL Stop! Stop! *gasp* You're killing me!

Thor bless you too, beliversrule.

lol 

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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beliversrule wrote: I am

beliversrule wrote:

I am pretty sure it would take a NDE to get any of you to see the light. 

 

im going on 4 "N.D.E's" so far in my "Life"... so how many more do you think it will take? im willing to try this experiment ^_^

 

or will it forever remain a Tootsie Pop Paradox? 

What Would Kharn Do?


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I have know idea because I

I have know idea because I don't know you or what happened with you and because I am not God.  Just because you almost die dosen't mean your going to have a meaningful experience.  If God wants you to have one then it will happen.  Apparently he wants you to try to figure something out on your own.  Your not dead yet so so congrats you have another chance, you won the lottery four times,  woo hooo!!

 I have had a couple of close calls too, but apparently not close enough and I didn't get to see the things others have.  I would love to see it (without the actual dying right now because I have kids to take care of) thats why I have read numerous books on OBE's and lucid dreaming that can lead to OBE's.  My husband had a NDE but his scared him and he only spoke of it once to me and didn't give me many details.  He could have had many of them because de died several times in the hospital after open heart surgery, but this one was all he spoke of.

Whatever, again I am happy you can still breathe and hopefully your taking advantage of it by learning something everyday.

Blessings.

And we have no evidence whatsoever that the soul perishes with the body---------Mahatma Gandhi


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    I was dead, well

    I was dead, well clinically dead for a full 5 minutes, and I experienced nothing, no flash backs, no lights no god no nothing, just.....nothing, which I pretty much expected, and have you ever noticed that people of different religions and societies have different expeirences of NDE? Buddhist have their versions of the afterlife, so do hindus, taoists, etc etc etc. Hmm well most of the NDE that christians use come from christian societies. However they rarely if ever bother with other societies.


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Ah, ok.  I've settled down

Ah, ok.  I've settled down a bit.

First off, beliversrule, AmericanIdle is a play on words of American Idol.  He didn't misspell it.  He was intentionally making a pun.

Second off, this entire thread is about us poo-pooing the idea that someone claiming to have knowledge about the afterlife from a NDE.

Then you bring up Howard Storm?

Yeah right.  That quack claimed that reciting scripture in hell will chase off the demons?  What a joke.

No problem!  Us atheists go to hell we'll just start saying the Lord's prayer.  We'll be fine.

Despite the fact that you can't die, go to heaven or hell, then come back where you can die again according to the bible.  I've already pointed this out.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Kingdom9 wrote: Why is it

Kingdom9 wrote:

Why is it hard for some people to believe in God?

Why is it so hard for you to believe in Zeus?

Quote:
 

I would like to ask a simple question. What evidence is there that God does not exist? God meaning the Creator of all things.

 

1) You've got things backwards: You can't just assume that your god exists as the default position - what 'evidence' do you have that your god does exist?

2) "god" is an incoherent term

3) A 'creator' of the universe is an unnecessary hypothesis

4) our universe in no way points to a caring creator working towards its behalf, and the idea of a loving god who creates intelligent beings intended for hell obviously leads to a contradiction: a loving evil being.

5) here are 50 more reasons I don't have time for, but if you'd like to debate the matter....

 

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

Books on atheism.


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Well first of all I really

Well first of all I really don't care that I made a boo boo on my spelling on this site.  Second that "quack" was lucky that they were able to bring him back and so are the people he has told his story to so they know the truth.

And duh, the guy was making a pun.  I get it and I once again don't give a flying "insert your own word or words here". I don't think that is important in any way to the subject? Do you??

If you make it to hell itself I don't believe the Lords Prayer will help you out of that hole, not until you have learned your lesson kiddo.  This man wasn't meant to die and go to Hell or he would not have been given another chance.

 Now here is one point I am not sure of: the staying in Hell forever.  I am free thinking and not what you "people" would call a religious nut.  I can wrap my mind around us paying our dues in whatever Hell we may end up in and then moving on.  I believe God is good and that we are here to learn lessons.  What lessons, I don't know.  We will all find that out at the moment of death when everything will become clear to us.  After death I think we continue to learn and that if we do earn an all expense paid trip to Hell we may be there to learn better and then go on to a better place. 

The Bible.  It's God's word with revisions made by idiots on earth. 

Blessings

And we have no evidence whatsoever that the soul perishes with the body---------Mahatma Gandhi


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beliversrule

beliversrule wrote:

 

<snip>

...  I once again don't give a flying "insert your own word or words here". 

<snip>

 

Blessings

 

So how do you reconcile these two sentiments? 


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What ?

What ?


The Doomed Soul
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beliversrule wrote:  I am

beliversrule wrote:

 I am free thinking

 

havent seen any sign of this yet... maybe i need another NDE ^_^

 

beliversrule wrote:
  

and not what you "people" would call a religious nut. 

 

 

first, lol at "people"

second, WE decide if WE call you a religious nut or not... so allow me to be the first!

BeLIVER you are a religious nut 

 

beliversrule wrote:
 

The Bible. made by idiots on earth. 

Blessings

Ok, you got me.... i cant dispute that

What Would Kharn Do?


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beliversrule wrote:

beliversrule wrote:

Well first of all I really don't care that I made a boo boo on my spelling on this site. Second that "quack" was lucky that they were able to bring him back and so are the people he has told his story to so they know the truth.

Truth? How do you intend to prove that? I have a book full of people giving "true" accounts of seeing Fairies and Goblins. Even quite recently. Like the past 20 years. In America. Hello? Where's the fucking proof?

beliversrule wrote:

And duh, the guy was making a pun. I get it and I once again don't give a flying "insert your own word or words here". I don't think that is important in any way to the subject? Do you??

No. But I do think you acting (do you now claim to have been acting after I pointed it out to you?) like his pun was an accidental mispelling is funny.

beliversrule wrote:

If you make it to hell itself I don't believe the Lords Prayer will help you out of that hole, not until you have learned your lesson kiddo. This man wasn't meant to die and go to Hell or he would not have been given another chance.

So then you don't believe Howard Storm either. Why did you bring him up to support your beliefs?

Kiddo? I am a father of three. Kiddo is what I call my eldest who is 12. Don't belittle me.

beliversrule wrote:

Now here is one point I am not sure of: the staying in Hell forever. I am free thinking and not what you "people" would call a religious nut. I can wrap my mind around us paying our dues in whatever Hell we may end up in and then moving on. I believe God is good and that we are here to learn lessons. What lessons, I don't know. We will all find that out at the moment of death when everything will become clear to us. After death I think we continue to learn and that if we do earn an all expense paid trip to Hell we may be there to learn better and then go on to a better place.

What all-important things will we learn in hell? What's the point of hell? Revenge? Really. Think about if YOU were god. Would you create hell? And what would be the qualifiers for someone going there? Even if for only a limited time?

beliversrule wrote:

The Bible. It's God's word with revisions made by idiots on earth.

Blessings

The Bible. It's written by idiots on earth.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Well my oldest child  is

Well my oldest child  is 14 but that also has nothing to do with anyhting here.  Yes, I believe Howard's story.  He was not dead and finished he was only given a glimpse of what things could be like if he were to die on that day.

You pointed out to me a pun!  What do you really think that people aren't capable of thinking without your help.  That is part of the problem with your thinking.  You are so full of yourself (note the picture you have there, ha) that you can't believe a higher power created you!

 NDE's happen, there real, period.

 Don't ask for proof, that is just about the most stupid thing.  You can't prove that God is not your creator any more than I can prove he is.  Unles you can teleport back ...way back....that's the ticket, go for it! 

Blessings on your trip!

And we have no evidence whatsoever that the soul perishes with the body---------Mahatma Gandhi


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beliversrule wrote:

beliversrule wrote:

Well my oldest child is 14 but that also has nothing to do with anyhting here. Yes, I believe Howard's story. He was not dead and finished he was only given a glimpse of what things could be like if he were to die on that day.

Then why do you disbelieve in his story of his visit to hell where he quoted scripture and the demons left him alone?

beliversrule wrote:

You pointed out to me a pun! What do you really think that people aren't capable of thinking without your help. That is part of the problem with your thinking. You are so full of yourself (note the picture you have there, ha) that you can't believe a higher power created you!

Actually I have always had self-esteem problems. I always doubt myself. Maybe that's what led to me doubting the crap that I was indoctrinated in from birth and realized is was bogus.

And WOW. What's with the comment about my avatar? I'm being egotistical about showing a picture of myself? If you want to see a much more flattering picture of me just shoot me an email. Of course I'm going to pick a picture of myself where I don't look like total ass. Would you rather me snap a quick pic of myself after a drinking binge and before I've even combed my hair? Don't be an idiot. Like you keep saying, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

beliversrule wrote:

NDE's happen, there real, period.

Really? Dreams happen too. Does that make them real? Or just figments of our imagination?

beliversrule wrote:

Don't ask for proof, that is just about the most stupid thing. You can't prove that God is not your creator any more than I can prove he is. Unles you can teleport back ...way back....that's the ticket, go for it!

Blessings on your trip!

"Don't ask for proof" LOL Of course asking for proof in something so serious as an eternity in everlasting fire is completely "the most stupid thing".

The burden is not on me to prove that god is not my creator. The burden is on YOU!

You can't prove that Ra is not your creator.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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The Doomed Soul

The Doomed Soul wrote:
beliversrule wrote:

 I am free thinking

 

havent seen any sign of this yet... maybe i need another NDE ^_^

 

Yes I think you do.

 

beliversrule wrote:
  

and not what you "people" would call a religious nut. 

 

 

first, lol at "people"

second, WE decide if WE call you a religious nut or not... so allow me to be the first!

BeLIVER you are a religious nut 

 

That's OK. Your just a plain nut.

 

beliversrule wrote:
 

The Bible. made by idiots on earth. 

Blessings

Ok, you got me.... i cant dispute that

 

Tisk, tisk something is left out there.

And we have no evidence whatsoever that the soul perishes with the body---------Mahatma Gandhi


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When did I say I did not

When did I say I did not believe him??  He was brought back to life.  Don't you get that.  If mercy was not shown to him when he called upon God and he had not come back he would have spent some more time (I don't  know how much because I am not God) in the Hell that he experienced that day.  How can this be confusing to you.  Personally I would rather not spend any time in that place, hence the Jesus died for our sins and will forgive you if you believe in him and ask.

 I see by your post that you were apparently forced into religion when you were young.  I am sorry for that.  That could very well be a large part of why you have so much against it now.  That didn't happen to me.  I went when I wanted to and was allowed to come to my own decisions about going and where.  I went to several churches and don't think it matters which one a person goes to, it's just faith that counts.  I dont' think a person even needs to go to church.  I have not been in YEARS.  I think every believer has God in his house and they don't have to go to church to talk to him. 

 I have no burden on me to prove anything to you.  I know it will all be shown to you on the day you die (I mean die, die, instead of being brought back by a good medical team).  

 Dreams.  Have you done any reading about what dreams really could be?  I am not taking any time to go into that.  If you can't grasp the concept of God then you won't get that either.

I believe in lots of things. God, OBE, NDE, ghosts(boo), many, many things.  I have fun, read and enjoy and learn about the many things there are out there during this short life here on earth, without offending my creator. Or when I do I at least ask for a bit of forgiveness! I study about religions around the world because I think they are all valid in one way or another.  There are lots of theories out there about lots of things.  Try learning about some of them instead of just about your theory of nothingness.  You don't seem to believe in anything and seem really quite dull .

 I don't care what you look like. 

And we have no evidence whatsoever that the soul perishes with the body---------Mahatma Gandhi


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For those interested, none

For those interested, none of the Old Testament books are considered to be historical in any way.  It is a fact that the archaeology does not validate any part of the Old Testament - not a exodus, nor a conquest, not even a monarchy.  The exile is even in serious question.  The suspicion that there were some fundamental truths behind the folklore has been so thoroughly refuted by the archaeological and anthropological methods of modern historians and archaeologists that there is not a scholar today, that I'm aware of, that would dare attempt to publish a journal paper on the historicity of these narratives. 

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)


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beliversrule wrote:

beliversrule wrote:

When did I say I did not believe him??

Watcher wrote:

Then you bring up Howard Storm?

Yeah right. That quack claimed that reciting scripture in hell will chase off the demons? What a joke.

beliversrule wrote:

If you make it to hell itself I don't believe the Lords Prayer will help you...

beliversrule wrote:

He was brought back to life. Don't you get that. If mercy was not shown to him when he called upon God and he had not come back he would have spent some more time (I don't know how much because I am not God) in the Hell that he experienced that day. How can this be confusing to you. Personally I would rather not spend any time in that place, hence the Jesus died for our sins and will forgive you if you believe in him and ask.

It's not confusing to me. It's ridiculous to me. The bible itself says that you cannot die twice. And if the bible was "edited by idiots" then why did god give it to us in the first place if he wasn't going to keep it completely valid? Why give us a manual on how to live the way he wants us to live and then allow humans to fuck the manual all up?

That makes NO SENSE!

beliversrule wrote:

I see by your post that you were apparently forced into religion when you were young. I am sorry for that. That could very well be a large part of why you have so much against it now. That didn't happen to me. I went when I wanted to and was allowed to come to my own decisions about going and where. I went to several churches and don't think it matters which one a person goes to, it's just faith that counts. I dont' think a person even needs to go to church. I have not been in YEARS. I think every believer has God in his house and they don't have to go to church to talk to him.

It's a placebo, beliversrule. It is. It's a pacifer for adults.

beliversrule wrote:

I have no burden on me to prove anything to you. I know it will all be shown to you on the day you die (I mean die, die, instead of being brought back by a good medical team).

If you make a claim (I.E. God is real.) then YES the burden of proof is on you.

beliversrule wrote:

Dreams. Have you done any reading about what dreams really could be? I am not taking any time to go into that. If you can't grasp the concept of God then you won't get that either.

I can't grasp the concept of God? I believed in "god" for the first 30 years of my life.

What "dreams really could be?"? Are you saying that dreams really could be reality? Is so, then...well I need to stop talking to you now. You are too far gone into insanity for us to communicate effectively.

beliversrule wrote:

I believe in lots of things. God, OBE, NDE, ghosts(boo), many, many things. I have fun, read and enjoy and learn about the many things there are out there during this short life here on earth, without offending my creator. Or when I do I at least ask for a bit of forgiveness! I study about religions around the world because I think they are all valid in one way or another. There are lots of theories out there about lots of things. Try learning about some of them instead of just about your theory of nothingness. You don't seem to believe in anything and seem really quite dull .

I don't care what you look like.

I studied all types of religions and "mythologies" like crazy in my 20's. I was fascinated with them. I studied Norse mythology, Egyptian mythology, Buddism, Hinduism, Islam, etc., etc., etc.

And this statement,"Try learning about some of them instead of just about your theory of nothingness." is EXTREMELY ignorant. I believe in a ton of things.

I believe in my family. My wife, my children, my parents. I believe in evolution. I believe that both of us are "great apes" closely related to chimpanzees. I believe that the Earth is 4.54 billion years old. I believe what the RRS is doing here. That religion is VERY damaging to humanity and MUST be confronted. I believe in compassion and kindness. In being a decent person and a productive citizen of my society.

How dare you call my beliefs a "theory of nothing". It shows great ignorance. Do I sit here thinking of nothing about my existence and life? The reality I am experiencing?

No, I'm thinking nothing, right?

"really quite dull" eh?

LOL Only someone who doesn't know me would say that. I'm quite the cut-up and oddball.

However, if it makes you feel good to personify me like that, then feel free.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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wavefreak

wavefreak wrote:
Blind_Chance wrote:

Hahhahah.

Can anybody tell me how I am supposed to suffer PAIN from even eternal fire if I am dead and have no body and NO nervous system ?

Is my soul made from flesh then ?

Ooh so many questions based on your superstition !

Are you retarded Kingdom9 ?

Get HELL out of here! I want it on Mars !

 

Clearly it is your spirit that suffers. And in the same way that an amputee has phantom pain from a missing limb, you have "memories" of your body engulfed in pain.

 

Duh!

I would like to remind you that amputees are alive...Memories are your brain cells...

Proof that your spirit exists.

Proof that your heaven and hell exist.

Proof that your God exists.

Proof one of above and I will buy you a beer and convert myself to Christianity*

 

*As soon as I convince Santa that Pink Unicorn will do no harm to him for forcing Elves into Christmas Eve slavery.

 Edit/PS

What the Hell ! I will buy you two beers !!

Ecrasez l'infame!


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Blind_Chance wrote:

Blind_Chance wrote:

 

I would like to remind you that amputees are alive...Memories are your brain cells...

Proof that your spirit exists.

Proof that your heaven and hell exist.

Proof that your God exists.

Proof one of above and I will buy you a beer and convert myself to Christianity*

 

*As soon as I convince Santa that Pink Unicorn will do no harm to him for forcing Elves into Christmas Eve slavery.

Edit/PS

What the Hell ! I will buy you two beers !!

 

Sigh.

I was for the most part being factetious.


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It's not confusing to

It's not confusing to me.  It's ridiculous to me.  The bible itself says that you cannot die twice.  And if the bible was "edited by idiots" then why did god give it to us in the first place if he wasn't going to keep it completely valid?  Why give us a manual on how to live the way he wants us to live and then allow humans to fuck the manual all up? 

That makes NO SENSE!

 It's called FREE WILL our free will allowed us to "fuck" things up.

beliversrule wrote:

 

If you make a claim (I.E. God is real.) then YES the burden of proof is on you.

 What, are you trying to be a lawyer? My Business Law classes taught me that but THIS IS NOT A COURT OF LAW.

What "dreams really could be?"?  Are you saying that dreams really could be reality?  Is so, then...well I need to stop talking to you now.  You are too far gone into insanity for us to communicate effectively.

Good God man pick up a few books that are out of your margin of safety! I didn't say they were reality, but don't you know anything about OBE and Lucid Dreaming? 

And this statement,"Try learning about some of them instead of just about your theory of nothingness." is EXTREMELY ignorant.  I believe in a ton of things.

How dare you call my beliefs a "theory of nothing".  It shows great ignorance.  Do I sit here thinking of nothing about my existence and life?  The reality I am experiencing?

No, I'm thinking nothing, right?

"really quite dull" eh?

 

So you don't believe the universe came from nothing?  BIg Bang?  Ehh?  That's the "crazy, insanity" that you are involved with!  The universe and everything in it came from a creator ( I don't care what name you call this creator. It's different everywhere and it does not matter).  Every single thing here is balanced perfectly your saying science works is true and proves that there is a God .  All those wonderful scientific theories out  were caused bu him and are kept the same by him.  Are all the basic facts about science changing (evolving), like gravity or chemical reactions , NO, NO, NO ,NO, it's stays the same.  HE made it so.  Yes we make discoveries, but they were always there, we just didn't know.  Lose our gravity here and   your ass and mine goes to outer space.  Things don't just happen from nothing.  If you leave things alone they decay, they don't get better and evolve to humans they break down.

Why do you insist on bringing in things like family? Things that have no reason to be in the conversation except to make it more personal and piss people off. 

And we have no evidence whatsoever that the soul perishes with the body---------Mahatma Gandhi


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beliversrule wrote:  It's

beliversrule wrote:

 It's called FREE WILL our free will allowed us to "fuck" things up.

Our free will allowed us to "fuck" up god's instruction manual on how we are supposed to live?  Actually not even my personal free will but the free will of a human that lived hundred of years ago that distorted god's message to humanity eventually involving millions of people and their ultimate fate for the hereafter?

beliversrule wrote:

 What, are you trying to be a lawyer? My Business Law classes taught me that but THIS IS NOT A COURT OF LAW.

What's the point?

beliversrule wrote:

Good God man pick up a few books that are out of your margin of safety! I didn't say they were reality, but don't you know anything about OBE and Lucid Dreaming? 

Yes.  Actually I have experienced both an OBE AND Lucid Dreaming.  I've read a large number of books out of my safety margin.  For example I was raised to believe literally in Noahs Flood and bought a book by the same name pointing out how impossible it was.  While I STILL believed.

beliversrule wrote:

So you don't believe the universe came from nothing?  BIg Bang?  Ehh?  That's the "crazy, insanity" that you are involved with!  The universe and everything in it came from a creator ( I don't care what name you call this creator. It's different everywhere and it does not matter).  Every single thing here is balanced perfectly your saying science works is true and proves that there is a God .  All those wonderful scientific theories out  were caused bu him and are kept the same by him.  Are all the basic facts about science changing (evolving), like gravity or chemical reactions , NO, NO, NO ,NO, it's stays the same.  HE made it so.  Yes we make discoveries, but they were always there, we just didn't know.  Lose our gravity here and   your ass and mine goes to outer space.  Things don't just happen from nothing. 

No, I do not think the Big Bang came from nothing.  It came from the singularity.  And balanced "perfectly"? lol  Cancer, HIV, UV radiation, STD's, etc., etc.  You think because we have evolved to our environment that our environment was "designed" for us?  Wow.

beliversrule wrote:

If you leave things alone they decay, they don't get better and evolve to humans they break down.

True.  In a closed system.  The Earth is not a closed system.  We receive energy from the sun.  That makes all the difference.  Plants photosynthensis using the Sun's energy, herbivores eat the plants, carnivores eat the herbivores, Omnivorse eat pretty much anything that's edible to them plant or animal which is why humans and pigs (among others) are so successful in most environments.

beliversrule wrote:

Why do you insist on bringing in things like family? Things that have no reason to be in the conversation except to make it more personal and piss people off. 

I didn't bring family into the discussion to piss anyone off.  I brought it into the discussion to point out what I do believe in.  I'm not some horned devil.  I'm a faithful husband and a loving father.  To say I "believe in nothing" is to say in an indirect way that I have no loyalty, no honor, and no obligation to those that depend upon me.  This is a mischaracterization.  It's an underhanded attempt to defame me.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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[underhanded attempt to

[underhanded attempt to defame me.

I don't know you I can't "defame" you.  There you go again thinking it is all about you.  The theory of a big bang is something from nothing that is what it is about. 

 Yes !! Good point!  How did that sun get jusssst in the right spot to help us there.  Little closer and everything burns up,  little bit farther out and we freeze.  Someone put it there. duh

Are links to youtube videos allowed here?

And we have no evidence whatsoever that the soul perishes with the body---------Mahatma Gandhi


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beliversrule

beliversrule wrote:

Yes !! Good point! How did that sun get jusssst in the right spot to help us there. Little closer and everything burns up, little bit farther out and we freeze. Someone put it there. duh

Because you declare it as truth we must accept it? How can you come to a place like this, a place that holds evidence as important as Christians hold Jesus, and offer nothing other than "this is what I believe therefore it is truth, DUH?" You seem to misunderstand the big bang, as well. There are several theories about the first moments of the big bang and not all of them say that it sprouted from nothing.


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Here I will link you to

Here I will link you to this but nobody will watch anything or the link will be deleted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYNw9NNpyec

 

That's all I have to say.  Besides your all jerks.

 Good Freakin Luck.

 

And we have no evidence whatsoever that the soul perishes with the body---------Mahatma Gandhi


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(on the Exodus not

(on the Exodus not happening the way it was described in the Bible)

wavefreak wrote:
I hate the word "certainly" when applied to such ancient archeology. It doesn't take too long to find references that contradict your assertion.

I don't know what wavefreak is talking about; is there any archeological evidence of a big community of Canaanites/Israelites in Egypt during the New Kingdom? 

Rook Hawkins wrote:
For those interested, none of the Old Testament books are considered to be historical in any way.  It is a fact that the archaeology does not validate any part of the Old Testament - not a exodus, nor a conquest, not even a monarchy.  The exile is even in serious question.

That's news to me; how does that explain all the Assyrian accounts like Sennacherib's account of his siege of Jerusalem? Both the Bible and Sennacherib's chroniclers agree that he besieged Jerusalem and that he eventually quit without conquering that city, though Sennacherib's chroniclers had an amusing Baghdad-Bob spin on that: keeping the city's king holed up in it like a caged bird.


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what are you saying about

what are you saying about our all jerks? Learn English. You're an asshat. What don't you get about we need actual evidence rather than just fucking assertions?

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beliversrule wrote:I

beliversrule wrote:

I don't know you I can't "defame" you.  There you go again thinking it is all about you.  The theory of a big bang is something from nothing that is what it is about. 

Yes you can defame me.  Not me in real life but my online personality.  It's a weak jab that you utilized when you realized you were losing.

It's all about me huh?  I'm the big egomaniac?  Which one of us thinks that a god made the entire earth for them?  Heck most theists think god made the entire universe for humanity.  What an ego is that?  The atheist position is infinitely more humble than the theist one.

The theory of the Big Bang is NOT something from nothing!  You are showing your ignorance here and are letting us see why you do believe in a god.  From ignorance.

beliversrule wrote:

Yes !! Good point!  How did that sun get jusssst in the right spot to help us there.  Little closer and everything burns up,  little bit farther out and we freeze.  Someone put it there. duh

What an ass backwards way of looking at things.  The sun isn't in the right spot for us.  Our planet is orbiting our local star within it's "habitable zone".  The earth is orbiting roughly 93 million miles from Sol.  That distance is called an Astronomical Unit or AU.  Sol's habitable zone is thought to extend from a distance of 0.95 to 1.37 AU.  So there's a bit of margin for error there.

Other suns have varying habitable zones depending on their size and luminosity.  The amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere of the planet in question makes a difference as well.

There are several billion stars in our galaxy alone.  On top of that there are billions of galaxies in the universe.  What is the chance that no terrestrial planets fall within the habitable zone of the star they orbit?

Are you kidding me?

The law of averages states that there HAS to be some.  Actually astronomers have already detected another planet that is believed to lie in the habitable zone of it's parent star.    And we've only discovered a few hundred extrasolar planets so far.

Get your head out of your ass, read a book yourself, and figure out which likelihood is greater.

That god exists and made the universe for Homo Sapiens?  Or that everything can be explained quite easily without invoking magic and that we are nothing to this universe.  We're a brief lice infestation on a tiny planet orbiting around an average ass star in a gigantic universe.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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lpetrich wrote: (on the

lpetrich wrote:

(on the Exodus not happening the way it was described in the Bible)

wavefreak wrote:
I hate the word "certainly" when applied to such ancient archeology. It doesn't take too long to find references that contradict your assertion.

I don't know what wavefreak is talking about; is there any archeological evidence of a big community of Canaanites/Israelites in Egypt during the New Kingdom?

I'm only taking issue with assuming certainty. The evidence suggests with a high probablity certain things, but I can't accept  with 100% confidence things that happened that long ago. 


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Anyone click that link and

Anyone click that link and see whoever posted that dumbass video was such a pussy that they disabled ratings and comments?

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beliversrule wrote: Here

beliversrule wrote:

Here I will link you to this but nobody will watch anything or the link will be deleted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYNw9NNpyec

 

That's all I have to say. Besides your all jerks.

Good Freakin Luck.

 

 

Why AM I a jerk ? Why these people here or there are jerks ?

Because they don't agree with you ?

I don't blame them...even your youtube "evidence"is just pile of shit told by your Christian "authorities".

“I believe”, “In my opinion” it is NOT evidence.

There is NO scientific evidence in that video at all but there is a lot of lies for sure.

"volcano is disaster" ?? - tell that to people who ages ago discovered that soil made after eruption of volcano is one of the best for crops.

Since then comparing car bomb explosion or volcano eruption with idea of Big Bang can be used as evidence AGAIST it ??

Empty rhetoric through WHOLE movie is NOT a evidence. You can keep it for churches and politics but not for science.

I really don't want even try to watch all this shit. 2 from 6 part is enough to make my belly hurt from laugh.

Ecrasez l'infame!


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I would like a question

I would like a question answered beliversrule.....how much closer should the sun be before it gets to hot for life? a few thousand kms? a few 100,000 kms? a few million kilometers?? how much distances because the earth's orbit isn't exactly a perfect circle, second do you know how many solar systems there are? In our part of the galaxy it's roughly estimated to be at just over 10 billion solar systems, as well the amount of galaxies it is estimated in over 100 billion galaxies, each containing an average of 10 billion solar systems.....can you EVEN graps the amount of solar systems and the possibilities here for a goldie locks zone? 1 in 10 billion chance for this solar system, take that in calculation for the mean time, what's 100 billion multiplied by 10 billion is what 1000000000000000000000. so what are the chances of a planet having the ideal conditions? If you have any brains...you know there is chance of there being more than 1 planet.


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lpetrich wrote: (on the

lpetrich wrote:

(on the Exodus not happening the way it was described in the Bible)

wavefreak wrote:
I hate the word "certainly" when applied to such ancient archeology. It doesn't take too long to find references that contradict your assertion.

I don't know what wavefreak is talking about; is there any archeological evidence of a big community of Canaanites/Israelites in Egypt during the New Kingdom?

Rook Hawkins wrote:
For those interested, none of the Old Testament books are considered to be historical in any way. It is a fact that the archaeology does not validate any part of the Old Testament - not a exodus, nor a conquest, not even a monarchy. The exile is even in serious question.

That's news to me; how does that explain all the Assyrian accounts like Sennacherib's account of his siege of Jerusalem? Both the Bible and Sennacherib's chroniclers agree that he besieged Jerusalem and that he eventually quit without conquering that city, though Sennacherib's chroniclers had an amusing Baghdad-Bob spin on that: keeping the city's king holed up in it like a caged bird.

Jerusalem and Israel are not one and the same.  At least, I should say, they were not always one in the same: http://www.journalofbiblicalstudies.org/Issue3/Short_Study/on_reading_the_bible_for_history.htm

There is another book on this issue, a monograph put out by Copenhagen International Seminar called Jerusalem in Ancient History and Tradition.  It is well worth the read for the price. 

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what a load of shit

23 minutes in hell is just another christian's attempt at using fear to convert or "save" all of us sinners. Regarding Kingdom 9 or whatever his name was, if you base all of your "proofs" of Gods existence on the bible, just know that the bible contradicts itself. The new testament and the old have different depictions and portrayals of christ. Although if you asked a christian about that, he would have some ridiculous explanation that doesn't even directly answer your question. 

Also, God is portrayed as the most loving and perfect thing we could ever imagine. But in Leviticus 24.16 verse 13 regarding blaspheming it reads: "The lord said to moses, saying: Take the blasphemer outside the camp; and let all who were within hearing lay their hands on his head, and let the whole congregation stone him."I don't know about y'all but that seems pretty contradictory to the new testaments portrayal of him. 

     Good ol' Bill Weiss rants on and on about the horrors and tortures in hell. But when you know that God is the one throwing your ass in the worst, most painful, agonizing, and miserable place so awful that not even our minds can begin to comprehend it all, you begin to question how the hell ANYONE could ever, ever, EVER deserve such agony. And what is up with satan? He was once a beautiful angel and after trying to overthrow god or whatever he did, he's now the most evil and foul creature imaginable that casually materializes in and out of hell to try and pervert and fool peoples minds and bring them to hell. come ON people!!!! For the last two milleniums, we have only been able to put forth our trust in a book written 100 years or so AFTER jesus's time. And since then we had nothing to rely on except other peoples words and views. It is ridiculous. My last word on this is that christianity really just gives people something to hope for, and more and more churches have seperated forming their own beliefs because its what THEY want to believe. Look at these "churches of christ" that have formed like 6 years ago and even have their own commercials on TV!

(I know my comment kind-of jumped around randomly on stuff, but hey, im 16, give me a break.)

Oh, and to Kingdom 9, (is that what it is?) i think that www.godisimaginary.com makes some very valid points regarding the existance of God. Keep in mind, i do not hate christians, i hate peoples inability to think for themselves. "What the majority believes is most likely to be true" is a christians way of rationalizing truth.


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Two thoughts:1. Wow, when

Two thoughts:

1. Wow, when this guy went to hell, he discovered his life had meaning after all.

2. If a sinful astronaut dies on the surface of Mars, does his soul go somewhere inside the planet Mars?

 


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Kingdom9 wrote: Christians

Kingdom9 wrote:

 Christians are simply those who humble themselves and believe in the truth of the Bible and follow the teachings of Christ. Smiling

This is not what Christian leaders tell new believers. They claim you can be saved with no knowlege of the bible, the stories of Christ or Christian doctrine. You just show up at a church, claim you believe(without any knowlege) and submit to their teaching about Christ.

How can one believe anything without knowlege?

How can you force yourself to believe?

Kingdom9 wrote:

Why is it hard for some people to believe in God?

Why is it hard for some people to believe in Santa Claus?

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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Kingdom9 wrote:The article

Kingdom9 wrote:

The article says, "A geological group who drilled a hole about 14.4 kilometers deep in the crust of the earth are saying that they heard human screams. Screams have been heard from the condemned souls from earth's deepest hole. Terrified scientists are afraid they have let loose the evil powers of hell up to the earth's surface."

 

Well you better force yourself to love Jesus even more so he won't send you to His eternal torture chamber for those who don't love Him very very much. I can't force myself to love someone who would torture people(even the worst criminals). So if you're right, I guess I'm doomed to the center of the earth.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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Kingdom9 wrote:To be honest,

Kingdom9 wrote:

To be honest, I believe hell actually exists in the center of the earth right now.

Two questions.

1. The interior of the Earth has been pretty well mapped with the use of seismic waves.  Each layer is known down to its density, consistency and composition.  Some sort of large cavern of fire and brimstone large enough to accommodate all of the non-christian people who ever lived should have shown up by now.  Where exactly within the Earth do you think that hell is and why was it not detected? 

2. The bible says that hell is inside the Earth?  Okay fine.  But it also puts the Earth at the center of the universe and says the stars, the planets and the sun are going around it...but it isn’t...and they don’t.  So what makes you think that the bible is really all that reliable a source in these matters?

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

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Weightlessness in Hell?

Rocas511 wrote:


1. The interior of the Earth has been pretty well mapped with the use of seismic waves.  Each layer is known down to its density, consistency and composition.  Some sort of large cavern of fire and brimstone large enough to accommodate all of the non-christian people who ever lived should have shown up by now.  Where exactly within the Earth do you think that hell is and why was it not detected? 

Did you know you'd actually be weightless at the center of the earth? All gravity forces of the earth would cancel, so you'd have a net force of zero. Funny that guy in Hell didn't mention this. So you're a science guy, in a weightless environment which way do the flames of Hell go, since there is no up?

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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beliversrule wrote:Here I

beliversrule wrote:

Here I will link you to this but nobody will watch anything or the link will be deleted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYNw9NNpyec

 

That's all I have to say.  Besides your all jerks.

 Good Freakin Luck.

All my jerks? Huh? I don't get it.

It appears that a petulent God results in petulent followers, too.

It's cool he took a Spiderwick Chronicles avatar, too. Nothing like a good pagan movie to spice up a conversation about God. You don't see many open-minded Christians these days.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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The Cross

To those mocking God, remember His grace will end at a day of His choosing.The cross is foolishness to those that are perishing.....Acts 16:31 you have been informed. Humble yourself while you still can.


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   Hey you, The Cross , of

   Hey you, The Cross , of bloody torcher,

Humble me GAWED, why ? I mean how ?   

  oh, I get it, believe, have faith in devil religion dogma like Xainity of separationism..... you are the enemy to love / heal , poor soul .....  I AM GOD , as you .... all is ONE .....  is that humble enough ????   


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So did he have a timer with

So did he have a timer with him or something?


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I agree with Kindom9 there

I agree with Kindom9 there is a God and that there is only one creator.  I go to a youth group every week and  one of the passages was on hell.  After the serman I was so happy that I am a follower of God, I pray that all of you people that do not believe in Christ that will come to know your God, and that you will be saved and I hope to see you guys in Heaven.  Hell is a real place, I don't want to see any of the non-followers that they do not go to hell.


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God_is_all_Power wrote:I

God_is_all_Power wrote:

I agree with Kindom9 there is a God and that there is only one creator.  I go to a youth group every week and  one of the passages was on hell.  After the serman I was so happy that I am a follower of God, I pray that all of you people that do not believe in Christ that will come to know your God, and that you will be saved and I hope to see you guys in Heaven.  Hell is a real place, I don't want to see any of the non-followers that they do not go to hell.

The sheer..ugh!!nes of this post is astounding.

Thank you for your totally baseless and factless post. I too went to a youth group, heard about hell, and was glad I was a christian.Here's the thing:you think that because likely you've been conditioned to. I'm guessing you were raised christian. Your 'salvation' is a product of geography, not faith. If you had been born in many other places of the world you would be telling us allah is the creator or the world is carried on elephants.

If you took a moment to step outside your brainwashed world, you would see the concept of hell is a scare tactic to make sure christians don't go straying. If you honestly believe we are all going to hell on this site for not believing, then you are an evil person. Do you completly agree that god would be right in eternally tormenting us for not believing in something we had no proof of? How hard would it be for him to say,'btw, I exist.' Then we would have no excuse if we decided not to believe in him. Instead, we are given thousands of religions to choose from and will suffer unimaginable torment if we get it wrong.That's your loving god?

PS-hope you come to know the Flying Spaghetti Monster.would hate to see you miss out on heaven.

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

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Have we had a "not verified"

Have we had a "not verified" poster here that hasn't been an asshat? Most have been drive-by preachers.

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God_is_all_Power wrote:I

God_is_all_Power wrote:

I agree with Kindom9 there is a God and that there is only one creator.  I go to a youth group every week and  one of the passages was on hell.  After the serman I was so happy that I am a follower of God, I pray that all of you people that do not believe in Christ that will come to know your God, and that you will be saved and I hope to see you guys in Heaven.  Hell is a real place, I don't want to see any of the non-followers that they do not go to hell.

My dear friend, Allah is the one, true god.  All christians will burn in hell.   I pray that you that do not believe in Allah will come to know your God, and that you will be granted into the Garden.  Hell is a real place and I don't want to see any of the misdirected christians that they do not go to hell.

Reject the blasphemous idea that Christ was not only a human but was part of god.  Accept Allah's merciful teachings and join me in the Garden (heaven).

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Watcher

Watcher wrote:

God_is_all_Power wrote:

I agree with Kindom9 there is a God and that there is only one creator.  I go to a youth group every week and  one of the passages was on hell.  After the serman I was so happy that I am a follower of God, I pray that all of you people that do not believe in Christ that will come to know your God, and that you will be saved and I hope to see you guys in Heaven.  Hell is a real place, I don't want to see any of the non-followers that they do not go to hell.

My dear friend, Allah is the one, true god.  All christians will burn in hell.   I pray that you that do not believe in Allah will come to know your God, and that you will be granted into the Garden.  Hell is a real place and I don't want to see any of the misdirected christians that they do not go to hell.

Reject the blasphemous idea that Christ was not only a human but was part of god.  Accept Allah's merciful teachings and join me in the Garden (heaven).

 

No, you're wrong.  Shiva is the one true god.  All muslims will burn in Hell.....


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God_is_all_Power wrote:I

Full Armor 6:10 wrote:

To those mocking God, remember His grace will end at a day of His choosing.The cross is foolishness to those that are perishing.....Acts 16:31 you have been informed. Humble yourself while you still can.

For some reason, the last people I would associate the word "humble" with  are christians, with their 100% certainties on the nature of reality based on mere assertions. Whereas atheists will always be the first to admit they don't know. But if you claim you do know, you need evidence to back it up, otherwise there's no reason to accept it. 

I'm just repeating what has been said a trillion times already on these forums, but without evidence, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that you just made it up. The burden of proof has to be on the one making the claim, otherwise I can say that I have invisible fairies living in my anus who are responsible for all the laws of physics, and if you can't prove me wrong, then you must humble yourself and believe me, before it's too late!!!

Wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first.