Force an End to Theism?

Samuel's picture

My usual blog space can be found at http://blog.myspace.com/aven_phoenix

Imagine I have a button right here next to me. A big, red, easy button. Hell, pretend it is an "Easy Button." With the word "easy" written on the top of it and everything. And imagine that if I did hit it, a little voice inside would go off and say, "That was easy!" - just like the commonly sold "Easy Button" does.

Then imagine that if I did press this so easily pressed button that something much more than a stupid electronic voice were to happen. Imagine that if I pressed it, all theism would end instantly.

Perhaps you'd be surprised if I told you I wouldn't push it. Some of my atheist friends were. Perhaps you'd be surprised that I wouldn't even be tempted to and that I would, as a matter of fact, fight to the death to prevent it from being pushed.

I hate theism. Pure rage boils every ounce of my blood against it. I want to end theism very much. However I want it to be through reason, not through force. I would not force anything on anyone, and by pushing that button - that's what I'd be doing. I would be forcing my choices on everyone else. I want them all to hear me out, but I will not so much as twist an arm to get someone to conform to my views. It is reason, courage, and freedom that will eliminate theism, nothing else.

I would force an end to some things - the things that try to force things on me or others. If the button were merely "automatically stop all religious murder" I'd push it. People don't have the right to take away the rights of others, that's the one thing they can't do - and the one thing I can apply counter-force to. I can force that kind of shit to stop. But religion is not defined as "forcing something on someone else." Although it often leads to that sort of thing, it doesn't have it. That isn't what religion is, therefore I do not hold within me the right to apply force against it - and neither does anyone else. If they think they do, then they'll have to get through me. I would apply the necessary counter force to stop them from pushing that button, to stop them from forcing their views on others.

I've said this a few times in the past and people against me and with me seem both shocked by this. I don't see why, my core value on everything always has been "everyone has the right to do whatever they want, so long as it isn't forcing something on or from another person." Duh. So don't be surprised. My hate for religion comes from my love for reason and freedom. It does not make any logical sense for me to toss those two aside just to end what I hate, if my love for those things are why I hate it.

Samuel Thomas Poling: Blog 105, Force an End to Theism?

Crazybassist03's picture

I completely and totally

I completely and totally agree. Very well written. I think a lot of people on this site would push that button, unfortunately.

Sapient's picture

So would you press the

So would you press the button if it gave everyone the knowledge, wisdom, and reasoning skills to see through religious belief on their own?

I would. I think you'd have to.

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

Samuel's picture

You can't possibly press

You can't possibly press that button and not be evil - that would be forcing something on and from others without their consent. You would be going into their heads and desiding for them what they should think and what they should be. You say you would have to? I would have to stop you, and at the cost of your life and my own if I had to. That is the ultimate evil and it will not be tolerated by any decent, rational human being.

But relax, I believe you misunderstood. If the button meerly granted them all an easy chance at reason, if it wrote it in the skies, if it founded several wise books - which might consequently end theism, then it may be pushed.

However this button is an instant change of all minds, by force. It is one man making the choice for all other men. And if you do not think that is evil or insane, the consider God actually being real. Of course, our atheism would still be justified because we don't know God is real, but imagine someone does have the proof of God's existance. And you would turn him away from that because you are suddenly oh so sure you have the right to do so, you are suddenly so sure no one out their might have rationality behind their belief - and consequently you'll never get to hear it.

But it makes no difference. My mother is theist, and she choses to be. My grandmother is thiest, she choses to be. My ex girlfriend is theist, she chooses to be. One of my closest friends is theist, she chooses to be. I have "witnessed" my reasoing to them all, I have identified the fallacy and I have offered a greater happiness than lieing to oneself, but they still chose to be.

I belief alcohol is irrational and I believe there are better ways to make yourself "happy" without those side effects. I speak against alcohol. I believe the KKK is irrational, and I believe there are much better ways to feel important and strong without hate and prejudice. I believe a lot of things like this, and I speak aginst them all but I will never, ever, force my will on them, so long as they do not do so to me or mine.

I dissagree with what the KKK says, but I defend to the God damn death their fucking right to say it. I dissagree with the use of alcohol but I defent the human liberty to get blind stinkin' drunk, as stupid as it may be.

I think theism is horrible, hell, I think all stupidity is horrible. But if a human being desides it, then the best I can do is try to reason with them. Anything else is contradictory to freedom. Anything is will not be tolerated. Anything else is bullshit. It always has been bullshit, and it always will be bullshit. It is tyranny. So you can give me liberty, or you can give me death. Don't tread on me or mine. Don't tread on the minds of me or mine, or the spirit of liberty will destroy you, and not quickly.

Do I sound angry? Good, I should. The only humane reaction to such insanity is rage. Nothing will be forced on theism. Not by violence, not by gunpoint, not fear or threat, not by a seemingly harmless little button. People have the God damn right to be stupid, or they don't have the right to be intelligent. You do not have a right to something if it is forced on you. To have the right to something it is nessissary to have the right to dismiss it. You do not have the right move it you don't also have the right not to. You don't have the right to smoke if you don't also have the right not to. Because then it an't a right, it's something forced on you.

And I swear to you all right now I would soon rather be theist, be a mental slave to my own stupidity, then be a mental slave to you. And if you so much as aver otherwise, God give you mercy. I sure as hell won't be.

Sapient's picture

I wouldn't press your button, but...

You said you think I misunderstood, I assure you I didn't. My version of the button doesn't force anything on anyone other than the ability to think more clearly. Should they choose to still believe, that decision would be up to them. Should someone actually have evidence of God, the button that I would press would only make that knowledge more clear for them (if possible). You speak about trying to reason with them, what I'm saying is, if you had the ability to give people the gift of understanding, the ability to reason properly, the ability to use logic properly... would you press the button? I would.

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

Zero's picture

Freedom

It all comes down to freedom.

I want mine. I would press "the button" only to protect my freedom. When religious people try to infringe on my human rights just because they have group-thought their way into believing that some human behaviour is "immoral" or "wrong" or whatever, fuck them: I'll press the button to defend myself and my liberty.

If the religious seriously just kept to themselves and did their own thing internally without spreading their disease of ignorance across the planet, which causes MILLIONS of people to die every year (STDs, War) not to mention the billions of human rights violations caused in the name of "god's will." Fuck them all, man. I'm tired of pussy footing atheists that want to sulk in a corner and live and let live...because it ain't live and let live, it's live and let die when it comes to religion. As long as the dying is going on, I'm going to hit the button...it's all about defense. Someone comes into your home with a gun and says he's gonna kill you because you are a "sinner," you pull out your .457 and blow the crazy motherfucker away. That's what the button means to me. That's it. If my freedom was safe, if my family and friend's freedom were safe, I'd leave the button alone...but it's not. The button had to be imagined because the problem is real.

..zero..
href="http://www.doubledoh.com" title="DoubleDoh Shirts" alt="DoubleDoh Shirts">DoubleDoh

darth_josh's picture

I love these little fantasy

I love these little fantasy games.

Push that fucking button or I'll slap off that lump that you call a head.

Theism wasn't their choice initially. We talk about this all of the time. We're born atheists. They've already been 'forced' to become theistic by their stupid (or ignorant) parents or some other snake-oil salesman.

You have an ethical responsibility to push the imaginary button or whatever means necessary at your disposal to abolish religious slavery. Also, you have an ethical responsibility to aid in the replacement of the secular benefits that the religion entailed after it's gone.

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.

Samuel's picture

Just to give all humans more

Sapient:
Oh, I see what you're talking about.
Just to give all humans more intelligence? Uh... Well, that isn't so bad, but don't be too hasty.
What if they don't want more intelligence?
Besides, that wasn't what the button did, but if it did just give more intelligence, I'd still be strongly skeptical to if we should push it. The answer would be know, but if we were just gifting the intelligence, who's to say they still don't have the power to turn it down and still decide to be stupid? I'd have to think about it. Therefore the answer is still "no, we shouldn't," because we're uncertain. If we should push Sapient's button should be up to debate.

Samuel's picture

"I love these little fantasy

"I love these little fantasy games.

Push that fucking button or I'll slap off that lump that you call a head.

Theism wasn't their choice initially. We talk about this all of the time. We're born atheists. They've already been 'forced' to become theistic by their stupid (or ignorant) parents or some other snake-oil salesman.

You have an ethical responsibility to push the imaginary button or whatever means necessary at your disposal to abolish religious slavery. Also, you have an ethical responsibility to aid in the replacement of the secular benefits that the religion entailed after it's gone."

What the hell?! Did you not even read what I've said?
So, let me get this straight, you would abolish people's rights to be slaves to their own stupidity, just so they can be slaves to YOUR choices for them? I'm just asking, because that sounds an awful lot like an evil, sadistic, freedom contradicting, illogical, piece of shit thing to want to do.

YOU have an ethical responsibility to realize people have the right to be stupid if they choose to be. You cannot force people to be intelligent if they don't want to be. And if you try, I will hurt you. Very, very badly. If you attempt to attack the rights of others through force, then I will do whatever it takes to end your shit. Am I clear? Be it button or violence, the idea of forcing a choice on another will not be tolerated.

Samuel's picture

"It all comes down to

"It all comes down to freedom.

I want mine. I would press "the button" only to protect my freedom"

Zero, good, you have the right idea. But remember what my button is doing, it is forcing away all religion without the concent of others. If the button was only COUNTER force, you know, forever preventing them from forcing anything on you, I agree, push the damn thing immediatly. People have the right to make choices for themselves, not others.

But my button is not counter force, it is forcing something on others, therefore, I believe you agree that that button should not be pushed.

Sapient's picture

still pushing...

Keep in mind we're an evolving species. Our intelligence makes us the species we are today, and one can reasonably deduce that we will get smarter. Considering this, if humans don't want to be more intelligent, maybe they should try being another species. But even those are evolving.

Can anyone name a species that is evolving to become less intelligent? I'm asking seriously.

P.S. I'd still push the button to give people the gift of reason, whether they want to continue to be unreasonable or not.

*waits for someone to call me a fascist again*

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

darth_josh's picture

fascist. Make him push the

fascist.
Make him push the button. lol.

Mr. Poling,
You said the button would end all theism. This by its very definition forces people to make choices concerning how to live their lives. You would be freeing them not only of irrational beliefs but also of the dogmatic influence that programs them NOT to question their beliefs. If there is no theism then they wouldn't have imaginary things to believe in right?
Something else:
If there is no theism then there is no atheism label. We would all just be people.
Push the damned button already.

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.

darth_josh's picture

"Can anyone name a species

"Can anyone name a species that is evolving to become less intelligent?" - Sapient

Umm. Well, there is your rednecked fence-leaner. It's an interesting creature. It has all of the other qualities of your normal fence-leaner but half the brain. Oddly enough, these rednecked fence-leaners reproduce at an alarming rate and each successive generation seems to allow more recessive traits to infiltrate the gene pool.

It is theorized that if the damned button were to be pushed that this species would simply blink out of existence due to its inability to sustain thoughts other than eat, drink beer, fuck, shit, and die. Apparently, if they are kept away from the preachers then they don't get the urge to fuck their sisters or livestock. They have to learn in order to function in society.

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.