"Don't Pray In Our School & I Won't Think In Your Church"

rationalmormon's picture

"Don't Pray In Our School & I Won't Think In Your Church"

How can you stop some one from praying? That's like stopping some one from "swearing" in their mind. It doesn't bother anyone or make anyone feel better except themselves. Now, if you force your class to pray, then that's like forcing them to "swear".

Most everyone has words that offend them. For some it's a religious word. For some it's a sexual word.

Personally, I'm not going to stop anyone from saying anything. You can say your words and I'll say mine.

I think that has more to do

I think that has more to do with teachers or anyone else leading a prayer for the class. There is a big difference between someone doing something by themselves and trying to get everyone else to do it too.

Randalllord's picture

Your argument is a typical

Your argument is a typical strawman fallicy we often hear designed to inflame the sensabilitues of even non-believers. We are not opposed to anyone believing or living out their fantisies/myths/religions. We are opposed to a school/government led prayer as that violates the first admendment of the US constitution in that it confers an official recoginition on a particular belief. I'm sure that as a Christian you'd see a problem if the school started off each mornig with a prayer to Allah, Vishnu, Apollo, Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca

Or what if every day they

Or what if every day they led the class in saying "We are all intelligent enough to realize that no god exists."

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team

rationalmormon's picture

agreed

agreed Randalllord, it's improper to have a government led ritual. I don't even want to see school led pledges to flag. That is completely messed-up; forcing children to devote themselves to anything. And we’re allowing our schools give our children to what, a piece a cloth?

Read the bumper stick I’m talking about, it’s in the RRS shop. It doesn’t say no led prayer, it says no prayer. That just doesn’t make sense. I say RRS should at least not sell irrational merch.

Sapient's picture

Quote:Read the bumper stick

Quote:
Read the bumper stick I’m talking about, it’s in the RRS shop. It doesn’t say no led prayer, it says no prayer. That just doesn’t make sense. I say RRS should at least not sell irrational merch.

It refers to teacher led prayers. duh. C'mon man.

- Brian Sapient


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In the schools defense they

In the schools defense they can't force children to say the pledge, but few people know this. However it is sort of like saying it is ok to have a school prayer just because you don't tell the students they don't have to pray.

BTW, no one told me I didn't have to say the pledge or the history or the meaning...

rationalmormon's picture

It's unclear

Well, the stick is simply too vague. Don't worry though, vagueness is used every time some one tries to sound right who isn't completely right.

And yeah, I up until Jr. High I though you had to pledge or you'd be punished (mostly because once I didn't pledge in the short time I lived in Utah Valley, Utah. My teacher asked me why, I said I didn't feel like it. And she sent to the principle's who told me I probably should just say it. But whatever, that's conservatives for you {I mean, I'm just assuming they were conservatives (but they also could have been pinkos! or nazis!)})

That's a joke.
-your friendly neighborhood mormon

No really dude it is federal

No really dude it is federal law. I think RRS did a show on it.

Basically if someone makes you they broke the law.

Also do you really think we'd put, "Don't led pray in our schools, but it is ok if you pray by yourself, and I won't led a lesson about science in your church, even though I can still think in my head there." on a sticker? That just doesn't work. I mean its kinda like "Support our Troops". What some really mean is "I support our troops because they are people who are in a bad situation, however I don't support our government because they got us into a war I don't approve of."

First Amendment

Typical, You sound just like some of my neo-conservitive freinds. Acting like your using logic and the constitution, but really just puffing hot air. Strawman is right! You say your trying to protect the first amendment I say your trying to bend it to your will. The first amendment clearly states freedom of speach, press, and religon. It does not metion at any time you have to think or tell you what to think, So the whole argument is a fallicy. Yur trying to tell people that if they give up there first amendment right you'll feel better about, and as an added bonus you won't come to our churches and insult us. Wow I don't feel inclined to listen to ignoret bumper stickers telling me to give up my rights.

PROUD  TO BE AN AMERICAN

 

Sincerly, An AmericanEagle Scout

 

P.S I pray at school frequently.  

Pledge

rationalmormon wrote:
agreed Randalllord, it's improper to have a government led ritual. I don't even want to see school led pledges to flag. That is completely messed-up; forcing children to devote themselves to anything. And we’re allowing our schools give our children to what, a piece a cloth? Read the bumper stick I’m talking about, it’s in the RRS shop. It doesn’t say no led prayer, it says no prayer. That just doesn’t make sense. I say RRS should at least not sell irrational merch.

 

WoW, Your right are schools are evil! How dare they instill American Pride in our youth! They should be teaching you can slack off and do nothing with your life, dont worry you can live off welfare. That's what they should focus there energy on/ not the 30 seconds it takes to honor the men and women that died to allow you to post your trash. But they did die so go ahead and keep posting.

Well Done

GeeMan wrote:

PROUD  TO BE AN AMERICAN

Good to hear... though it's not like you had any choice in the matter.  It's just the geographical landmass where your parents fucked, after all...

GeeMan wrote:Typical, You

GeeMan wrote:

Typical, You sound just like some of my neo-conservitive freinds. Acting like your using logic and the constitution, but really just puffing hot air. Strawman is right! You say your trying to protect the first amendment I say your trying to bend it to your will. The first amendment clearly states freedom of speach, press, and religon. It does not metion at any time you have to think or tell you what to think, So the whole argument is a fallicy. Yur trying to tell people that if they give up there first amendment right you'll feel better about, and as an added bonus you won't come to our churches and insult us. Wow I don't feel inclined to listen to ignoret bumper stickers telling me to give up my rights.

PROUD  TO BE AN AMERICAN

 

Sincerly, An AmericanEagle Scout

 

P.S I pray at school frequently.  

 

All too standard;  You read as someone who should pray at school less frequently and budget your time instead by attending an emotion control course, followed by a double header of grammar/literature.  The bumper sticker slogan is without a doubt referencing state sponsored prayer ( ala the UK or BC).

As already mentioned in this thread, the meaning of the phrase in no way implies you cannot privately pursue whatever fantasy you have constructed for yourself internally.  You deserve to be insulted, and are a model case for why it is less and less honorable to be an American.

P.S.  In what way does retreating to the fact that you're an accomplished cub scout further your case?

 

Sincerely,  a true patriot.

harleysportster's picture

The original pledge

The original Pledge of Allegiance did not have the word god in it. In god we trust did not appear on the dollar bill until the 1950's and prayer in schools is just another smokescreen that theists use to whine about persecution and toss about non-sequiturs.

For instance :

OMG ! There was a school shooting, we never had school shootings when children PRAYED in schools.

OMG ! There are teen pregnancies, we never had those when children PRAYED in schools.

OMG ! SEX ED CLASSES AND CONDOMS ! We never had those when children PRAYED in schools. (Odd, sex ed and condoms could very well solve teen pregnancies)

OMG ! KIDS SMOKING POT ! That never happened when kids PRAYED in schools !

Yada ! Yada ! Yada !

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno