Damn Right I'm Angry: Part Two

kellym78's picture

Read Part One 

The Jewish Aphilosopher   (Yeah - the A was intentional - figure it out)
 

 

Conflating Ayn Rand's objectivist philosophy, of which I am not a fan, with atheism before the actual article even begins is just the tip of the iceberg. His depiction of atheists is nothing short of bigoted and disgusting. He's "The Jewish Philosopher"? I can't even find the philosophy under the pile of steaming shit that he excreted onto his site. I'm telling you this up front only because you're going to need those hip-high waders and possibly protection for your monitor before reading further.

He starts off with the claim that we cannot define what we mean by god when we say we don't believe in one. I have yet to see a theist who can give a coherent definition of their god, and they do believe in it. Projection, anybody? He claims that we don't mind the concept of a creator (which we do, mainly because it has no basis in factual data), but that we're terrified by the ever-looming punishment awaiting us from his loving god, and so we just pretend he doesn't exist. Let's turn this around-I propose that it is you doing the pretending. There is not a shred of evidence to support your ridiculous beliefs in some anthropomorphic voyeur with sadistic tendencies, but you are so terrified of the fact that one day you and everyone you love will simply cease to be. So, you just imagine that you're immortal so you don't have face the truth about life-there is no higher purpose other than what you assign to your life; there is no afterlife and you'll never see grandma again; sometimes life just sucks so learn to deal with it.

Atheists are also "invariably highly selfish people" and it's "impossible to find a well-documented case of an atheist who was kind, honest, sober, and sexually responsible." Of course, he also tries to covertly pull out the communism card as well. Where the fuck does this guy get off? What kind of statistical data can you present for your claims, Stein? We are all mean, lying, drunken nymphomaniacs, right? Well, chew on this for a minute-you are a bigoted asshole who can only validate his own beliefs by caricaturing those of others. One would expect more from a descendent of a group that once faced the same kind of prejudiced rhetoric.

He believes that science has disproven atheism with quantum mechanics and the Big Bang. First of all, the only way to disprove atheism is to prove theism. That certainly didn't happen with either of those scientific endeavors. He says that we "apparently don't depend on any evidence." Again, can anybody see how theists tend to project the shortcomings of their belief onto us? We don't need evidence to suspend belief in the supernatural! It is up to you to present the evidence that proves the existence of your imaginary friend! Apparently, Stein is even worse with science than he is with philosophy, and that is impressive.

Stein should familiarize himself with a recent Barna study that I referenced in a previous blog post before he makes the claim that there is a "linkage between pornography and atheism" that is evident in demographic studies and the fact that "The expansion of the Internet has made pornography more widely available and at the same time atheism seems to be becoming more popular." The difference in porn consumption by christians (there are no studies to my knowledge that focus on Jews) is negligible at best. This is another survey on christians and pornography that refutes his point. The only linkage between atheism and pornography is that we don't need to pretend to not have sexual urges, and we don't need to repent after we watch it.

He reiterates his hypothesis about our denial of god in this way:

Many people, especially young males leading secure lives in developed countries, feel no need for the comfort of religion. Furthermore, they are attracted to a very selfish, self-indulgent way of life, an attraction perhaps encouraged by viewing pornography. Therefore, in order to remove any feelings of guilt, they simply deny the existence of any divine judgment or afterlife.

That's not a non sequitor or anything. (/sarcasm) The excoriation continues with the piece de resistance-my favorite quote in the whole article. I'll let you savor it.

Atheism is not a philosophy; it is a symptom of narcissism and hedonism. Calling atheism a religion is like calling alcoholism a religion. It's a bad choice, a moral failing, perhaps a disease.

Now, for all of the criticism that we take for making the claim that theism should be considered a mental disorder, at least in some cases, we make the exception for the average person with the disclaimer that belief in god is still delusional, it just may not be causing that person any hardship at the present time. Here, we have a blanket statement on the moral character of every atheist. Not only does he clearly have no evidence to support his claim, but his false analogy is fallacious nonsense. Not to mention ignorant, asinine, and absolutely disgusting. If his assertion is true, why are less atheists in prison than our population would warrant? Why are atheistic societies healthier and have less violence and crime? When was the last time you saw an atheist suicide bomber, Stein?

His bigoted moronicism leads him to the conclusion that we deny reality, science confirms religion, and for the icing on the cake-atheism is akin to an addiction. If this is the product of "loving homes of an Orthodox Jewish community," I'll pass. The "brutal violence going on in secular neighborhoods" is an assertion unsupported by any factual evidence and apparently just pulled out of his ass along with the rest of this post. Have you ever been to Israel, Stein? I hear it's really peaceful there.

I try to limit my responses to more intellectual criticism and avoid this type of argument. Even D'Souza has never elicited a response like this one, but these two men are the personification of ignorant bigotry. Their vitriolic rhetoric exemplifies the stigma that atheists in this society still face, but ultimately, it says much more about their character than it does ours. And yet, they wonder why we seem angry.

Everybody's monitors ok?

 


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This piece is part of a year long series (ends Oct 31, 2008) that Kelly of the Rational Response Squad will be writing to address theist talking heads in the media. Kelly is a Psychology major, co-host of the RRS Radio show, and has been featured on ABC debating Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort. All articles may be reprinted in any major media publication or any blog. All articles will be submitted by Kelly or an assistant to the major media outlet that initially published the story as well as to the author of the original piece(when possible). Reprints are encouraged in blogs and must link to source. Reprints in media will be thanked in our book, so please alert us if you repost any story. Media outlets may shorten articles if necessary without removing context. Upon completion, a book and documentary will be made about the year (ending Oct. 31, 2008) and our plight to have dishonest argumentation countered with rational and factual answers in the press. If you would like Kelly to address any major media story from a theist talking head, please post a link to the article in her blog. We welcome messages from leading atheists asking us to refute stories attacking them and their views. At the end of the year the writings will be given some bulk, some supporting citations, and edits from a publisher to be compiled in a book. The book will include a documentary DVD shot from Sapient's vantage point as he works alongside Kelly, asking her questions about the project as it moves along.

Atheist Books

Sapient's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: Hot

Jacob Stein wrote:
Hot video clip featuring underage dancing girls, to distract the atheist infidels.

That turns you on?  I thought that was only Catholic Priests that got down with the youngin.  

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

Sapient's picture

The_Saint wrote: kellym78

The_Saint wrote:
kellym78 wrote:
You really are amazing--you claim to be so vastly superior, but you've never even read any of Plato's Socratic dialogues?


First of all, I never claimed to be "vastly superior" in any sense--can you point out where I've ever said such a thing? Second, I have read Plato, including his Apology, the defense of Socrates.

I have a feeling she was making a logical deduction.  One would logically expect based on your posts here that you don't consider yourself an idiot, or stupid, or unintelligent.   If our estimation is right, then by virtue of many of the statements you have made, you in fact consider yourself our intellectual superior.  She didn't quote the words vastly superior, you did.

Now here are some of the things you've said...

"Yes--it's called formal debate, and it usually takes place between two or more intelligent, civilized persons of differing viewpoints. It's the preferred academic format for the rational discussion of ideas. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you?"

 "Whether one agrees with them or not, at least Shermer, Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens are intelligent, civil, and reasonably respectful towards those of differing views, which is far more than anyone can say about you or Kelly."

"A tale told by an idiot: full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. You're so predictably transparent, Brian."

 "I merely state several points of fact: that formal debate usually takes place between intelligent, civilized persons, that it is the preferred academic format for the rational discussion of ideas, and that the fine folks at the RRS are incapable of participating in such a format, as they are neither intelligent, civilized, nor rational."

 

So one would presume either you argue hypocritically or you actually think you are our mental superiors, which for the record is very amusing.

 


Quote:
I said atheism has existed at least since Socrates.

Based on our knowledge of the world today, atheism should officially be deemed in existence the day the first person created a god concept, and there was someone on this Earth who didn't believe it. That would be well before Socrates walked the Earth. 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

Sapient's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: Please

Jacob Stein wrote:
Please keep reading my blog and writing about it.

You should know since you sound like you're starving for publicity, the piece ridiculing you will be featured in Kelly's book.  The book features refutation of people like yourself who are destructive to our planet, so kudos to you Jacob, you made it to the big time!

 

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

 I'm mad as hell and I'm

 I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore ....

The said Jesus character (an atheist) would today again condemn all religions of "god of abe". Xains etc need doctor jesus/buddha but most continue to reject his simple wisdom. Say these words jesus advised, "I am one with the father, ye and we are god(s). The kingdom of God/Heaven is now. Have no god before Me / I / WE . Worship no Idol." G-O-D = O-N-E, nothing is seperate. da da ....

Telling an innocent child the horror story of Jesus' needless torcher and agonizing brutal murder is HELL and child abuse. "The Passion of the Christ" movie makes the point clear; Xainity etc is a tragic embarrassment to humanity  which we must overcome.

"Jesus" would applaud RRS, atheism, the sciences, and the wisdom of buddhism. "God of abe" is a disgrace to the G-O-D message from the Jesus/Buddha. In the name of g-o-d , I AM riled with indignation. I AM Jesus/Buddha, as you ! We are one ... Jesus weeps, religion lies. Servents of the "god of abe" worship the Devil (wrong seperation thinking). Bad religion is HELL. Put Love on this enemy, and oh yes Love is also the LOUDEST of all.

This is great, Network - I'm Mad as Hell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08&feature=related

 

my blog

Sapient, I'm telling you, if my previous posts have made Kelly mad, then my future ones will make her eyes pop out and her hair stand on end.

Stay tuned please!

By the way, do you have some kind of radio program? Can I be on your show?

Sapient's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: Sapient,

Jacob Stein wrote:
Sapient, I'm telling you, if my previous posts have made Kelly mad, then my future ones will make her eyes pop out and her hair stand on end.

Great I look forward to the thrashing I'll take in the sack afterwards.  Sorry, can't help but toy with you. 

 

Quote:
Stay tuned please! By the way, do you have some kind of radio program?

Yes. 

Quote:
Can I be on your show?

We have no ability to patch calls through right now.  When we fix it, it'll be up to Kelly.  I'd say no, only because you're a dick and I don't suspect much more than ad homs, but if she is down for it, we'll make it happen.

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

I am not a bigot!!

I did find one good atheist.

Not true!

I am the least ad hom person there is.

And you are really teasing me too much about Kelly. But then again I'm a health nut, and I'm afraid she may have some "baggage", shall we say...

Anyway, let's stay focused.

  Wow this Jacob

  Wow this Jacob Stein, has a pac with the Devil. This fella needs some serious atheist jesus/buddha learning real bad. These folks can be oh so dangerous. The history of christianty ..... Yicks, Jesus would freak all over again. Cry

sorry Jacob if I've misread you, Heal brother, seems you are sicker than Saul/Paul.

To the The Saint, can you offer up some "big time famous atheist bashers" as she has requested? I think she has already took care of most of them, including the Pope, so now on to the small frys .....

Yeah Kelley ! 

?...."old with a cat", what's wrong with that you  asshole idiot ..... 

 

no one really loves me

why? I'm so sweet.

I just had a brainstorm

Why don't all of you rational atheists move to a country which is completely under the control of other absolutely rational people - North Korea. North Korea is probably the strongest bastion of atheism today. Don't tell me about Scandinavia - they have a state religion, Lutheranism, and celebrate all kinds of religious holidays. They are about as rational as I am. But look at North Korea - that's the real deal. Preach theism there and you'll be dead in about five minutes.

Take Richard Dawkins with you.

Just a thought.

CBX's picture

Your right sapient, this is

Your right sapient, this is a destructive death blow to  Christianity, as a matter of fact this may indeed be the end of Christianity as we know it. I can see the head lines: "CHRISTIANITY IS OVER! BURN YOUR BIBLES, SHUT DOWN YOUR CHURCHES, BELIEVE IN THE RRS! KELLY HAS SAVED US FROM THE BIGOTED, HOMO-PHOBIC, BABY LUVIN NAZISM OF CHRISTIANITY! YEAH KELLY!"  You've convinced me to reject the obvious order I see in the creation and the reality of changed lives that have put their faith in Jesus. Now, I can go sin all I want, thanks so much.

 Im sorry, but I agree with the saint, the hypocrisy is so visible here and not even worth responding to, considering the fact that I would be here days on end arguing back and forth trying to tear down the presuppositions you so adamantly hold to. I would say good try Kelly, but like you, I'm not obligated to respect your primitive and unscholarly views.

Vessel's picture

CBX wrote: Your right

CBX wrote:

Your right sapient, this is a destructive death blow to Christianity, as a matter of fact this may indeed be the end of Christianity as we know it. I can see the head lines: "CHRISTIANITY IS OVER! BURN YOUR BIBLES, SHUT DOWN YOUR CHURCHES, BELIEVE IN THE RRS! KELLY HAS SAVED US FROM THE BIGOTED, HOMO-PHOBIC, BABY LUVIN NAZISM OF CHRISTIANITY! YEAH KELLY!"

That's one of the most honest assessments of Christianity I've ever seen from a theist. And by the way, if you would actually read the blog from which the article is referenced you would see that the hate monger idiot who writes it is not fond of Christianity either.

Quote:
You've convinced me to reject the obvious order I see in the creation

Yeah, beautiful order in the stars that are going supernova once per second in the observable universe. Beautiful order in the 99% of all species which have gone extinct. Beatiful design in the AIDS virus.   

Quote:
and the reality of changed lives that have put their faith in Jesus.

Allah changes lives too. So does Vishnu. So does Buddha. So does Rael. So does Tom Cruise. Anything can change your life if you put your faith into it changing your life. After all it is simply the person who is doing the changing. The faith is a placebo. 

Quote:
Now, I can go sin all I want, thanks so much.

So you are one of those sociopaths who needs threat of eternal punishment to be a responsible member of society? 

Quote:
Im sorry, but I agree with the saint, the hypocrisy is so visible here and not even worth responding to,

Apparently it is worth responsding to. You are here and responding.  

Quote:
considering the fact that I would be here days on end arguing back and forth trying to tear down the presuppositions you so adamantly hold to.

Enlighten me. Let's put our presuppositions out on the table and see what we've actually got. 

Quote:
I would say good try Kelly, but like you, I'm not obligated to respect your primitive and unscholarly views.

Your post is devoid of substance. Perhaps you will return when you have something to offer to the discussion.  

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins

RaspK's picture

Not to mention that the

Not to mention that the bloody idiot has posted yet another post on his blog...

Of course he has the greatest argument by his side, sure he does, the Argument from Sheer Will: "I believe that atheists are sleazy scumbags; I do I do I do I do I do. Therefore, atheists are sleazy scumbags." Oh, and some of them are not, apparently - he pulled yet another Schindler there...

Dawkins and Godwin probably did not expect it, but he just gave rise to a new meme, the Schindler Rebutal: "In any discussion regarding morality, the probability of bringing up Schindler as an example of a good Nazi is closer to 1 the longer the discussion is."

Sapient's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: Why

Jacob Stein wrote:
Why don't all of you rational atheists move to a country which is completely under the control of other absolutely rational people - North Korea. North Korea is probably the strongest bastion of atheism today. Don't tell me about Scandinavia - they have a state religion,

Dumbass, North Korea has a religion: The government.

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

Not Matt's picture

It was said that

It was said that Stein  "[Conflated] Ayn Rand's objectivist philosophy, of which I am not a fan, with atheism before the actual article even [began]."

 That is rather amusing to me, as an Objectivist.  Usually, all atheists are universally represented as materialist, or Marxist.  Indeed, as you said, he pulled out the communism card later on.  I get a chuckle,  I suppose, by contemplating my disposition were I to be both capitalist and socialist at the same time, as Mr. Stein here might have us be.

 Can the general atheist not espouse an acquired rational epistemology, extrapolated from the scientific method; and not have a developed, explicit philosophy?  I say: yes, please.

Nice of you and your team

This comment has been moved here.

kellym78's picture

Chuck Tubecin wrote: In

Chuck Tubecin wrote:
In part one you typed; Fields accuses us of being "intellectually inept," but with his clear lack of knowledge, one can only assume that he must be looking at his own internal mirror. You often hear children use this argument in the familiar form, "I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.", or in the words of PeeWee Herman, "I know you are but what am I?".

Yeah, except for the fact that I actually demonstrated the gaps in his knowledge that were so obvious. I prefer to think of it as projection, rather than the juvenile epithet to which you related it. 

Quote:
You also typed; "coming from people who base their lives on compartmentalization and self-deception." while referring to religious believers, thats a little like the pot calling the kettle black when you follow it up with "It is up to you to present the evidence that proves the existence of your imaginary friend!". It sounds as though you are a little closed minded and self-deceiving also.

How am I compartmentalizing or self-deceiving by placing the burden of proof where it belongs--on the claimant?  

Quote:
If you are basing your lack of belief on science, the the appropriate scientific position would be to remain open minded and neutral until such a time that one position or the other is unequivically proven.

Untrue. The appropriate position is to suspend belief until evidence presents itself. The chances of anything, particularly the existence of the supernatural, being "unequivically proven" are very slim considering that science is continually making new discoveries and changing in response. It is an ongoing pursuit that doesn't rely on dogma and only relies on evidence. 

Quote:
After all, prior to 1930 science had proven there were only 8 planets in this solar system, but then oops, there are nine. Then in 2006 there were only 8 again, or is it 9 still? Scientists just simple can't agree whether or not that nineth bidy is a planet or a dwarf planet, that doesn't even count the other 4 planet sized objects that they have found recently. In 1403 according to science the Earth was flat, blood letting was the prefered treatment for most illness. Oh, and once upon a time science proved that the African people were more closely related to the Gorilla than to the white man.

All that proves is that science changes as new discoveries are made. Everything is based on the evidence currently available. We can't make predictions as to what will be found in the future. 

Quote:
Since science is primarily based on assumption (theories) it is a very poor "theology" to base a belief system (or lack there of) on. That being said, I am sure you have heard this before, but it is so true that it is worth repeating. To paraphrase the French mathematician Pascal: If I believe in a God is there is not one, What harm has been done? But, If I don't believe and there is one....

A theory is not an assumption. A scientific theory explains the facts, ie evidence, that we have.

Pascal's Wager is likely the weakest theist argument and the easiest to refute. What if believing in Yahweh pisses Allah off? It's not a 50/50 chance as you would like to present it. Thousands of other gods must be calculated into the odds, which makes your chances of hitting the right one statistically absurd. Nice try, but I'd suggest some independent study. 

kellym78's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: Hot

Jacob Stein wrote:
Hot video clip featuring underage dancing girls, to distract the atheist infidels. By the way, Rational Responders, are you sure you aren’t debauched libertines? Looking at your youtube page, I'm starting to wonder a little.

Wow...we knew you likely had issues with sex, but pedophilia? Come on man, that's just sick.

Oh, and if your definition of "debauched libertine", which oddly applies only to atheists and not the millions of perverted theists, means  "person who enjoys sex, enjoys life, and basically does whatever he/she wants as long as nobody is being hurt by it", then yes, I am a proud debauched libertine. :-D 

RaspK's picture

kellym78 wrote: Oh, and if

kellym78 wrote:
Oh, and if your definition of "debauched libertine", which oddly applies only to atheists and not the millions of perverted theists, means  "person who enjoys sex, enjoys life, and basically does whatever he/she wants as long as nobody is being hurt by it", then yes, I am a proud debauched libertine. :-D 

Well said! :D

P.S.: Maybe we should do what feminists do and invent a few special atheistic cuss words and blessings? It's annoying when the only words that come to mind are "four-letter words," "bloody," "happy," "love," and "peace." Sad

RaspK wrote: P.S.: Maybe

RaspK wrote:

P.S.: Maybe we should do what feminists do and invent a few special atheistic cuss words and blessings? It's annoying when the only words that come to mind are "four-letter words," "bloody," "happy," "love," and "peace." Sad

we've got "live long and prosper" too 

to conclude this thread

Just to conclude this thread on a positive note, I would like to say that it is perfectly obvious to any intelligent, rational person that the only reason anyone denies the existence of God is because he wants sex – promiscuous, irresponsible, unlimited sex without guilt. Atheists are a gang of sleazy scumbags.

I wish to state for the record: I am a proud, bitter and fanatic opponent of atheism.

Renee Obsidianwords's picture

Why are you ending this so

Why are you ending this so soon?

I think your passion is amazing. The way you cut right to the behavior that you despise the most, you don't hold back you just let it all out! 

I would love you to comment on this for me: I know a few christians that love promiscuous sex and unlimited sex...however they feel guilty after it. Are they better because the feel the guilt...or do they get a 'pass' because they hold onto their god belief?

Thanks

-Renee 

Slowly building a blog at ~

http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/

I understand now

An atheist who does something bad is not a real atheist.

Renee Obsidianwords's picture

I am cofused by your

I am cofused by your response...you mean a theist isn't a real theist if they do something bad?

I have had many a debate with these friends I mentioned and they 'feel the spirit' they 'pray' they are considered mentors within the church community...yet they watch porn, dress in a provacative way and have sex outside of marriage. They feel guilty for these things, pray for forgiveness and all is well. 

Do you have any articles/blogs regarding these types of believers?

-Renee 

Slowly building a blog at ~

http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/

my last comment was a reply to an earlier comment

No, I'm sorry, I was responding to this comment on the last page.

[Jacob Stein wrote:

Why don't all of you rational atheists move to a country which is completely under the control of other absolutely rational people - North Korea. North Korea is probably the strongest bastion of atheism today. Don't tell me about Scandinavia - they have a state religion,

Dumbass, North Korea has a religion: The government.]

I'm still learning how this website works. Bear with this dumbass shitforbrains fuckedup asshole. Please. I'm overwhelmed with all the geniuses I'm encountering here.

kellym78's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: Why

Jacob Stein wrote:
Why don't all of you rational atheists move to a country which is completely under the control of other absolutely rational people - North Korea. North Korea is probably the strongest bastion of atheism today. Don't tell me about Scandinavia - they have a state religion, Lutheranism, and celebrate all kinds of religious holidays. They are about as rational as I am. But look at North Korea - that's the real deal. Preach theism there and you'll be dead in about five minutes. Take Richard Dawkins with you. Just a thought.

 How about because atheism /= rational. North Korea is no more rational because there is no religion. That is only one area to which rationality should be applied. There are many more. Keep trying, though.

kellym78's picture

CBX wrote: Im sorry, but

CBX wrote:

Im sorry, but I agree with the saint, the hypocrisy is so visible here and not even worth responding to, considering the fact that I would be here days on end arguing back and forth trying to tear down the presuppositions you so adamantly hold to. I would say good try Kelly, but like you, I'm not obligated to respect your primitive and unscholarly views.

First statement = have nothing valid to say, but must try to discredit you

Second statement forward = projection 

Sapient's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: An

Jacob Stein wrote:
An atheist who does something bad is not a real atheist.

Do us a favor and have the balls to form real arguments so we can shred them.  I'll touch your response when it actually resembles our claim, makes sense, and is an actual objection or refutation.

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

kellym78's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: Just to

Jacob Stein wrote:
Just to conclude this thread on a positive note, I would like to say that it is perfectly obvious to any intelligent, rational person that the only reason anyone denies the existence of God is because he wants sex – promiscuous, irresponsible, unlimited sex without guilt. Atheists are a gang of sleazy scumbags. I wish to state for the record: I am a proud, bitter and fanatic opponent of atheism.

This has got to be even more idiotic than anything you wrote in your blog. If anybody is a sleazy scumbag, it's you with your moral high-horse and pompous douchebaggery parading around like some paragon of morality. If I made the statement, "Jews are a gang of sleazy scumbags," would it suddenly sound different to you? At least I don't just call names and offer no argumentation or justification.

We could already tell that you are a proud, bitter fanatic. It's people like you who motivate me to keep doing what I do, but it still kills me just a little bit to know that I am a part of the same species as you.

How's that for a positive note? 

kellym78's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: An

Jacob Stein wrote:
An atheist who does something bad is not a real atheist.

Nobody used that argument. That would have been like, "They aren't REAL atheists because they do bad things." AKA, No True Scotsman fallacy. I don't think that saying that the North Koreans worship Kim Jong Il is an overstatement, but you're too  deluded to see and/or admit that.

North Korea

"How about because atheism /= rational. "

How about because atheism /= crazy, exactly like every atheistic government in history.

And, no Sweden, the Netherlands, etc. are not atheistic governments. Exactly the opposite - they all sponsor churches and religious schools.

answering a previous query

I have had many a debate with these friends I mentioned and they 'feel the spirit' they 'pray' they are considered mentors within the church community...yet they watch porn, dress in a provacative way and have sex outside of marriage. They feel guilty for these things, pray for forgiveness and all is well.

Do you have any articles/blogs regarding these types of believers?

No I'm sorry, I don't think I do. I don't think in Orthodox Judaism we have that too much. We more have people behaving Orthodox but who are privately atheists; that happens and I write about that.

I don't get it

Cute + intelligent + angry = hot.

Ridiculous hot. 11. I'll be over here being a fan.

Sapient's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: They

Jacob Stein wrote:
They feel guilty for these things, pray for forgiveness and all is well. Do you have any articles/blogs regarding these types of believers? No I'm sorry, I don't think I do. I don't think in Orthodox Judaism we have that too much.

 

 

Rabbi Sentenced In Internet Sex Sting

A Maryland rabbi caught in a television sting operation was sentenced to 6 1/2 years in prison yesterday for trying to solicit sex from a 13-year-old boy over the Internet.

David A. Kaye, 56, told the judge that he traveled to Herndon for what he thought would be sex with a boy "as a cry out for help to fight my personal demons." Sobbing as he acknowledged his father, who sat in the courtroom in a wheelchair, Kaye said his conviction had made him face "the reality of who I am. . . . I know I need help. I pray that God allows me to get that help." 

Kaye's attorney, Peter D. Greenspun, said the rabbi, who was featured last year on the "To Catch a Predator" series on "Dateline NBC," kept his sexuality secret and spent thousands of hours chatting online in search of liaisons.

Kaye thought that he was chatting online with a young adult, Greenspun said. He said Kaye, who is divorced, is in therapy, and he urged a sentence on the low end of federal guidelines, which recommended a term of 63 to 78 months in prison.

- Brian Sapient


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Rabbi Kaye

A Maryland rabbi

Conservative not Orthodox.

You guys are so lame.

Mr Awesomestein

I love this Stein guy. How is atheism crazy, and how does that have anything to do with atheist governments? Is an individual analogous to a government in your personal philosophy? Would a theocracy be better? Are you qualified to diagnose mental disorders?

Is the problem with a lack of one specific god, or a lack of any gods?

Also, and maybe more importantly, are you high?

RaspK's picture

Jacob Stein wrote:And, no

Jacob Stein wrote:
And, no Sweden, the Netherlands, etc. are not atheistic governments. Exactly the opposite - they all sponsor churches and religious schools.
Both disestablished: Netherlands, 1795; Sweden, 2000.

Lame

I thought Orthodox Jews were the chosen people. If you're chosen already, why are you worried what a bunch of "crazy" empirical materialists think? I mean, why even make a point of it? You're so totally chosen.

The A1 first rate pets of God Himself. In all his Glory. You guys get different Undergarments to prove it. How are rationalists threatening to you at all?

Sapient's picture

Using your 10 yr old no

Using your 10 yr old no true scotsman argumentation... 

Jacob Stein wrote:
A Maryland rabbi Conservative not Orthodox. You guys are so lame.

 

He's clearly not even a real jew, nor a Rabbi.
 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

Jews

I said Orthodox Jews don't seem to have these "really spiritual but sexually out of control people" too much.

And, you non-sapien Sapient, bring a Conservative rabbi as a supposed contradition.

Let me ask everybody - is there a bigger moron anywhere on the web? Is he on drugs or what? Can someone at least teach this guy how to read?

Jacob Stein wrote:No I'm

Jacob Stein wrote:
No I'm sorry, I don't think I do. I don't think in Orthodox Judaism we have that too much. We more have people behaving Orthodox but who are privately atheists; that happens and I write about that.

What? You don't celebrate Yom Kippur and immerse yourself in a mikvah? I mean, it's just a preference in how one gets their absolution.

Granted, it doesn't sound as fun as the blood rituals you guys used to be up for all the time. But, hey, maybe you'll get the Temple rebuilt and get on with the blood sacrifices!

Oh, and as an Orthodox Jew, you have to believe that God directly gave the Torah, right? And you can't alter or reject it, right? So, if you catch a fellow Jew dude raping your daughter, are you going to make him pay you some silver, then force her to marry him? And if you are in a fight, and your wife tries to rescue you by grabbing your opponent's junk, are you going to have her hand cut off?

How far are you willing to go to follow the words of your god?

All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.

Sapient's picture

Currently #8  Currently

Currently #8 

Currently #5 

(and we're not even trying yet) 

 

Jacob Stein Aphilosopher wrote:

I said Orthodox Jews don't seem to have these "really spiritual but sexually out of control people" too much.

And, you non-sapien Sapient, bring a Conservative rabbi as a supposed contradition.

And then I mocked your retarded no true scotsman fallacy usage from several posts previous to which you walked right into.  Funny when the shoe is on the other foot you have no desire to admit to your errors.  That's fine I'm used to it from your type.

 

 

Quote:
Let me ask everybody - is there a bigger moron anywhere on the web?

It depends, were you looking in the mirror when you asked that?

 

Quote:
Is he on drugs or what?

Duh... I'm on crystal meth remember.  All of us are.  You told us yourself.

 

Quote:
Can someone at least teach this guy how to read?

I wish I could respond, but I have no idea what that says.

 

Jacob, do you realize that Kelly handed your ass to you and you haven't formed a single, not even an iota of an argument in an attempt to defend yourself from the ass kicking you took?  Do you realize that the entirety of your arguments have consisted of childish nonsense that make you look like you have no good means to return fire to Kelly?  Do you realize that you are one of several people that is currently the laughing stock of this community? 

And in case you're wondering this isn't the only place we congregate.  Last night you were the laughing stock of 250 random users on the homepage of Stickam.com when you were featured as the douchebag of the week.  And we've got private forums and chatrooms as well, where people have brought up how immature and ignorant you are.

Kudos Jacob, you're a disgrace to the human race, you got the publicity you deserve, the publicity to help others realize they should never act like you because if they do, intelligent people will stand up and shove your pompous childish arrogance back up your anus... if we could only get that pole out of the way.  Your family should be ashamed and embarrased to have you.  You are a disgustingly hypocritical and close minded arrogant asshole.  

We've taken a look at how you at least try good argumentation backed by facts/studies on your own blog.  We see how you responded here(completely different), and all of us in the know have happily accepted this difference that your actions here equate to denial of the fact that you had your arguments shredded. 

 Now if I could only figure out which button will make my post show up.  Is it the button that says  "post comment" or the one that says "Essay Contest" on the left?

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

Quote: it's you with your

Quote:
it's you with your moral high-horse

Moral hobby- horse more likely given his posts so far.

  Mary Magdalene, was

  Mary Magdalene, was pissed off too ....

When will it end , unnecessary suffering ? Cry 

Quote: the reality of

Quote:
the reality of changed lives that have put their faith in Jesus.

I hear this a lot but in reality it really doesn't change people. Not in the way it is meant, at least. For example, I've know several people who adopted one religion or another and got rid of drugs or alchohol problems, which was good, but all they really did was switch one addiction for another. All they changed was what their fix and who their pusher was. While they dropped what was damaging their lives, they also alienated themselves from what was already postive as well. Sure, they may have been changed but it wasn't exactly for the better. At best it was a lateral move.  

In other cases of people who became more religious, I've never really seen a change. They were still as they were before. The good people were still good and assholes were still assholes (they just felt they had better justification). The only real change I've seen from it is that I have known formerly good people degrade into bad ones or take on damaging behavior.

Ultimately, I agree that the adoption of religion, any religion, can incite change in a person just that it is not positive change. Even when the change is constructive it is accompanied by other differences that are detrimental.

Jacob Stein wrote: Why

Jacob Stein wrote:
Why don't all of you rational atheists move to a country which is completely under the control of other absolutely rational people - North Korea.

Atheism means not accepting a belief in gods. While this is a rationally justifiable position, it could also be arrived at for irrational reasons, or the position of an otherwise irrational person. If, after these millennia of religious gobbledegook, some kind of theism had suddenly gained mountains of evidence in support of it, it would be the rational position. It just so happens that's not the case, and the rationally justifiable position of the moment on the question of gods is not believing in them.

Jacob Stein wrote:
North Korea is probably the strongest bastion of atheism today.

They worship their damn dictators, you putz. Even the dead one.

Jacob Stein wrote:
Don't tell me about Scandinavia - they have a state religion, Lutheranism, and celebrate all kinds of religious holidays.

Church membership is automatic; this says nothing of individual piety.

Jacob Stein wrote:
They are about as rational as I am.

Are you saying you're as rational as a Swede, or a Swede is as irrational as you?

Jacob Stein wrote:
But look at North Korea - that's the real deal. Preach theism there and you'll be dead in about five minutes. Take Richard Dawkins with you. Just a thought.

Sure, why not repeat the argument. Maybe it'll eventually sound convincing.

Jacob Stein wrote: Just to

Jacob Stein wrote:
Just to conclude this thread on a positive note, I would like to say that it is perfectly obvious to any intelligent, rational person that the only reason anyone denies the existence of God is because he wants sex – promiscuous, irresponsible, unlimited sex without guilt. Atheists are a gang of sleazy scumbags. I wish to state for the record: I am a proud, bitter and fanatic opponent of atheism.

First of all, I want statistics to back that up. I don't care whether it's to back up actual behavior, or to back up that motive.

Second, most Christians simply believe they can be forgiven. Let's say you have a group of people divided in half between atheists and Christians. The irresponsible among the atheists act irresponsibly, and may feel a certain way and adjust their behavior, or not. The irresponsible among the Christians act irresponsibly, repent, feel refreshed, and act irresponsibly again. Or they feel bad and adjust.

KSMB's picture

Jacob Stein wrote: Don't

Jacob Stein wrote:
Don't tell me about Scandinavia - they have a state religion, Lutheranism, and celebrate all kinds of religious holidays. They are about as rational as I am.

Stop insulting scandinavians by comparing us in any way, shape or form to yourself. Seriously, what did we ever do to deserve such a vile attack? Even scandinavian religious nutcases laugh at your attempts to mimic rationality.

To clear things up: In

To clear things up: In Denmark, we have a state religion, which is lutheran. If your child is not baptized, it will not be a member of the church (though you still pay for conservation & some salaries via taxes)

Even though about 85% of the population is a member, you'd be hard pressed to find people who acutally believe. I should know: I sang in a church for five years running. Apart from supportive parents, there was but a handful of people attending. And this was in the cathedral in downtown Copenhagen. On Sundays. you know, that one mass everybody who observes Xtianity actually have no excuse not to attend.

As for the Xtian holidays, yes, we celebrate those. But we also made up our own, becuz some king or other was tired of all the many little holy days coming up thru the spring-all slapped together in one. Besides, any holidays is usually an excuse for debauchery of the atheist kind. Or just enjoying a few days of.

BTW Do you, Jacob, know why we have those days off? The unions. Yup, the communist atheist unions made sure that we observe many Xtian holidays. I suppose it was just easier to put our national holidays, where the xtians did. Sort of how Xtians co-opted Xmas from the heathens in northern europe.

And lastly, Jacob Stein, you have nothing to do with rationality. If you were a rational person, you would not defame people in general and the owners of this site in particular when you run out of arguments. And you'd not have an imaginary friend named god.